Pros and dirt

[jtwang]

Would you say that, in general, pro players have fewer dirt pedals on their boards than the typical bedroom player/hobbyist/weekend warrior/TGPer? Although there are plenty of exceptions, I would say clearly "yes". So many pros seem to be perfectly content with a drive or two + a fuzz, whereas hobby players (like myself) think they need 8764729 flavors of dirt - I know I do. I wonder why.

[somedude]

I know that for myself, when I'm doing originals I don't really care too much about nailing this sound or that sound since it's my sound in the first place. However, when I'm playing a cover I feel more inclined to want to sound truer to the original... which in many cases is assisted by having a broad selection of dirt.

[Alter]

Would you say that, in general, pro players have fewer dirt pedals on their boards than the typical bedroom player/hobbyist/weekend warrior/TGPer?

on a given gig board, maybe. but back at home, probably not.. that is, if someone is into pedal od (cause many pros use amps for drive)..

[re-animator]

I think it depends generally on the player.

The thing with pro guitarists is that generally they are interested in carving out a tonal niche for themselves. Think of all the guitarists that are really known for their OD tones. SRV, Jimi, Eric Johnson, Brian May, Santana, etc.

Basically they only have 1 or 2 main overdriven sounds, and they get variance by shading them with dynamics. There's no point in trying to produce a ton of different sounds with pedals because the only thing that's important is "your guitar sound" and its role in the band. Bedroom guys tend to be more indulgent in producing many different tones for their own edification rather than one or two great ones that are awesome with a band.

[mojoslide]

I think the varying shades of OD, distortion, fuzz, etc are much more noticeable at the bedroom level. On a stage in a noisy environment with crowds, sound guys, etc all battling your playing, these minute differences disappear. I play in an originals band, but we still do cover tunes at long shows. I just always use my sound no matter what. I don't really care to approach the original tone - I won't use gain for a clean part of anything like that though...But I spent time getting good tone with a setup that really works for me - that's what I'm gonna use. That's just my way and I've gotten nothing but compliments of my tone.

[mtlin]

I've always been surprised by the number of dirt pedals on the boards of the big acts. If I was playing stadiums, I'd be cranking the snot out of my Plexi's or Vox's. But lots of guitarists who play big venues use a few dirt pedals. I don't get it.

[yellowecho]

I've always been surprised by the number of dirt pedals on the boards of the big acts. If I was playing stadiums, I'd be cranking the snot out of my Plexi's or Vox's. But lots of guitarists who play big venues use a few dirt pedals. I don't get it.
:agree I think a lot of it has to do with the size of a gig and crew. If I could easily transport a few different amps and a switcher, I'd probably only have two dirt boxes... but I don't have roadies :(

[KBN]

I wonder why.

As long as we are speaking in generalized terms... The main difference between a pro player on the stage and someone from an internet forum in their bedroom is that one is a leader and one is a follower. Creator vs. Reproducer. It is not about what you use, it is about what you do. If you have a decent amp, a couple of overdrives and a fuzz, and a tone knob on your guitar, and most importantly, know how to use your gear you will have the history of rock n roll at your fingertips. If you don't, you will have a dozen tubescreamer clones on your bedroom floor.

[Lt_Core]

I think the varying shades of OD, distortion, fuzz, etc are much more noticeable at the bedroom level. On a stage in a noisy environment with crowds, sound guys, etc all battling your playing, these minute differences disappear. I play in an originals band, but we still do cover tunes at long shows. I just always use my sound no matter what. I don't really care to approach the original tone - I won't use gain for a clean part of anything like that though...But I spent time getting good tone with a setup that really works for me - that's what I'm gonna use. That's just my way and I've gotten nothing but compliments of my tone.

+ 1

I've been in a cover band for 4 years and I used to try to get the same tone as the songs we played. Total pain in the butt, especially since 99% of the people couldn't recognize slight shifts in overdrive/distortion/etc. Now I have a clean sound, light OD, medium and high gain by using a few pedals but mostly my Rivera amp.

