Man, have I said how much I hate Floyd Rose trems lately?!

[mslugano]

In the thirty plus years I have been playing, I have owned pretty much every kind of guitar made...certainly not every builder but pretty much every type. I owned a number of Floyd equipped guitars in the 80's and 90's and loved the dive bomb effect but the hassle never made it worthwhile.

Anyway, I have recently "re-found" an almost twenty year old Schecter custom shop guitar. It really plays amazing (though the neck is a little thin for my tastes now) and sounds incredibly good. HOWEVER, it has a Floyd trem.

So I decided to set it up again a start playing it again. I polished and re-crowned the frets, added an expensive brass trem block, had to buy and replace a few of the blocks that hold the strings in place and reintonated it. Everything but the reintonating was a breeze but I got it done.

Now, a couple weeks later, I decided to play it but it was out of tune a little and the bridge needed to be raised a tad. So I fumbled around trying to find the right allen wrenches (always a pain in the ass...I know I could drill screws in the headstock and mount a holder but I don't like the drilling bit) and tried to loosed the string retainers at the neck. They were kinda stuck and my allen wrenches did not fit perfect so the retainers ended up getting rounded off a little and I scraped my knuckles on the pointy bits of the steel nut.

Then I adjusted the bridge height and had to retune the damn thing. You Floyd guys know what a pain it is to retune after the strings are all slacked a little. Then, after about 30 minutes of retuning it, I had to deal with the nut string retainers again and then, of course, the strings are out of tune again and I have to fine tune it (AGAIN!!).

OK, it plays well but I put it right back in its case because I can't be bothered to go thru this crap every time I want to play it. Too bad, really, it is otherwise a very good guitar.

I HATE FLOYD ROSE TREMS!!

[eddie101]

I hate them with passion. I rarely do dive bombs but when/if I do, I'd rather take my chances with either Fender or PRS trem. Don't break no strings though then all bets are off.

[Zero]

It's true, you need some patience to work with them. Some people are better suited to hard bridges. However, have you considered blocking it for dive-only? It really takes much of hassle you described away. Tuning is a snap, you can get by if a string breaks.

I only have one live guitar that is fully floating Floyd Rose & it can push my buttons. Couple gigs ago I was tuning mid-set and could't dial it in quick enough and had to go to my back-up.

Last night I installed a TS-1 "Tremolo Stabiliser" in this Ibanez I have. It's odd in that it gives the trem a zero set point to return to - like a dive-only block - yet you CAN also pull up on it. Interesting unit.

[mslugano]

It's true, you need some patience to work with them. Some people are better suited to hard bridges. However, have you considered blocking it for dive-only? It really takes much of hassle you described away. Tuning is a snap, you can get by if a string breaks.

I only have one live guitar that is fully floating Floyd Rose & it can push my buttons. Couple gigs ago I was tuning mid-set and could't dial it in quick enough and had to go to my back-up.

Last night I installed a TS-1 "Tremolo Stabiliser" in this Ibanez I have. It's odd in that it gives the trem a zero set point to return to - like a dive-only block - yet you CAN also pull up on it. Interesting unit.

Yea, I tried dive only for awhile too, but, I am not a dive bomber and I use it for more subtle effects where I really need to movement both ways. There's no way I would ever consider gigging with a Floyd unless I had a Callaham/Fender/Gotoh/Wilkinson as a back up and then I would have to really wonder why I should mess with it in the first place when the non-Floyds work so darn well.

[Eagle1]

A well set up Floyd is the only style of trem that can perform 100% all the time.
"IF"it is well maintained and set up correctly .
Nothing else performs this well ,the real question is do you need one to play your stuff?

[xntrick]

A well set up Floyd is the only style of trem that can perform 100% all the time.
"IF"it is well maintained and set up correctly .
Nothing else performs this well ,the real question is do you need one to play your stuff?


the washburn wonderbar trem is a far better than a floyd but it never caught on and they stopped making it...

[eddie101]

I always wondered that as well....

[Eagle1]

the washburn wonderbar trem is a far better than a floyd but it never caught on and they stopped making it...
You have got to be kidding.
It is a tone robbing over engineered pile of zinc.

[xntrick]

i've played both trems and the FR wasn't exactly a sonic masterpiece...

