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b1adefury
02-23-2009, 06:24 PM
Hey guys, im new here. They say that this is where the gear experts are.. lol

I am looking for a od/dist pedal that can do a great Appetite for Destruction tone.. crunchy, snarly and harsh in a pleasant way. Note that I am not looking specifically for a slash tone and I don't think his UYD, snakepit or VR tones are fantastic.

I am using a blackheart little giant and a les paul. Any ideas?

Thanks!

sense_of_henry
02-23-2009, 06:26 PM
klon

b1adefury
02-23-2009, 06:27 PM
klon

checking it out now

Doug
02-23-2009, 06:31 PM
klon

Respectfully, I wholeheartedly disagree. Try a high gain Marshall-type pedal such as the MI Audio Crunch Box. The Klon can do gain, but not Appetite gain IMO. The Klon is designed to take what your amp is currently giving you, and just giving you more of it (if that makes any sense).

rust1975
02-23-2009, 06:32 PM
Proco Rat. Period. End of thread.

Scumback Speakers
02-23-2009, 06:34 PM
If you're running a Marshall type amp, I'd suggest going another route and get your amp modded by Dave Friedman. He runs RackSystemsLTD in North Hollywood.

Here's a clip (Pete Thorn on guitar) using a modded Plexi RI with his Custom 45, Brown Eye and Hairy Brown Eye mods. I think the Hairy Brown Eye mod is the one you're looking for to do AFD tones.

http://www.scumbackspeakers.com/m75clips/m75-rs-thorn.mp3

b1adefury
02-23-2009, 06:37 PM
Respectfully, I wholeheartedly disagree. Try a high gain Marshall-type pedal such as the MI Audio Crunch Box. The Klon can do gain, but not Appetite gain IMO. The Klon is designed to take what your amp is currently giving you, and just giving you more of it (if that makes any sense).

I have been looking at the crunch box for a long time. I do think it sounds fkin good but it doesnt quite nail the AFD tone. Can any crunch box users here disprove me?

b1adefury
02-23-2009, 06:40 PM
Proco Rat. Period. End of thread.

Yes I do think the Rat has a lot of the AFD characteristics, but from clips I have heard it is too harsh and fuzzy. It sounds a little like Nirvana which is too grungy for AFD. Can it be tweaked to remove that Kurt Cobainness ? Or am I totally wrong about the Rat?

b1adefury
02-23-2009, 06:43 PM
If you're running a Marshall type amp, I'd suggest going another route and get your amp modded by Dave Friedman. He runs RackSystemsLTD in North Hollywood.

Here's a clip (Pete Thorn on guitar) using a modded Plexi RI with his Custom 45, Brown Eye and Hairy Brown Eye mods. I think the Hairy Brown Eye mod is the one you're looking for to do AFD tones.

http://www.scumbackspeakers.com/m75clips/m75-rs-thorn.mp3

Oh my god, it sounds quite close. A little bit modern sounding but yea it definitely has the AFD vibe. I am using a blackheart little giant though.

Cheap Trick
02-23-2009, 06:58 PM
Try a crunch box or a Rat pedal, plus an eq pedal to get that sound.

b1adefury
02-23-2009, 07:02 PM
Try a crunch box or a Rat pedal, plus an eq pedal to get that sound.

Good idea. If i get the Rat do I have to get the old one or will the new rat 2 work fine?

Moe45673
02-23-2009, 07:25 PM
The RAT can get you a lot of the way there, but I do agree that without the right amp it can be a little sterile

Personally, I think the Tonebone Hot British can nail Slash's intro to Sweet Child o Mine.... the only downside is it may be too gainy. I'd also recommend having a look at the Monte Allums Sustainia modded MT-2. Don't dismiss it outta hand, it rocks!

todd richman
02-23-2009, 07:31 PM
Get one of the #39 Amps from Tim Caswell-he is the guy who modded the Marshall that belonged to SIR and was used by Slash on AFD and also George Lynch around the same time.

rust1975
02-23-2009, 07:31 PM
Here's the secret to using the Rat. Drive around noon, preferably under. Yeah, it can be buzzy but at lower gain settings it's pure raunchy distortion which is what you want. Trust me, I was a big GnR fan and of all the pedals I've owned (including the Crunch Box, lame and overhyped IMHO) this is what you want.

Sniper-V
02-23-2009, 07:34 PM
Respectfully, I wholeheartedly disagree. Try a high gain Marshall-type pedal such as the MI Audio Crunch Box. The Klon can do gain, but not Appetite gain IMO. The Klon is designed to take what your amp is currently giving you, and just giving you more of it (if that makes any sense).

