For those that don't like Rap.......

[OldSchool]

I salute You!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH8b5ruc_-E&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div

I'm not a Rap fan.........but I gotta admit, that was well done!:rotflmao

[cg]

brilliant!!

[BryanMatthews]

count me in as a member of that club.:agree

[mtcoolg]

That was very well done. Thanks for posting.

[tonio19]

No matter how you dress up a pig....it's still a pig.

[JPF]

I hate rap, but really enjoyed that clip - maybe there's hope for me yet, yo.

Thanks for posting that!

[PUCKBOY99]

DEAR GAWD !!!!!?????!!!!!! :jo








I DID like the Jar Jar Binks bit at the end though :D

[Chrome Dinette]

At this late date, if you can't find a single piece of rap music that you like, you might be closed minded.

Check out the 2nd, 3rd and 4th Public Enemy records. Try Spankmaster by Kool Keith. Listen to early Run DMC, The Message, etc.

[Strat335]

What's wrong with just accepting that it doesn't appeal to some? I don't like the entire culture of rap, the act of "rapping" or speaking instead of singing, the noises with turntables, the recorded samples, the aggressive and bizarre way rappers move and dress, the vulgarity of most I've heard is beyond any civility, and I don't think it takes musical talent as I define it in my heart and mind. It makes me angry to hear it, I don't relate and it doesn't speak to me (no pun) except to immediately piss me off.
And I don't think I'm close minded about music at all, just rap...I like jazz to Koto Melodies, Celtic to classical, bluegrass and rock and roll. Rap is different, and not liking it is not being close minded about music, because I don't consider it music. I'll bet you anything that there are a million rappers that are as close minded about bluegrass or country as I am about rap. See if you can get them to listen to Ralph Stanley for an hour. If they can't, are they close minded or do they just have different tastes?



At this late date, if you can't find a single piece of rap music that you like, you might be closed minded.

Check out the 2nd, 3rd and 4th Public Enemy records. Try Spankmaster by Kool Keith. Listen to early Run DMC, The Message, etc.

[JPF]

I've never understood the attraction of writing off entire genres of music with sweeping statements like "I hate _________". Personally, I dislike about 95% of the rap/hip-hop I've heard, but I could never close my mind entirely because I have heard some really good stuff too.

To each his own, I guess.I'm sorry to offend your artistic sensibilities, but I genuinely find nothing appealing about be shouted at with a backbeat. Perhaps it's because I haven't heard "the good stuff", or perhaps it's because I'm a sucker for melody and music that builds up and breathes - attrubutes I cannot discern in the rap music I've heard.

Or maybe it's simply because I'm a cantankerous old git who's still stuck in the '60s and '7os because I'm old enough...;)

If you'd care to lead me to "the good stuff" I'll give it a listen with an open mind and ears, but I do reserve to right to hate it if it doesn't strike the right chord with me.

[Chrome Dinette]

Or maybe it's simply because I'm a cantankerous old git who's still stuck in the '60s and '7os because I'm old enough...;)



Then you must be aware of the roots of this form of music from the decades you mentioned, right?

[MickeyJi]

What's wrong with just accepting that it doesn't appeal to some? I don't like the entire culture of rap, the act of "rapping" or speaking instead of singing, the noises with turntables, the recorded samples, the aggressive and bizarre way rappers move and dress, the vulgarity of most I've heard is beyond any civility, and I don't think it takes musical talent as I define it in my heart and mind. It makes me angry to hear it, I don't relate and it doesn't speak to me (no pun) except to immediately piss me off.
And I don't think I'm close minded about music at all, just rap...I like jazz to Koto Melodies, Celtic to classical, bluegrass and rock and roll. Rap is different, and not liking it is not being close minded about music, because I don't consider it music. I'll bet you anything that there are a million rappers that are as close minded about bluegrass or country as I am about rap. See if you can get them to listen to Ralph Stanley for an hour. If they can't, are they close minded or do they just have different tastes?

:agree:agree:agree:agree:agree:agree:agree:mob

[gkoelling]

Yep, I'm closed minded. I couldn't make through more than just over a minute of the video in the op.

Fourth grade level "poetry" with absolutely no melody just doesn't strike me as musical.

Sorry:rolleyes:

[tj1004]

count me in too, I hate rap. I guess I will just have to accept the fact that I am closed minded.

[scottlr]

I am not at all a fan of rap. I am mostly exposed to it on TV, and I have sort of got used to hearing it. I have to say that it is a PERFECT vehicle for comedy. SNL has had some really funny rap parodies. THIS ONE, is so freaking funny I about peed my pants! I had to go back and put the headphones on so I caught it all. That was damn hilarious! I think rap is perfect... for comedy stuff like this.

[scottlr]

You know, since this is starting to be about rap, instead of the funny shit the OP posted... Several years ago I went to a private jam. I knew the bass player (my age), and he had a younger drummer, and some kid that could actually sing pretty well, but thought he was a rock star in a damn basement jam LOL After awhile, we just sort of ignore him, since he was more interested in trying to get in his GF's pants between songs than actually paying attention to the music. So the 3 of us just started jamming a kind of funk thing, like the bass player and I had done for over 20 years. All of a sudden this kid comes running down to the basement, zipping his pants back up, and starts making up some rap shit to the groove we had got into. Right then, is when I started to hate rap for real. THAT is what it should have always been, a tight rhythm section laying down a cool groove they could do their shit to. But nooooo! They had to go with all that canned crap and loops and samples. The few rap acts I have seen that impressed me were those that had a BAND.

Oh wow, did I go on an old fart rant? ooops... [/rant]

[Chrome Dinette]

Ditto the above post, but here goes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmD3D8Wllas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6oUlDpXahE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjKHQeRSvjk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcCgn7pOsas&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3kRuJhIVIo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdJeb8It358

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnA_VHmZ158

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJEuUeBv5qI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qP2Jk7kFas

[reno88]

i've heard some public enemy that i thought was original and that i liked. i like some of the early beasties - "check your head" is a great record. but for the most part, i think rap is vapid, lazy and unimaginative. it's style (if one can call it that) over substance. obscene nursery rhymes over a synthetic drum track. i love to see rap as the target of parody. it's well deserved.

[scottlr]

So, do you youngsters like Kid Rock? For me, he allowed me to find some common ground, since he had a band, and guitars, and drums, etc. I'd still prefer the entire genre just went away. But if it has to be, then it need MUSICIANS! I recall a few on SNL that had strange bands, like a group of strings. That was pretty cool. When I see a rap guy coming out with canned music, I could care less. That's just karaoke in my book.

[JazzHessian]

Trying to explain rap to middle-aged white dudes is like trying to explain the Crimean War to a cat.

[VaughnC]

Rap has given me a new appreciation for Disco...and I loathe Disco ;).

[58gasman]

Face it, you guys are old!:p

Rap has been around for 30 years and is the predominate music among young people.

On the bright side - think about the crap their kids will be listening to.

[JazzHessian]

It's just funny to me that most people here claim that people who use sampled beats and "talk instead of singing" are untalented, when I doubt even a single person here (myself included) is talented enough to use a turntable to sample old sounds and turn them into completely new creations, much less actually rap over them.

Oh, and people who go on and on about how rap music is for "thugs" and is "violent" haven't the slightest idea what they're talking about.

[Brooks]

i used to hate country and bluegrass and disco and r&b and punk and classical. i still hate most of it; the older i get the more i realize that i don't like the majority of music, including rock & jazz. but, i have much love for the beautiful stuff that trancends genres and reaches me, like willie nelson/tony rice/bee gees/james brown/sex pistols/bach.

some public enemy/ice cube/beastie boys reaches me.

PS- i DO hate opera! music history class, being force fed "don giovanni". now i am insane.

[JazzHessian]

the older i get the more i realize that i don't like the majority of music, PERIOD.

This is exactly it. There's a whole lot of music out there, so of course most of it isn't good. Especially the stuff that's been homogenized for the radio. But that just makes the good stuff all the more moving and beautiful.

[Bassomatic]

Trying to explain rap to middle-aged white dudes is like trying to explain the Crimean War to a cat.

Awesome.

[Bassomatic]

It's just funny to me that most people here claim that people who use sampled beats and "talk instead of singing" are untalented...

Pretty silly, huh?

[TehSuperFox]

This is exactly it. There's a whole lot of music out there, so of course most of it isn't good. Especially the stuff that's been homogenized for the radio. But that just makes the good stuff all the more moving and beautiful.

QFT. I'm definitely a youngling and I hated rap for a long time. You really just have to weed through all the bad stuff like you have to do with every genre. I still don't really like any of the garbage that's coming out nowadays but there's some brilliant rap/hip-hip out there.

My main interest is jazz and I'm planning to major in it next year in college, but I'll admit that there's some stuff that's just not very good. Like I said before that's the case with any genre of music. It's fine if you don't like it, but to say that it doesn't require any talent is taking it a bit far IMO.

[SoCalSteve]

I actually find myself tuning into my cable's Music Choice rap station once in a while. I don't care for most of it as a genre but some of the heavier, darker, minor key stuff resonates with me - the stuff along the lines of Cypress Hill's Rock Superstar.

[Rock Johnson]

From http://www.bizbag.com/Misc%20articles/Rap%20Lyrics%20Translated.htm

"One More Chance" from Notorious BIG:

First things first, I poppa, freaks all the honeys

Dummies - playboy bunnies, those wantin’ money

Those the ones I like ‘cause they don’t get nathan’

But penetration, unless it smells like sanitation

Garbage, I turn like doorknobs

Heart throb, never, black and ugly as ever

However, I stay coochied down to the socks

Rings and watch filled with rocks


In English:
As a general rule, I perform deviant sexual acts with women of all kinds, including but not limited to those with limited intellect, nude magazine models, and prostitutes. I particularly enjoy sexual encounters with the latter group as they are generally disappointed in the fact that they only receive penile intercourse and nothing more, unless of course, they douche on a consistent basis. Although I am extremely unattractive, I am able to engage in these types of sexual acts with some regularity. Perhaps my sexuality is somehow related to my fancy and expensive jewelry.

[TehSuperFox]

From http://www.bizbag.com/Misc%20articles/Rap%20Lyrics%20Translated.htm

"One More Chance" from Notorious BIG:

First things first, I poppa, freaks all the honeys

Dummies - playboy bunnies, those wantin’ money

Those the ones I like ‘cause they don’t get nathan’

But penetration, unless it smells like sanitation

Garbage, I turn like doorknobs

Heart throb, never, black and ugly as ever

However, I stay coochied down to the socks

Rings and watch filled with rocks


In English:
As a general rule, I perform deviant sexual acts with women of all kinds, including but not limited to those with limited intellect, nude magazine models, and prostitutes. I particularly enjoy sexual encounters with the latter group as they are generally disappointed in the fact that they only receive penile intercourse and nothing more, unless of course, they douche on a consistent basis. Although I am extremely unattractive, I am able to engage in these types of sexual acts with some regularity. Perhaps my sexuality is somehow related to my fancy and expensive jewelry.

Yep, that embodies the entire genre.

[OldSchool]

Wow this went off Track.........but I guess my thread title didn't help.........

[Derek Q]

Trying to explain rap to middle-aged white dudes is like trying to explain the Crimean War to a cat.

:agree

Oh wait, here's contemporary blues summarized:

"Woke up this mornin' ____________ (fill in trite cliched lyrics, repeat)
"My baby left me _______________ (see above)

(mindlessly wank out a pentatonic solo through an expensive boutique amplifier for oh, say seven choruses)

"I'm gonna catch the last train to... (nevermind AmTrak wishes you were catching the last train to anywhere, fill in trite, cliched lyrics, repeat)

(outro wank while being totally oblivious to the rhythm)

Done. (apologize when the cops show up at your apartment telling you that they got a noise complaint from the neighbors)


See..... stereotyping entire genres of music makes total sense!

[scottlr]

From http://www.bizbag.com/Misc%20articles/Rap%20Lyrics%20Translated.htm

"One More Chance" from Notorious BIG:

First things first, I poppa, freaks all the honeys

Dummies - playboy bunnies, those wantin’ money

Those the ones I like ‘cause they don’t get nathan’

But penetration, unless it smells like sanitation

Garbage, I turn like doorknobs

Heart throb, never, black and ugly as ever

However, I stay coochied down to the socks

Rings and watch filled with rocks


In English:
As a general rule, I perform deviant sexual acts with women of all kinds, including but not limited to those with limited intellect, nude magazine models, and prostitutes. I particularly enjoy sexual encounters with the latter group as they are generally disappointed in the fact that they only receive penile intercourse and nothing more, unless of course, they douche on a consistent basis. Although I am extremely unattractive, I am able to engage in these types of sexual acts with some regularity. Perhaps my sexuality is somehow related to my fancy and expensive jewelry.

Yep, that embodies the entire genre.

:agree

Oh wait, here's contemporary blues summarized:

"Woke up this mornin' ____________ (fill in trite cliched lyrics, repeat)
"My baby left me _______________ (see above)

(mindlessly wank out a pentatonic solo through an expensive boutique amplifier for oh, say seven choruses)

"I'm gonna catch the last train to... (nevermind AmTrak wishes you were catching the last train to anywhere, fill in trite, cliched lyrics, repeat)

(outro wank while being totally oblivious to the rhythm)

Done. (apologize when the cops show up at your apartment telling you that they got a noise complaint from the neighbors)


See..... stereotyping entire genres of music makes total sense!

:roll
see, I get humor :D

I do see the engineering feat of taking samples and making them into something new. I appreciate the time and talent involved to do that. How many of the rappers do that for themselves? Is it not mostly the engineers and producers doing that part of it?

Anyway, you have to admit that if you could put yourself in our old ass shoes, and saw the history of seeing musicians working very hard to learn to play their instruments and sing and write songs, and if they were very lucky (not often for most), get a deal, that we might have a hard time with a business like rap. There's probably more out there that I'd like somewhat, but all I hear is from movies and TV, because I won't go out of my way to explore it. I haven't yet explored all of the stuff I DO like from the last 40 years.

Now get off my lawn ;)

[Derek Q]

Hey I'm pushing 40, do I qualify for curmudgeon yet? Lol.

Yep, if all I heard was the crap played on the radio, t.v., etc and didn't know any better, I'd likely be dismissive of rap too. That's the whole point. If all I'd heard of any type of music was what the media tries to spoon-feed me, I'd gag.

