Amp Advice: PRRI vs. ValveTrain vs. 57 Deluxe

[dougg]

Okay, I've been trying out a bunch of amps, and I'm down to three. I have a great deal on a PRRI and that's what I'm leaning towards right now, but my options are below. I'm looking for something that is good for bedroom and small (very small) gig, and I like a good crunchy blues sound or traditional Fender cleans:

1. Princeton Reverb Reissue. GREAT deal on a new one at $749. Sounded great; a little dry/boxy in the store but I think it needs some play time to open up. In the short time I demoed it, it seemed to warm up a bit. At this price, it seems like a too-good-to-pass-up deal.

2. 57 Tweed Deluxe. LOVED the sound of this, but the price is crazy. Found a good new one for just under $1700, and used ones on ebay seem to be in the mid $1200s. My concern was that it's a really loud 12W - for some reason it seemed louder than the PRRI. Also, no reverb.

3. ValveTrain Tallboy w/ 12" speaker. Found a few used ones in the $600-800 range. Never had a chance to play one, although I did try a 205 in a local store and it was nice. Felt this might be too little for a small gig.

I'm leaning PRRI, with the thought of a speaker upgrade down the road, but any opinions are welcome & appreciated! Btw, before anyone asks I have read just about every old thread on the PRRIs, as well as on ValveTrain in general!

[SoCalSteve]

The only input I can offer is as someone in the market for a 5E3.

You said you love the Tweed Deluxe. What I've found is that you can get a hand-built one for much less than those prices above. Builders like Richter and littledawgamps.com sell them for around $850-ish with a speaker. Richter sells hers on ebay and just had one sell yesterday for $845 w/free shipping. When I get the funds I will probably buy from one of these two. I'm sure Valvetrains are top-notch as well.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Richter-5E3-G-Narrow-Panel-Tweed-15Ws-of-Classic-Tones_W0QQitemZ130309715825QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item1e57107771&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A13|66%3A2|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1 |293%3A1|294%3A50

http://www.littledawgamps.com/amps.htm

[dougg]

Thanks, SoCalSteve. I've actually done a bit of research on some of the smaller builders, but what concerned me was not being able to try them first, and in some cases, the wait time for building them. If I go the 5E3 route, that is a definite consideration - I appreciate the input.

I am about 99% on the PRRI after listening to a clip of Jim Campilongo play one (below). Found this in a PRRI thread earlier. My thought now, and this is me justifying GAS, is that a PRRI AND a 5E3 might not be a bad choice - two great amps for different purposes/sounds. But I will need to pace myself.

[sharpshooter]

There are SO many builders of the 5E3 out there, any of the reputable builders have got that curcuit down pat. The only difference will be in the individual choices of some components, and layout. The 5E3 sounds loud, in the beginning stages of gain, but will run out of headroom real fast. It's still the "standard", for a lower wattage amp, that can still hang with a "responsibly dynamic" drummer. I would'nt worry about the sound, or quality, of any of the top builders.

[resonator48]

I've owned several great amps over the last few years. They're all gone except the PRRI. I just love this amp. It takes pedals very well and works well with humbuckers and single coil. That said, I'm looking for a good 5e3 tweed to add to the PRRI. The Richter 15 watt is a great amp at a great price. But the Richter Supra-Luxe 30 watt that Bob is playing in the above video is calling to me.

I'm like you though. I'd rather try it in person before committing to it.

[dougg]

Thanks all. Here's the clip for the Jim Campilongo demo I mentioned above; someone posted this a while back which is how I found it, but I think it's worth posting again. This, and the good price, have sold me on the PRRI. I plan on picking it up tomorrow after work. I'll post a review once I've had a chance to play with it a bit if anyone's interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHVG4kDurtY

[OnlyVees]

That might have been me that posted the Jim C. clip. I could listen to him play endlessly... what a talented, and unique musician.

All things being equal, (and they aren't) I'll take the one with reverb. The Deluxe probably sounded louder because of the larger 12-inch speaker and the tweed-style tone stack. The PRRI might seem like it has more headroom, as Leo designed the Blackface amps to run louder and cleaner.

The Princeton also has tremolo and a tube rectifier. Why don't I own one of these? The BF model on my SCXD gets me about 90% of that tone... but the last 10% is where the magic happens.

[dougg]

That might have been me that posted the Jim C. clip. I could listen to him play endlessly... what a talented, and unique musician.

Yeah - I don't know much about him, but I'm going to pick up one of his cds this week.

Am I crazy about the volume difference on the PRRI vs. the Deluxe? The PRRI is 15W, and the Deluxe is 12W. To me, and this is really not a scientific analysis, but the Deluxe sounded a lot louder. Could the bigger speaker have something to do with that? Or maybe the cleaner headroom allows the PRRI to maybe "shine" a little quicker at lower volumes, whereas the Deluxe needs a little more volume to get it pumping?

I'm really new to amps; I've focused so much on what I'm playing over the years without enough focus on what I'm playing into. And here goes the second round of GAS...

[Jim S]

I would not spend money on a Fender Deluxe Tweed RI. IMHO, you are paying for the name. Get a used clone: it's already depreciated and they can be found easily if you search around and wait a bit or even put a call out "WTB Tweed Deluxe clone" in the Amp Emporium here. I bought a Tweed Deluxe copy used here on TGP last year; had it for a month and flipped it for nearly even money. Wasn't my cup of tea.

You might be able to purchase both a used PRRI and used Deluxe Tweed copy for under $1200.

I don't know anything about the third amp you list.

