Electrons can't survive in a crystal lattice.

[infragreen]

This is that infamous Dumble quote from that infamous Youtube video.

Everybody scoffs at it, and proclaims it is wrong.

Why?



Technically I really don't know squat, so I have no idea. That's why I'm asking.

[rog951]

http://207.199.174.56/img/fRIHxrJARF_bill_ajntsa.jpg

[infragreen]

http://207.199.174.56/img/fRIHxrJARF_bill_ajntsa.jpg

Sorry, I don't hang out here much.

[pula58]

Semiconductors are made of a crystaline lattice. True. A semiconductor does not have as many free electrons as a highly conducting metal..but. still, there are plenty of electrons in Silicon surviving just fine.

[jay42]

I feel so sad for those poor electrons, all tied up in that lattice. They should be free. No one should own them. :crazy

[GearHeadFred]

"Free the fragile harmonic electrons now"

I'm sorry, something about any reference to that crazy Kaiser/Dumble video just turns me into a troll.. I'm really not normally this way.. :-)

I have found this link to be a very well thought out, technically sound, and reasonable explanation to the question "So tell me Dr. D, why do tubes sound better than transistors?"

http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes/hartley/chapter_3.pdf

[infragreen]

"Free the fragile harmonic electrons now"

I'm sorry, something about any reference to that crazy Kaiser/Dumble video just turns me into a troll.. I'm really not normally this way.. :-)

I have found this link to be a very well thought out, technically sound, and reasonable explanation to the question "So tell me Dr. D, why do tubes sound better than transistors?"

http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes/hartley/chapter_3.pdf

Thanks man.

I was generally curious. An HC I was got into with the whole Dumble thing and nobody could really say why the crystal lattice thing is supposed to be so ridiculous exactly.

Either way, it made for this hilarious photochop I never get tired of re-posting.

I dunno who made it, but I'm sure it was someone who frequents here. Props!

http://pic15.picturetrail.com/VOL570/4110091/13664296/366360636.jpg

[RedRock]

I get my lattice at Safeway.

[Big White Tele]

I doubt they could survive in my wifes Tuna salad, but then I doubt anything could. Mr Dumble is looking pretty snappy in that photo, Has he been working out?

[WesKuhnley]

I love the bandanna he's wearing in the video. I'm gonna start wearing one like it...

[1guitarslinger]

I watch that clip at least once a week. As a guitar player, and a technician, I giggle like a schoolgirl every time.

It is by far, one of the most fantastic clips on Youtube. I mean you can't make stuff like that up!

[Scott Peterson]

That whole video is truly a surreal thing to experience. No matter where you fall on the fence of the actual artistic value of it, Mr. D's explanation is worthy of a full transcription:

The difference comes down to this... umm, the more fragile harmonics can survive in a vacuum tube; where they seem to be, ah, eliminated or squashed in a solid state crystal lattice. I think it comes down to that. The physics of it... electrons can survive in a free space vacuum where they have trouble in a crystal lattice. I think that's the best and simplest I can put it.

[GuitarsFromMars]

That whole video is truly a surreal thing to experience. No matter where you fall on the fence of the actual artistic value of it, Mr. D's explanation is worthy of a full transcription:


Scott, please make the bad man go away....

[WesKuhnley]

That whole video is truly a surreal thing to experience. No matter where you fall on the fence of the actual artistic value of it, Mr. D's explanation is worthy of a full transcription:

I think that's going to be in my sig...yup.

[leofenderbender]

That whole video is truly a surreal thing to experience. No matter where you fall on the fence of the actual artistic value of it, Mr. D's explanation is worthy of a full transcription:

That's *DOCTOR* D.

[MstrBones]

What I wonder about, when I wonder at all, is when will this minority, these electrons, (reminds me of the Metrons from Star Trek), finally be surveyed on their opinion of all this vacutoob-lettuce-flanginator stuff. And what about the many hybrid toob/solidified state amps? :-)

The mind reels.

[analogmike]

oh, the humanity....

[davemccarthy707]

Crystals definitely cannot survive in lettuce.

[Mike R.]

Bacon, lattice & tomato

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[GearHeadFred]

What I wonder about, when I wonder at all, is when will this minority, these electrons, (reminds me of the Metrons from Star Trek), finally be surveyed on their opinion of all this vacutoob-lettuce-flanginator stuff. And what about the many hybrid toob/solidified state amps? :-)

The mind reels.

