View Full Version : best way to match voice to key
what's the best way to decide what key to sing a tune in?
I start at what the original music was in, and if it seems high, i drop it down 1/2 step, but i think my range could possibly go down a full or more steps, or maybe even a tad higher.
i have a vocal clip in the members soundclip area, and am wondering if i should try singing it higher or lower, currently it's 1/2 step below the original.
decay-o-caster
10-24-2004, 11:33 PM
Go the other way. Sing the song the way your voice wants to sing it, then figure out what key that is. Don't start with the original and fool around trying to find your key - find your key, and transpose the song to it.
well i started out singing to the record, but can't go that high, but I can live with a few missed high notes.
But if I try to center my voice around the particular song to get the high notes, it will be overall way way low, and not so pretty...
Originally posted by decay-o-caster
Go the other way. Sing the song the way your voice wants to sing it, then figure out what key that is. Don't start with the original and fool around trying to find your key - find your key, and transpose the song to it.
decay-o-caster
10-24-2004, 11:51 PM
Well, if the song has a wider range than you do, no key will work! However, you can move the "outlying" parts up or down an octave within the key that works best for you overall.
I sing the chorus of "Can't Find My Way Home" (the "...near the end and I just ain't got the time" section) down an octave, for example.
would you say i should octave up or down some parts?
Originally posted by decay-o-caster
Well, if the song has a wider range than you do, no key will work! However, you can move the "outlying" parts up or down an octave within the key that works best for you overall.
I sing the chorus of "Can't Find My Way Home" (the "...near the end and I just ain't got the time" section) down an octave, for example.
decay-o-caster
10-25-2004, 09:21 PM
Well, let's see -
You chose to sing a song written by a woman with a multi-octave range who wasn't afraid to use it - hell, she wrote songs to show it off!
I think you might have bitten off a bit more than you could chew there. But since you ask, I'd maybe go an octave up on the verse, since you seen more comfortable in the higher register than you sounded in the lower register.
But again, sing the song without the guitar so it's comfortable for you. Then pick up the guitar and figure out what key you sang it in.
But mostly, I'd choose an easier song!
thanks, that's good feedback, i will try it an octave up tomorrow.
She still sings it or did on a recent CD and her voice is lower with possibly less range than in '69 or when it first came out. There was an interesting interview with her on NPR's Fresh Aire that interested me to look up the chords and her tuning for that song, so I keep one guitar tuned in "Joni tuning"...
Tomorrow I may do an Aimee Mann song, I think her range is narrower.
Originally posted by decay-o-caster
Well, let's see -
You chose to sing a song written by a woman with a multi-octave range who wasn't afraid to use it - hell, she wrote songs to show it off!
I think you might have bitten off a bit more than you could chew there. But since you ask, I'd maybe go an octave up on the verse, since you seen more comfortable in the higher register than you sounded in the lower register.
But again, sing the song without the guitar so it's comfortable for you. Then pick up the guitar and figure out what key you sang it in.
But mostly, I'd choose an easier song!
but I don't think I can go as high as I tried in my last clip (bsn3.mp3)
Originally posted by decay-o-caster
Well, let's see -
You chose to sing a song written by a woman with a multi-octave range who wasn't afraid to use it - hell, she wrote songs to show it off!
I think you might have bitten off a bit more than you could chew there. But since you ask, I'd maybe go an octave up on the verse, since you seen more comfortable in the higher register than you sounded in the lower register.
But again, sing the song without the guitar so it's comfortable for you. Then pick up the guitar and figure out what key you sang it in.
But mostly, I'd choose an easier song!
How about taking vocal lessons to increase your range and have the teacher help you select songs that you can do? If a song is in A and you sing it in G it will sound off IMO. If you can't do a song today, work on it in your lessons so that can do it someday.
