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View Full Version : Hamer guitars. Whats the story?


Mike M
10-14-2004, 07:57 PM
I have never owned one of these guitars. I have owned mostly vintage gear and Lots of Les Pauls. I was wondering what is the best guitar they make and is the tone very nice. The used Hamers on Ebay seem to lose there value very quickly.

Thanks

matte
10-14-2004, 08:07 PM
The early Hamers are MURDER. I rocked a Sunburst and a Standard from the "70s to early to mid "80s.

Unburst
10-14-2004, 08:12 PM
Hamers are great, can't say what their best guitar is, depends what you're looking for.
They are well made and among the best sounding guitars I've ever played.

big mike
10-14-2004, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by Unburst
Hamers are great, can't say what their best guitar is, depends what you're looking for.
They are well made and among the best sounding guitars I've ever played.

WORD. They ALL kick ass. Just as good as anyone else's axes. My Fav is the Studio Custom P90. Goldtop. Wow. what an axe. I've been through several, and used to sell them in a store. Just amazing stuff. Particularly for the price.

They have a VERY flat radius neck though, and that's what forced mine out the door. They use a 14" Radius.

Scott Peterson
10-14-2004, 08:18 PM
The USA made Hamers were - and are - among the best at what they do. Materials, hardware, craftmanship is all frirst rate. They were amazing bargins used; and remain good ones (though it seems lately folks are catching on a bit and used prices are up a touch).

I have owned a whole slew of USA Hamers and they have all been excellent. As good as, or better, than any other USA factory.

bluegrif
10-14-2004, 09:40 PM
I've only owned one Hamer, a 90s special. The craftsmanship was great. I finally sold it (for exactly what I paid) mainly because it had a really slim neck and I prefer a little more beef. I would certainly consider another. I would love to own a Monaco or Newport but I doubt it'll happen because if the neck carve is anything like the Special, I'd have to have their custom shop make one with a thicker neck carve. I imagine that would add so much to the cost that I'm better off sticking with PRS, whose "wide-fat" neck carve is great.

Killcrop
10-14-2004, 10:24 PM
How's this for a crazy Hamer? Solid falme maple body!

Hamer (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33042&item=3755180262&rd=1)

mrhappy
10-14-2004, 11:20 PM
They make some great stuff. I have @ 18 of em at present.

dwoovre
10-14-2004, 11:29 PM
The necks on most modern Hamers are likely quite a bit thicker than your '90s Special. My Artist Mahogany and Newport both have necks in medium-thick range. They are considerably larger than an mid-90s Artist I sold primarily for that reason.

bluegrif
10-14-2004, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by dwoovre
The necks on most modern Hamers are likely quite a bit thicker than your '90s Special. My Artist Mahogany and Newport both have necks in medium-thick range. They are considerably larger than an mid-90s Artist I sold primarily for that reason.

I'm glad to hear that. I may own another one yet.

riffmeister
10-15-2004, 12:02 AM
I have a Korina Newport with Seth Lover HBs. GREAT playing/sounding guitar!

My 2nd Hamer is on the way:

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=9438614

Dave Paetow
10-15-2004, 06:04 AM
I've owned a ton of Hamers over the years, they are high quality guitars that can be had for very reasonable dollars these days. Currently have a Diablo I paid next to nothing for, and it's a great guitar.

The newer Hamers have chunkier necks, the neck on my brother's Korina Artist is a friggin' telephone post.

arniez
10-15-2004, 07:43 AM
I own several and each one is an outstanding guitar. Hamer customer service is also as good as it gets. Currently their entire lineup is available with a choice of vintage or modern neck profiles. The vintage is in the realm of the old Gibson's and the modern is a more medium profile. No more thin necks at all unless custom ordered. Here is a pic of one of mine!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/arniez/1e7c969b.jpg
ArnieZ

Joe
10-15-2004, 07:47 AM
Hamer? Never heard of them. :p

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/novax8fab/Guitarwall.jpg

Larry Wallwart
10-15-2004, 08:08 AM
All the Hamers I've played were sweet guitars.

Dave Paetow
10-15-2004, 08:23 AM
Originally posted by Joe
Hamer? Never heard of them. :p

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/novax8fab/Guitarwall.jpg

3 Virtuosos? DAMN! :)

jordanL
10-15-2004, 08:44 AM
I have 20th Anniversary-mahogany semi hollow, thats a beautiful guitar, and the price I paid was ridiculous.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/Jordanml/hamer1b.jpg


I've played and heard many others, and while not as flashy as PRS, ithink thier build quality is about equal. When I first saw a friends Newport, I asked if the color was custom, but The very coool (IMHO) Orange with metalflake was the standard color. Great guitars.

Mike Dresch
10-15-2004, 09:03 AM
I've had three really nice Hamers in my lifetime. All super nice guitars.

I still want my custom shop Californian Custom back! Anyone here buy a midnight blue Californian Custom with gold hardware and a reverse headstock on Ebay a few years ago? Want to sell it? :D

big mike
10-15-2004, 09:30 AM
Love them Steve Stevens models Joe!! Those things all rock.

Anyone know if they are doing smaller radius now? IE at least 12" but preferably 10"?

I'd be back in the fold then.

Still have a Daytona (strat) but had to put a Warmoth neck on it to be able to keep it.

A440
10-15-2004, 10:15 AM
I also have the 25th Anniv Artist Semi Hollow Mahogany. I'm impressed with the workmanship at such a modest price. I picked this up from a fellow GP'er and I'm loving it !

bluegrif
10-15-2004, 11:15 AM
Well, I'm glad I picked up on this thread because now that I've discovered the newer Hamers are available with thicker necks, I'll definitely consider one. I've determined I'd like to have another thin hollowbody. After I sold my Guild Starfire (you guessed it - neck too thin) I've been trying to decide what to replace it with. A Newport with Phat Cats (which I have in my PRS) might just be a great choice!

burningyen
10-15-2004, 11:17 AM
The story is they're a small group of guys (12 last I heard) in CT making some of the best guitars available today, certainly at their price point. Used Hamers are a total steal. Here's my Hamer trio:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/burningyen/Misc/specialhb.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/burningyen/Misc/specialhb2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/burningyen/Misc/headstock2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/burningyen/Misc/newport2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/burningyen/Misc/bcrjr2.jpg

Scott Peterson
10-15-2004, 12:03 PM
Well heck if we are showing them off, here you go:

1994 Hamer T-51 Tele. Suhr bridge pickup; Lollar Special neck. Incredible guitar!!

http://128.121.187.118/94-Hamer-T-51.jpg


1995 Hamer Custom Studio Archtop (the pics do NOT do this justice, it is a killer flame top and beyond that - FAR - beyond that this guitar s the T-O-T-A-L package):

http://128.121.187.118/74266619.jpg

Joe
10-15-2004, 12:34 PM
I'll take you up on your offer to show off and raise you:

A Neil Zaza Californian Custom:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/novax8fab/Spidermanclose-up.jpg

Or a Michael Fath scalloped doubleneck:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/novax8fab/Doubleneck.jpg

Or a Celestial Chap custom set neck:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/novax8fab/CelestialHamer.jpg

Or a Artist Custom w/ my son Brian's name and DOB inlayed:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/novax8fab/BrianArtistColllage.jpg

Or a Holloskull Californian Elite:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/novax8fab/Holloskullbodyonly.jpg

Or the new Improv:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/novax8fab/PA110023.jpg

Or a Vai inspired Centuara:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/novax8fab/Flamerfront.jpg

Or a Studio Custom scalloped:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/novax8fab/StudioCustomScallop.jpg



:D :D :D :D :D :D

Randy
10-15-2004, 12:44 PM
Here's a pic of the '95 Hamer Korina Standard I just bought from Gearhead;

http://www.hypernova.net/For_Sale/For_Sale.htm

Ken I
10-15-2004, 12:47 PM
they make a top notch guitar, great customer service and the used prices are a steal.