Scott, it's a good point you brought up about working hard to learn to play an instrument. Having both grown up in the inner-city, and having learned to play an instrument, I can appreciate that virtuosity can manifest itself both with instruments as well as the spoken word.

There are numerous rap groups that play instruments as well as write "songs" about deeper things than materialism.

I can understand that not everything will appeal to everyone. Whether it's rap, or John Mayer, or Robben Ford, (not saying you did it) but to put everything into an easy box and label it..... yowza.

And finally, believe it or not, there are rap fans who appreciate Ralph Stanley. (I caught two shows from the 'Down From The Mountain" tour) When he came out and sang a cappella, the hairs on my arm stood up.

And Alison Krauss... what can I say?

[scottlr]

You know, I record my own music. I no longer have a band, so I do it all myself. I use midi drums that I program, and I have taken apart loops to construct keyboard solos and such, which is how I can appreciate the audio editing involved.

I was born to be an old codger LOL I hated disco in the 70s, and when rap came along, I hated it even worse. In fact, I wished they'd have brought disco back instead. In the grand scheme of things, my reason was that this stuff (both disco & rap) was taking away the live rock band venues a little at a time, when that's all I wanted to do with my life. When I was a kid, the only place you'd find records being played was a skating rink, and the jukeboxes in various places. When clubs started having a DJ instead of a band, it really pissed me off. It still does. Oh well, whatcha gonna do?

[johneeeveee]

While I can obviously understand folks not enjoying certain types of music, I have a hard time with words like "hate" and "makes me angry" and "sucks" when it applies to music... especially on a musician's forum.

No one likes everything, but expending energy and getting pissed off at a style of music seems pretty ridiculous to me. Don't listen to or champion what you don't dig, but life's too short to get angry about it. Just a thought.

Here's something for consideration:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6zH6uMyU9c

Peace - jv

[JazzHessian]

Inner breathlessness, outer restlessness
By the time I caught up to freedom I was out of breath
Grandma asked me what I'm running for
I guess I'm out for the same thing the sun is sunning for
What mothers birth their youngens for
And some say Jesus coming for
For all I know the earth is spinning slow
Suns at half mast 'cause masses ain't aglow
On bended knee, prostrate before an altered tree
I've made the forest suit me
Tables and chairs
Papers and prayers
Matter versus spirit
A metal ladder
A wooden cross
A plastic bottle of water
A mandala encased in glass
A spirit encased in flesh
Sound from shaped hollows
The thickest of mucus released from heightened passion
A man that cries in his sleep
A truth that has gone out of fashion
A mode of expression
A paint splattered wall
A carton of cigarettes
A bouquet of corpses
A dying forest
A nurtured garden
A privatized prison
A candle with a broken wick
A puddle that reflects the sun
A piece of paper with my name on it
I'm surrounded
I surrender
All
All that I am I have been
All I have been has been a long time coming
I am becoming all that I am
The spittle that surrounds the mouth-piece of the flute
Unheard, yet felt
A gathered wetness
A quiet moisture
Sound trapped in a bubble
Released into wind
Wind fellows and land merchants
We are history's detergent
Water soluble, light particles, articles of cleansing breath
Articles amending death
These words are not tools of communication
They are shards of metal
Dropped from eight story windows
They are waterfalls and gas leaks
Aged thoughts rolled in tobacco leaf
The tools of a trade
Barbers barred, barred of barters
Catch phrases and misunderstandings
But they are not what I feel when I am alone
Surrounded by everything and nothing
And there isn't a word or phrase to be caught
A verse to be recited
A man to de-fill my being in those moments
I am blankness, the contained center of an "O"
The pyramidic containment of an "A"
I stand in the middle of all that I have learned
All that I have memorized
All that I've known by heart
Unable to reach any of it
There is no sadness
There is no bliss
It is a forgotten memory
A memorable escape route that only is found by not looking
There, in the spine of the dictionary the words are worthless
They are a mere weight pressing against my thoughtlessness
But then, who else can speak of thoughtlessness with such confidence
Who else has learned to sling these ancient ideas
like dead rats held by their tails
so as not to infect this newly oiled skin
I can think of nothing heavier than an airplane
I can think of no greater conglomerate of steel and metal
I can think of nothing less likely to fly
There are no wings more weighted
I too have felt a heaviness
The stare of man guessing at my being
Yes I am homeless
A homeless man making offerings to the after-future
Sculpting rubber tree forests out of worn tires and shoe soles
A nation unified in exhale
A cloud of smoke
A native pipe ceremony
All the gathered cigarette butts piled in heaps
Snow covered mountains
Lipsticks smeared and shriveled
Offerings to an afterworld
Tattoo guns and plastic wrappers
Broken zippers and dead eyed dolls
It's all overwhelming me, oak and elming me
I have seeded a forest of myself
Little books from tall trees
It matters not what this paper be made of
Give me notebooks made of human flesh
Dried on steel hooks and nooses
Make uses of use, uses of us
It's all overwhelming me, oak and elming me
I have seeded a forest of myself
Little books from tall trees
On bended knee
Prostrate before an altered tree
I've made the forest suit me
Tables and chairs
Papers and prayers
Matter vs. spirit, through meditation
I program my heart to beat breakbeats and hum basslines on exhalation

Saul Williams (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQWxdF8VXeA)

[TehSuperFox]

Saul Williams (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQWxdF8VXeA)

I really liked that, I'm definitely gonna check out more of his stuff. Thanks for posting.

[OldSchool]

You know what I don't get? Forget the lyrics,the clothes and the lifestyle, the lack of talent vs. what it takes to play a real instrument..........all of that aside, WTF is with people who just listen to 1 loud reverberating beat........blam, blam, blam over and over , just blam ,blam, blam ? Call me ignorant if you want but to me that's an example of how mindless people are becoming. Just add a cell phone with Text messaging and you have a serious airhead.

[LavaMan]

Regardless that it was rap...funny is funny and that was hilarious especially the last few verses...

[pickaguitar]

Well I like rap! Thanks for the stars wars link :)

[Turbo Gerbil]

That clip is hillarious. Love Yoda.

I've never listened to much public enemy, but after some of those video links I'll have to check it out in more detail.

I particularly like rap mixed with other genres.

Don't like "rapping" and scratching turntables? Better not listen to:

Ozomatli : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prhHI0lJenY
Ojos De Brujo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP5mGC6Wo8E
Directions in Groove: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fXf9yLjLxM

[airwarrior]

"Fourth grade level "poetry" with absolutely no melody just doesn't strike me as musical."

How much have you listened to? Many in the rap genre are some f the best poets in recent memory. Chillax there with the generalizations.

[OldSchool]

Regardless that it was rap...funny is funny and that was hilarious especially the last few verses...


DING DING . And there we have the point of the thread........ http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon12.gif

[johneeeveee]

...the clothes and the lifestyle, the lack of talent vs. what it takes to play a real instrument.

Do you honestly think it takes no talent to perform rap and hip hop music? If that were true, then anyone could do it, and that simply isn't the case.

Peace - jv

[Turbo Gerbil]

Do you honestly think it takes no talent to perform rap and hip hop music? If that were true, then anyone could do it, and that simply isn't the case.

Peace - jv

many rappers have a way better rhythmic sense than your average guitarist I'm guessing. Not to mention those who can freestyle rhymes are pretty impressive.

[JPF]

Then you must be aware of the roots of this form of music from the decades you mentioned, right?Yes, and you make a good point, but my ears and mind are fed less by paying homage to the music's history and influences, and more by processing the music as it's streaming. The historical provenance may be intellectually stimulating, but the music at face value is what really interests and moves me. I'll check out the suggestions you and nk made in this thread, and hope that I'll be forced to eat my words - one never knows... Thanks for taking the time to post them!

[jjboogie]

Check out the group I tour with. Here are some of there old classics with some of our modern stuff too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g40c6iAEHpc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgtcTVDcjH0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Zsv7JNpaI


The first three are from the early to mid nineties and won 2 Grammys for!

Here is some stuff from our record released in 2007

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lceZYoaKZPo&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feBDVwl0tCk&feature=related


Enjoy! The fun thing about them is that they fuse samples, drum loops mixed with live instrumentation. Singing and rapping.....melodies and Rhymes!!! Have a healthy respect for blues, jazz, funk, reggae and rock.

Our new album coming out in 2009 will have some rock influences blended in!

[Chrome Dinette]

Yes, and you make a good point, but my ears and mind are fed less by paying homage to the music's history and influences, and more by processing the music as it's streaming. The historical provenance may be intellectually stimulating, but the music at face value is what really interests and moves me. I'll check out the suggestions you and nk made in this thread, and hope that I'll be forced to eat my words - one never knows... Thanks for taking the time to post them!

Good point. Now that I have re-read this thread, I kind feel silly for posting to begin with, as I somewhat misconstrued the op's intention.

Anyway, I am not really a huge rap fan, but there is some stuff I like and I definitely think it's evolution, up to a point at least, is not just an aberration of musical history.

I tend to like older stuff or current stuff that falls outside the mainstream(Kool Keith, Dalek, etc). Rap wasn't always and doen't have to be about overarching materialism.

[OldSchool]

Do you honestly think it takes no talent to perform rap and hip hop music? If that were true, then anyone could do it, and that simply isn't the case.

Peace - jv

Sure it is. :dunno

But whoever did the Star Wars video had comedic Talent. http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon12.gifhttp://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon14.gif

[JPF]

Usually, that's pointless because whomever is asking has already solidified their opinion and whatever I link to will be labelled as garbage. But OK, I'll play. How about starting with some K-Os...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAJLkb5bpLs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6VrgPMLsiE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=602F1Db-uLY
Not bad!:AOK It's not what I would think of as being rap - it's not in-your-face angry and grating enough, so maybe I should cast a wider net when defining rap for myself.

I kept waiting for the second track to morph striaght back into "Hit The Road, Jack"...;)

[johneeeveee]

Do you honestly think it takes no talent to perform rap and hip hop music? If that were true, then anyone could do it, and that simply isn't the case.

Peace - jv

Sure it is. :dunno



Wow... I really don't wish to argue, but I find it hard to believe that you think anyone can rap, flow, or freestyle well. If you truly believe that, it just shows that you really don't understand the art form. That's ok, but why make such a ridiculous statement just because you don't like it?

I would never begrudge anyone their opinion on music. Folks are obviously free to like what they like, but claiming that it takes no talent to perform any form of art is just plain wrong.

Peace - jv

[Derek Q]

nkjanssen, I hadn't heard that one. I dig meaningful hip-hop lyrics the way Charlie Parker liked Country... the stories, man! Here's one of my favorites from Digable Planets:

Femme Fatal

it was 8:49 on a beautiful 9th day of july
there was not a cloud to speak of so the orange sun hung
lonely in the sky
i was laying prone in my catbeat home
listening to fine nappy jackie and his jazzcat's horn
sliding in a tape of bird on verve when suddenly rang my phone
hello butterfly a voice said
slip on some duds comb out your fro and slide on down to my pad
the vibe here is very pleasant and i truly request your presence
a problem of great magnitude has arose
and as we speak it grows
damn, what could it be i thought
a juice i bought and rolled on down to her pad
seeing bros i know slapping fives i arrived and pressed G-5
and there was nikki
lookin some kind of sad with tears fallin from her eyes
she sat me down
and dug my frown and began to run it down
"you remember my boyfriend sid that fly kid who i love
well our love was often a verb and spontaneity has brought a third
but due to our youth an economic state we wish to terminate
about this we don't feel great , but baby that's how it is
but the feds have dissed me
they ignore and dismiss
and the pro-lifers harrass me outside the clinic
and call me a murderer, now that's hate
so needless to say we're in a mental state of debate"
hey beautiful bird i said digging her somber mood
the fascists are some heavy dudes
they don't really give a damn about life
they just don't want a woman to
control her body or have the right to choose
but baby that ain't nothin
they just want a male finger on the button
because if you say war they will send them to die by the score
aborting mission should be your volition
but if souter and thomas have their way
you'll be standing in line unable to get welfare while they're out
hunting and fishing
it has always been around it will always have a niche
but they'll make it a privelege not a right
accessible only to the rich
pro-lifers should dig themselves
cause life doesn't stop after birth
and to a child borne to the unprepared
it might even just get worse
supporters of the h-bomb and fire bombing clinic
what type of s### is that? orwellian in fact
if roe v wade was overturned would not the desire remain intact
leaving young girls to risk their healths
and doctors to botch and watch as they kill themselves
i don't want to sound macabre
but hey, isn't it my job
to lay it on the masses and get them off their asses
to fight against these fascists
so whatever you decide make that move with pride
sid will be there (ladybug will be there, doodlebug will be there)
and so will i
an insect til i die
rhythms and sounds
spinning around
confrontations
across the nation
your block
my block
dreadlocks
what a shock
land of the free - but not
me


One may agree or disagree with what they're saying, but you have to admire the depth of the story. Bling-bling it's not.

[franksguitar]

The Star wars thing was funny. Rap is just inner city urban poetry that is on a backdrop of sampling and not real music with talented musicians or at least stolen samples of them. I can't stand Rap, but to each his own.

[Yngtchie]

I like listing all the various styles of music I listen to, mainly to come off as a man who appreciates all kinds of music. But I will put down rap in every possible way. Because, y'know, it's not music.

[johneeeveee]

not real music

Because, y'know, it's not music.

Very similar things were said about Ornette Coleman and "Free Jazz" back in the day.

Different strokes...

[Yngtchie]

My post is sarcastic, just to clear that up.

[Yngtchie]

If you write off an entire genre based on a very limited exposure to the genre (i.e. what you see on TV), I think you're missing out. If you hate jazz becuase you don't like the music you hear in elevators, or hate country because of what you hear on commercial country radio, or hate classical because you're sick of hearing Pachabel's Canon at weddings, I think you're missing out as well. If you don't care, though, then I certainly don't care either.Well put. I bought my first rap albums recently, one by NWA and one by Public Enemy. Never been into rap beyond the occasional song, but I find it interesting enough to value a CD purchase or two.

[johneeeveee]

My post is sarcastic, just to clear that up.

I know... I got that. I just thought your summation of that attitude summed it up pretty well. Sorry if I wasn't more clear :).