+1

I'm not sure if there is a pedal that will pull AFD off.
AFD, is a lot of amp to my ears.
But if I had to pick something, it would be Marshall-inspired pedals.

b1adefury
02-23-2009, 07:51 PM
Here's the secret to using the Rat. Drive around noon, preferably under. Yeah, it can be buzzy but at lower gain settings it's pure raunchy distortion which is what you want. Trust me, I was a big GnR fan and of all the pedals I've owned (including the Crunch Box, lame and overhyped IMHO) this is what you want.

Thanks man. I am 3/4 convinced that I need a Rat right now. Is there a specific version of the Rat that I should get?

b1adefury
02-23-2009, 07:52 PM
Get one of the #39 Amps from Tim Caswell-he is the guy who modded the Marshall that belonged to SIR and was used by Slash on AFD and also George Lynch around the same time.

This would be the best option but I'm afraid it would be overkill for my uses now.

bjjp2
02-23-2009, 07:52 PM
Wampler Super Plextortion

b1adefury
02-23-2009, 07:54 PM
+1

I'm not sure if there is a pedal that will pull AFD off.
AFD, is a lot of amp to my ears.
But if I had to pick something, it would be Marshall-inspired pedals.

You're right, it is a lot of amp. Even slash has failed to recreate his AFD tone using his newer Marshalls. I guess I just want to get in the ballpark.. that tone isnt THAT complex! it sounds so raw.. surely there is a pedal out there that can emulate that tone reasonably well?

cube
02-23-2009, 08:13 PM
purple plexi 800 can get close ..its does 80's tone easy

rust1975
02-23-2009, 08:23 PM
Contrary to Axl's love for Chinese Democracy, stay away from Rat 2's made in China. Ideally, late 90's Rat or really one with the LM308 chip. I had a Keeley one that nailed it.

b1adefury
02-23-2009, 08:30 PM
purple plexi 800 can get close ..its does 80's tone easy

I just heard it in the proguitarshop youtube demo.. it doesn't sound like welcome to the jungle at all!

b1adefury
02-23-2009, 08:33 PM
Contrary to Axl's love for Chinese Democracy, stay away from Rat 2's made in China. Ideally, late 90's Rat or really one with the LM308 chip. I had a Keeley one that nailed it.

ok thanks man. i'll be on the lookout now

fellsilver
02-23-2009, 08:49 PM
The LM308 Rats are great, but I just had a very interesting experience-- AB'd an LM308 Rat with my late 90's Turbo, and, really and truly, the Turbo was closer to that raw, AFD type tone. In fact, AFD was the first thing I thought of when I got the Turbo. So, I'll respectfully disagree and put up the Turbo Rat as my pick for where you're headed. Also woulnd't hurt if your LP had Duncan Alnico II's or some other PAF-ish thing with slightly scooped mids!

big mike
02-23-2009, 08:51 PM
You're not getting AFD out of a blackheart IMO.

waggclan
02-23-2009, 08:54 PM
If you're running a Marshall type amp, I'd suggest going another route and get your amp modded by Dave Friedman. He runs RackSystemsLTD in North Hollywood.

Here's a clip (Pete Thorn on guitar) using a modded Plexi RI with his Custom 45, Brown Eye and Hairy Brown Eye mods. I think the Hairy Brown Eye mod is the one you're looking for to do AFD tones.

http://www.scumbackspeakers.com/m75clips/m75-rs-thorn.mp3


:drool WOW!!! :drool

LowWatt
02-23-2009, 08:55 PM
klon

Wow. New poster with a sincere question and you use him for satire. Where's your sense henry? Not a classy move.

I do think you'd be on to something with the Rat for AFD tones. ROll the filter back so it is a little warmer. Use the bridge pickup for a lot of the rhythym and roll back your tone a little on the neck for some of the leads.

todd richman
02-23-2009, 09:07 PM
Don't forget about the Hartman LM308 Distorion-great pedal and Theo's work is impeccable and reasonable. The Hartman version of the RAT is terrific. Here's the link:

http://www.hartmanelectronicstore.com/product.sc?categoryId=11&productId=18

longgonedaddy
02-23-2009, 09:15 PM
not much help, but thanks for reminding me about this album! I'm listening to it right now.:dude

roquero
02-23-2009, 09:22 PM
Rockbox Boiling Point LE Overdrive pedal

b1adefury
02-23-2009, 09:36 PM
The LM308 Rats are great, but I just had a very interesting experience-- AB'd an LM308 Rat with my late 90's Turbo, and, really and truly, the Turbo was closer to that raw, AFD type tone. In fact, AFD was the first thing I thought of when I got the Turbo. So, I'll respectfully disagree and put up the Turbo Rat as my pick for where you're headed. Also woulnd't hurt if your LP had Duncan Alnico II's or some other PAF-ish thing with slightly scooped mids!

