JBL D130F and D140F: Good speakers?

[kingsxman]

Just opened up the dual 15" cab I got with my 64 Showman amp. Speakers in it are a single JBLD130F (8 ohm) and a JBL D140F (16ohm).
Surprised at the mixed resistance.

I havent even plugged the thing in yet to hear how it sounds... I'm sure it sounds good. Just wondering where these fall in the order of vintage tone?

I'll have some pics soon of the cabs guts. I want to know if this is the original cab or not. (Outside has some goofy covering on it..)

[sfarnell]

I don't know about the D140 but the D130 is an outstanding speaker. It's difficult to get an original that is still good and the quality of a lot of the reconed ones out there is crappy, but a good one can't be beat. A lot of jazz guys love the D130 because it has such a beautiful clean sound.

One of the creators of the D130 when he worked at JBL was Harvey Gerst who I've been researching because I bought a 4X10 cab made by a company he once owned. The guy is like Woody Allen's Zelig. He pops up everywhere in world of electronics and sound reproduction. He also created the famous JBL D120F for Fender. Quite a character who is now 72 years old, I believe, and is still active as a sound engineer somewhere in Texas.

[dunara]

They're both excellent, pro-quality speakers, but different to each other. The 130 is a full range speaker, much loved of jazzers and pedal steel guys. The 140 is a bass guitar speaker. As far as I know, they're both rated - conservatively - at 150 watts.

[In Tune]

I don't know about the D140 but the D130 is an outstanding speaker. It's difficult to get an original that is still good and the quality of a lot of the reconed ones out there is crappy, but a good one can't be beat. A lot of jazz guys love the D130 because it has such a beautiful clean sound.

One of the creators of the D130 when he worked at JBL was Harvey Gerst who I've been researching because I bought a 4X10 cab made by a company he once owned. The guy is like Woody Allen's Zelig. He pops up everywhere in world of electronics and sound reproduction. He also created the famous JBL D120F for Fender. Quite a character who is now 72 years old, I believe, and is still active as a sound engineer somewhere in Texas.
When and why were these stopped being produced???:dunno:dunno:dunno

[jcs]

you need a pair of 8 ohm speakers wired in parallel..

i would check the resistance of each speaker individually, an 8 ohm speaker will show around 6.5k resistance for example.

those speakers could easily be recones and may not match what is written for impedance.

definitely show pics of the speakers too.

[sfarnell]

When and why were these stopped being produced???:dunno:dunno:dunno

Not sure, although from reading about Gerst the corporate choices made at JBL ended a lot of high end production. The focus changed to home products, including PC speakers.

[Jay Mitchell]

i would check the resistance of each speaker individually, an 8 ohm speaker will show around 6.5k resistance for example.Oops, that's off by a factor of 1000. The reading you want isn't 6.5k, it's 6.5 ohms. And the DC resistance of "eight ohm" speakers (which is what you'll be measuring with a meter) can lie anywhere from ~4 ohms to just over 8.

[Jay Mitchell]

Not sure, although from reading about Gerst the corporate choices made at JBL ended a lot of high end production. The focus changed to home products, including PC speakers.No. As a competitor of JBL, I'm certainly no apologist for them, but JBL Professional - the division that was the original "JBL" before being acquired by Harman International many years ago - is still alive and well. They are here: http://jblpro.com/ .

[In Tune]

No. As a competitor of JBL, I'm certainly no apologist for them, but JBL Professional - the division that was the original "JBL" before being acquired by Harman International many years ago - is still alive and well. They are here: http://jblpro.com/ .
Ah Ha...thank you kind Sir for Dat info,,,Now its time for Da JBL Pro Company to reissue Deess Wans!!!! Bring em Back JBL! I buy. :drink:drink:drink

[kingsxman]

Here's a few pics of the speakers in the cab. If someone can also tell me if this is consistant with a 64 cab that'd be great.
http://members.goldengate.net/jgermann/Showman/2-15_cab1.JPG

http://members.goldengate.net/jgermann/Showman/2-15_cab2.JPG

http://members.goldengate.net/jgermann/Showman/2-15_cab3.JPG

[jcs]

jay thanks for that correction! i was thinking of pickups or something.

[kingsxman]

Does anyone know why they would mix a D130F and a D140F?

[dunara]

Does anyone know why they would mix a D130F and a D140F?
Using the cabinet for keyboards?

