Strat guys-I don't get it. What am I doing wrong?

[mikefair]

I'm on my 5th Strat in about as many years. I've had good ones and really good ones. Fralins, Lollars, Fender CS, big necks, little necks. I can't get any of them to do anything but go plink, plink, plink.

There are plenty of guys that get fierce tone and long sustain with them without a ton of gain (Clapton, Gilmour, Johnson - you know the list).

I'm fine with Teles, SGs, Les Pauls, 335s. Most nights I can stand on a note and make them sing pretty good. I would love to take advantage of the versatility of a Strat, but if I can't make them do anything but plink, I may have to give up the hunt.

Suggestions?

[Cainer]

Hmm -- are you using really light strings with a heavy attack? Maybe you need to raise the action? If it's happened on more than one strat then I don't know, that's odd.

[sanhozay]

Why bang your head against the wall if you have no issues making benchmark guitars like Tele's & Lester's work well for you? I think Strats are just fine but for some things I'd rather play on a Tele or Les Paul, too.

[mikefair]

Alright, I admit some of the head banging is because my favorites seem to all play them at some point in their careers. Or in a lot of cases end up playing them as their main or only guitar. At this point, it's the mystique or the challenge as much as anything else. I do love the way they do clean rhythms.

[kenoflife]

I don't get them either - I've been trying.
its back to my Tele and 335.

There's enough players in the strat tribe -
maybe I don't need to be part of it.

[picnic]

I have had plenty of Strats and Strat style guitars. The thin sound bothered me. Then I added a Carbon Copy and a Rt 66 Compressor to my board to fatten up the sound. Just a little of each

works fine, sounds better

[Litsa]

How about adding some effects and or changing out the pick ups??? Like better single coil pick ups adding two and one really good humbucker....

[stevorc321]

[QUOTE=Cainer;6390009]Hmm -- Maybe you need to raise the action? QUOTE]
+1 IMO strats need a higher action than most guitars to come to life.

[bostonwal]

I find that sometimes I need that extra brightness and cutting edge of an overdriven single coil bridge pickup. Maybe you dont run into those situations like I do. Also, sometimes a clean, rolled-off-treble single coil neck pickup is also what's needed. I find the less girthy (than a humbucker), yet still bassy tone to have a real sing-song quality to it that is a beautiful thing. Clearly ymmv and you can certainly get in the ballpark of those tones with a Tele.

[Swain]

Well, it IS a different sound. Plus, it's a different approach. Different Techniques are probably needed here.

I find that Strats in particular, need you to "produce" the Notes. Whereas a Les Paul reminds me more of a Keyboard, in that you fret a Note, and it sounds.

With a Strat, you need to pay attention to the angle of your Fingers, and how they touch the Strings. Also, be more aware of Finger Pressure, etc. Also, your Picking Technique may need some attention.

I would suggest getting together with a friend who does get a great Strat Tone, and just handing the Strat back and forth.
Have them play some very simple Phrases, and then you try to mimic them. Try to take the exact same guitar, and repeat the exact same Phrases, with the exact same Attack and Tone.
When you can do that, you'll probably have a better feel for what to expect.

I say this, because I think you may just need a little more experience with a Strat. Even though you've owned a few Strats. And it should sound pretty good, even with a Mex. Standard. No need for Lollars, Fralins, special Woods, etc. The basic sounds and feels will be there with a mid-priced Strat.

And you may just not like the feeling of playing a Strat. So, you may just not prefer them for your own playing.
I love the sound of Les Pauls, in the right hands. But, I don't like how I sound on them. Sure, a 335 or an SG I like to play. Especially, a LP Jr.! But, a regular, LP just doesn't work for me.

Hope this helps.

[Scott Auld]

Compressor.

[diego]

Cigarette stuck inbetween the strings and the headstock.

And lose the short-scale, humbucker guitars for a while so you have to figure out how to make the stratocasters work.