To me this is like saying, I want to play this Yngwie tune, but I want to do it in Db instead of Eb and I will skip the solos because they are too hard, think anyone will notice? Either you have to raise yourself up to the lecel of songs you wish to perform, or you must reduce the songs you perform to your ability level. MANY cover bands are forced to play within their limited range, while a $1,000 an hour wedding band does not have the same limitations.
Bassomatic
11-08-2004, 02:00 PM
Wow. You sound like a cross between a pitchy Mr. Rogers and Grover. There may be an angle here!;)
Testudo
11-08-2004, 04:45 PM
Skip octaves, adjust a few passages, do whatever you need to - it's called making the song your own. A lot of professional singers have done just fine without an enormous range or particularly good instrument. Leonard Cohen comes to mind. Juice Newton had a range of an octave on a good day.
It's nothing like transposing an Yngwie song and leaving out the solos. Well, maybe it is. I don't know. I'd be willing to transpose an Yngwie song and do it without the solos, if the mood ever struck me.
In my life I have changed meters to songs, taken music with a lot of chords and stripped it down to about three, taken three-chord songs and turned them into songs with a lot of chords, changed melody lines, all kinds of things. Once I multitracked "Happy Birthday" singing it in 8 different keys.
Here's some ways I find my key for a song:
First, know the song without having to sing along to the recording.
Method 1
Know the opening chord or chords. If you can start singing with only one chord, it's really easy. Keep moving the chord up or down, give yourself a moment to find you tonality, and sing it, a cappella. Don't bother trying to play all the chords because it may take a while to find your key. Do this until you find the best key.
Method 2:
Find the highest note in the song, and how it relates to tonic - the key of the piece. Find your highest note. Transpose accordingly.
Lessons might not give you a bigger range. Lessons might make you sing better, though.
sounds like some good methods to start with. Ironically I've been offered a wedding job, but am turning it down, i just don't feel comfortable with vocals enough yet. Here are some recent vocal covers:
neil young:
http://www.tedm.com/mp3s/tgdiv1.mp3
http://www.tedm.com/mp3s/tgdivide1.mp3
http://www.tedm.com/mp3s/bandit1.mp3
http://www.tedm.com/mp3s/campaign1.mp3
http://www.tedm.com/mp3s/lookfwd1.mp3
aimee mann:
http://www.tedm.com/mp3s/gw1.mp3
http://www.tedm.com/mp3s/gw2.mp3
http://www.tedm.com/mp3s/saveme1a.mp3
http://www.tedm.com/mp3s/redvines1rev.mp3
joni mitchell:
http://www.tedm.com/mp3s/bsn1stdn.mp3
http://www.tedm.com/mp3s/bsn3.mp3
http://www.tedm.com/mp3s/20041024bnsa.mp3
Originally posted by Testudo
Skip octaves, adjust a few passages, do whatever you need to - it's called making the song your own. A lot of professional singers have done just fine without an enormous range or particularly good instrument. Leonard Cohen comes to mind. Juice Newton had a range of an octave on a good day.
It's nothing like transposing an Yngwie song and leaving out the solos. Well, maybe it is. I don't know. I'd be willing to transpose an Yngwie song and do it without the solos, if the mood ever struck me.
In my life I have changed meters to songs, taken music with a lot of chords and stripped it down to about three, taken three-chord songs and turned them into songs with a lot of chords, changed melody lines, all kinds of things. Once I multitracked "Happy Birthday" singing it in 8 different keys.
Here's some ways I find my key for a song:
First, know the song without having to sing along to the recording.
Method 1
Know the opening chord or chords. If you can start singing with only one chord, it's really easy. Keep moving the chord up or down, give yourself a moment to find you tonality, and sing it, a cappella. Don't bother trying to play all the chords because it may take a while to find your key. Do this until you find the best key.
Method 2:
Find the highest note in the song, and how it relates to tonic - the key of the piece. Find your highest note. Transpose accordingly.
Lessons might not give you a bigger range. Lessons might make you sing better, though.
