Educate me about Jazz

[fish78]

I like a lot of the really early stuff, but once we get to the Bebop era, I get lost. There is something about the disonance that just sounds cacaphonous to me. How can I learn to appreciate jazz?

[forgivenman]

I'm wondering this too.

[HammyD]

Start with Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue." Very accessible, but you can listen to it a thousand times.

Great videos...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjwVwASlVn4

( I swear I worked with the trombone player smoking and shooting the breeze with Miles when I was in college.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijDTS8cWI0o&feature=related

[TaronKeim]

Just keep listening until it clicks (if it ever does?)... just takes one artist to open your ears - took me two years to appriciate straight ahead hard bop and jazz with avant-leanings...

...and then I saw/heard Ari Hoenig on his Kinetic Hues DVD and that was it for me, a whole world opened up within 3 songs and I found myself listening to things I never thought I'd be able to find a musical affinty with.

_TJK*

P/S A good site to check up on - they have their own online radio station - is www.allaboutjazz.com (http://www.allaboutjazz.com). It is a treasure trove of music and artists waiting to be discovered, so much great music being made that just isn't reaching beyond live audiences... I'm sure you'll find something!

[Scott Miller]

Listen to some 1970s Sun Ra. Bebop will seem totally accessible by comparison.

Actually, the interesting thing about bebop is that a lot of it is the same chord progressions, with a different approach. "How High The Moon" becomes "Ornithology," "Cherokee" becomes... I forget. If you listen to some of it and think of the original tunes, you start to see where they came from and where they went. Bebop dissonance begins to make perfect sense, when you get used to it.

Try some Thelonious Monk. Deceptively simple and accessible, and some great beauty, too.

[harmonicator]

Wes Montgomery on Riverside

[fish78]

Listen to some 1970s Sun Ra. Bebop will seem totally accessible by comparison.

Actually, the interesting thing about bebop is that a lot of it is the same chord progressions, with a different approach. "How High The Moon" becomes "Ornithology," "Cherokee" becomes... I forget. If you listen to some of it and think of the original tunes, you start to see where they came from and where they went. Bebop dissonance begins to make perfect sense, when you get used to it.

Try some Thelonious Monk. Deceptively simple and accessible, and some great beauty, too. Well, I kind of like Sun Ra...the early Fletcher Henderson stuff, pretty much up until his death...so, maybe there is hope for me....I guess the answer is to just listen to a lot of material and maybe it will hit me...

[jzucker]

I like a lot of the really early stuff, but once we get to the Bebop era, I get lost. There is something about the disonance that just sounds cacaphonous to me. How can I learn to appreciate jazz?

transcribe some joe pass or wes montgomery. It'll open up your ears to the sounds and allow you to hear the beauty of what sounds dissonant to you now.

[lonejackrd]

Listen to John McLauglin, Pat Metheny, Bill Frissell and work your way backwards.

[Carltone]

There is something about the disonance that just sounds cacaphonous to me. How can I learn to appreciate jazz?

You have to realize that all the parts do fit together and you have to listen to the song as being played together by the musicians...

In pop and rock the structures of songs are stripped to the bare minimums... in jazz, everyone is playing a different part of the rhythm... there is no strong back beat to contain everything... if you are used to music made with a strong downbeat, you will find it hard to hear. Try listening to the "up" beats~ it will change everything...

[Wooley]

Start with Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue." Very accessible, but you can listen to it a thousand times...

THIS is the answer.

I mean, it helps that I live in New Orleans where great jazz is all around, but I never really got "Jazz".
This album elevated Jazz to the status of Jimi Hendrix, Johnny Cash, Grateful Dead, Hank Williams, Pink Floyd, etc.

After listening to this a few dozen times, almost everything in Jazz became "unlocked" to me.

I mean, this is Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Cannonball Adderley, Herbie Hancock, Bill Evans, and Jimmy Cobb on one album!

And when you read and understand how this came together, it's just... inspirational.