[kingsxman]

Using the cabinet for keyboards?

I dont think so. The guy I bought the head and cab from has had it since 71. I guess the main thing I'm wondering is if they came stock this way for a reason. Like I said...I havent even plugged it in yet. It may sound like heaven for all I know. (I'm replacing caps on the head).

[TYY]

Just opened up the dual 15" cab I got with my 64 Showman amp. Speakers in it are a single JBLD130F (8 ohm) and a JBL D140F (16ohm).
Surprised at the mixed resistance.

Chances are they are both 8ohm speakers. JBL labeled some speakers as 16 ohms and some as 8-16 ohms, but apparently they all measure at 8 ohms.

I havent even plugged the thing in yet to hear how it sounds... I'm sure it sounds good. Just wondering where these fall in the order of vintage tone?

Wow, so you decided to post on a message board before even trying the thing out? You and I are very different people

(just poking fun)

As far as I know, they're both rated - conservatively - at 150 watts.

Not even close. The 120F and 130F were originally rated at 25 or 30 watts, which slowly increased over the years to 60watts (even though no changes were made to the design). However, they are known to blow in twin reverbs rated @ 85 watts. In sealed cabs they can take significantly more power safely.

The D140 has a very heavy surround and can take much more wattage.

Here's a few pics of the speakers in the cab. If someone can also tell me if this is consistant with a 64 cab that'd be great.
http://members.goldengate.net/jgermann/Showman/2-15_cab1.JPG

http://members.goldengate.net/jgermann/Showman/2-15_cab2.JPG

http://members.goldengate.net/jgermann/Showman/2-15_cab3.JPG

From what little I can see, it looks like the cones are original.
Does anyone know why they would mix a D130F and a D140F?

Perhaps one of the 130s blew and it was replaced with a 140 with the idea of it being more robust.

[kingsxman]

Wow, so you decided to post on a message board before even trying the thing out? You and I are very different people

(just poking fun)

.

Thanks for the info!

Ha, I laugh but your right. Not the way I would usually do things either. This is an odd duck. This thing is covered in a material that is like the old Kustom cabs. No handles. Bitch to move. I got it a few days ago and wanted to see what was in it before firing it up. So I left it in the garage rather than bringing it in house and lugging it downstairs. Now I have the head that came with it pulled apart with caps on order...so I wont hear it until the head is ready. My plan is to retolex it with blonde like the head. Thats why I'm so curious if this is all original. If Fender would mix and match the speakers from the factory like that. I'll have to get the codes from these speakers and see if we can date them.

[kingsxman]

Bump: the speakers sound phenominal. The D130 is definitely brighter but is still very warm sounding. The D140F is really mellow sounding. Not a bit of harshness at all. Whats amazing with that speaker is when I add my Zendrive (through my showman) and that speaker it just has that Robben Ford quality to it (thickness) that I havent heard from another speaker. Amazing. I'm assuming that since the 140 is a bass speaker it really shoudlnt be brighter.

anyway, wanted to give an update. Very very cool sounding cab/speakers.

[GrecoVee]

Just opened up the dual 15" cab I got with my 64 Showman amp. Speakers in it are a single JBLD130F (8 ohm) and a JBL D140F (16ohm).
Surprised at the mixed resistance.

I havent even plugged the thing in yet to hear how it sounds... I'm sure it sounds good. Just wondering where these fall in the order of vintage tone?

I'll have some pics soon of the cabs guts. I want to know if this is the original cab or not. (Outside has some goofy covering on it..)

Are you sure the D140F is 16ohms and not 8ohms?
and the D130F is the 8ohm speaker?
Just wondering if you got them mixed up.
I've never seen a D140F in 16ohms(only 8) but I've seen plenty of D130F's in 16ohms and 8ohms.
Having said that,...If you're interested, I have a JBL D130F in 8ohm for sale! Just send me a p.m. if interested! Thanks!

[kingsxman]

Are you sure the D140F is 16ohms and not 8ohms?
and the D130F is the 8ohm speaker?
Just wondering if you got them mixed up.
I've never seen a D140F in 16ohms(only 8) but I've seen plenty of D130F's in 16ohms and 8ohms.
Having said that,...If you're interested, I have a JBL D130F in 8ohm for sale! Just send me a p.m. if interested! Thanks!