[Eagle1]

i've played both trems and the FR wasn't exactly a sonic masterpiece...
The FR design works and sounds good .NO rollers, low part count ,strings clamped to saddle and a lock nut that works.
You must use a good version and maintain it well.

[xntrick]

i hated the locking nut, PRS got it right with locking tuners and a graphite nut which is what i currently use on my frakenstrat

[GAD]

Takes me all of five minutes to tune up my FR. I honestly don't know what all of the fuss is about.

Is it more complicated than a normal bridge? Yup.
Does it suck if you can't find the Allen wrenches? Yup.

As the OP said, there are easy ways around the allen wrench issue. I just keep a set in my case, and put them back in the case when I'm done.

Tuning just takes a bit more time than a normal bridge, but 1/2 hour? That's excessive. With a peg winder and a tuner it's not a big deal to me.

GAD

[TwoTubMan]

Hate them? No, but I wouldn't own one, ever.

Being assaulted by an endless line of talentless one trick ponies flailing away on them? Oh yes. I hate.

[JZWest]

Hate them? No, but I wouldn't own one, ever.

Being assaulted by an endless line of talentless one trick ponies flailing away on them? Oh yes. I hate.

well said.

i would only add that i cannot stand how they sound. being so dominate in terms of massive klunkyness, they rob all the complexities in tone that the wood of the body has to offer

[Mike Dresch]

well said.

i would only add that i cannot stand how they sound. being so dominate in terms of massive klunkyness, they rob all the complexities in tone that the wood of the body has to offer

Let me guess, you're a vintage strat bridge guy? IMHO, strat bridges impart more color to the tone than a Floyd. It is this color that some people like and others, like myself, don't care for. Since that color isn't there with a Floyd, some people think they suck the tone out of the guitar.

I would say that a Floyd is very neutral sounding bridge. Just ask John Suhr. I have owned a lot of guitars with (and without) Floyds. The best sounding Floyds were the Floyd originals and the newer Gotoh Floyds. Most everything else (i.e. TRS copies) is garbage.

[Flinto2002]

If it's that hard for you to set the thing up, I submit the problem is most likely operator error, or a poorly set up unit (dull knife edges, etc..)

The fact that you're rounding off your allen bolts by using the wrong sized keys.... I mean, is that the Floyd's fault that you don't know the difference between metric and SAE?

Floyds stay in tune better than Fender bridges, better than PRS, better than even a fixed bridge. If yours doesn't, you're doing something wrong.

[Nergalled]

Floyds are great if they are set up right, and high quality. I love the Schaller stuff. I have a 1 hum with a non recessed Floyd that sits flat against the body and has resonance and acoustic qualities you would not believe. I have several types of tremolos, and use the Floyds live with a Tremel-no. Have had little problems with them, and have travelled all over the country with them night after night. You need a tech to set it up right if you are having problems.

[scottywompas]

Ok, so the guitar has been sitting for years, you don't have the right tools and that makes Floyds shitty. F that man. I've used floyd equipped guitars almost all my life and I've done string changes at a gig between songs and not had a problem.

Go ahead and send that Schecter my way so you don't get frustrated anymore.

Scott

[mslugano]

Eagle1, I think you are completely right. If you are willing to commit to always having to spend the time on it, a well set up Floyd works great. As you suggest, though, I don't need it for my style of music and the extra time it takes to set up vs a Fender/Gotoh/Wilkinson isn't worth it.

GAD, yea, I agree I could the do a better job of keeping a good set of wrenches handy but, for me, that's just more effort than I want to make every time I do a string change. Thirty minutes might be a little much but not terribly exagerated when you consider loosening the nut, each string retainer at the bridge (no, I don't do them all at the same time), cutting the ball ends, inserting, tightening (six times), tuning, tighening the nut, fine tuning.

Flinto2002 and Scott, you seem to just want to pick a fight by insulting me. Having lived throughout the US and EU and Middle East, I know all too well the difference between metric and SAE and use them every day of my life...I could use some new nut string retainer bolts though. I am an accomplished tech on all aspects of a guitar and this Schecter (like all my guitars) is constantly maintained perfectly. I assure you it is not pilot error. You are obviously Floyd lovers so you didn't take the time to understand my thread...yours was a knee-jerk reaction to someone, in your view, dissing your beloved Floyd. To be clear, I think they work great and I don't even hate the tone. I just hate the significant extra hassle of cutting ball ends, allen wrenches at nut and bridge, fine tuning, impossibility of replacing a string in a gig (I do not believe for an instant that you can change a string mid-gig in five minutes, unless MAYBE you block your trem and that technique does not work for me...removes the subtle trem technique), etc.