[musicofanatic5]

I, too, like the "pre-bop" era as I was raised by parents who constantly had Goodman, Henderson, Basie, Ellington, etc on the hi-fi at home). But I also now dig the jazz era through the sixties/seventies or so (I have no idea what constitiutes "modern Jazz" these days).
If you dig blues, Kansas City-era Basie is a good start. Relentlessly swinging blues variations.
Ellington is a good primer for getting your ears in tune to the "outside" notes; to me, he would "sneak in" the dissonance, or at least present it most musically.
When I first heard Bird, I couldn't dig/understand it. Once I got hip to Bird, I struggled with Coltrane/Dolphy, but after a while...I love it. Give it time, let it soak in slow.

[pater familias]

THIS is the answer...it's just... inspirational.

Amen, Brother Wooley.

[Mandoboy]

Listen to Charlie Parker play the blues, say "Parker's Mood". Incredible gutbucket emotion with sophisticated harmony, all very melodic and singable (most of Bird's solos are very singable if you slow them down).

[Mandoboy]

I mean, this is Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Cannonball Adderley, Herbie Hancock, Bill Evans, and Jimmy Cobb on one album!



Herbie isn't on Kind of Blue, it's Wynton Kelly (incredibly funky; he's the soloist on "Freddie Freeloader").

[stevel]

I like a lot of the really early stuff, but once we get to the Bebop era, I get lost. There is something about the disonance that just sounds cacaphonous to me. How can I learn to appreciate jazz?

I think one of the mistakes I first made - as a rockster coming at jazz from that mindset - is that I thought I should like *all* jazz.

I came to realize, I don't like all rock. I tend not to like rock that's namby-pamby, corny, overly "affected", full of cliches, or vehicles for mental masturbation, etc.

And I had had always known there are distinct differences in the styles of 50s rock and roll, 60s invasion/psychedelia, 70s stadium rock, 80s new wave and hair metal, 90s grunge, etc. etc.

As time went on, I realized I generally like Big Band music, but there are some corny/hokey songs I just don't like. I like Dixieland, but like Reggae, you can't listen to too much of it before it all starts to sound alike. So the more I listened to, the more I was able to distinguish between various styles, and determine what I generally liked and disliked, and was able to delve somewhat deeper into those categories.

I too couldn't more highly recommend Kind of Blue.

But something I did was just listen to more - like rock, I've found things I liked, and didn't like. But the biggest things that helped me out was realizing that, like rock, I didn't have to like everything.

One time, I turned the satellite to the music stations and put it on the jazz channel one day when I was home and could listen for hours. I kept hearing things I liked and looked over, and each time, it would be George Benson, or Wes Montgomery.

Of course it helped that I started with the more guitar-oriented works because there was something "extra" to appreciate about the song.

HTH,
Steve

[HammyD]

Listen to some 1970s Sun Ra. Bebop will seem totally accessible by comparison.

Actually, the interesting thing about bebop is that a lot of it is the same chord progressions, with a different approach. "How High The Moon" becomes "Ornithology," "Cherokee" becomes... I forget. If you listen to some of it and think of the original tunes, you start to see where they came from and where they went. Bebop dissonance begins to make perfect sense, when you get used to it.



In high school and college I played with a bunch of old timers from Chicago and NYC. They had played with just about everyone at one time or another including Mingus. They used to called those chord progressions "Sears & Robuck Changes" as they were in a lot of tunes.

They never had charts for me and always said I would "feel the changes." Half the time they wouldn't even give me the key or they would follow the circle of fifths, change keys on a moments notice throughout the song.

17 years old, sneaking into clubs I should not have been in, playing an upright bass the piano player picked up at the Downtown Chicago Salvation Army for $40 in the 1950's, it was quite an experience.

[KRosser]

I believe, and always have, that any music that needs an 'appreciation' lesson to go along with it has failed.

That said, I believe some people are naturally attracted to the dissonant sounds of modern jazz - I know this because I was one of them. The reason I got into it as a teenager, many years ago, was that it sounded exotic and dangerous and beautiful to me, back when I didn't know a b5 substitute from a hole in the ground.

