A fortunate few that are just born with "it"

[BryanMatthews]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlmgKQUqTbc

and Carl Verheyen was most definitely born with "it" in his genes.

great phrasing
great timing
great ability to play in the groove
great touch
great tone in his hands

I dont like Strats but Verheyen makes that one he is playing sound like musical gold to my ears.

sublime playing in the clip , isnt it ?

[Drifting]

Nice reverb.

I really like the groove he's got going. And his phrasing at the end was sick.

Whenever I get that "Single coils are weak" head trip going, I go listen to Hendrix or a guy like this and bring it all back home.

Hard to get a full sound out of 'em, but when you do....:phones

His sound is so dark and mysterious.... killer.

[Rumblefish]

I have to say he was "born with it" after years of very intense practice.Although I've known guys who worked so hard and just never could quite get"it". Nice clip.

[catalinbread]

9/10th of god given talent is hard work. "It" is the 1/10th or desire to actually try in the first place.

[rh]

I have to say he was "born with it" after years of very intense practice.

Yeah. The stupidest idea I carried around with me when I was a full time player was that you were either a natural or you were wasting your time. While I played a lot, and worked hard, this notion greatly shaped what I worked on in those daily practice sessions. What you work on makes all the difference.

When I listened back to tapes of myself and heard inconsistency, I misinterpreted that to mean I wasn't "born with it" and, discouraged, plotted a new course.

I'm happy with my life and all, but I do kick myself for not knowing more, at the time, about the actual nature of learning and growing as a musician.

Way to go, Carl. :AOK

[james russell]

Yeah. The stupidest idea I carried around with me when I was a full time player was that you were either a natural or you were wasting your time. While I played a lot, this notion greatly shaped what I worked on in those daily practice sessions.

When I listened back to tapes of myself and heard inconsistency, I misinterpreted that to mean I wasn't "born with it" and, discouraged, plotted a new course.

I'm happy with my life and all, but I do kick myself for not knowing more, at the time, about the actual nature of learning and growing as a musician.

I agree, I think it is very much a self sabotage to think that some folks have "it" and some don't. While it is true in some respects, it's not helpful to yourself to think that others have the mojo and you don't. I believe that with a little bit of talent(which we all have) and plenty of work, you can accomplish your musical goals.

I took lessons from Carl when he had just moved back to SoCal from being at Berklee. This was in the late seventies and Carl was in his early twenties. He used to tell me stories demonstrating how he was NOT "born with it". Some of the his experiences were quite humbling. What Carl has in spades is a very dedicated work ethic. If you go to his house, he will usually answer the door playing a guitar. He practices relentlessly to this day. Hours and hours every day. And he challenges himself to stay out of ruts.

Carl is obviously very talented, but his success was self created through tons of work, and a positive attitude. His greatest "talent" in my opinion is his dedication to his art.

He is a total inspiration to me because I know him to be a normal guy who's success is self made. He was not born with "it", therefore it is also possible for us who think of ourselves as ordinary mortals to accomplish similar musical goals as well. Anyway, I've come to the conclusion that comparison with a "who's better than who" attitude is usually harmful to my musical life.

James

[stevel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlmgKQUqTbc

and Carl Verheyen was most definitely born with "it" in his genes.



Yes, but I think the "it" he was born with was a desire to improve his playing, and the open-mindedness to accept influences and techniques from all styles and realize how he could incorporate them into his own playing - all while paying attention to detail.

One of the biggest flaws in players I think who don't have this "it" as I'm describing it is that they don't realize how narrow they are stylistically, or how bad they are timing-wise, and so on. In other words, they're not self-aware enough to realize they need to improve (or can improve, etc.), and that's 90 percent of the battle.

Another problem is, "it" is often viewed as Record Sales, Stadium Sellouts, and National TV appearances. Many "musicians" with that "it" don't really see the need for Carl's type of "it". Unfortunatley, they're also creating the mindset that Carl's type of "it" is simply not worthwhile to them.

I think we're all capable of "it", we just need to decide on our particular "it" and do the work necessary for achieving "it" - Clara Bow excepted.

Steve

[mik777]

I think its 90% perspiration and 10% of what your born with! If someone is born with a little more than someone else and chooses not to cultivate that, it is possible for someone with less to excel beyond that person. Example from the sports perspective: Why is it that Magic Johnson did not do well as a coach? and someone like Pat Riley did, Pat Riley certainly was not a superstar when he played in his day, I think he knew how to take the talent he had, along with some determination and excel to a degree in which he would not have if he did not find new methods and approaches. There will always be the SRV's and the EVH's that just have more of the gift but it does not mean that you cannot be phenomenal in your own right!

[Tone_Terrific]

Most of us encounter people who are smarter, quicker, have better focus, dedication, energy, memory etc. Call it what you will, but those with more 'talent' rise to the occasion, in their field, and generally adapt more quickly, than those without.

Polishing 'it' yields better results than polishing that other stuff.

