Jimi Hendrix Rhythm Style

[Litsa]

Hi Guys and Gals,

I am not sure if this subject has been discussed, but...

Okay, I know how to play Little Wing (Intro and my Ex-Teacher) even wrote out a chord melody line for the verse and chorus. Learned how to play the Jimi type chords with the thumb over the bass line, etc. I know triad shapes, spellings and basic major scales, pent, minor pent, etc.


Now my questions is I can't for the life of me take what I've learned on Little Wing and also Lenny (SRV) to create my own song..

Is there a theory in which Hendrix based his style on or was his style based on chords with pent type licks in between?

I am kind of into theory and stuff and would like to really understand how he created those lines. I've tried of this type of chord progression I am using for a song: Aminor, Fmajor, Cmajor,Verse, Chorus G, Am, F.

For this would I use chord tones or pent. scales...I hope this all made sense and maybe someone out there can shed some light on Jimi's R&B style.

P.S. I've done some research on youtube and basiclally there are lessons out there who just show you how to play with the thumb over chord and basically how to play a Hendrix tune.

Thanks, Litsa

[xntrick]

i actually found a lesson from rik emmett on this very topic..it was interesting to say the least but i don't have much time these days...

[Litsa]

Thanks for the reply! I'll try and google in Rik Emmett stuff. I guess I really want to learn how to creat melodic playing like Jimi with chords.

There has to be a theory to it...Does one use thirds, etc.

[derekd]

It seems to me Tom Kolb put out a nice lesson in the now defunct Guitar One on this topic a few years ago. Dunno if truefire has it or not.

[Litsa]

Thanks, I'll google Tom Kolb and see what happens...I wonder if there is any books that can help me understand the concept...

[Clifford-D]

Hi Guys and Gals,

I am not sure if this subject has been discussed, but...

Okay, I know how to play Little Wing (Intro and my Ex-Teacher) even wrote out a chord melody line for the verse and chorus. Learned how to play the Jimi type chords with the thumb over the bass line, etc. I know triad shapes, spellings and basic major scales, pent, minor pent, etc.


Now my questions is I can't for the life of me take what I've learned on Little Wing and also Lenny (SRV) to create my own song..

Is there a theory in which Hendrix based his style on or was his style based on chords with pent type licks in between?

I am kind of into theory and stuff and would like to really understand how he created those lines. I've tried of this type of chord progression I am using for a song: Aminor, Fmajor, Cmajor,Verse, Chorus G, Am, F.

For this would I use chord tones or pent. scales...I hope this all made sense and maybe someone out there can shed some light on Jimi's R&B style.

P.S. I've done some research on youtube and basiclally there are lessons out there who just show you how to play with the thumb over chord and basically how to play a Hendrix tune.

Thanks, Litsa
It's possible that when you learned that stuff you didn't learn the theory, or how it FUNCTIONS with the underlying chord changes.

Do you know how to spell chords and what functional harmony is?
If you did, the application of these Jimi ideas in different arenas would be a snap.

Everything you would ever need to know is here at TGP, just do a search or ask. :)

[jammybastard]

Is there a theory in which Hendrix based his style on or was his style based on chords with pent type licks in between?



Jimi wasn't a musician as much as he was a painter who used sound as his colors and the audience as his canvas.
Hendrix wasn't about theory, he was about feel.
He didn't study scales, he just played and played and played some more.
He wasn't about "book" knowledge, he was about "gig" knowledge and he based his style on the hundreds of songs he played while he was a backing musician as well as the sounds he heard in the modern pop of the time.
Plus he listened to the sounds in his head and worked hard to recreate them.

He told Roger Mayer he wanted his guitar to sound like a spaceship taking off and that's how he got to the mind blowing sounds you hear on "Are You Experienced?"
You'll never read that in a music theory book.

He also seemed to live without fear of failure and played from his emotional center. you watch film of him and you can see him experiencing every note like he's taking a breath.

You need to find that on your own, the center where emotion and sound meet and get translated by your fingers on the fretboard.
That's where both Hendrix, and SRV lived and it's not an easy place to find.

[Litsa]

Do you know how to spell chords and what functional harmony is?
If you did, the application of these Jimi ideas in different arenas would be a snap.

Hi Clifford D,

I do know how to spell chords, what I don't know is what you just stated, but I don't know what functional harmony is. Maybe you can explain and you're right i learnt the song without the theory part...or rather my X teacher never bothered to show me.

Jammybastard, I am not Jimi Hendrix or SRV, just because they didn't that way doesn't work for everyone. I have feel when I play! I just like to know what I am doing...I do think it helps to know so when one does get sound they CAN put it onto fretboard...I do appreciate what you're saying though as I've read everything about Jimi and SRV. Oh, and I remember reading or seeing an interview with George Lynch and he found out that Jimi did know theory. He made this statement on Dave Navarro's internet show. Who knows, though...

[dkaplowitz]

Do you have the song written and you want to embellish it, or are you trying to write with the embellished guitar style? I'd recommend writing the song first, then embellish the chordal playing with the characteristic stuff. I mean, at core, the Little Wing intro is just a simple chord progression that has a lot of embellishment. So write the simple progression(s) first.

[Litsa]

dkaplowitz,

Well, actually I want to learn how to write stuff in chordal embellishment the way Hendrix did.

For instance if I've come up with a chord progress like

Am, F, C, G, Am, F, etc. I know how to spell chord and I do know triads, etc.

[shane88]

Jimi wasn't a musician as much as he was a painter who used sound as his colors and the audience as his canvas.
Hendrix wasn't about theory, he was about feel.
He didn't study scales, he just played and played and played some more.
He wasn't about "book" knowledge, he was about "gig" knowledge and he based his style on the hundreds of songs he played while he was a backing musician as well as the sounds he heard in the modern pop of the time.
Plus he listened to the sounds in his head and worked hard to recreate them.

He told Roger Mayer he wanted his guitar to sound like a spaceship taking off and that's how he got to the mind blowing sounds you hear on "Are You Experienced?"
You'll never read that in a music theory book.

He also seemed to live without fear of failure and played from his emotional center. you watch film of him and you can see him experiencing every note like he's taking a breath.

You need to find that on your own, the center where emotion and sound meet and get translated by your fingers on the fretboard.
That's where both Hendrix, and SRV lived and it's not an easy place to find.
v cool post

[Litsa]

Cool Post, but NOT everyone is Jimi or SRV

[eBay]

Is there a theory in which Hendrix based his style on or was his style based on chords with pent type licks in between?

Yes. Jimi is a chordal player. This means that for the most part, he doesn't stay modal. Instead, he just plays the major pentatonic for whatever chord he's hanging on at the moment.

Use minor sparingly on the ballads; however, on the more pure blues ideas, minor pentatonic is good. Use the 3-2-3-2-3 pattern a lot also and wire all 5 pentatonic positions. The 2nd inversion of the chords on the 5th string is a lot of it. Also, he loved the minor 7 #9 chord and seemed to drop it in everywhere (Aint No Tellin', Purple Haze, Foxy Lady, etc).