There's no doubting modern jazz is a minority audience, but anyone who tries to turn that into a 'snob-appeal' thing for you is probably best ignored.

The only thing required, an open mind and open ears, it sounds like you already have. Give it a chance every so often - rent a good Coltrane, Miles, Wes Mongomery or Sonny Rollins DVD - sometimes the visual really helps bridge the gap - maybe sometime you'll hear something that attracts you, maybe you won't. And this may change over time

There's no doubt that learning about something more deeply can enrich one's listening of something, as has been the case with me with modern jazz, minimalism, what have you - but if the initial 'sale' isn't made with one's natural intuitive receptors, I don't see the point in going much further. There's all kinds of music and all kinds of people. Not everything is for me - it might just be this isn't for you. I wouldn't put too much worry into it.

[Mandoboy]

Ken- I agree with a lot of what you say, but I'd add that:

• You can dismiss a style you hear when you are 20 that becomes a revelation ("what was I thinking blowing this off?") when you are 35.

• Some people listen to music with an agenda, prejudice, etc. that may eventually go away.

When I was 15, if it wasn't rock and roll, it sucked. Needless to say, things are a little different for me now...

[KRosser]

Ken- I agree with a lot of what you say, but I'd add that:

• You can dismiss a style you hear when you are 20 that becomes a revelation ("what was I thinking blowing this off?") when you are 35.

• Some people listen to music with an agenda, prejudice, etc. that may eventually go away.

When I was 15, if it wasn't rock and roll, it sucked. Needless to say, things are a little different for me now...

Well I did say, "and this may change over time"

[Mandoboy]

Right, but the 'initial sale' for some folks is lifelong dismissal; that's their right but I think it's an attitude that leads people to miss out on a lot of fun.

[blhm84]

Wynton Kelly only plays on Freddie Freeloader, Bill Evans plays on the rest of the tracks and is as responsbile for Miles for the genius of that album.

[Mandoboy]

That's what i meant by "he's the soloist on Freddie Freeloader". Miles loved Bill but wanted Wynton's amazing style on that tune...agreed the Bill was responsible for a lot of that music, including composing "Blue In Green".

[Pietro]

I am more than a little opinionated on Jazz, so here goes.

I am not a jazz guitar fan, so forgive me. I own exactly zero jazz guitar albums.

Everything they say about "Kind of Blue" on this thread is totally incorrect. It is way better even than everybody says! The high-water mark of jazz.

The great words you need to understand to get started in appreciating jazz are

Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, Charlie Mingus, John Coltrane, Bill (and Gil) Evans, Thelonius Monk, anybody named Marsalis.

Start with "Kind of Blue"...

[wcmiller]

When I first went to music college in the early 90's I was a full fledged 80's rocker with the quintessential long hair, mullet......maybe and Metallica t-shirts in tow. I could name one jazz musician and that was Duke Ellington. In order to survive this experience I knew that like it or not that I would have to submerge myself in the music. The fact is that I very quickly fell in love with jazz music. It was effortless and quickly became the focus of my musical interest. One album that came to "rock" my world was McCoy Tyner's "The Real McCoy". The rhythmic drive, intensity and quartal sounds of this album struck me as "thrash metal" of jazz. I listened to that record over and over. Mike Stern's "Upside Downside" was also a great bridge for from someone with a rocker background beginning the oddesy of wading into the ocean of jazz music, virgin jazz ears and all.

This is the long way of saying that it could be advantageous to search out and ask others for recommendations for jazz music that may contain elements of the kind of music that you are familiar with and already love. If someone was a Country music fan I wouldn't pick the McCoy or Stern albums mentioned above right off the bat. Foster a connection and progression of that which you already love and you will be on your way. Have fun, it's a great journey. :dude

[Wooley]

Herbie isn't on Kind of Blue, it's Wynton Kelly (incredibly funky; he's the soloist on "Freddie Freeloader").