If you're still doing 80's dive bombs then a Floyd is the way to go, I guess. But you really ought to try modern trems by Gotoh and/or Wilkinson. With locking tuners and graphite nuts (or nut sauce) they take a LOT of abuse before tuning becomes an issue and they are considerably less hassle than a Floyd.

Floyds, Kahler and Wonderbar (I still own one, by the way) were invented when Fender trems were about all you could get and guys wanted to do dive bombs (and I loved dive bombs so I owned many guitars with Floyds back then). Kahler and Wonderbar came along because Floyds ARE a hassle but Floyds survived because they work better than Kahler and Wonderbar, despite the extra work. Now, however, there are much better alternatives to Fender trems (and Floyd trems, in my view) and of course there are locking tuners and better slippery nuts.

So, I will still hate them (until hair bands are back in vogue) and you will still love them. I know John Suhr sells a ton of them on his Moderns and I love Suhrs but I would NEVER, EVER buy even a Suhr with a Floyd...they are a pain in the ass.

[JDouglee]

If you're still doing 80's dive bombs then a Floyd is the way to go, I guess.
Well I'm not, for me a Floyd is a life saver if I'm playing a gig with a tight
setlist and no time for tuning touch ups. I can just play and not worry about
it. There may be a couple extra steps in stringing, but I stretch the strings
in pairs (time saver) so it's no big deal (to me anyway). ;)

[Ken Ho]

Having read both the OP and your reply, you clearly stated that "the Allen wrenches did not fit and rounded off the bolts", so operator error it is. An original FR is fitted with high tensile steel bolts too, so not easy to destroy.
I've had a FR guitar for 3 years with no hassles, ans added another a year ago, I liked it so much. One is in E, the other in Eb. Tuning is so solid, I check it once a week, whether it needs it or not.
Changed both sets of strings on the weekend, took less than an hour, and once stretched out and locked down, I've needed to make the most minute adjustments only.
The trick to tuning a Floyd is to drop the E string to about C, tune the other 5 strings down as they will now be sharp, then bring the E up to tension. You might need to tweak a few strings up a smidge, but not much. Saves that tail chasing up and down across the point of balance between string and spring tension.

[mikem]

There are some examples of Floyds that are more of a pain to work with than others. However, a reasonable one can be set up and in tune in no time. There is a bit of a knack to it- you need to tune all the strings up to where they are in the ballpark- as soon as you tune one up to pitch, the rest go out, so you have to quickly compensate by tuning everything up without really concentrating on the pitch until you know you can do it and still be in the ballpark with the other strings- sounds more complex than it is- with enough practice, you get to be pretty good at it after awhile. They simply don't act like fixed bridges. A Floyd with worn knife edges can be a real PITA- they simply won't stay in tune. They take considerably more effort to set up than a fixed bridge, so be prepared.

Mike

[bunny]

Having to adjust FRs more than often, I bought 3 "keys" (primitive as a can opener) for 3 different FR types. These keys do help to adjust intonation faster and with less pain, but it's still a pain! Besides, you have too many slight variations in design, those lisenced models, various years and so.
Tremo-no helps also, if installed, but it seems that FR, no matter which type/make, will always be a repairman and technician's nightmare.
MM Axis is one of few guitars with FR you can adjust easier because it has no routing under the bridge so it only works "down":-)))

[lannyhall]

I only have one guitar with a Floyd Rose, but it is my #1 (a Suhr Standard, SN 426)). It has amazed me that I can play that guitar without tuning it at all for a week or two at a time, and then only make small adjustments. I bought the guitar used 10 years ago and it has been the guitar I grab most since then.


http://www.lannyhall.com/media/images/suhr_body.jpg



The FR does have its down sides (bending notes on one string and while fretting a different string requires you to bend the other sting up to pitch before hitting it - a bit like Jeff Beck), but it offers amazing tuning stability and smooth vibrato - up and down.


.

[explorer76]

I currently have a USA Jackson with a Floyd. It does stay in tune really well and it is an awesome guitar overall. But IMO the maintenance on the FR tends to outweigh the gains. I don't use enough whammy bar stunts to warrant the need for a FR. I play my Explorer and other hard tail guitars way more often.

