My No Amp Rig... M13 and Liverpool

[SBRocket]

Hi! So here is my latest rig. I've played a few shows with it and it sounds really great. Still not as great as a cranked amp, but in the context of the band and playing a show, you would probably not know the difference. And in one way I actually like it a lot more than using an amp on stage.

I have really begun to like the stage volume of this kind of setup. Everyone gets some guitar in their monitors so I can hear myself all over the stage and there is no super loud "hot spot" where all I hear is guitar. I feel like I am hearing the mix better and consequentially playing better.

http://gallery.me.com/steveborne/100001/PBPics/web.jpg?ver=12429092450001

The Liverpool is in the loop of the M13 and the M13 is perfect for this setup because the knobs are always active. So everywhere I go I just set up and quickly tweak.

Steve

[Elmer]

I have considered going this route myself. I already have an M13 and the Liverpool is fairly cheap. I think this would make a great backup rig, glad to hear that it works well!

:BEER

[tbhuey]

What is your signal chain, what is the pedal with the green knob?

[riffboy76]

Very cool setup. Was thinking of doing the same. I like how putting the Liverpool in the M13 loop will allow you to get a stereo signal on the M13 outs, too bad the loop uses up a space for an effect on the M13 though.

[jgm]

Looks great (and nice tele BTW). I've been running either my Liverpool or my Blonde or both in place of a gain pedal on my main board and the results are excellent:

Guitar> Clyde Deluxe > MDV2 > Barber LTD SR > Small Fry > Blonde and/or Liverpool > Supa Trem > Retrosonic Delay > Picthblack > Radial JDI > Board.

Everything fits on a Pedaltrain II, and I bring two teles :BEER. Only thing I'm looking at now is setting up a little three space "board" to handle the Liverpool, Blonde and JDI separately so I don't have to do the shuffle so often. But I find these sitting after the gain and before the delay work best for my tastes and I might just make one a permanent resident of my main board with the JDI attached underneath next to the PP2+.

Couldn't agree more about the stage volume thing - whatever nuances of tone gained with a tube amp can sure fall short of a good mix and everyone listening comfortably.

[brooksrocco]

Get two for an instant stereo rig!

[screamtone]

I'm about to do some casino gigs, and I'm thinking about doing something similar.

One question: If you don't carry an amp, where do you put your beer?

[SBRocket]

What is your signal chain, what is the pedal with the green knob?

It goes x2 wireless>Area 51 Wah>M13>Serrano Picoso Boost>FOH

The Liverpool is in the loop of the M13.

The green knob is a Catalinbread Serrano Picoso Boost. I use it for leads and it's really nice. Since it is going to the FOH, I set levels with the engineer for that boost as my lead tone and all is good. The gain stages can be a bit tricky but once you get the hang of it, it's amazing how good it sounds.

Steve

[SBRocket]

Very cool setup. Was thinking of doing the same. I like how putting the Liverpool in the M13 loop will allow you to get a stereo signal on the M13 outs, too bad the loop uses up a space for an effect on the M13 though.

It doesn't, you can insert the loop in-between any 2 fx but it does not cost you an effect. You can still get any 4 at once. I have it set up in between 2-3 and all of my time based fx are after the Liverpool. That made a huge difference in my sound. I did try it after the M13 but I did not like it as much.

Steve

[SBRocket]

I'm about to do some casino gigs, and I'm thinking about doing something similar.

One question: If you don't carry an amp, where do you put your beer?

I make my wife carry the beer... like she ought to!

(please don't tell her I said that) ;)

Steve

[DallasD]

:agree

Very nice rig - simple and flexible at the same time; I just picked up a Turbo Tuner and Serrano Picoso. I use the Picoso Boost as a single coil pickup booster to even the volume with hotter humbuckers.

[jetattblue]

How do you guys like the tuner on the M13? Would you consider doing this same setup but without an external tuner?

Also, if you wanted to do this setup at home, is there any way you could use this type of setup, but run it through headphones? I have a 3 year old daughter, so I do not get to play through an amp much at home.

[fr8_trane]

How do you guys like the tuner on the M13? Would you consider doing this same setup but without an external tuner?

Also, if you wanted to do this setup at home, is there any way you could use this type of setup, but run it through headphones? I have a 3 year old daughter, so I do not get to play through an amp much at home.

The onboard tuner is actually quite useable. I think its on par with a TU-2. I still use my turbo tuner because its more accurate, faster and easier and it acts as a kill switch. However I could definitely get by with just the M13 tuner.

[SBRocket]

How do you guys like the tuner on the M13? Would you consider doing this same setup but without an external tuner?