Wow ok.. from what I've heard the turbo sounded metallish. I guess videos and soundclips don't really do justice to pedals and amps. There are amps that I've demoed that sound totally different in real life. I'll try to find a chance to try the turbo out. May I ask what amp you are using it through?

I do have A2P's in my LP. Interestingly, I don't find that they nail the AFD tone. It sounds like slash when he plays live, but nothing like the album recording. There is speculation that slash used other guitars and pickups on the record and I think that there might be an element of truth in there.

b1adefury
02-23-2009, 09:37 PM
Don't forget about the Hartman LM308 Distorion-great pedal and Theo's work is impeccable and reasonable. The Hartman version of the RAT is terrific. Here's the link:

http://www.hartmanelectronicstore.com/product.sc?categoryId=11&productId=18

I am a newbie when it comes to technical specs. Is this just a Rat with an added overdrive function?

b1adefury
02-23-2009, 09:44 PM
You're not getting AFD out of a blackheart IMO.

Care to elaborate? I used to think that it was only possible to nail the tone using Marshall stacks... until I heard scorpio1978, kobiba and puromojo on youtube. The stuff they used: peavey classic chorus (solid state), marshall avt20 and line6 pod

big mike
02-23-2009, 09:49 PM
Need more watts behind it. IMO.

Besides that, Even Slash hasn't been able to nail that again. Just the way that stuff works. A LOT is done at the board.

forum_crawler
02-23-2009, 10:01 PM
klon

:roll You forgot OCD, BOR, etc...

:mob

iwantmypie
02-23-2009, 10:06 PM
i can't believe no one has mentioned the boss ds1 yet. probably one of the best known distortion pedals out there next to the rat and big muff. IMHO the stock ds1 does nothing but raunchy and raw. as b1adefury was asking for, the ds1 is definitly "crunchy, snarly and harsh" but not always in a pleasent way. if its set right i think this would be the route to go.

b1adefury
02-23-2009, 10:09 PM
i can't believe no one has mentioned the boss ds1 yet. probably one of the best known distortion pedals out there next to the rat and big muff. IMHO the stock ds1 does nothing but raunchy and raw. as b1adefury was asking for, the ds1 is definitly "crunchy, snarly and harsh" but not always in a pleasent way. if its set right i think this would be the route to go.

i've tried it.. its definitely harsh but in an unpleasant way.. like a can of bees.

cube
02-23-2009, 10:20 PM
I just heard it in the proguitarshop youtube demo.. it doesn't sound like welcome to the jungle at all!

were they trying?

b1adefury
02-23-2009, 10:26 PM
were they trying?

yup. first tune he played. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPuOmPqwqIE

GuiltySpark
02-24-2009, 03:05 PM
Get one of the #39 Amps from Tim Caswell-he is the guy who modded the Marshall that belonged to SIR and was used by Slash on AFD and also George Lynch around the same time.

Close... #39 was used by Lynch and for the AFD rehersals. A clone of that (#36) was used by Slash for recording. It was modded by Glenn Buckley, and based on Tim's mod.

Apparently, this tone was hard to get out of a Marshall. Much less a pedal. Read more here: http://www.slashsworld.com/equipment/the-appetite-amp-story

For a quick pedal to get you in this basic territory, the Wampler Plextortion was ok for me.

eclipseall
02-24-2009, 04:14 PM
MXR Distoriton +
Bottom Channel of the MXR DoubleShot also, great plexi tone

ibzmav
02-24-2009, 06:48 PM
Direct Drive...

RAT's are too soft for palm-muted riffs.

Ed G.
02-24-2009, 07:27 PM
i've tried it.. its definitely harsh but in an unpleasant way.. like a can of bees.

There's a lot of mods out there that open it up a bit and make it easier to dial in the tone. I agree that out of a lot of pedals, the DS-1 gets close to that character.

notpetrucci
02-24-2009, 07:33 PM
Reeza?

Again, (it's been said) AFD tone is great board work.

-Jon

cube
02-24-2009, 09:11 PM
yup. first tune he played. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPuOmPqwqIE


wow, your right .. my rig gets closer than the 65 soho and G&L .. but your right that clip does not get close

waggclan
02-24-2009, 09:47 PM
Need more watts behind it. IMO.

Besides that, Even Slash hasn't been able to nail that again. Just the way that stuff works. A LOT is done at the board.