You're right, it is Kelly, not Hancock, who takes over for Bill Evans on that one song.

[fish78]

Some great suggestions, thanks guys.

[lhallam]

For be-bop in particular, the Massey Hall concert with Diz and Bird is legendary.

If you listen to Charlie Parker enough you begin to hear the patterns that he is laying down. Some of them are long and most are fast so it's not easy to hear without careful and continued listening. After awhile it becomes mindboggling when you hear how he could follow the changes to so fluently.

He was a master at the blues, you can hear some lines that translate quite well to gtr.

I couldn't find a blues example but check out how Bird accents the up-beat and how he changes his lines with the chords the progression is in A-A-B-A form, you can he distinctly when he goes into the bridge (B section):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu14kEuqGJc&feature=related

[norumba]

Listen to John McLauglin, Pat Metheny, Bill Frissell and work your way backwards.

this is a great path, and pretty much the one i folllowed when i first heard McLaughlin as a junior high rocker. After a lot of years steeped in Miles, Trane, Bird , Monk and Ellington (among others) I came out the other end witha strong predilection for post -modern and free jazz: Dolphy, Coleman ( to an extent), Pharaoh Sanders , Bill Dixon, Evan Parker, Peter Broetzmann, others, and Albert Ayler and Cecil Taylor particularly - those two still stand out as the jazz artists whose work i feel most connected to.

Not everyone's cup of tea, and it will also put a new spin on what you think dissonance in jazz is :) but I find something very deep and committed in the best practitioners of that spectrum that resonates with me... as always, YMMV.

[jumpnblues]

I am more than a little opinionated on Jazz, so here goes.

I am not a jazz guitar fan, so forgive me. I own exactly zero jazz guitar albums.

Everything they say about "Kind of Blue" on this thread is totally incorrect. It is way better even than everybody says! The high-water mark of jazz.

The great words you need to understand to get started in appreciating jazz are

Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, Charlie Mingus, John Coltrane, Bill (and Gil) Evans, Thelonius Monk, anybody named Marsalis.

Start with "Kind of Blue"...



I'm a blues and jazz guitar player and I couldn't agree with you more. Except I do listen to and have jazz guitar albums...but listen more to the people you mentioned.


Tom

[Starquasi]

When I was 15, all the "cool" older kids in my music class talked about jazz. I realize now they don't know what the heck they were talking about. But I wanted to be cool. So I went and bought a compilation of this Cannonball Adderley guys greatest hits. Could listen to one song - Work Song, because it was kind of funky. But didn't understand or appreciate what the soloists were doing.

After a while I forced myself to listen to work song every night over and over as i went to sleep, so that maybe I would finally understand it. Make the dissonance less dissonant.

One night, about a week into this experiment, Cannonball hits the 9 on the 1 minor chord during his solo, and it hit me like a freight train. And that is when I became a jazz fan. I understood the theoretical aspect of jazz but until that moment it didn't resonate with me on an emotional level. That night, that note and that song did.

Point of story: I'm not exactly sure, other than like the above poster, I don't "like" all jazz, but for me to start liking some I had to work at it a little. I had to foster that connection. Hard work, but paid off in the long run.

Go buy an early (acoustic not electric band) Cannonball Adderley record with Work Song on it. He is the funky Charlie Parker.

Walk Tall!

[eronson]

charlie christian

[GovernorSilver]

An appreciation for jazz usually starts with the correct "entry point" - where YOU and the music finally connect. My entry point was jazz fusion, especially anything with guitar in it. The entry points for a number of punk rockers I met in college were Henry Threadgill, Anthony Braxton, and John Zorn. Then I moved on to the mostly guitar-less Weather Report (Carlos Santana guested on the final album, Ralph Towner contributed an amazing 12-string solo to I Sing The Body Electric). Try searching for the following on Youtube and see what grabs you:

Kind of Blue
Sonny Sharrock
Gene Harris
Chick Corea
Weather Report
Charlie Christian
Django Reinhart
Oregon (or Ralph Towner)
Bill Frisell
Henry Threadgill

[Bryan T]

Go hear some live jazz.

