What do y'all think of Walter Becker as a guitar player? [Archive]

okbutjustonce

01-21-2009, 01:04 PM

I happen to be a huge fan. Very tasteful and distinctive. How many tunes can you identify by the first two notes like "Hey Nineteen"?

In any case, I think his tone has become homogenized over the past 10 years or so. He uses that one guitar--a Sadowski--and seems to play everything in out-of-phase pickup positions.

Nothing wrong with the Sadowski, but everything sounds just a bit too smooth and slick. On the pre-Two Against Nature stuff, I think he played a variety of vintage guitars, and even borrowed guitars from Skunk Baxter and Elliot Randall for tracking different tunes. Now, everything sounds the same.

I can understand the simplicity of playing a single guitar on the road, but with their resources, I can't understand why he woulnd't play a bevy of guitars on the studio stuff.

daddyo

01-21-2009, 01:11 PM

I've always been confused by which stuff is his on classic Steely Dan. I always assumed Becker played bass and hotshots like Skunk Baxter, Elliot Randall and Larry Carleton played the geetar. I though Becker then spent the hiatus perod of Steely Dan polishng his chops so he nowdoes the guitar. Have I got it wrong?

GuitarsFromMars

01-21-2009, 01:33 PM

gjf

01-21-2009, 01:40 PM

I am pretty sure that those signature notes in Hey Nineteen are Hugh McCracken, but I dig Becker's playing. To me he is most effective when just playing on the occasional song that fits his style, like Josie and Home at Last on Aja. Come to think of it he played very well on Two Against Nature where he took most of the guitar solos. I felt like Everything Must Go would have really benefitted from the old SD all star cast approach on guitar though.

Although I am not sure what guitars Becker used pre Two Against Nature, his playing always sounded to me like he was using a strat, so I don't see the Sadowsky as being a limiting factor -- I think that is basically the sound he has always gotten. The other guitar sounds you may be thinking of are quite possibly other players.

okbutjustonce

01-21-2009, 01:47 PM

actually, he played quite a bit of guitar. the solos on Bad Sneakers and Black Friday are great examples.

pir8matt

01-21-2009, 01:50 PM

I happen to be a huge fan. Very tasteful and distinctive. How many tunes can you identify by the first two notes like "Hey Nineteen"?

I don't think thats Becker playing those two notes.

lhallam

01-21-2009, 01:52 PM

Fine player but was disappointed with 'Two Against Nature' when he played throughout. I much prefer when they mixed it up with other players.

1kidc

01-21-2009, 01:57 PM

Isn't Hey 19 Knopfler?

okbutjustonce

01-21-2009, 02:01 PM

Isn't Hey 19 Knopfler?

no, that's Time out of Mind. Can anyone confirm if that's Becker on the Hey Nineteen intro?

TopDog

01-21-2009, 02:03 PM

I like Walter on some of the studio recordings especially , Two against and Everything Must Go. I like his tone, that single coil strat thing he's got going on.

I don't like to hear him live - well maybe I would if he played less!

mik777

01-21-2009, 02:05 PM

It's Knopfler on Hey 19!

okbutjustonce

01-21-2009, 02:08 PM

It's Knopfler on Hey 19!

Hey nineteen (5:04)

Walter Becker: Bass, guitars
Donald Fagen: Lead vocal, electric piano, synthesizer
Victor Feldman: Percussion
Frank Floyd: Backing vocals
Steve Gadd: Percussion
Hugh MacCracken: Guitar
Rick Marotta: Drums
Zack Sanders: Backup vocals

supergenius365

01-21-2009, 05:25 PM

Fine player but was disappointed with 'Two Against Nature' when he played throughout. I much prefer when they mixed it up with other players.

:agree

fyrwyr

01-21-2009, 05:42 PM

I like what he did on Two against nature myself, tasty tone and licks, maybe a little too much noodling around but still tasteful;)

WahmBoomAh

01-21-2009, 06:48 PM

I love the tag out to the song Gaucho .... Becker plays a great variation on the melody .....feeeeling !

Sneaky

01-21-2009, 07:17 PM

actually, he played quite a bit of guitar. the solos on Bad Sneakers and Black Friday are great examples.

I love the Black Friday solo. I wasn't sure who did that one... didn't Rick Derringer play some on Katy Lied too?

So who played on Bhodisatva (sp?). Was that Wally?

WahmBoomAh

01-21-2009, 07:32 PM

I love the Black Friday solo. I wasn't sure who did that one... didn't Rick Derringer play some on Katy Lied too?

So who played on Bhodisatva (sp?). Was that Wally?

