As a method, what do you think about...

[Ryguy]

focusing for a awhile just on learning long hard (bop in this case) lines as fast as you can play 'em?

I have been playing professionally, and mostly full-time for the last 12 years (20 overall). I have always played blues, soul, etc. and dabbled in jazz, but am finally getting more serious about jazz improvisation, and am studying several hours a day again, 2 young kids notwithstanding; I have been focusing mostly on theory, chord building, and trying to build vocabulary, and doing ok studying solo.

But between studying, and trying to push harder on gigs, I was getting really frustrated about my technical limitations, especially regarding music, or phrasing I can hear, and understand, but not play. I am pretty much self-taught, and have developed a somewhat akward (natural lefty playing righty) mixture of finger plucking and picking, and I struggle with speed, and consistency. So I recently decided to take some lessons again, and got recommended to a smoking local jazz and fusion player. His classes are costly (for me), but long, and most of the content (in terms of "homework") is long lines running through 5 positions, major and minor/dominant. I have only taken 2 classes so far, and am sure I will be faced with many different challenges if I continue. So this this really is not an evaluation of the teacher, as much as a personal reflection, but...

so far I am finding it challenging, and fun, and notice how it is focusing my efforts on technique within the context of the music I am playing, which I truly believe in. I also teach, but struggle when it comes to organizing and evaluating my own progress. However much I study about theory, when it comes to jazz I find I connect best through vocabulary, and really trust in it as a guide. There is really so much to learn, and (it seems) so little time, that getting right to the heart of the matter appeals to me on various levels, and this type of study tool seems like a compressed, efficient method, (and helps at work!). I should also point out that I read horribly, and am interested in improving. The excercises are in standard notation with tab below, so I am trying to use the latter to learn the former.

That being said, I am interested in hearing the opinions of some of our experienced jazz players and educators here on this subject in general (and my case in particular if you are so inclined :YinYang).

[Flyin' Brian]

There are many many excellent jazz players who don't find it necessary to burn when improvising. I think that playing within one's own limitations works best. It keeps one's conscious brain out of the process and allows one to really make music.

I know that there have been things I've heard in my head and not been able to pull off technically. The problem is that if I sit down and learn whatever it is, I then go looking for places to "make it fit" and it sounds like crap musically even if I get it out technically.

[willhutch]

It sounds like you have two goals: a) to improve technique and b) to learn jazz.

Practicing bebop runs is a good way to get good at bebop runs. You might try to isolate bits and parts of those runs that yield the sounds you like. If you examine the runs, I bet you'll find, for instance, chord tones played on the downbeats connected by chromatic passing tones. Learning the sub-units inside of these long runs is really helpful in concocting your own lines and gaining technical facility.

But if you are serious about jazz, there is no substitute for learning a bunch of tunes - melody, chords, soloing. I don't think you can really play jazz without this.

Transcribing a bunch of solos will take you far, too. I think this is another necessity if you wanna play jazz for real.

All of these activities pay dividends in terms of technique. You gain the technique you need to execute the sounds you are chasing.

[Ryguy]

Thanks gents. Totally agree, I am also learning tunes, and have always transcribed solos, that is pretty much how I learned to play. Most of the lines I have been looking at full of phrases and "sub-unit" that I am familiar with or already play. The challenge so far is connecting them consistently. Also, I am not interested in pulling these lines off live or force them into tunes when I'm playing live. That is actually one of my concerns about spending so much time on them; will the improvement in technique, which is really noticeable already especially with my picking, carry over to my own/other long complex lines?

As far a burning, it is not something that I want to do or hear all the time, but some uptempo stuff just demands (to my ears/head whatever) a level of speed and consistency with 8th and 16th note lines that I don't have yet. My favorite players didn't, or don't burn all the time, but when I listen to old Tal Farlow or Pat Martino, not to mention a lot of the tenor players I really dig, I want to get some of that fluidity.