His shtick is also about lots of embellishment and you'll want to throw in the sus 4's and other little noodley ideas around every chord. But basically, you're outlining the chord every chance you get.

Combine that with some really good licks and riffs that you'll find listening to Freddie, Albert, and BB (the three Kings) and you're on your way.

Get Andy Aledort's Axis DVD and learn every song (It'll only take about six months) and you'll start sounding a lot like him.

At that point, your ideas will take on a decidely Hendrixy flavor especially if you're kind of ADD and constantly need to be in motion.

[lagomorphian]

Also listen to Curtis Mayfield ... Jimi did.

[jammybastard]

one more thing...learn to wrap your thumb over the top of the neck to play the bass notes.
That's a key part to his technique.

[jammybastard]

Cool Post, but NOT everyone is Jimi or SRV

yup, and I think that's because most people treat playing guitar as an exercise in achieving a level of precision instead of focusing on the expression of their own emotion.
I know that might be a bit too "new age" for some folks to grasp, but if you have studied both Jimi and SRV you'll find that they didn't have amazing technique
but they did have a ton of passion and put it into their playing.

IMHO the best are more concerned with connecting with and expressing their feelings through playing than what scales or modes they are navigating their way through while they play.

[buddastrat]

Jammy, you act like the two are mutually exclusive. Well they aren't. Knowledge is good and you can use it to take in new directions and all the while still playing with feel. I'd say Hendrix knew a little bit of theory for the day. Theory to some people could simply be knowing the names of basic chords.


For the OP, I'd say to start with the CAGED system and know any given Major chord full on up the neck in all it's positions, and know the inversions, fragments, and all that type of stuff. Do the same with minors too. Learn the Major scales and the pentatonics to organize the whole board. This will give you a map of what you can do and where you can go with your chord progressions.

Take Little Wing or whatever Hendrix stuff you've worked on and reverse engineer it. Learn the underlying progression and what he was doing and see how it fits. That's the best way to learn. Your your own best teacher.

[blhm84]

What good is "feeling what you are doing" if you have no idea how to go about it. I'm sick of these people that think that since the guitar heroes of the sixties didn't talk about studying theory all the time that its some kind of sin to actually want to know what's going on.

I hate to break it to some people, but I guarantee that SRV and Hendrix knew what they were doing, and most likely practiced scales like the rest of us, they are just better than we are at applying it.

Of course players that connect with and feel with what they are playing play better, but that doesn't mean you to have be ignorant about what is going on out of some kind of feeling of being cool by not knowing music theory.

[pickaguitar]

What good is "feeling what you are doing" if you have no idea how to go about it. I'm sick of these people that think that since the guitar heroes of the sixties didn't talk about studying theory all the time that its some kind of sin to actually want to know what's going on.

I hate to break it to some people, but I guarantee that SRV and Hendrix knew what they were doing, and most likely practiced scales like the rest of us, they are just better than we are at applying it.

Of course players that connect with and feel with what they are playing play better, but that doesn't mean you to have be ignorant about what is going on out of some kind of feeling of being cool by not knowing music theory.
On one of my SRV 'the collection' cd's Stevie says he does not know music theory and thus only plays from the heart. He says the moment he trys to think it out is the moment that it goes wrong.

[bc-cosmo]

His shtick is also about lots of embellishment and you'll want to throw in the sus 4's and other little noodley ideas around every chord. But basically, you're outlining the chord every chance you get.

:agree

Lots of truth on both sides of the heart vs mind argument. Ideally we'd always use both!;)

But from a technique and approach perspective, I think the above is the nut of it all. That style (one I love and use a lot myself) is all about really working the chords, especially 2-note partial chords, in a funky rhythmic style. So set up a groove, go through your own changes and make them snap with little fragments of chord melody. Relax and have fun with it...

Andy's lessons are great, and definitely listen to Curtis Mayfield too!

[Litsa]

blhm84 Reply: What good is "feeling what you are doing" if you have no idea how to go about it. I'm sick of these people that think that since the guitar heroes of the sixties didn't talk about studying theory all the time that its some kind of sin to actually want to know what's going on.

Well, said blhm84, the reason why I asked what type of theory was behind Jimi rhythm playing is because it's the way I learn best. I don't think Jimi just created melody type lines by accident without know what he was doing. Maybe he wasn't a jazz scholar, but he knew what he was doing to create those lines. Yeah, I know he said that he didn't know notes and related the notes as colors, but he was ALSO high alot of times as well.

[quote][On one of my SRV 'the collection' cd's Stevie says he does not know music theory and thus only plays from the heart. He says the moment he trys to think it out is the moment that it goes wrong. /QUOTE]

I am sorry if this sounds arogant I DON'T CARE what these dudes say or do, I just follow my own path and the way I learn is different from Jimi or SRV.

I know guitar players who know their theory and it doesn't hinder they're creativity it just enhances it. I am one that will tell you that learning chord build up and even learning the triads and spellings has at least helped my improvising skill.

I do APPRECIATE ALL RESPONSES and tonight I realized something while playing Little Wing/Intro and the whole song Chord melody style the way my former teacher wrote it and that is I was just playing it without studying what was really going on. I do have a better undertanding that a lot is just coming of triads in chunks with pentatonic licks in between.

Thanks again to all of you, Litsa

[Jazzydave]

Play what's in your head...that's what Hendrix did.

[Litsa]

Jazzydave Reply: Play what's in your head...that's what Hendrix did.

Okay, thanks, for your reply.

[Jazzydave]

I'm not trying to be a smart*ss or anything but I've read a lot about Hendrix, and as much as people try to figure out the formula, there wasn't one.

Just get your fingers flowing with ideas...

[rich2k4]

I'm not trying to be a smart*ss or anything but I've read a lot about Hendrix, and as much as people try to figure out the formula, there wasn't one.

Just get your fingers flowing with ideas...

there actually is. whether or not hendrix knew it or not, i don't know.

but what he was doing can be explained theory wise, and some people prefer to learn that way.

so "play what's in your head" is not a valid answer.

[Jazzydave]

Well, good luck being Hendrix! Some people learn by inspiration...others by books and theory. Some by both I guess.

I'll just keep my opinions to myself from now on...good luck figuring out the "formula" for genius.
:dunno

[TwoTubMan]

Also listen to Curtis Mayfield ... Jimi did.

And both Jimi and Curtis listened to Pops Staples.

[jads57]

You need to listen the music and players which influenced Hendrix and his playing. Already mentioned Curtis Mayfeild, & Pop Staples (BlackGospel or church) But also Cornell Dupree from King Curtiss & the Kingpins,songwriters such as Bob Dylan, The guy who wrote Hey Joe, The Troggs(Wild Thing), probably Bach(off of Electric Ladyland 1983). Jazz concepts such as Tritone Root and Flat 5 ( Purple Haze, 6/8 swing rhythm concept ( Manic Depression, Jazz Organ/guitar trios (Up from the skies, also check out Lucky Petersons version on Youtube of this song)That`s a very wide variety of music, which isn`t quite happening on the radio these days.