Also, if you wanted to do this setup at home, is there any way you could use this type of setup, but run it through headphones? I have a 3 year old daughter, so I do not get to play through an amp much at home.

Like fr8 said, the M13 tuner is good. If my eyes were better, I'd be fine with it but outdoors, with my less than young eyesight, the TT is easier to use.

I think you could use this set up into anything that amplifies for your headphones. You could get a tiny mixer and plug into that. It's really a great setup for going direct... to anything.

Steve

[musickbox]

Have you compared the liverpool to other Sansamps pedals like the blonde?

[Capn Spanky]

Is there a speaker emulator anywhere in this set up?

edit: nevermind. I presume the Liverpool has this.

[rsm]

Very cool set-up. Not big into effects here though so the M13 is overkill for me. Great to hear the Liverpool provides a good amp replacement, as I'm working on a similar option:

guitar --> AB ->

--> A = Zoom G2, for acoustic sim, and several lead tones
--> B = JangleBox (compressor) --> Tech 21 British --> Tech 21 Liverpool

both A and B go into separate channels on my Bose L1's T1 mixer.

I may get a Tech 21 Boost R.V.B. for the B signal chain above. I have a Damage Control Glass Nexus, but its too big to put on a travel board IMO. I have it connected to a small rack set-up that I use at home:

Guitar --> Tech 21 PSA 1.1 --> Glass Nexus --> Bose L1

One option I'm considering is to get a GRX4 router/switcher and put all the Tech 21 SansAmps (PSA, Liverpool, British) and Boost R.V.B into a 2U rack (I have the PSA and Furman in a 2U now), and control it via MIDI using my MIDI Mouse into the GRX4. Then all I'd have on the floor would be the AB, G2, JangleBox and MIDI mouse.

Still considering the packaging options here.

[SBRocket]

Have you compared the liverpool to other Sansamps pedals like the blonde?

No, not yet. I want to try the british and the blonde but I am happy though for now with the Liverpool.

If they work as well as the Liverpoool, that would be great.

Steve

[SBRocket]

Very cool set-up. Not big into effects here though so the M13 is overkill for me. Great to hear the Liverpool provides a good amp replacement, as I'm working on a similar option:

Guitar --> Tech 21 PSA 1.1 --> Glass Nexus --> Bose L1

Still considering the packaging options here.

I play this rig through a Bose L1 Model 2 whenever we bring our own PA to gigs. We have 2 towers for the band and it sounds really good through the Bose.

SB

[jgm]

Have you compared the liverpool to other Sansamps pedals like the blonde?

I can help with this one somewhat. I own both the Blonde and the Liverpool. The differences are a lot of what you would expect. The Blonde cops very Fendery tones and has more bottom end. It can be dialed in for a very warm clean tone that sounds great direct. The Liverpool can also do a nice clean, but has, accordingly, more Brit chime, less bottom end and gets very Brain May sounding if you start cranking the character knob past about 1:00. Both take pedals well.

Run direct, I like the blonde set for clean (think warm Twin) and the Liverpool set for light distortion. I put a Barber LTD-SR in front of both and it gets me a lot of really useable tones.

[rsm]

+1 on the Bose L1 :) Good to hear someone else likes it and uses it!

I use the Liverpool for clean jangle, and chime. I'll add the JangleBox compressor to get tone variations (e.g., I can get a tone like George Harrison on Ticket to Ride, Run for Your Life, I Feel Fine, etc. with that combination). I agree with jgm on the Liverpool. It gets too Brian May sounding for me at high Character levels. I use the British pedal to get a decent JTM45 bluesbreaker, and early plexi sound (think early Humble Pie) going for more overdrive than distortion.

Both pedals respond well to guitar volume control, and are silly easy to dial in good tones. My PSA 1.1 gives me the Fender and Mesa tones, though those aren't what am after (Vox and Marshall are what I'm after). There are a few youtoube demos, I think they may be official Tech 21, that gives you an idea of the range of sounds available.

Here is a link to the Liverpool demo vid, the others are listed on the right. While these vids may be professional, the tones I'm getting are very close.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8Qn_rNuvn8&feature=PlayList&p=FCEFA559415E306F

[SBRocket]

I think I might try a blonde in the rig. I love the AC30 sound but switching to the fender sound is juts so easy, I'd be crazy not to try it.

SB

[jaymeister]

This is exactly where I think I am going with my rig. I want to try out those tech 21 pedals

[DavidE]

So, the Liverpool is an amp simulator and not just a gain pedal? That would interest me. I currently run a wah, 2 gain pedals and an M13 into an amp. I also use an X2 wireless (the small one) but I like the tuner in the M13 just fine.