[Joe F]

several factors. Assuming the guitar is well made and set up well (action not too low or too high)...a lot of strat players learn to goose the front end of their amps for sustain if they are not using hotter pickups. Even if you are not slamming the amp, you need the amp to be wound up to a decent volume. You may want to try what others have said but also a booster perhaps. My tone is typically a touch compressed (tube compression from the amp) and when I hit the strings right, very fat and focused. It's very possible on a strat, and for me, it's 80% amp, as my strats are not far off from vintage spec.

[Swain]

Yeah, the Amp is critical! Good call!

That's another reason I suggested getting together with a "Strat Guy" who already has their Tones, etc. down. So Mikefair could try the whole Rig. already set-up and working. Plus, instant feedback from the Strat Guy, and from the Rig.

[mikefair]

Man, thanks a lot for all the input everybody. I have noticed that when your fingers are at a 45 degree angle to the frets, your tone is a lot more pure. That doesn't seem to be that critical with Gibs or Teles. Maybe a Beano Boost or something like that in the nose of the amp.

With all the guys that have made them their own (not all guys) Robbie Robertson, Bonnie Raitt, Robin Trower, Ry Cooder, Richard Thompson, Mark Knopfler, ect., etc., etc., maybe I need to be looking for that thing that's uniquely me.

I really appreciate everybody weighing in on this.

[ksuaggie]

One thing that works for me, turn your amp up, more than you think you need to, and pull your volume back on the guitar. Don't know why, but it has really opened up strats for me.

[theRocco]

Pickup height may be an issue, most like them low, experiment with that before you give up.

Might also like a clean boost, like the Xotic RC pedal, fattens up your tone without really changing it and can make even low amp settings sound much fuller.

I love all settings on a Strat, but it takes getting used to "milking" the notes a bit more than say an LP, and that's why it's so wonderful.

[PLAYLOUD]

Man, thanks a lot for all the input everybody. I have noticed that when your fingers are at a 45 degree angle to the frets, your tone is a lot more pure. That doesn't seem to be that critical with Gibs or Teles. Maybe a Beano Boost or something like that in the nose of the amp.

With all the guys that have made them their own (not all guys) Robbie Robertson, Bonnie Raitt, Robin Trower, Ry Cooder, Richard Thompson, Mark Knopfler, ect., etc., etc., maybe I need to be looking for that thing that's uniquely me.

I really appreciate everybody weighing in on this.

No, no. Not 45 degrees, that's a misconception. It's 47.5 degrees. Everybody knows that.....

[mikefair]

As with life, that 2.5 degrees is often the difference.

[strat a various]

!. Your strings are too low.
2. Not enough neck relief.
3. Your pickups are too low.
4. Your strings are too light.

I guess you are dealing with a combination of some or all of these issues. Have a guitar tech look at your instrument.

[silentbob]

You can't use the same amp setup as a les paul and expect the strat to sound good. I have to do all kinds of EQ gymnastics when I switch from a strat to an LP.

[7/4]

You can't use the same amp setup as a les paul and expect the strat to sound good. I have to do all kinds of EQ gymnastics when I switch from a strat to an LP.

I usually crank up the bass and turn down the treble on the amp with a Strat. Check out the knobs on the guitar too, they make a difference.


...

[jam10]

Callaham guitar parts make amazing bridge blocks or a premium Strat Upgrade kit which includes the block, the saddles, and the trem arm. I upgraded my Strat with the Premium Upgrade Kit and wow what a difference it makes. It's comparable to a Les Paul now. I have both....a Les Paul and a Strat and both are comparable in sustain and tone. You should seriously check out Callaham guitar parts. You will not be dissappointed. They make great products and have great customer service.

[michael patrick]

I'm the same way with Teles. I see some of my favorite guitarists using them and sounding great, and then I see a pretty one for sale and get all GASsy and pull the trigger. But once I get it home, it just doesn't do it for me...