:agree

Kapo_Polenton
02-24-2009, 09:55 PM
Friedman's amp mods will get you closest to my ear as well.. i had emailed him about those as when i heard it, it was that close to me. I've tried modding my jcm800 clone and it was close but still missing. Sounded the best with GE-7 pushing it which is what slash used for the solos apparently. (from his site along with all the #36,39 info).

I'd also agree that a lot of it was at the board. they cut a lot of the meat and made it cut more. Sweet child intro is 100 watt Marshall with a cry baby, i read that a while back. This has gotten me closest is the wah straight down, tone rolled back on neck pickup and bam pretty much the intro if you add reverb. You can hear the switch in tone in the main solo where #39 or 36 or whatever kicks in... closest i have gotten is my jcm800 + SD-1 for slight grainy thin boost + GE-7 in an upside down frown and an epiphone with Alnico II's.

david lee rose
02-25-2009, 03:19 AM
Chinese democracy starts now!!!
w.axl rose is the emperor

b1adefury
02-25-2009, 10:38 AM
Direct Drive...

RAT's are too soft for palm-muted riffs.

interesting suggestion.. i always thought the DD was a mild overdrive. is it hard hitting enough for AFD? i think it sounds good though

Pat Healy
02-25-2009, 10:46 AM
interesting suggestion.. i always thought the DD was a mild overdrive. is it hard hitting enough for AFD? i think it sounds good though

The Direct Drive is not a mild overdrive. It does have a lot of gain on tap. That said, the DD's tonal character is all wrong for AFD. Nailing that tone is all about having the right amp.

b1adefury
02-25-2009, 10:48 AM
This has gotten me closest is the wah straight down, tone rolled back on neck pickup and bam pretty much the intro if you add reverb. You can hear the switch in tone in the main solo where #39 or 36 or whatever kicks in... closest i have gotten is my jcm800 + SD-1 for slight grainy thin boost + GE-7 in an upside down frown and an epiphone with Alnico II's.

Interesting that you mentioned the wah. I've always thought that his wah might actually have quite a significant impact on his tone.. even if he isn't using it in the song.

FrankieSixxxgun
02-25-2009, 10:50 AM
Ain't no pedal that's gonna do what Slash's finger can do through an honest Marshall Jubilee. The Jube is its own kinda thing.

Kapo_Polenton
02-25-2009, 12:25 PM
I'd consider a ceriatone jubilee too for the tone... i also do think that the wah is a large part of his tone. Just too nasal in my setup right now..his tech even showed that dunlop q zone which is a fixed wah is it not?

Bjlau102
02-25-2009, 07:12 PM
Yeah i got an epiphone copy les paul and im gonna build a silver jubilee soon, but currently I have a Marshall MG10CD tiny $80.00 practice amp,I have a boss blues driver pedal, alnico II pro humbuckers in the guitar, a slash signature wah and Im tryin to get that same tone, the really sharp, yet crunchy tone from appetite, i cant tell if its on treble or rhythm cause it sounds so good! Its sounds thin because of its crunchiness, yet thick because of its rich sound. A good example of this is the ending of rocket queen or the main riff of nightrain.

Darkburst
02-25-2009, 07:18 PM
Slash did not use a Jubilee until after the recording of AFD. The 2555 is big part of his live sound, but he's recorded with it very few times.

VA_siCkBoy
02-25-2009, 07:36 PM
http://guitargeek.com/gear/img/marshall_2550_silver_jub.gifhttp://www.ronlindeman.com/gibson%20%20Les%20Paul%2059%20Standard.jpghttp://www.1-877-spirits.com/store/images/large/Jack-Daniels-Tennessee-Whiskey-lg.jpg.jpg

b1adefury
02-25-2009, 08:26 PM
why all this talk about slash only? remember izzy is also part of that AFD tone.. anyway omg I think this sounds quite like it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaspIJ6YV8U.

b1adefury
02-25-2009, 08:29 PM
Yeah i got an epiphone copy les paul and im gonna build a silver jubilee soon, but currently I have a Marshall MG10CD tiny $80.00 practice amp,I have a boss blues driver pedal, alnico II pro humbuckers in the guitar, a slash signature wah and Im tryin to get that same tone, the really sharp, yet crunchy tone from appetite, i cant tell if its on treble or rhythm cause it sounds so good! Its sounds thin because of its crunchiness, yet thick because of its rich sound. A good example of this is the ending of rocket queen or the main riff of nightrain.

I think you described that tone right.. and that is exactly what I am searching for. Other than sweet child, slash definitely uses the bridge pickup predominantly in the album.

