Marketing thoughts in the Fender Road Worn.

[Blue4Now]

Do you all think Fender is loking to re-claim market share from builders like K-Line, Dano and other small builders who primarily assemble relic S and T type guitars? If you think about it, its really a smart move on Fender's part. For $950 you can walk away with a genuine fender (if that's your preference of course) with a relic job that looks, plays and sounds pretty good. Now if you throw in a pro setup and set of Lollars or Fralins you at the price (or even below) the small builders. Not a bad move by Fender I think.

Hey a nice thought provoking thread for my #800!!!

[pir8matt]

I don't know if they necessarily see those builders as a threat, its probably more a case of them seeing a market continuing to grow for relic'ed stuff, and getting the process of relic'ing streamlined enough to produce them at an even lower price point. Not to take anything away from k-line or dano or even GVGC, but I'd be willing to bet their sales numbers aren't even on Fenders radar. Fender sells a lotta guitars.

I think if anything, this will probably stimulate business for the smaller builders, because the relic'ing 'process' will become more well known, and the telltale signs that a guitar has been 'assembly line' reliced will cause people to look for more uniquely done pieces.

[johnh]

What I can't help but wonder is that if the relic craze turns out to be just that - a fad, does that mean that, like pointy headstocks, artifically aged guitars will plummet in value (or simply not hold their value well) compared to normally finished guitars.

[SGNick]

What I can't help but wonder is that if the relic craze turns out to be just that - a fad, does that mean that, like pointy headstocks, artifically aged guitars will plummet in value (or simply not hold their value well) compared to normally finished guitars.

I think it's inevitable, It'll be the "teased hair and spandex" of the 21st century.

[bluescube]

http://www.espguitars.com/images/guitars/GL-256.jpg

This is the only road-worn guitar I would buy:



George Lynch LTD 256

[phantasm]

Relics most likely won't hold their value or go up in value very much.
I'm sure Fender did do this new line to try to take back their market-they don't like anyone copying their headstock and body shapes- so why not do what everyone else seems to be cashing in on?

[shawntp]

Never been a fan of Relic-ing, be it a $4000 custom shop or a $800 MIM - Just not for me.

If you guys like them - by all means go ahead though.

[buddastrat]

http://www.espguitars.com/images/guitars/GL-256.jpg

This is the only road-worn guitar I would buy:



George Lynch LTD 256

eeekkk. Not fo' me. Finish looks like decals on that clean wood. And the neck wear, 12th fret logo and bird beak headstock gotta go.
Someone was selling one for dirt cheap a month or so ago in the forum.

[bmorelli]

i don't think they've lost any market share per se. i think these guitars are for people that want a fender relic, but can't drop the coin on a custom shop guitar. my two cents

[sqadan]

It was hard enough accepting the VOS crap on my Les Paul... but I'd hardly call it a relic.... but I just prefer to "relic" my guitars myself. The idea of paying more for a beat up guitar just does not sit well with me - I understand the work that goes into it, and I certainly don't begrudge anyone else if they like it... but it just does nothing for me.

Also, the Road Worn ones all seem to have the same wear patterns... that really kills it for me.

[buddastrat]

Yeah but you know with as thin as the finish is and all the bare wood showing, they all will wear quickly according to the player.

[powermatt99]

I don't know if Fender cares about reclaiming a market or just capitalizing on a market they have only previously explored in their custom shop. K-line may not sell as many guitars this year as fender sells MIM standard Strats this week. If my marketing classes were true, Fender worries very little about K-line, Logan, etc. and more about Gibson, PRS, Ibanez, G&L (perhaps to a lesser extent), etc. IMO, Fender needs the one-off manufacturers more than it wants to destroy them. I think this is a great move for Fender. The average schlep at the bar sees a relic fender and thinks cool, that guy has played the crap out of his Fender guitar.

[donostia13]

Any thoughts on how the small builders will react to the sub $1k Fender relics? I wonder if we'll see a price drop from the likes of Nash to try and steal back some buyers.