I've pretty much come to accept that I must not be a Tele guy. Maybe you're just not a Strat guy. It happens...

[mikefair]

This Strat is my nemesis and it will not prevail!

[buddastrat]

I love a strat's tone. It's lean and muscular. No flub. Just gotta lay into it with good right hand attack and tone. It has so much harmonics and chime. I don't like it neutered either, you know where some guys put a tone knob for the bridge pickup but that takes away the aggressiveness of the bridge pickup, even when you have the tone knob on 10. A good one will scream and not sound thin at all.

[Scott Auld]

One thing that works for me, turn your amp up, more than you think you need to, and pull your volume back on the guitar. Don't know why, but it has really opened up strats for me.

Right.

Even moreso on Telecasters IMHO.

[mattelliott]

One of the biggest problems I see with people playing strats is that they almost assume that there is no difference in playing a strat from any other guitar. I know this is not the case with you, but subconsciously, it may be.

Sit alone with the worst amp you own, and twiddle with the strat, trying different bends, slides and licks until you get something that sounds good. Focus on what your doing right, and expound on that.

The strat is a different beast.

Plug into a good amp with TONS of mid and play it out. Your best friend will always be the key of A, D, and E with a strat. I hate to pick the obvious keys, but almost every strat I've ever played sounded best on the 10th fret (Albeit that could be my own personal preference.)

The last thing to remember is the quality of the strat. Wood/Finish/Neck/Frets/Pickups make the biggest difference in tone. Your playing style will directly affect what you know sounds good. So work with that.

Lastly, Worse case scenario, raise the pickups, that will pick up more vibration, and thus you get more depth.

Strats aren't exactly made for depth, but it is acheivable. After all, Clapton and Hendrix didn't just pick it up and say, "Lets go!" Hell, Blackie was made out of the best parts of 3 guitars.

Best of luck to ya

[bjjp2]

I think my problem with strats has always been that I have an extremely light touch with both hands. This isn't something I tried to develop--just turned out that way, and I've only recently come to realize how different I play from most other rock players I meet. Strats seem to sound best (at least for rock and blues) with hard picking and bending, a la Jimi and SRV.

[j2b4o]

if you raise the pickups too much you will kill sustain because of the magnetic pull. I have my pups relatively low and get great sustain. the settings on the amp are paramount.

[JPF]

I'd keep the pups on the lower side, raise the action a bit with slight relief from the trussrod, set up with 10s or 11s, and fine-tune the amp from there.

[Lance]

I think my problem with strats has always been that I have an extremely light touch with both hands. This isn't something I tried to develop--just turned out that way, and I've only recently come to realize how different I play from most other rock players I meet. Strats seem to sound best (at least for rock and blues) with hard picking and bending, a la Jimi and SRV.


Ding, ding, ding!!! What he said. I played on dual bucker guits for a long time before I got a decent strat. I kept wondering why it doesn't sound like SRV, and have that killer tone! The thing about most strats I've played, is that you gotta beat those tones out of 'em. Watch SRV's right hand. At time, he's as gentle as a kitten with the soft touch. But, when it starts really putting out those killer squaks & squeals you'll notice he's being pretty heavy handed. I've gotten those tones out of a cheapo strat at Guitar Center that had a price tag of $169.00! Granted, it was plugged into a JVM stack, but...

[jcs]

keith richards once said gibsons have TOO much sustain LOL!

i agree set up is crucial and the right amp and a compressor or quality od pedal really add a lot as well.

strats vary so darn much, maybe you need to go out and try at least 30-40 different ones.

i'm lucky i have a tokai tst-62 and an 80s japan fender strat that work very well for me,,,,,i've played several 50s-60s strats that werent much better than either of these.

i've got a friend with a modded usa peavey strat that plays and sustains very well i might add (though its not my fav tonewise).