I find that A2P pickups don't really suit AFD's tone. It definitely sounds like slash when he plays live, which is totally different from what you hear in the album. His live sound was much smoother and rounder, much less bitey than the recording.

b1adefury
02-25-2009, 08:30 PM
http://guitargeek.com/gear/img/marshall_2550_silver_jub.gifhttp://www.ronlindeman.com/gibson%20%20Les%20Paul%2059%20Standard.jpghttp://www.1-877-spirits.com/store/images/large/Jack-Daniels-Tennessee-Whiskey-lg.jpg.jpg

He did not record all the songs on AFD using a les paul.

Kapo_Polenton
02-25-2009, 10:57 PM
Good point on the pickups.. sometimes i find the alnico II's too fat and they remind me more of his illusion sound and live sound. But that live at the Ritz and AFD is really biting. Maybe the LEs Paul copy that was used was thinner bodied than a standard les paul. Do we know what pickups were in those original guitars?? because my alnico's miss that thin crunch.

Kapo_Polenton
02-25-2009, 10:59 PM
By the way, the lovepedal is nowhere close in my opinion.

b1adefury
02-25-2009, 11:42 PM
Good point on the pickups.. sometimes i find the alnico II's too fat and they remind me more of his illusion sound and live sound. But that live at the Ritz and AFD is really biting. Maybe the LEs Paul copy that was used was thinner bodied than a standard les paul. Do we know what pickups were in those original guitars?? because my alnico's miss that thin crunch.

Slash's a2p neck soloing tone in the illusions albums is very recognizable (november rain, knocking on heaven's door, estranged, etc). I can replicate it reasonably well with my a2p's on almost any amp. However, to my ears, his AFD tone was not a2p-like at all.

The GnR sound in the Ritz gig was more AFD-like than in the illusions tour, I think it was because of Gilby Clarke (he destroyed the GnR rhythm sound imo). However, the Ritz sound was still quite different. You can hear the difference, Slash's tone was warmer and smoother than in the recording.

Slash only got his first les paul during the process of recording the album, not before. He mentioned that he used BC richs and Jackson guitars. There are also pictures of him playing Jacksons. Listen to Nighttrain. There are some sounds similar to divebombs that he doesn't do live. I have read that he might have even used some pedals. No one knows exactly what guitars or pickups he used for which songs. I don't think he is at the liberty to divulge either since he is endorsed by gibson,seymour duncan and marshall.

We are led to believe that Slash's sound has always typically been a les paul with a2p's through a marshall. However, I don't think that was entirely the case with AFD.

Iceman8.6
02-26-2009, 12:43 AM
Speakers are important! Did he use Green Backs? I can get in the ball park AFD tones using a Barber Drty Bomb into a Egnater Rebel 20.

blastastick
02-26-2009, 01:15 AM
He used a Les Paul with SD AlNiCo II pickups, a JCM800 2203, and Vintage 30's for the album. Don't know if a pedal will ever get you there.

sxt
02-26-2009, 05:15 AM
its the amp - ....

my soultone 45me in "jcm 800" mode easily does it ...

BUT surprisingly my dsl401 (with JJs and V30) when fully cranked also does it ...

AND I play a strat !

Don A
02-26-2009, 06:22 AM
Google "ruetz rat mod". I performed this simple mod on a Tonepad based Rat clone that I built. It removes the fuzzy harshness. It became a Marshall in a box.

Yes I do think the Rat has a lot of the AFD characteristics, but from clips I have heard it is too harsh and fuzzy. It sounds a little like Nirvana which is too grungy for AFD. Can it be tweaked to remove that Kurt Cobainness ? Or am I totally wrong about the Rat?

Iceman8.6
02-26-2009, 10:04 AM
He used a Les Paul with SD AlNiCo II pickups, a JCM800 2203, and Vintage 30's for the album. Don't know if a pedal will ever get you there.

Were the V30's out when they were recording AFD?

LowWatt
02-26-2009, 10:24 AM
Were the V30's out when they were recording AFD?

Yep. Should have been. I think the first V30s were shipped with the Marshall Studio 15 in about 1985/86.

Kapo_Polenton
02-26-2009, 10:49 PM
Let's hear some clips of you guys who think you are in the ball park?

I think AFD would more than likely be greenbacks or g1265's rather than v30's. I also think the Ritz gig tone is not as gainy as what was on the album. He doesn't really have the sustain in the lead work. I also agree that the mockingbird was probably used more than we think given the whammy dive in night train and then how similar that tone sounds to some of the other tunes on the album. I will say that some people have mentioned that the caswell mod is thin and bright so maybe with eq and tweaking, a Les Paul could be there. Soo much speculation. I actually think getting something like the new empress para eq and emphasizing the mid and treb and cutting bass might get ya close.

b1adefury
02-26-2009, 11:52 PM
Let's hear some clips of you guys who think you are in the ball park?

