Another CE-2 Clone???

[jfromel]

I wanted to see if there would be any interest in another CE-2 clone? I just finished modding my CE-2, didn't change any component values (with minor exceptions), just put in really high quality film/mica/and EL caps, replaced the LFO op-amp with a TL062 and the signal op-amp with a OPA-2134, and alpha pots becuase I like it smooth.

The changes took away all the things I didn't like about the chorus and kept all the things I have always loved about this pedal. The circuit would basically be the same with some small exceptions. I would change the power supply to take 12v out of a 9v adaptor so any boss style adaptor or 9v battery would work.

It would be mono-in, mono-out, true bypass

I think I could get the cost to about $160-$180.

If there was enough interest I would do a run of them.

[Shredcow]

I'll be interested... Keep me posted?

[Rob Sharer]

You might want to add a gain trim pot, so the player could decide whether or not to have the volume boost you get when you switch on the original. Cheers,

Rob

[jfromel]

It will be unity gain, that is one of the things I did not like about the CE-2. I don't think the boost was part of the original design, with the cheap caps and cheap op-amps there is a lot of noise added and the highs are boosted. I am picking up a couple more CE-2's so I can strip them down and design the power rails. If anyone has a CE-2 that your are not in love with I would buy it, or let me use it for a while and I will send it back to you after the mods are done.

[Sofus]

I am interested.

[TooManyHobbies]

I'd really like to see one that operates at 18v for maximum headroom for those of us who use gain or hot pickups. And a high speed switch for those leslie tones ala the other mods. If it could be a 9v stepup internal it would be great. Oh, that and an MXR sized box. If so, count me in.

[jfromel]

I might take it up to 12v, you don't need 18v to get great headroom, my Seraph runs at 9v and has huge headroom. Might add a speed switch. The smallest box I am using these days is a 1290NS, it's slightly larger than the MXR but I can put all the jacks including power on the top of the peal.

I already have my Taiwan model here sounding way better than a 1980 silver screw model I have for reference, now I want to see how hot I can run it before it screams STOP? then refine all the power rails for maximum headroom and minimal noise. Then I will have a good starting point.

I am not going to start earnestly on this project until at least spring of next year, this project is in R&D phase right now. I have to get my other designs out first including the stereo in/out Seraph (formerly Lush), and get my web site finished.
I want to thank Paul C for the suggestion to try out some new rail to rail op-amps that can run pretty hot. TL2272 for the audio and TL2262 for the LFO.

[sparkle**]

I am in...

I wanted to see if there would be any interest in another CE-2 clone? I just finished modding my CE-2, didn't change any component values (with minor exceptions), just put in really high quality film/mica/and EL caps, replaced the LFO op-amp with a TL062 and the signal op-amp with a OPA-2134, and alpha pots becuase I like it smooth.

The changes took away all the things I didn't like about the chorus and kept all the things I have always loved about this pedal. The circuit would basically be the same with some small exceptions. I would change the power supply to take 12v out of a 9v adaptor so any boss style adaptor or 9v battery would work.

It would be mono-in, mono-out, true bypass

I think I could get the cost to about $160-$180.

If there was enough interest I would do a run of them.

[michael patrick]

Personally, I'd like it to run at 9 volts so I can power it with my PPII like the rest of my pedals. That and true bypass would make it a winner in my book...

[TooManyHobbies]

I might take it up to 12v, you don't need 18v to get great headroom, my Seraph runs at 9v and has huge headroom. Might add a speed switch. The smallest box I am using these days is a 1290NS, it's slightly larger than the MXR but I can put all the jacks including power on the top of the peal.

I already have my Taiwan model here sounding way better than a 1980 silver screw model I have for reference, now I want to see how hot I can run it before it screams STOP? then refine all the power rails for maximum headroom and minimal noise. Then I will have a good starting point.

I am not going to start earnestly on this project until at least spring of next year, this project is in R&D phase right now. I have to get my other designs out first including the stereo in/out Seraph (formerly Lush), and get my web site finished.
I want to thank Paul C for the suggestion to try out some new rail to rail op-amps that can run pretty hot. TL2272 for the audio and TL2262 for the LFO.

Sounds good... if it can run off a single port on a PP2, either the 9 or 12.3.. that's great. I just found that I liked my analogman chorus best on about 16v.