I'm guessing this will probably cause a ruckus but, I've always tended to prefer the Kahler trem over the FR trem. I like the feel of them better. Also the strings stay level when working the Kahler bar unlike the FR. On my Jackson for example, the action is really low so if I pull up too high on the bar, I risk fretting out. One nice feature on all the Kahlers I ever used was that they had a screw on the side you could tighten down and render the bar fixed. Another nice thing is that they require way less routing of the body. People seemed to always complain that they lost sustain but I've never found that to be true. The trick seemed to be to recess them deep and jack up the saddles.

[Husky]

I


Then I adjusted the bridge height and had to retune the damn thing. You Floyd guys know what a pain it is to retune after the strings are all slacked a little. Then, after about 30 minutes of retuning it, I had to deal with the nut string retainers again and then, of course, the strings are out of tune again and I have to fine tune it (AGAIN!!).

OK, it plays well but I put it right back in its case because I can't be bothered to go thru this crap every time I want to play it. Too bad, really, it is otherwise a very good guitar.

I HATE FLOYD ROSE TREMS!!

There are many tricks to a Floyd and tuning them up very quickly.
Not for the mechanically challenged but I can change strings on a Floyd and give it back to you in 5 Minutes and it will stay in tune for a Complete set at least with no adjustments whatsoever to the fine tuning..

[Husky]

You have got to be kidding.
It is a tone robbing over engineered pile of zinc.
Agreed !

[Husky]

well said.

i would only add that i cannot stand how they sound. being so dominate in terms of massive klunkyness, they rob all the complexities in tone that the wood of the body has to offer

They are not all created equal. The Gotoh 1996 sounds great, A Floyd Original wil only suck tone when it has issues. All the issue can be tightened up.

Knofler used the Floyd on his Pensa-Suhr locked down just so he wouldn't have to tune the guitar all night. It isnt all about dive bombs. It is a mazing how many people dont understand the mechanics of a standard trem and it's pitfalls. Those that understand it can work with it. Personally I find Floyds easier to deal with when it comes to no customer complaints. As said here before though, they must be maintained.

[buddastrat]

I used to use them. Knew the tricks like how to overtune each string to compensate for tension so you could tune up quicker on a floating Floyd. Besides the PIA with wrenches and extra steps, I always hated intonating a Floyd, compared to most any other guitar. Plus my sweat would always rust out those allen heads and the string blocks that clamp the string, on the bridge and they'd strip or crumble. I went through so many of those pieces. That was on original Floyds.

I always loved the guys that can do the crazy stuff with a regular trem (like early VH, Thoms Blug, Doug Aldrich), playing live without the net. If you take the time and learn the tricks, you don't need those braces on your guitar.

[JZWest]

They are not all created equal. The Gotoh 1996 sounds great, A Floyd Original wil only suck tone when it has issues. All the issue can be tightened up.

Knofler used the Floyd on his Pensa-Suhr locked down just so he wouldn't have to tune the guitar all night. It isnt all about dive bombs. It is a mazing how many people dont understand the mechanics of a standard trem and it's pitfalls. Those that understand it can work with it. Personally I find Floyds easier to deal with when it comes to no customer complaints. As said here before though, they must be maintained.

ok, there you've said it. not a lot to understand. the bridge is too much for most people to deal with. it's just to much to ask with all the maintenance needed.

as for its lack of tone, sorry, there's no amount of spin that can change the reality on that subject

[Flinto2002]

Flinto2002 and Scott, you seem to just want to pick a fight by insulting me. Having lived throughout the US and EU and Middle East, I know all too well the difference between metric and SAE and use them every day of my life... I assure you it is not pilot error.


Ok, then if so.... can you explain the below post in regards to your fumbling for the right wrenches that did notfit perfectly...:dunno


So I fumbled around trying to find the right allen wrenches (always a pain in the ass...I know I could drill screws in the headstock and mount a holder but I don't like the drilling bit) and tried to loosed the string retainers at the neck. They were kinda stuck and my allen wrenches did not fit perfect so the retainers ended up getting rounded off a little


Making room for you to get up on that sopabox.....