Mike Dresch
10-15-2004, 01:23 PM
Joe, I love the Holloskull! I drooled over those for a long time!

dzeitlin
10-15-2004, 01:25 PM
I've owned a hand ful of Hamer's, and all have been of excellent quality. Heck, it's where Terry McInturrf got his start. Here's the Hamer I currently have. It's a very unique guitar. Very fat strat sounds. It's wired cool too. One volume for bridge/neck, one volume for middle, and master tone. With the middle volume up, that pickup is on all the time, so you get bridge/middle, all 3, neck/middle. With the middle volume off, you get standard LP style bridge, bridge/neck, neck. Plus you can blend in the middle pickup for some steallar tones. VERY versatile instrument.

http://david-zeitlin.20m.com/images/hamerartist.jpg

BadgerDave
10-15-2004, 04:37 PM
Well, if we're posting photos . . .

I've been playing Hamers since 1978. They were then, and are now, among the best hand-built guitars being made in the USA. Note that I did not say "for the money".

Joe, I didn't know you had an Improv. How do you like it?


http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3695802/1044828708269_Purple_AC_a1.jpg
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3695802/1040004874789_BSC_wMinis_1.jpg
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3695802/1082941083980_Newport_angclose_1.jpg
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3695802/1088794457468_1a_4SB7.jpg
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3695802/1085837598557_a1_3HOLLOW_close.jpg
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3695802/1092046236287_Seafoam_Special_front_angle_close.jp g
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3695802/1098444351195_01aaa_04_Blue_SC_small.jpg
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3695802/1079696674445_emerald_twins_close2.jpg
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3695802/1062863534446_a_Cali_front_close_3.jpg

Joe
10-15-2004, 04:49 PM
I really like the Improv, snappier notes and woodier tone than my Artist Custom or Newport Pro. I was considering doing a Newport Pro w/ the maple top in that new blueburst and scalloping the fingerboard. :D

Mike Dresch
10-15-2004, 04:57 PM
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3695802/1062863534446_a_Cali_front_close_3.jpg

Now that's a cool guitar! (so are the others but I have a soft spot for Californians):dude

aleclee
10-15-2004, 05:11 PM
I've never owned one but the worst thing I can say is that the neck joint on the Monaco is a bit awkward for me. Other than that the US-made Hamers that I've played have all been high-quality well-made guitars.

felken
10-15-2004, 07:22 PM
I recently bought a new usa made Newport Pro from Musicmakers Austin via an internet transaction so I did not play it first. My mistake, but Hamer has a good reputation on line so I took a chance.

This guitar has dead spots around the 12 fret 3rd string and 10 fret second string. The rest of the guitar rings like other guitars I own.

I sent the guitar back to Hamer who honed the frets and sent it back saying it meets their quality.

It is the most expensive guitar I have ever bought and has the worst dead spots of any guitar I have ever owned.

It is very irritating to say the least. The dead spots ring 1/2 as long as the non dead spots so the "instrument" is very unbalanced.

The dead spots are the worst I have ever experienced on a guitar.

I am not impressed at all with Hamer service and am amazed they let this out the door and it meets their quality requirements. I would have not put this out their with my name on it.

I spoke at length with their cust service who said that the problem of dead spots like this can be solved by putting a c clamp on the headstock.

Does that sound like a quality instrument if it needs a clamp on the headstock to balance the dead spots on it???

What is sad to me, besides the loss I will be taking on this, is that the company has the chance to make it right but does not.

They have lost a customer for life.

tjensen
10-15-2004, 09:38 PM
Great guitars for the money.

big mike
10-15-2004, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by tjensen
Great guitars for the money.

Great guitars regardless of $$.

Played my buddies Studio Custom again today. I'm very familiar with this one, as I sold it to him new about 6 years ago. Man. what a sweet guitar. They have the best tone control all the way off bridge pup tone ever. Wonder if that's the cap or the pots or both, but I wish my PRS could do that. What an amazing instrument.

Dave Paetow
10-16-2004, 06:18 AM
Originally posted by big mike blues
They have the best tone control all the way off bridge pup tone ever. Wonder if that's the cap or the pots or both, but I wish my PRS could do that. What an amazing instrument.

Try a .01 uf capacitor, that what a lot of Hamers I owned had in them.

Joe
10-16-2004, 07:52 AM
Having owned about sixty USA Hamers over the years, presently have 32 I think, I think I can speak about quailty issues pretty well.

I have never had problem with a new Hamer, in fact I only had two problems in total.

Case # 1: I was in the studio recording and goofing off, throw my guitar around my neck and broke the Floyd Rose. Hamer sent me a new one under warranty overnight.

Case # 2: Purchased a used SS off ebay that had a neck twist. Owning 12 Steve Stevens w/ no neck issues, I think a previous owner was the problem more than the wood.

I have no complaints, if I did, you could be sure I would call Jol and speak to him directly. I am a very satisfied customer.

danhops
10-16-2004, 09:01 AM
I love mine. Not a thing I would want top change on it.

http://pic12.picturetrail.com:80/VOL440/1615592/3096077/41570575.jpg
http://pic12.picturetrail.com/VOL440/1615592/3096077/41511666.jpg

JPERRYROCKS
10-16-2004, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by felken
I

The dead spots are the worst I have ever experienced on a guitar.

.

What causes "dead spots" in a guitar. Bad fret work?

big mike
10-16-2004, 10:28 AM
Thanks for the tip on the Cap. Change it for the tone pot cap yes?

Anyway, when I worked at a dealer, we went through tons of them. I sold the crap out of them, and went through 5 or 6 myself. Never had any issues at all. UNTIL the move to Connecticut into the Ovation factory. Not all the guys from Arlington Heights went with Hamer. Still great and high quality, but had a few more with issues for return. Usually fretwork or finish. I had hoped they were just growing pains. But I also noticed the level of service to the dealer had slipped as well.

I had a JB go out in the bridge of a customer's studio.~pretty rare occurance~ Customer was mostly a praise player, that is played in church. That type of thing happend before the move, they were upset, and had usually red labled replacement parts. Since this was the first time I had to go through Ovation service for parts, I was told 3-4 weeks for replacement. They wouldn't pull a replacement from the prod. line. Thinking this strange, I had asked what I was supposed to tell the customer, since his only guitar was out of commission.

The service rep actually told me I must not be doing my job well enough, if he had only bought one guitar!

Now, this is a rare circumstance. No slagging. I LOVE Hamers. I wish I could still lay them (radius too flat). But I hope that the levvel of service has improved to their previous excellence,

Joe
10-16-2004, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by JPERRYROCKS
What causes "dead spots" in a guitar. Bad fret work?

A bad fret can be the cause, but when altering the weight of the guitar solves the issue, then it is about the resonant frequency of the guitar, not the frets.