As is probably obvious, I know nothing about markets :)

[Stratofuzz]

It's all about value in 2009-
What they may be forecasting is the amount of disposable income will be much smaller in the next few years, but the demand they created will still exist.
I don't think Road Worn guitars will take anything away from what already exists (Boutique market). It just may sway some who desired an expensive guitar that they could never afford, to open their wallets for a Road Worn model.

[alltweed]

I don't know if Fender cares about reclaiming a market or just capitalizing on a market they have only previously explored in their custom shop. K-line may not sell as many guitars this year as fender sells MIM standard Strats this week. If my marketing classes were true, Fender worries very little about K-line, Logan, etc. and more about Gibson, PRS, Ibanez, G&L (perhaps to a lesser extent), etc. IMO, Fender needs the one-off manufacturers more than it wants to destroy them. I think this is a great move for Fender. The average schlep at the bar sees a relic fender and thinks cool, that guy has played the crap out of his Fender guitar.

1) Its about making a buck. Sometimes you test a market othertimes you compete in the market. Just look at all the models Fender has introduced...

How you get there is a strategy in and of it self. Think Microsoft...Sit back watch market trends and then step in and compete directly or buy out the competitor or whoever has the best leverage. This relic thing may yet be a test, but fender could not avoid the trend. The thin skin nitro was already in full swing as well. It did not make sense to avoid it because they already have resources in place (ensenada) to produce lower cost strats and its just a matter of systematizing the relic process...

2) While competition can be a good thing - if a Nash is sitting next to a CS relic in a fine guitar store, fender does not want their brand to be diminshed. Its a snow ball effect. They want as much mindshare as possible. Once someone gives way to Nash and others, what else is possible -amp kits, knock offs etc etc...It makes good business sense imo.

I just wish they would have made them more like the CS cunnetto (sp?) relics which are not so aggressive around the arm wear area...And the backs of these are stupid along the contour. Less iss more Fender!.

That said, if it tunes out to be light weight and toneful, I can live with relic. Infact, I prefer it cause its a true thin Nitro finish on the body. I already have a headstart on its natural wear. Plus, Ilike taler frets and Tex Mex pups...I will likely get one, but will have to do a little more tocuh up so its not so obvious in certain places. This process alone, will help to make it mine and not be like every other one. Thats kind of cool.

[alltweed]

http://www.espguitars.com/images/guitars/GL-256.jpg

This is the only road-worn guitar I would buy:



George Lynch LTD 256

That is painful to look at...I see no redeming qualities in this at all. Infact, its an insult to my intelligence and screams hopping on a trend with little regard to artistry.

1) The neck looks brand new and is way too light - where is the dark tint?
2) The bare body wood looks brand new
3) You can see the grinder circular swirl marks and its dumb
4) The pick guard and HW is all shiny and brand new

[Flinto2002]

What I can't help but wonder is that if the relic craze turns out to be just that - a fad, does that mean that, like pointy headstocks, artifically aged guitars will plummet in value (or simply not hold their value well) compared to normally finished guitars.

Relics have been going strong since at least the early 90's 93-2009 = 16-17 years I think that's longer than pointy's were ever in fashion

[jetydosa]

Also, "relics" are constantly being created by people playing "normal" instruments, so its a look that has always been around, to some extent.

Also the more you play a "relic" the more "real" it looks at least in some cases. The thin finish and no-laquer necks lend themselves to taking on real wear at an accelerated rate.

[treeofpain]

Great points J...

[Dannc6]

Don't forget that these marketing strategies are also meant to create repeat sales that would not have otherwise been there. I bet there's a good number of people who own mexican (or even American) strats who are now at least considering buying a Road Worn. Many of those people were never going to pony up for the expensive custom shop or 1-off relic, but they will buy something that is cheaper and is still a Fender. Odds are they'll keep their old Fender as well....

[jazzandmetal?]

