Pigtronix Echolution, Empress Superdelay, or Eventide Timefactor [Archive]

View Full Version : Pigtronix Echolution, Empress Superdelay, or Eventide Timefactor

MarkF786

06-23-2009, 08:39 AM

elicious

06-23-2009, 09:23 AM

The problem is I don't have any way to test them all before making a purchase?

Um, you get your ass on a bus/train up to NYC and go to Rudy's/Ultrasound/30thStreetGuitars? Trust me, you'll have a great time and you won't have to do what 93% have to do which is buy all 3 (usually 1 at a time) and then buy back the one we liked. ;)

On the other hand, if yer too lazy to do that then I'll weigh in with my $0.02 I've owned all 3...it all depends on what you need. I owned a Timefactor and loved the out-of-the-box sounds but the tweakability intimidated me so I sold it. The Superdelay is a fantastic delay but if you're a modulation junkie who feels constrained by the lack of Modulation control on the SD (and I am) then you either keep the Superdelay and get a pedal for modulated delay or you move on. I moved on. The Echolution is terrific, too, especially if you're into modulated delay. Once I had the Echolution I realized that I need 2 delay boxes (which sucked for me because I initially bought a DD-7 a year ago thinking that would be "it") so I sold it and bought a DMM, a.k.a. the Granddaddy of all Modulated Delays. I am in the process of repurchasing a Timefactor, too. I have a Skreddy Echo and the DMM, only one of which is staying (tough call!). "Right tool for the job," and all that. You see how insidious this is?:Devil

To recap:

Not a modulation junkie? Your solution is easy: Empress Superdelay.

Do you have experience with delays and are a tweakmonkey? Simple: get the Timefactor.

Are you a total crackhead and feel that you have diversely varied delay needs that need to be met perfectly? Unfortunately you need more than one delay. If money and pedalboard space are not too limited for you then I'd get a used DMM and a used Superdelay (~$600) and you're done for life:). Next addiction, please!:crazyguy

tonally cool

06-23-2009, 09:28 AM

EMPRESS. period.

FAC

06-23-2009, 09:36 AM

The Superdelay is a fantastic delay but if you're a modulation junkie who feels constrained by the lack of Modulation control on the SD (and I am) then you either keep the Superdelay and get a pedal for modulated delay or you move on. I moved on.

I moved on, too...great sounding delay, but the lack of mod control, plus the fact that the delay time knob does not work in tape mode (only the tap tempo can be used to enter delay time in tape mode, not the delay knob). Tap tempo is great, but lots of the time I like to be able to fine tune the delay times.

I moved to the Damage Control Timeline. I am very, very happy with it.

MarkF786

06-23-2009, 11:06 AM

Thanks for the feedback. I looks like elicious laid out some good pros & cons. Modulated delay is important to me, so that's a knock against the Superdelay. So far the Timefactor looks like it is the most flexible (though both the Superdelay and Echotronix have some cool features that the Timefactor doesn't have). Though I'm pretty skilled at programming devices (based on years of programming synths), I don't like wasting too much time on it nowadays, but the Timefactor doesn't seem to be too bad; at least there aren't a lot of menus.

To me the Superdelay and Echotronix look the most fun and easy to use, but the power of the Timefactor might outweigh that. I realize I will probably need two delays, but I was hoping the second one might be a cheaper option.

Mark

lonelylooper

06-23-2009, 11:24 AM

I'm looking for a very flexible delay. So far it looks like the Echolution or the Superdelay seem to be at the top of the heap, though I shouldn't rule out the Timefactor. The problem is I don't have any way to test them all before making a purchase?

Has anyone owned these delays? How do they compare? What has the most flexibility yet is easy to use? Ideally I'd like to buy two of them, but for the time being I can only afford one.

Thanks!

Mark
I had a timefactor and I loved it but GASSING took control of me and I sold it and got an echolution.
In some ways I really miss the timefactor (dual delay madness, longass repeats...).
But actually the echolution is so completely different I find it even hard explaining what it can do. IMO there is nothing even remotely similar to the echolution (for better or worse).
Also I'm not really into modulation in a delay I get my modulation outside the box.
The echolution seems to kind of be a sleeper:BluesBros
I can't speek for the empress but to decide between the pigtronix and the timfactor IMJ you really need to figure out what features are the most important to you.

carltonh

06-23-2009, 12:27 PM

I was deciding between the Echolution and the Timefactor. Ended up buying the Digitech Timebender and being very happy with it.

elicious

06-23-2009, 12:29 PM

I was deciding between the Echolution and the Timefactor. Ended up buying the Digitech Timebender and being very happy with it.