[SBRocket]

Yes the Liverpool is an amp simulator as well as a gain pedal. In fact, you can't turn off the amp sim but many use it into an amp anyway. it does add the AC30 color.

Steve

[riffboy76]

Any sound clips of it running direct within the M13?

[socalscott]

I'd like to mention Tech 21's TRI-A.C. SansAmp. In one pedal you get 3 switches that you stomp twice to save eq and amp model(Calif, Brit, Tweed). The Calif gives you Mesa and Bassman and Brit does the Marshall and Vox.
So yeah, 3 channels and Bypass.

The catch is, do not run it thru. a guitar amp. Keyboard amp or P.A. only.

[richrenken]

Hi! So here is my latest rig. I've played a few shows with it and it sounds really great. Still not as great as a cranked amp, but in the context of the band and playing a show, you would probably not know the difference. And in one way I actually like it a lot more than using an amp on stage.

I have really begun to like the stage volume of this kind of setup. Everyone gets some guitar in their monitors so I can hear myself all over the stage and there is no super loud "hot spot" where all I hear is guitar. I feel like I am hearing the mix better and consequentially playing better.

http://gallery.me.com/steveborne/100001/PBPics/web.jpg?ver=12429092450001

The Liverpool is in the loop of the M13 and the M13 is perfect for this setup because the knobs are always active. So everywhere I go I just set up and quickly tweak.

Steve

Nice with the X2 as well. :)

Did you paint that Pedaltrain blue?

[richrenken]

I'm about to do some casino gigs, and I'm thinking about doing something similar.

One question: If you don't carry an amp, where do you put your beer?

Oh man, I will submit to the company a request to add a cup holder as a running change. Great idea. :roll

[deeval]

Hey have you tried any other,s like the RP1000,I want to go similar set up,and picked up the RP1000,yesterday and just spent a couple hours with it and found it to sound pretty good and the OD,s sound very real and not digital thin,was just wandering what you thought of the RP,and the M13.
Now I need to know what I,m going to do with all my bouteek pedals,and amps??
Thanks:BEER

[Dickie Fredericks]

Great idea and a nice rig. Ive often thought about picking up the Line 6 board you have there.

What if you love the tone you get from your amp though? I just wouldnt want to leave the Deering at home.

I like the idea you've got going here though for sure. Clean and simple.

[SBRocket]

Hey have you tried any other,s like the RP1000,I want to go similar set up,and picked up the RP1000,yesterday and just spent a couple hours with it and found it to sound pretty good and the OD,s sound very real and not digital thin,was just wandering what you thought of the RP,and the M13.
Now I need to know what I,m going to do with all my bouteek pedals,and amps??
Thanks:BEER

I haven't tried the RP1000, in fact this is my first multi fx in years. I really like the live knobs.

I do like the OD's in the m13 a lot though.

Steve

[SBRocket]

Great idea and a nice rig. Ive often thought about picking up the Line 6 board you have there.

What if you love the tone you get from your amp though? I just wouldnt want to leave the Deering at home.

I like the idea you've got going here though for sure. Clean and simple.

Yeah I have a few amps I love the sound of too. It's just sooo easy to gig without one though. Less gear to carry, fast setup, and the same sound every show. The only remaining variables are really the board and the mixer which are variables no matter what.

Honestly, I really do like the feeling of playing without a really loud amp on stage. Is the sound as perfect for me as an amp? Not always but it always sounds like I programmed it to sound. So once I am happy with the tone, I am happy at pretty much every venue.

If I had roadies and everything set up for me, I'd do it but I'd probably want to take 4 or 5 amps out and park them backstage.

Steve

[SBRocket]

Nice with the X2 as well. :)

Did you paint that Pedaltrain blue?

I love the x2. I wish it were built into the M13, but I know that won't happen. :(

I did paint the Pedaltrain. It was easy.

Steve

[ggardner21]

I just got the liverpool to go with my m13 and I love it. I love it so much I might not even use the drives on the m13.

[Eric Pykala]

With Line 6's acquisition of X2, woudn't it be cool if the M13 had the wireless built in...calling Rich Renken to the white courtesy phone...

[SBRocket]

With Line 6's acquisition of X2, woudn't it be cool if the M13 had the wireless built in...calling Rich Renken to the white courtesy phone...

Yeah I asked about that once before and Rich said no way... in a nice way.

Rich, now you have 2 confirmed buyers, does that improve the chances?

