Mac upgrade question

[Bryan T]

I have a G4/400 that I've been using with a Digi001 for 4 1/2 years. I also use Reason quite a bit and would like to explore some of the newer software synthesizer programs that need a faster CPU. I'm curious about upgrading the processor to something faster. I noticed that a few companies offer upgrades up to 1400 MHz for my machine.

Have any of you done this (or something similar)? Are there any reliability/stability trade-offs? How much of an improvement would I really see (more plug-ins in Pro Tools, more instruments/effects in Reason, etc.)?

On a somewhat related note, I'd also like to boost the RAM. I have 320 MB now, but can go up to 1.5GB. How much should I have to get the best performance out of Pro Tools, Reason, and other music software?

Should I just be saving my money for a G5 upgrade, knowing that I will have to get rid of the Digi001 when I do so?

Thanks,
Bryan

[MichaelK]

Originally posted by Bryan T
Should I just be saving my money for a G5 upgrade, knowing that I will have to get rid of the Digi001 when I do so?

Are you sure you'd have to dump the 001? Why?

[Unburst]

For how much it would cost to upgrade to a significantly faster cpu, you would be far better off buying into a G5.


Then you'd get a faster and more powerful cpu, 64bit architecture, faster ram and PCI slots.

The base level desktop G5 is around $2000, the new G5 imac is $1299-1899.

I'd recommend the new imac, put at least 1 gig of RAM in it and you will notice a huge difference from the G4 you have now.

If your 001 is USB it should work with a G5.

[LSchefman]

I upgraded my Blue and White G3 to a G4 with one of those upgrade processors. It has 512 mb of RAM. It is only 500 MHz.

Here is what I run on it, simultaneously:

Digital Performer 3.11 - set up nominally for 24 mono and 8 stereo tracks
MOTU 1296 with 324 card
I sync to imported Quicktime video for my TV ad work
Reason
Retro (software synth)
Mach Five (software sampler)
Waves Plug Ins
Antares Plug Ins
ReBirth (software drum machine, occasional use)
A roomful of MIDI gear

This is a pretty old machine by modern standards. I am getting a ton of use out of it, and have since I bought it in 1999.

My feeling with digital audio? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I'll replace it soon with a G5, but only because I like the idea of the very quiet cooling system the new G5s have.

[Bryan T]

Originally posted by MichaelK
Are you sure you'd have to dump the 001? Why?

Michael,

I think I know that G5's don't have the right slot for the Digi001's card. I could be wrong on this, though. Do you know something I don't?

Edit:

I found this quote on Digidesign's page: "Digi 001 hardware is not compatible with Power Mac G5 models. Digi 001 owners wishing to use Power Mac G5s can take advantage of Digidesign's Hardware Exchange Program to Digi 002, Digi 002 Rack, or Pro Tools|HD systems."

Consequently, it looks like if I upgraded to a G5 I would either need to downgrade to an MBox or upgrade to a Digi002. Neither is particularly appealing, as I either lose functionality or $1000.


Bryan

[Chiba]

Bryan - you can do what I recently did and get a late-model G4 that your 001 will work with. The switch went pretty smoothly for me (see the thread "Plunge: Full Computer Upgrade" in this section).

Personally, I love the 001 rig. I like having a dedicated card instead of relying on the firewire bus for everything going in & out of the computer.

--chiba

[Southbay Ampworks]

In this case, upgrading the processor and the ram make the most sense on the G4. Especially since spending the G5 $$ and the $$ from the Digi 001 to the new Digi 002 is alot more.

You can get the extra RAM and Processor you need for under $700, I'll bet. That beats the price of any G5 plus the Digi upgrade price. Besides, there are alot of other things you'll need to upgrade since they changed the slot spec on the G5's from the G4's.

Good luck.

[jnavas]

Other folks have told me similar things to what Les just said (sometimes subbing Logic for DP) and it makes me wonder if PT Le is a resource hog.

[MichaelK]

Originally posted by Bryan T
I think I know that G5's don't have the right slot for the Digi001's card. I could be wrong on this, though. Do you know something I don't?
I really don't know. I just thought the slots were the same.

[Southbay Ampworks]

Originally posted by MichaelK
I really don't know. I just thought the slots were the same.

Nope. They changed the specs on the slots. They did it from the G3 to the G4, too (although not as dramatic). They actually do it every time a new "level" of Mac comes out, but sometimes the changes are just a software/firmware upgrade for your card, or you need to get a whole new one.

I specialize in HD, SD and DV digital video editing systems for my "real job", and I have to do this stuff all the time.