I understand about the Yngwie parts, because the solos are the highlights, so you'd better be able to do them.
I'm not so sure that you can't sing a song in a different key, if you track Neil or Joni's performances over the decades, they've sung their own songs in lower keys as needed. I'll gladly deduct 10% off a wedding performance if there's some major high notes I can't handle ;)
Originally posted by Joe
How about taking vocal lessons to increase your range and have the teacher help you select songs that you can do? If a song is in A and you sing it in G it will sound off IMO. If you can't do a song today, work on it in your lessons so that can do it someday.
To me this is like saying, I want to play this Yngwie tune, but I want to do it in Db instead of Eb and I will skip the solos because they are too hard, think anyone will notice? Either you have to raise yourself up to the lecel of songs you wish to perform, or you must reduce the songs you perform to your ability level. MANY cover bands are forced to play within their limited range, while a $1,000 an hour wedding band does not have the same limitations.
juniorspecial
11-08-2004, 09:56 PM
FWIW:
One thing I think you've got to be able to do:
keep a solid tempo in your guitar playing while you are singing!
Your tempo goes way off as soon as you open your mouth!
Testudo
11-08-2004, 10:02 PM
You've got a definite Daniel Johnston vibe going there. I say keep working!
without bass and drums, i can kind of free form it, but i guess you caught me!!
Originally posted by juniorspecial
FWIW:
One thing I think you've got to be able to do:
keep a solid tempo in your guitar playing while you are singing!
Your tempo goes way off as soon as you open your mouth!
Who is Daniel Johnston?? So I don't sound like Neil, Joni, and Aimee?? ;)
Originally posted by Testudo
You've got a definite Daniel Johnston vibe going there. I say keep working!
Testudo
11-08-2004, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by tedm
Who is Daniel Johnston?? So I don't sound like Neil, Joni, and Aimee?? ;)
WHO IS DANIEL JOHNSTON????
WHO IS DANIEL JOHNSTON????
Must.....stop.....self..........from........tearin g....brain.....out......through....the.......nostr ils.......
Until you know Daniel Johnston and his body of work, you just can't move forward. That goes for all of you.
And to answer your second question: no.:p
OK, I googled him, seems like he and Jandek have a lot in common besides being from TX.
Hey, what's with those shoes you're pimping? The coolest shoes I've seen lately are the ones Uma Thurman wears in Kill Bill V.1
Originally posted by Testudo
WHO IS DANIEL JOHNSTON????
WHO IS DANIEL JOHNSTON????
Must.....stop.....self..........from........tearin g....brain.....out......through....the.......nostr ils.......
Until you know Daniel Johnston and his body of work, you just can't move forward. That goes for all of you.
And to answer your second question: no.:p
Testudo
11-09-2004, 01:31 PM
Those are the best shoes on earth, man. I put on a pair and was hooked. Most comfortable ever, but unlike other "comfortable" shoes, these are not ugly as sin.
Of course, I never thought I would be buying shoes more expensive than my wife's.:eek: :NUTS
hey everyone, let's all go and buy matte's latest cd and listen to it!!!
Originally posted by Matte
...anyone who wants to become a musician will succeed admirably by doing the opposite of anything that tedm posts, either in text or in sound.
Testudo
11-10-2004, 03:52 PM
Ted, I will wait for the collaborative album with you and Matte. That I will buy, and listen to a lot.
In fact, I will personally guarantee 50 units sold at full retail.
but i get to play lead guitar!! also, probably should use my vocals, haven't heard matte's, they could be worese ... ;)
Originally posted by Testudo
Ted, I will wait for the collaborative album with you and Matte. That I will buy, and listen to a lot.
In fact, I will personally guarantee 50 units sold at full retail.