How about just a plug in x2 wireless board and an upgrade slot in the "M13 mkII Pro Touring Edition"

Steve

[richrenken]

Yeah I asked about that once before and Rich said no way... in a nice way.

Rich, now you have 2 confirmed buyers, does that improve the chances?

How about just a plug in x2 wireless board and an upgrade slot in the "M13 mkII Pro Touring Edition"

Steve

No in the current M13 but as I told you we have big plans for digital wireless. :)

[DaveNJ]

Steve, I'm just curious as I haven't picked up my mixer yet (looking for a good quality, small one) - do you need to run the output from the M13 into a DI box before going into the board? If not, do you need to change the settings on the PA's input for that channel?

Thanks, Dave

[SBRocket]

I only use a DI when there is a long run from the stage to the board, otherwise it's just a line level input to the board.

I asked Tech 21 the same question and that's what they said to do and it works great.

Steve

[DaveNJ]

Awesome, thanks for the quick response, Steve..

[shawnshack]

Steve,
looks like you've been doing this set-up for a few months. Still going well? I have a Blonde and a Liverpool on the way. I can't wait to try them with my pedal board. I'm going to try a number of things: 1. after the board (like I currently run my amp...I'll try each completely clean and with a little grit), 2. before delays and maybe modulations (once again, clean, with grit, and then like a cranked amp, 3. using drive pedals only as a boost into the amp sims. I also want to try a British. I don't know if I will keep both (or all three if I get the British), but I want to experiment. The thought of having three "amps" to choose from at the push of a button along with several effects...oh my!!! I tried the whole POD thing, that didn't last long.

[frankencat]

I have been running my M13 into a Tech21 Trademark 60 direct to the house for my church rig. I lead worship in a 500+ member church and I use IEM's and it sounds better than my old mic'd up tube amp rig. I have been exploring some out of the box sounds and using the looper quite a bit as well and it's been a blast! :)

[SBRocket]

Shawnshack,

It's a great rig and I've had great success with it. In fact in about 20 gigs, I only wished for an amp once. If the sound mix is bad, then it's a bit of a challenge and I had that happen 2 weeks ago. The mixer spent the entire set eating pizza.

The real benefits are super fast set ups, great stage levels and no amp and cab to lug around. It could take a little getting used to though if you're used to high stage volumes and like that.

As I've said before, I've been able to dial it in so it sounds as good as most amps ever sound in a live rig and I think it really serves the band and the songs better than most rigs.

Steve

[richrenken]

The mixer spent the entire set eating pizza.


Oh man, what is up with that. Mix guys who don't pay attention are lame.

It would be like being in the band and trying to eat pizza and play your instrument. When I mix I am amazed when people come up and try to talk to you. HELLO... A good sound guy is truly a member of the band. He should be trained, he should be good at what he does, and he should be engaged the whole set.

[SBRocket]

Yeah it was pretty awful. He was a total poser. He sure looked cool in his fedora though. :barf

Seriously, we had an awful monitor mix and whenever we asked for anything, he wouldn't do it and the few times he tried, he was trying to work without putting down his food. And we got a sound check! He just ignored everything we asked for.

I can't wait until we get invited back to that venue...

Steve

[shawnshack]

Stage volume isn't something I need. We use in ear monitors, but I can use amps. I currently run what's in my sig. I thought I wanted to go direct, but thought that it might be nice to use a small cab (a powered 1x12 or a cab + a power amp) and mic it. That way if I play at home or somewhere else I can work on my tone and it be the same anywhere I go (with the exception of a bad mix due to a pizza eating sound man :) )

any thoughts on that?

[SBRocket]

Sure. I do that with my PT system at the studio and with a single powered monitor when I go play somewhere where I think there won't be an adequate PA.

I tried the 8" FBT verve 8ma when I had the Axe-FX but It was a bit too small in sound for me. Lots of Axe-FX users love them though so it could be an option for you.

I now set up with a Mackie SRM 350 or a Bose L1 to tweak when I am not in the studio, but I also imagine headphone from a small mixer would do the trick too.

The nice thing about the rig is the live knobs, so all I have to do is get it "close" and when I get to the gig, I can dial it in super fast.

Steve

[shawnshack]

Steve, another question. You had the axe, how was it in comparisson to the tech pedals?

[shawnshack]

Obviously, I mean the amps on the axe

[SBRocket]

The Axe is awesome. The AC30 sim is awesome. I never did a head to head AC30 to AC30 comparison though. Ultimately, for me it came down to the knobs thing.