[Atmospheric]

Strats have more individual adjustments than any other guitar. I think that I once counted 36 or 38 individual adjustments (including things like the trem claw and tuners).

I once read that the guy in the Fixx carried a small screwdriver with him for an ENTIRE YEAR until he got the position 4 quack sound the way he wanted it. I can believe it.

Also, "plinkiness" can also be due to insufficient angle of the strings over the nut, especially on the treble side. There's a very particular way to string a strat in order to normalize the angle of the strings over the nut. It's hard to describe. Have someone show you. You want the 6th string to have hardly any turns around the post, gradually add more turns until the 1st goes all the way down to the bottom. What makes that hard is that you have to measure and precut the string before you feed it into the center of the tuner. I use distance between tuners as a ruler for that.

Also, string tree placement matters a LOT.

Again, I've found strats to be incredibly sensitive to any adjustment. That's one reason I love them so much. When you get them right, they are really right and highly personal. I always feel at my best playing my strat.

The Fender recommended PU heights are a great place to start, but most guys end up running the neck PU lower on the bass side (I do). I use a straight edge to get the relative heights in line.

There's just a ton of stuff to learn on a strat. It has a way of separating the men from the boys.

[Redhouse-Blues]

I would check over the Strat and make sure it is at least setup to Fender specs. http://www.fender.com/support/stratocaster.php You can tweak it after that. If after that it still sounds like ass and it's not your playing, take it someone for a good setup. I have yet to find a Strat or any guitar I couldn't play after setting it up.

[rongtr]

I think my problem with strats has always been that I have an extremely light touch with both hands. This isn't something I tried to develop--just turned out that way, and I've only recently come to realize how different I play from most other rock players I meet. Strats seem to sound best (at least for rock and blues) with hard picking and bending, a la Jimi and SRV.

Actually, I have a light touch and can get a great sound out of a strat. The key to a strat is playing cleanly. Unlike a Gibson, which is a little more forgiving, every little sound you make with your fingers shows up on a Strat (on a tele, too, for that matter).Playing a Fender style guitar, if only for a while, will really clean up your technique.

[rockstarjay]

put 10's or 11's on them, set the bridge pickup high E string a nickel away from the polepeice (when fretted at the last fret). Adjust the neck pup and tilt the bridge pickup to match the volume, put the middle one down low.

Float your bridge with 3 springs, a little neck relief, AND TURN THE THING LOUD! Turn your bass and treble down on your amp, so you get more mids. The strat is best when it completes the organic feedback loop from a tube amp to the player, at stage volumes, with a band. Turn it up, Tear it up.

[xzzy]

set the bridge pickup high E string a nickel away from the polepeice (when fretted at the last fret).

I hated my strat until I did this (and it wasn't an overnight discovery, I wasted a lot of time thinking I would improve things by moving the pickup away from the string). It seems like the closer you get that pole to the high E, the better the sound gets.

Float your bridge with 3 springs, a little neck relief, AND TURN THE THING LOUD!

Another thing that took me a year to figure out. I had the bridge resting flat on the guitar (whammy bars are for posers is what my teenage self claimed) and there was zero depth to the tone. A veteran guitarist eventually set me straight.

If only all this information was printed in the pamphlet that came with the guitar. ;)

Someday I'd like to see some brainy scientist guy analyze the tones a strat makes, and describe why all the fiddly little adjustments have the effect they do.

[rockstarjay]

Someday I'd like to see some brainy scientist guy analyze the tones a strat makes, and describe why all the fiddly little adjustments have the effect they do.

Umm... have you been to the guitar section of the site? :)

I got lucky in the beginning and got 3 years of free setups with my guitar and dude did it all for me. When I moved to California it got hectic for a while till I figured it out.

[mikefair]

Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts on this. It's really been helpful. The only reason I've even kept up the hunt is because (in my opinon) Les Pauls, SGs, 335s sound like they sound. Strats, to me, sound like the guy that's playing them. No electric guitar does cleans like they do.