I ask you this: What could be better than a Dumble thread with Old School Star Trek references?

[Nathan]

Well I have a degree in materials engineering so here goes:
I am not aware of how this topic has been discussed in the past, but the answer is wrong. Yes, it's true that the majority of free electrons are covalently bonded in all ceramics, but some can remain free. The semiconductor phenomenon has little to do with the existence of "fragile harmonics". The gap energy is quantified in a transistor while there is nothing in a vacuum tube to impede the flow of electrons, so frequencies are maintained better in a tube while transistors cough up electrons in "pockets".

[davemccarthy707]

Well I have a degree in materials engineering so here goes:
I am not aware of how this topic has been discussed in the past, but the answer is wrong. Yes, it's true that the majority of free electrons are covalently bonded in all ceramics, but some can remain free. The semiconductor phenomenon has little to do with the existence of "fragile harmonics". The gap energy is quantified in a transistor while there is nothing in a vacuum tube to impede the flow of electrons, so frequencies are maintained better in a tube while transistors cough up electrons in "pockets".

Take that naysayers! Old Dumbleberry was right!

[Mike R.]

Yeah yeah yeah...but can you make a Dumble amp?


Well I have a degree in materials engineering so here goes:
I am not aware of how this topic has been discussed in the past, but the answer is wrong. Yes, it's true that the majority of free electrons are covalently bonded in all ceramics, but some can remain free. The semiconductor phenomenon has little to do with the existence of "fragile harmonics". The gap energy is quantified in a transistor while there is nothing in a vacuum tube to impede the flow of electrons, so frequencies are maintained better in a tube while transistors cough up electrons in "pockets".

[Wilbur]

Hey! Look at me! I've never posted in a Dumble thread.







...dammit!


:facepalm

[GearHeadFred]

Well I have a degree in materials engineering so here goes:
I am not aware of how this topic has been discussed in the past, but the answer is wrong. Yes, it's true that the majority of free electrons are covalently bonded in all ceramics, but some can remain free. The semiconductor phenomenon has little to do with the existence of "fragile harmonics". The gap energy is quantified in a transistor while there is nothing in a vacuum tube to impede the flow of electrons, so frequencies are maintained better in a tube while transistors cough up electrons in "pockets".

Well this should serve to fuel the fire for a few more rounds!!

But seriously though.... Do we agree that transistors used in audio applications, like tubes, have a flat frequency response curve from DC to well well well (well well well) beyond the human hearing range? Even when 'coughing up electrons in pockets'?

[Baxtercat]

When I was young I had my Peavey SS 260-watt bass head hooked up to a weak, old 12-incher and the speaker coughed up a piece of melted aluminum during a feedback solo.

[Lanesplitter]

Electrons can't survive being boiled off a cathode.

[Nathan]

Yeah yeah yeah...but can you make a Dumble amp?

Given a schematic yes, I can :YinYang. But can I design my own amp from scratch? Not a chance. However, Mr. Dumble probably started by modding other circutis to come to his designs, so neither could he!

But seriously though.... Do we agree that transistors used in audio applications, like tubes, have a flat frequency response curve from DC to well well well (well well well) beyond the human hearing range? Even when 'coughing up electrons in pockets'?

Nope -the nature of transistors is to have the electrons jump the gap(s) to a "hole" in essence, and this takes x amount of energy to cross from one shell to another. In a metal, eletrons exist in a "sea" surrounding all the nuclei (metallic bonding), and it's easy to motivate them to motion (ie. current). In a vacuum, they simply leave the comfort of home, pass through the grid which controls the signal for amplification, and none of this required a quantizing of energy. Push a little, they move a little, push alot, they move alot until the tubes clip and we get sweet distortion.

[Stu Blue]

But seriously though.... Do we agree that transistors used in audio applications, like tubes, have a flat frequency response curve from DC to well well well (well well well) beyond the human hearing range? Even when 'coughing up electrons in pockets'?

Any audiophile hi fi fanatic can tell you that two amps with identical frequency curves can and do sound completely different. The sweep tests are just too simple/trivial to tell you how the amp will reproduce actual music. In fact I'm not aware that anyone can yet accurately and scientifically measure real music in and music out of any amp. By ear, valve amps reproduce music in a more subtle and involving way... at a high cost unfortunately.... and Nathan has given us one of the reasons.