[bkd_guitarist]

I think the varying shades of OD, distortion, fuzz, etc are much more noticeable at the bedroom level. On a stage in a noisy environment with crowds, sound guys, etc all battling your playing, these minute differences disappear. I play in an originals band, but we still do cover tunes at long shows. I just always use my sound no matter what. I don't really care to approach the original tone - I won't use gain for a clean part of anything like that though...But I spent time getting good tone with a setup that really works for me - that's what I'm gonna use. That's just my way and I've gotten nothing but compliments of my tone.

Absolutely right.

[Terry Hayes]

As long as we are speaking in generalized terms... The main difference between a pro player on the stage and someone from an internet forum in their bedroom is that one is a leader and one is a follower. Creator vs. Reproducer. It is not about what you use, it is about what you do. If you have a decent amp, a couple of overdrives and a fuzz, and a tone knob on your guitar, and most importantly, know how to use your gear you will have the history of rock n roll at your fingertips. If you don't, you will have a dozen tubescreamer clones on your bedroom floor.

That is definitely true of many artists.

However, you also have the example of the pro player/hired hand who is touring as a bandmember for an artist. In many cases, they are not in the "creator" role since the artist who hired them expects them to reproduce the sounds on the album.

And, there are also instances when an artist "creates" so many different sounds from one album to the next that they need many options at their feet when the time comes to play live. I am thinking of the Edge in particular. He likes to be able to faithfully cover all the sounds of their past albums live.

Having said that, there are lots of artists who don't follow this approach and simply try to get "close enough".

Terry

[pacomc79]

Space and complexity of use are the main issues. They change out stuff all the time. It's nice to not have to look down and find which dirt box you're trying to step in between 13 pedals.

More often than not if the amp is good, the tone will be too.

[semi-hollowbody]

pros can crank their amps in studios/on stage to get their tone...no one is gonna walk up to evh and ask him to turn down a bit...and im sure the pro's home studios have some sort of sound isolation...

now on the other hand my wannabee non-pro basement warrior self has a different situation...even if my bride leaves for the day, I cant crank my amps loud enough to get a good natural breakup without the neighbors getting angry...so I have 8764728 flavors of dirt on my boards :)

[Lt_Core]

...so I have 8764728 flavors of dirt on my boards :)

LOL! I actually did laugh out loud. Funny stuff!

[re-animator]

I've always been surprised by the number of dirt pedals on the boards of the big acts. If I was playing stadiums, I'd be cranking the snot out of my Plexi's or Vox's. But lots of guitarists who play big venues use a few dirt pedals. I don't get it.

Good pedals add to your cranked amp sound, not walk all over it.

[iggs]

I've always been surprised by the number of dirt pedals on the boards of the big acts. If I was playing stadiums, I'd be cranking the snot out of my Plexi's or Vox's. But lots of guitarists who play big venues use a few dirt pedals. I don't get it.

Because that's what they like and are too busy living a dream to worry about what people on the internet forums think is the right thing to do ... :dunno

[Ronsonic]

More or fewer pedals, can't say. Certainly much less distortion overall than the amateurs.

The real guys never run as much crankage as people seem to think.

[Dashface]

I'm in a pro cover band - a Floyd tribute act. When I first started, I had 10 different dirt pedals I was using to cover everything on the albums... Slowly but surely I've whittled it down to five. But those five are all pretty different (muff vs tubedriver vs fuzz, for example).

I guess it just depends what you need. When I gig in the originals act, I literally use a FullDrive 2, a Tonebone Hot British, and my volume knob.

[hollowbodyhead]

It's ALL about being able to open up your amp/amps......for real.

[bkd_guitarist]

Just get a freaking Fulldrive II and be done with it. Seems like 75% of the pro boards you see have that pedal on them. For the life of me, I don't get it. I've bought and sold that damn pedal three times. I can't get a tone out of it that doesn't sound like an AM radio.