[derekd]

Most of us encounter people who are smarter, quicker, have better focus, dedication, energy, memory etc. Call it what you will, but those with more 'talent' rise to the occasion, in their field, and generally adapt more quickly, than those without.

Polishing 'it' yields better results than polishing that other stuff.

Sorry, I'm calling BS. Michael Jordan didn't make his high school team right off. He didn't start until his junior year. Where was the "it" factor? He developed it in the gym thru countless hours of practice.

Not doubt he has some physical gifts, but there are plenty of guys in that game more physically talented than he is. Check out what Pat Metheny says about this stuff. I heard him talk about having to work his ass off ahead of time to prepare for a studio gig. He talked about admiring guys who could just come in a blow off the top of thier heads.

[The Last Rebel]

There aren't many people that can make a Strat sound as good as Carl. He definately has some sort of gift.

[Robapov]

splatt you da man :YinYang

[splatt]

splatt you da man :YinYang
thanks, r.
was i, for a second, there?
;)

dt / spltrcl

[harryjmic]

I teach part time now and there is an element of "born with it" as I have one young guy who just can hear it. He comes in and is guitar is always in tune and he knows when something isn't right. He creates awesome sounding tunes based on what he knows which isn't very much so far.

The first thing I showed him was Bach's Bouree in Em, so far he's about 1/2 through the first part of the tune. I think he has been playing 3 or 4 months tops.

This being said, even though he has it, he doesn't seem that motivated as soon as I show him something not to his liking (chords where he has to stretch) he loses interest. This is something that makes the great players who they are, they don't let a hurdle become a unclimable wall.

I do hope this student realizes his gift one of these days because if that should happen he could be something special.

[pauldogx]

Some are born with more natural ability than others. The great ones, like others have stated, have put in the real work required with laser-like focus and often to the detriment of other aspects of their lives.

[sharpshooter]

I've always ,,kind'a ,,thought of the 90% sweat/10% talent; But, could anybody be a Rembrant? Or a "gifted" poet? I think that ,,,maybe,, some people just have a different kind of connection between the brain, and fingers, and eyes, in the case of a painter. In our guitars and music, are we not trying to paint? But, they say, "even a blind sqerill (sic), finds a nut once in a while". Or, even if you have no talent, if you play long enough, you'll eventually be able to play "something good"?

[mik777]

I've always ,,kind'a ,,thought of the 90% sweat/10% talent; But, could anybody be a Rembrant? Or a "gifted" poet? I think that ,,,maybe,, some people just have a different kind of connection between the brain, and fingers, and eyes, in the case of a painter. In our guitars and music, are we not trying to paint? But, they say, "even a blind sqerill (sic), finds a nut once in a while". Or, even if you have no talent, if you play long enough, you'll eventually be able to play "something good"?

Sure, hard work and determination will make you a better player! unfortunately very few find their own voice, they spend their time trying to copy someone else's licks, tone, tunes etc... To be a Rembrandt you have to be true to yourself... Guys like The Edge have done that! even though he might not be as technical as some shredders he has created his own voice! But creativity is a whole different thing, you might be able to play awesome but not have any creativity at all.

[DrSax]

i'll throw my 2 cents in what the heck.

99% of the time it's 9/10's hard work.

and then there's cats like Mozart.

[russ6100]

I think the 90% hard work / dedication thing is pretty close but I think the other 10% isn't so much talent as it is just pure love of the music.

[Tone_Terrific]

Sorry, I'm calling BS. Michael Jordan didn't make his high school team right off. He didn't start until his junior year. Where was the "it" factor? He developed it in the gym thru countless hours of practice.

Not doubt he has some physical gifts, but there are plenty of guys in that game more physically talented than he is. Check out what Pat Metheny says about this stuff. I heard him talk about having to work his ass off ahead of time to prepare for a studio gig. He talked about admiring guys who could just come in a blow off the top of thier heads.

You're kidding?
You never met or work with, even observed, someone in the same field as you or with which you were very familiar, come to a proper conclusion, solve a problem, just [lain get it right, based on the same input available to all, but only picked up by the few? Thats not talent?

Those guys Metheny heard, did he not think they had talent? Talent includes the ability to work and learn productively.

[rh]

thanks, r.
was i, for a second, there?
;)

dt / spltrcl

Argh. Sorry I missed it.

[rh]

i'll throw my 2 cents in what the heck.

99% of the time it's 9/10's hard work.

and then there's cats like Mozart.

The real Mozart, or the Amadeus (1984) Mozart ? The real Mozart was relentlessly trained by his father from a very early age.

[rh]

You're kidding?
You never met or work with, even observed, someone in the same field as you or with which you were very familiar, come to a proper conclusion, solve a problem, just plain get it right, based on the same input available to all, but only picked up by the few? Thats not talent?


In all modesty, in my field -- and strictly within the limits of the people I usually work with -- I usually am that guy. I know other people who are that person among their peers, and I also know people who completely kick my ass at it too.