Denny Dias dueling with ????

GuitarsFromMars

01-21-2009, 07:53 PM

Derringer played slide on 'Show Biz Kids' .

gjf

01-21-2009, 08:21 PM

Bhodisatva (sp?) was Dias first solo and Baxter outro. Fairly little of the early SD guitar work is Becker. I don't think he soloed on Black Friday either. McCracken definitely played the lead lines on Hey 19.

OldSchool

01-21-2009, 08:24 PM

I'd give a left nut for one of his signature Sadowsky's.............:bow

freedom's door

01-21-2009, 10:05 PM

I'm only familiar with the live clips on YT form the 96 tour, and his playing sounding like a lot of noodling to me. Probably didn't help that he was sharing the guitar duties with Wayne Krantz...
I'm sure he has some fine moments on record though.

jads57

01-21-2009, 10:12 PM

okbutjustonce

01-22-2009, 07:56 AM

I think we`ve all been spoiled by the great guitarists Steely Dan has used over the years from Denny Diaz , Rick Derringer, Mark Knopfler, Dean Parks, Larry Carlton, Drew Zing,etc. So unless it`s in that league, I`m not sure why Walter Becker would play on the album. It`s definitly his right to play there,but it seems flat to me.

yeah, and it's particularly odd considering what both Becker and Fagen have said in interviews about why they abandoned the original "band" in favor of hiring studio guns. The whole idea was to stretch the possibilities of their compositions in ways that would have been limited by a fixed lineup.

It seems that after their hiatus, they changed their tune and have moved back toward more of a band concept, with Becker handling almost all of the guitar playing, Fagen on keys, and Keith Carlock as the steady drummer.

I agree, though, that part of what made them great through Gaucho was the fact that all the instrumental parts--particularly solos--fit so perfectly into the arrangements. Larry Carlton's solo on "Third World Man" is a great example. Becker never could have come up with that one.

Scooter

01-22-2009, 08:01 AM

He's played some really nice stuff in the past, but from what I've heard of their newer stuff I think he's trying too hard to do the 'weird angular, signature Steely Dan guitar part' thing. His stuff - and his tone, for that matter - sounds too preconceived, calculated, and sterile to me.

And as others have mentioned, we've been spoiled by the long line of great players they've used over the years.

TomK

01-22-2009, 08:03 AM

I don't like to hear him live - well maybe I would if he played less!

I agree - a bit too much "noodling" live but he is a really fine player and I dig the tone he gets.

franksguitar

01-22-2009, 08:04 AM

When I saw SD Becker played a Sadowsky strat with a Bogner amp

kwaves99

01-22-2009, 09:43 AM

I really enjoy the playing of Jon Herrington who has handled the lead guitar slot in Steely Dan for the last few years.

lhallam

01-22-2009, 09:47 AM

Derringer played slide on 'Show Biz Kids' .

Also the lead on "Chain Lightning" - one of my fave SD tunes.

telelion

01-22-2009, 11:08 AM

I have to agree with the general view on this thread. I mean these guys would take a month to get the snare drum to sound right and now they let Walter noodle aimlessly throughout the tunes. I like some of his playing on the older tunes very much and he seemed to nail it because he understood the song so well being the co-writer which maybe sometimes gave him the edge over a great studio player. They knew what they wanted. But as far as a bass player, one of the best ever. The perfect feel, sound, and touch.

mik777

01-22-2009, 11:45 AM

Last time I saw SD they shared the bill with Michael McDonald, frankly, I enjoyed MM more! He had a hot band with a great guitar player. Walter Becker really needs to leave the solos to Jon Herrington, thats part of the reason people go see them is to hear the great guitar players. They used to have a guitar player named George Wadenius that I prefered more than Jon Herrington.

dets1

01-22-2009, 11:48 AM

while i think walter is a very good player, i agree with others on this thread. i've seen steely dan live 3 times. the last two i felt like throwing something at his head. he was one of the most annoying musicians i had ever heard. he noodled over everything. the vocals, solos, etc. the last time i saw them, he actually sat on an amp and just played whenever he felt like it. it was almost embarrassing.

MBreinin

01-22-2009, 11:58 AM

I saw them live at JazzFest a couple years ago and I could not hear Herrington very well. I was very disappointed with Becker.

Mike

pir8matt

01-22-2009, 12:25 PM

I really enjoy the playing of Jon Herrington who has handled the lead guitar slot in Steely Dan for the last few years.

+1! :agree

okbutjustonce

01-22-2009, 12:28 PM

why don't they hire Larry Carlton to tour with them? He would be the ideal guy for the gig, and it's not like they can't afford him.