Not to be a jerk or condescending, but after 20 years of double clicking on a Macintosh mouse, the last thing you should do is "think", "assume" or "figure" when a new level of Apple Mac comes out. They always have hidden "features", "gotchas" and improved performance specs, alot of them requiring upgrades from minor to major.

[forestryguy]

I can't offer any specific help on your applications, but just a comment on upgading. I have always found upgrading Macs to be very viable for one or two upgrades. I most recently have used Sonnet processor cards. No problem. With the investment in peripherals and software for the old setup (not to mention time spent in the learning curve), a new box is a major loss over and above the cost to purchase. The biggest hassle is what to do about OS; as you move up you gain new capability and access to the latest software, but at the cost of losing the older stuff you rely on. I have found that having a duel-boot system is a good compromise if you have two hard drives (or a partitioned one). IIWY, I would do the minimum upgrade necessary to get you where you need to go. New computers are wonderful and fun, but can be a big hassle as well as expense.

[MichaelK]

Originally posted by Scumbag
Not to be a jerk or condescending...
I'm very aware that you know your stuff and no offense taken. :)

I just never looked into it because I'm not looking to upgrade, so Bryan's question took me by surprise.

Believe me, when the time comes for me to upgrade you'll be first on my list to call to make sure I have all my bases covered.

[Southbay Ampworks]

Originally posted by MichaelK
I'm very aware that you know your stuff and no offense taken. :)

I just never looked into it because I'm not looking to upgrade, so Bryan's question took me by surprise.

Believe me, when the time comes for me to upgrade you'll be first on my list to call to make sure I have all my bases covered.
Opened myself right up to that one, didn't I? (Dumbass! LOL) Seriously, feel free to send an email to my regular business address for computer questions, guru@lamacguru.com, or visit the site to see a couple of systems I've put together (had to use the wide angle mode of the camera, too).

I'd rather you asked first before you got your butt reamed doing the wrong upgrade, as that will really chap your hide if you buy a bunch of stuff and find out it won't work.

Sonnet upgrade cards are good, extra ram is good, getting the Sonnet Tempo card and so forth will allow you a higher speed access to multiple drives, and finally, this is really important...

ALWAYS HAVE TWO DRIVES IN YOUR SYSTEM IF IT'S A TOWER. SET ONE UP FOR MAC OS X, ONE FOR OS 9 IF YOU'RE STILL USING IT.

I'd go into the reasons, but it's mostly that they don't play together well on the same drive, even if you partition it into two parts. I've made alot of money saving people's data and applications that didn't heed this advice.

Spend the extra $100 on a 120gb drive (that's right, 120gb, there's a reason for that, too.) and put one OS on the Apple internal, and the other OS on the extra drive.

That's gonna be $75 for the advice. LOL

:D

[MichaelK]

Originally posted by forestryguy
I would do the minimum upgrade necessary to get you where you need to go.
I tend to agree. If you don't *need* the latest hardware you might as well wait on a major upgrade, because there's really no way to keep up. Who knows what your ~$2500 will buy a year from now?

Me, I skipped the whole blue & white era. I had a PowerMac 9500 from '96-'03, upgraded to a G3 card in '00, and when the hard drive died I went to a G4.

[MichaelK]

This'll probably cost me an extra $10, but...

Originally posted by Scumbag
ALWAYS HAVE TWO DRIVES IN YOUR SYSTEM IF IT'S A TOWER. SET ONE UP FOR MAC OS X, ONE FOR OS 9 IF YOU'RE STILL USING IT...

Spend the extra $100 on a 120gb drive (that's right, 120gb, there's a reason for that, too.) and put one OS on the Apple internal, and the other OS on the extra drive.
Can the second drive be an external firewire? Or do you recommend something else?

[matte]

Originally posted by Scumbag
ALWAYS HAVE TWO DRIVES IN YOUR SYSTEM IF IT'S A TOWER. SET ONE UP FOR MAC OS X, ONE FOR OS 9 IF YOU'RE STILL USING IT. Great advice. Thanks!

[Bryan T]

I went ahead with the upgrade today. I bought the Sonnet Tech processor upgrade, which moves me from a 400 MHz G4 to a 1.4 GHz G4. I also added two 512 MB sticks of RAM, bringing my total to 1.3 GB.

I haven't really tested the system yet, but everything does appear to be stable.

Thanks for all of your help,
Bryan

[Southbay Ampworks]

Originally posted by MichaelK
This'll probably cost me an extra $10, but...


Can the second drive be an external firewire? Or do you recommend something else?
Not recommended to be in most cases, but I've done it successfully. You want to have two internal hard disks for two reasons.

1) They run better if the OS's are on separate drives.

2) Each hard disk can fix the other if you have a problem booting & if you get the right utilities that are compatible with both OS 9, & OS X.