I had a dilemma like that too:

I was trying to decide between a WRX and a Mustang but I bought an El Camino instead and ended up being very happy with it.:D

Thanks for the feedback. I looks like elicious laid out some good pros & cons. Modulated delay is important to me, so that's a knock against the Superdelay. So far the Timefactor looks like it is the most flexible (though both the Superdelay and Echotronix have some cool features that the Timefactor doesn't have). Though I'm pretty skilled at programming devices (based on years of programming synths), I don't like wasting too much time on it nowadays, but the Timefactor doesn't seem to be too bad; at least there aren't a lot of menus.

To me the Superdelay and Echotronix look the most fun and easy to use, but the power of the Timefactor might outweigh that. I realize I will probably need two delays, but I was hoping the second one might be a cheaper option.

Mark

Look, if you already know what delay sounds you like then look no further than a Timefactor (or Timeline). There are no submenus to each knob and it actually becomes intuitive. If you do some homework you can find threads here on TGP that include soundclips where it's very hard to discern between the Timefactor or another delay it's been programmed to emulate. If you're in a band setting, you probably wouldn't even notice any sound quality differences. I play by myself mostly so I can hear the difference but, honestly, I've really been enjoying splitting hairs by getting all the reference delay sounds and making my own choices about which I prefer. If you've already been to that mountaintop then I wholeheartedly recommend that you spend $300 on a nice used Timefactor and save yourself the 6 month pursuit;).

echo unit

06-23-2009, 06:09 PM

I had the Timefactor as well and the Timeline by Damage Control sounds way better and allows the analog guitar signal to pass through to the output of the pedal so your guitar tone is the best with the Timeline.

Also, the Timeline's modulation is much smoother and less digital sounding that the Timefactor's. With the Timefactor in Mod Dealy mode you can easily hear the digital aliasing clock noise when you set the modulation any higher than 3Hz. That made it useless for me. That high pitched noise up there in the vibrato going on the delay repeats is enough to drive you nuts.

Damage Control Timeline.

GuitarBrent

06-30-2009, 12:04 AM

Well, I'm glad we cleared all that up. I'm more confused than ever!

Dandy13

06-30-2009, 07:15 AM

I love my echolution but haven't tried the other two. It's very tweakable with the immediacy of an analogue pedal as opposed to the "programming" nature of a timefactor.

heckler0077

05-31-2010, 11:36 AM

PUMPHOUSE

06-01-2010, 08:28 AM

I've owned the Echolution and still own the Empress SD. I was not impressed with the sound quality of the echolution, it sounded muddy, and the delays would get "garbled" together. The modultion side was nice though and the control options are a plus as well. I will never get rid of my SD. Clear prinstine "trippy" delay sounds always.

SteelyDannyBoy

06-01-2010, 11:52 AM

I haven't tried the Timefactor, although I own an Eventide Eclipse (another animal entirely), but I currently use both the Echolution and Vintage Modified Superdelay.
Yes, it does indeed depend on just what you're after. One feature of the Echolution that I like is the ability to tap in a really long delay time. Like 16 or 20 seconds (I forget exactly). Can be worked nearly like a loop, although that feature is also available. The Superdelay has a superb reverse, which is similar to, but not the same as the Strymon blueSky Reverberator's shimmer function. The SD allows for up to 8 presets as well. With the Echolution, I want to say there is a slight reverb to the delays, while the SD seems relatively flat in that regard (I only play pedal steel, so perhaps others will disagree). At any rate, do you want or need the divisions of the delays like the Echolution offers, or maybe the range of options (tape, tap, multi-position switching) of the Superdelay? If the Timefactor is at all akin to the Eclipse, it is loaded with fantastic sounds, but isn't the best for live performance.

I agree with numerous posts I've seen that indicate there may be no one, single, ultimate delay. Perhaps there never can be (analog vs. digital, tape vs. old analog, battery vs. 9V/15V/18V, etc.) in one reasonably sized pedal. I will also chime in that the Timeline (which I presently own but am not using at the moment) is fantastic, and if Damage Control does not decide - or is unable - to put everything from the TL into a smaller housing, you'd be well advised to try getting one of those.

sixesandsevens

08-21-2010, 06:32 AM

I love my echolution but haven't tried the other two. It's very tweakable with the immediacy of an analogue pedal as opposed to the "programming" nature of a timefactor.

What do you mean by "programming nature"? In my experience, you play some notes, dial in the knobs until it sounds how you like, and then you play more notes.

It's the same immediacy as my ekko 616, it just has two delays and some extra settings.

sixesandsevens

08-21-2010, 07:08 AM

Bump.

To resurrect this old thread...
I've been looking rather intensively at delays for the past week; night and day. I've read specs & reviews, and watched demos of most out there, and I've reached a decision– somewhat. As a one-trick pony somewhere down the road, I'd like to get the Boss RE-20. For now, though, I need a main delay, and thus my dilemna. I've narrowed it down to the Eventide TimeFactor and the Pigtronix Echolution Phi (Yes, I looked at the Empress). So, what are the features, pros, cons, caveats, comparisons, and contrasts just between these two pedals? Any and all chiming in will be appreciated.

