** SM 57 and Royer 121 **

[Glide]

I am seriously considering buying a Royer 121. Has anyone here uploaded a comparison of it and the SM57?

If so, can you post the link to the thread, and if not, can someone post some comparison clips?

Thx!

[BluesForDan]

you can use an SM57 as a hammer, or for driving tent stakes into the ground when you go camping. I highly recommend you do NOT do that with the Royer. :D

the SM57, you can pretty much plug it into anything and get something useful out of it. The Royer really can use, some say needs, a high end mic pre to really get it at the top of its game. Nearly all ribbon mics need a substantial amount of gain, way more than a dynamic like the SM57. Thing is, to get clean, transparent and copious gain, there is no cheap way around it. Behringer, Zoom, ART just ain't gonna do the Royer justice, especially at 10 times the price of an SM57.

[hbentley]

they work great together. the royer is warm and the 57 has the bite...i use the pair alot to track guitars.

[Glide]

I have a few 57's, but want to see how they would sound vs (or with) the 121 before doling out the $1.2k for the 121.

[ThugLife]

if you've got the $ to spend on one, I'd highly recommend it!! A lot of great guitar tones have been gotten with on of these guys. I have first had experience with this bad boy. If you want a good sound clips of one, check out www.myspace.com/dolor
All the guitar tracks were recorded with just the R121 and they're fantastic!!!

[cochese]

If you check out all the new sound clips I did for the Guytron GT100 FV. http://www.guytron.com/samples.html They were all done with a single Royer 121. The older sound clips were done with a 57.

I use a Great River mic-pre which is really good but the idea you need a really hot pre for this mic is not entirely correct. If you are recording a very soft sound source like a finger picked acoustic or vocal you need the extra gain. To record a guitar amp you shouldn't need much gain at all unless you are recording at bedroom volume.

The Royer is a great mic and I used both the Royer and 57 together for much of my CD. The thing is with a 57 it has a certain edge to it and it's also very easy to use. You can really get great results with any mic. I just prefer the Royer.

[PatrickMer10s]

I used a royer with a shure SM7B on my bassman in the studio last night. Sounded great.

[alotawatts]

If you shop for an SM57 or 58 watch out for counterfeit's
Some amazing bogus copies on the market ebay , Craigslist etc.
1. A real SM57 (http://forum.recordingreview.com/f47/shure-sm-57-reviews-5920/) weighs 284 grams (10 oz). The fakes are 240 grams (8.5 oz)
2. The band with the logo is a cruddy sticker, not screen printed.
3. The casting near the XLR socket has a recess. A real SM57 (http://forum.recordingreview.com/f47/shure-sm-57-reviews-5920/) doesn't
4. The printing on the Velcro cable tie is dull and poorly defined and the tie is the wrong length.
5. The box is the wrong colour
6. The grille is poor quality
7. The resistance between pin 2 and 3 is 550 ohms. It should be no more than 400.
8. Local regulatory marks are missing
9. The sound quality is not Shure standard. An A-B comparison shows it up

[JimmyR]

I have a 57, a 58 and recently an R121. I do prefer the 58 over the 57 even though they're apparently pretty much the same mic! Must be the pop-filter. I use them into an Apogee Duet into a Mac. So far I have found that without a good pre - ie just going straight into the Duet I don't need any more gain than the Duet supplies if I'm recording electic guitar. Which is all I have used it for so far.

Without the hi-end pre the differences between the Royer and the 57/58 aren't huge. The Royer is a little darker and has a more "realistic" sound while the Shure is more in your face. I have gotten some great sounds by using the Shure right on the grill at 45 degrees and the Royer at 1.5 - 2m from the amp. Mix 'em 50/50 and you get a big, warm but bitey, lively sound. Which is exactly what I wanted whenI bought the Royer. The Royer definitely gives a bit more room sound this way, but not in an obtrusive way.

My plan is to build some Neve and API style pres to use with these mics. They sure do work well together so far. I expect the differences will be rather more dramatic once I have some decent pres!

[loudboy]

The Royer really can use, some say needs, a high end mic pre to really get it at the top of its game. Nearly all ribbon mics need a substantial amount of gain, way more than a dynamic like the SM57. Thing is, to get clean, transparent and copious gain, there is no cheap way around it. Behringer, Zoom, ART just ain't gonna do the Royer justice, especially at 10 times the price of an SM57.

I've used mine through a wide variety of pres, from ART to API, and it sounds great thru all of them. Drastically different than an SM-57.

For recording electric guitar, you need about 35-40dB of gain, tops. ANY pre will do that. If you're using it for acoustic instruments, you will need more gain.

I'll have to say that if you're a professional recordist, it will make you VERY happy. If you're a hobbyist, I'd save the money. Especially in this economy.