[Litsa]

JazxyDave reply: Well, good luck being Hendrix! Some people learn by inspiration...others by books and theory. Some by both I guess.
I'll just keep my opinions to myself from now on...good luck figuring out the "formula" for genius.

Hey JazzyDave, know worries and need to keep your opinions to yourself! I appreciate EVERYONE's opinions and help.

P.S. I checked out your myspace and really enjoyed your playying!!

Thanks to everyone and I'll as suggested I'll listen to lots of Jimi's influence. I know Curtis Mayfield was one a big source of inspirations.

Thanks again, Litsa

[Jazzydave]

Well thanks brother...I just try to come from the other side of the technical world. I got caught up in that whole scene a long time ago and I kind of lost my vibe bc of it. Thank God I got it back!

Thanks for diggin' the music!!! That means the world to me!

[buddastrat]

I think guys like SRV or Hendrix or EVH or whoever who claim to not know theory are BS'ing. Everyone may have their own idea on where to draw the line on theory. It's funny how the majority of their solos all used the same pentatonic scale that we all use. And it also happens to be the same pattern. They might not know it by name, but they still used it and knew it. Maybe they called it a box pattern or called it a ____, or didn't call it anything, but they still used it the same way everyone else did. So they knew some theory right there.

It's funny how you can see them all playing standard chords. They even tuned the same way, standard tuning and usually half step down. All part of real basic beginner stuff, but guitar oriented theory nonetheless. Whether they stumbled on it by ear or a friend showed them it, or they read it in a book, they got to the same place.

It doesn't matter if you say this is an E chord, or this is an altered super duper locrydian scale, it's still part of theory.

If someone truly did say screw the theory, they'd tune their own way, finger their own chords, have their own harmony etc, they wouldn't follow I IV V etc..

[Yngtchie]

Jimi wasn't a musician as much as he was a painter who used sound as his colors and the audience as his canvas.
Hendrix wasn't about theory, he was about feel.
He didn't study scales, he just played and played and played some more.
He wasn't about "book" knowledge, he was about "gig" knowledge and he based his style on the hundreds of songs he played while he was a backing musician as well as the sounds he heard in the modern pop of the time.
Plus he listened to the sounds in his head and worked hard to recreate them.

He told Roger Mayer he wanted his guitar to sound like a spaceship taking off and that's how he got to the mind blowing sounds you hear on "Are You Experienced?"
You'll never read that in a music theory book.

He also seemed to live without fear of failure and played from his emotional center. you watch film of him and you can see him experiencing every note like he's taking a breath.

You need to find that on your own, the center where emotion and sound meet and get translated by your fingers on the fretboard.
That's where both Hendrix, and SRV lived and it's not an easy place to find.How is this post in any way helpful for people who want to learn Hendrix-style rhythm playing?

[jammybastard]

How is this post in any way helpful for people who want to learn Hendrix-style rhythm playing?

It has everything to do with it. You either get it or you don't. Like the man himself said....

"Blues is easy to play, but hard to feel."
Jimi Hendrix (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/j/jimihendri195403.html)

[buddastrat]

How is this post in any way helpful for people who want to learn Hendrix-style rhythm playing?


It's not.

[Yngtchie]

It's not.Indeed. I would never trust a teacher who tried to bullshit his way out of a lesson like that, just because he didn't know how to teach.

I have a Guitar Techniques issue with several examples of Hendrix's rhythm playing. It's from April 2007, if anyone's interested. That, combined with a good knowledge of chords and Jimi's music, should do the trick. A good guitar teacher would be even better, if there are any where you live.

[blhm84]

These "feeling it, dont learn it" posts don't do anything to help. Its from peopel that try and rationalize their lack of knowledge about what they are doing by pointing to past greats and saying, look they didn't know what they were doing either.

But they did, and more likely than not if they said they feel their way through it its because they practiced so much that they didn't need to think about it, it becomes instinct. They didn't just pick up an instrument and feel their way through it. They learned the chords and scales, and played along to records relentlessly.

And thats the point, to practice the theory and scales and stuff so much that it becomes instinct and feeling. I know this is a stupid argument, and I shouldn't continue it, but people that talk this way make me so mad.

You're playing music. God forbid you should know how the music actually works to make it sound better. Stop pointing to SRV and Hendrix and say don't analyze, feel your way through it. How do you feel your way through something you know nothing about or haven't learned? Idiocy.

[blhm84]

And not to beat a dead horse, but I used to think the same thing, that I could go along without really learning what was going on and just learn shapes and apply them.

Then I realized how limiting all of that was, and I started analyzing and studying other rock players, and jazz players etc. I don't think I've lost any feeling, I've just expanded my harmonic horizon. People think by doing this you become more like a scientist than an musician, but its the opposite. It opens more doors to use your feeling and creativity, instead of limiting youself by shutting yourself out of it because there's some misplaced belief that it will make you a great, soulful player. Your just lazy, go pick up a theory book and start practicing.

[pickaguitar]

These "feeling it, dont learn it" posts don't do anything to help. Its from peopel that try and rationalize their lack of knowledge about what they are doing by pointing to past greats and saying, look they didn't know what they were doing either.

But they did, and more likely than not if they said they feel their way through it its because they practiced so much that they didn't need to think about it, it becomes instinct. They didn't just pick up an instrument and feel their way through it. They learned the chords and scales, and played along to records relentlessly.

And thats the point, to practice the theory and scales and stuff so much that it becomes instinct and feeling. I know this is a stupid argument, and I shouldn't continue it, but people that talk this way make me so mad.

You're playing music. God forbid you should know how the music actually works to make it sound better. Stop pointing to SRV and Hendrix and say don't analyze, feel your way through it. How do you feel your way through something you know nothing about or haven't learned? Idiocy.
So it doesn't matter what they say (SRV)...because you know better right?

[Yngtchie]

So it doesn't matter what they say (SRV)...because you know better right?Are you for real? If someone asked SRV for a guitar lesson, do you think he'd show you how to play the various licks and riffs, or would he say "Play what's in your head, either you get it or you don't"?

Which would be more helpful?

[pickaguitar]

Are you for real? If someone asked SRV for a guitar lesson, do you think he'd show you how to play the various licks and riffs, or would he say "Play what's in your head, either you get it or you don't"?

Which would be more helpful?
You should ask him :dunno

[blhm84]

Are you for real? If someone asked SRV for a guitar lesson, do you think he'd show you how to play the various licks and riffs, or would he say "Play what's in your head, either you get it or you don't"?

Which would be more helpful?

Exactly.

[blhm84]

And also, you can hear all kinds of crazy stuff in Stevie Ray Vaughn's playing that's obviously been learned and analyzed, you can hear altered scale and melodic minor all the time. You really think he magically felt that through, or that he sat down and learned it?

[Litsa]

pickaguitar: So it doesn't matter what they say (SRV)...because you know better right?

Without sounding arogant! No, it doesn't matter what SRV says to me because I don't have his heart, hands, hair, etc. I am girl who plays and understand the way it works for me.

I totally UNDERSTAND what blhm84 is trying to say about theory!!! I know this guy who plays Led Zeppelin and coped riffs, chords, and can explain EVERYTHING that is going on theory wise in ANY Zeppelin song. He PLAYS with feel and understanding what he is doing has helped his creativity immensley.