It always blows my mind when folks can "hate" any form of art. Sure, I understand not appreciating things, but going out of one's way to expend energy on blasting any form of music that might appeal to someone else is just wasted time.

We need more art and less hate in this world. If it enriches or inspires one person to create, or just brightens a moment of their day, then I call it valid.

Unfurrow yer brows, man - jv

[Yngtchie]

I know... I got that. I just thought your summation of that attitude summed it up pretty well. Sorry if I wasn't more clear :).Ah, hehe, that's cool. And yeah, I agree with what you said. I think it's silly to have such a negative attitude about music you don't listen to. Why not just go "that's not my bag, sorry", and leave it at that?

[JPF]

I strongly suspect that mainstream gangsta rap is not my bag.
:dunno

[johneeeveee]

Ah, hehe, that's cool. And yeah, I agree with what you said. I think it's silly to have such a negative attitude about music you don't listen to. Why not just go "that's not my bag, sorry", and leave it at that?

Yeah. I don't have any issue with someone not liking something (even if it's my music I don't take it personally). Art is so very subjective, and different people dig different music obviously. That's a no-brainer.

It just baffles me, especially on a music forum, how angry and definitive people can be about such things. It's not a big deal, but I really do find that odd.

And now I'm going to take some of my own advice and not spend another moment on this issue.

Peace - jv

[JazzHessian]

Rap is just inner city urban poetry that is on a backdrop of sampling and not real music with talented musicians or at least stolen samples of them.

Really, truly curious as to what makes rap and hip-hop not as "real" as the music you play.

Sure it is. :dunno

Put your money where your mouth is. Let's hear it.

[xntrick]

i liked Rap back when RunDMC and the fatboys came out..todays cRap has too much attitude for my tastes

[Bassomatic]

Put your money where your mouth is. Let's hear it.

Now *that* would be funny!

[gkoelling]

I know... I got that. I just thought your summation of that attitude summed it up pretty well. Sorry if I wasn't more clear :).

It always blows my mind when folks can "hate" any form of art. Sure, I understand not appreciating things, but going out of one's way to expend energy on blasting any form of music that might appeal to someone else is just wasted time.

We need more art and less hate in this world. If it enriches or inspires one person to create, or just brightens a moment of their day, then I call it valid.

Unfurrow yer brows, man - jv


So, if someone's day is brightened by lyrics promoting drugs, raping women and killing cops, the "art" is valid?

[airwarrior]

"So, if someone's day is brightened by lyrics promoting drugs, raping women and killing cops, the "art" is valid?"

You do realize there is much more to it than that right?

Seriously, you guys sound just like the people who talked about rock negatively in the 60s.

[Yngtchie]

"So, if someone's day is brightened by lyrics promoting drugs, raping women and killing cops, the "art" is valid?"

You do realize there is much more to it than that right?

Seriously, you guys sound just like the people who talked about rock negatively in the 60s.They are, just a new generation with the same attitudes.

[Strat335]

Good point. Not only that, but you're not allowed to dislike it or hate it based on everything you hear of it, because you haven't searched diligently to find some that isn't uncivilized and noisy crap. You are just an old curmudgeon for not liking something, didn't you know that GK? But the hate and vulgarity is allowed to represent, and it's "art." Seems a little hypocritical to me, too.
There may very well be some great poets in rap, I wish they would just sell poetry books instead of me having to hear it blasting out of a car at the intersection. Don't want to ask them to turn it down so you can think, you might get shot for dissing their poetry.

ok...I'm done. The OP's deal was funny.


So, if someone's day is brightened by lyrics promoting drugs, raping women and killing cops, the "art" is valid?

[Yngtchie]

Good point. Not only that, but you're not allowed to dislike it or hate it based on everything you hear of it, because you haven't searched diligently to find some that isn't uncivilized and noisy crap.Uncivilized and noisy?

http://www.jostleband.com/news/beatles_cavern.jpg

[seiko]

But the hate and vulgarity is allowed to represent, and it's "art." Seems a little hypocritical to me, too.


So, how do you feel about, say, the Rolling Stone's "Midnight Rambler" or The Door's "The End"?

[Strat335]

I hate the Stones, I would kill them. :) I don't like the Who or Zeppelin, either. Never listened to the lyrics of any of their songs except maybe, Angie, that I can think of. Death to all of them damn hippies. Now Andy Williams, that's music! :AOK



So, how do you feel about, say, the Rolling Stone's "Midnight Rambler" or The Door's "The End"?

[seiko]

I hate the Stones, I would kill them. :) I don't like the Who or Zeppelin, either. Never listened to the lyrics of any of their songs except maybe, Angie, that I can think of. Death to all of them damn hippies. Now Andy Williams, that's music! :AOK

I hear Glen Miller has some toe-tappin' platers that mattered. :AOK

[Strat335]

Como, too!! LOL



I hear Glen Miller has some toe-tappin' platers that mattered. :AOK

[johneeeveee]

So, if someone's day is brightened by lyrics promoting drugs, raping women and killing cops, the "art" is valid?

I understand and respect your point. I guess I was speaking more to the folks who were claiming it took no talent to produce hip hop or rap.

The truly negative topics you brought up do exist, there is no doubt, but they also exist in other forms of music as well. I may be wrong, but I feel that this represents a small part of the hip hop community. These topics also exist in movies, paintings, books, and other forms of art.

There is some really creative and powerful stuff being created in hip hop, IMO, and much of it has extremely positive and thought provoking messages. it may not be someone's bag, but it definitely takes talent and vision to produce.

Peace - jv

[Turbo Gerbil]

The truly negative topics you brought up do exist, there is no doubt, but they also exist in other forms of music as well. I may be wrong, but I feel that this represents a small part of the hip hop community. These topics also exist in movies, paintings, books, and other forms of art.
Peace - jv

Gotta wonder how many of those who complain about rap lyrics have played songs like "Boom Boom (out go the lights)" in their cover bands.

and while many of us may not like whats talked about in many rap lyrics, its true that those lyrics are a direct reflection of the lives many people are leading; which makes it the most valid form of "art" there can be. Isn't it interesting that nearly every form of original music created in the US, and played by most of those on this board, originated with the struggles of black americans?

[TehSuperFox]

I understand and respect your point. I guess I was speaking more to the folks who were claiming it took no talent to produce hip hop or rap.

The truly negative topics you brought up do exist, there is no doubt, but they also exist in other forms of music as well. I may be wrong, but I feel that this represents a small part of the hip hop community. These topics also exist in movies, paintings, books, and other forms of art.

There is some really creative and powerful stuff being created in hip hop, IMO, and much of it has extremely positive and thought provoking messages. it may not be someone's bag, but it definitely takes talent and vision to produce.

Peace - jv

It seems that no matter how many times this point is made people just overlook it anyway.

I really don't care if you don't like rap/hip-hop - I know not everyone will. But I'm astounded at the amount of ignorant comments and sweeping generalisations in this thread.

[seiko]

You obviously havn't bothered to take the time to read any of the lyrics posted on this thread or watch any of the YouTube links. To say that, just to take one example, "No Regrets" by Aesop Rock isn't art because some other song talks about raping women is rediculous. Surely you can see that.

Anyone know who wrote these lyrics?

"One of these mornin's, gonna wake up crazy
Gonna grab my gun and kill my baby
Nobody's business but my own

One of these mornin's gonna wake up boozy
Gonna grab my gun, gonna kill old Suzie
Ain't nobody's business but my own"

Fifty Cent? Eminem? No. Mississippi John Hurt, actually. Does that invalidate blues as an artform?


S'funny, time puts a nice patina on this raw nerve stuff. I mean Pat Hare played and sang on "I'm Gonna Murder My Baby", then he went and did it. But that's ok, cos he's an old blues dude.

[Josh O]

Here's what irritates me, that the gangsta rap, f-word laden, sexually demeaning to women rap that's out there is always what is associated with rap and hip hip in general. If you don't like rap/hip hop, that's fine, I don't like jazz, I don't like country (except for Johnny Cash, he was one cool mofo), I don't like pop/lite rock, I don't like hair metal, I don't like alot of the new wave MTV video crap that came out of the mid '80s, I don't like Steely Dan, my list goes on and I don't expect to be second guessed as to why "I" don't like it.

I do think there is some talent associated with alot of what's out there in the rap/hip hop offerings, I do like early Public Enemy (at least pre Flavor Flav being one of VH1s poster children) because they were raw, I love the Beastie Boys they are such a mulit-faceted act of rap/hip hop/funk/mood music, old school acts like Run DMC, Boogie Down Productions, Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five are just cool I think and hey if it wasn't for Run DMC, would Aerosmith really gotten their second wind like they did? Some more thought provoking and musically enriched hip hop like The Roots, Jurassic 5, Mos Def and even some of the Fugees stuff and Wyclef Jean solo stuff is more than just some sampling and throwing out a few rhymes laced with profanity and sexually explicit material. And I honestly think there is real talent associated with DJ scratching ala Grandmaster Flash, Jam Master Jay, Terminator X and even DJ Lethal. I like how scratching has found a home in modern rock music, not just nu metal stuff like Limp Bizkit, but more atmospheric type scratching like in alot of 311's music, Incubus and Sugar Ray.

Bottom line, like what you like, dislike what you dislike but not all rap/hip hop is Snoop Dogg if you know what I'm saying.

BTW, I think the link the original poster put up was a freakin' riot!!!

[Nimrod11477]

Just like any genre of music, there is the bad, the average, and the good. There's a lot of bad rap out there, and there is certainly is a lot of bad rock (avenged sevenfold comes to mind, and they dress as ridiculously as the most gangster rap artists). I used to hate on rap across the board when I was in high school a couple years ago, but now I do enjoy rap quite a bit!

[Josh O]

Whether something like this appeals to you or not is completely subjective, but to call it "uncivilized noisy crap" full of hate and vulgarity is just objectively wrong...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgQdWoIkbCk

:agree

my point exactly, not all rap/hip hop is Notorious BIG/Tupac/Snoop Dogg/Eminem/50 Cent/Kanye West/Dr Dre, not all rap glorifies pimping, selling drugs, bangin' ho's, killing cops, gang banging, rolling on 26's in your new Escalade, etc, etc

[Bassomatic]

One of my fave hiphop tracks, from across the pond no less:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_m91qCXxQ4

(with lines like salad cream and cucumber/enough to make a boy wonder what's not to love?)

[Bassomatic]

Don't want to ask them to turn it down so you can think, you might get shot for dissing their poetry.



I'm sure you didn't mean it as such, but this comes across as a bit racist, imo.

On the subject of vulgarity and art, D.H. Lawrence's classic Lady Chatterley's Lover was once banned due to its use of vulgar language.

[JazzHessian]

I'm sure you didn't mean it as such, but this comes across as a bit racist, imo.

Yeah, I was thinking that, too.

[Strat335]

Not in the least, but most of the rap I've heard is very much so. IMO


Yeah, I was thinking that, too.

[JazzHessian]

Not in the least, but most of the rap I've heard is very much so. IMO

Maybe you should hear more rap before you make off-base comments then, eh?

[Strat335]

LOL.
You have some kind of agenda here? Take it private.

Maybe you should hear more rap before you make off-base comments then, eh?

[gkoelling]

:agree

my point exactly, not all rap/hip hop is Notorious BIG/Tupac/Snoop Dogg/Eminem/50 Cent/Kanye West/Dr Dre, not all rap glorifies pimping, selling drugs, bangin' ho's, killing cops, gang banging, rolling on 26's in your new Escalade, etc, etc

I'll take your word on this because my exposure to this stuff is limited to what few seconds I can tolerate before it gets on my nerves and I shut it off, regardless of content. I find it damn irritating. However, you've just named 7-8 different rappers who are offensive, yet expect others to overlook that and appreciate the genre.

Sorry, that isn't going to happen.

[Josh O]

I'll take your word on this because my exposure to this stuff is limited to what few seconds I can tolerate before it gets on my nerves and I shut it off, regardless of content. I find it damn irritating. However, you've just named 7-8 different rappers who are offensive, yet expect others to overlook that and appreciate the genre.

Sorry, that isn't going to happen.

Believe me I hear what you're saying.

[airwarrior]

Sheesh, imagine if the only rock you listened to was the Monkees.

[gkoelling]

Sheesh, imagine if the only rock you listened to was the Monkees.

:boxer:boxerYou talkin ta me??:boxer:boxer

I ain't takin' that crap from you!!@! :boxer

Besides, if you're saying rap isn't any better than the Monkees, you need to go listen to Mr. Nesmith. The man can pick a guitar.

[seiko]

Sheesh, imagine if the only rock you listened to was the Monkees.

Monkees is gonna be a no-no, I'm afraid. :nono

Check the promo clip for "Porpoise Song", could encourage people to throw themselves off the Golden Gate Bridge in an acid haze. Hardly socially redeeming art, methinks.

I believe that just leaves the Flying Nun, the Chipmunks and Pat Boone and the jury's still out on those rodents.

[suckamc]

Oh wait, here's contemporary blues summarized:

"Woke up this mornin' ____________ (fill in trite cliched lyrics, repeat)
"My baby left me _______________ (see above)

(mindlessly wank out a pentatonic solo through an expensive boutique amplifier for oh, say seven choruses)

"I'm gonna catch the last train to... (nevermind AmTrak wishes you were catching the last train to anywhere, fill in trite, cliched lyrics, repeat)

(outro wank while being totally oblivious to the rhythm)

Done. (apologize when the cops show up at your apartment telling you that they got a noise complaint from the neighbors)


See..... stereotyping entire genres of music makes total sense!


:roll But you forget! There's always that ambiguous and visually-informed "soul" variable. You know, that thing that's inversely related to one's number of notes per minute and to the pigment of one's skin. You do remember that, right? That's what enables us to talk about certain people "overplaying" songs and the like... as in, "oops, I'm sorry... the correct number of notes was 43; you played too many." Also, recall that the number-of-notes limit can be waived depending on one's age, skin color, and especially on one's recognized status within the blues community (e.g., SRV got booed early on... too young, too white, too fast, not a recognized exception to the guidelines = clearly not soulful). If you need a copy of the rule book, just contact your local museum.