[Nathan]

Ya but one more thing: the hi fi crew generally spends oodles of money on every component where guitar guys settle for certain "standard" speakers, transformers, resistors and caps. Even the most boutique of guitar tube amp makers have nothing on the psychotic tube hi fi prices. And we thought Dumbles cost alot!

[andrekp]

Even funnier though is the related clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1qCczGgSxw&feature=related

I honestly don't know how they kept a straight face doing this. I about pee myself every time I watch it!

[leofenderbender]

Dung from Doctor D (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVTj08qTwGw&feature=related)

[pula58]

Even funnier though is the related clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1qCczGgSxw&feature=related

I honestly don't know how they kept a straight face doing this. I about pee myself every time I watch it!


I hope I never sound like that (not Dumble, the other guy)! Shrill, horrible.

[GAD]

Crystal Lattice this is Brass Hat; do you copy?

GAD

[kurtsstuff]

Krank amps Kick ass!!!!:banana:banana:banana

[dewman]

As a Ph.D. chemist, this is completely a joke statement. Best to waste time elsewhere....


This is that infamous Dumble quote from that infamous Youtube video.

Everybody scoffs at it, and proclaims it is wrong.

Why?



Technically I really don't know squat, so I have no idea. That's why I'm asking.

[1guitarslinger]

Even funnier though is the related clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1qCczGgSxw&feature=related

I honestly don't know how they kept a straight face doing this. I about pee myself every time I watch it!

You don't hear frontier gibberish, guitar masturbation like that just anywhere.

Have you guys watched the one where he and his band are "doing their things" to the poor Asian woman's playing? She looks like she wonders how she got roped into it.

[bilbal]

Sure, the last time I "critiqued" one of HK's vids, I gotted my ass handed to me because " I can't appreciate it" or something bs to that effect. I merely asked a question...wtf?

[merkaba22]

This is that infamous Dumble quote from that infamous Youtube video.

Everybody scoffs at it, and proclaims it is wrong.

Why?



Technically I really don't know squat, so I have no idea. That's why I'm asking.

Personally, I suspect he is dumbing down a true principal that may only be proven by quantum physics, for example, wherein one can only create misunderstanding by dissecting the shadows created by the limitations of the language. fwiw

[Tonefish]

I think he has something there.

[RedRock]

Crystal Lattice would be:

A good band name;

A good song title.

[waxnsteel]

As a Ph.D. chemist, this is completely a joke statement. Best to waste time elsewhere....

As a guy who passed 6th grade, I agree.

[GAD]

As a guy who passed 6th grade, I agree.

Stop mocking me with your superious education!

GAD

[GearHeadFred]

It's too bad the Voyager spacecraft was launched before this video was produced. Otherwise, we could have included it on the "sounds of earth" gold record along with the other "hello from Earth" messages to aliens.. Perhaps THEY could explain it?

Quantum physics!!??? Really??? Come on guys! It's an audio amp with a few tweaks on one of the sample application circuits in the RCA Receiving Tube Manual circa 1940!!

On second thought, it will probably be the basis of String Theory research and a Unified Field Theory :rotflmao

[Old Tele man]

...it will probably be the basis of String Theory research and a Unified Field Theory :rotflmao...already there's the theory about WHICH strings to use, and if we can convince everyone to use the same set, we'll have the guitar field unified. (or something like that).

[phsyconoodler]

Looks like Mr Dumble could survive a couple of weeks without his bacon,Lattice and tomato sandwiches.

Seriously,he was put on the spot by Mr. Stacatto,so what do you expect?I think his answer was nothing short of brilliant.
I would have answered something like" because electrons have more room to roam inside a vacuum tube so they're more creative."
Or "because they just do Kaiser" Stop asking stupid questions and lets ruin my great tone with that staccatto crap and get this session over with!My hemmoroids are killing me!

[GearHeadFred]

Or "because they just do Kaiser" Stop asking stupid questions and lets ruin my great tone with that staccatto crap and get this session over with!My hemmoroids are killing me!

OK - Here is my nomination for post of the month!!

[MstrBones]

I ask you this: What could be better than a Dumble thread with Old School Star Trek references?

Uh, well..., nothing! :-)