MXR'ish size is perfect..especially with top mount jacks all around! (Wow, you've thought of everything!)

Speed switches are great, if you think that it sounds good in that mode... but depth switches are also nice!

Too bad we have to wait until spring.. it think that my chorus spot may stay empty until then...:bow

[jfromel]

Too bad we have to wait until spring.. it think that my chorus spot may stay empty until then...:bow

You can always pick up a Seraph if you are in need of a chorus. Like the Seraph and Death is Gain, this project came as result of having a love/hate relationship with an effect that has a great circuit that was not implemented as well as it could be. I also want to be able to offer a great chorus at a more affordable price for players. Almost $300 for a chorus is a lot of $$ for most musicians.

The CE-2 will never sound as warm or Lush as the Seraph, but the clone will sound fantastic non the less.

[TooManyHobbies]

You can always pick up a Seraph if you are in need of a chorus. Like the Seraph and Death is Gain, this project came as result of having a love/hate relationship with an effect that has a great circuit that was not implemented as well as it could be. I also want to be able to offer a great chorus at a more affordable price for players. Almost $300 for a chorus is a lot of $$ for most musicians.

The CE-2 will never sound as warm or Lush as the Seraph, but the clone will sound fantastic non the less.

I'll check it out then!

Thanks.

[thiscalltoarms]

I love my CE2. If you could figure out a way to implement a depth control that would be big pimping. :) good luck. i'm excited to see how this one ends up.

[jfromel]

I love my CE2. If you could figure out a way to implement a depth control that would be big pimping. :) good luck. i'm excited to see how this one ends up.

Do you want a depth control that goes deeper than it does now?

[Shredcow]

I ran my CE-2 on 12v before... it can be done... but there was increased clock noise. That said, the tone was more 3D, way bigger sounding and just more lush. However, the old CE-2 tone was gone... and I kinda missed that, so I went back to 9v.

[TooManyHobbies]

I ran my CE-2 on 12v before... it can be done... but there was increased clock noise. That said, the tone was more 3D, way bigger sounding and just more lush. However, the old CE-2 tone was gone... and I kinda missed that, so I went back to 9v.

The CE-2's were made to be run on 12.3.

[Rob Sharer]

The CE-2's were made to be run on 12.3.


Exactamundo. The CE-2 is intended for use with the Boss ACA power supply, which is 12v. It will run on 9v, but won't be as happy. Cheers,

Rob

[jfromel]

The power rails on the CE-2 are pretty wierd, there is a trimpot for the virtual ground. The CE-2 doesn't use any companders (like in the DC-2, DM-2 etc) in the circuit which is what gives it the raw tone but does make it noisier. I want to run the op-amps pretty hot then dial in the voltage on the BBD's and Clocks for maximum headroom and minimal noise. I am also going to try running it with with MN3207's they are the low voltage version of the MN3007. The MN3207's have less distortion but more noise than the MN3007's. The noise floor on the MN3207's is really really low.

I think most of the noise that people associate with BBD's especially the low voltage versions is actually coming from the cheap OP-AMP's that Boss and Ibanez used. I have had pretty great results with the 3207's in my Seraph chorus.

[jfromel]

CE-2's are not designed to run on 12V, even though the ACA adaptor delivers 12V. The ACA adaptor is 12 volts unregulated and there is a diode resistor circuit in all ACA pedals that regulates it to 9.6 v. The same as a new 9v battery. Use a PSA adaptor and the voltage drops to 6.2 or something close to that, not enough to power the pedal. Actually I think it might be enough to power the pedal but not enough juice to flip the bypass circuit over to the effect.

You can run ACA pedals on a PSA adaptor if the power is daisy chained with other PSA pedals, the ground at input bypasses the diode resistor circuit. You can also remove the diode and resistor, jump them and run you pedal on a PSA-120T which is regulated. I have been running my DM-2 this way for years. I keep the diode and resistor taped to the inside on the snowballs chance in Hell that I will ever sell it, I could put them back if the new owner wanted.