[Sikor]

Am I crazy about the volume difference on the PRRI vs. the Deluxe? The PRRI is 15W, and the Deluxe is 12W. To me, and this is really not a scientific analysis, but the Deluxe sounded a lot louder.
Do You mean 65 Deluxe Reverb Reissue? It's 22W, not 12:
http://www.fender.com/products//search.php?partno=0217400000

[5E3]

If you want a Tweed Deluxe, definitely buy a 5E3 clone. You can find a used Richter and others for around $750. They are LOUD for bedroom / home use.

If you like using pedals for your dirt and OD sounds, IMO a cleaner amp would work better. In that case I would get the PRRI. I've read a lot of praise for that amp with a 10" Ragin' Cagin speaker, and some have installed a baffle board to accommodate a 12" speaker which would sound even better and give you a lot more speaker choices. Then again, you may be completely happy with the PRRI's stock speaker once it breaks in.

Let us know what you end up with!
:BEER

[dougg]

Well, I picked up the PRRI last night. Great deal - new at $750. I have to play at bedroom volumes, so I haven't had much of a chance to really open it up at all yet, but here are my initial thoughts:

After messing around with it a bit to find a good setting, I started to really warm up to it. It has a slightly brighter sound than what I've been used to, and I found myself having to adjust to the dynamics of the amp a bit. But I'm starting to really enjoy that clean sparkle that people talk about (hate to sound cliche or whatever, but too tired to be original). I also tried it with a tubescreamer, and that sounded pretty cool.

I'm going to give it a better run this weekend, but thought I'd share my intial thoughts. Thanks again to everyone for the feedback - I definitely appreciate it.

[dougg]

Quick update on this; thought people interested in the PRRI might benefit. After turning up the volume a bit today to really dig into what this amp can do, I found I've got the "rattle" issue that has plagued so many PRRI buyers. Seems to be coming from the baffle/chassis on the low notes, and sounds like what many people have described in detail on earlier threads.

I am not handy at all with amps, and although I've read through the fixes on various threads I'm tempted to return this one. I want to play this thing, not fart around with it, which is why I went new. It does sound great, so I may hold it another day or two and see how I feel. Kind of a bummer, but I'll either have to live with it or maybe go the 5E3 route.

[FiestaRed]

I love my PRRI. I put a Weber 10F50T in it and it came alive. I goose it with either a tube screamer or an OCD. There is the rattle problem, but that can be fixed.

What a cool little amp.

[dougg]

What a cool little amp.

Ultimately, I agree. I love the sound, and the more I played it and compared to other amps, the more I leaned towards sticking with it. I actually ran around town today and checked out two other PRRIs, and both had the rattle issue. So, I guess it's just a deal with the way the amp is built.

I took it to the dealer I bought it from today, and they have a guy who does repairs. I don't think he's Fender certified, but they said he'd take a look at it and get back to me before doing anything. I'll see how that goes, and if there's a quick fix, great - if not, I'll just live with it for a while. I definitely don't want to mess around with sending it back to Fender, and after trying these others out I'm not sure I'd want to, anyway.

[s360guitarist]

Same boat here...tried out some amps, some good amps at that - still the PRRI came out on top for me at least.

Rattle? You bet. No question. Come on Fender! How many music gear nerds does take to get you off of your butt to fix this. FMIC has been tooting their horn about their R&D guys sitting in a room trying to match the best 65 BF Princeton sound before putting this amp on the market...for what? A rattle in the cab? Seriously!

Anyway, sorry for the rant. Being the music gear nerd I was referring to I gotta say I would like to know what the fix is...Keep us posted. Maybe its best to save for an ebay SF Princeton and say screw it to the FrappaMochaLatte sippers over at Fender. (Oh man, I just cracked myself up.)

[Telesteve]

I have owned a PRRI for about 8 months now and have owned a 57 Deluxe Clone (Victoria 20112) for much longer. Lke many others have said the 57 is a completly different beast than the PRRI. I play a tele with the PRRI as my clean amp and my 57 as my dirty amp and A/B/Y between them - it's a nice combination. I agree that the 57 is a little louder because you have to crank it up a bit to get that great overdrive but if I use a seymour duncan pickup booster on humbucker mode with the 57 the difference isn't that much. I also believe that about 99% of "the PRRI rattle" is the c10R speaker. I have tried a Eminence Copperhead and a weber 10F150T and with those speakers the only time I hear any rattle unless the
volume is on "10" and then it's very minor and sporadic. Try another speaker before you give up on the PRRI

[dougg]

Update: I took it to the dealer I bought it from, and they of course noticed the rattle issue. They said they'd have their tech take a look, but he's not Fender certified, so I called Fender and they said it would have to go to the certified shop across town, although the "PRRI rattle" seemed to be news to them. While I'd started to really love the sound of the amp, going back & forth across town for a repair wasn't something I was looking forward to.

In the meantime, I got a call from the shop - Alexandria Music in VA. They had already sent the amp over to the certified repair shop, and just needed a copy of my receipt for Fender. So, they are taking care of everything and I should be able to pick it up - from their store, which is near my home - in about two weeks. They also have another PRRI on order, and they said if it comes in before my amp they'll call and I can take it instead of waiting longer if it doesn't have the dreaded rattle.

Great amp, and great customer service from Alexandria Music so far on this. I was a little bummed about one issue kind of screwing up this deal, but I have to say the dealer is really saving the day in taking the hassle out of this, and I'm pretty pumped that I should end up with a nice issue-free amp, even if I have to be a little patient for it.