Carlton seems to be touring a lot with some unknown dude, name of Robben Ford. Anyone ever heard of him?http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon12.gif

RickC

01-22-2009, 12:30 PM

well, I mean, it is *his* band....

/rick

derekd

01-22-2009, 02:45 PM

If you want to know about parts on famous tunes, check out their live dvd. If you are a Dan fan, it doesn't take long to see/hear the parts that Walter plays and then recognize them on record. He is a solid rhythm player and plays melodic and tasteful, if not inspired, lead.

He is not in Herrinton, Carlton, et al, class, but then if he was, they wouldn't have brought all those guys in. He is a very good player though, and his playing compliments the songs very well. Imo that is a very high compliment.

humblepie

02-23-2010, 11:29 AM

Georg Wadenius' solo on Peg on the Alive in America CD is BAD-ASS.

First and second solos, both.

To capture the spirit of that song, like Jay Graydon did on the studio version, but also blow it apart with a melodically and technically flawless solo like he did, wow, that's hard to do, hard to capture on tape, and hard to recreate.

A true classic guitar solo on a great, great song.

pbradt

02-23-2010, 11:37 AM

Not my cup. No fire, no passion.

GovernorSilver

02-23-2010, 11:38 AM

I love the Black Friday solo. I wasn't sure who did that one... didn't Rick Derringer play some on Katy Lied too?

So who played on Bhodisatva (sp?). Was that Wally?

Boddhisattva featured Denny Dias and Skunk Baxter.

Derringer played Show Biz Kids and Chain Lightning, possibly others.

Favorite Becker moments:
Black Friday
Peg
Home At Last
FM

After I listened to Steely Dan enough times I had no trouble picking out Becker from the other guys. His style is pretty distinctive to my ears and is part of the Dan sound.

This TGP'er did a fantastic job transcribing two "Peg" solos by two different live players - this post includes the Youtube vid comparing 4 "Peg" solos:
http://somuchsound.blogspot.com/2009/08/peg-gets-pegged-by-drew-zingg.html

todaystomorrow

02-23-2010, 11:42 AM

Home at Last is one of my favorite Steely Dan guitar moments. Ranks up there with the Carlton stuff to me.

I've never seen them live.

TNJ

02-23-2010, 12:00 PM

I'm a well known Dan fan around here.
I dig both Donald and Walter.
Truly a Hall of Fame songwriting/performing duo if
ever there was one.
Their songs have become timeless classics with arrangements that
top notch players the world over would give their right nut
to play on.
And their newer material is STILL good, IMO.

Walter is a quite capable guitarist, although I think (like others here) that he
is best in smaller doses. His chops are interesting and can be
transcendent in the right song.
His bass playing, on the other hand, is SO much better. He composes and plays with the touch and vision of the world class bassist that he is.
Groove/touch/tone/restraint...he lays down the bottom with style.

And, then he's a lyricist with an imagination and a social consciousness
that are both on a high level.

He's had quite the career, and he has deserved every minute of it, IMO.

S.
j

tone4days

02-23-2010, 12:01 PM

he's better than i am even if he doesnt play lead on most of my fav SD tunes ... his tunes are solid enough though ... i do agree that many of the tunes with him as a feature mightve been better if someone else was featured

harmonicator

02-23-2010, 12:03 PM

I am not a fan of Becker's guitar playing. Sounds like he is struggling every time I hear him, like he can't put an idea together. Just my opinion, and I LOVE SD.

I would be happy if Carlton cut the solos on all their tunes.

Jeff Michael

02-23-2010, 12:24 PM

I like Walter fine, but what the last two records both lacked was that "kick it over" guitar part that the ringers used to bring now and again. Good albums, good tunes, but if that outsourced spark had been there like it used to be they'd have been classics...and bigger hits to boot.

JAM

mik777

02-23-2010, 12:35 PM

Stratobuc

02-23-2010, 12:49 PM

11 tracks of Whack is a favorite.

Macaroni

02-23-2010, 01:06 PM

Walter Becker did not play the solo on Peg or Hey 19.

Walter is a great musician - he writes fantastic songs, plays bass on Steely Dan recordings, plays guitar very competently, and sings well too.

His guitar solos may not be on the level of Carlton or others, but so what? That's just one aspect of his overall stellar musicianship.

GovernorSilver

02-23-2010, 01:25 PM

Walter Becker did not play the solo on Peg or Hey 19.

My bad. I meant "Josie" when I listed "Peg" as a favorite Becker moment.

Heinz W

02-23-2010, 01:39 PM

My bad. I meant "Josie" when I listed "Peg" as a favorite Becker moment.