Why bother? The great, non-cliched hip hop will get brushed aside by the naysayers just as quickly as they brush aside any real innovation and forward-thinking within their own favorite genre.

(FWIW, I'm not at all dumping on the people who have stated nothing more than that they don't LIKE rap. PREFERENCES are cool.)

[JazzHessian]

LOL.
You have some kind of agenda here? Take it private.

Agenda? I just think if you don't know what you're talking about, then maybe you shouldn't talk about it. If you've only ever heard a handful of rappers, maybe you're not exactly qualified to dismiss an entire genre of musicians as untalented, violent thugs.

[armando]

I was ready to post a scathing reply but instead ended up enjoying the clip.

[pickaguitar]

To me rap doesn't get any better than Eazy E, Dre, Snoop and Shady.
The more hardcore the better I say!

[JPF]

Check out the group I tour with. Here are some of there old classics with some of our modern stuff too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g40c6iAEHpc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgtcTVDcjH0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Zsv7JNpaI


The first three are from the early to mid nineties and won 2 Grammys for!

Here is some stuff from our record released in 2007

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lceZYoaKZPo&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feBDVwl0tCk&feature=related


Enjoy! The fun thing about them is that they fuse samples, drum loops mixed with live instrumentation. Singing and rapping.....melodies and Rhymes!!! Have a healthy respect for blues, jazz, funk, reggae and rock.

Our new album coming out in 2009 will have some rock influences blended in! I'm enjoying it:dude. You and your band are succeeding in ruining my preconceived ideas about rap as I'd heard it to date. Good stuff, and thanks!

[Strat335]

I see where you're coming from. I spent ten days in jail several years ago and thought I was an expert after listening to the residents rapping 24/7.
I became an expert on what THEY were saying. Talent is in the eye of the beholder, and all that. Again, I see your point.
For the guy in Arrested Development, really like the positive message.
Both of you have a Happy New Year and be happy.




Agenda? I just think if you don't know what you're talking about, then maybe you shouldn't talk about it. If you've only ever heard a handful of rappers, maybe you're not exactly qualified to dismiss an entire genre of musicians as untalented, violent thugs.

[Peppy]

Trying to explain rap to middle-aged white dudes is like trying to explain the Crimean War to a cat.


Ahhh, the hollow glibness that passes for cutting edge.

[Nimrod11477]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zitbExMdlvY

^^^^'nuff said. Haha.

[Bassomatic]

I see where you're coming from. I spent ten days in jail several years ago and thought I was an expert after listening to the residents rapping 24/7.
I became an expert on what THEY were saying. .

Sheesh.

[JPF]

Yeah - dude paid his dues.

[Yngtchie]

He's an expert, no less.

[Strat335]

You have no idea of the dues I've paid, JPF.

That ten days is of course not the extent of my exposure.....but it was constant..you evidently don't know how long ten days and nights can be. lol And I am an expert at knowing what I think sucks and what I think doesn't. I've been hearing it since the 80s when it started getting popular, I've heard enough to form an opinion. I didn't come on this board to hurt anyone's feelings or piss anyone off or to get brow beaten for having an opinion, I realize rap is popular and I am in the minority, or at least I'm one of the few who will say what they believe because of the thought police, and PC police. I will join their silent crowd now, I see it's not worth it. No offense meant, personally.



He's an expert, no less.

[JazzHessian]

Ahhh, the hollow glibness that passes for cutting edge.

Have something useful to add to the discussion? Maybe you could enlighten us with your apparently deep understanding of the ethic, the musical traditions, and the socio-economic factors that led to the rise of the hip-hop movement. I look forward to your contributions.

[JazzHessian]

I didn't come on this board to hurt anyone's feelings or piss anyone off or to get brow beaten for having an opinion...

It's not because you have an opinion. It's because you have one that's based on your very limited experiences for the sole reason that they support your world view.

The arrogance that it takes to write off an entire musical tradition (and like it or not, it's a musical tradition) has no place in any sort of constructive dialogue about music.

Do you have to like it? Hell no. But to assert that hip-hop is not music, or that it takes no talent or creativity to make is blatantly wrong.

[Strat335]

As much fun as it has been to hear the views of a vulgar athiest 21 year old who thinks he's God ....assuming to know A world view, much less mine, I'm going to have to ask you to go back to your vulgar young life and stop barking my way. Puppy. When you grow up, maybe you can see how ludicrous you are talking to someone almost 50 about their world view, based on what they think is musical or not, or based on ANYTHING.
Now piss off before you piss me off.





quote=JazzHessian;5324282]It's not because you have an opinion. It's because you have one that's based on your very limited experiences for the sole reason that they support your world view.

The arrogance that it takes to write off an entire musical tradition (and like it or not, it's a musical tradition) has no place in any sort of constructive dialogue about music.

Do you have to like it? Hell no. But to assert that hip-hop is not music, or that it takes no talent or creativity to make is blatantly wrong.[/quote]

[JazzHessian]

As much fun as it has been to hear the views of a vulgar athiest 21 year old who thinks he's God ....assuming to know A world view, much less mine, I'm going to have to ask you to go back to your vulgar young life and stop barking my way. Puppy. When you grow up, maybe you can see how ludicrous you are talking to someone almost 50 about their world view, based on what they think is musical or not, or based on ANYTHING.
Now piss off before you piss me off.

Ahahahaha. Classy. I especially like the "vulgar young life" bit. Haven't been to prison yet, though.

[madvek]

I haven't read all 8 pages, so excuse me if it's already been referenced:

Regardless of the genre, I agree with Duke Ellington's statement:
“There are two kinds of music. Good music, and the other kind.”

I like to think that as a musician, and as a person, it's good to keep an open mind. There is good and "other" music of any genre you want to look at. As someone who is slightly on the wrong side of 50, I assume many who write off rap as a whole are in my general age group. Every generation has to roll there eyes when the old folks call their music crap. I did. You probably did too. You probably thought you would never be as out of touch as those old folks too, right? Looked in the mirror lately?

IMHO The most vital music of any era is made by youth's raw energy, using the latest cutting edge tools available to them at that time whether it's a fiddle, saxophone, a Stratocaster or a laptop.

Who knows, in 20 years instead of bars hosting blues jams filled with old white guys in bowling shirts, playing music first played by African Americans 70 years earlier... Will we see 50 year old white guys with boutique chains around their neck and vintage stanton turntables getting down? I wouldn't be surprised...

[gkoelling]

As much fun as it has been to hear the views of a vulgar athiest 21 year old who thinks he's God ....assuming to know A world view, much less mine, I'm going to have to ask you to go back to your vulgar young life and stop barking my way. Puppy. When you grow up, maybe you can see how ludicrous you are talking to someone almost 50 about their world view, based on what they think is musical or not, or based on ANYTHING.
Now piss off before you piss me off.



Puppies? Nah! I think it's more like camping with a swarm of mosquitos in the tent. You can kill most of them but there'll still be one buzzing in your ear while you're trying to sleep.

[JazzHessian]

Hey, if the best you guys can come up with in a discussion are jabs about my age, go right ahead. I'm not so insecure to think my youth means anything outside of the fact that I'm far more familiar with new forms of music than people twice my age.

Maybe when you guys grow up, you'll see how ludicrous it is to try to put down an entire generation of young musicians when your own parents did the same to rock and roll.

[JazzHessian]

I haven't read all 8 pages, so excuse me if it's already been referenced:

Regardless of the genre, I agree with Duke Ellington's statement:
“There are two kinds of music. Good music, and the other kind.”

I like to think that as a musician, and as a person, it's good to keep an open mind. There is good and "other" music of any genre you want to look at. As someone who is slightly on the wrong side of 50, I assume many who write off rap as a whole are in my general age group. Every generation has to roll there eyes when the old folks call their music crap. I did. You probably did too. You probably thought you would never be as out of touch as those old folks too, right? Looked in the mirror lately?

IMHO The most vital music of any era is made by youth's raw energy, using the latest cutting edge tools available to them at that time whether it's a fiddle, saxophone, a Stratocaster or a laptop.

Who knows, in 20 years instead of bars hosting blues jams filled with old white guys in bowling shirts, playing music first played by African Americans 70 years earlier... Will we see 50 year old white guys with boutique chains around their neck and vintage stanton turntables getting down? I wouldn't be surprised...

This is definitely worth restating.

[Strat335]

Brad, it's not just your age. It's your self-importance. You are going to have to live a lot and lose a whole lot to see that you are not the center of the universe. I read your page and your last two blogs. It's a great time for you to be alive, don't be so down on old folks, or old views, you'll be there some day.
You might have missed where I liked the message of Arrested Development and told the man that, or conceded that I had not heard all of the genre....but I don't have time to pursue it. My time is running out.
I hope you aren't as close minded as you think I am when you are my age, but I also hope you hold on to what is important to you, as I am doing. I guarantee you it will be different than what you think now.



Hey, if the best you guys can come up with in a discussion are jabs about my age, go right ahead. I'm not so insecure to think my youth means anything outside of the fact that I'm far more familiar with new forms of music than people twice my age.

Maybe when you guys grow up, you'll see how ludicrous it is to try to put down an entire generation of young musicians when your own parents did the same to rock and roll.

[JazzHessian]

Brad, it's not just your age. It's your self-importance. You are going to have to live a lot and lose a whole lot to see that you are not the center of the universe. I read your page and your last two blogs. It's a great time for you to be alive, don't be so down on old folks, or old views, you'll be there some day.
You might have missed where I liked the message of Arrested Development and told the man that, or conceded that I had not heard all of the genre....but I don't have time to pursue it. My time is running out.
I hope you aren't as close minded as you think I am when you are my age, but I also hope you hold on to what is important to you, as I am doing. I guarantee you it will be different than what you think now.

To be fair, even the latest of those blogs was from nearly two years ago. The most recent one was written solely for the purpose of getting a rise out of people because I was bored.

At any rate, it's not about self-importance. I'm speaking on behalf of my friends and colleagues in the hip-hop world who might not even be around if it wasn't for music. These folks use their talent and creativity to create music in ways that, even as a producer, I'm still trying to learn about.

It's incredibly important to me to make sure that my views on music can never be called "old". As someone who produces music, it's an essential part of the job. And as a musician, even though I'm just a small part of youth movement in an increasingly fickle music business, I strive to make sure my art keeps progressing - to me, it's a matter of practicing what I preach. So I have to take issue with any mindset that doesn't respect the potential for innovation in any and every possible way. Even ways that seem unnatural or unfamiliar.

I take no personal issue with anyone in this thread. But this is something that I take seriously, so you'll have to excuse me if the way I convey my ideas seems excessive. I just think it's a worthwhile cause.

[TNJ]

There's a whole lot of music out there...

Music?

Music???

Music?????


(Jim Mora inspired rant)
:D

S.j

[JPF]

You have no idea of the dues I've paid, JPF.

That ten days is of course not the extent of my exposure.....but it was constant..you evidently don't know how long ten days and nights can be. lol And I am an expert at knowing what I think sucks and what I think doesn't. I've been hearing it since the 80s when it started getting popular, I've heard enough to form an opinion. I didn't come on this board to hurt anyone's feelings or piss anyone off or to get brow beaten for having an opinion, I realize rap is popular and I am in the minority, or at least I'm one of the few who will say what they believe because of the thought police, and PC police. I will join their silent crowd now, I see it's not worth it. No offense meant, personally.Hey, that was tongue-in-cheek on my part, strat - I apologise if my comment came across as callous or dismissive, which wasn't my intention at all. You've got to admit, though - claiming ten days in jail as a master's in rap is humorous in a (good) way. ;) Well, I thought it was clever of you, at any rate.

Rap definitely isn't in the stars for me either, although some of the tracks and clips posted here have made me think twice about being as dismissive of the genre as I've been to date. Let's just say that it's perhaps not best represented by what one is assaulted with on tv and in cinema - it's good to see and hear that there are other, less assaulting and in-your-face approaches. Live and learn, I guess. Cool thread, though - I laughed and learned, and trust I didn't piss anyone off too much in the process...

[Peppy]

Have something useful to add to the discussion? Maybe you could enlighten us with your apparently deep understanding of the ethic, the musical traditions, and the socio-economic factors that led to the rise of the hip-hop movement. I look forward to your contributions.

When you reconcile your blanket comment on "middle-age white dudes" from page 2 of this thread to your implied agreement with another poster on page 7 that someone may be racist. Even then, maybe I'll discuss, maybe not. My choice...I'm sure you'll agree.

[6Tones]

That was great!
lol

[gkoelling]

A young man wise beyond his years referred me to this wonderful rap video.

Enjoy.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6H0i1RAdHk&eurl=http://www.facebook.com/home.php

such wholesome entertainment!

[gkoelling]

Now that's funny.

And while we're on the topic of rap parody...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FArZxLj6DLk

You know what? I realize it's parody but as far as I know it's also reality.

"F*ck the c*ps.....Kill the c*ps, etc.

An earlier post showed work by a rap artist and the next number on the youtube list was about the glories of killing a police man.

Here's where you have the opportunity to tell me how worthy rap music is and how much I should appreciate it.

Hey, go find a Bill Cosby piece saying how great rap is and how we really should kill cops.

I'd love to see that.

[gkoelling]

Here it is. Great stuff. Let's kill the cops....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiX7GTelTPM&feature=related

Rap, yeah, that's it..... art? no f***in way! Insurection is more like it.

Tell me, tell me all about how artistic and misunderstood your rap artists are.

These people don't even like who they are or where they came from. No pride, none at all.

They're ashamed of their heritage as far as Im can see.

BB, Albert and Freddie should be shedding tears at this and they're the ones who paid the price, not these guys.

[airwarrior]

BB, Albert and Freddie should be shedding tears at this and they're the ones who paid the price, not these guys.

They should cry about all of the shitty covers or "Born Under a Bad Sign" first.

[Bassomatic]

Why is it so difficult for you to understand? Nobody is defending killing cops or even rapping about killing cops. Let me try to break it down for you:

Not all rap is good.

Not all rap is bad.

Nobody is saying it is all good, but you and a few others are saying it is *all* bad. How can you possibly defend that position? ...

Exactly.

[OldSchool]

Uncivilized and noisy?

http://www.jostleband.com/news/beatles_cavern.jpg

I count 3 instruments in that Pic.......whats your point?

