Plunge: Full Computer Upgrade

[Chiba]

Stumbled across a great deal on a last-generation Mac from a friend, so I decided to buy his and sell mine and finally upgrade from old and busted to new hotness :)

Outgoing: G4/400, 1GB RAM (full), dual heads w/2 cards, 2x40GB HDD.

Incoming: G4/Dual 1GHz, 1GB RAM (can take another 512MB), dual heads w/1 card, 2x80GB HDD - and a Superdrive! (DVD-R/CD-RW)

Exciting :D I've got a Protools OSX upgrade on the way as well.

--chiba

[jnavas]

Very cool. Which interface are you using?

[Chiba]

Sticking with my Digi001 & Protools LE, but moving to 6.4. I plan to hang on to my old system/software until I'm sure the transition works.

--chiba

[MichaelK]

Nice move - enjoy!

[matte]

Great computer, Chiba. I just sold my Dual 1 GIG G4. Did alota work with/on it.

[Chiba]

Everything went well with one small hitch. Apparently the firewire hardware in my old G4 is too old to support "Target Disk Mode", so I copied all my important stuff onto my firewire drive, which I then plugged into the new G4.

Unfortunately, OSX considers this firewire drive to be both Mac & PC - so it doesn't "understand" my Protools session files - it 'thinks' they are unix executables and nothing I tell it will change its mind :)

I know two ways to work around it - simply install the PT hard drive from the old computer in the new one OR use my iPod to transfer all the files (very time consuming). There's space inside the new box for 2 more hard drives, but I can't figure out where to hook up an additional ATA cable!

I'll have it figured out pretty quick - I'd actually like to have a third (or even fourth!) hard drive in there for iTunes & iPhoto files - I have something like 3 gigs of photos and almost 30 gigs of mp3s, so having another 80 gig drive (or 2) would be super cool.

It's nice to run two monitors off one card, that's for sure! With a gig of memory this thing just blazes - I can't wait to record with it.

--chiba

[MichaelK]

Cheebs, try this -

Highlight the session files, use the File menu or Command-I to open the "Get Info" dialogue. Go to the "Open with..." area and specify ProTools as the default application. That ought to do it.

Either that or drag the icon for the session file onto the ProTools icon (or an alias) to open it, then when you save it, it will save as a ProTools session.

You ought to check the disk allocation for each session the first time you open it to make sure ProTools saves audio files to the right session folder.

[Chiba]

MK - great idea, I tried exactly that. Didn't work - I think because the firewire drive is Mac/PC, it does 'something' to the files.

What I did do, though, is pick up a PCI card that allows me to run up to 4 more IDE drives - and it works fine - mounted my old Protools drive no trouble at all.

'Problem' solved :D

--chiba

[MichaelK]

Originally posted by Chiba
I think because the firewire drive is Mac/PC, it does 'something' to the files.
Doesn't sound right. All firewire drives are Mac/PC. Which did you try, changing the "opens with" or dragging to the ProTools icon?

Glad it worked out, anyway.

[Chiba]

I tried both - first dragging, then resetting the "opens with" through the "get info" dialog. Protools itself wouldn't even open up the files. It was weird.

But not now :)

--chiba

[jnavas]

Please let us know about any issues you have moving plug-ins over to OS-X.

[MichaelK]

Originally posted by jnavas
Please let us know about any issues you have moving plug-ins over to OS-X.
I can tell you that they all will have to be upgraded. That's the reason I haven't made the leap on my G4.

[matte]

Originally posted by jnavas
Please let us know about any issues you have moving plug-ins over to OS-X. Some VSTs(that come with both Carbon and Calssic versions as downloads)are not a big deal. Everything else is an adventure in conscious suffering.

[MichaelK]

Originally posted by Matte
Everything else is an adventure in conscious suffering.
That would be an improvement. I'm more inclined to call it "negative work."

[jnavas]

I figured the third party stuff would be somewhat of a pain. I haven't done much research on the ilok yet.

Is the same true for the digirack plugs?

