Kinda depressed after what should have been a great gigging experience.

[Tbone135]

I got the opportunity to play with some excellent musicians and great guys through the weekend, but I'm bummed out about it since hearing the soundboard recordings this morning. The other player sounded great on it, and my rig sounded distant and washed out. I went through a DRRI + pedalboard and a tele/ES-135 combo. The other player went with a PRS + similar pedalboard to a Budda 30 watter. My rig sounded great onstage, but I shudder thinking that it could've sounded so terrible to the PA. Just venting, I suppose.

[jmadill]

Just remember, the soundboard only gets as much signal that is necessary to balance out what the amp puts out and the front of house system.

That means if your amp is loud on stage, there will be less going through the board, and much of what you are hearing may be bleed thru on the other mics on the stage.

In a live show, what the house hears will always be more important than what gets recorded, so there's still a good chance that you and your gear sounded great.

-jm

[Tbone135]

Yeah, hopefully the crowd got a better mix than what I heard. This soundman gives me fits though. I work really hard on my sound, and I hate when I get results like I heard today.

[Joe Boy]

Yeah, hopefully the crowd got a better mix than what I heard. This soundman gives me fits though. I work really hard on my sound, and I hate when I get results like I heard today.

I'm thinking your sound guy did it on purpose.

[derekd]

I wouldn't sweat it. We regularly listen to recordings at the board for quick feedback, and live almost always sounds better in my experience when I run sound.

[Shawn S.]

I'm thinking your sound guy did it on purpose.

Fear the sound guy. They're out to get us.

[Tbone135]

He's a nice guy, he just doesn't know sound like he thinks he does. Plus the other player sounded fantastic through on the disc.

[Shawn S.]

...he just doesn't know sound like he thinks he does...

That's a common problem. In seriousness, I'm sure he had the best of intentions. Maybe it's the amp? (duck!), and by that I mean, the DRRI has less punch in the middle like what I'd think a Budda would have, along with him using a PRS which is a very powerful guitar in the midrange maybe just sounds more full and more there. Maybe your level on stage was good and balanced, but if he took an amp that isn't quite there in the mid so much, and dropped it, it'd be very noticeable.

Don't take what I say too seriously, I don't really know what I'm talking about. Everything I say when it comes to tone and sound seems so distant from what others consider.

With that said, a DRRI is a great amp and sits great in the mix, but maybe teamed up under the right conditions, at the right place in the world at the right time with the humidity variety; might dip a bit from what's expected.

That dips a phenomenon. Sometimes things sound great, sometimes the same exact thing/situation doesn't.

[roknfnrol]

Fear the sound guy. They're out to get us.

My last gig:

Soundguy: "do I need to give you all the 'stage volume' speech"

Me: "only if you want to, I ignore that speech every time all the time" ;)

[ToneLounge]

While after gig audio review can be enlightening, I have found it's a slippery slope when it causes you to start second guessing your experience. I consider playing live an "in the moment" experience, and focus on making the song/moment happen. Poor note choices, clams, gear tweaks and such are never remembered by your audience - but they will remember the great time they had watching you with their friends, dancing, worshipping, whatever.

It's quite possible the tone you had last night was perfect for the room, created excitement, and in part... made the moment happen.

Now for discussion sake: mic type and placement can have a huge impact on your sound... (now about that slope:crazy)

[Shiny McShine]

I got the opportunity to play with some excellent musicians and great guys through the weekend, but I'm bummed out about it since hearing the soundboard recordings this morning. The other player sounded great on it, and my rig sounded distant and washed out. I went through a DRRI + pedalboard and a tele/ES-135 combo. The other player went with a PRS + similar pedalboard to a Budda 30 watter. My rig sounded great onstage, but I shudder thinking that it could've sounded so terrible to the PA. Just venting, I suppose.

In my humble experience, I always record what is present coming from the stage by using large cardioid microphones from the perspective of the audience for best results.

I will never record from the board.

[KSKONDOR]

I agree...It's hard to judge your performance based on the board.

[3 Mile Stone]

+1 on that as well. Live mikes give you a much better idea of what the audience is actually hearing. Try this. Get your self one of those new relatively inexpensive digital recorder with the built in mic and see for yourself.

[Joe Gamble]

+1 o that as well. Live mikes give you a much better idea of what the audience is actually hearing. Try this. Get your self one of those new relatively inexpensive digital recorder with the built in mic and see for yourself.

Absolutely. I wouldn't ever bother with soundboard mixes. I heard some of the best cats on the planet sound like doo-doo on those. It's also one of the worst things you can do for your ego.:p

Your tele/DRRI was probably cutting really well without the aid of too much PA. The PRS probably not so much. This could be why you are sounding mosquito-ish on the recording. If you were digging it on stage and no one complained I'll bet it was just right.

[Grun]

Next time get one of those little self contained recorders and make your own recording of what the house was actually hearing.

[jjboogie]

I got the opportunity to play with some excellent musicians and great guys through the weekend, but I'm bummed out about it since hearing the soundboard recordings this morning. The other player sounded great on it, and my rig sounded distant and washed out. I went through a DRRI + pedalboard and a tele/ES-135 combo. The other player went with a PRS + similar pedalboard to a Budda 30 watter. My rig sounded great onstage, but I shudder thinking that it could've sounded so terrible to the PA. Just venting, I suppose.