Your right, I had them backwards. The 130F is marked 16 ohms but its actually 8.

[Wheeler004]

D130F's are some of the most highly regarded 15" speakers out there. They are known to have a bit much high end "sparkle," but overall, a very good sounding speaker (IMO). I don't know much about the 140.

[kingsxman]

Together they have a very good sound. I wouldnt say either is overly bright though....

[mdog114]

Those Showman cabs are the cat's meow! Try cranking-up that head and play a clean Strat through it, then you'll see the light!

I have both the D130 & D140 speakers in single 1x15" cabs that I use as extension for some my amps. The D130 is my favorite 15" speaker.

[kingsxman]

Those Showman cabs are the cat's meow! Try cranking-up that head and play a clean Strat through it, then you'll see the light!

I have both the D130 & D140 speakers in single 1x15" cabs that I use as extension for some my amps. The D130 is my favorite 15" speaker.

I'm thinking though that I'm going to have to sell it. It sounds great but I probably wont use it. Unfortunatly, someone along the way recovered it with some "tuck and roll" covering and replaced the grill cloth with some cloth crap. I'm trying to figure out what its worth. I'll probably start another thread on that.
http://members.goldengate.net/jgermann/Showman%20cab/

[GrecoVee]

Your right, I had them backwards. The 130F is marked 16 ohms but its actually 8.
Not sure if I quite understand you.....
Are you saying that the D130F is marked 16ohms but it is really an 8ohm speaker?
Did you put a meter on it to test it to find that out?

[kingsxman]

Not sure if I quite understand you.....
Are you saying that the D130F is marked 16ohms but it is really an 8ohm speaker?
Did you put a meter on it to test it to find that out?

Yep. Marked 16 but ohms out to 8. Somewhere above I believe it states that this isnt uncommon.

[billyguitar]

While I've never owned a double Showman cab I have owned Dual Showmans, Bassmans and Bandmasters. That cab does not look right inside to me. It should have T nuts in the top for the head hold downs and the sides should have T nuts for the legs. The baffle board wouldn't be ordinary plywood either.
Open up your Showman cab and you'll see what I mean.

[kingsxman]

While I've never owned a double Showman cab I have owned Dual Showmans, Bassmans and Bandmasters. That cab does not look right inside to me. It should have T nuts in the top for the head hold downs and the sides should have T nuts for the legs. The baffle board wouldn't be ordinary plywood either.
Open up your Showman cab and you'll see what I mean.

This is what I thought was the showman cab....

So do you think this is a homemade cab or something or just a different kind of Fender cab?

[Singin' Dave]

That to me looks like an original showman cab that someone did try to re cover tuck and roll style, but did a pretty poor job of it.

D130F's are indeed sweet speakers! I have a mid 60's Showman 15 cab, all original complete with the "tone ring" that I bought with the D130F for $100 less than a year ago because the speaker cone was shredded. Had it reconed by Weber to 4ohm due to my intention to use the cab with my bassmen and Bandmaster Reverb heads and it sounds awesome! Huge clean goodness. Also sounds great wiht my little 15w Winfield Cyclone head.

[Jack Daniels]

The cab itself looks right. It looks like a new baffle board and added slatts on the back cover.

[doctorx]

They're both excellent, pro-quality speakers, but different to each other. The 130 is a full range speaker, much loved of jazzers and pedal steel guys. The 140 is a bass guitar speaker. As far as I know, they're both rated - conservatively - at 150 watts.

The D130 is not a 150 watt speaker, at best it's rated at 60 watts.

Also be aware that JBL speakers are wire in reverse to other brands, the red terminal is negative and black is positive. If you run that cab with another you'll probably have phasing problems.

[Mark Robinson]

When the recover happened, the stiffeners were added to the back. At that point, two "good" speakers, from different sources were probably paired in the cabinet. I suspect this thing was used for keys too, and for that matter, I played on the same bill with a group at a street fair who's keys player had a Hammond, which he played with a wah pedal and some sort of overdrive, through a cabinet that looked just like that, upon which he was seated. He was an older gent, probably in his seventies and he ripped through it. I can't rememeber the band name, probably 8 years ago or more.

[drbob1]

I wonder if it's like the E130 vs E140? The E130 is more sensitive, has an edgewound voice coil and lower maximum power, the 140 is aluminum? voice coil and lower sensitivity with higher power handling. Anyway, great speakers. One of my favorite amps for jams is the Vibrasonic: 40w into a D130...