Go to the library and check out some CDs that seem interesting. You won't like them all (as stevel pointed out), but something might grab you.

[re-animator]

this'll do it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j_TDoOPnIA

[sonicD]

Jazz has stepping stones and mile posts just like any other form of music. Try some of these classics. Understanding them will help you understand all that follows:

Kind of Blue - Miles Davis. Yep, just like everybody else has been saying, this one is pretty much the masterwork. You can't NOT own this album.

Something Else! - Cannonball Adderly. Miles is all over this record, released a few months before Kind of Blue, it's often considered a "companion piece" to it. Autumn Leaves is just simply one of the most beautiful jazz pieces ever recorded.

Song For My Father - Horace Silver. Founding Member of the Jazz Messengers, Horace more or less invented Hard Bop. More aggressive and rhythmically bluesy than Miles, this is a great intro into what Hard Bop is all about.

Time Out - Dave Brubeck Quartet. Mr Popularity himself, Time Out is one of the few jazz records in history to sell over a million copies. This is lyrical, melodic jazz, very easy on the ears, but more complex than many realize. If Blue Rondo a La Turk doesn't grab you, Take Five will.

Smokin' at the Half Note - Wes Montgomery. Let' see... You're Miles Davis's backing group The Wynton Kelly Trio, and you a got a couple nights off. What do you do? Why, sit in with Wes Montgomery, of course! Wes has been accused of going "easy listening" at various points of his career, but this ain't it. This is as fine a small combo jazz guitar record as you'll ever hear. Basically the same group that recorded Full House in '65, an equally impressive record.

New York Stories - Danny Gatton, etc. Yeah, I know this isn't a "classic" per se, but it will be someday. If you can find Gatton's early 90's Blue Note release, you'll be treated to a record that's the best of what comtempory jazz is all about. Danny lets the inner Wes out, and the result is just fantastic - keep in mind that this isn't solely a Gatton affair. He's not even featured on some of the tracks, but no mind. Everybody shines on this disk. Try to find it.

Good Luck and happy jazz listening.

[chrisgraff]

Herbie isn't on Kind of Blue, it's Wynton Kelly (incredibly funky; he's the soloist on "Freddie Freeloader").

Yep. Learn the first two or three choruses of the FF piano solo. That'll hook ya.

[pickaguitar]

Check out Joe Temperley on the bass clarinet solo for 'A Single Petal Of A Rose'.
I'm now a fan after what I heard on Wynton Marsalis' Jazz at Lincoln Center Orchestra on KERA yesterday...very moving experience for me.

[theRocco]

When I wanted to "get started with jazz" I made a list of everything classic (like the lists above) and went out and bought them up.
Yes, about 50 CDs to start.
About a year later, I sold back about 90% of them, not interested.
But that 10% I kept--wonderful!
Many of the "must haves" were on that 90% going back list.
But I did find "my door" into jazz and I'm glad I did.
It may not be your way into jazz, everyone has their own locks to pick.
So don't be surprised (or worried) if "Kind of Blue" ain't for you.
What matters is what matters to you.

[stratovarius]

With all music dissonance is the name of the game. Dissonance is a relative term and the only way to avoid it is to play pure sine waves in only the simplest of ratios. That gets boring pretty quickly. The history of music seems to be a progression of "how far can we push it". Going off axis and back again is where the beauty lies. Convention teaches us what is acceptable and what is not and that conditioning is the limiting bandwidth in which we operate.

I agree with others here that taking yourself out of your comfort zone little by little is the way to go. It was that way for me learning to appreciate Indian classical music. Now when I drag unsuspecting friends to a sitar recital and they say something about "wrong notes", I only smile and nod my head.