[OldSchool]

Good point. Not only that, but you're not allowed to dislike it or hate it based on everything you hear of it, because you haven't searched diligently to find some that isn't uncivilized and noisy crap. You are just an old curmudgeon for not liking something, didn't you know that GK? But the hate and vulgarity is allowed to represent, and it's "art." Seems a little hypocritical to me, too.
There may very well be some great poets in rap, I wish they would just sell poetry books instead of me having to hear it blasting out of a car at the intersection. Don't want to ask them to turn it down so you can think, you might get shot for dissing their poetry.

ok...I'm done. The OP's deal was funny.

:agreePretty much sums it up........The Star Wars deal was well done though. http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon14.gif

[OldSchool]

Here it is. Great stuff. Let's kill the cops....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiX7GTelTPM&feature=related

Rap, yeah, that's it..... art? no f***in way! Insurection is more like it.

Tell me, tell me all about how artistic and misunderstood your rap artists are.

These people don't even like who they are or where they came from. No pride, none at all.

They're ashamed of their heritage as far as Im can see.

BB, Albert and Freddie should be shedding tears at this and they're the ones who paid the price, not these guys.

You just made my Top 3 TGP posters Gary.........:AOK

[BoyWearingVans]

young boys, quit defending hip hop. it will defend itself, look at the charts.

old men, start calling it hip hop. Then go crank up a "sing" album.

[Bassomatic]

You just made my Top 3 TGP posters Gary.........:AOK

bait away, O master baiter.

[JazzHessian]

That's weird - you wrote a sensible response to my post, and then you deleted it and wrote this. Bill Cosby? What on earth are you talking about?

Why is it so difficult for you to understand? Nobody is defending killing cops or even rapping about killing cops. Let me try to break it down for you:

Not all rap is good.

Not all rap is bad.

Nobody is saying it is all good, but you and a few others are saying it is *all* bad. How can you possibly defend that position? How can you claim that *all* rap is about killing cops and such things when many, many exaples to the contrary have been posted? It a completely illogical and indefensible position.

This.

[jjboogie]

You play in Arrested Development?! How long have you been in the band? I saw you guys about 5 years ago. Great show.


I have been with the band coming up on four years as far as touring with them and being a member.

I have been doing some sparse studio stints and live shows since 1999 though.

Where did you see the show?

[OldSchool]

bait away, O master baiter.


Oh yes!! a Top 10 comeback line from vintage 2001 harmony central! :crazy

[OldSchool]

Look, you obviously have made up your mind and no facts to the contrary are going to change that. All rap is about killing cops, all rappers are talentless, etc.. It's kind of futile to keep pointing you to creative, talented, rap artists with a positive message, isn't it? Nothing seems to penetrate.


I tried to do that with my OP so relax. And its not all about Killing cops.......most of it includes the degration of women, Domestic abuse , and sends the message that without money and a fancy car you are worthless. So see ..........some of us Can see the big picture. ;):AOK

[pickaguitar]

I think the 'bait away' comeback is pretty sweet!

[OldSchool]

I think the 'bait away' comeback is pretty sweet!

Cool. Cruise Harmony for 100's more.......... http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon12.gifhttp://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon14.gif

I'm more about defending a posistion of a conversation . Its when people get frustrated they resort to the HC comments. Been there done that........the "master " as he put it.

[JazzHessian]

And its not all about Killing cops.......most of it includes the degration of women, Domestic abuse , and sends the message that without money and a fancy car you are worthless.

... but that's just blatantly wrong. Have you even read the thread? Why bother arguing about something you very clearly know nothing about?

[OldSchool]

... but that's just blatantly wrong. Have you even read the thread? Why bother arguing about something you very clearly know nothing about?

Read the thread? I started it!(What that means I really don't know......http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon11.gif) The Star wars thing was very entertaining and well done. And don't say I know nothing about it. I know I have a different opinion then you as do many many others here. That does not make you all knowing on the subject. I also know alot about a ton of other subjects I don't partically care for. so whats your point?

[jjboogie]

Actually, I just checked the archives. It was 2005 I saw you guys at the Calgary Folk Festival.

Yes, folks, a hip-hop group at a folk festival! Not at all uncommon around these parts, actually. In the broadest sense of the term, it *is* folk music. Strangely, I don't recall hearing anything about killing cops.


Ah yeah that was one of my early gigs with the group.......our drummers baby daughter had a bad asthma attack right before our flight and he ended up not making the gig. I ended up playing both drums and guitar!

I don't know if you recall seeing the guitarist running back and forth on stage from Guitar to drums....guitar to drums!

That was a tough gig but fun! I can't wait to get back up there!

[JazzHessian]

Read the thread? I started it!(What that means I really don't know......http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon11.gif) The Star wars thing was very entertaining and well done. And don't say I know nothing about it. I know I have a different opinion then you as do many many others here. That does not make you all knowing on the subject. I also know alot about a ton of other subjects I don't partically care for. so whats your point?

I want you to read this next sentence carefully:

If you think most rap and hip-hop is about violence and materialism, then you truly do not know anything about it.

It's not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of factual accuracy. And your statement is completely inaccurate. You would know this if you had spent time critically listening to enough rap and hip-hop to give you anywhere near an accurate cross-section of the genre as a whole. Until you've done that, you're speaking out of ignorance.

If the only rock bands I'd heardwere Nickelback, Creed, Staind, and Puddle of Mudd, do you think I'd have listened to enough rock music to make a comment like "all rock sounds the same!" Of course not! So why, in your limited experience with hip-hop, do you feel you can dismiss it entirely?

[BIGGERSTAFF]

I've never understood the attraction of writing off entire genres of music with sweeping statements like "I hate _________". Personally, I dislike about 95% of the rap/hip-hop I've heard, but I could never close my mind entirely because I have heard some really good stuff too.

To each his own, I guess.


If I dislike 95% of a genre, I'm not going to go looking for the other 5%, just to see if I may like it.

[JazzHessian]

If I dislike 95% of a genre, I'm not going to go looking for the other 5%, just to see if I may like it.

So you've heard 95% of hip-hop, eh? Impressive feat.

[JazzHessian]

I have two points, Brad. One, what kind of rap do you listen to? Do you turn off what I would consider vile lyrics? Truthfully. Who is your favorite rap artist, and reading your blog, don't you call pretty much for anarchy? You know, so bright folks like you can wait until everyone with no control kills themselves off?

and two,

Ragland, and rock and roll might have pissed parents off, but it never accounted for being the ONLY music listened to by one group with statistics like these. This is from the Houston Chronicle (one of the most liberal rag in existence probably) headlines this week. I bolded the high point for me... a 139% increase in the number of killers....can you tell me what 100% of these killers lisen to? 100%. The study found that Houston topped a list of 28 cities, with a 139 percent increase in the number of young black men (ages 14-24) suspected in killings between 2000-01 and 2006-07. 100%, Brad. 100% of these guys listen to rap. Never in the history of the world that I know of has their been a genre of "music" for killers and rapists and pimps and whores and thieves and baby daddys to glom on to support their degradation. The good rap (that I know is out there somewhere) doesn't outweigh the crap rap, IMHO.

I can't wait until they and you are in your 50s, arguing with young folks over whether sheep screwing and cannabilism is artistic expression or just young folks bleating about their problems. Cause I mean, how much lower can it go than raping and pillaging and murder? Yes, there are some good poets out there that say uplifting things. But that isn't where the big money is, or the way it's going....it's going like this. Kenny Chesney pisses me off, but he doesn't offend me.


------------------------------------------------------
Their request came one day after Police Chief Harold Hurtt's call for churches, schools, businesses and others to join his department in finding ways to battle bloodshed at the hands of young African-American males. A recent study found Houston at the top of a list of 28 major cities in at least one measure of youth violence.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mayor Bill White declined Wednesday to appoint a violence commission or task force to examine a startling jump in homicides by young black men in Houston the past few years.
Local black pastors had called Tuesday for city officials to create a task force or expert panel during an emotional meeting in Sunnyside. But White said he would wait to hear ideas from black community leaders, casting himself as their "servant." Police Chief Harold Hurtt will meet with the ministers next week.
White said solutions to black-on-black violence had to come from the community itself: "I don't want to be a distraction for people thinking the mayor or the governor or the president-elect can be a substitute for people next door, in the church, or in the classroom."
The Rev. Robert Jefferson, of the Houston Ministers Against Crime, said he was surprised by the mayor's response.
"We need someone to study the problem. It's getting worse. It's unacceptable," said Jefferson, the pastor of Cullen Missionary Baptist Church. "He helped the victims in Katrina, I guess, because it was a popular thing at the time, but we have victims on a daily basis. We're a Katrina every day. Our boys are getting killed."

Houston leads nation

The Rev. James Nash said he was OK with the mayor putting the onus back onto community members.

"What the mayor would like us to do was put something together and bring it to him," Nash said. "The mayor's going to back us, whatever we do."
The study found that Houston topped a list of 28 cities, with a 139 percent increase in the number of young black men (ages 14-24) suspected in killings between 2000-01 and 2006-07. The number of young black men who were murdered in Houston during those periods also jumped, from 42 to 129.

Like I said in my previous post (did you even read it?), the blog was written two years ago to get a rise out of people. Evidently, it worked. Moving on.

I'm not sure what kind of point you're trying to prove with the study. A correlation is not the same as causation. You can't prove that rap causes violence because the fact is, it doesn't. A similar study could show that 100% of the perpetrators of all hate crimes in Alabama between 1920 and 1960 listened to country music. What does that statistic mean? Nothing.

All art is is a means of expression. Your reality is different than than, say, a client of mine who lives in the Humbolt Park neighborhood and can't go outside at night because of gang violence, so to ask you to understand his reality is a bit of a stretch. But nobody has the credence to say anything "isn't art" simply because it portrays something they don't agree with.

Rap and hip-hop can indeed be aggressive. But they were born out of the same spirit as punk rock - that there is something wrong with society, and while they might be on the fringe, they too deserve to be heard. Rappers changed the face of the music industry because they spoke for a segment of society that had no voice. These people are poor, are discriminated against, and they live in fear of not just the police, but each other. Yes, there are many rappers out there who glorify money, or rap about killing cops. But for every rapper like that, there are the artists who were kept off the streets by music. They stayed inside and played around with the only musical media their family could afford, which in many cases was just a turntable. Their music is steeped in the traditions of the negro spirituals, the Black Arts movement, and soul music - art that was intended as a means of protest.

I don't expect you to understand this, but you at least have to respect that it's a reality different from yours, and their art stems from that reality. I'd tell you to listen to Talib Kweli, Busdriver, Saul Williams, Blackalicious, All Natural, Black Star, The Roots, Caedence Weapon, Dalek, among many others... but you probably won't. So in that case, can you just accept that hip-hop is a geniune means of artistic expression which cannot possibly be entirely dismissed as not being music?

[airwarrior]

Strat335-


You know, back in the day, all the murderers and rapists had to listen to was blues and country. I wonder how they got by?

:dunno

[Strat335]

"So in that case, can you just accept that hip-hop is a geniune means of artistic expression which cannot possibly be entirely dismissed as not being music?"

Yep. Some of it takes talent and there might be some poor great artists out there with something good to say, or feeling the blues for their plight and said in a rap to bemoan their way.
But the popular form I hear is mostly just the worst vile crap ever perpetrated on a culture. So then, we agree, all done.

[JazzHessian]

CW and I are from the same town - Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. It's really nice to see him getting some recognition down south. He's a class act.

Got one of his albums in at the radio station I used to work at - been a fan ever since. Great stuff, for sure.

[bigpat13]

"Raw, Ima give it to ya, with no trivia
raw like cocaine straight form Bolivia
My hip-hop will rock and shock the nation
like the Emancipation Proclamation"

Wu-Tang will change your life, on! HAHAHAHA!!!

[Nimrod11477]

This topic got a little more serious since I posted last, so I think I'll try to lighten the mood with a link to Bill Maher's rap translation everyone can enjoy..... unless you don't like Bill Maher of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pm2wTGgYAw

[Bassomatic]

Oh yes!! a Top 10 comeback line from vintage 2001 harmony central! :crazy

I play to the room, to quote Matte.:p

[Bassomatic]

I'm more about defending a posistion of a conversation . Its when people get frustrated they resort to the HC comments. Been there done that........the "master " as he put it.

Let's be real for just a sec: The thread was intentionally labeled to stir up the maximum amount of sh*t (which you as much as acknowledged in an earlier post):

Wow this went off Track.........but I guess my thread title didn't help.........

As it began to wind down of its own accord, you start serial posting to stir up the hornets nest afresh. Talk about HC tactics.

I thought you were an Officer of the Peace?

[Bassomatic]

Read the thread? I started it!(What that means I really don't know......http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon11.gif)

See my previous post.:horse

[gkoelling]

i tried to do that with my op so relax. And its not all about killing cops.......most of it includes the degration of women, domestic abuse , and sends the message that without money and a fancy car you are worthless. So see ..........some of us can see the big picture. ;):aok


lol!!!!

[OldSchool]

I have two points, Brad. One, what kind of rap do you listen to? Do you turn off what I would consider vile lyrics? Truthfully. Who is your favorite rap artist, and reading your blog, don't you call pretty much for anarchy? You know, so bright folks like you can wait until everyone with no control kills themselves off?

and two,

Ragland, and rock and roll might have pissed parents off, but it never accounted for being the ONLY music listened to by one group with statistics like these. This is from the Houston Chronicle (one of the most liberal rag in existence probably) headlines this week. I bolded the high point for me... a 139% increase in the number of killers....can you tell me what 100% of these killers lisen to? 100%. The study found that Houston topped a list of 28 cities, with a 139 percent increase in the number of young black men (ages 14-24) suspected in killings between 2000-01 and 2006-07. 100%, Brad. 100% of these guys listen to rap. Never in the history of the world that I know of has there been a genre of "music" for killers and rapists and pimps and whores and thieves and baby daddys to glom on to support their degradation. The good rap (that I know is out there somewhere) doesn't outweigh the crap rap, IMHO.

I can't wait until they and you are in your 50s, arguing with young folks over whether sheep screwing and cannabilism is artistic expression or just young folks bleating about their problems. Cause I mean, how much lower can it go than raping and pillaging and murder? Yes, there are some good poets out there that say uplifting things. But that isn't where the big money is, or the way it's going....it's going like this. Kenny Chesney pisses me off, but he doesn't offend me.