I thought Larry Carlton played git on Josie. On the Crossroads 2004 DVD he plays that tune and before he starts he says something like, "You may not know me, but you know my guitar from songs like this." From that I took that he played on the original track of Josie. Anyone know for sure?

speedtaco

02-23-2010, 01:49 PM

I love the Dan. I've seen them live many times since the early 90's. I love Walter, but I don't think he brings much to the table live with the guitar. Pretty boring actually. Noodles all the time, and his tone never changes. I'll put up with it because I love those guys and their music so much, but he makes them really sound like elevator/smooth jazz music.
While on the subject, I went to see them perform Gaucho and Aja in Chicago. Donald's voice seems shot. He had a lot of trouble, almost to the point of distraction. I don't know how he sang those parts in his prime, and I guess it's catching up to him.

Crowder

02-23-2010, 01:49 PM

There are a handful of vids on YouTube about the making of Aja, which is one of my desert island albums. The one about Peg includes a discussion about the guitar solo and they even play snippets of solos from several studio aces that are still on the master. I can't recall who got the cut but it wasn't Becker.

dhdfoster

02-23-2010, 01:53 PM

Without knowing who played what when I first started listening, there was some stuff that I thought had great tone, great phrasing, great touch, great note choice and great hooks. The other stuff I thought was messy, misdirected, and ahem...not so toneful.

Now that I have more knowledge about who played what, my initial impressions seem to be divided into two categories.

1. Things that Becker played.
2. Thnisn that someone else played.

Unfortunately, but honestly, I prefer the second category.

Macaroni

02-23-2010, 01:55 PM

I have the Making of Aja DVD - wonderful BTW. I'll have to check to see who played the solo on Josie.

Lucidology

02-23-2010, 02:00 PM

Always have enjoyed Becker's playing...

GovernorSilver

02-23-2010, 02:21 PM

I have the Making of Aja DVD - wonderful BTW. I'll have to check to see who played the solo on Josie.

The original "Josie" solo is totally Becker's style to my ears - the bends and vibrato is so Walter Becker, and the timing too - the seemingly hesitant spaces between notes. Maybe Carlton just loves to cover that song.

This is the Josie segment from the DVD:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x21rpm_steely-dan-the-making-of-josie_music

gill

02-23-2010, 02:31 PM

Home at Last is one of my favorite Steely Dan guitar moments. Ranks up there with the Carlton stuff to me.

:agree I didn't know that was Becker.He always had great tone in the Dan tradition

MBreinin

02-23-2010, 02:33 PM

I am sure there is some good stuff on SD albums of his that I like. I never know who is playing what though. Who plays the lead in "Glamour Profession?" If that is him, I love it.

I saw SD a few years ago live and he drove me INSANE with his random noodlage all over the songs. Also, he was the only guitar I could hear. So, on solos he didn't take, and that I really wanted to hear...I could not hear. It was really a let down.

Mike

rdswb

02-23-2010, 02:50 PM

Love Becker. I saw the Dan twice last summer. At the Borgata show in AC, Becker was terrible....bad, piercing, way too clean tone, couldn't get it together musically. One or two weeks later at the Beacon, he was on fire and had fantastic tone. We started a "Wal-ter Bec-ker" chant where I was sitting.

Terry Hayes

02-23-2010, 02:54 PM

Terry Hayes

02-23-2010, 02:55 PM

I love the tag out to the song Gaucho .... Becker plays a great variation on the melody .....feeeeling !

I love that too but I believe that is Carlton.

Edit: Sorry, I was thinking of "Third World Man". But I still agree that the outro to Gaucho is great too!

Baxtercat

02-23-2010, 02:56 PM

I am sure there is some good stuff on SD albums of his that I like. I never know who is playing what though. Who plays the lead in "Glamour Profession?" If that is him, I love it.

If that fadeout ride isn't the coolest thing that's ever happened to rock/pop, I don't know what is.
That was Steve Kahn.
I can't listen to that one enough, and I still can't get it. Hard chords for an old blues rocker like me, I guess.

Macaroni

02-23-2010, 03:00 PM

I found these credits for Josie online - Walter Becker solo. I recently learned that solo.Drums: Jim Keltner
Bass: Chuck Rainey
Electric Piano: Victor Feldman
Guitars: Larry Carlton, Dean Parks
Solo Guitar: Walter Becker
Synthesizers: Donald Fagen
Percussion: Jim Keltner
Backup Vocals: Donald Fagen, Tim Schmit
Interesting to see Tim Schmit on BGVs - Eagles Bass player, right?