This rig is totally tweakable on the fly. I was a bit nervous about not being able to adjust anything easily from the front panel of the Axe. Although if I had a bit more time I'm sure I could have gotten the sounds to the point where that wouldn't have mattered. I just don't think I have the time right now.

If the Axe had 6 knobs on the front, that would soft switch to controlling whatever block was active, it would have been perfect for me.

Interestingly, the new Digi Eleven rack does. I really want to try one on those soon. My problem with that is that it does not have a pitch shifter (although I hope they add one). I'm sure the DSP is there to do it.

Which bring me back to why i tried the Axe when I was happy with the rig above. I wanted more amps and a pitch shifter. Supposedly the next update of the m13 will add that so it may trump the Eleven rack in the pitch shifter area but I do record a lot with the Eleven plug-in and if the amps are the same, then that would be great for me.

It's a constant thing...

Steve

[shawnshack]

thnx steve. You own or have owned the couple rigs i've been most interested in lately. I like my current gear, but I love the thought of experimenting. I thought about using the axe with a power amp and speaker combo. Then I realized how pricey that was going to get. That's when I moved toward the character series. If I like it I'm most likely going to grab an M13 (M9 sounds ok, but no effects loop...I would like the flexibility of putting some mods before drives and the the delays last...).

I know you didn't do an actual comparison, but from memory are they close tonally?

[SBRocket]

Shawn,

I think that both the Axe and the Liverpool are capable of doing a really good clone of the AC30's I've played. They both really do sound great. They also both can get into fizziness if pushed the wrong way.

Both do AC30's well.

Steve

[jchan]

This rig is totally tweakable on the fly. I was a bit nervous about not being able to adjust anything easily from the front panel of the Axe.

Can't you quickly tweak the Axe using the global parameters?

[SBRocket]

Can't you quickly tweak the Axe using the global parameters?

Yes you can. The global EQ and reverb are a good start, but it's still a few buttons and a scroll wheel to adjust those parameters. You could not do it during a song for example.

And considering the number of amp models and how different they all sound, I'm not sure that the changes I make in global eq for an AC30 would be effective for a jcm800.

What about another guitar? If I change guitars in the middle of a song because I broke a string, should I need to change patches or can I just turn the mids down? As I said I love the sound and power of the Axe, but if it could just have a 5 knob controller, even if it took up a rack space it would be perfect for me.

But don't get me wrong, I know the Axe could work for me, and I know some great guitarists are using it without that and getting great results.

I just want some basic live knobs like the ones on the Liverpool and the m13. In fact, I think most Axe owners who use the unit live would buy such a "knob rack" if one were available.

Maybe I'm just too paranoid about giving up all control at the venue. I am the guitarist, band leader, producer, roadie, and financier and it's a ton of work in addition to my day job. Sometimes I think I should just shut up and play... ;)

Steve

[guitar_pic]

Hi everyone! I have been using the M13 out to a pocket pod, but I recently got a Sansamp Liverpool.

Can I go from Guitar - M13 - Liverpool - PA? Or do I need to set it up in the loop? If so, how do I do that? Can someone tell me how many cables are needed? What cable plugs to where?

Thanks!

[riffboy76]

I'd definitely put it in the loop, thats where i have mine. That way you can place your time based effects, delay, mod etc after the amp sim. And have your overdrives, comps, wah at the front. Also it lets you send a stereo mix out. I usually set my Liverpool in the post FX2, and run a comp/or boost comp-overdrive-M13-delay-verb.

[guitar_pic]

I'd definitely put it in the loop, thats where i have mine. That way you can place your time based effects, delay, mod etc after the amp sim. And have your overdrives, comps, wah at the front. Also it lets you send a stereo mix out. I usually set my Liverpool in the post FX2, and run a comp/or boost comp-overdrive-M13-delay-verb.


Hmm......when you say a stereo mix out, does that mean I can have 2 delay settings, and specify what delay goes to L & R?

[almogaver]

Hmm......when you say a stereo mix out, does that mean I can have 2 delay settings, and specify what delay goes to L & R?

I know you weren't asking me, but I guess he means that putting the Liverpool in the loop lets you use both M13 outputs, whereas if you place it after the M13 you 'only' have one mono output (the Liverpool output).

PS: AFAIK, routing an effect to one output while routing another effect to the other output is not possible.

[riffboy76]

Yep thats what i meant. Although u might be able to something with the stereo delay. If you ran 2 at the end, as you can set each left and right independantly. I havent tried, just a thought.