I think AFD would more than likely be greenbacks or g1265's rather than v30's. I also think the Ritz gig tone is not as gainy as what was on the album. He doesn't really have the sustain in the lead work. I also agree that the mockingbird was probably used more than we think given the whammy dive in night train and then how similar that tone sounds to some of the other tunes on the album. I will say that some people have mentioned that the caswell mod is thin and bright so maybe with eq and tweaking, a Les Paul could be there. Soo much speculation. I actually think getting something like the new empress para eq and emphasizing the mid and treb and cutting bass might get ya close.

I think he used G12H30's, but no one knows for sure.

This guy has got it almost nailed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOh6duFNMo8.
Amazing. He is using a pod xt

b1adefury
02-26-2009, 11:54 PM
This guy's got it too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJMn2SOc7L8&feature=related

kludge
02-27-2009, 11:49 AM
Close... #39 was used by Lynch and for the AFD rehersals. A clone of that (#36) was used by Slash for recording. It was modded by Glenn Buckley, and based on Tim's mod.

Apparently, this tone was hard to get out of a Marshall. Much less a pedal. Read more here: http://www.slashsworld.com/equipment/the-appetite-amp-story

For a quick pedal to get you in this basic territory, the Wampler Plextortion was ok for me.

Thanks for this link! It was a really interesting read. I've been deep into Slash's Appetite tone lately, even though it's not necessarily a sound I want for myself.

Kapo_Polenton
02-27-2009, 01:03 PM
Yeah to be honest, the guy with the POD has it the closest to my ears. It has that thin crunchy nasal quality to it but when he digs in , it is juicy. That is the key to that damn tone, it is crunchy AND juicy lol. Did that guy ever share his settings?

GuiltySpark
02-27-2009, 01:36 PM
Yeah to be honest, the guy with the POD has it the closest to my ears. It has that thin crunchy nasal quality to it but when he digs in , it is juicy. That is the key to that damn tone, it is crunchy AND juicy lol. Did that guy ever share his settings?

I can speak from experience that it isn't the factory AFD patch included with the X3 Live. It was nasty! :messedup

b1adefury
02-27-2009, 01:48 PM
Yeah to be honest, the guy with the POD has it the closest to my ears. It has that thin crunchy nasal quality to it but when he digs in , it is juicy. That is the key to that damn tone, it is crunchy AND juicy lol. Did that guy ever share his settings?

Yess.. nasal, crunchy, juicy. I've seen him mention the amp simulation he used but I forgot if he mentioned the exact settings. You could just pm him I think he's a pretty helpful guy.

buddaman71
02-27-2009, 02:47 PM
I would definitely agree much more with the Rat than the Klon. The Klon is just too TS-ish and not gainy enough for the more "leady" AFD tones IMHO.

Bjlau102
03-01-2009, 08:48 PM
He did not record all the songs on AFD using a les paul.


Yes he did, it was a copy of a 59' but this tone is frustrating me, any suggestions as to what pickups to use instead of the Alnicos to get that tone? EMGs? IDK

big mike
03-01-2009, 08:49 PM
Yes he did, it was a copy of a 59' but this tone is frustrating me, any suggestions as to what pickups to use instead of the Alnicos to get that tone? EMGs? IDK


Actually Rocket Queen is an SG.

Bjlau102
03-01-2009, 08:51 PM
I dont get how the sound on the November rain solo is so fat if he's using the neck pickup?

big mike
03-01-2009, 08:54 PM
I dont get how the sound on the November rain solo is so fat if he's using the neck pickup?


What?

b1adefury
03-01-2009, 08:57 PM
I dont get how the sound on the November rain solo is so fat if he's using the neck pickup?

:jo

Demioblue
03-01-2009, 10:02 PM
I dont get how the sound on the November rain solo is so fat if he's using the neck pickup?

Roll down the tone knob on the LP for the neck pup for the solo. That's wat he did... so he says...

I think the Hardwire SC2 Valve Distortion gives a nice AFD tone... Or at least that's what my ears are telling me through my Fender PRRI. Then again, it COULD be the Slash GT LP I'm using...:)

b1adefury
03-01-2009, 10:35 PM
Roll down the tone knob on the LP for the neck pup for the solo. That's wat he did... so he says...