Do you all think Fender is loking to re-claim market share from builders like K-Line, Dano and other small builders who primarily assemble relic S and T type guitars? If you think about it, its really a smart move on Fender's part. For $950 you can walk away with a genuine fender (if that's your preference of course) with a relic job that looks, plays and sounds pretty good. Now if you throw in a pro setup and set of Lollars or Fralins you at the price (or even below) the small builders. Not a bad move by Fender I think.

Hey a nice thought provoking thread for my #800!!!

In my opinion, Fender should have done this about 5 years ago. But I do think that they have seen all of the smaller builders charging 1000 - 1600 on parts guitar relics and have decided to move in on that market. Fender is about conquering the guitar world. That is why they now own so many other brands.

This will certainly put a hurt on some of the parts relic guys. They won't go out of business or anything but I believe they will feel it a little.

[brad347]

"Road Worn" is the new "Foto Flame."

[AndrewSimon]

I played a few this weekend at GC.
I was surprised how "good" the relicing looked.
It also felt good in my hands.... but that's about it, everything else
about the guitar pretty much sucked.

:cool:

[shark_bite]

Relics have been going strong since at least the early 90's 93-2009 = 16-17 years I think that's longer than pointy's were ever in fashion

"Road Worn" is the new "Foto Flame."

This has already sort of been alluded to, but let me elucidate further:

To say that relic guitars are a strange (and passing) fad is to say that people will stop valuing vintage guitars. Because I think we all know what it's really about - the "I didn't buy a vintage guitar but I want one that looks like it nonetheless" mentality. There aren't a ton of 9/10 or better vintage Strats left out there that aren't in the hands of collectors who paid good money for them. Eventually everyone started to see a certain rustic charm to the ones that aren't quite as "collector-grade" - making them almost as valuable (and folks like SRV and his #1 didn't hurt either) so voila - here we are: playing relics.

Remember one other thing - there will never be another band like the Beatles. Music trends are isolated to genres and demographic groups now more than they ever used to be. The market is fragmented on purpose with as many different types of music as it can hold because ultimately that makes the studios and the suits more money. Fortunately, that means there will always be music made with real guitars that (tonally at least) hearken back to the good old days when just about everyone was playing a Gibson or a Fender, and as long as that music will be out there, we'll keep playing 50s and 60s style guitars no matter when they were built. I guess what I'm saying is that ultimately, unless rock and roll dies, we will probably always value the instruments on which it was invented. And as long as we're valuing those instruments, the vintage market will be active. And as long as there's an active vintage market, there will be people buying relics. I don't really see how that line of logic gets interrupted by a change in trends.

[VaughnC]

Fender should have done this MIM relic thing a long time ago...but I'd be willing to bet that they were probably thinking that these might hurt their higher end Custom Shop relic sales. So now, with everybody and their uncle cashing in on building relic guitars (and many using Fender licensed parts), I think it's a smart move on Fender's part to see if they can tap that market. Only time will tell.

Personally, I couldn't care less about the relic "look"...but my ears & hands tell me the "on approval" Road Worn" Strat I recently received from MF is an excellent Strat...and I like it better than the dozens of Fender Custom Shop Strats I've played or owned. My only criticisms are the fret finishing and I wish the medium C neck had a little more meat to it. Granted, my one Strat is a very small sample and there could be more dogs than gems out there...but I've been playing Strats for over 40 years and, with a few minor tweaks, I really like this thing :AOK.

[Eagle1]

Relics have been going strong since at least the early 90's 93-2009 = 16-17 years I think that's longer than pointy's were ever in fashion
95 with a Mary Kay for "KEEF" and then in to production with an out of house relic job later that year.Thats still 14 years (no gimmick for sure.)

[bluegrif]

I also doubt Fender is worried about losing market share to the relatively tiny numbers of guitars from small builders. Fender, Gibson, or any other large manufacturer has to keep introducing something new to stimulate sales. I'm not down with the relic thing, but it is undeniably popular. Introducing reliced guitars at this price point is a smart move IMO. They won't really compete with the Custom Shop stuff for the most part. With Fender style guitars you can find dogs and winners at any price point. Those inclined to buy CS will continue to do so. Those that always wished they could afford a Fender relic will jump on this new opportunity so long as it's a good product. And from what I've been hearing, that's the case for the most part.