You are obviously Floyd lovers so you didn't take the time to understand my thread...yours was a knee-jerk reaction to someone, in your view, dissing your beloved Floyd.


The only one making assumptions here is you my friend. I was only responding to specifics in your post. For the record, I have 9 guitars...one has a floyd, 5 have wilkinson and gotoh versions of standard non locking trems and 3 are hardtail. I'm not sure if that makes me a dive bombing floyd lover or not. I've just never had the problems you seem to have. YES, string changes take a little longer, and forget about restringing between songs....BUT, the upside is you don't have to tune it between songs, after it comes out of the case etc...

[matt5150]

I actually prefer the FR to any other bridge.

It suits my style and after years of parctice I can restring it as fast as my Wilki or Fender bridges, but it will stay in tune all night and I have yet to ever break a string.

Definitely something that takes finesse, but it WELL worth the effort.

Matt

[buddastrat]

Oh I forgot how much I'd break strings with a Floyd compared to a Fender. I play agressively and at least once a week, it's due to that sharp angle where it clamps at the bridge. With a Fender, maybe once or twice a year, seriously.

Matt, considering all the extra steps for stringing, it naturally has to take longer to string a Floyd over a Fender. If you take the same time to do a Fender, I don't know... You have to do a LOT more things with a Floyd like cutting ends, unlocking, guiding under locknut and tension bar, seating and reclamping at bridge, locking. Even just to remove the old strings you have to do more. That's just fact. I hate changing strings to begin with and that stuff got old real fast.

[JDouglee]

I change strings in pairs on a Floyd, I leave the other 4 strings clamped down at pitch.
Stretch in pairs, and when I'm done it's 99% correct at the tuner. About the same time
as a vintage bridge, if not quicker. It's just the physics of a floating bridge, it's not
rocket science.

[matt5150]

Oh I forgot how much I'd break strings with a Floyd compared to a Fender. I play agressively and at least once a week, it's due to that sharp angle where it clamps at the bridge. With a Fender, maybe once or twice a year, seriously.

Matt, considering all the extra steps for stringing, it naturally has to take longer to string a Floyd over a Fender. If you take the same time to do a Fender, I don't know... You have to do a LOT more things with a Floyd like cutting ends, unlocking, guiding under locknut and tension bar, seating and reclamping at bridge, locking. Even just to remove the old strings you have to do more. That's just fact. I hate changing strings to begin with and that stuff got old real fast.

Naw, I've got it down:AOK


I string the ball end thru and clamp at the bridge. 1 cut and I can tighten.
To restring, I merely remove the tension with my cordless drill and snip the string at the tuner and and pull back to the bridge and untighten.

With a Strat, I have to string thru the body and cut the string at the tuner as well. I have had many ball ends catch at the block end and impede the string change.

Matt

[Luke]

I have 12 Floyd equipped guitars, no problems. Sure int eh late 1980s and early 1990s the block screw use to strip, but no longer with the advent of the hardened inserts.

[buddastrat]

Matt, I had it down too. I did all the changes/setups for the shop I work at. You still have extra steps like guiding, unclamping, reclamping... .brings back bad memories from gigs when breaking a string. So you're using a drill as well to help speed up the winding? I also had to carry WD40 along with the other tools to gigs. My blocks would rust stick as they'd age, and couldn't get the string end out.

I still deal with Floyds a lot in lessons I give. It's no fun when you have to sit and tune and use valuable lesson time because the song they want to learn in a tuning other than what their guitar is in.

as much as you can streamline the changing on a Floyd, you can't beat the simplicity of a strat with klusons, it's stick it through and wind. You don't even have to cut the ends if you don't want, I do but only use two wraps on a post so I don't even need to use a string winder. Literally takes seconds per string if you were to time.

[Mikey2201]

I have 2 Floyd equipped and 2 Kahler equipped guitars. IMHO Floyd work well but are a pain in the ass. String changes, set up etc is much easier with the Kahlers than Floyd. In my experience Kahler will match Floyd for tuning stability even after multiple dive bombs. If i had to choose i would pick Kahler.

[ssites]

well said.

i would only add that i cannot stand how they sound. being so dominate in terms of massive klunkyness, they rob all the complexities in tone that the wood of the body has to offer

When blazing through a high gain amp using a guitar equipped with a floyd is the "natural tone" of the wood all that important?:dude

Most floyd guys are heavy rock players. Been using them for 25 years and wouldn't go without one. Once you get the technique of setting/tuning them they are a snap.