I also helped a fellow guitarist with his songs because he could only get so far with it because he didn't know what a I IV V is. He thinks he can write songs based on feel. He doesn't even want to learn Standard chord progressions to write. Deep down he has know motivation and just want to be instant song writer..I came up with am9 to sound haunting to his song which absolutley loved plus I add more to his song that he just couldn't do.
He still doesn't feel he needs to know theory...Hell he doesn't even want to get a book on song writing 101....He wants to do it by feel.

Bottom line some people can do it by feel and I feel other benefit from theory...

When I wrote this post I never intended on a war between theory vs. no theory...I only wanted to know if there was any kind of theory going on with Jimi's playing....

Thanks, Litsa

[buddastrat]

And also, you can hear all kinds of crazy stuff in Stevie Ray Vaughn's playing that's obviously been learned and analyzed, you can hear altered scale and melodic minor all the time. You really think he magically felt that through, or that he sat down and learned it?


good post. Yeah he ripped off Albert King. He learned and copied a lot of that. Plus he had Jimmie Vaughan show him a lot. Same with Hendrix and that Curtis Mayfield guy. They learned the vocabularly they liked. Litsa is wanting to learn the vocabularly she likes. I don't see too much difference other than you could continually stumble around and play the guitar and find the sounds you want to hear, or you can ask/learn and get to those sounds much quicker.

[Yngtchie]

I uploaded this for Litsa, but I figured the rest of you could also benefit from it. It's a bunch of instructional material on Hendrix I have collected over the years, plus some song transcriptions. I couldn't scan the 2007 GT article because I haven't connected my scanner yet, but this should be more than enough for now.

http://www.2shared.com/file/4477105/1a692333/Hendrix_instructional.html

[Jazzydave]

These "feeling it, dont learn it" posts don't do anything to help. Its from peopel that try and rationalize their lack of knowledge about what they are doing by pointing to past greats and saying, look they didn't know what they were doing either.

But they did, and more likely than not if they said they feel their way through it its because they practiced so much that they didn't need to think about it, it becomes instinct. They didn't just pick up an instrument and feel their way through it. They learned the chords and scales, and played along to records relentlessly.

And thats the point, to practice the theory and scales and stuff so much that it becomes instinct and feeling. I know this is a stupid argument, and I shouldn't continue it, but people that talk this way make me so mad.

You're playing music. God forbid you should know how the music actually works to make it sound better. Stop pointing to SRV and Hendrix and say don't analyze, feel your way through it. How do you feel your way through something you know nothing about or haven't learned? Idiocy.

I'm not saying to not analyze it. In fact, thinking about what's in your head and reproducing it through your fingers is, in a lot of ways, much harder than just picking up a book of scales.

If you've seen any of my other posts, I always encourage people to learn the basics first. Get the basic chords, scales, etc under your belt and then attempt to move forward.

This guy sounds like he already has the basics down - so there's no real need to spend the next 5 yrs trying to find the formula that people have been trying to figure out for 40 yrs now. He just needs to start expanding his playing and MANY MANY MANY of the great players (like Steve Morse) ALWAYS talk about spending time trying to reproduce what's going on in your head.

Some of you all take the subject and get it all out of whack. The guy's not gearing up to go to MIT or Berkeley! It sounds to me like he just wants to advance his playing and learn more about the style that he likes. Some of that can be learned through a book, yes, but if he already has a foundation, its time to start thinking outside the box - and there's nothing more important than being able to think about what you want to hear and being able to produce it on the guitar. ANY pro will tell you that.

SRV, George Harrison, Hendrix, etc - they all had something in common - most of them didn't know the scales, chords, "theory", but they DID know how to reproduce their thoughts and inspiration instead of sitting going, "Well, if I'm using this chord over this progression...and then move it to the IV..."

[Litsa]

This guy sounds like he already has the basics down - so there's no real need to spend the next 5 yrs trying to find the formula that people have been trying to figure out for 40 yrs now. He just needs to start expanding his playing and MANY MANY MANY of the great players (like Steve Morse) ALWAYS talk about spending time trying to reproduce what's going on in your head.

uh, first off I am not a guy! I am a girl :D I think you are really misunderstanding the point I was trying to make... I am not trying to find a formula that people have been trying to figure out for 40 years. As a matter of fact there has been many of times where I have improsed not thinking scales or triads as a matter the only problem is I can't do on the fly...No worries...I really think this post turned into something other then what I was trying to convey...

It's all cool, that is what happens when trying to communicate on a forum...It's all good though!!

Jazzy Dave Quote: SRV, George Harrison, Hendrix, etc - they all had something in common - most of them didn't know the scales, chords, "theory, but they DID know how to reproduce their thoughts and inspiration instead of sitting going, "Well, if I'm using this chord over this progression...and then move it to the IV..."

How do you know this? Because you read what these dudes say in a magazine about not know what they are doing. Did you know them personally. Did you know that George Harrison took lessons to improve his improvising skills? This was after the Beetles made it big. Ask yourself why? Why would George have to take lessons? It's a well know fact!

Those who encourage me in understanding that there is theory to understanding Hendrix's chordal embellishment just wanted to try to answer my question. They never came off to me as trying to make me be like a Jazz scholar.

JazzyDavea Qyote: and there's nothing more important than being able to think about what you want to hear and being able to produce it on the guitar. ANY pro will tell you that.

You know that is a good analogy, however, I've seen tons of musician who COULDN'T take things out of there head and transpose it on the fretboard until they started hearing triads, and intervals and understanding what was going on musically. And then there are those who can naturally do it. Who cares not everyone is on the same plain of how they process music.

It doesn't make it wrong if a guitarist had to understand how to hear triads and intervals does it. Heck, our very own TOMO stresses the importances of triads and how to hear COLOR!!!!

I've met PRO'S who know there theory and KNOW how to hear intervals, know the color of triads and scales and those are the dudes are MONSTER players. Those are the guys and GALS, I look up too...

Ya know music is all about finding your own path and to be honest I am studying Hendrix's playing and I'll find my way...

Truthfully, at this point I really don't care anymore if I can make my own song and improvise like Hendrix did because at least I can play some of his stuff.

Thanks for everyone's rely. Litsa (THE GIRL GUITAR PLAYER)

[Jazzydave]

Litsa, sorry for not knowing that you're a woman - not sure how I was supposed to know, but I'm sorry.

As for my comments, I was only trying to help. All I'm trying to say is that there is a balance that has to be met between theory and imagination. I'm not knocking the other guys/gals for pushing theory - NOT AT ALL! I thought I made that clear! I don't understand why all the "theory" guys feel they need to bash me for pushing artistic thought. OF COURSE theory helps! I was just under the impression that you already had some type of base theory.

I know theory as well - i've studied it intensely for years but I learned nearly everything I know from watching other players and applying what I could learn from them. No, of course I didn't know those guys, I'm 27 yrs old! BUT, I have read many books, watched/read interviews, studied their music and guess what? I don't have any issues playing Hendrixy type music. It flows pretty nicely IMO and that's bc I put the time in with my hands on the guitar vs. the head in a book. Anyone who has studied these type of players can come to the same conclusion without having to meet them or know them.