When a note hits the resonant frequency of the guitar perfectly, the note gets cancelled out. The goal is to have the resonant fequency of an instrument be above or below the playable notes, which is impossible given what the market demands for wood selection.

PRS beefed up their neck joint to add mass to alter their resonant frequency in 1995.

You may have seen the Fatfinger device in the early 1990s to add weight to the headstock to counter resonant frequency issues.

Some people have been known to put a little baggie with BBs in their control cavity to change their guitars mass.

Many bass builders use two truss rods, or a very heavy truss rod to add weight.

The builder has to decide if the compromise should be made on the lost note with the frequency issue, or a compromise that may yield a less desired tone on all notes in their opinion. Some builders prefer to give away that one note for wha tthey feel is perfect tone everywhere else on the guitar, others feel 95% perfect tone on all notes is a better alternative. Chose your own poison.

HHB
10-16-2004, 10:40 AM
it sucks to hear about the dead spots , and they do exist, but not on every Hamer, not even in the same model line, I had a Newport w/ a really weak G# , but have played several that did not

Joe
10-16-2004, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by big mike blues
Never had any issues at all. UNTIL the move to Connecticut into the Ovation factory. Not all the guys from Arlington Heights went with Hamer. Still great and high quality, but had a few more with issues for return. Usually fretwork or finish. I had hoped they were just growing pains. But I also noticed the level of service to the dealer had slipped as well.,

Jim Allen was let go and Kim Keller was given three jobs, so he is being pulled in many directions at once. When the company went from producing 25 guitars a day to three, they could not afford the staffing. The higher production rates created economies of scale that allowed for more staffing that was lost w/ the move and down sizing.

Hamer is stuck in midsized quagmire. They do not have the staff or space to build more guitars now, so limited resources for support staffing result. They are not small enough to trip over themselves like Thorn or Driskill might because they have payroll to make each week.

I have not had any problems, but I also know all the top honchos so I have no fears of future problems.

I feel Hamer pricing has always been too low and if they raised their prices they could hire more staffing, and then get the respect other like PRS have. Why sell something for $2,000 when your competitor gets 30% more for a similar or lesser product? I understand Jol's concept to give the player the best product the cheapest he can, but part of the product is the service, which higher margins could afford.

big mike
10-16-2004, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by Joe
Jim Allen was let go and Kim Keller was given three jobs, so he is being pulled in many directions at once. When the company went from producing 25 guitars a day to three, they could not afford the staffing. The higher production rates created economies of scale that allowed for more staffing that was lost w/ the move and down sizing.

Hamer is stuck in midsized quagmire. They do not have the staff or space to build more guitars now, so limited resources for support staffing result. They are not small enough to trip over themselves like Thorn or Driskill might because they have payroll to make each week.

I have not had any problems, but I also know all the top honchos so I have no fears of future problems.

I feel Hamer pricing has always been too low and if they raised their prices they could hire more staffing, and then get the respect other like PRS have. Why sell something for $2,000 when your competitor gets 30% more for a similar or lesser product? I understand Jol's concept to give the player the best product the cheapest he can, but part of the product is the service, which higher margins could afford.

Yup. Jim and Kim are great guys. Dealt with Jim all the time before the move. Was sad to see him leave (however it went down).

Side story. Boss' wife at the store was a HUGE Tommy Shaw and Styx fan. This was the reunion tour time when tommy was playing Hamer. Jim managed to get us on short notice, an all black standard mahog. like Tommy's, took it to the show and got everyone to sign it "To Yvonne".

Dat cool or what! Jim's good people.

BBHollowbody
10-16-2004, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by HHB
it sucks to hear about the dead spots , and they do exist, but not on every Hamer, not even in the same model line, I had a Newport w/ a really weak G# , but have played several that did not

True, I have played Newports with one or two dead spots, but I've also played ones that didn't have any.

Joe
10-16-2004, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by BBHollowbody
True, I have played Newports with one or two dead spots, but I've also played ones that didn't have any.

Wood density can add or subtract a few ounces from the overall guitar, thus creating or solving these problems.

Using lighter tuning buttons or changing to a Tone Pros bridge could also alter your weight with good or bad results at the end.

bluegrif
10-16-2004, 11:52 AM
Interesting. I had almost forgot. My 90s Special had a very weak high E string if you used 10s. I had to switch to 11s to get decent string balance. I asked my luthier and he just said "some guitars..." and advised me to try a heavier E. That's something I've not experienced with any of the guitars I've owned over the years. And I've owned quite a few. Still, I think that's an anomaly that wouldn't be found often.

riffmeister
10-16-2004, 01:37 PM
My Hamer Newport (Korina with Seth Lovers) has no dead spots. The materials and fit & finish are truly top notch.

burningyen
10-16-2004, 11:37 PM
felken, that sucks, and I and don't blame you for your reaction. I guess I've just been lucky.

If you haven't already gotten rid of the guitar, I think Joe's suggestions (different tuner buttons and/or TonePros hardware) might help. But they might not, and I can understand not wanting to put more money into a new guitar.

daveS
10-17-2004, 02:11 AM
http://www.pixhost.com/pixd/dmsang/a9_1.jpg:D

JingleJungle
10-17-2004, 09:56 AM
Here's my story, fellows.
A black import Vector (Flying V) fell into my hands (will spare you the grisly details).
Went over to hamerfanclub.com to enquire re. the nature of the beast.
Found a pusher, er...dealer who had some koreen (!!) guitars, such as another Vector and a one-piece body Standard (i.e. Explorer) .
(incipit: I had always wanted a G*bs*n korina Vee and a korina Explorer but the prices - even of the reissues - made me puke).
Parted with the money, played the guits and my brain has never been the same ever since
After that I purchased a USA Standard Custom (i.e. flame-top) and then a Daytona (str*toc*ster, rosewood fretboard, trans. green finish).
So I took 5 doses in about 3 months.... but it ain't enough...
Seen some very nice dope that fellow HFCers have ordered, and guess I'll be addicted for the rest of my life, sigh...

JingleJungle

bluegrif
10-17-2004, 01:28 PM
If I had the cash to spare I'd buy a Hamer USA Korina Vector in a heartbeat! Actually, compared to the Gibson Historic, it's an incredible bargain on the used market (for a nearly identical product). Has anyone got their hands on one of these. I'm speaking of the Hamer version with the '59 appointments of course, not the Vectors that look more like 80s or 90s Metal axes.

Mike Dresch
10-17-2004, 02:13 PM
You mean like this one?
http://www.guitartrader.com/itm_img/EGHMTK-KORINAV-f.jpg

Only 3 and a half grand through guitartrader.com :eek:

bluegrif
10-17-2004, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by Mike Dresch
You mean like this one?
http://www.guitartrader.com/itm_img/EGHMTK-KORINAV-f.jpg

Only 3 and a half grand through guitartrader.com :eek:

Yep. That's the one. I've seen 'em go for not much over 2 grand on ebay, though they certainly don't come up often. No cash right now, but that and the Newport are the Hamers I would really like to buy. I'd really like to have another thinline and I've long wanted a 59 style Korina V. The Gibson Historic is outrageously priced (the mahogany version is reasonable) and the 80s heritage series didn't quite get it right. This Hamer looks absolutely perfect. So rather than a 335 and a Historic, I'd go with the Hamers.