It's not like I've not had positive experiences with them because I have. I was running sound for a band you hear on the classic rock station 2 or 3 times a week (at a wedding reception, for crissakes). They were playing at brain rattling volume. The bride comes up to me during the 3rd set and says, You've GOT to tell them to turn down. I tried. I went to one of the guitar players and tried to tell him. He had been drinking Makers Mark in pint glasses all night. He hands me his Strat and says, you wanna play? Well, screw the hundred dollars. I wanted to play with this band! He was playing through some kind of Mesa Boogie combo. I didn't dare touch a knob or foot switch and just tried to work it with the volume knob on the guitar. I probably never got above 4 on the guitar volume but this thing was SINGING.

Hendrix at Monterey, Music From Big Pink, Wish You Were Here, the Superfly soundtrack, Derek and the Dominoes. That's why I have a love affair with these things. That's why the hunt continues.

[paulg]

Wah pedal, fuzzface and a Marshall 100 stack. Get the picture?

[Ken Ho]

Plug into a Big Muff Pi and an MXR compressor, and you get Gilmour sustain in no time. Seriously !! That's what he does.
Eric Johnson ?? I'm no expert, but CRANKED amps and lots of delay are mentioned frequently.
I treid STarts too, and plink city fo rme too, unless I changed a whole bunch of settings and turned sh1t up way too loud.
An LP will give up it's tone without such a struggle.

[Strat]

keep the vol about 8 on the strat, lower the pu's and no lighter than 10's

[stubbyJ]

Don't know if it has been mentioned, but I find that speaker cabs make a Big difference.

When I play all my guitars through the same amp, but different speaker cabs, meaning 1x12, 2x12, 4x12, I find that the strat makes the most improvement as the speaker number increase, especially the 4x12.

Through the 4x12, the neck and middle positions are given the depth and bass they need to become RAWK. For some reason it just sounds more stratty to me.

Don't know if there is anything to this, but this is what I have found.

I like my pauls and teles through anything, but much prefer the strat through the 4x12.

[Shiny_Beast]

Most of the stuff has been covered.

Are you fretting well with your left hand?

An amp with some good low end may be needed.

You might want to go up a gauge in strings, at least until you start coaxing the tones you want out of it.

Not all strats are created equal. I'd lean towards getting some kind of late 50s early 60s repro, like the players you mentioned.

[xzzy]

Umm... have you been to the guitar section of the site? :)

I was thinking more along the lines of formulas and math and acoustic analysis. If the guitar section has something like that.. feel free to point it out. ;)

[Shane Sanders]

One thing that might help is to be judicious about how much you let the trem float. I've seen a lot of strats that you could probably pull up on the bar and raise the pitch nearly a fifth (which would break strings anyway). That's too much of an angle, imo. I think if you set the springs so that you can comfortably pull up a minor third or less, you'll find that the strings are making better contact with the saddles and it'll start to sound better.

I only use my whammy for subtle chord flutters and maybe a whole step or half step bend up/down here and there on really important single notes in a melody.

[mikefair]

The mysteries of the world are starting to reveal themselves.

[kimock]

I hated my strat until I did this (and it wasn't an overnight discovery, I wasted a lot of time thinking I would improve things by moving the pickup away from the string). It seems like the closer you get that pole to the high E, the better the sound gets.



That's true enough, but a little tricky in practice, because to make the pickup height adjustment really work for you, you need to raise the action as well.
Relative pickup height notwithstanding, if your action is low, like right down on the deck, as you go up the fingerboard, you just get less and less string vibrating, and the guitar will sound thinner and plinkier and weaker in the high register.

If you can stand to raise the action some, you'll see that going up the neck is bringing the string much closer to the pickup the higher you go.
You're effectively raising the pickup height for every fret you go up, and lowering it every fret you go down.