There are many different roads to the same path. You asked the question, I tried to give you an answer that obviously you (and some others) didn't want to hear. Either way, its still a road to go down. I try to keep an open mind about my playing...take everything in and then try to share that along the journey.

I'm sorry if I upset any of you all. Seemed like some anger brewing up...and I didn't mean or intend to offend anyone. These are all my opinions and weren't directed towards anyone in particular except Litsa in hopes of helping HER push forward.
:dunno

P.S. I hear in color...

(gracefully bowing out...)

[Litsa]

Hey JazzyDave,

Know WORRIES, I truly appreciate your reponse!!! I see what you're saying!!!

I think you play AWESOME, and to be honest when I listened to you're playing, I really loved that chord embellishment you did!

Trutfuly I don't know all there is to theory and maybe I need to copy more stuff, and not think about theory for a while...I know how to play Little Wing all the way through (not just the intro) and now I am almost done learning Lenny by SRV as well. So, those are only two songs in which kind of do the chord embellishment things...I guess I'll just keep learning more!!

YOUR COOL and I was joking about the not knowing I am woman guitarist, LOL!!!

I'll keep tapping onto your myspace for inspiration and I am always inspired by the kindness of musicians on this forum who always cool enough to help!!

We might not all agree on certain things, but that is what makes us different!!! Thanks again!

[Jazzydave]

Hey Litsa...always take my posts with a light heart. I have a tendency to be straight forward at times and I guess its kind of dry humor. =)

I'm sending you an email with some material that I think will help...so watch for it! It'll be two parts...

:banana

[henry_the_horse]

Instead of arguing about theroy vs. feel, why don't you just answer the darn question.

Litsa, learn the pentatonic scale (not the blues scale) in all positions
http://www.ricardopellican.com/2007/html_include/escuela/13PENTA.JPG (http://www.ricardopellican.com/2007/node/51)
My teacher, Ricardo Pellican, says there are 8 possible positions, I find it easier to short that number to 5 positions, each starting on a different scale degree. I call that, for practical reasons, five modes of the pentatonic scale, although the pentatonic scale is in itself a mode.

According to Andy Aledort, former editor for Guitar World magazine, and, as Wolf Marshall, scholar in the Hendrix/SRV style, Jimi played mainly two scales embellishments: the mayor/minor scale, and the pentatonic mode.

First you have to relate each pentatonic mode with a regular minor/mayor barre chords with the root on the 6th and 5th strings.

For ease of communication let's number the minor pentatonic modes after the degree of the pentatonic scale they start on. These are the fingerings 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6 of the picture I posted above (i.e. from the "Pentatónica mayor"). These would be then modes 1 to 5 of the pentatonic scale respectively. Mode 1 is related to the minor barre chord with root on the 6th string. Hendrix (and SRV) usually played this mode adding the 9th on the first string, but avoiding half-steps. That is, he didn't move from the 9th to the 10th. Instead, he used to played a 8th-9th-8th trill (usually on the second beat of a ballad). An exception to this avoidance of 9th to 10th move is the Bm chord flourish in "Little Wing". (There are always exceptions to rules). Major barre chords with the bass on the 6th string relate to mode 2 of the minor pentatonic scale. Minor barre chords with the bass on the 5th string get mode 4, and major barre chords with bass on the 5th string get mode 5.

Now for the rhythm/beat approach, his ballad style was based on R&B beats. He would play the root on the first beat of the measure usually a fourth note, then flourish the second beat. After that retake bass on the third beat but this time usually two eight notes, and then a rhythm chord shot on the fourth beat, usually a dotted fourth note. When changing from chord to chord, he often slided to the bass note of the following chord.

The right hand rhythm is: fourth, fourth, eight eight, muted fourth. This is the Pops Staples/Curtis Mayfield rhythm guitar.
Hendrix style differed in that he usually added flourishings trills on the fourth beat too.

For Hendrix, major barre chords with bass on the 6th string get trills on the second or third string. If on the second string then trills moves are 5th-6th-5th. If on the third string then they are 9th-10th-9th (in a major chord these are a whole-step apart). Major barre chords with bass on the 5th string get trills mostly on the second and sixth string. If on the second string then trills moves are 9th-10th-9th. If on the sixth string then they are 6th-5h-6th. As you can see, all of these are whole-step trills. Play these trills with a combination of hammered on and pulled off notes.

Bass note moves usually move employing the major (seven note) scale.

It's very important for ballads to subdivide each 8th-note in 16th-note triplets from time to time instead of straight 16th-notes. Hendrix did this usually (notice that I am always using the word "usually" in these rules cases) on the third and fourth beat of the measure. This can be heard in the first measure of "Little Wing" progression (the G chord measure). Sometimes he also changed from straight to triplet eight notes, as can be heard on the second measure of the "Little Wing" progression (the Am chord measure).

For a better undestanding of Curtis Mayfield style study the RHCP's "Under the Bride", as Frusciante (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aCBlA6FRws) is a master of that style.

This is the best I could do regarding Hendrix rhythm style analysis.
Excuse me if it's a sacred 'feel' topic which refuses all analysis.
Excuse the long post.
Excuse me while I kiss this guy.

Regards

[Yngtchie]

Quality post. Btw, did anyone download the link I put up?

[henry_the_horse]

I did, but haven't found spare time to decompress and look at it. I'll try later. Thanks.

Regards

[arthur rotfeld]

Do you have the song written and you want to embellish it, or are you trying to write with the embellished guitar style? I'd recommend writing the song first, then embellish the chordal playing with the characteristic stuff. I mean, at core, the Little Wing intro is just a simple chord progression that has a lot of embellishment. So write the simple progression(s) first.

This is good advice.


So if you really understand "Little Wing" and what Jimi is doing, it is not hard to apply to other progressions.

[buddastrat]

Have to reiterate, the CAGED system and interlock with the pentatonics.

Here's exactly what I do with a student that wants to learn that style, but not just memorize a song. Take Hey Joe's C G D A E (where have I seen those chords before?!). It's absolutely perfect because it uses all five forms! Learn to play the progression full through in each position on up the neck using the system.

If that's difficult get some lessons and ask specifically for what you want to learn.

[decay-o-caster]

Instead of arguing about theroy vs. feel, why don't you just answer the darn question.
...
This is the best I could do regarding Hendrix rhythm style analysis.
Excuse me if it's a sacred 'feel' topic which refuses all analysis.
Excuse the long post.
Excuse me while I kiss this guy.

Regards

Slightly OT, but henry_the_horse - who ARE you???

Your posts about theory are always insightful, always usable (and useful), and I know that when things turn ugly in this section you will be along soon to shine a light on them and get the kittens herded.

Whoever you are, thanks for being here, and thanks for the analysis you've done here and elsewhere.