[Brooks]

big +1 on
miles davis - kind of blue
dave brubeck - time out
wes montgomery - smokin' at the half note.

after 70's fusion stuff bridged the gap between rawk & jazz for me
(al dimeola, jeff beck, allan holdsworth on tony williams lifetime),
those 3 albums by miles/brubeck/wes were the 1st trad jazz that i really liked.
also big +1 on horace silver, & joe pass. i'll add jimmy smith and other
60's B3 organ jazz like groove holmes and lonnie smith.
i love monks tunes when someone else plays them, but i can't take the sound of his recordings.

my fave stuff is the 1990's to present day "neo jazz" of
MMW, will bernard, tj kirk, charlie hunter, and john scofield;
more funky than trad jazz, but more jazz phrasing/less rawk sounding
than the regular fusion guys listed above.

[MartinPiana]

Two points, one on enjoying musical dissonance and one on making the transition from swing to bebop.

NPR had a fascinating interview with a guy who studied different individuals' tolerance for dissonance. He said when we hear a series of musical notes, we instinctively - before we think about it - are preparing ourselves for the next note in the sequence, that we're instinctively guessing what it might be. And since notes resolve to more and less obvious notes, there's a range of probability within each context of what the next note will be. Then he said each person has a different degree of how much they want to be surprised by the next note - in other words, how much dissonance is pleasing to them.

Second, I'd be interested in sitting down and listening to some music with the OP. Do you like pre-bop Duke Ellington? Songs like "Come Sunday"? Cuz there's some pretty sophisticated shiz going on there. How about Charlie Christian with Benny Goodman? Or Coleman Hawkins with Monk? How about Oscar Peterson's solo piano (heavily influenced by swing-era's Art Tatum, but with some bebop updates)? If you listen to the Roy Eldridge (a big band era guy) duets with Oscar Peterson, do you find that any easier to listen to than Dizzy Gillespie's duets with Oscar?

Have you listened to "Kind of Blue," the best selling jazz record of all time? If so what do you think of it?

There's a world of incredible jazz that came along after the swing era - good luck in finding the joy and wonder in it!

[CharAznable]

Talking about Miles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-3x-dSHKew

The second solo in here, by Cannonball Adderley, is my favorite solo anywhere, of any genre on any instrument.

[Wooley]

Oh, I was gonna add (I'm in the Kind of Blue camp) that Bop (Gillespie/Parker/et al) is not as enjoyable to me as everything Pre-bop, and everything Post-bop up until Smooth Jazz.

Bop is a little tougher for me.

[stratovarius]

NPR had a fascinating interview with a guy who studied different individuals' tolerance for dissonance. He said when we hear a series of musical notes, we instinctively - before we think about it - are preparing ourselves for the next note in the sequence, that we're instinctively guessing what it might be. And since notes resolve to more and less obvious notes, there's a range of probability within each context of what the next note will be. Then he said each person has a different degree of how much they want to be surprised by the next note - in other words, how much dissonance is pleasing to them.

That's an interesting perspective. Of course everyone has a different history and what is novel to one person may not be to another, but it has me wondering to what extent this musical "tolerance" translates to others areas of the personality.

[fish78]

OK, the discussion is getting way over my head...I like Ragtime, Dixiland, and Swing jazz...when we get beyond that ...I get lost...remember, I am not a musician...just trying to pick up the guitar at age 56....so a lot of the info here just goes over my head...I will take the suggestions and give a throuogh listen to the consensus picks here...but as much as I hope I learn to enjoy it, I fear it might be to complicated for me to appreciate...

[DC1]

Start here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkvCDCOGzGc


Then get this:


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NR770PKCL._SL500_AA240_.jpg

Listen....


dc

[Wooley]

OK, the discussion is getting way over my head...I like Ragtime, Dixiland, and Swing jazz...when we get beyond that ...I get lost...remember, I am not a musician...just trying to pick up the guitar at age 56....so a lot of the info here just goes over my head...I will take the suggestions and give a throuogh listen to the consensus picks here...but as much as I hope I learn to enjoy it, I fear it might be to complicated for me to appreciate...

That ain't gonna work!