[Bar-B-Kill]

I'm not a gigging player, just a bedroom hack, but I would imagine the gigging player has many factors effecting their sound from night to night. Like someone else mentioned earlier, the pros are not trying to replicate a tone or trying to " nail " someone's sound. Gigging players can also crank their amps to get their tone, so not much need for multiple dirt pedals. I just received my 4th dirt pedal in the mail yesterday, ( 3 dirt, 1 clean boost ) and I already think I have to many. Well, I also use 2 dirt tones from a modeler... I need help!! You won't see a pro using my setup.

[bluetrane]

KBN The main difference between a pro player on the stage and someone from an internet forum in their bedroom is that one is a leader and one is a follower. Creator vs. Reproducer.

Wow--a bit condescending and presumptuous. There are a lot of hacks with bad tone playing in bars across America.

[zachman]

Would you say that, in general, pro players have fewer dirt pedals on their boards than the typical bedroom player/hobbyist/weekend warrior/TGPer? Although there are plenty of exceptions, I would say clearly "yes". So many pros seem to be perfectly content with a drive or two + a fuzz, whereas hobby players (like myself) think they need 8764729 flavors of dirt - I know I do. I wonder why.

Depends on the scenario/factors. ex. Live, Studio, Pro club (Top40 player, Blues, R&B, Jazz, Funk, Classic Rock etc... ), Pro Session player, Pro touring hired gun, Pro Artist, Pro Conventions etc..., Local gigs vs touring gigs requiring gear cartage expenses, the size of the venue and the stage.

I figure there are a few core tones (Marshall- JTM45/Plexi/JCM800, Fender, Vox, Boogie and the JC120) and everything else is an offshoot.

Then there is Amp drive (Power tube clipping, Preamp drive, OD, Distortion, and Fuzz)-- as far as dirt goes.

Some guys have multi-channel amps, others multiple amps (and some or all of these are multi-channel amps), and in those cases a couple of dirt pedals can be the means for LOTS of varying dirt tones.

There is no right or wrong about any of it.

[zachman]

As long as we are speaking in generalized terms... The main difference between a pro player on the stage and someone from an internet forum in their bedroom is that one is a leader and one is a follower. Creator vs. Reproducer.

No, the only difference is pros get paid to play. Being a pro doesn't make one good, knowledgeable about gear, or even talented.

[citizen-erased]

point was made earlier about the pros generally having a signature tone. im of the same belief that all you need to do is find one od tone, something to boost things along and maybe a second crazier flavour.

too many dirt tones and you dont really have that sound to be recognised by.

e.g - May has that sweet voxy lead tone, srv his big marshall/ts9/ff tones, gilmour the tube driver/muff tones, and so forth.

[zachman]

point was made earlier about the pros generally having a signature tone. im of the same belief that all you need to do is find one od tone, something to boost things along and maybe a second crazier flavour.

too many dirt tones and you dont really have that sound to be recognised by.

e.g - May has that sweet voxy lead tone, srv his big marshall/ts9/ff tones, gilmour the tube driver/muff tones, and so forth.

Big difference between artist icons Like Gilmour, EVH, Hendrix, SRV, BB King, Brian May, Billy Gibbons, Angus Young, Gary Moore, Mark Knopfler, Sonny Landreth, (signature sounds) and pros, because not all pros are artists per se-- some are just players in a supportive role, to an artist, or regular club gigging guys making a living, and some session guys needing to get whatever sound the client or producer has in mind. Just saying...

[Alex Law]

When I was in New Orleans a few weeks ago, I was surprised to see how many of the guitarists playing at the clubs on Bourbon Street had substantial pedalboards.

[BillyK]

I own a bunch.
I use a couple.

[rob2001]

There is no correct answer.

[Hemispheres]

LOL! I actually did laugh out loud. Funny stuff!