[cjs42079]

I recently tried running the L Out into a Blonde and the R Out into a British and totally fell in love with it. They weren't in the FX loop of course, but the blend of 2 different amps was great....I had the Blonde set clean and the British with some slight crunch, kinda like a Dean DeLeo type approach

[gproud5150]

I recently tried running the L Out into a Blonde and the R Out into a British and totally fell in love with it. They weren't in the FX loop of course, but the blend of 2 different amps was great....I had the Blonde set clean and the British with some slight crunch, kinda like a Dean DeLeo type approach

Damn! That sounds like a great idea...

[almogaver]

However, placing the Sansamps after the M13 means that all the effects (including modulation, delays and reverbs) will be before the "amp".

On the other hand, if you want to take advantage of the M13 loop and place both Sansamps in it, you should use only true stereo effects after the loop (otherwise both "amp" signals will be summed into one mono signal).
Here's a list of effects does NOT seem to work running stereo through two amps, though AFAIK it has not been confirmed officially:
http://line6.com/community/thread/19890

[cjs42079]

However, placing the Sansamps after the M13 means that all the effects (including modulation, delays and reverbs) will be before the "amp".


Yup...but it sounds damn good to me. :dude

[jgm]

I recently tried running the L Out into a Blonde and the R Out into a British and totally fell in love with it. They weren't in the FX loop of course, but the blend of 2 different amps was great....I had the Blonde set clean and the British with some slight crunch, kinda like a Dean DeLeo type approach

Thought I was the only one doing this! I run this board with the blonde direct and the second out on the M9 to either a tube amp or to a Liverpool and it sounds great. I set the Blonde clean and the Liverpool a little clipped - sound just like what you're doing. Very 3D.

I use the Blonde as a clean boost when I go into a tube amp - works stellar.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p215/teledad/IMG_1023.jpg

[VicLabs]

Very interesting. I've been playing through mic'ed vox-flavored Top Hat at church lately. I just ordered an M13 to replace my board (besides my Timmy, never giving that up). Now I'm curious about getting a liverpool. I was wondering how the combo of sending an output to the live amp (mic'ed) and another output to a liverpool>FOH would sound (especially panned stereo on the FOH mixer). I keep my top hat at below breaking up anyway, and get all my drive from the timmy, I'd setup the liverpool clean the same way. Has anyone tried the mic'ed amp/liverpool combo?

[stilwel]

^^^ I think that would be a great combination. The Liverpool is extremely versatile, and the controls are way sensitive. I'm sure you could get a either a similar tone or one that is complementary to the Top Hat. Plus you'd have a direct backup solution in case your TH went down.

[stilwel]

Thought I was the only one doing this! I run this board with the blonde direct and the second out on the M9 to either a tube amp or to a Liverpool and it sounds great. I set the Blonde clean and the Liverpool a little clipped - sound just like what you're doing. Very 3D.

I use the Blonde as a clean boost when I go into a tube amp - works stellar.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p215/teledad/IMG_1023.jpg


Hey, can you flip that board over and take a shot of the bottom for us?

[jgm]

Sure. A Godlyke power supply for the analog pedals, and the Line 6 supply for the M9. It would be nice to have something a little cleaner but I haven't found a DC/AC combined power supply yet and I OWN this stuff. I have two unused leads for the Godlyke that I can use to power up a second Tech 21 for the stereo thing. The Velcro wraps on the power cords are stuck up against the male Velcro on the bottom of the pedals.

As for the signal path - Clyde > Jetter > mono in on M9 > mono out on M9 into Blonde (cables are routed around the side of the M9 and on top of the board, held down with Velcro ties).

When I want to run the amp/direct combo thing I use a Radial JDI; gives me a ground lift, another level of speaker sim, a pad and an XLR out so I can take care of a lot of problems at my feet. If I start using the two Tech 21 thing more, I'll probably pick up an second JDI. Very useful little box.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p215/teledad/IMG_1029.jpg

[stilwel]

Cool! I was curious what p/s you were using. I assumed it was a Pedal Power, but that's clearly not the case.

Thanks.

Your board has inspired me!
I think I'm gonna pick up a Pedaltrain Jr (or the smaller trailer trash board) and put together a smallish board similar to this.

Korg Pitch Black tuner
Line 6 M9
Tech21 Liverpool
Exp pedal (either Line6 or Boss FV500)
Pedal Power 2+ mounted underneath

[jgm]

Sounds great, just keep in mind the PP2+ WON'T power the M9. I had a PP2+, really liked it, but sold it for this reason. Rich posted on this awhile back.

BTW - I orignally had a Pitchblack on the board. Much to my surprise I found the tuner on the M9 faster, although outoors it would be a pain to see. So, one less place to lose signal. I always worry about backing up "all in one" kind of stuff, so I keep a Planet Waves headstock tuner in my cord bag.