[JZWest]

When blazing through a high gain amp using a guitar equipped with a floyd is the "natural tone" of the wood all that important?:dude

Most floyd guys are heavy rock players. Been using them for 25 years and wouldn't go without one. Once you get the technique of setting/tuning them they are a snap.

dude, can't argue with you on this, you make a good point. but if all you care about is the fundamental note/tone then you are there

now days more people are playing with wicked fat and cutting wood tone and it can make for a far more interesting high gain sound

[burner]

The frikkin' hate!
Do you have any idea what I'd do do have a Floyd installed on my #1 Strat?
Well...do ya?:dunno

[Lewkk]

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/search.php

[5E3]

To the OP; funny read! :roll

I've never owned a F.R. equipped guitar and seriously doubt I ever will (unless somebody gives me one :))

[mvd18969]

I own a few guitars w/ older Original Floyds on them. I don't have a problem w/ any of them w/ staying in tune, performance, etc. The key is that they have to be set up correctly. Once you have it set up right, you're good from there. Takes me about 15 minutes to completely restring/tune a Floyd equipped guitar. As for tuning, it never really goes out of tune so I'm not sure why anyone is doing all of this retuning??? Once I restring, it is literally minor tweaks to the fine tuners until I restring it again!A well set up Floyd is the only style of trem that can perform 100% all the time.
"IF"it is well maintained and set up correctly .
Nothing else performs this well ,the real question is do you need one to play your stuff?

[Bankston]

Floyds are well-worth the hassle in my book.

If diving is all you do with a Floyd, then you're missing a world of creativity and expression.

[bluesguitarist8]

Floyd Rose bridges suck!Too much effort and hassle.

[scott]

All you have to do if you break a string is cut it where it breaks, pull it back and clamp it into the bridge again. It couldnt be any easier. Unless of course it breaks at the nut but it hardly ever does.
Ive never had a problem with them, I dont find them hard to set up. However, I havent had any use for trem much less a floyd in over ten years. These days it hardtail or TOM for me.

[Waxhead]

A well set up Floyd is the only style of trem that can perform 100% all the time.
"IF"it is well maintained and set up correctly .
Nothing else performs this well ,the real question is do you need one to play your stuff?

Not true Eagle

I've got trems on 2 guitars that are better.

1) Best is a Strat Plus with a standard Fender trem that is upgraded with roller nut & locking tuners. Stick in graphtec string saddles and you get a trem you can dive bomb as hard as a Floyd Rose and it never needs retuning, or adjusting, and I've never once broken a string in 15 years. I've never once had to adjust anything on this trem and it takes 5 mins to re-string.

2) A bigsby on a Gretsch is a great combo also. You can't dive bomb totally but they work flawlessly on a Gretsch and never need adjusting or retuning.

[Luke]

Could you start a pro-relic thread next please?

[Blue4Now]

Takes me all of five minutes to tune up my FR. I honestly don't know what all of the fuss is about.

Is it more complicated than a normal bridge? Yup.
Does it suck if you can't find the Allen wrenches? Yup.

As the OP said, there are easy ways around the allen wrench issue. I just keep a set in my case, and put them back in the case when I'm done.

Tuning just takes a bit more time than a normal bridge, but 1/2 hour? That's excessive. With a peg winder and a tuner it's not a big deal to me.


agreed, takes me about 5 minutes to tune one up. no big deal, and mines a Jackson JT-6 trem which is reputed to be inferior to an OFR

[speedyone]

What I cannot understand, is the huge number of people who say their vintage/non locking bridges "stay in perfect tune" and "you can do dive bombs all day and stay in tune".

Really?

I mean, REALLY?!

No sharp or flat strings?

I've been playing since I was 7 (I'm 35 now,) and the only guitars that EVER stayed in tune for extended periods of time were locking-trem equipped.

I have no dog in this fight; I don't think one trem system is the be all end all...vintage bridges have a unique tonality which I prefer, though Floyds stay in tune better.

That said, EVERY guitar I've ever owned (minus locking trem ones,) would have the G string go out of tune. I chalk it up to the fact that I use 009's, and have a heavy vibrato.

I am really looking forward to getting a Super Vee trem, which promises vintage bridge tone, with locking trem goodness.