[dougb415]

You can get a Cascade Fathead for a lot less. Not saying it's the same as the Royer, but if you're a hobbyist you can get in the same ballpark for less than $200. I just did some tracking this morning using a 57 and Fathead. 57 has the bite, Fathead has the warmth. Blended together makes for some nice noise :banana

[Jim S]

I am seriously considering buying a Royer 121. Has anyone here uploaded a comparison of it and the SM57?

If so, can you post the link to the thread, and if not, can someone post some comparison clips?

Thx!
I use both and they compiment each well. You can't go wrong with either.

I am pretty swamped this week and weekend but I might be able to email you a file of guitar tracks with each mic panned hard left and right.

PM me your email. No promises....I'm super fuggin busy.

[Jaradc]

add a 421 in there, stereo the sm57 and 421 and use the royer as a room. Insto grammy

[Vegas Bob]

Just remember the Royer is a ribbon mic and should be stored VERTICAL so that over time the ribbons don't sag...

[KennyM]

they work great together. the royer is warm and the 57 has the bite...i use the pair alot to track guitars.

+1 big time.

[Kenny D]

Anyone ever do a shoot-out between the Royer and the Fat-Head?

I have been thinking about a ribbon mic for a while and don't really want to spend what the Royer costs.

[Kenny D]

if you've got the $ to spend on one, I'd highly recommend it!! A lot of great guitar tones have been gotten with on of these guys. I have first had experience with this bad boy. If you want a good sound clips of one, check out www.myspace.com/dolor (http://www.myspace.com/dolor)
All the guitar tracks were recorded with just the R121 and they're fantastic!!!

Those were good tones - not brittle at all.

How much gain were you using on the amp? What kind of amp and how far back was the Royer from the grill?

[phoenix 7]

Own them both, have used them together and A/B'd them extensively. Great combination. Comparing them also made me realize once again what an amazing electric guitar mic the SM-57 is. Can't say that the 121 sounds 1000 bucks better, just different.

[DOMINIC]

is this real?

http://cgi.ebay.com/SHURE-SM57-Dynamic-Instrument-Microphone_W0QQitemZ290294476954QQcmdZViewItemQQpt ZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item290294476954&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 09|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50 (http://cgi.ebay.com/SHURE-SM57-Dynamic-Instrument-Microphone_W0QQitemZ290294476954QQcmdZViewItemQQpt ZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item290294476954&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1309%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50)

[alotawatts]

Probably not:
Listing cancelled by EBAY !

[zekmoe]

If you shop for an SM57 or 58 watch out for counterfeit's
Some amazing bogus copies on the market ebay , Craigslist etc.
1. A real SM57 (http://forum.recordingreview.com/f47/shure-sm-57-reviews-5920/) weighs 284 grams (10 oz). The fakes are 240 grams (8.5 oz)
2. The band with the logo is a cruddy sticker, not screen printed.
3. The casting near the XLR socket has a recess. A real SM57 (http://forum.recordingreview.com/f47/shure-sm-57-reviews-5920/) doesn't
4. The printing on the Velcro cable tie is dull and poorly defined and the tie is the wrong length.
5. The box is the wrong colour
6. The grille is poor quality
7. The resistance between pin 2 and 3 is 550 ohms. It should be no more than 400.
8. Local regulatory marks are missing
9. The sound quality is not Shure standard. An A-B comparison shows it up

10. It's amazing that there's even a market for a counterfeit to a $99 item in 2009. What's next? Counterfiet bags of Cheetos that sell for fifty cents less than the real thing?

[loudboy]

10. It's amazing that there's even a market for a counterfeit to a $99 item in 2009. What's next? Counterfiet bags of Cheetos that sell for fifty cents less than the real thing?

Behringer has built an empire on this concept.

[corgan4321]

Keep in mind that microphone preamps play as big of a role in your sound as mics do. An SM57 into a great preamp will most likely sound more accurate/better than a Royer into your standard Mackie preamp.

When using a great preamp, you cannot go wrong with a Royer 121. It sounds beautiful! But if you don't already have a great preamp, it would be imoportant to upgrade that first. An SM57 into the right preamp can sometimes not be equalled. This is of course my opinion but it is also the opinion of many many others.

[fuzzyguitars]

Another mic that a lot of pros use for touring and studio work is the shure ksm32

I was messing around today with
Royer 121
Cad trion 7000
Md 421 ii
Sm7b
Ksm32

I had forgotten how good the ksm32 sounds!

[cochese]

Keep in mind that microphone preamps play as big of a role in your sound as mics do. An SM57 into a great preamp will most likely sound more accurate/better than a Royer into your standard Mackie preamp.

When using a great preamp, you cannot go wrong with a Royer 121. It sounds beautiful! But if you don't already have a great preamp, it would be imoportant to upgrade that first. An SM57 into the right preamp can sometimes not be equalled. This is of course my opinion but it is also the opinion of many many others.