------------------------------------------------------
Their request came one day after Police Chief Harold Hurtt's call for churches, schools, businesses and others to join his department in finding ways to battle bloodshed at the hands of young African-American males. A recent study found Houston at the top of a list of 28 major cities in at least one measure of youth violence.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mayor Bill White declined Wednesday to appoint a violence commission or task force to examine a startling jump in homicides by young black men in Houston the past few years.
Local black pastors had called Tuesday for city officials to create a task force or expert panel during an emotional meeting in Sunnyside. But White said he would wait to hear ideas from black community leaders, casting himself as their "servant." Police Chief Harold Hurtt will meet with the ministers next week.
White said solutions to black-on-black violence had to come from the community itself: "I don't want to be a distraction for people thinking the mayor or the governor or the president-elect can be a substitute for people next door, in the church, or in the classroom."
The Rev. Robert Jefferson, of the Houston Ministers Against Crime, said he was surprised by the mayor's response.
"We need someone to study the problem. It's getting worse. It's unacceptable," said Jefferson, the pastor of Cullen Missionary Baptist Church. "He helped the victims in Katrina, I guess, because it was a popular thing at the time, but we have victims on a daily basis. We're a Katrina every day. Our boys are getting killed."

Houston leads nation

The Rev. James Nash said he was OK with the mayor putting the onus back onto community members.

"What the mayor would like us to do was put something together and bring it to him," Nash said. "The mayor's going to back us, whatever we do."
The study found that Houston topped a list of 28 cities, with a 139 percent increase in the number of young black men (ages 14-24) suspected in killings between 2000-01 and 2006-07. The number of young black men who were murdered in Houston during those periods also jumped, from 42 to 129.


OUCH. Slam dunk.......Time to move on. :boxer

[OldSchool]

Like I said in my previous post (did you even read it?), the blog was written two years ago to get a rise out of people. Evidently, it worked.

Oh......I get it, your really a peace loving dude who just loves 5% of a hate culture that's supposedly good. And you call for anarchy and hate........but its just a Joke, you didn't mean it. :rolleyes:

Yo Yo, That's just whack bro.........

[airwarrior]

This thread brings some epic lulz.

[OldSchool]

=Bassomatic; Let's be real for just a sec: The thread was intentionally labeled to stir up the maximum amount of sh*t (which you as much as acknowledged in an earlier post):

That was not the intention of the post. I later read the title and admitted that it could be read that way but that was NOT the original intention.




As it began to wind down of its own accord, you start serial posting to stir up the hornets nest afresh. Talk about HC tactics.


Wrong again bro. Doesn't it get tiring? I read several comments that I agreed with. Sorry if it pisses you off that I acknowledged that.


I thought you were an Officer of the Peace ?
And that has what to do with thread? I mean I could have posted about how many people I've arrested and caught doing unmentionable things........while Crazy Rap is being played. How many Gang Members , how many LOST SOULS I've seen all listening to RAP.......not a Beatles song. But I didn't........So whats your point again?

[airwarrior]

Holy crap! Do you honestly think there was no such thing as crime before rap came along?

**Facepalm**

[OldSchool]

Holy crap! Do you honestly think there was no such thing as crime before rap came along?

**Facepalm**


Well......not crime you could dance to anyways........http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon12.gif

Kinda like West side story......http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon10.gif

[JazzHessian]

Oh......I get it, your really a peace loving dude who just loves 5% of a hate culture that's supposedly good. And you call for anarchy and hate........but its just a Joke, you didn't mean it. :rolleyes:

Yo Yo, That's just whack bro.........

Why don't you read and respond to the rest of my post?

Here, I'll make it easy for you, since reading comprehension seems to be one of the many things that eludes you:

I'm not sure what kind of point you're trying to prove with the study. A correlation is not the same as causation. You can't prove that rap causes violence because the fact is, it doesn't. A similar study could show that 100% of the perpetrators of all hate crimes in Alabama between 1920 and 1960 listened to country music. What does that statistic mean? Nothing.

All art is is a means of expression. Your reality is different than than, say, a client of mine who lives in the Humbolt Park neighborhood and can't go outside at night because of gang violence, so to ask you to understand his reality is a bit of a stretch. But nobody has the credence to say anything "isn't art" simply because it portrays something they don't agree with.

Rap and hip-hop can indeed be aggressive. But they were born out of the same spirit as punk rock - that there is something wrong with society, and while they might be on the fringe, they too deserve to be heard. Rappers changed the face of the music industry because they spoke for a segment of society that had no voice. These people are poor, are discriminated against, and they live in fear of not just the police, but each other. Yes, there are many rappers out there who glorify money, or rap about killing cops. But for every rapper like that, there are the artists who were kept off the streets by music. They stayed inside and played around with the only musical media their family could afford, which in many cases was just a turntable. Their music is steeped in the traditions of the negro spirituals, the Black Arts movement, and soul music - art that was intended as a means of protest.

I don't expect you to understand this, but you at least have to respect that it's a reality different from yours, and their art stems from that reality. I'd tell you to listen to Talib Kweli, Busdriver, Saul Williams, Blackalicious, All Natural, Black Star, The Roots, Caedence Weapon, Dalek, among many others... but you probably won't. So in that case, can you just accept that hip-hop is a geniune means of artistic expression which cannot possibly be entirely dismissed as not being music?

Although I guess it's more fun to cherry pick what supports your own half-cocked ideas. Wouldn't want to ruin that for you.

[JazzHessian]

Oh, and OldSchool, what happened to that track you were going to cut for us? It was just rap, it should have only taken you a few minutes!

[aram]

that video was pretty awesome.

as far as you who are dissing rap- it's one thing if you don't like it.

but if you don't like it, that doesn't mean it's bad.

just look back at the time when you're parent told you the beatles or zep or whatever was noise.

and you said to yourself, "they just don't get it."

now you're acting like your parents.

ha!
yo.

[zombywoof]

Cute video but I only lasted less than 30 seconds before I shut it off.

Ya can call me close minded -don't really care.

[Frater B]

Always thought I'm the Slime was an early rap song......

I think if you like all kinds of different music, world , jazz, folk, etc...
there is certainly some rap you might like. If you are happy still listening
to classic rock or one genre or style probably not.

__

[russ6100]

JazzHessian wrote:
...Yes, there are many rappers out there who glorify money, or rap about killing cops. But for every rapper like that, there are the artists who were kept off the streets by music...So, you really think it's a 1:1 ratio? I'd feel safe in stating that the vast majority of rap music is about the thug lifestyle. The non-thug stuff represents a tiny minority of the genre. In fact, if I was so inclined, I bet that for every non-thuglike rap CD you could cite as an example, I could point to 10 thug-life glorifying CDs.

I also believe that people have the right to sing / rap about *anything* (and I do mean anything!) that they want.

For me, about the only rap I can get with is the stuff that makes me laugh.
:D:D:D:D

[JazzHessian]

JazzHessian wrote:
So, you really think it's a 1:1 ratio? I'd feel safe in stating that the vast majority of rap music is about the thug lifestyle. The non-thug stuff represents a tiny minority of the genre. In fact, if I was so inclined, I bet that for every non-thuglike rap CD you could cite as an example, I could point to 10 thug-life glorifying CDs.

In my experience? I've known a lot of the guys who rap about the money, the bitches, what have you, but they're not exactly serious about making music. These are the guys who mess around with Fruity Loops in their basement and set up a MySpace, and that's the extent of their musical careers.

And the vast majority of them aren't even "thugs". I tend to go by Immortal Technique's definition - "if you never killed a cop, you ain't a mother****ing thug yet."

I'd say if you look at the guys who have more than one actual release, it's probably a 3:1 ratio. This is obviously heavily obscured by the mainstream, but the mainstream tends to mess things up for music in general. Personally, I think the quality of the good stuff outweighs the other nonsense out there.

I also believe that people have the right to sing / rap about *anything* (and I do mean anything!) that they want.

Agreed. But freedom of speech isn't so big in a lot of circles these days.

[OldSchool]

Why don't you read and respond to the rest of my post?

But I did. I even went as far to read your Anarchy Blog. You didn't seem to want to discuss that. I think you said " Moving on"? :huh Funny how you only want to discuss want YOU want to discuss. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE]
Although I guess it's more fun to cherry pick what supports your own half-cocked ideas.


Read my above post.........http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon12.gif

[russ6100]

JazzHessian wrote:
I'm tend to go by Immortal Technique's definition - "if you never killed a cop, you ain't a mother****ing thug yet."

I see. I guess I'm outta the loop nowadays. And here I thought that all I had to do was knock over a couple 7-11s, sling a little caine and slap some hos to be on dah real OG gangstah tip...

[OldSchool]

Oh, and OldSchool, what happened to that track you were going to cut for us? It was just rap, it should have only taken you a few minutes!


Please show me where I said that ? Just another example of you making stuff up to fit your argument.

I did just take a long Hot Dump though. I'm sorry I didn't record it........I just ate some meatloaf and Mashed Potatoes, gimmie about 2 hours and I'll see what I can come up with for ya........:munch

[OldSchool]

JazzHessian wrote:


I see. I guess I'm outta the loop nowadays. And here I thought that all I had to do was knock over a couple 7-11s, sling a little caine and slap some hos to be on dah real OG gangstah tip...


siiiiiiiiiiiiiit Yo , You tripping ! Don't make me get all Gangstah on yo azz..........http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Hootad Binky]

Regardless what one thinks aboiut it, Rap/Hip Hop are an extremely successful form of (initially) African American music:



Percent of Total Sales

1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006

Rock 32.5 25.7 25.2 24.8 24.4 24.7 25.2 23.9 31.5 34.0

Rap and Hip-Hop 10.1 9.7 10.8 12.9 11.4 13.8 13.3 12.1 13.3 11.4

R&B and Urban 11.2 12.8 10.5 9.7 10.6 11.2 10.6 11.3 10.2 11.0

Country 14.4 14.1 10.8 10.7 10.5 10.7 10.4 13.0 12.5 13.0

Pop 9.4 10.0 10.3 11.0 12.1 9.0 8.9 10.0 8.1 7.1

Religious 4.5 6.3 5.1 4.8 6.7 6.7 5.8 6.0 5.3 5.5

Classical 2.8 3.3 3.5 2.7 3.2 3.1 3.0 2.0 2.4 1.9

Jazz 2.8 1.9 3.0 2.9 3.4 3.2 2.9 2.7 1.8 2.0

Soundtracks 1.2 1.7 0.8 0.7 1.4 1.1 1.4 1.1 0.9 0.8

Oldies 0.8 0.7 0.7 0.9 0.8 0.9 1.3 1.4 1.1 1.1

New Age 0.8 0.6 0.5 0.5 1.0 0.5 0.5 1.0 0.4 0.3

Children's 0.9 0.4 0.4 0.6 0.5 0.4 0.6 2.8 2.3 2.9

Other* 5.7 7.9 9.1 8.3 7.9 8.1 7.6 8.9 8.5 7.3

*Includes Big Band, Broadway Shows, Comedy, Contemporary, Electronic, EMO, Ethnic, Exercise, Folk, Gothic, Grunge, Holiday Music, House Music, Humor, Instrumental, Language, Latin, Love Songs, Mix, Modern, Ska, Spoken Word, Standards, Swing, Top 40, and Trip-Hop.

Source: Recording Industry Association of America.

http://encarta.msn.com/xImages/trans.gif

[Hootad Binky]

I'd feel safe in stating that the vast majority of rap music is about the thug lifestyle
Really?


Derived Styles


Acid rap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_rap)
Alternative hip hop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_hip_hop)
Bounce music (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounce_music)
Christian hip hop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_hip_hop)
Comedy hip hop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comedy_hip_hop)
Conscious hip hop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscious_hip_hop)
Contemporary R&B (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_R%26B)**
Country-rap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country-rap)
Crunk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crunk)
Dirty rap and Pornocore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_rap_and_Pornocore)
Electro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro_music)*
Electro-hop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro-hop)*
Freestyle music (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freestyle_music)
Freestyle rap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freestyle_rap)
Funk carioca (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funk_carioca)
Gangsta rap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangsta_rap)
Ghetto house (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghetto_house)
Ghettotech (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghettotech)*
Grime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grime_%28music%29)*
Hardcore hip hop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardcore_hip_hop)
Hip hop soul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_hop_soul)***
Hip house (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_house)*
Horrorcore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horrorcore)
Hyphy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyphy)
Indie hip hop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indie_hip_hop)
Instrumental hip hop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumental_hip_hop)
Jazz rap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_rap)
Mafioso rap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafioso_rap)
Merenhouse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merenhouse)*
Neo soul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_soul)
Nerdcore hip hop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerdcore_hip_hop)
New jack swing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_jack_swing)
Pop-rap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop-rap)**
Political hip hop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_hip_hop)
Ragga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragga)
Rap rock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rap_rock)

Rapcore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapcore)
Rap metal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rap_metal)


Swing hip-hop (SWAP) (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Swing_Hip_Hop&action=edit&redlink=1)
Snap music (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snap_music)
Turntablism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turntablism)

[russ6100]

Hootad Binky wrote:
Really?Yeah. Those sub-genre wiki definitions were cute and all....but how big a slice of the pie do they represent?

Like in your own figures here:
Rap and Hip-Hop 10.1 9.7 10.8 12.9 11.4 13.8 13.3 12.1 13.3 11.4 Seriously, out of those sales figures, how much of that was non-thug stuff?
I bet not much.
Also, a whole bunch of those "derived styles" would fall under the "thug" category.

Listen, like I said earlier, I believe that people have the right to rap / sing about what they please. It's this argument that there is all this non-thug rap making up a large portion of the market share that I find disingenuous.

[OldSchool]

Show me 1 mainstream Rap video that doesn't have a fancy Ride, a guy holding a lot of money wearing a ton of jewelry, or women dressed like sluts being completely disrespected.

You might come up with one........but its going to be difficult and you know it.

[TehSuperFox]

Show me 1 mainstream Rap video that doesn't have a fancy Ride, a guy holding a lot of money wearing a ton of jewelry, or women dressed like sluts being completely disrespected.

You might come up with one........but its going to be difficult and you know it.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4893463166633323841

I didn't have any trouble, this is the first song that came to my mind.