99% of the time Soundboard recordings sound awful to me........most sound guys are paying more attention to getting a good mix for the venue than for the recording so the recording aspects gets no TLC! Plus a lot of those boards are not really designed for recording even if they have some capability........

Don't worry about it......I have done so many gigs were my rig sounded phenomenal to me and manager who sits out front then only later hear the recording off the board and it makes me want to puke! :barf

[russ6100]

jmadill responded correctly.

A straight tap off the board (the same mix that's going to the mains) is naturally not representative of what you sounded like out front, for the reasons that jmadill already gave you.

Unless you have evidence that it sounded badly out front, you have no reason to blame your sound man for anything.

That sort of board tap is only good for letting you guys know if you were in tune, rhythmically on, etc.. - the levels mean zero.

[mad dog]

This is a reassuring discussion, as I had the same experience two Friday's ago. On stage, it felt great. Hard to tell sound, as we were loud, amps were miked but monitors had little or nothing. (No soundcheck.) My bassplayer takes a crappy little recorder and tapes it. I heard that and it totally spoiled my weekend. Very different than what I remember. I'm virtually non-existant on the tape.

Thinking more rationally, I trust my own perceptions more than a crappy little tape recorder, which wasn't even in front of me. What sticks with me is how fragile the memory of live music is ... it's almost an altered consciousness to begin with. Very easy to doubt it, and once I heard that tape I was filled with doubts.

[Redhouse-Blues]

This is a reassuring discussion,

I agree! I had the same experience this weekend, I played two gig's in two different room's and recorded them from the board. On stage and in the room everything sounded good I thought and was told. But when I listen back to the recording's, I didn't like what I heard at all, I was hardly in the mix.

[niangelo]

Like these guys said, your volume on the recording is directly proportional to your stage volume. If you're loud on stage, you're giving the sound guy less dynamic range to have you in the mix, and you'll get turned down.

Unless the recording was post-produced to recreate the actual house levels, or you actually got to stand in front of the stage while someone played your guitar, you'll never know what the mix really sounds like. Direct-from-board recordings provide terrible reference.

[Tbone135]

Yeah, I know not to rely on the soundboard tapes, but I do mic offstage nearly every time except for this past weekend.

[Holliman]

I can't stand soundboard recordings. They NEVER sound authentic to me.

[buddaman71]

Don't stress. Direct to 2-trk board recordings typically sound terrible and almost nothing like what the sound in the room was like. Next time, use a small digital recorder or stereo mic the room to hear what it really sounded like.

[daddyo]

Too many variables with a soundboard recording.
Boards have a send pot to an aux out to the tape deck. Did anybody check this mix?
Often, the amp is loud enough so only a small amount of FOH reinforcing is necessary. The sounman would pobably trim the input pot so the slider would be at 0db for unity gain. This would reduce the signal to the aux out to the deck. 2 examples.

[rockstarzusa]

Just a comment on the soundguy responses.....

The Soundguy has the power to destroy you, and some will. If there is an attitude towards them don't expect to sound good, what does it matter 99% of the people there will think it's you, not them....

I always, ALWAYS make it a point to be a soundguy's 'dream' client. To be the only one that isn't told to turn down, or to stop playing while he is dialing in another band member, and to only play when asked to do so. You would be surprsied how far that type of approach will carry you. I have landed gigs, and even an overseas tour off the recommendation from soundguys when asked for some players who handlded themselves professionally.

If you are fulltime in the music business, treat it like the business it is.

[Tbone135]

Thanks for the kind words, y'all. I think I will grab a minirecorder for a more telling snapshot.

[RGB]

Thanks for the kind words, y'all. I think I will grab a minirecorder for a more telling snapshot.

I have an Olympus LS-10 and have been recording gigs...it sounds a lot better than I thought it would, but the biggest drawback is the crowd noise. Finding a good spot to record from has been tough. I tried putting it in the same vicinity as my ears and that seems to work pretty well...although, the vocals are coming from the monitor mix, (dry), so if you're running multiple mixes you'd have to let the other guys into your mix.

[Guitar55]

The Zoom H2 is your friend.

[Realfi]

Just remember, the soundboard only gets as much signal that is necessary to balance out what the amp puts out and the front of house system.

That means if your amp is loud on stage, there will be less going through the board, and much of what you are hearing may be bleed thru on the other mics on the stage.



+1 & as others have said don't fret too much about a desk recording under these circumstances as it's possibly not that representative of what things sounded like on the night.

Having said that though, I don't know how you're running your amp but remember:-

1) Unless you're in very sparse musical situation using anything beyond a small amount of reverb will tend to place you back in the mix-your sound will blend in more with the general wash of things like cymbals and effects used on the front of house. The reverb setting you use in a small carpeted room at home with lots of soft furnishings will need to be rolled back significantly in a live band situation.

2) You need some mid range. I would also advocate turning the mids up on your amp compared to what might sound good at home. Your deluxe has a bit of a mid dip in the EQ as it is so you'll possibly need a bit of extra mid punch to place yourself in the mix with authority.

[BadAssBill]

WOW! I thought i was the only one that liked live recordings so much more than the board, seperate rooms, etc. I've worked with some pretty talented recording guys with good equipment, and it doesn't sound as good as a well placed mic in a live room.

[The Scrutinizer]

yup, board mixes are depressing and are not a accurate reflection of the FOH mix

The best thig to do is drop a couple of ambients in the crowd (provided no one steals them( plus the board recording