Buffalosix
10-17-2004, 05:23 PM
Hamer is the best-kept secret (that shouldn't be a secret) in the guitarist community, IMHO. I have a Korina Newport with P-90s. Love it. Every bit as good as my PRSi, and I think that if the logo changed on it from Hamer to PRS, the cost would have doubled.

If you get a chance, pay a visit to www.hamerfanclub.com


Cheers.

riffmeister
10-17-2004, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by riffmeister
My Hamer Newport (Korina with Seth Lovers) has no dead spots. The materials and fit & finish are truly top notch.

here's my next one......should arrive tomorrow or the next day.....

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=9438614

:cool:

bluegrif
10-17-2004, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by riffmeister
here's my next one......should arrive tomorrow or the next day.....

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=9438614

:cool:

Very nice! Either that or the single pickup (jr) model would be a lot of fun!

JingleJungle
10-18-2004, 01:13 AM
victorlitz.com has a korina Vector for sale, and willcutt too.
They're both well below 3 and a half grand by about 1k.
There was a mid 90s limited edition on 'bay that went at around 1.7k, it was really really purty...
So...
...Jump on the opportunity if you're interested.
I'll never part with mine, that's for sure!!
(sorry I'm not allowed to post pics for some reason...)

JingleJungle

BadgerDave
10-18-2004, 10:29 AM
I have heard about dead spots on Hamers, but I've never personally experienced the issue an any of the Hamers I've owned or played. I currently have 15, ranging from a 1979 Sunburst to an '04 custom order Studio Custom. Over the years, I've owned at least 50 Hamers and I've played at least 50 others, probably more.

There have been a very small number of QC issues that Hamer has recognized and addressed over the years. These include:

1. Neck twisting on a few pre-1980 models. Hamer solved this problem by implementing its 3 piece reverse grain neck design.

2. Finish chipping on the edge of rosewood fingerboards. This was a problem caused by a lack of adhesion between the lacquer and rosewood. I believe it appeared in the mid 90's and was resolved quickly. I've seen this problem on one guitar and I solved it by masking and sanding off the lacquer on the edge of the rosewood board.

3. "Hameritis" - another mid-90's issue that lasted a bit longer than the fretboard edge problem. It results in a milky white line around the neck/body joint. It's a purely cosmetic finish seperation issue that is often mistaken for a structural flaw or repair.

I have read Mr. Phillip's comments on his 30th Anniversary model. It sounds like that was a guitar that never should have made it past Hamer QC. He got a lemon. I suspect that Hamer would repair or replace it under warranty.

Overall, I think this is a record that would is clearly superior to any of the large manufacturers, and at least equal to any of the small shops. Hamer is one of a very small number of brands that I feel completely confident in buying without holding the guitar in my hands first.

felken
10-18-2004, 11:59 AM
Based on all I had read before buying a new Hamer I thought the same thing about buying new unseen, should be no problem. It did not work out for me as my Newport Pro has about 6 notes that are sustaining 1/2 as long as the rest. That is a far cry from one dead fret.

This guitar made it out of the factory because of poor QA and/or company policy allowing this standard of quality to ship.

To make it worse Hamer will not replace/repair this guitar saying it meets their QA standards. Their standards in this case are not pro quality.

I am out money because of their poor service in this case.

When I spoke to their customer service he said that Hamer had a problem in the mid 90's on studios with dead spots and changed the bridge to fix it so they were letting guitars out with problems before they corrected it.

No manufacturer makes 100% of their product without defect. The good ones have good QA and will not ship product unless it meets the requirements even if it hurts to destroy finished goods.

It is true their are many great Hamers out there but apparantly there are duds also, I know I have one.

Don't bet on Hamer stepping up to the plate and replacing a dud under their factory warrenty, they did not in my case.

Joe
10-18-2004, 12:21 PM
In an internet age it is easy for anyone with a gripe about anything to post it on the net where it stays indefinetely. It is easy to make a brand look good or bad based on these posts.

Hamer like any company has had its problems, but overall I suspect their % of problems is far lower than say Gibson's. It is easy to say Hamer should do "this" or should not have "done this". Gibson lets bad guitars out everyday of the week, and not only one of them per day. At a certain point, companies are forced to say "good enough" unless they are a one man operation that is charging $3000+ per unit.

It has been said that Hamer USA is a break even at best case scenario business. The profits for Kaman apparently come from the imported Hamers. The USA line serves as a flagship more than a profit center. When Bill Kaman owned the operation, it was for his amusement more than his need to produce a profit to eat from. Bill had several different runs of guitars made for his friends as gifts and such. Now that Bill is out of the loop, I would suspect the new owners of Kaman expect profits from every division, which changes the philosophy IMO.

Jol wants Hamer to produce a superior product at a cheaper price than the competition, I do not know that the shareholders of Kaman share this sentiment. The shareholders, I suspect, care about two things, dividends and capital appreciation. I expect Hamer USA pricing to soon reflect these economic goals, at which point the profits will afford the compny the ability to have more support staff than the lone Kim Keller who also has to do all of the Ovation customer support AS WELL.

While Jol's goals are admirible, they are not sound economic decisions. By being cheaper, Hamer has hurt its market appeal IMO. If you can only produce Ferrari like volume, you have to get Ferrari like pricing. Jol wants to sell you a Ferrari for the cost of a Toyota. We have seen from Historic series Gibsons that the market can and will bare higher prices if they believe the pricing is justified. I told Jol a decade ago to raise the prices of Hamers. BMW was just another German car coming to America UNTIL they revamped their image and tripled their prices. Now BMWs are desired yuppie symbols of suburbia, the price is at least half the reason. People want to show off, show they can afford it, show how successful they are. Hamer should seize the opportunity to sepaerate these idiots from their money and laugh all the way to the bank. Hamer is doing itself a diservice by allowing their competition to get all of the aforemention suckers business. Good business is making the MOST you can per hour, ask Bill gates. :D

If you want to join the Peace Corps, do so, just don't do it with greedy shareholders money who have BMW payments to make. :p

felken
10-18-2004, 01:07 PM
If you read my post clearly you would see that I am stating this is probably a fairly isolated case, not the norm for Hamer.

But there are Hamers out there that are not meeting the required quality for the price they charge.

It is a real situation, not a gripe. The guitar is what it is and made it to the public domain.

It was my hard earned money that is gone.

I am open to any ideas Hamer has on salvaging the guitar short of putting external devices on the guitar.

(By the way, I have played for 35 years, am a mechanical design engineer who has worked for 20 years in new product design and manufacturing for commercial markets, ie; non defense, so I know first hand how hard it is to not let product out the door when it should not go.)

This is the internet age and it is good to get both sides in the public domain.

My suggestion: play before you buy even if it is a Hamer.

I wish I would have seen the posts about dead spots on Newports/Hamers before I bought that have been posted in this thread and another recently since I bought the guitar.

Perhaps this will save someone else the heartache.

Joe
10-18-2004, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by felken


But there are Hamers out there that are not meeting the required quality for the price they charge.

It is a real situation, not a gripe.

Perhaps this will save someone else the heartache.

My father's business partner purcahsed a new Jaguar for $68,000. Since he has owned it, about 18 months, it has been towed in half a dozen times. They have replaced the rooters, the tires, the wheel bearings, various computer parts, etc....

I would think that for the price they charge they could get the thing right.

I dated a girl whose father had a 560SEL Mercedes that he paid $55,000 for. With approximately 1,500 miles on it, the exhaust system fell off the car completely.