I agree, feel is optimal, but where there are notes and chords being played in western contexts, there is language available to us to describe them. To say that trying to understand them is somehow wrong leads to the conclusion that only "geniuses" are allowed to play music? Only those who have received the divine gift? I dunno, I have doubts about that concept myself. I've known too many great musicians who needed a jump start to get to the place where they could run with what they've learned and make it their own to think that asking for help on something musical is "wrong".

Rant over. I think I feel my meds kicking in. So thanks again for your posts. :)

[Yngtchie]

Slightly OT, but henry_the_horse - who ARE you???'Tis a mystery, but one thing's for sure... The man dances a mean waltz.

[decay-o-caster]

:) !!

[Litsa]

WOW, thanks Henry_the_horse!!! Very informative information!!!


You know I am somewhat familiar with pentatonics, however, only recently have really be hammering on them to REALLY learn them. I found that triads and chord tones have helped a lot.


And thanks to all who helped in LOTS of ways!!!

buddahstrat, I am somewhat familiar with the CAGED system. I found learning triads from string 123, 234, 345, 456, is starting to help. I know that CAGED systems are all about open chords and also gives like a target point to help memorize scales and stuff. Very cool!

decay-o-caster quote: I've known too many great musicians who needed a jump start to get to the place where they could run with what they've learned and make it their own to think that asking for help on something musical is "wrong".

Well said decay-o-caster!

[derekd]

Quality post. Btw, did anyone download the link I put up?

Yes, but not able to get to it at work. Thanks in advance.

[Tomo]

uh, first off I am not a guy! I am a girl :D I think you are really misunderstanding the point I was trying to make... I am not trying to find a formula that people have been trying to figure out for 40 years. As a matter of fact there has been many of times where I have improsed not thinking scales or triads as a matter the only problem is I can't do on the fly...No worries...I really think this post turned into something other then what I was trying to convey...

It's all cool, that is what happens when trying to communicate on a forum...It's all good though!!



How do you know this? Because you read what these dudes say in a magazine about not know what they are doing. Did you know them personally. Did you know that George Harrison took lessons to improve his improvising skills? This was after the Beetles made it big. Ask yourself why? Why would George have to take lessons? It's a well know fact!

Those who encourage me in understanding that there is theory to understanding Hendrix's chordal embellishment just wanted to try to answer my question. They never came off to me as trying to make me be like a Jazz scholar.



You know that is a good analogy, however, I've seen tons of musician who COULDN'T take things out of there head and transpose it on the fretboard until they started hearing triads, and intervals and understanding what was going on musically. And then there are those who can naturally do it. Who cares not everyone is on the same plain of how they process music.

It doesn't make it wrong if a guitarist had to understand how to hear triads and intervals does it. Heck, our very own TOMO stresses the importances of triads and how to hear COLOR!!!!

I've met PRO'S who know there theory and KNOW how to hear intervals, know the color of triads and scales and those are the dudes are MONSTER players. Those are the guys and GALS, I look up too...

Ya know music is all about finding your own path and to be honest I am studying Hendrix's playing and I'll find my way...

Truthfully, at this point I really don't care anymore if I can make my own song and improvise like Hendrix did because at least I can play some of his stuff.

Thanks for everyone's rely. Litsa (THE GIRL GUITAR PLAYER)

Thanks! Yes, it's important to understand some basic.. but song is first.. knowledges.. only can use after you do something with the song you love.. inspired from.. I love triads and apply them with a song.

Tomo

[mtlin]

Lot's of good information has been posted already. Here is a very simplistic distillation of what has already been said:

Play the chord tones, often as double stops (two notes at a time) and throw in lots of embellishments taken from the major pentatonic (if a major chord) or from the minor pentatonic (if a minor chord). For major chords this is really easy to do if you play an "A" shape bar chord with your index finger, but Hendrix could do it with a variety of chord shapes.

[Stu Blue]

Litsa. I used to joke that the difference between us ignorant rockers and them there jazzers was that we could play the same three cords all night long and make every song different and interesting whereas the jazzers took hundreds of cords and twenty totally different songs and made them sound all the same. The argument about feel versus understanding will never end because there are truths on both sides, but it's largely confined to the guitar because it's in the nature of the instrument that you can hold your own in blues and bluesy rock while having next to no formal understanding of music theory.

To my shame, I did ten years as a pro blues rocker and never practiced a single scale. I got by with bunch of licks, riffs and notes picked from cord shapes, strung together with a bit of creative flair and a good deal of emotion (I just get totally lost in it). I have no doubt that had I invested more time understanding what I was doing, I could have made much more of of my natural abilities. And of course I had my own private self-created understanding/vision of the guitar neck.

In pure blues feel is everything. As you travel across the music spectrum towards pure jazz understanding becomes paramount. So don't let anyone knock your need to understand this stuff. Players like me get stuck in narrow areas that they can cope with, in my case quite happily in the blues.

[henry_the_horse]

Decay-o-caster, thank you for your kind words. I cannot find the words to express what a joyful emotion I felt when reading through them. I really am thankful that you appreciate what I can bring to a discussion.

As you may have read in my other posts, I am an academic trained musician (master in composition from UCA, Buenos Aires) who also works at the music industry. And as it can be deduced from my nick I am a big fan of the Beatles, whose records I have transcribed to learn guitar and piano in my young years. I am not a great guitarist, just a lazy one with a penchant for theory, analysis and rationalizing. Big thanks again for your appreciation, man.

Litsa, glad I could be of help. Those pentatonic fingerings (CGDAE) are a must to get that soulful style. Keep up with the regular daily practice (I have just watched that Simpsons' episode "Lisa's Sax" where Lisa says she must practice an hour a day for her intellectual talent to ripe). I must confess I usually skip this part in my daily routine, not with great regret.

Regards,
Agustin
(http://www.geocities.com/jamsbrics/ingles/agustin)

[ScottB]

What started to unlock Jimi's approach for me was when I realized how much he was playing off the chords.

For instance, as others have already alluded to, try things like this:

When you're playing a A major shape barre chord (root on the A string), instead of having your first finger bar on the root fret, move it up two frets and then do hammer on-pull off stuff in the major pentatonic pattern.

Like this:

E - - - - - -
B - - 1 - - h
G - - 1 - h -
D - - 1 - h -
A R -(1)- h -
E - - - - - R

and note that you can do another voicing like:

E - - - - - -
B - - 1 - - -
G - - 1 - - -
D - - 1 - - -
A R - - - 3 -
E - - - - - R

or even:


E - - - - - -
B - - 1 - - -
G - - 1 - - -
D - - 1 - - -
A R - - - 3 -
E - - - - - 4

Another very Hendrix-y major voicing is playing off of a C shape:

E - - - -
B - 2 - -
G 1 - h -
D(1)- h -
A - - - R
E - - - -

Try this kind of stuff with Wind Cries Mary or Castles Made of Sand.

And then just start thinking about how you can use this same type of approach to add flourish and arrpegiation to other chords and voicings.

A lot of the Jimi progressions to me seem like the next chord is being led by the arpegiation he's doing off of the previous chord.