Thanks so much!

Regarding features, the lists are available online for comparison, so I won't echo them here.

As far as I recall, all of the delays mentioned on this thread are digital delays, but the eventide is the only one that doesn't sell itself as an analog-styled delay (at least not in most modes). I think at least the phi has some of its modulation done in the analog domain, but I'm not sure about the SD.

Regarding the phi: I've got no experience, but a number of threads have covered it pretty effectively. One thing I did note, the web page for the phi sounds like it's got 6 delays, but I think it's a multitap delay with 6 taps. The TF has a 10-tap multitap mode, so aside from the phi switch, the edge might go to the TF here.

For the timefactor, the only downsides I know of are:

- It's physically kind of big.

- I read a recent report of someone having trouble reading the screen during an outdoor gig. If you use bank mode, this could be a problem, but if not, the knobs tell the tale.

- If you're using bank mode (with presets), even with the update I'm not sure you get a dedicated "bank down" switch. But it's trivially available with an outboard switch *and* something you can map to any of the three external switches. This was a pleasant surprise for me since the digitech fx3 has labels on the switches and I can make "up" and "down" work as labelled.

- You can't run two different delay models at once, which a lot of people seemed to expect to do.

- It's got some weird artifacting with low bit depths on the vintage delay setting. There was a throwdown over that at some point and after the update, they're still there and I believe eventide's stance is that it's authentic for what they were trying to reproduce.

- The only "analog" model they have is the tape echo. The vintage delay is kind of analogish at high bit depths, but is meant to be a model of an early digital delay. If you want an analog, BBD-alike delay, look elsewhere.

- It does process your clean signal when engaged, but you have the option to use a relay bypass if you prefer when it's disengaged. It has a "trail off" bypass mode (DSP+FX?) as well as two cut-off-the-effect-immediately modes. I've been playing with using it in "killdry" mode (100% wet) with a line mixer (the boss LS-2) and still enjoy it both ways.

- There's maybe a bit of a clinical edge to its sound when I use it, but (a) that probably vanishes in a band context and (b) without a true blind test, it could easily be a psychological phenomenon in looking at something with a small screen on it vs. something with just knobs and switches. :)

The TF is a really flexible, great sounding delay. It's got dual nearly-independent delays. No mixing models, but the classic three-knobs - time, level and feedback - are separate. Well, technically one of them is a mix knob between the two delays, but the net effect is the same. It can't emulate every delay on the market, so its sounds aren't for everyone.

For what it's worth, I've had mine for like nine months now and I've fallen out of love with it AND back *in* love with it, so I'm definitely past the honeymoon! What I generally find is that if I'm worried about if it's a perfectly faithful recreation of such-and-such, I'm a little bummed about it, but if I'm picking up a guitar and playing through it, I'm quite pleased. I should really be doing the latter more often. :)

But honestly, all three pedals seem really freakin' cool. Good luck!

10strings

08-21-2010, 08:54 AM

I've owned a Timefactor and other delays. I don't hear of this combination much but I ended up with a Nova Delay and a Subdecay Echobox.

echo unit

08-21-2010, 03:49 PM

I've owned a Timefactor and other delays. I don't hear of this combination much but I ended up with a Nova Delay and a Subdecay Echobox.

I've owned a Timefactor and other delays. I don't hear of this combination much but I ended up with an El Capistan and a Timeline.

ahardmark

08-21-2010, 10:34 PM

Well I haven't used the Timefactor or Superdelay, but I've had the Echolution for a few months. I'm really enjoying it. I think it sounds amazing (I bought it primarily for its tone, rather than its features). I can dial in some great modulated delay tones. It's nice having both the modulated and tap tempo sides in the pedal.

One thing I've noticed is that it's fairly noisy once you turn the blend control up to about 11:30 or higher, which may or may not bother you, and may be somewhat amp dependent. With the multi-taps, I wish there was a switch to kill the full length repeat. A dotted-eighth switch would be nice, as well. I use it in combination with a T. Rex Replica, and I definitely like having both available on my board.

I think the Timefactor would probably be more versatile as your main delay pedal, as long as you're willing to dive in and tweak/program it. However, the tone will be different than the Echolution.

TheNotoriousRig

08-22-2010, 08:41 AM

Moog / Quicksilver / M9 are all real righteous too

saxman_singcan

08-23-2010, 12:28 PM

Does anybody using the Echolution have any problems with noise(hiss) being added as you turn the blend control clockwise? It appears that the unit I received today has this issue. People mostly rave about the sound quality of this pedal so it is hard for me to tell if my pedal is noisy or if people's tolerance in general is high for that kind of noise.

ahardmark

08-23-2010, 01:10 PM