I attribute it to creativity, which I define as the making of non-obvious neural associations. I think there are very acquirable, tangible attributes that make it common when combined with an embracing mindset (i.e., a mindset where you aren't distracted by apparent/superficial differences or other non-applicabilities).

I work with a lot of comp sci / engineering types who are just so imprisoned by how they've organized what they know that they're hopelessly uncreative. They habitually see only differences, which I've come to think actually, physically, dampens/constrains the brain's neural response. You can't get out of the box if the way you intrinsically frame your inputs puts you in it.

I've commonly found that the most creative comp sci / engineering folks I know come from fields that foster abstraction and the implicit skill of building transforms: math, and music. Transforms in math are a little out of scope for this discussion, but when you think of how much very different music gets created out of a very simple underlying harmonic structure and how a well-trained musician can recognize that structure and create a transform from that structure to a context-specific rendering...

...well, anyway. I've actually got a lot of work to do today. Enough piddling around.

[derekd]

You're kidding?
You never met or work with, even observed, someone in the same field as you or with which you were very familiar, come to a proper conclusion, solve a problem, just [lain get it right, based on the same input available to all, but only picked up by the few? Thats not talent?

Those guys Metheny heard, did he not think they had talent? Talent includes the ability to work and learn productively.

Oh no, don't get me wrong I certainly believe in talent. I just think it is typically overrated. Whether we are talking about Jordan or Metheny, if you and I put in the same amount of focused practice as they did, we will maximize what ever gifts/talents we have. Will we be as good as Pat? Who knows?

I have met plenty of physically gifted athletes (I have coached sports thru the years) who didn't have much of a work ethic, and in spite of great tools, were mediocre players. Same with music imo. I have two buddies for whom music comes MUCH easier for them than I. However, I put in much more work than either of them, and can play better than they can.

Not in a competitive way, but just being able to play more stuff. So I guess I would suggest that the real talent is not as much in quickly being able to hear/absorb stuff as it is the single minded focus and drive that makes you want to practice 6-8 hours per day and be the best player you can.

[Rama]

Having a lot of natural talent can work against you if things come to easily for you and you are of a certain personality type. Where others have to really work and establish a solid work ethic in the process, a lazy person (having become that way for whatever reason) may be surprised to find himself behind that less "talented" person that he blew by at the start...

I am like that or have been guilty of it in the past...and it started early. Hero at the start but lacking the focus to dedicate and persevere has cost me..I am very good at the things I do but could've been great.

For me it basicly came down to a fear of alienating my family with any outsized sucess...so I am on a path to open the ceiling up again.......like it was before my dad punished me for all those straight A's.

I don't blame my father for this. He wanted a son that liked to hunt and fish...just did'nt get one. Bummer for him and me, too.

Don't know where all THAT came from:messedup...Sorry,,I've been up for a couple of days.:jo

[james russell]

I've seen this with students quite a lot. The ones for whom guitar playing comes very easily are often discouraged and impatient when they have to really work for something. Conversely, I've had students that I thought were going to be difficult to teach because they learned so slowly in the lessons, only to have them go home and work very hard until they got the lesson down cold. It's an unusual person who has both natural talent, and the work skills to develop their talent...like Carl Verheyen.

[james russell]

Having a lot of natural talent can work against you if things come to easily for you and you are of a certain personality type. Where others have to really work and establish a solid work ethic in the process, a lazy person (having become that way for whatever reason) may be surprised to find himself behind that less "talented" person that he blew by at the start...

I am like that or have been guilty of it in the past...and it started early. Hero at the start but lacking the focus to dedicate and persevere has cost me..I am very good at the things I do but could've been great.

For me it basicly came down to a fear of alienating my family with any outsized sucess...so I am on a path to open the ceiling up again.......like it was before my dad punished me for all those straight A's.

I don't blame my father for this. He wanted a son that liked to hunt and fish...just did'nt get one. Bummer for him and me, too.

Don't know where all THAT came from:messedup...Sorry,,I've been up for a couple of days.:jo

Excellent post. Thanks for the honesty. Sounds like you've done the work needed to transcend your family. I guess they call it individuation. Playing small to get acceptance never helps anyone in the long run. Speaking from personal experience.

James

[Lucidology]

Don't forget previous past lives dedicated to musicianship ...
(IMHO) Not everyone enters with a clean slate devoid of discipline (i.e. musical development ...)

[derekd]

Don't forget previous past lives dedicated to musicianship ...
(IMHO) Not everyone enters with a clean slate devoid of discipline (i.e. musical development ...)


Previous lives? You aren't gonna go all Santana on us are you?

[rh]

Previous lives? You aren't gonna go all Santana on us are you?

Reminds me of an early, positive review of Allan Holdsworth's playing with Tony Williams: "...Allan Holdsworth, who plays like he's been practicing scales for the better part of a previous lifetime..."