You name a product, and there is someone somewhere that has had a problem with it. It is nice to be idealistic and say for the price they charge they should get it right 100% of the time, but NONE of them ever do.

I suspect in your 35+ years on earth you have purchased a LOT of things that have not lived up to your expectations, REGARDLESS of what you paid. Are you registering your legitimate complaint about that toaster you got in 1982 on the ToastersFanClub.com to warn people? No, why not?

As I said before, the internet makes it possible for the most minute cases seem like a regular occurance.

I'd stack my Hamer experiences against any other company making any other product given the tremendous upside I have experienced. I am a happy customer with a lot of Hamer purchases and more to come.:dude

felken
10-18-2004, 01:49 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joe
[B]
..... Are you registering your legitimate complaint about that toaster you got in 1982 on the ToastersFanClub.com to warn people? No, why not? .....



Umm, I don't hang out on toaster forums!!

I am glad for you that all your experiences with Hamer were positive, I wish mine were also.

Believe me, I understand that the employees at Hamer have families to feed and thought about what I would say regarding this situation.

In fact I hope the company finds a business model that works for everyone, employee to stockolder to customer.

Looking at the fact that there will not be 100% yield to a given quality standard it is a relativley simple matter to factor that cost in to the product pricing to cover the finished goods that will not make a profit. I would rather pay an extra ~$50-100 bucks and be sure that the product of this price range worked well.

I suspect that the quantity of guitars an outfit like hamer usa would have to destroy or replace would be around 1 in 20 or 30 max, probably less. But they would know the closer, correct number.

My original post states my experience with Hamer, since we are talking about a much larger sum of money than a toaster and this is a great forum for knowledge it is appropriate to post this imo.

ymmv etc....

peace

Joe
10-18-2004, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by felken


This guitar made it out of the factory because of poor QA and/or company policy allowing this standard of quality to ship.

To make it worse Hamer will not replace/repair this guitar saying it meets their QA standards. Their standards in this case are not pro quality.

I am out money because of their poor service in this case.

Did you buy this off a dropped Hamer dealer via ebay perhaps?

bluesman69
10-18-2004, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by Scott Peterson
The USA made Hamers were - and are - among the best at what they do. Materials, hardware, craftmanship is all frirst rate. They were amazing bargins used; and remain good ones (though it seems lately folks are catching on a bit and used prices are up a touch).

I have owned a whole slew of USA Hamers and they have all been excellent. As good as, or better, than any other USA factory. I totally agree!!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/bluesman69/Guitars/Newport1a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/bluesman69/Guitars/Hamer25.jpg'http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/bluesman69/Guitars/HamerDaytona.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/bluesman69/Guitars/HamerEclipse1a.jpg

big mike
10-18-2004, 03:30 PM
Bluesman,

The bottom hamer, the Eclipse?

My all time favorite model. Man those are bad as hell. Great tone, and just a rockin guitar.

bluesman69
10-18-2004, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by big mike blues
Bluesman,

The bottom hamer, the Eclipse?

My all time favorite model. Man those are bad as hell. Great tone, and just a rockin guitar. ]Yeah it rocks!! Especially on slide!!!

felken
10-18-2004, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by Joe
Did you buy this off a dropped Hamer dealer via ebay perhaps?


See my original post.

Do you work for Hamer?

Joe
10-18-2004, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by felken
I recently bought a new usa made Newport Pro from Musicmakers Austin via an internet transaction so I did not play it first. My mistake, but Hamer has a good reputation on line so I took a chance.

This guitar has dead spots around the 12 fret 3rd string and 10 fret second string. The rest of the guitar rings like other guitars I own.

I sent the guitar back to Hamer who honed the frets and sent it back saying it meets their quality.

It is the most expensive guitar I have ever bought and has the worst dead spots of any guitar I have ever owned.

It is very irritating to say the least. The dead spots ring 1/2 as long as the non dead spots so the "instrument" is very unbalanced.

The dead spots are the worst I have ever experienced on a guitar.

I am not impressed at all with Hamer service and am amazed they let this out the door and it meets their quality requirements. I would have not put this out their with my name on it.

I spoke at length with their cust service who said that the problem of dead spots like this can be solved by putting a c clamp on the headstock.

Does that sound like a quality instrument if it needs a clamp on the headstock to balance the dead spots on it???

What is sad to me, besides the loss I will be taking on this, is that the company has the chance to make it right but does not.

They have lost a customer for life.

Let me see if I can fill the blanks for the rest of us reading here.

Did you do any due diligence to confirm that this dealer was still a Hamer USA dealer at the time of your purchase? If you had you would have found out the answer was no, therefore even though the dealer had a NOS hamer, they could not sell you a warranty since they no longer represented the manufacturer.

Did you buy this via ebay? Did you leave the dealer that misrepresented themselves as a current dealer negative feedback, or did you wait months before discussing this problem with anyone?

Why did you not return the guitar to the dealer IMMEDIATELY and call your credit card company to fight the charges? Surely the guitar sucked the second you got it, why wait?

So Hamer took in a guitar that they did not have to deal with at all and did a fret dress and a cleaning for you for FREE, is that correct?

It would appear to me that Hamer went out of their way to help you, when legally speaking you had no ground to stand on. As they say, no good deed goes unpunished.

To think they lost such a good customer too. :confused:

DaxT1138
10-18-2004, 05:01 PM
right on, if they did the fret dress for free and you didn't even have a warranty i'd say they bent over backwards for you. Joe knows his Hamers. he has a ton of em. anyone that had 3 virts at once is up in the collector hall of fame imo.
i love Hamers, here's mine.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/DaxT1138/001.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/DaxT1138/guitars.jpg

felken
10-18-2004, 05:01 PM
click search under my last post and in 1 quick keystroke you will find my original post.

Would you like to trade my Newport Pro for one you have?

I guess according to you only positive experiences with Hamer are allowed here on the gear page.

I do/did not know if Musicmakers was/is dropped.

Did they build the guitar or did Hamer.

The guitar was advertised as new and came in a new Hamer case with a factory card to send in for warrenty which I did. I spoke with Victor at MM before buying it and asked specifically if there was anything wrong with it. He said nothing was wrong with it.

The guitar was new old stock (paraphrased) according to Hamer customer service.

MM says the market for Hamer died in Austin, hense the low bin price. I have no way to know if that is why they ebayed it. The store manager said it was because the Hamer market dried up there. I was told this after the fact.

IMO it is likely or possible this guitar sat behind the counter because it had excessive dead spots, my opinion, no way to verify it.

Bottom line is this new guitar with a ~$2800.00 list price has excessive dead spots and Hamer will not fix or replace it. So much for a good warrenty to original owner.

So, fyi, at the time I bought the guitar I was ready to pay the ~$1700.00 street price and had contacted a number of dealers to find stock. At that time this one popped up new from MM on ebay/internet with a less than street price buy it now price. As I stated in my previous post I took a chance, based on the Hamer USA quality reported here and other web places.

Key point: This was a new guitar.

I stated to Hamer customer service I am willing to pay the difference from what I payed to the current street price as what I want is a good playing Newport Pro which many others payed for and recieved.

My name is Ken McGiboney, I post here and at musictoyz a lot. I don't post at HC and rarely elsewhere.

Who are you? I notice you did not answer my question.