Yeah, but I have 8675309 flavors of dirt on my board.:bumpbump

[Hemispheres]

No, the only difference is pros get paid to play. Being a pro doesn't make one good, knowledgeable about gear, or even talented.


That's actually a pretty good point.

[Wooley]

I don't know, man.

The more I play live, the less pedals I use, but I see pros all the time with MASSIVE boards. The guy playing guitar with John Mayer (keep in mind Mayer plays rhythm and lead, and he has TWO other guitarists in his larger band) had so many pedals I just couldn't understand it.
Does a third guitarist need that many pieces?
I can see it if you're the only guitarist and you have to fill a lot of space and such, but, damn.

[todd richman]

It seems the norm for most roots rock type players, ie. Rich Robinson, Marc Ford, guys in Son Volt, David Grissom, etc is 2-3 dirt pedals. Usually a low gain drive, medium gain drive or drive+boost (like the Fulldrive) and a dedicated clean boost.

[Dashface]

My main gig is in a tribute act, and that leads to me having a ton of dirt boxes - but I have to have a bunch, since I need to accurately reproduce a bunch of tones from the entire career of the band.

When I'm playing in my originals band, it's a fuzz and a boost for me and that's that :)

[dougf.]

It definitely depends on the pro, and I don't think it's as common anymore in popular music for there to be lead guitarists with a signature tone (i.e. Page, Hendrix, Clapton, Garcia, Santana, Gilmour, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc......) If you look at a band like Wilco, who I feel have established something somewhat fresh in rock and roll, it's more about being able to have the tools to create a wider variety of tones/textures/sounds. Nels Cline is somewhat a modern day guitarist with a signature tone, but he has like 10 different dirt pedals on his board, and Tweedy only has a bunch of dirt and one delay. I saw them this past Monday and I can say without a doubt that their live show contains a wider varity of sonic textures and styles then any rock show I've ever been to, and this being the 10th time I've seen them, they just keep getting better. Obviously this is not the case for all band, nor should it be, but they are a great example of a band making quality use of all the wonderful gear available these days.

[Oddos]

It depends on who you are as a player, not if you're a pro or not.

I personally have only 2 dirt pedals on my board, pretty much set the same all the time, used individually or in combination. The rest is done with my guitars volume knob. I just prefer to do it that way. I' ve been through a bunch to find those two, but it's all I really need. That's my way.

If I want different colors I change guitars or bring a different amp, but really the difference isn't that big. I have my tone, it comes mostly from my hands, and my gear is set up to compliment my touch as much a possible. No complaints so far.

[Ronsonic]

In addition to my comment from ages ago when this thread was born that the big guys rarely run as much drive as the amateurs. There's another factor.

Working pro's whether "artists" or sideman workaday dudes work the controls on the guitar a lot more than most of the amateurs I do work for. A lot of the music den rock stars tend to have the tone all the way up and the volume on either 7 or 10, if they use it at all and use different pedals, amp channels and combinations to get their tone.

You can get a hell of a lot more out of a rig if you use the knobs. Through out any preconceptions about how the amp knobs need to be set. And set the amp and pedals with the idea in mind that you will vary the tone and volume settings on the guitar a lot. Go youtube some old Clapton footage, he's on the controls constantly.

[zachman]

In addition to my comment from ages ago when this thread was born that the big guys rarely run as much drive as the amateurs. There's another factor.

Working pro's whether "artists" or sideman workaday dudes work the controls on the guitar a lot more than most of the amateurs I do work for. A lot of the music den rock stars tend to have the tone all the way up and the volume on either 7 or 10, if they use it at all and use different pedals, amp channels and combinations to get their tone.

You can get a hell of a lot more out of a rig if you use the knobs. Through out any preconceptions about how the amp knobs need to be set. And set the amp and pedals with the idea in mind that you will vary the tone and volume settings on the guitar a lot. Go youtube some old Clapton footage, he's on the controls constantly.

Absolutely correct