[TehSuperFox]

And another: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo7FpI8MmmE

[russ6100]

TehSuperFox wrote:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...63166633323841 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4893463166633323841)

I didn't have any trouble, this is the first song that came to my mind.

At 00:30, Mr. Fiasco references illegal activity, thereby disqualifying this video from entering the non-thug category. :D

Epic Fail! :D

[TehSuperFox]

Shall I continue? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHReQQnMVQo

EDIT: Sure. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HerpGwbLSM8

[russ6100]

LOL! Look at the last frame of the Lupe Fiasco vid showing on my browser! You might wanna quit while you're ahead! :D

http://www.russletson.com/images/vid_01.jpg

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/www.russletson.com/images/vid_01.jpg

[TehSuperFox]

LOL! Look at the last frame of the Lupe Fiasco vid showing on my browser! You might wanna quit while you're ahead! :D

While I'll admit that that's unfortunately ironic, that has nothing to do with the actual video itself. :AOK

[Bassomatic]

Show me 1 mainstream Rap video that doesn't have a fancy Ride, a guy holding a lot of money wearing a ton of jewelry, or women dressed like sluts being completely disrespected.

You might come up with one........but its going to be difficult and you know it.

Do you think their might be a connection between the african-american braggadocio and pseudo-macho swagger at the root of the rock and roll plant and the updated, urbanized african-american braggadocio and pseudo-macho swagger of the extreme forms of rap that Aging White America seems to be so afraid of?

Can you see the direct line that connects the two, forming an unbroken lineage?

Let's face it - if Bo Diddley's "Who Do You Love" had a video made for it back in the day, it might look pretty much exactly as you described.

The main difference would be the severity of the violence and twisted sexuality. If one compared a violent, sexualized flick from the 50's with the modern Hollywood equivalent, the differences in the extremity of the sex and violence would be just as extreme.

G-d forbid we should judge any genre by its worst, most base examples.

Liberace could represent Classical

Kenny G could represent Jazz

Hanson could represent Pop/Rock

Moby could represent Electronica

etc etc etc etc etc

Think about it beyond the surface of the music in question. Don't let intellectual laziness be your excuse.

[Bassomatic]

TehSuperFox wrote:


At 00:30, Mr. Fiasco references illegal activity, thereby disqualifying this video from entering the non-thug category. :D

Epic Fail! :D

What, "out there grinding, legally and illegally"?

Ozzie and Harriet would hardly take offense at that one.

Talk about grasping at straws.

[Bassomatic]

While I'll admit that that's unfortunately ironic, that has nothing to do with the actual video itself. :AOK

Ironic, yes!

Unfortunately? Only because some folks don't seem to have a well-developed sense of irony. Interpret that how you will (an epic failure to grasp the nuance of the thing, perhaps?).

[TehSuperFox]

Ironic, yes!

Unfortunately? Only because some folks don't seem to have a well-developed sense of irony. Interpret that how you will (an epic failure to grasp the nuance of the thing, perhaps?).

I definitely agree with your posts, but in russ6100's defense, I do think he was only joking.

[Bassomatic]

I definitely agree with your posts, but in russ6100's defense, I do think he was only joking.

Guess *I* need the irony gland checkup! My B!

(Overtired and a bit clueless to begin with...).

[russ6100]

Yep! Joking! You won't find me getting too serious in a thread like this. :D

[Turbo Gerbil]

Getting rid of "gangsta" rap does nothing to remove the violent surroundings that spawned it, and which it is a reflection of. I suspect that most people want to get rid of it because its easier to ignore the underlying social issues if you isolate yourself and never hear about it. Want to not hear gansta rap? Find a way to fix the social issues that create it in the first place.

[OldSchool]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4893463166633323841

I didn't have any trouble, this is the first song that came to my mind.


EPIC Fail! first 22 seconds they Zero in on a GOLD watch. Materialism at its worst , its killing this country...............next.

[OldSchool]

And another: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo7FpI8MmmE


Don't know WTF that one is about.........can't understand the words and the repetitiveness off the same rhythm through out is annoying. Repats over and over throughout..........horrible. and that Vocal thing in the middle , dang dang dang da da dang has been done a million times since the sugar hill gang. Pathetic. But your right, I didn't see anything negative except bad music. http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon14.gif

[OldSchool]

Here one for all the Kiddies out there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwiHP6w3QmY&feature=PlayList&p=5D0420156262ECEC&playnext=1&index=18

This one is actually kinda catchy............http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon10.gif

[rich2k4]

OldSchool

if you don't like the rap about sex and violence.

what do you think of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FSYRo-BpMs

[Scott Peterson]

I don't really like rap much, but that's a statement of personal preference and not some statement on anything else.

There are a lot of rap songs I like and rap artists I like. It just isn't my go-to genre for musical enjoyment is all. Nothing more or less.

Why everyone on the Net gets caught up in universal 'all or nothing' statements I do not understand. There's a lot of gray area.

[Bassomatic]

There's a lot of gray area.

You can say that again - and G-d bless it.

[Yngtchie]

My favourite rap video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xEzGIuY7kw

[Zero]

I like The Message and the 80's FUN rap. I still rock out to Bust A Move or Humpty Dance when it comes on the radio. When I began disliking it was when it's content got violent. Although I dug Cypress Hill's Aint Goin Out Like That 'cuz they sampled Sabbaths The Wizard.

[Chrome Dinette]

I like The Message and the 80's FUN rap. I still rock out to Bust A Move or Humpty Dance when it comes on the radio. When I began disliking it was when it's content got violent. Although I dug Cypress Hill's Aint Goin Out Like That 'cuz they sampled Sabbaths The Wizard.

I sort of have a similar position.

One of the reasons I like Kool Keith so much is because of his sarcastic take on the rest of the rap industry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bc5cOohfHhA

[TehSuperFox]

EPIC Fail! first 22 seconds they Zero in on a GOLD watch. Materialism at its worst , its killing this country...............next.

I'd hardly consider one frame of a gold watch an EPIC fail. It wasn't a chain or a fancy car or gold teeth or an under-dressed woman - it was a watch. It seems to me that you're just being extremely nitpicky to prove an overgeneralised statement.

Don't know WTF that one is about.........can't understand the words and the repetitiveness off the same rhythm through out is annoying. Repats over and over throughout..........horrible. and that Vocal thing in the middle , dang dang dang da da dang has been done a million times since the sugar hill gang. Pathetic. But your right, I didn't see anything negative except bad music. http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon14.gif

I didn't say I liked the song. I don't like it at all, as a matter of fact. But it fits your criteria.

I don't really like rap much, but that's a statement of personal preference and not some statement on anything else.

There are a lot of rap songs I like and rap artists I like. It just isn't my go-to genre for musical enjoyment is all. Nothing more or less.

Why everyone on the Net gets caught up in universal 'all or nothing' statements I do not understand. There's a lot of gray area.

I'm glad someone here knows how to voice an opinion without ignorant generalisations.

It's points like these that have been made one after another in this thread that some people just can't seem to grasp.

I'll say it once more; to say that you don't like rap/hip-hop is perfectly okay. But to say that it isn't music, requires no talent, and is based solely on violence and sex and drugs and money is just completely incorrect. Period.

I don't think I'm going to try to argue any more. There's obviously no point because some people just won't get it.

[JazzHessian]

But I did. I even went as far to read your Anarchy Blog. You didn't seem to want to discuss that. I think you said " Moving on"? :huh Funny how you only want to discuss want YOU want to discuss. :rolleyes:

Well, not only did I already respond to that (instead of ignoring the point entirely, which you seem to be a fan of), but it has no bearing whatsoever on the matter at hand. So if you want to keep deflecting to keep from admitting you're just plain wrong, fine. But you are wrong.

[JazzHessian]

It's this argument that there is all this non-thug rap making up a large portion of the market share that I find disingenuous.

Outside of some very isolated incidents, good music has never made up for a large portion of the market share in any genre.

[JazzHessian]

Please show me where I said that ? Just another example of you making stuff up to fit your argument.

I guess when all you do is talk a lot of shit, it's hard to remember exactly what you've said.

A little reminder:
Do you honestly think it takes no talent to perform rap and hip hop music? If that were true, then anyone could do it, and that simply isn't the case.

Sure it is. :dunno

Seriously, let's hear you record a rap song of comparable, professional quality. Anyone can do it, right? So put up or shut up.

[OldSchool]

Well, not only did I already respond to that (instead of ignoring the point entirely, which you seem to be a fan of), but it has no bearing whatsoever on the matter at hand. So if you want to keep deflecting to keep from admitting you're just plain wrong, fine. But you are wrong.

NOPE. That's where you are wrong Bro. There is no right or wrong and thats your problem. There is just your opinion and Mine. Deal with it. http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon12.gif

[OldSchool]

TehSuperFox; I'd hardly consider one frame of a gold watch an EPIC fail. It wasn't a chain or a fancy car or gold teeth or an under-dressed woman - it was a watch. It seems to me that you're just being extremely nitpicky to prove an overgeneralised statement.


Then please tell me IYO what was the close up of a fancy expensive Gold watch supposed to represent? What was the reason? It goes hand in hand with all of the above.

[OldSchool]

Seriously, let's hear you record a rap song of comparable, professional quality. Anyone can do it, right? So put up or shut up


Lamest argument on the Net^^^:rotflmao

So I suppose Howard Cosell never should have been a sports commentator because he wasn't an Athlete .........:rolleyes:

How about you? What makes you so qualified to comment on Rap? You say its good.......lets her some of your rhymes dog to prove your da man..........:munch

[Yngtchie]

How about you? What makes you so qualified to comment on Rap? You say its good.......lets her some of your rhymes dog to prove your da man..........:munchNow that is the lamest argument. He never said that anyone could do it, so why should he prove that he can?

[JazzHessian]

Lamest argument on the Net^^^:rotflmao

So I suppose Howard Cosell never should have been a sports commentator because he wasn't an Athlete .........:rolleyes:

How about you? What makes you so qualified to comment on Rap? You say its good.......lets her some of your rhymes dog to prove your da man..........:munch

Cosell never claimed it takes no talent to play sports.

The burden of proof is on you.

[OldSchool]

Outside of some very isolated incidents, good music has never made up for a large portion of the market share in any genre.

Really......The Beatles did pretty well for themselves. You really are reaching to try and prove a point that you never will. And you kinda admitted that most Rap is NOT good music. Good job. Lets move on. http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon12.gif

[JazzHessian]

Really......The Beatles did pretty well for themselves. You really are reaching to try and prove a point that you never will. And you kinda admitted that most Rap is NOT good music. Good job. Lets move on. http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon12.gif

The Beatles are one of the isolated incidents I mentioned. Hasn't been anyone like The Beatles since.

I've said many times before in this thread, most music in every genre is poor.

This is ridiculous. Every time you misread something you act like you've proved some sort of point.

[OldSchool]

Cosell never claimed it takes no talent to play sports.

The burden of proof is on you.

I never said he did counselor......:rolleyes: Are you telling me He NEVER criticized a team or a player? He never said anything negative about a sport in which he NEVER played? I hope your not really a Lawyer because you would have made a shitty one. :rotflmao

[Yngtchie]

I never said he did counselor......:rolleyes: Are you telling me He NEVER criticized a team or a player? He never said anything negative about a sport in which he NEVER played? I hope your not really a Lawyer because you would have made a shitty one. :rotflmaoCriticizing something is one thing. Saying that it's not valid and that anyone can do it is something else...

[JazzHessian]

Criticizing something is one thing. Saying that it's not valid and that anyone can do it is something else...

This.

[OldSchool]

Criticizing something is one thing. Saying that it's not valid and that anyone can do it is something else...


But anyone CAN do it :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f18iHXajMOs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKRmTD28TXI

Oh yeah........its not Valid either.

[OldSchool]

This.


Can we hear you bust a move? What do you have or have done that gives you such credibility to argue on Raps behalf? :munch

[Yngtchie]

But anyone CAN do itEh, by that logic, anyone can be a guitarist, they just have to slam the strings in a random fashion...

I'd like to see anyone in this forum do what Weird Al does in the video I posted.

[OldSchool]

Eh, by that logic, anyone can be a guitarist, they just have to slam the strings in a random fashion...

I'd like to see anyone in this forum do what Weird Al does in the video I posted.
Your logic is seriously Flawed bro.

Last time I checked.........most humans can speak from birth. So yes........anyone can Rap. Some might have a better look, or a certain quality that makes them excel over others.......that's just human nature, but yes ANYONE can Rap. Are some better then others? Absolutely . But anyone can do it. And the beats? Anyone can program a beat.Fing JOKe. What's next? Are you gonna compare that to a real drummer who has practiced years at his craft?

Rap: Slang. to talk or discuss, esp. freely, openly, or volubly; chat. ANYONE can do it. The fact that its considering music is mind boggling.

[JazzHessian]

Can we hear you bust a move? What do you have or have done that gives you such credibility to argue on Raps behalf? :munch

The fact that I've listened to it helps. I've actually put effort into finding good music in the genre. There's a lot out there. Just because you don't pay attention doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

And what exactly do you not understand about "comparable, professional quality"? If anyone can do it, then YOU DO IT. Simple.

Eh, by that logic, anyone can be a guitarist, they just have to slam the strings in a random fashion...

Exactly.

[JazzHessian]

Your logic is seriously Flawed bro.

Last time I checked.........most humans can speak from birth. So yes........anyone can Rap. Some might have a better look, or a certain quality that makes them excel over others.......that's just human nature, but yes ANYONE can Rap. Are some better then others? Absolutely . But anyone can do it. And the beats? Anyone can program a beat.Fing JOKe. What's next? Are you gonna compare that to a real drummer who has practiced years at his craft?

Rap: Slang. to talk or discuss, esp. freely, openly, or volubly; chat. ANYONE can do it. The fact that its considering music is mind boggling.

All you've just showed is that you have literally no understanding of what rap actually is or what it entails.

[JazzHessian]

Psh, anyone can play rock music! Just look at these guys! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjeMDvCdrtc)

[JazzHessian]

Anyone can shred! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BF0qIO4RH4)

[OldSchool]

All you've just showed is that you have literally no understanding of what rap actually is or what it entails.