:)

But for the record, I hate Floyd lock nuts... they can get that nasty sitar effect if not installed correctly.

[sodapopinski]

man, this is getting u-g-l-y. Continue... :munch

[SGNick]

2) A bigsby on a Gretsch is a great combo also. You can't dive bomb totally but they work flawlessly on a Gretsch and never need adjusting or retuning.


Eagle is gonna shit a brick when he reads this.... :roll:roll

[mvd18969]

I highly doubt this......maybe some Blackmore-ish vibrato it will stay in tune but I seriously doubt it stays in tune w/ dive bombing as hard as an OFR...
1) Best is a Strat Plus with a standard Fender trem that is upgraded with roller nut & locking tuners. Stick in graphtec string saddles and you get a trem you can dive bomb as hard as a Floyd Rose and it never needs retuning, or adjusting, and I've never once broken a string in 15 years. I've never once had to adjust anything on this trem and it takes 5 mins to re-string.

[wired]

The only thing I hate about Floyds are string changes. Other than that, I haven't had to mess with mine too much over the years. You can't beat the stability. FWIW, both my Floyd-equipped guitars lower pitch only.

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

I have an Ernie Ball Music Man Axis with a Floyd and it works perfect for playing certain 80s style songs. I usually don't care to screw with them but the best thing you can do is to have it set up stiff enough where it's flat against the body so if you break a string, all the others won't go out of tune. Great guitar other than the skinny neck.


http://i30.tinypic.com/2ji4ww.jpg

[Nergalled]

Laziness. Great tone, Great playability, Great versatility, Great system. Bigsby, Strat? Not the same, not even close. Suhr has already settled this.

[jet66]

I like the sound of the Floyd, as well as the tuning stability. I've also got a Strat with a Wilkinson trem, LSR nut, and locking tuners. Stays in tune decently with basic trem work, but nowhere as reliable as the Floyd when it comes to 'severe use.'

I think the biggest problem with a lot of trems like the Wilkie is that while the saddles are firmly attached to the base, the strings are still free to move around. That means whenever you bottom it out, the strings lift off of the saddles AND shift in position inside the block. Returning to zero, they don't usually land right back in the same spots, and the tuning is out. I can usually get it back to 'close enough' with a little flick or two of the arm, but I don't tend to have that happen with the Floyd. (Or it's clones/offshoots, i.e. Kahler Steeler, Ibanez 80's Edge.)

But, to each their own. I'm sure that's why there are so many brands and models of guitars with almost endless options: There's plenty of marketshare to be had, all around.

[Eagle1]

Not true Eagle

I've got trems on 2 guitars that are better.

1) Best is a Strat Plus with a standard Fender trem that is upgraded with roller nut & locking tuners. Stick in graphtec string saddles and you get a trem you can dive bomb as hard as a Floyd Rose and it never needs retuning, or adjusting, and I've never once broken a string in 15 years. I've never once had to adjust anything on this trem and it takes 5 mins to re-string.

2) A bigsby on a Gretsch is a great combo also. You can't dive bomb totally but they work flawlessly on a Gretsch and never need adjusting or retuning.

You may have two that work great for you ,but how dose that make them better?
Also your experience with those particular trem units is certainly not the norm.
I personally have other none locking trems that can equal a Floyd for performance but this is down to many factors not just the trem.

[Jimi D]

2) A bigsby on a Gretsch is a great combo also. You can't dive bomb totally but they work flawlessly on a Gretsch and never need adjusting or retuning.
Waxhead - please go to the Gretsch Pages and school those poor boys on how to set up a perfect Bigsby. They seem to be having trouble getting it right... Hell, I have a trapeze/ABR Gretsch Duo Jet, and I can't even get it to stay in tune! (but at least the ABR intonates correctly, unlike those bars bridges!)

Love Floyds myself - best tool for many jobs, and the tuning stability is unparalleled... Oh, and I think they sound great on many a guitar. I'd love to get one of the new Floyd-equipped LPs that Gibson's making now! (but, my God, the PRICE!)

FTR, I have a AmDlx V-Neck Strat that has impecable tuning stability with its Fender 2-point trem and locking tuners, so I know that it can be done, but I've owned a lot of Fenders, and this is the only Strat-style trem I've had that is this solid...

[LesPaulMan]

The only way I can deal with any whammy is if it is blocked.