I ask this because I am looking at a used 001 and the seller has verified that several of the plug-in manufacturers will transfer the registration. Everything he has is 9.2.

I might end up doing a dual boot system, and use 9.2 for PT and osX for all of the cool apps that run in it.

[MichaelK]

>> I haven't done much research on the ilok yet.

iLok is very cool. I wish all plugs supported it.

>> Is the same true for the digirack plugs?

Digirack plugs come with the version 6 software.

>> I might end up doing a dual boot system, and use 9.2 for PT and osX for all of the cool apps that run in it.

It may require two disk partitions for PT to work in OS 9. It used to be that if OS X was on the same partition PT would not work. Digi or Sweetwater web sites may have more info.

[jnavas]

You are correct, it does have to be on a seperate partition.

[Chiba]

I won't have any plug-in 'issues' because I've always only used the built-in plug-ins. Too cheap to spring for third-party ones and too honest to use pirated ones.

The place I do my final mixing has LOTS of plug-ins, and the reason he hasn't updated to OSX is because he's got a small fortune invested in those plug-ins.

On my basic mixes I don't usually need more than D-Verb, a delay, and the 1- and 4-band EQs that come with the PT software.

--chiba

[jnavas]

Same for me regarding the built-in plugs. I am thinking about going with a good outboard reverb. I guess I'm a little old fashioned about stuff like that.

[MichaelK]

>> too honest to use pirated ones.

>> the reason he hasn't updated to OSX is because he's got a small fortune invested in those plug-ins.

:D :D :D

[MichaelK]

>> I am thinking about going with a good outboard reverb. I guess I'm a little old fashioned about stuff like that.

JMO, but I feel there are plugs as good or better than any hardware verb but the most expensive Lexicons. Hardware's great to have too for other effects, but for straight reverb I find myself going to either Altiverb or RealVerb every time.

[jnavas]

Agreed. I'm just looking for something that would sound better than d-verb (which may sound fine and just have a bad internet rep) and that I could also take with me to use on the PA for live gigs. I figure I would also pick up the added advantage of being able to monitor with reverb or delay when recording without creating any plug-in latency or increasing CPU usage. Some folks seem to do better singing when they can monitor with some reverb.

[Chiba]

My singer likes to record with a little reverb going as well. I run an 'aux input' track with the verb on it and don't get any latency that I can detect.

I don't have any complaints with D-Verb, and didn't know it has a bad rep 'round the 'net. I don't use a lot of reverb anyway - I prefer a drier mix.

If you can find an old Peavey tube reverb, they are supposed to be really good.

--chiba

[Southbay Ampworks]

I repair, upgrade and configure Macs for a living here in LA (yep, I build amps part time folks!). I'm about to setup 9 Mac G5 editing systems for a well known college here in Hollywood, and they have the same issues as you do for their recording class.
1) Not all Firewire drives are Mac/PC. There is software that addresses the PC format made by Apple called "File Exchange". It's an extension in OS 9 that allows you to read a PC formatted Firewire drive. You can reformat the drive with Apple's Disk Utility under OS X or Drive Setup under OS 9 to make it a Mac Only drive, and then your files will quit screwing up. The PC format kills some of the file attributes when you save a Mac file to a PC formatted HD.
2) Every single Mac user I know has had problems with the PC format of Firewire drives, so I would highly recommend that you copy the files you need off, turn off the "File Exchange" extension and initialize the external Firewire drive with the Apple disk utility that you need. Otherwise you'll eventually lose date if it's a drive over 132gb in size. I'd go into more detail, but let's just say there's a problem with addressing a PC formatted drive over that size in OS 9. I've also seen it happen in OS X. CYA. Reinitialize the drive as soon as possible.

If you have any questions, email me offline at:
guru@lamacguru.com

www.lamacguru.com is my business website for Mac consulting here in LA. You can find me at IMDB and all that, too.

Good luck.

[jnavas]

What is your opinion on upgrade cards?