[Ken Ho]

Directly back to the OP, do you know Yellow Ledbetter by Pearl Jam ?? That song is directly derived from/insspired by Little Wing. It might give you some inspiration. It follows a similar form with a simple progression, EBAE, played in frags and embellished along the way. It's a nice tune.
I have seen Mike do a version where he breaks half-way through to play Littel Wing, then segues back into YLB to finish.
It's the last song on their Madison SG DVD, played wiht teh lights on and teh rst on the band just sitting around on teh stage having a drink and watching. Very cool !!

And oh yeah, henry is a dude.
Merry Solstice everyone !!!

[Dr Git]

I totally agree. I play guitar today cause I saw Hendrix as a child. Later on I read he taught himself to play, as i did. I know so little theory its scary. I think that by relying on your ears for playing, its a theory in itself. The thing about teaching yourself to play is, yes you 'll have a great ear for music, but what I learned my first 10 years of playing, a kid can learn in two.


Jimi wasn't a musician as much as he was a painter who used sound as his colors and the audience as his canvas.
Hendrix wasn't about theory, he was about feel.
He didn't study scales, he just played and played and played some more.
He wasn't about "book" knowledge, he was about "gig" knowledge and he based his style on the hundreds of songs he played while he was a backing musician as well as the sounds he heard in the modern pop of the time.
Plus he listened to the sounds in his head and worked hard to recreate them.

He told Roger Mayer he wanted his guitar to sound like a spaceship taking off and that's how he got to the mind blowing sounds you hear on "Are You Experienced?"
You'll never read that in a music theory book.

He also seemed to live without fear of failure and played from his emotional center. you watch film of him and you can see him experiencing every note like he's taking a breath.

You need to find that on your own, the center where emotion and sound meet and get translated by your fingers on the fretboard.
That's where both Hendrix, and SRV lived and it's not an easy place to find.

[Litsa]

GuitarTone reply: When writing your own songs in the style of Jimi, why not just copy Jimi, do exactly what he does when using the same chords.You know what he's doing, because you already know the underlying theory involved in the chords Jimi's playing...so copy what he does.

GREAT Advice, as I guess that is what John Mayer did, huh? I am not trying to start something hear, but I've noticed a lot of John's songs are very close in Jimi and SRV's style. I do know how to play little wing and Lenny and I am learning more stuff that have the Curtis Mayfield R&B style.

Ya know when you say that you have the capability to copy (in the sense of actually playing the style) It took me while until I was able to play with the thumb over the bass notes and to actually only pick certain notes out of the chord. But I can do it now!! I guess it just takes practice...

Thanks for the advise, and it is good, duh, why didn't I think of it, LOL!!!

[jim1jam]

What good is "feeling what you are doing" if you have no idea how to go about it. I'm sick of these people that think that since the guitar heroes of the sixties didn't talk about studying theory all the time that its some kind of sin to actually want to know what's going on.

I hate to break it to some people, but I guarantee that SRV and Hendrix knew what they were doing, and most likely practiced scales like the rest of us, they are just better than we are at applying it.

Of course players that connect with and feel with what they are playing play better, but that doesn't mean you to have be ignorant about what is going on out of some kind of feeling of being cool by not knowing music theory.

Nothing wrong with wanting to know what's going on and theory
but as far as Hendrix & Srv sitting around and practicing scales and such
i highly doubt it

[Keyser Soze]

There's a great SRV clip on youtube, he's in an interview and he demonstrates how Clapton's style of playing Hideaway differs from Freddie's. So yeah, in some sense all of these guys are students of each other. They may not discuss it or conceptualize it in typical theory jargon, but that does not mean they don't know it.

(Sorry, I'm at work and Youtube is blocked so you'll have to find the link yourself, but it's there)

When I think of Hendrix, and EVH, I can't help but note how phenomenal they were as rhythm players - they never lost sight of the guitar as a rhythmic instrument. in fact, take away all of their fancy leads and they would still be considered greats.

So, looking at something like Little Wing consider the chord embellishments like phrases, and then look at the breaks between those phrases. Some are long, some are short, but there is also an underlying pattern that allows for the building and releasing of tension. It is not just one big run on sentence, or dissertation - it is much closer to a dialogue - repetitive without being redundant.

You might also gain some insight by breaking down Hey Joe, which really demonstrates how Hendrix could be very tasteful and interesting while working over the very simplest of chord progressions.

[Jazzydave]

Here you go...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZoX6Q0UK8A

[Rock Johnson]

When I wrote this post I never intended on a war between theory vs. no theory...I only wanted to know if there was any kind of theory going on with Jimi's playing....

Thanks, Litsa

Litsa - As others have said, there is lots of theory going on in Jimi's playing, but whether he knew or could explain what it was is a different question entirely.

The earlier poster who spoke about embellishing the chord changes was right on.

Here's something that might help you a bit, as a practical exercise: take each of the "open" chords (A, C, D, E, G) and try to come up with at least two embellishments for those chords.

For instance, start strumming a standard open D, then use your pinky to fret the G on the high E string (3rd fret). Then, lift your second finger so the open E rings out. Fret and release it in a nice, rhythmic pattern with your strumming. Technically, you're going back and forth between playing D, Dsus chord, and Dadd2, but Hendrix would have likely thought of it as just playing around with that basic D chord. (Hint: listen to 'Wanted Dead or Alive' from Bon Jovi to hear this exact example, using the D chord. Right after Bon Jovi sings the first line, 'It's all the same,' Richie Sambora plays this exact little thing.)

Once you come up with those, you can move any of them to anywhere up the neck to use them in *any* major chord. If you use our previous example and simply move it up three frets, you'd be playing it as a F chord instead of a D.

So, let's say you have your Am-G-F chord progression. You can come up with embellishments for the Am and the G, and just slide that "D" embellishment up three frets, and you have a cool little idea for the F chord.

Hope this helps.

[Litsa]

Hi Rock Johnsons,

Thanks for the advise!!! Since I've posted I've been messing around the triads and have found that most of this hendrix style is small chord chuncks with small parts of the scale surrouding the chords.

Thanks for the information and I'll try what you suggested!

[seiko]

If the Miles Davis autobiography is to be believed then the reason that Davis and Hendrix hadn't played together before JH's death was simply because JH couldn't read Davis's charts and notation.

So, no, he didn't know theory in a notated/academic sense. But remember he spent years on the Chitlin circuit, backing up Greenwich Village musos, whatever paid the bills etc. and met Curtis Mayfield, the Isleys, Steve Cropper before breaking in the UK. I have to think that experience will teach you a lot about chordal playing.

It also neatly answers the question will there ever be another Jimi Hendrix (which you didn't ask)? No. Since it is impossible to recreate that experience, luckily.

[Litsa]

seiko reply: It also neatly answers the question will there ever be another Jimi Hendrix (which you didn't ask)? No. Since it is impossible to recreate that experience, luckily.

Well, I never asked this kind of a question because I didn't post asking whether Hendrix new theory, or whether they're will ever be another Hendrix.

I basically asked whether there was some kind of theory behind his chord embellishment R & B rhythmn style.

I think this post turned into something a little different then what I expected. However, it's all good because quite a few answered my question!

Thanks for the reply!