[mdog114]

While I've never owned a double Showman cab I have owned Dual Showmans, Bassmans and Bandmasters. That cab does not look right inside to me. It should have T nuts in the top for the head hold downs and the sides should have T nuts for the legs. The baffle board wouldn't be ordinary plywood either.
Open up your Showman cab and you'll see what I mean.

This sounds pretty accurate to me.

[kingsxman]

When the recover happened, the stiffeners were added to the back. At that point, two "good" speakers, from different sources were probably paired in the cabinet. I suspect this thing was used for keys too, and for that matter, I played on the same bill with a group at a street fair who's keys player had a Hammond, which he played with a wah pedal and some sort of overdrive, through a cabinet that looked just like that, upon which he was seated. He was an older gent, probably in his seventies and he ripped through it. I can't rememeber the band name, probably 8 years ago or more.

You make it sound like you know the history of the cab.... ;)

My guess is that the speakers are original with the cab. I'll take a better look at it tonight and see if those stiffners appear to be added after the fact. So is there no way that the stiffners are factory?

[billyguitar]

The cab looks a little large to be a single Showman with a baffle made to fit the two fifteens. That would be hard to say without measuring it but the back looks right, except for the stiff backs. It doesn't matter too much now anyway, it's been altered so much. You might look and see if the original tolex is underneath to fake roll 'n pleat. I have a 1957 Bassman that came out of an antique store ($125!) that came with gold vinyl on it. The vinyl was just stapled on over the old rough tweed. The tolex may still be there, if it is a Fender cab.

[Singin' Dave]

My all original Showman 15 cab has those same "stiffener" wood slats on the inside back cover. Pretty sure those were stock in some years of those cabs.

[kingsxman]

The cab looks a little large to be a single Showman with a baffle made to fit the two fifteens. That would be hard to say without measuring it but the back looks right, except for the stiff backs. It doesn't matter too much now anyway, it's been altered so much. You might look and see if the original tolex is underneath to fake roll 'n pleat. I have a 1957 Bassman that came out of an antique store ($125!) that came with gold vinyl on it. The vinyl was just stapled on over the old rough tweed. The tolex may still be there, if it is a Fender cab.

Old tolex isnt there. Just wood. Otherwise I would have removed that tuck and roll along time ago.

[kingsxman]

FYI, Dont know if it was here or somewhere else but someone mentioned that the red and black on the old JBL posts are opposite...and black is actually positive. I reversed them and whoaa. Much brighter and just an incrediblely lush sound. D13F can fart out a little on the low end (normal?) but it may have been something rattling on the cab also.

Anyway, after checking the cab I do see 2 holes drilled on the outside of the top of the cab where there were posts for mounting the head. I also see 2 "nut" type things installed inbetween these that are probably for the screws to screw into for the handle.

So were the showman cabs the only cabs that had the posts on them on the outside of the top of the cab?

Also, back panel is MDF. Everything else is plywood. No holes for tiltback legs drilled anywhere.
Dimensions are 24" high x 36" wide x 12" deep.

[RossKlemz]

Man did this thread really just help me. Just set up a single 15 cab with a d140f-6 (BTW whats the 6 designation?) its sweet but now I know I must measure it and switch the polarity...Its gonna get BETTER!? Wow Im excited to record this thing this weekend!

[Roe]

Yep. Marked 16 but ohms out to 8. Somewhere above I believe it states that this isnt uncommon.

yes, even those who worked for jbl earlier have said that the 16ohms speaker actually measure 8ohms.

[corn husk bag]

Man did this thread really just help me. Just set up a single 15 cab with a d140f-6 (BTW whats the 6 designation?) its sweet but now I know I must measure it and switch the polarity...Its gonna get BETTER!? Wow Im excited to record this thing this weekend!

Did it work out to the better?

Kind Regards,
Steve

[doctorx]

Man did this thread really just help me. Just set up a single 15 cab with a d140f-6 (BTW whats the 6 designation?) its sweet but now I know I must measure it and switch the polarity...Its gonna get BETTER!? Wow Im excited to record this thing this weekend!

Switching the polarity on a single speaker will achieve nothing, unless you are running it with another speaker cabinet.