[Chiba]

SB - great advice - and I basically came to that conclusion before reading it :) Of course, I had no hard data and was merely going on intuition. I copied everything I could off it and used the OSX Disk Utility to initialize it and shan't be having any further problems with it :D

--chiba

[Southbay Ampworks]

I get phone calls from around the world from folks working on Macs. This has been an ongoing problem with "generic" PC/Mac Firewire drives.

Glad you got it sorted out.

[Southbay Ampworks]

Originally posted by jnavas
What is your opinion on upgrade cards?
If this is directed at me, I can tell you that the Sonnet Tech cards work. They have an OS X patch that allows them to be upgraded and work with the latest Mac OS X versions (at least as of about a month ago when I last put one in for an upgrade).

If you're upgrading a G4, then a new processor is definitely a kick in the pants for performance, and the price beats buying a whole new Mac, assuming you don't need the new FireWire 800mb ports or other features that the newer G5's provide.

[MichaelK]

>> Not all Firewire drives are Mac/PC....

(snipped)

Of course you're absolutely right and I was wrong. Dumbass me, I had forgotten that the first thing I did with my firewire drive was format it!

Back in the day when only my PC was hooked up to the 'net I transferred files back and forth using a ZIP drive. I often had to use ResEdit (OS 9) to fix Mac files after transferring them, which was no picnic.

Which is another workaround, but your idea is better.

[Chiba]

Yeah - I never formatted my firewire drive when I got it. I plugged it in and it worked, so I didn't worry.

I never had any problems until I needed to get some files off CD-ROMs that my OS9 machine couldn't read. My Powerbook didn't have any problems, so I put them there (OS10.3), transferred them to the firewire drive, and then couldn't 'read' them properly when taking them off the fw & going onto the OS9 machine. I know it wasn't the data itself because other data from those same CDs worked fine when transferred directly from the CD to the OS9 machine.

What it looked like to me was that OS9 didn't care about the extraneous PC data - but OSX did!

--chiba

[MichaelK]

Originally posted by jnavas
Agreed. I'm just looking for something that would sound better than d-verb (which may sound fine and just have a bad internet rep) and that I could also take with me to use on the PA for live gigs. I figure I would also pick up the added advantage of being able to monitor with reverb or delay when recording without creating any plug-in latency or increasing CPU usage. Some folks seem to do better singing when they can monitor with some reverb.
Good points all. Let me just mention some thoughts on them...

D-Verb is not outstanding like some plugs, but it's really not bad at all. For the purpose of tracking a singer it's perfect - so fast and easy to set up and uses very little processing power. I use it all the time for that. I set it up on an Aux send and route it to the singer's headset only.

What do you really need for FOH? Me, I need only a little tap delay and reverb. I use an old Lexicon MPX-100 in my PA rack: 16-bit, a few simple programs, but who can tell when they hear a reverb in a club that it's 16-bit? It sounds wonderful. I think it cost me about $100.

Don't get me wrong, I also have a few nice pieces of effects hardware in the studio. No two brands / models of hardware do exactly the same thing, so they come in handy. I use them mostly for effects other than plain reverb since the plugs sound so nice. But since you mentioned reverb specifically, that's what I'm addressing. JMO, but I'm thinking for your needs as you described them a really nice hardware effects unit would probably be overkill right now.

[jnavas]

True about FHO. I've always thought many subtleties are lost through the PA.

You know, I sometimes find myself looking for a reason to buy something:D

I am about to finally put an end to the PC/Mac debate. I have a used G4 that a friend let me pop his old Digi 001 into. The purpose behind that was to see how I like PT Le. Apparently, his version of PT Le has several digirack plugs, but no d-verb. Still, it gave me a good feel for the software, and I have decided to go OSX with a Digi 002r. Until the 002r arrives (contingent on the sale of a pool table), the "on loan" 001 should keep me busy.

Also, a fellow bandmate wants the Digi 002r as well, but he insists on using the PC platform. We've consulted all the documents regarding the best desktop for PT Le, and will be building the $600.00 system listed on the DUC.

I can't wait to put the two systems side by side. Ultimately, all that matters is the systems work and do what we want them to do, but running them side by side for a night or two will be interesting.

The coffee machine and family size bottle of Excedrin are both on order as well.