Listen to Kind of Blue not as a challenge, but as a relaxing pleasure. Don't attack it or defend against it, just listen to it. Pour yourself a glass of your favorite, sit back and relax and enjoy it!

That's the way to listen to KoB.

[jumpnblues]

You know, one of the paradoxes of jazz and even other forms of music is, the more challenging and interesting it gets for the musician, the more boring it gets for the casual listener.


Tom

[GovernorSilver]

but as much as I hope I learn to enjoy it, I fear it might be to complicated for me to appreciate...

The music in Kind Of Blue is not complicated.

[Berlin Chris]

The music in Kind Of Blue is not complicated.

Well, for most people who are not (yet) into jazz Kind of Blue is pretty advanced stuff.

I always felt that listening to jazz-singers instead of instrumentalists makes for a nice start into this genre. Billie Holiday, Ella, Sarah Vaughn, Sinatra or more contemporary artists like Diana Krall, Norah Jones ...stuff like that.

[GovernorSilver]

Well, for most people who are not (yet) into jazz Kind of Blue is pretty advanced stuff.


Could you explain what you mean by "advanced stuff"?

This isn't anything like the Miles Smiles era, or Albert Ayler, or Anthony Braxton....

[Gretsch1972]

I like a lot of the really early stuff, but once we get to the Bebop era, I get lost. There is something about the disonance that just sounds cacaphonous to me. How can I learn to appreciate jazz?

A lot of great advice here on the specifics of what to listen to. But I think a broader perspective is also necessary. If you can accept the premise, based on what you consider to be ample evidence, that the music has great value and is worth spending time on, then that's all you need to do.

A lot of our culture today is geared towards instant gratification. And jazz is no exception. The music that is fashionable in New York today is all about complex lines and prodigious technique. But most of the "hot" young players would fall on their faces flat if they had to play a slow blues or a Louis Armstrong tune. Great art always requires a person to bring something of themselves to it. The Rite of Spring made me confused the first time I heard it. Same for the first time I saw a Rothko. You just have to give it time.

I hear all the time the phrase "I know what I like" when what is actually true is "I like what I know." If you spend time with something that you don't get immediately, it will reveal itself to you at some point. Then, you will find that you have a bond with that music. It's as if you've deciphered something. And that can be very rewarding.

[Gretsch1972]

The music in Kind Of Blue is not complicated.

That's a loaded statement.

[GovernorSilver]

That's a loaded statement.

I meant it's not "complicated", using the OP's terminology, to listen to.

Remember, this is a thread from a listener's perspective.

The poor guy is looking for music that is not excessively dissonant. I believe that's he what he meant by "I don't want complicated".

[fish78]

A lot of great advice here on the specifics of what to listen to. But I think a broader perspective is also necessary. If you can accept the premise, based on what you consider to be ample evidence, that the music has great value and is worth spending time on, then that's all you need to do.

A lot of our culture today is geared towards instant gratification. And jazz is no exception. The music that is fashionable in New York today is all about complex lines and prodigious technique. But most of the "hot" young players would fall on their faces flat if they had to play a slow blues or a Louis Armstrong tune. Great art always requires a person to bring something of themselves to it. The Rite of Spring made me confused the first time I heard it. Same for the first time I saw a Rothko. You just have to give it time.

I hear all the time the phrase "I know what I like" when what is actually true is "I like what I know." If you spend time with something that you don't get immediately, it will reveal itself to you at some point. Then, you will find that you have a bond with that music. It's as if you've deciphered something. And that can be very rewarding.
This is the exactly the approach I plan to take...plenty of stuff to listen to...

[mike walker]

You know, one of the paradoxes of jazz and even other forms of music is, the more challenging and interesting it gets for the musician, the more boring it gets for the casual listener.


Tom

Any time this old argument comes up in a group of people, it's always split down the middle. Some love it, some hear complex, others don't.

Funny that.

[lfio710]

This might be worth a read (especially the non-guitar recommendations):
http://stevekhan.com/recom.htm

Check out Emusic.com. There are a ton of jazz classics for download, and their pricing is a really good deal.