[karmadave]

If the Miles Davis autobiography is to be believed then the reason that Davis and Hendrix hadn't played together before JH's death was simply because JH couldn't read Davis's charts and notation.

I heard it was because Miles wanted $50K cash to show up and Jimi's management refused.

-KD

[-Analog-]

Well, I never asked this kind of a question because I didn't post asking whether Hendrix new theory, or whether they're will ever be another Hendrix.



It is evident that Jimi had some theory. How much? well never know. There is a method to the madness which presents itself in his music. Mostly feel & I'm not a 100% sure how you can define someone's feel musically. Even more so with Jimi, he was a color of the day kind of person and it shows in his music.

After farting around with Jimi's music and technique for the last 10+ years, just repetitve noodling at home, gigging, tonal experiments & reading have led me to accept that it is Feel of the Moment & whats in your head. You can spend an infinite time reading up on it, better off just playing :)

I've had the best results when playing My Hendrix inspired progressions vs trying to just emulate what hendrix did while covering his music. You can hear a million guitarists inspiried by what he recorded, hear their emulation of his style but its never the same.

As for your quest for the equasion behind his R&B Rythm playing. Practice is key! Play around with his scales,chords and patterns. "Mix n' Match"

Try different tunnings- thats where things became interesting for me..
Wind cries mary in DGCGCD, or Voodoo Child in DADGBD. Just experimenting with tunning can expand the playing field.

[Jazzydave]

I'm sure Hendrix knew some basics - especially the Nashville numbering system, being that he played that early circuit and those guys were known for changing keys on the fly. They were all pretty heavily influenced by jazz as well (check out the voicings on some of those early Motown records!).

It is said that Hendrix was working away from the usual rock and roll scene and move towards a jazz based ensemble - similar to the visions SRV had later in his career.

Anyhow, we've severely highjacked this girl's thread! I'm sure you're learning a lot about Hendrix though and that's just as important when trying to understand what he was doing.

Have you checked out the Signature Licks books? They're pretty cool bc you can jam to the Hendrix backing tracks. Might be something to ask for before Christmas in a few days!

[Litsa]

Hi All,

This is what I meant by learning theory behind what hendrix is doing! This is very informative, and this dude also has a minor progression as well...

Lots recommended chordal and pentatonic scales and it's true, but the indepth analogy is cool, plus I totally got what he is doing... Here is a link to the site explaining the theory, plus musical example....the first is major chordal and the second is minor...For anyone really wanting to learn it this is way cool. That is beside Jimi's actual playing

http://www.intimateaudio.com/psycho_licks.lick4.html

http://www.intimateaudio.com/psycho_licks.lick5.html

[JSeth]

Wow! A whole lot of interesting replies to the original thread - has anyone mentioned that Jimi's style of playing (left-handed w/ a right handed guitar) probably accounts for a lot of his "block/barre" chording shapes? I always figured that was fundamental to his approach... I always try to think of that when I'm trying to "ape" his style...

I'd have to disagree with the poster who said that Jimi practised scales and knew a bunch of theory - I doubt that he ever practised a scale in his life! But he sure played that guitar like no one else had before or has since, despite a lot of very talented guys who've tried...

[teleman55]

Best advice I can give original poster as a lefty player is: Dance around the chord. And...chords should most often be partial chords, not all the strings (is that a C or an Am7 you're playing?... I guess it depends on what notes are coming out of the other instruments and singers). Dance around the chord.

[seiko]

It amazes me how many guys seem to think that Hendrix, SRV, Clapton, etc,etc...never practised scales.

With respect, I would say that the chances are most probably 99,9% that all three practised scales at some point in their guitar playing lives...how do we know what SRV was playing when at age 9 he used to sit in his bedroom playing guitar all day long.
Or Clapton, who started at age 8, and also sat in his bedroom practising all day whilst the other kids were playing soccer outside.

I cannot see how at some point those guys didn't spend some time practising/learning scales...afterall, there's nothing wrong with practising scales, that's how you learn to play lead guitar.

IMO

Well, Hendrix had obviously figured out many diverse ways to play the pentatonic minor scale around the neck, so he'd got the pracitical application of it down. All anyone's really talking about here is did he know the name of the notes was playing, which, according to reports, he didn't. So, he might have been shown it at some point or picked it up by ear and figured it out from there.

[Sub City]

Andy Aledort's DVD's: Axis and Are you Experienced show & explain a lot, including all the Curtis Mayfield, Bobby Womack rhythm influences.

[Litsa]

I hope this doesn't come across as mean or anything, but as much as I LOVE Hendrix, who cares if he didn't know the names of the notes or whether he knew pentatonic scales, etc.

He was great, plain and simple! I know a lot of people take to heart what these dudes say in interview or whether they know scales or what they did to become great.

That's cool, but I come from we are all made up differently. Just because Jimi or SRV swear they didn't know what notes they were playing or what scales they were playing THEY DIDN'T reinvent the wheel.

Okay, maybe Hendrix did as he was the first to put fuzz box and did all these cool things sound wise, but the notes he played he copied a lot from the blues players.

I could see if he was Debusy (can't spell) or composed like mozart....People we are talking blues and rock...

My point is we are all made differently and not all of us are going to be Jimi or SRV no matter how much we read about how they did it....

I am not a scholar, however, I know how to spell chords and how to find major and minor pents. But I don't go crazy over it, hoewever, for me I do like to know what I am doing!

Maybe it's the OCD in me who knows! I think I really discovered my own answer in that I've learned triads and have been putting the double stops in them and taking bits of Little Wing and transposing it in different areas of the neck.

Since this post I've improved on coming up with hendrix type chordal licks...In my discovery they are just parts of triads with pents.

I am getting better at it not playing wise because I could already play a lot of it with thumb over neck etc. I am talking ideas wise and ya know what? I am HAPPY I know what a R 3 5 are and know who to spell them and I am happy I know how my spellings in cycle of 5th and 4ths!

I am happy that I know that a major pent scale is composed of a R ,2,3,5,6 and minor is R, b3, 4, 5 b7

I don't care if Jimi or SRV knew it....Who knows maybe if I were famous I PRETEND to not know it either after all it is just blues and rock, right?

But, I am glad I do and it has helped my creativity...Sorry to say, but it has!

Thanks, Litsa

[Ken Ho]

Me too, took me ages to get comfortable with the thumb over the top...I cant believe I never used the thumb Jimi style from day one...what's the point in spending years playing regular barre chords?

Here's a nice little "Bold as love" video lesson.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfoZjBJdwis

Well, it's possible that you had it bashed into you that "thumb centre" is the only acceptable correct technique, when really, the "right" technique is to move your hands all over to use the best position for the voicing/muting of the moment. Turn up the gain, and everyone works that out eventually.

Anothe rthing wiht Jimi style is to slide onto a chord or change from the fret below, giving a little atonic or chromatic fell to it, but quickly arriving in key. Taking a quick excusrion down a fret and then back up again holding a shape also helps create his loose, "almost falling of the rails but not quite feel" too.
The main thing I find with Jimi and Jimmy Page too, is that trying to play too precisely or nicely is often unrewarding, but really attacking the strings and fretboard with reckless energy gets me better results.