The issue is does a company stand behind their product and fix/replace it.

After reading these threads it appears there have been changes for the worse at Hamer, going from 25/day to 3/day does not appear to be the right trend for growth.

They may in the past years have replaced the guitar but with new mgmt etc... maybe that is why they won't now, who knows?

For the record, I am not bashing Hamer. I know they built many high quality guitars and they obviously have a good reputation but this guitar is sub-standard. Others have stated they have Hamers that are not top notch. I wish Hamer success and actually regret saying they lost a customer for life, they may not have. But I have a guitar that is a dud, how would you feel. Maybe they will read this thread and think of it as a wake up call, that can be a good thing.

You did not answer my question, do you work for Hamer, cat got your tongue??

BBHollowbody
10-18-2004, 05:16 PM
I know Joe, and I know he does not work for Hamer.

I think if you buy a guitar from ebay at a rock bottom price, you get what you pay for. If you don't like it, stick it back on ebay and get your (most) money back.

If you buy from a reputable, stocking, dealer and you do get one that you don't feel is up to snuff, then you could probably send it back and get a different one.

As far as Hamer going from 25 a day to 3 a day, I don't know about those numbers. But, I can say from what I've seen, the quality of Hamer guitars is going up not down. I think I can safely say that I play/see more new Hamer guitars per week than anybody on this board.

T-bone
10-18-2004, 07:33 PM
I love my Newport!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v403/Stv/newpptb-1.jpg

HHB
10-18-2004, 07:38 PM
you guys are jumping on the buyer cause he got a good price? The NOS voids the warranty? This deadspot thing is real, Joe and BB know it is , it's not common but it does exist , and you guys act like this guy is scammin, give me a break, if Kim saw it and thats that is he supposed to be happy? He did not start this thread, so the whole " do you post on a toaster " thing does not apply , he related his experience, and I seen a Hamer or 2 myself

felken
10-18-2004, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by BBHollowbody
I know Joe, and I know he does not work for Hamer.

I think if you buy a guitar from ebay at a rock bottom price, you get what you pay for. If you don't like it, stick it back on ebay and get your (most) money back.

If you buy from a reputable, stocking, dealer and you do get one that you don't feel is up to snuff, then you could probably send it back and get a different one.

As far as Hamer going from 25 a day to 3 a day, I don't know about those numbers. But, I can say from what I've seen, the quality of Hamer guitars is going up not down. I think I can safely say that I play/see more new Hamer guitars per week than anybody on this board.


The 3/day is per Hamer USA customer support.

In the case of this guitar I did not get what I paid for.

Besides the dead spots the guitar looks great, fit and finish top notch.

Selling it at a probable loss is what I will do, too bad the company did not stand behind their work then I would have told that story.

Brewmaster
10-18-2004, 10:38 PM
First I'm happy to see HHB posting here.
He is sorely missed on the Hamer board.

I have owned quite a few USA Hamers and had a problem with only one of them. I bought a Monaco Elite two years ago that was a total dog. It was way to heavy ( I bought it online) and was pretty dead acoustically. It was the only Hamer I came across that had issues but it happens to the best of them. For instance, I had a 95 PRS C 24 that bit the big one. How some of these guitars get shipped out beats the crap out of me but it does happen.

My 95 Studio is one of my favorite guitars of all time but my Newport with Phat Cats is numero uno.
I also currently have a Korina Artist with Rio P-90's that is also a great sounding and playing guitar.

Hamer makes a great guitar and their price on the used market is sick.

Bassomatic
10-18-2004, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by HHB
you guys are jumping on the buyer cause he got a good price? The NOS voids the warranty? This deadspot thing is real, Joe and BB know it is , it's not common but it does exist , and you guys act like this guy is scammin, give me a break, if Kim saw it and thats that is he supposed to be happy? He did not start this thread, so the whole " do you post on a toaster " thing does not apply , he related his experience, and I seen a Hamer or 2 myself

Just Joe, spreadin' the love as usual.:rolleyes:

alpep
10-19-2004, 12:02 AM
I had hamer build this bass for my wife




http://www.hamermuseum.com/hosting/alpep/b2.JPG http://www.hamermuseum.com/hosting/alpep/b11.JPG http://www.hamermuseum.com/hosting/alpep/b4.JPG http://www.hamermuseum.com/hosting/alpep/b3.JPG http://www.hamermuseum.com/hosting/alpep/b5.JPG http://www.hamermuseum.com/hosting/alpep/b9.JPG http://www.hamermuseum.com/hosting/alpep/b6.JPG http://www.hamermuseum.com/hosting/alpep/b7.JPG http://www.hamermuseum.com/hosting/alpep/b1.JPG

bluegrif
10-19-2004, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by HHB
you guys are jumping on the buyer cause he got a good price? The NOS voids the warranty? This deadspot thing is real, Joe and BB know it is , it's not common but it does exist , and you guys act like this guy is scammin, give me a break, if Kim saw it and thats that is he supposed to be happy? He did not start this thread, so the whole " do you post on a toaster " thing does not apply , he related his experience, and I seen a Hamer or 2 myself

I have to agree. There's nothing wrong with researching a product then looking around for the best deal you can find. I've bought many guitars that way myself. And while I've never had the misfortune to get something actually defective, I have bought a few that just didn't work out. I simply resold them and managed to get my money back, luckily.
I think we've established Hamer makes superior instruments. Also that a dud is possible even from a highly respected manufacturer. I, for one, appreciated Felken's story. It won't stop me from buying another Hamer, but it does serve to remind all of us to be cautious and, when buying from a dealer, to be clear about the return policy. Of course if you're buying from an individual, all you can do is ask all the questions you can think of and go with your gut. Bad luck can strike anyone. But when the person who's had the rotten luck tells us about it, we should thank him for giving us a couple more questions to ask the next seller.

JingleJungle
10-19-2004, 03:27 AM
Al...that's a pretty bitchin' bass you had built....
Gotta test your insider connections one of these days ;) ;)

JingleJungle

Joe
10-19-2004, 07:47 AM
Originally posted by felken

The guitar was advertised as new and came in a new Hamer case with a factory card to send in for warrenty which I did. I spoke with Victor at MM before buying it and asked specifically if there was anything wrong with it. He said nothing was wrong with it.

Bottom line is this new guitar with a ~$2800.00 list price has excessive dead spots and Hamer will not fix or replace it. So much for a good warrenty to original owner.

Key point: This was a new guitar.



So the dealer lied to you and you ASSUMED that the warranty was valid, but you you did nothing to confirm this prior to buying.

PERHAPS there is a reason this store is no longer a dealer?

What would you have Hamer do after they drop a dealer? Should Hamer go over to the dealer, pull their stock off the guy's walls and beat him up? Or should a customer entering a deal that looks too good to be true pick up their phone and call the manufacturer and confirm a dealer's status?

I have seen NOS Hamers in stores FIVE YEARS after the dealer was dropped. To assume that Hamer is going to warranty a product with a dealer they dropped is an unrealistic expectation.

You were lied to by the dealer, so in turn you should file suit. If you paid by credit card, regardless of whether it was through Paypal, you had the option of NOT PAYING THE BILL.

Did you leave negative feedback?

Did you return the guitar immediately?

No you did not, so while Hamer may have built a lemon, you did NOTHING to help yourself fend off an economic loss.