Just can't deal with bending strings within chords and having the whole damn thing be out of tune.

[MisterE]

I can, I just compensate by pulling up on the bar.
on the other hand, I've been used to playing with Floyds for 20yrears now.
If you don't like it, don't buy it.
I can not get used to a guitar without a Floyd.
To each his own.
But if you like whammy's, I've not found anytrhing that beats a Floyd.

[bkd_guitarist]

I'm brushing up on some Van Halen stuff that my cover band will be doing, so over the weekend I had occasion to get my old Charvel Soloist out of the closet. I love this guitar for its 80's rock and metal tone, its lightning fast thin neck, and yes, for its Floyd! The thing is rock-solid in tune every time I pick it up, and it stays that way no matter how hard I abuse it. I have the string change process down so it takes maybe 10% longer than on a non-Floyd guitar.

Of course it's a specialized tool, and I don't use it for much other than the 80's stuff. But I dig the Floyd.

[Waxhead]

You may have two that work great for you ,but how dose that make them better?
Also your experience with those particular trem units is certainly not the norm.
I personally have other none locking trems that can equal a Floyd for performance but this is down to many factors not just the trem.

Just like everyone is talking from personal experience so am I.
These 2 trems are best for me. I'm not speaking for anyone else - are you.

Plus - if you talk to Strat Plus owners, or even look at reviews on Harmony Central, you'll see nearly all Strat Plus owners report the same thing about the trem system. The only mod I've done to it is put in graphtec string saddles but that wasn't for the trem system & it didn't improve it anyways. It's the best trem system I've ever seen stock. Really don't care if no-one beleives me - go try one yourself

As for Bigsby's in Gretsch Jets I'm a member of the Gretsch pages forum too and there's heaps of guys over there reporting zero issues with bigsby's. The made in Japan post 2000 Gretsch's seem to be a lot more reliable with bigsby operation. My 2004 Jet works flawlessy every time and I've done zero mod's to it. Nothing unusual about that. You just can't totally dive bomb them is all - otherwise perfect.

[Eagle1]

Just like everyone is talking from personal experience so am I.
These 2 trems are best for me. I'm not speaking for anyone else - are you.

Plus - if you talk to Strat Plus owners, or even look at reviews on Harmony Central, you'll see nearly all Strat Plus owners report the same thing about the trem system. The only mod I've done to it is put in graphtec string saddles but that wasn't for the trem system & it didn't improve it anyways. It's the best trem system I've ever seen stock. Really don't care if no-one beleives me - go try one yourself

As for Bigsby's in Gretsch Jets I'm a member of the Gretsch pages forum too and there's heaps of guys over there reporting zero issues with bigsby's. The made in Japan post 2000 Gretsch's seem to be a lot more reliable with bigsby operation. My 2004 Jet works flawlessy every time and I've done zero mod's to it. Nothing unusual about that. You just can't totally dive bomb them is all - otherwise perfect.

As a full time tech I'm talking about thousands of guitars over the last 25 years. The only time a Bigsby stays in time is when it has no pressure bar and the tunamatic is so sloppily made the whole thing rocks backward and forward without the string moving in the saddle at all .This must also be backed up by an excellent nut cut for trem use and good stringing up and tuning practice(up to the note only with a couple of wraps around the posts that don't overlap.)This is possible but not often seen. I never said I didn't believe you.

[buddastrat]

If you need extreme spaceships and cricket warbles, a Floyd is best. But a Floyd will stay in tune super for even a neanderthal (sp?). It's locked and clamped everywhere anyhow.

But non locking, especially vintage trems takes skill and understanding of the system and techniques to use it. I see lots of strat guys wait until the end of a song, or set to finally use their whammy. Because they'll be out tune after. But the guys that know how to use it, will use it through the whole set and not worry.

I think if you sit and play with most any type of non locking trem system and learn it's intricacies you can learn how to keep it in tune really well. I can keep a vintage trem in tune really well, but the two post trems give me a headache. It's because I haven't really owned one to mess with and figure out.

Sure a Bigsby won't do elephant calls to well but....

[ssites]

As the OP said, there are easy ways around the allen wrench issue.

GAD

20 years with Floyds. A little velcro on the back of the headstock, and wrap a little piece around the allen wrench. Mine have lived there forever. Never mis-place it.