[stilwel]

Yeah, I know. I'll plug the M9's p/s into the courtesy outlet on the PP2+.

The only reason I'll even have the Pitchblack on there is because I have one, and I'll have space for it. I also like being able to just hit one switch and instantly mute.

[jgm]

For me it was math. As much as a like the PP2+, having that much power supply to run three pedals didn't make a lot of sense for me. The Godlyke so far has worked great - no noise issues etc. If Voodoo comes up with a power supply that does both AC and DC (which I thought I'd heard rumors about) I'd go that route in a second and get rid of the yard sale under my board.

[stilwel]

Does your M9 or the cables hang out over the back of the PT-Jr?

[jgm]

No, I have it down from the back edge far enough that everything is within the edge of the pedaltrain. I made two risers out of 1/4" X 1 1/4" oak, 10" long wrapped in velcro - male on one side, female on the other. These sit under the M9, parallel to the Jr's rails, and let me tuck the cables under the M9 a bit. Everything is pretty clean and I can hit the switches on the M9 without hitting my other pedals.

BTW - I just called Voodoo. They will have the Versa in production in a few months. Since it has two transformers, it's a fair bit bigger than the PP2+ and won't fit under the Pedaltrains. They are now going into production on the 5 outlet mini power supply which will fit under the Pedaltrains but doesn't have a courtesy outlet. :bkw I give.

[nodata2000]

I found even the Pitchblack hard (almost impossible) to see on sunny outdoor gigs....I wonder how the Turbo Tuner fares in the sun...hmm....


Sounds great, just keep in mind the PP2+ WON'T power the M9. I had a PP2+, really liked it, but sold it for this reason. Rich posted on this awhile back.

BTW - I orignally had a Pitchblack on the board. Much to my surprise I found the tuner on the M9 faster, although outoors it would be a pain to see. So, one less place to lose signal. I always worry about backing up "all in one" kind of stuff, so I keep a Planet Waves headstock tuner in my cord bag.

[Thepilot]

JGM- i've been lusting after that board everytime i see you post it- beautiful- clean, tight, and extremely versatile rig.

I've got a simlar setup minus the M13- a liverpool, and a blonde (on the way) on a board with a jetdrive. i run other individual effects for 'verb and delay, etc.- i purely play direct now.

All that to say- nice concept and execution on that board!

[jgm]

JGM- i've been lusting after that board everytime i see you post it- beautiful- clean, tight, and extremely versatile rig.

I've got a simlar setup minus the M13- a liverpool, and a blonde (on the way) on a board with a jetdrive. i run other individual effects for 'verb and delay, etc.- i purely play direct now.

All that to say- nice concept and execution on that board!

Thanks man, I appreciate it. This thing really gets the job done for sure.

I swap out the Blonde for a Liverpool once in awhile, even better is running both - Blonde clean, Liverpool slightly clipped and chimey, each to it's own channel on the board. Sounds huge and a beautiful clean tone. I'm still using tube amps, but it's getting harder and harder to justify in a lot of settings.

[suckamc]

Very cool setup. I did it more than a few times. But now the 11R has replaced the Liverpool and the M13 can tell it when to change presets (but that's about all it can tell it). With an M13 and an 11R you can have 12 sounds ready to go at the push of one button.

[SouthernShred]

man, great thread...I think I'm going to pick up some Tech 21 pedals for a multi "amp" rig...

[rsm]

I'd forgotten about this thread (thanks Stilwel).

I sold my British, but still have my Liverpool. I'm thinking M9 (need to do more research and investigation) for the Liverpool and maybe small pedalboard grab and go option for in front of the amp (no loop in my amp).

How does the M9 do in front of a clean amp?

[mcknigs]

Sort of a change of subject but - Most recent gigs find me fronting a band with an acoustic. I have an acoustic pedal board w/ preamp - tuner - boost - DI. When I got my Liverpool I took it to an electric guitar gig. I took along my acoustic pedal board, rather than my electric pedal board, because it was better set up for going into a PA. Flash forward to the next acoustic gig and I still have the Liverpool on the board. Throughout the night I occasionally used it to get electric guitar sounds for those songs I'd rather be playing electric on. The Liverpool did a better job of making my acoustic sound like an electric than anything else I've tried in the past (e.g., running it through an overdrive).

Some to think about for anyone in a similar situation.

-Scott

[hading]

I use something similar to a lot of people in this thread for my small church gig. I use a pedal board with a Liverpool and Sansamp Classic in the middle of the chain (in series).