I think the Hardwire SC2 Valve Distortion gives a nice AFD tone... Or at least that's what my ears are telling me through my Fender PRRI. Then again, it COULD be the Slash GT LP I'm using...:)

Hmm. The hardwire does sound quite close but it is a little thinny from the youtube videos. Is that true for you?

utterhack
03-01-2009, 11:48 PM
I dont get how the sound on the November rain solo is so fat if he's using the neck pickup?

http://www.funnyforumpics.com/forums/This-Thread-Delivers/1/thread_delivers-yon.jpg

Kapo_Polenton
03-03-2009, 10:41 AM
For the november rain effect, roll back the tone on the neck pickup and cock the wah about half way.... you get that bassy/muddy flat tone that is used for that middle solo where he is rockin in front of the church.

dr.C
03-04-2009, 02:05 AM
Actually Rocket Queen is an SG.

Says in Slash's book that My Michelle is an SG (don't know about RQ). I don't think the difference is really audible though. It's not like I hear it.

dr.C
03-04-2009, 02:07 AM
Personally, I wouldn't roll down the tone knob just beacause Slash says he did it. The result will depend on your other gear, pick ups, amp other pedals etc. For me it doesn't do it.

b1adefury
03-04-2009, 03:34 AM
He hardly played on the neck pickup on AFD anyway.

I just bought a RAT from one of the forum members, LPMojoGL. I will report back on its effectiveness in getting that AFD tone with my gear.

big mike
03-04-2009, 07:12 AM
Says in Slash's book that My Michelle is an SG (don't know about RQ). I don't think the difference is really audible though. It's not like I hear it.


That might be what I was thinking....been awhile since I read the book.

Bjlau102
03-06-2009, 11:14 AM
yeah the neck pickup sounds way to thin w/o rolling it back and i saw a guy w/ the appetite tone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOh6duFNMo8&feature=related i think this is it, yet i dont got 400 to burn on a PODxt. I think this particular video is done by using a Tim Caswell modded Plexi.

b1adefury
03-29-2009, 12:50 PM
Ok so I've been playing around with a vintage Rat for the past few weeks, and I can definitely hear some AFD in that pedal. There's that gritty and edgy quality in the sound. However, I wish that it had a more low-end to make muted notes sound better as well as a little more nasal quality to it. Also, I wish that it was a little more open and dynamic and less compressed so that it would be more sensitive to pick attack.

Overall, I am pretty happy with the Rat and with a little more tweaking or perhaps stacking with other pedals it might get me closer to the AFD tone.

ibzmav
03-30-2009, 12:17 AM
bsiab2 on a low gain humbucker

Ming Chow
03-30-2009, 09:18 AM
Overall, I am pretty happy with the Rat and with a little more tweaking or perhaps stacking with other pedals it might get me closer to the AFD tone.

When playing some Guns, I usually use my 2205. Though, last night, I ran my Rat into my AC15. It sounded close. Really close actually.

b1adefury
03-30-2009, 10:03 AM
bsiab2 on a low gain humbucker

Interesting. Which humbucker are you using?

b1adefury
03-30-2009, 10:05 AM
When playing some Guns, I usually use my 2205. Though, last night, I ran my Rat into my AC15. It sounded close. Really close actually.

What were your settings? My distortion is around 2 o'clock. I either put the filter at 7 o'clock and roll back the treble on my amp or filter at 2 o'clock and increase amp treble.. still trying to figure out the perfect balance.

kludge
03-30-2009, 10:20 AM
Ok so I've been playing around with a vintage Rat for the past few weeks, and I can definitely hear some AFD in that pedal. There's that gritty and edgy quality in the sound. However, I wish that it had a more low-end to make muted notes sound better as well as a little more nasal quality to it. Also, I wish that it was a little more open and dynamic and less compressed so that it would be more sensitive to pick attack.

Overall, I am pretty happy with the Rat and with a little more tweaking or perhaps stacking with other pedals it might get me closer to the AFD tone.

Sounds to me like you want a Keeley Rat, or someone else's similar mod. But read this well-researched article (http://www.slashsworld.com/equipment/the-appetite-amp-story/sweet-marshall-o%E2%80%99-mine-part-2-the-breakthrough-case-closed/) about the mystery amp that the author believes was used for the sessions, which the author believes was at least partly responsible for the amazing tone. IMHO, I think any Rat, even a modded one, is going to be a bit too fizzy to really nail that sound. On the other hand, it probably gets closer than any other pedal I've tried.

ibzmav
03-30-2009, 11:04 AM
Interesting. Which humbucker are you using?
I'm using dimarzio breeds (moderate-high output pup)

Looking at you rig, I believe the bsiab2 could do good approximation on the tone you were looking for. I love that album man! :BEER

Scumback Speakers
03-30-2009, 11:08 AM
I'm using dimarzio breeds (moderate-high output pup)

Looking at you rig, I believe the bsiab2 could do good approximation on the tone you were looking for. I love that album man! :BEER
Slash used Duncan Alnico Pro II pickups in the AFD guitar sessions. They're a medium to low output PAF style pickup.

b1adefury
03-30-2009, 12:04 PM
Sounds to me like you want a Keeley Rat, or someone else's similar mod. But read this well-researched article (http://www.slashsworld.com/equipment/the-appetite-amp-story/sweet-marshall-o%E2%80%99-mine-part-2-the-breakthrough-case-closed/) about the mystery amp that the author believes was used for the sessions, which the author believes was at least partly responsible for the amazing tone. IMHO, I think any Rat, even a modded one, is going to be a bit too fizzy to really nail that sound. On the other hand, it probably gets closer than any other pedal I've tried.