Sorry but I must disagree with this. The microphone makes a much bigger impact. I went the route that you suggested and my Great River $1100 preamp did not make my 57 sound sound all that much better. I was even advised by Dan Kennedy the designer of the Great River ME 1NV that the Royer would make a bigger impact on the sound than his mic-pre. While a quality mic-pre is a good idea if you have some really noisy cheap mic-pre but the differences between a Royer ribbon mic, a 57 and an AKG 414 will be clearly obvious even with the inexpensive mic-pres on a Mackie 1202VLZ pro.

[909one]

The only time I have ever put a mic right in front of a guitar amp and liked the sound I was hearing without tweaking was with a Royer and a Beyer m160.
I just bought a Royer on Ebay today actually! So I let you know how it fairs. I don't have any good pre's yet, so we'll see how it fairs, but I have another ribbon and on louder stuff, a super sensitive pre deosn't really matter.
There is no doubt a good pre would help things a bunch though. That's next on the list.
As far as the R121 compared to the sm57... i thing they are two different beasts. Two different paint brushes if you will. You can't really compare.

[Glide]

How many of you run your 57 into a pre?

[Ulysses]

How many of you run your 57 into a pre?

Pretty much everyone making a recording has to run a 57 through a pre of some sort.

Oh, and if somebody hasn't already mentioned, 48v phantom power can fry a ribbon mic so be careful. Royer claims that phantom power should not harm a 121 but they still recommend that you make sure any phantom power is turned off before connecting.

[Glide]

That's not necessarily true. I am getting some cool hi-gain stuff with a portable H4.

[Ulysses]

That's not necessarily true. I am getting some cool hi-gain stuff with a portable H4.


It does have a pre. The 57 wouldn't generate any signal to speak of.

[buddaman71]

The 121 is dramatically warmer than the 57, with none of that annoying sizzle. Great mic.

[meterman]

The only time I have ever put a mic right in front of a guitar amp and liked the sound I was hearing without tweaking was with a Royer and a Beyer m160.

Would the m160 be a better choice than the 121 if you don't have a good sounding room? Seems like alot of the magic of the 121 is the figure 8 pattern adding room sound in phase whereas the m160 is a hypercardioid pattern which seems like it would work better in bad/questionable/dead rooms...

I'm curious b/c I have a small/questionable room (though I'm treating it as much as I can) and the m160 is cheaper than the 121, in addition to the whole Eddie Kramer connection which speaks volumes....

thanks

[blueguitar322]

Mics >>>>>>> Preamps. By a long shot. I'd take a great mic with a selection of any number of cheap preamps over the opposite any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

And IMHO, for electric gtr, ribbon mics are better than dynamic mics on average. As far as which ribbon you get, the higher $$ mics like the Royer capture more detail...a bit clearer overall. Other than that, different ribbons have very different responses.

The "classical" ribbon sound is very dark on top with a huuuuuge proximity effect on the bottom. These things can make ribbons awesome for strings, brass, etc but for a guitar cab you'll need a few feet of space. If you have a tiny room, might not be the best thing. More "modern" sounding ribbons (like the R121, AEA R92, Crowley & Tripp Naked Eye) have less proximity effect and more extended top end.

If you're the one doing the recording, I've found mic choice on guitar amps to be a pretty personal thing. I can't stand the fizzy character of a 57 by itself. It's aggressive, yes...so often I'll record the 121 and 57 and blend to taste...but by itself? No thanks.

That said, if a different guitarist walked in the door (especially with high gain sounds) I might think differently. There's a thousand ways to skin this cat...and, in the mix, choice of guitar, amp, and - most importantly - player are much more important.

FWIW I own twenty some odd mics (R121, four chinese-made ribbons, SM57, Audix i5, Shure SM7, Beyer M88, Beyer M201, CAD M179s, Pearlman TM1, some others) and always start with the R121 on electric guitars. I use Seventh Circle Audio preamps mostly but also have a Mackie Onyx 800R and RME Fireface 800.

Dave

P.S. Everyone has different priorities, but if I wasn't seriously pursuing recording as an occupation, and I were just recording myself / my band, I wouldn't spend the cash on a super nice mic. Pick up an Apex 205/210 or Nady RSM-2, do a google search on simple mods you can do to clean up the sound a little bit, and be done. Don't worry about limited preamp gain...not with electric guitars. Save the cash for time at a real studio.

[PMcC]

late to chime in,
R121 and 57 work so well together,..I too use the R121 into a Great River pre

a couple tracks with R121 and 57 blend.

www.petermccarthy.net/polareyesbadger.mp3
www.petermccarthy.net/sounds/KingsRansom.mp3

PMcC