Testudo
11-10-2004, 04:47 PM
Ted, Ted, you spotlight hog...SHARE the lead work with Matte. And consider the possibilities of duets.
matte
11-10-2004, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by tedm
but i get to play lead guitar!! also, probably should use my vocals, haven't heard matte's, they could be worese ... ;) Actually, I intially got accepted as a Voice Major for my MFA(There was no formal guitar programme at that time). :)
ok matte, lay down some phat tracks, with vocals, guitars, whatever you got, then i'll put the finishing touches on them, and we'll sell 50 copies @ 13.99 MSRP to Tetsudo and gang... go for it!! My studio is powered on...
Originally posted by Matte
Actually, I intially got accepted as a Voice Major for my MFA(There was no formal guitar programme at that time). :)
lhallam
11-10-2004, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by Matte
Actually, I intially got accepted as a Voice Major for my MFA(There was no formal guitar programme at that time). :)
Bass? Tenor? I imagine you had an admission jury, what piece did you sing? Did you continue with voice throughout your time there?
I think most anybody can get accepted anywhere for formal music school. Hell, I get accepted to Berklee about once a year, usually at the time I renew my Guitar Player subscription ;)
Originally posted by lhallam
Bass? Tenor? I imagine you had an admission jury, what piece did you sing? Did you continue with voice throughout your time there?
matte
11-10-2004, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by tedm
ok matte, lay down some phat tracks, with vocals, guitars, whatever you got, then i'll put the finishing touches on them, and we'll sell 50 copies @ 13.99 MSRP to Tetsudo and gang... go for it!! My studio is powered on... Sounds like a plan(9).
lhallam
11-10-2004, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by tedm
I think most anybody can get accepted anywhere for formal music school. Hell, I get accepted to Berklee about once a year, usually at the time I renew my Guitar Player subscription ;)
Wrong, Eastman, Florida, Indiana & Julliard have very rigid standards just to name a few. You haven't lived until you've done a jury. I've seen grown men come out of a jury in tears.
Testudo
11-10-2004, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by lhallam
Wrong, Eastman, Florida, Indiana & Julliard have very rigid standards just to name a few. You haven't lived until you've done a jury. I've seen grown men come out of a jury in tears.
You seem to know your musci school stuff - what's your instrument?
I did go through all that as a singer. I got accepted at Indiana but decided the atmosphere wasn't the one I was looking for. I did Cincinnati instead.
neils version of the great divide is here:
www.tedm.com/mp3s/nytgdiv.mp3
my versions:
http://www.tedm.com/mp3s/tgdiv1.mp3
http://www.tedm.com/mp3s/tgdivide1.mp3
and his version of song of love (distant camera) is here:
www.tedm.com/mp3s/nysol.mp3
my version:
http://www.tedm.com/mp3s/songofl1arev.mp3
Does this sound like standard 4/4 timing? the bass/piano lines in the great divide throw me off. I can't say "1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and" to these tunes.
would you learn to play the guitar part with the reference recording first, memorize it, and then learn to sing to it, or vice versa??
how do you count and sing and play guitar at the same time, seems like you have to memorize the guitar/counting so it's down in the subconscious, then concentrate on singing, unless you're multracking ...
Bassomatic
11-10-2004, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by tedm
I think most anybody can get accepted anywhere for formal music school.
The sketchiness of Berkeley's 'standards' notwithstanding, this is dead wrong.
lhallam
11-11-2004, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by Testudo
You seem to know your musci school stuff - what's your instrument?
I did go through all that as a singer. I got accepted at Indiana but decided the atmosphere wasn't the one I was looking for. I did Cincinnati instead.
You must have some pipes on you, Indiana is a serious music college.
Majored in Music Ed class of '77 with classical gtr as my main instrument and piano secondary. At the time, few schools offered a Liberal Arts degree with a gtr major. So I found a small college that did - Park College KCMO. My old man wanted me to transfer to Florida but I didn't want to go. No regrets but if I had & gotten in, I probably would have met Steve Morse and company.
Not that I could get into the big schools anyway as I picked up classical at 18 just so I could major in music.
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