Had you called the dealer IMMEDIATELY and told him your complaints and that you had ALREADY sent the guitar back, you would have been in the clear with the credit card company.

Once hamer drops a dealer, they are OUT OF THE LOOP, including the warranty, this is the POINT of dropping the dealer.

There are many mom and pop shops that sell Fender guitars that are not dealers, they get them back doored from legit dealers, but those guitars are NOT cover by the warranty card in the case.

The customer bares some responsibility to ensure that they are dealing with an authorized dealer, otherwise it is a crap shot just like buying off ebay from a private individual.

If I buy a used guitar from a guy on ebay and the warranty card is still in the case, does that mean the warranty goes to me? No it does not.

IN FACT, the warranty card is a JOKE, it is a way to get you on the companies junk mail list. Your warranty is your original store receipt in YOUR name, used for a claim within the manufacturers terms, IF purchased from an authorized dealer.

When you go to court no one asks to see your warranty card you sent in, they ask to see your RECEIPT.

bRoWn-SoUnD
10-19-2004, 07:56 AM
WOW!! :eek: That is a killer guitar!!! She's gotta love that thing!!!!

HHB
10-19-2004, 08:03 AM
who is culpable?

Randy
10-19-2004, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by Joe

Once hamer drops a dealer, they are OUT OF THE LOOP, including the warranty, this is the POINT of dropping the dealer.

There are many mom and pop shops that sell Fender guitars that are not dealers, they get them back doored from legit dealers, but those guitars are NOT cover by the warranty card in the case.

The customer bares some responsibility to ensure that they are dealing with an authorized dealer, otherwise it is a crap shot just like buying off ebay from a private individual.



I highly doubt Hamer would appreciate your playing spokesman on their support policies. If the above is truly Hamer's position (which I doubt) it is complete BS.

They are not mass producing toasters here, they hand make 3 guitars a day - right? Isn't the whole idea behind a USA Hamer that it is the epitomy of craftsmanship - 14 coats of lacquer, the whole 9 yards.

If Hamer would actually try to use the fact that the dealer a guitar was purchased from is no longer active, as a loophole for repairing a defective product, they certainly deserve to lose that customer. What happened to standing behind your product?

Why should the onus be on the customer to verify whether a dealer is still in good standing before purchasing? That's ridiculous! Hamer was the one who made a mistake in granting a dealership to a store that ended up not meeting their critieria. Why should the customer have to suffer because of Hamer's error?

Joe
10-19-2004, 08:47 AM
I can not think of a single guitar brand that ALLOWS dealers to sell new inventory via ebay, so that is a red flag IMO.

Internet sales are fine via gbase and such for most brands, but simply throwing new merchandise onto ebay as a store policy? Can not think of a brand that allows this for authorized dealerships.

As for the guitar in question, perhaps it was stored near a heat source? Ever see a guitar that gets hotter on one side than the other for years on end? The side by the heater dries out faster, causing the neck to twist. We have no idea why the guitar has issues, and we are taking it on face value that the issues even exist, which we may want to rethink when we learn:

The customer misrepresented his conversations to both the dealer and the manufacturer to try to force the two ends to his point of view and it back fired, his only option left is to bad mouth each on the internet.

And finally why did this all take place months later, not at the time of the sale? Where is the negative feedback for the dealer that you say lied to you?

If you dislike the guitar so much, sell it on Harmony Central where there is no fear of feedback. Don't tell us you have to take the high road now and disclose the problems to a potential buyer, after you have been caught in numerous lies already. :rolleyes:

Unburst
10-19-2004, 09:04 AM
Hamer basses rock!
I've been using one since 1990, I still haven't played a bass that I like better.

BBHollowbody
10-19-2004, 10:25 AM
I hope I didn't give the impression of jumping on Felken's case for getting a good deal, I was just giving a suggestion.

The person who started the thread wanted opinions on Hamer guitars, and Felken gave an opinion. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

bluegrif
10-19-2004, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by BBHollowbody
I hope I didn't give the impression of jumping on Felken's case for getting a good deal, I was just giving a suggestion.

The person who started the thread wanted opinions on Hamer guitars, and Felken gave an opinion. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

No there isn't. And, as I said, I appreciate hearing the story. Particularly since I buy more used than new guitars. And while most of my guitars were bought after I examined them, I have purchased 4 or 5 on ebay and can really sympathize with someone who finds a great deal on a guitar he really wants only to have it arrive with an unforseen problem. I've been fortunate so far. The guitars I've resold didn't have actual defects, they just didn't suit me in one way or another. I've never bought a guitar with dead spots, and I'm not so sure I would have thought of that possibility before. In nearly 40 years of playing I haven't seen serious dead spots on anything but budget imports. That's no slam against Hamer, just my experience. In fact there are a couple of Hamer models I'd really love to own. Since they're not available locally, it's nice to be forwarned of ANY potential problem, even if unusual or remote. We all know every production maker produces some stinkers (and contrary to the fantasies of some, always have). Sure it's best to buy from reliable dealers who offer an approval period. And frankly, I probably wouldn't buy an over $1K guitar any other way. But if something special were to come up at auction, who knows. Most sellers with lots of good feedback will take something back if you're really unhappy. But I'll now be extremely cautious if a guitar is advertised as NOS!

felken
10-19-2004, 11:14 AM
I guess Joe owns Hamer stock or something.

He is also putting words in my mouth.

Did he not read my earlier post that Hamer took the guitar back on an RA number and after honing the frets said it meets their quality requirements. That means the neck is not twisted etc... And guess what, the neck is not twisted according to cust support. I can tell it is not twisted either, I agree with Hamer.

Joe can try to discredit me and I will own up to mistakes I made. I should have returned the guitar to MM right away but instead chose to deal with the manufacturer under a manufacturer warrenty. The guitar spent about 5 weeks away from me including shipping accross country.

Per Hamers request I have contacted MM but they are not willing to do anything other than listen to what Hamer says; ie, if Hamer were to fix/replace the guitar they are willing to work with the situation. The ball is in Hamers court. I have left voicemail with Hamer cust support but have not heard back.

So it seems Joe is saying that since I did not handle it right away with MM that it is ok for the guitar to have dead spots.

My point is that not all Hamers live up to their reputation and their service is lacking. Others have had Hamers that have dead spots.

bye

Turbo Gerbil
10-19-2004, 11:15 AM
For the record, I've had dead spots on all kinds of guitars from different manufacturers, including PRS and Hamer. My #1 guitar, a '92 PRS CE-24, has a noticable dead spot at 12th fret G. Annoying but I work around it. Actually, it comes in kinda handy sometimes since that particular note will almost immediately go into feedback. :) G and G# seem to be suseptible to deadspots on thin neck guitars like I favor, thats one of the reasons PRS increased the mass in the neck heel. Didn't work very well though, I had the same dead spot on a 2000 CE-24 as well.

All hail the mighty Hamer Californian.

http://www.turbogerbil.com/guitars/HamerCaliFull.jpg

Joe
10-19-2004, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by felken
I should have returned the guitar to MM right away but instead chose to deal with the manufacturer under a manufacturer warrenty. The guitar spent about 5 weeks away from me including shipping accross country.

Per Hamers request I have contacted MM but they are not willing to do anything other than listen to what Hamer says; ie, if Hamer were to fix/replace the guitar they are willing to work with the situation. The ball is in Hamers court. I have left voicemail with Hamer cust support but have not heard back.