[nomadh]

That is painful to look at...I see no redeming qualities in this at all. Infact, its an insult to my intelligence and screams hopping on a trend with little regard to artistry.

1) The neck looks brand new and is way too light - where is the dark tint?
2) The bare body wood looks brand new
3) You can see the grinder circular swirl marks and its dumb
4) The pick guard and HW is all shiny and brand new


Same here. I've never seen a real guitar that looks like this. I liked the look of Rory Gallaghers old guitar but his expensive relic copy looked like a joke. And its an expensive one. I think the finish on guitars since the 80's or so don't wear the same. Are they much tougher than what was in the 50's and 60's? I have a early 80's strat that is developing a very nice patina and its stripped raw maple neck makes for serious mojo gunk. But I suspect I could wear out a thousand arms before I rub through my body paint. I would consider buying a new guitar with a thin vintage finish that I could start rubbing through. Also how come only strats relic. Did LP's always have tougher finishes?

[brad347]

This has already sort of been alluded to, but let me elucidate further:

To say that relic guitars are a strange (and passing) fad is to say that people will stop valuing vintage guitars. Because I think we all know what it's really about - the "I didn't buy a vintage guitar but I want one that looks like it nonetheless" mentality. There aren't a ton of 9/10 or better vintage Strats left out there that aren't in the hands of collectors who paid good money for them. Eventually everyone started to see a certain rustic charm to the ones that aren't quite as "collector-grade" - making them almost as valuable (and folks like SRV and his #1 didn't hurt either) so voila - here we are: playing relics.
.....

I think it's not the general concept that's going to be a little laughable, but the way it's currently done in many cases, and the results. I'd guess that in my experience, about 85% of "relic" guitars from various makers could be identified from across a crowded room as a "relic'd new guitar" as opposed to a "well-used old guitar." They have a certain look about them, it's hard to say exactly, but it's just incredibly obvious to me.

I think a good analogy is blue jeans. The public likes a well-loved broken-in pair of jeans more than a dark indigo, brand-new looking pair, so much that it's hard to even get a pair anymore that doesn't have some sort of at least subtle fading/washing-out. All the way up to the point where you can get them with huge rips and tears in them.

BUT, look at this guy's jeans:

http://www.produceconsumerobot.com/costumes/projects/buttrocker_4in.jpg

Despite the fact that "worn-in" jeans and stonewashed jeans, etc. are still in style (and likely will be for the forseeable future), this guy's getup is very evocative of a specific time in history. Again, it's not the fact that the denim is distressed, but the manner in which it is (and the general look thereof) that identifies it as being from a certain period in time.

The picture above, when compared to a pair of jeans with honest wear, is reminiscent to me of the comparison between your average 'relic' guitar and a real, well-worn old guitar. There is a concept that makes sense, but the end result ends up being something else, entirely.

I'd suspect that over the years relic'ing as a process will become more realistic, and probably more subtle.

In other words, Less of this:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2157/1576342601_3b78526dcf.jpg?v=0

And more like this:

http://www.gap.com/Asset_Archive/GPWeb/Assets/Product/197/197021/main/gp197021-00p01v01.jpg

Something a little more subtle and natural. :)

[stevieboy]

i don't think they've lost any market share per se. i think these guitars are for people that want a fender relic, but can't drop the coin on a custom shop guitar. my two cents

I'll make that four cents!

I think they're after a much bigger market than the small builders have. If they were to come out with relic versions of the hot rods, I could see it maybe.

A passing fad... just like that rap thing.

[telesquire]

What I can't help but wonder is that if the relic craze turns out to be just that - a fad, does that mean that, like pointy headstocks, artifically aged guitars will plummet in value (or simply not hold their value well) compared to normally finished guitars.

A fourteen year fad? Give us a break.

Defn: A fad is something that is very popular with a small group of people for a short period of time