No...........All I've showed is my OPINION of what Rap actually is and what it entails. So have Several others here that are very good Guitar players and musicians. Not only have I stated my opinion I have also gave examples and how and why I came to that conclusion. Sorry if you do not express the same thoughts on the subject. :munch

[JazzHessian]

Anyone can sing! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95dJonNLu6U)

[Yngtchie]

Your logic is seriously Flawed bro.As flawed as yours, I'd say.

Rap is music, and plenty of rap requires talent.

[JazzHessian]

No...........All I've showed is my OPINION of what Rap actually is and what it entails. So have Several others here that are very good Guitar players and musicians. Not only have I stated my opinion I have also gave examples and how and why I came to that conclusion. Sorry if you do not express the same thoughts on the subject. :munch

But your opinion has no basis in reality. Your opinion could be that the world is flat. That doesn't make it so. Why do you expect an opinion you've formed out of ignorance to be treated as valid?

[OldSchool]

Anyone can shred! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BF0qIO4RH4)


Oh yeah? Lets see you shred! Lets see your guitar playing? You can't post that opinion without a Gold or platinum album!...................:rotflmao

[OldSchool]

But your opinion has no basis in reality. Your opinion could be that the world is flat. That doesn't make it so. Why do you expect an opinion you've formed out of ignorance to be treated as valid?


Dude..........your getting too deep. Are you smoking weed while typing? I never said the World was Flat . I stated it was ROUND and I feel YOU are expressing that it is Flat. Why do you get the round opinion? Because you feel you are right. Psych 101 bro. Now I know you are not a Lawyer or a Doctor. :rotflmao

[OldSchool]

As flawed as yours, I'd say.

Rap is music, and plenty of rap requires talent.

Yeah? What Key is this in?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5H7IYPw40Q

:huh :rotflmao

[JazzHessian]

Dude..........your getting too deep. Are you smoking weed while typing? I never said the World was Flat . I stated it was ROUND and I feel YOU are expressing that it is Flat. Why do you get the round opinion? Because you feel you are right. Psych 101 bro. Now I know you are not a Lawyer or a Doctor. :rotflmao

... have you ever taken a psychology course?

Listen, if you haven't listened to rap, don't know any rappers, can't do it yourself, don't have any basis for your opinions outside of YouTube parody videos, don't understand the history of the music, and on top of it all, are too ignorant to even recognize music when you hear it, there's no reason for anyone to listen to you. End of.

[Yngtchie]

Urgh, my brain hurts from reading OldSchool's posts. I've said my bit, so there you have it.

[JazzHessian]

Urgh, my brain hurts from reading OldSchool's posts. I've said my bit, so there you have it.

How can you have a legitimate conversation with someone who spouts nonsense and acts like it pertains to something? It's mind-boggling.

[OldSchool]

=JazzHessian; have you ever taken a psychology course?

Yes. Several.

Listen, if you haven't listened to rap, don't know any rappers, can't do it yourself, don't have any basis for your opinions outside of YouTube parody videos, don't understand the history of the music, and on top of it all, are too ignorant to even recognize music when you hear it, there's no reason for anyone to listen to you. End of

Did I say I never listened to it? That's just another assumed conclusion on your point because You don't agree with my perspective. I have plenty of basis for my opinions as well.........you just don't like it. http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon12.gif

[OldSchool]

Urgh, my brain hurts from reading OldSchool's posts. I've said my bit, so there you have it.


I know it hurts when you have to actually think and make conclusions and all that stuff. Sorry but all that Rap listening will make the brain go soft ya know! :rotflmao

[OldSchool]

How can you have a legitimate conversation with someone who spouts nonsense and acts like it pertains to something? It's mind-boggling.

X2. Right back atcha............:huh:munch :rotflmao

Still waiting for your Massive Rap Rock shred Triglogy that proves you have the right to argue on its behalf...............http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon10.gif

[JazzHessian]

X2. Right back atcha............:huh:munch :rotflmao

Still waiting for your Massive Rap Rock shred Triglogy that proves you have the right to argue on its behalf...............http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon10.gif

Are you seriously so thick that you don't even understand that I posted those links to point out the absurdity of asserting "anyone can do it"?

Listen, it doesn't bother me that you don't like rap. Lots of people don't. But I'm not going to keep discussing this with you because, to be completely honest, you don't know enough (or anything) about the topic. And because I can't keep discussing this topic without bringing up the intellectual faculties you very clearly lack, I'm going to put you on my ignore list. It's just not worth losing my faith in humanity.

[Josh O]

somebody please kill this thread off before it gets ugly. Some of us like rap, some of us don't and there's those who don't like it but understand that there is some musical value behind it and there are some who just can't see past the thug life image and nothing is going to change their minds no matter what reasoning is provided to them.

[OldSchool]

somebody please kill this thread off before it gets ugly. Some of us like rap, some of us don't and there's those who don't like it but understand that there is some musical value behind it and there are some who just can't see past the thug life image and nothing is going to change their minds no matter what reasoning is provided to them.


:agree Very well put Josh. Different people, different opinions. Very easy concept actually. http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon12.gif

[OldSchool]

Are you seriously so thick that you don't even understand that I posted those links to point out the absurdity of asserting "anyone can do it"?

Listen, it doesn't bother me that you don't like rap. Lots of people don't. But I'm not going to keep discussing this with you because, to be completely honest, you don't know enough (or anything) about the topic. And because I can't keep discussing this topic without bringing up the intellectual faculties you very clearly lack, I'm going to put you on my ignore list. It's just not worth losing my faith in humanity.


So your faith in Humanity depends on who likes or doesn't like Crap music? :huh Good luck with that my friend. :rotflmao

[airwarrior]

OldSchool- You are exceedingly ignorant. You claim that rapping is easy, yet you refuse to show that you can do it. You've written off an entire genre because you've heard maybe a handful of the commercial crap that passes for decent music.

Try actually listening to what guys like Saul Williams are saying, or The Roots, or Arrested Development. You are way to stuck up on the crappy mainstream.

All we are asking is that you realize that it may not be your bag, and you may not enjoy it, but to write it off as not music is both ignorant and arrogant.

[russ6100]

OldSchool wrote:
Yeah? What Key is this in?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5H7IYPw40Q


B Minor :D

[Frethog]

The clip was funny.

It hardly registers that I don't care for most rap. I was never the target audience. I imagine it's like most genres, the really good stuff rarely makes it to the mainstream media.

[OldSchool]

OldSchool- You are exceedingly ignorant. You claim that rapping is easy, yet you refuse to show that you can do it. You've written off an entire genre because you've heard maybe a handful of the commercial crap that passes for decent music.

Try actually listening to what guys like Saul Williams are saying, or The Roots, or Arrested Development. You are way to stuck up on the crappy mainstream.

All we are asking is that you realize that it may not be your bag, and you may not enjoy it, but to write it off as not music is both ignorant and arrogant.


I gave several reasons why . Again you are free to have a different opinion . I don't believe 1 person here , NOT ONE has put any of you down for liking Rap music. We kept our opinions aimed at the art-form (Notice I didn't say Music) http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon12.gif . Yet all of you can only attack me for having my opinions and beliefs. And you call me ignorant and arrogant? Puuuhlease. :munch

[Josh O]

OldSchool- You are exceedingly ignorant. You claim that rapping is easy, yet you refuse to show that you can do it. You've written off an entire genre because you've heard maybe a handful of the commercial crap that passes for decent music.

Try actually listening to what guys like Saul Williams are saying, or The Roots, or Arrested Development. You are way to stuck up on the crappy mainstream.

All we are asking is that you realize that it may not be your bag, and you may not enjoy it, but to write it off as not music is both ignorant and arrogant.

Refer to my post above. Not everyone is going to see past the image that Tupac/Biggie/Snoop Dogg/Eminem has caused to be tagged to rap/hip hop in general no matter what examples, what other artists in the genre that are 180 degrees out from those artists are presented to them on MTV cribs. I don't like the above mentioned individuals myself but I do like rap/hip hop. I've liked it since the mid '80s when I was in jr. high/high school listening to the likes of Run DMC, Fat Boys, Beastie Boys, LL Cool J, Public Enemy, Grand Master Flash and the Furious 5 and I did dabble in NWA, Ice T, Ice Cube, Eazy E, EPMD, D.O.C., Slick Rick for a bit when I was in high school. I still think the old school hip hoppers really did worthwhile stuff and I still love the Beastie Boys and dig guys like the Roots, De La Soul, Wyclef, Jurassic 5 and like the fact that hip hop spilled into the world of rock with the likes of 311, Sugar Ray, Incubus, Linkin Park and Limp Bizkit's first album.

Hey, although I'm open minded about alot of music and I do like rap/hip hop, I can kind of understand where the guys who just don't want to hear it are coming from, there's rock artists that I flat out can't stand that are well liked here at TGP that no matter what evidence you give me, I ain't changin' my mind.

To prevent being kicked off the forum and sent to a deserted island without any of my gear, I will keep my dislikes to myself! :rotflmao

[russ6100]

You guys should be able to talk about this stuff without the name calling.

So what if OldSchool doesn't think rap is music? Who cares?

We're gonna see another thread pulled, kids.

I guess to me, even if one person claims that some sound, any sound is music, then I suppose it is. 20 years ago, I wouldn't have agreed with that.

But I can look at it from another perspective and see why some would think that a lot of rap isn't really music.

Some people feel that a combination of melody, harmony and rhythm are needed in order for something to be called music. (I don't)

A lot of rap is rhythmic only. Compound that with the fact that a lot of rap tracks use stock drum machine patterns that were programmed at the factory, and you get on a little bit of thin ice when you put spoken word on top of that and say, "Hey! Check out my song!"

I gave up trying to define music a long time ago.

When someone says that rap isn't music, try to keep in mind that sometimes, people dislike rap so much that their claim is based largely on an emotional response, which I find is pretty normal in human beings. Some people feel that the popularity of rap is in some ways responsible for the fact that a large number of people born after 1980 now would have trouble identifying a soloed instrument in track because hardly anyone actually plays these instruments anymore - it's all keyboards and samples.

OK - enough rambling...

[OldSchool]

Refer to my post above. Not everyone is going to see past the image that Tupac/Biggie/Snoop Dogg/Eminem has caused to be tagged to rap/hip hop in general no matter what examples, what other artists in the genre that are 180 degrees out from those artists are presented to them on MTV cribs. I don't like the above mentioned individuals myself but I do like rap/hip hop. I've liked it since the mid '80s when I was in jr. high/high school listening to the likes of Run DMC, Fat Boys, Beastie Boys, LL Cool J, Public Enemy, Grand Master Flash and the Furious 5 and I did dabble in NWA, Ice T, Ice Cube, Eazy E, EPMD, D.O.C., Slick Rick for a bit when I was in high school. I still think the old school hip hoppers really did worthwhile stuff and I still love the Beastie Boys and dig guys like the Roots, De La Soul, Wyclef, Jurassic 5 and like the fact that hip hop spilled into the world of rock with the likes of 311, Sugar Ray, Incubus, Linkin Park and Limp Bizkit's first album.

Hey, although I'm open minded about alot of music and I do like rap/hip hop, I can kind of understand where the guys who just don't want to hear it are coming from, there's rock artists that I flat out can't stand that are well liked that no matter what evidence you give me, I ain't changin' my mind.

To prevent being kicked off the forum and sent to an isolate island, I will keep my dislikes to myself! :rotflmao


I happen to dig The Beasties . I actually saw them in NYC in 1988 and my best friends "HOT as hell " Sister ,Linda , was in the Video for Right to Party. I also own and dig Tone Loc , Kid Rock and Uncle Kracker and Young MC. Got a few other things........but thats not the point. Finally someone who respects other opinions. I enjoyed letting these guys believe they know it all when they really don't know jack shit about anything. http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon12.gif

[OldSchool]

]You guys should be able to talk about this stuff without the name calling.

So what if OldSchool doesn't think rap is music? Who cares?

But I can look at it from another perspective and see why some would think that a lot of rap isn't really music.

Some people feel that a combination of melody, harmony and rhythm are needed in order for something to be called music.


:agree WORD Yo! http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Thwap]

Funny damn thread boyz...thanks!!!!

Oldschool...you're killin me here.:rotflmao

[OldSchool]

Funny damn thread boyz...thanks!!!!

Oldschool...you're killin me here.:rotflmao


18 Pages! Its almost a new record for me...........http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon10.gif

[BIGGERSTAFF]

So you've heard 95% of hip-hop, eh? Impressive feat.

No, but I haven't heard anything that would make me seek out other examples of the genre that I might enjoy. I've listened to some of the examples that have been posted here, and while they're better than what I've previously been exposed to, it's nothing that I'd ever listen to for enjoyment.

[BIGGERSTAFF]

Most of the good hip-hop I've come across is either from personal recommendations from people who's opinions I trust or from reading online or print media. It's the same way I find most music. If someone I respect tells me that I should check out an artist that I've never heard before, I'll usually do that, regardless of the genre. Only AFTER hearing it will I make up my mind about the music. If you have good sources for recommendations, it's not too hard to find LOTS of great music from all genres. I enjoy that process of discovery. It's not everybody's bag, but it's what I like to do.


In the circles I travel in, there aren't any experts in the more obscure hip hop artists that you're referring to. My exposure is limited to movies/videos/loud car stereos, and none of that sparked my curiosity to do further research.

[Bassomatic]

Anyone can program a beat.

Astoundingly ignorant statement.

You really haven't a clue.

[Alvis]

There are people out there who this a Les Paul & Marshall are the most horrific sound known to man
I dont believe the guerilla aspect of a bunch of kids gettin a couple turntables and some vinyl ,creating art from it, is that far removed from me & my mates in the 70's ,grabbing up guitars,amps,drums that people had thrown in the trash

One of my all time favorites from 1992,somewhat prophetic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glpvb5EQ4Ks

Takes all kinds to make a world baby.......

[OldSchool]

Astoundingly ignorant statement.

You really haven't a clue.

My Bad you are probably right.

Anyone with a Knowledge of electronics can program a beat.........

I stand corrected. http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Chrome Dinette]

How about this DJ/MC combination?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kNgXX6TZnI

[OldSchool]

How about this DJ/MC combination?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kNgXX6TZnI


LOL! Cookie Monster the Rap Artist! http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon10.gif