The Liverpool is the main sound that I use, set up to be clean with my neck pickup and crunch a bit with the bridge, with an overdrive in front if I need more.

The Classic is for occasional use and set up as needed for the week, whether for a different flavor clean, a heavier sort of distortion, a singing lead, or whatever else.

The whole thing just goes direct into the mains and monitors and it has worked quite well. In our context we have quite a short time to get things set up and ready and it really is good for that as well - cable to guitar, cable to direct box, done.

[stilwel]

M9 sounds great (if not ideal) in front of a clean(ish) amp. I think this is actually the best use for it since there isn't an fx loop. If you plan on using the dist/od/fuzz options it is best suited for in front of a clean amp.

[corndog87]

i have a pod x3 live, but am considering selling/trading that for an m13 and a liverpool or blonde, i like the x3 live a lot, but the m13 just has more features and flexibility effects wise that it makes it very tempting to do so, i only use one or two of the amp models on the x3 anyway, so i figure just using one of the tech21s won't really have much effect on my sound quality

[tripp2k]

M9 sounds great (if not ideal) in front of a clean(ish) amp. I think this is actually the best use for it since there isn't an fx loop. If you plan on using the dist/od/fuzz options it is best suited for in front of a clean amp.

Quick question: I've seen references regarding the M13 where you can insert one of these character pedals such that drives are before amp and time based effects are after. Will the M9 do this as well?

[DrSax]

i'm a dinosaur, can someone tell me if I have this right:

The M13 for all your sounds (OD, delay, chorus etc.) goes into the Sansamp (which is the "amp" emulator) goes into the board? How is the Sansamp set?

I'm intrigued about an ampless setup, and already have a Sansamp Classic. Thanks.

[mmcm4]

i'm a dinosaur, can someone tell me if I have this right:

The M13 for all your sounds (OD, delay, chorus etc.) goes into the Sansamp (which is the "amp" emulator) goes into the board? How is the Sansamp set?

I'm intrigued about an ampless setup, and already have a Sansamp Classic. Thanks.

yes, that will work fine. but you probably want to put the Sansamp in the m13's loop so that delays and stuff will be distorted. that way you go something like:

m13 distortions>Sansamp Distortion>m13 Eq>m13 Delay>m13 reverb>Direct Box

[VicLabs]

Yeah, but if you're using the overdrive models on the M13, you don't need the sansamp to be set to overdrive levels, unless it is a particularly better sounding OD. Putting delay "in front" of an amp/sansamp only sounds bad if you are using a lot of overdrive from the amp/sansamp.

[Melodic Dreamer]

Yeah, but if you're using the overdrive models on the M13, you don't need the sansamp to be set to overdrive levels, unless it is a particularly better sounding OD. Putting delay "in front" of an amp/sansamp only sounds bad if you are using a lot of overdrive from the amp/sansamp.

That is how I would understand it. If you were to use the Liverpool set clean would you need it in the M13's loop?

[harrlj]

Quick question: I've seen references regarding the M13 where you can insert one of these character pedals such that drives are before amp and time based effects are after. Will the M9 do this as well?

The M9 doesn't have an effects loop, so you couldn't do that with it.

[DaveNJ]

Steve, here's a few quick questions for you:

Is there any trick to managing gain levels? I have a similar setup (liverpool and m13 into a PA) and it seems that the Level setting on the Liverpool needs to be set relatively low or you tend to get some farting out on lower notes - like around 9 o'clock - does that sound right to you? Is there a trick to getting that set at unity?

The second question is - do you generally use a direct box, or only when you have longer cable runs?

Thanks!

[SBRocket]

Dave,

I tweak the output gain of the rig to get me to peak at about -6 on the faders. I definitely don't want to clip the inputs of the console. The Liverpool has a fair amount of compression built into the volume knob after 12 o'clock so I try to stay below that.

I only use a direct box when the cable runs require it otherwise it's just straight into the board.

Steve

[banjoze]

All this great info and no clips?

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! !

:)

[SBRocket]

All this great info and no clips?

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! !

:)

Clips?!? I have a better idea come see us live when we play the Moore Theater on February 27th, 2010!

Steve

[DaveNJ]

Steve, sorry, I missed your reply earlier - the peak at -6 is the loudest you'd be - so, basically when you have the drive and boost engaged?

Dave,

I tweak the output gain of the rig to get me to peak at about -6 on the faders. I definitely don't want to clip the inputs of the console. The Liverpool has a fair amount of compression built into the volume knob after 12 o'clock so I try to stay below that.

I only use a direct box when the cable runs require it otherwise it's just straight into the board.

Steve