[TooManyHobbies]

CE-2's are not designed to run on 12V, even though the ACA adaptor delivers 12V. The ACA adaptor is 12 volts unregulated and there is a diode resistor circuit in all ACA pedals that regulates it to 9.6 v. The same as a new 9v battery. Use a PSA adaptor and the voltage drops to 6.2 or something close to that, not enough to power the pedal. Actually I think it might be enough to power the pedal but not enough juice to flip the bypass circuit over to the effect.

You can run ACA pedals on a PSA adaptor if the power is daisy chained with other PSA pedals, the ground at input bypasses the diode resistor circuit. You can also remove the diode and resistor, jump them and run you pedal on a PSA-120T which is regulated. I have been running my DM-2 this way for years. I keep the diode and resistor taped to the inside on the snowballs chance in Hell that I will ever sell it, I could put them back if the new owner wanted.

Wow.. great information to know. Thanks for explaining how this works.

I'm sure that with Gilmour using a CE-2 on his board, the new clone will surely be something that is desired widely with all your improvements.

[Csgband]

I would be interested for sure.
Chris

[jerrydyer]

im in if its as close to a CE2 as humanly possible

[jfromel]

Schematically it will be as close as humanly possible. Other than it will be true bypass and I may expand the depth a little (and I mean very little) but that is it. I will be using very high quality components so the thin brassy metallic tone will be gone, it will sound different because more of the original tone in your signal will be retained and more of the instruments tone will be retained through the delay line as well.

I suspect that the initial response if doing an A/B will be similar to that of the Seraph (Formerly Lush) when compared to the DC-2. A few people with the Seraph/Lush thought the effect to be slightly more subtle, less in the mix if you will. Actually the mix is the same but the tone suckage from the original makes it seem like it's more in the mix than my Seraph. Mostly the DC-2's that were replaced with the Seraph are collecting dust now.

So far in my comparisons with my modded CE-2 and an original is that the modded one still sounds like my guitar and the stock one sounds like a noise from Space Invaders. So I can see why some say that it's less in the mix.

The oldest CE-2 sounds the best because they used caps that are the equivalant to greenies. The Taiwan version is pretty hidious in comparison, The green lable MIJ one falls inbetween the two. My modded taiwan version sounds better than the really old CE-2 after I swapped out the op-amp's and put in mica's instead of ceramic caps.

If I wanted to make a CE-2 that was as close as humanly possible I would need to find the cheapest film caps available, use 5% carbon 1/8 w resistors, and op-amps that I wouldn't use in a distortion box. The 4558 is NOT a good sounding op-amp, unless thin brassy tone suckage is what you are after.

The reason why I started doing these clones is becuase I heard what the effect could sound like if it was built with really good parts. Most of the other builders out there are adding options and features to the circuit which I think is great, but not my bag. I look at the circuit and see so many things that can be done with just a tweek here or there. in the end I have decided to build the kind of effects that I like to use and I don't like options, I don't like switches for clipping this or that or cutting, boosting, shaping, expanding or whatever.

I appreciate the suggestions on what options people would like to see and most of the things people suggest can be done pretty easily but I would rather do options as a custom order and leave the production model really, really simple.

This project will have a button and a rate and depth control. Mono in/out, a 9v tap and a battery snap.

[Csgband]

I am all for keeping it simple, I know at a gig I just want to set it and forget it.
Chris

[RC2]

I'm in.

[Sofus]

Can't wait :) - keep me posted please!

[Rick Towne]

As the Retro-Sonic Delay is an updated DM-2, how would a new CE-2 be different than the Retro-Sonic Chorus, which I understand is an updated CE-1?

Aside from speed and depth, a useful additional control would be a mix or level for lighter or more subtle settings.

[jfromel]

The CE-2 and CE-1 are different circuits, and they sound totally different as well. There is no current way of cloning a CE-1 to the original schematic as far as I know, but all the reviews say the Retro-sonic has the tone nailed. The CE-1 used a MN3002 512 single stage BBD, and they are nearly impossible to find. I have never had a retro-sonic so I don't know what chip they are using. Anyhow the CE-1 and CE-2 are not the same pedal.

The CE-2B bass chorus and the CE-2 are exactly the same pedal except that the CE-2B has a mix control so I may give the option.

[A440]

would love to see a mix control or maybe even a tone knob

[jfromel]

would love to see a mix control or maybe even a tone knob, I think I am going to have a mix control but no tone control - that's what the SCH-1 is for.