So it seems Joe is saying that since I did not handle it right away with MM that it is ok for the guitar to have dead spots.

My point is that not all Hamers live up to their reputation and their service is lacking. Others have had Hamers that have dead spots.

bye

No what I am saying is, when you buy a guitar from a dealer that lied to you and told you there was warranty that did not exist, you can not then go around and bad mouth Hamer's service. The ONLY solution you find acceptable is for Hamer to refund or replace the guitar that you bought from a non authorized dealer. Your complaints should focus on Music Makers since according to you they misrepresented the condition of the guitar as well as the warranty, but you want Hamer to solve it for you.

If this thread was about "should I buy a guitar from Music Makers in Austin, TX?" then I could see your points, but to use this thread to twist around the liability from yourself and Music Makers to make Hamer look bad is underhanded IMO.

Hamer tried to help you, when they did not have to do anything. I suspect that experiences like this will force Hamer and other manufacurers to simply respond "sorry, they are not an authorized dealer, no warranty" and be done with it, saving themselves the time, expense and trouble of dealing with ingrateful people like you who then use their generousity against them.

I suggest you buy Gibsons from now on, their service is impeccable.:rolleyes:

felken
10-19-2004, 11:53 AM
Hamer has never said the guitar is not under warrenty. The guitar is under warrenty.

Joe, please read my posts more carefully. I have stated I am open to anything Hamer can do to fix the guitar short of mounting external devices etc...

I have also stated I am willing to pay the difference from street price and what I payed.

Clearly you have an agenda.

You seem to have a dog in a race that is not yours, I don't get it.

Joe
10-19-2004, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by felken
The guitar is under warrenty.

It isn't, but tell yourself what ever you want to hear.

Is my warranty transferable?
No, all Kaman Music warranty policies are valid only to the original purchaser with a warranty card on file or a copy of the original sales receipt as proof of purchase.

When the dealer is dropped, THEY become the original purchaser of the guitar and afterwards the guitar is considered USED.

You want to believe the guitar is new, but it really is not in Kaman's opinion and THIS is where your conflict lies.

Your dealer would have/should have known that once he was dropped his ability to have Hamer warranty the items was over. His ignorance or intential misrepresentation of these facts are between the dealer and you. The company has no way to retrieve product that is in the market place upon the termination of a dealership agreement, so you got caught in the middle.

I can assure however that the dealership contract Music Makers signed clearly states what happens upon termination of the contract. You took MMs statements on face value and you did not research the facts but took MMs account as true, and unfortuantely you lost out. But as I have said endlessly, you are barking up the wrong tree, the dealer that sold you a three year old demo guitar that was dropped as a dealer could never warranty the guitar, and if he said he could, he lied.

Your best chance of a happy resolution was with the dealer before your credit card bill came. For what ever reason, you let that opportunity pass and now all you can do is resell the guitar, maybe at a profit. You learned a lesson, dealers in good standing do not dump stock on ebay at or below cost.

BadgerDave
10-19-2004, 02:11 PM
Ken (felken),

I'm sorry that you're having problems with the Newport.

Dead spots are rather common on basses. Fender and Rickenbacker basse are notorious for having random deadspots and devices like the "fatfinger" have been developed to address the problem. Generations of bass players have lived with and worked around these inherent issues.

Dead spots are far less common on guitars, but they exist, as you have experienced. This is not a design or manufacturing defect and I don't believe that any large scale maufacturer would cover it under warranty. This may sound like voodoo, but as Joe pointed out, it's a matter of resonance and phase cancellation. Guitars are made of wood and no two pieces are identical.

It would be nice if Hamer replaced your guitar, but it sounds like that's not going to happen for two reasons:

1. Your guitar isn't eligible for factory warranty coverage, and

2. The problem you're experiencing isn't covered under warranty.

As has been mentioned, you can sometimes get rid of dead spots by changing the mass of the neck. Like you, I wouldn't be too excited about clamping anything like a C-clamp or fatfinger to my headstock, but there is a simpler "fix" that may work. You can replace the tuner buttons with ebony or pearloid buttons that are significantly lighter than the metal buttons that come on your Newport. This reduces the mass of the headstock and alters the resonant frequency. If the shift is enough, you may eliminate the phase cancellation entirely.

You could also try replacing the tailpiece with a lightweight aluminum model, but I don't think that will be as likely to solve the problem.

Replacement tuner buttons are available therough Stewart McDonald. www.stewmac.com

If your Newport has Schaller tuners, I'd be happy to send you a set of replacements to try. If they work, you can send me a check for half of what StewMac charges. If not, you can just sent them back. My e-mail is: david.owen@mchsi.com

jackaroo
10-19-2004, 03:00 PM
nice! good vibes. better than beating up the guy.

jd

felken
10-19-2004, 03:19 PM
Thanks for the positive responses and suggestions.

I am not sure that lowering the headstock mass is the right direction. According to Kim at Hamer increasing the mass at the headstock will move the resonances a few octives up which would solve the problem.

I am not sure at this point what I will try, gonna think it over some.

Anyone want to buy a Newport Pro that meets Hamer QA standards:)

riffmeister
10-19-2004, 09:55 PM
Just got my dual P90 Special in vintage Korina.

Woo Hoo! No dead spots.........just live ones!!! :dude


I think I'm going to like this guitar........

big mike
10-19-2004, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by riffmeister
Just got my dual P90 Special in vintage Korina.

Woo Hoo! No dead spots.........just live ones!!! :dude


I think I'm going to like this guitar........


Those are great! I used to have the Mahogany one. Best Hamer I had. Just killer. Still have a Daytona, though I had to change the neck.

HeyMrTeleMan
09-29-2006, 12:12 PM
It isn't, but tell yourself what ever you want to hear.

Is my warranty transferable?
No, all Kaman Music warranty policies are valid only to the original purchaser with a warranty card on file or a copy of the original sales receipt as proof of purchase.

When the dealer is dropped, THEY become the original purchaser of the guitar and afterwards the guitar is considered USED....

OK, so if the dealer is dropped, then Hamer should buy back any unsold inventory, right? They'd have too much control over their dealers if they didn't. I don't blame the dealer for selling the guitar, but I do blame them for not insisting that Hamer take it/them back. Now someone is going to unknowingly end up with this guitar and it may just circulate and circulate and a lot of bad karma will be created over just one guitar. If I were Hamer, I'd buy it back, glad it's not out continuing to spread bad will. It IS their guitar and name on it.

I know a lot about this issue, it happened to me (though I'm not in the guitar biz). I sucked it up, made good at major expense, and saved my street cred. But that's just me...

I am not in judgement as to who is at fault here. It's just what I think Hamer should do, because good will is far better than bad.

I had a bad experience with two different European car makers, and will NEVER say anything nice about them, to anyone, ever. A grudge is a terrible thing to hold...

BLP

ricoh
09-29-2006, 02:21 PM
I did not read through the entire thread so I am not sure where it went but I am happy with my Triple Threat Studio Custom. Great sound and build quality.

phantasm
09-29-2006, 02:59 PM
I had a hamer and i don't even think i had it for a full year- it was the Rick Neilson model (the one that looked like the original explorers w/ the splt headstock).
There was just something weird with it after palying it for a while. It was constructed really well, maybe it had a twisted neck or something?

That was my only Hamer experience aside from playing a few of the "prototype" models, i liked those a whole bunch.