Thought about the keeley mod.. I actually REALLY like the sounds I am getting from the Rat so I think I'll keep it stock even if it doesnt nail the AFD sound. I might try to stack it with another pedal to see if it gets closer.. need to do more research.

b1adefury
03-30-2009, 12:05 PM
I'm using dimarzio breeds (moderate-high output pup)

Looking at you rig, I believe the bsiab2 could do good approximation on the tone you were looking for. I love that album man! :BEER
I'll definitely check it out. Thanks for the recommendation! Best album ever.. love every single song!!!

b1adefury
03-30-2009, 12:06 PM
Slash used Duncan Alnico Pro II pickups in the AFD guitar sessions. They're a medium to low output PAF style pickup.

I am still trying to find the right pickups for the sound. I found that A2P's top end too round and smooth for the AFD tone. The percussive pick attack is there though.

kludge
03-30-2009, 12:31 PM
Thought about the keeley mod.. I actually REALLY like the sounds I am getting from the Rat so I think I'll keep it stock even if it doesnt nail the AFD sound. I might try to stack it with another pedal to see if it gets closer.. need to do more research.

I love the stock Rat, too. I don't think you can get quite the sound you want by stacking, though... that fuzzy edge is part of the nature of the Rat. I stack my Rat with a number of different pedals, and all of them just make it dirtier. The Keeley mod (and anyone else who does a clipping mod) gives you assymetric clipping options, which reduces the dirt and fuzz, makes it louder, and generally makes it cleaner and more open-sounding. This isn't necessarily an improvement (I think that's situation-dependent), but it does get you closer to that amp-like, AfD sound. The Keeley mod also changes some caps to get more bass through it, which is pretty common for Rat modders. Personally, I think the stock Rat has the cap values right, but I do like the clipping options with the mods. The cap mods try to recover some bass, but that means a bit muddier sound with less of that Rat clarity. Depends on what you're after, I suppose.

If you want more bass, you might be able to do like managing an old Boogie amp - use a graphic eq AFTER the dirt. Keep the bass low (like a stock Rat) so it doesn't get muddy, and eq the dirt.

Bjlau102
07-20-2009, 12:07 PM
yeah idk, i got the alnicos in my les paul, and with a 6 band eq running into a 100watt marshall g100rcd halfstack, it sounded quite alike. ( I had the eq cutting of all bass frequencies :)

erksin
07-20-2009, 12:14 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltbQlzz5yEo&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ecatalinbread%2Ecom%2FDLS%2 Ehtml&feature=player_embedded

Peeb
08-01-2009, 03:16 PM
yeah the neck pickup sounds way to thin w/o rolling it back and i saw a guy w/ the appetite tone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOh6duFNMo8&feature=related i think this is it, yet i dont got 400 to burn on a PODxt. I think this particular video is done by using a Tim Caswell modded Plexi.
That was amazingly close.

todd richman
08-01-2009, 04:05 PM
Duncan Alnico II Pro Pickups and a Caswell modded metal panel Marshall-you can actually get a replica of that amp from Caswell-I believe it is referred to as #39 which was the SIR rental stock number and also used by George Lynch on Under Lock and Key.

Chonny
08-01-2009, 09:52 PM
The Xotic BB Preamp can cover this type of tone as well.

b1adefury
08-02-2009, 01:22 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltbQlzz5yEo&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ecatalinbread%2Ecom%2FDLS%2 Ehtml&feature=player_embedded

tbh that does not sound like welcome to the jungle at all.. too wimpy and not enough 'stickiness'

dr.C
08-03-2009, 02:09 AM
Agreed, It sounds pretty bad + the intro is played in the wrong way :mad:

tbh that does not sound like welcome to the jungle at all.. too wimpy and not enough 'stickiness'

Kapo_Polenton
09-08-2009, 01:55 PM
LAte posting but if anything, the catalina soundclip really only sounds like Izzy's side , not SLASH's which had way more grind and cut. It is actually quite distorted (not high gain distorted but def more than any JCM800) if you listen to the guitar only tracks of the original recording on youtube..