So you get a nice clean lower register thing happening and progressively more slamming performance from the amp the higher you play on the guitar as you close that gap from the string to the pickup that the action height introduced, which is probably what a lot of folks are looking for.
With the action down, the guitar is going to be loudest wherever the most string is ringing, and that will be first position, and progressively weaker up the neck.
A lousy formula for the 'lead guitar' routine.

So overall to get the Strat thing going, the pickup height by itself is relatively meaningless if you can't get the string up high enough to take advantage of the 'gain in reserve' available at the top of the neck as you bring the string progressively closer to the pickup with every fret you ascend.

If you don't have that going on, the Strat thing can be pretty weak.

[Baxtercat]

...ooo, I like that. Very astute observation.

[kevinhifi]

I'm generally a high action player because I'm pretty aggressive with my picking attack. I always find that my guitars sound much better when I get the action up above a certain level, especially my strat. kimock's point is probably why.

As far as the plink sound, rolling down the tone knob a hair turns my strat bridge pickup from plink to smooth and well-balanced...and improves the sustain quite a bit.

[mike shaw]

One thing to remember that Strat pup's should be set fairly low in order to get the best tone. Too high and you get the pup magnets 'deadening' the strings vibration. The flip side is that with a lower pup comes lower volume. If you use a clean boost or a light OD you can bump up the signal and get a great natural sound.

[uOpt]

The key to Strats is that you don't try to run even remotely with the same amp and amp settings. Trying something 4x10, not your Marshall cab. Get a GE-7, or better two GE-7s before and after whatever overdrive you use.

Then, it is important to understand that, although intuition says the contrary, a treble booster makes your sound mellower and fuller for crunchy sounds. Try it, but no junk. Yeah it is a brutal rippoff to pay $120 for a single Germanium transistor. It's the price tag on entry to the Strat club.

Get an echo, or two, and use it "inaudibly" to just thicken up the sound.

For people coming from other guitars there's also the "source of problem" aspect: Strats aren't that sensitive to body wood quality, not even which wood it is. It is not like a Les Paul where you just play 20 frames, pick the best then insert your favorite pickups. Strats are very sensitive to necks and neck construction. A double truss rod (or other heavy rod) instantly kills any hope for a nice mellow sounding Strat (might still be good for heavier things). The tremolo is important, a rolled steel tremolo is much softer and rounder than a zinc tremolo.

Try pure nickel strings, and thick enough. It really helps driving out a nice crunch if you have at least medium strings.

[rockstarjay]

Trying something 4x10, not your Marshall cab.

IMO Strats need 12's for the mids to take advantage of their unique low end. Full stack of 12's highly recommended (avoid g12 T 75's and similar "Treble cone" speakers though).

Strats are very sensitive to necks and neck construction.

True. Disabling the micro tilt makes a huge difference too.

Strats aren't that sensitive to body wood quality

I notice a huge difference between alder and ash. Especially with 10 or 11 guage strings on them.

Yeah it is a brutal rippoff to pay $120 for a single Germanium transistor.

$50 gets you a bad monkey which is a surprisingly good pedal. In general i think strats work better with vintage style amps, slamming the front end with a booster for lead boosts. Amps with built in distortion generally want humbuckers.

My rig is wah ---> distortion ---> driver ---> Full Stack. Simple yet the guitar itself makes the sonic possibilities pretty limitless.

[xzzy]

So overall to get the Strat thing going, the pickup height by itself is relatively meaningless if you can't get the string up high enough to take advantage of the 'gain in reserve' available at the top of the neck as you bring the string progressively closer to the pickup with every fret you ascend.

I looked into this over the weekend, and it appears my strat is set up like this, because the high E certainly feels louder the further up the fretboard I go.

Apparently without realizing what I was doing I stumbled into it. ;) It's been set up like this for years, was the result of much adjusting of screws and once I got happy with it I just left it where it is.

[mikefair]

If you can stand to raise the action some, you'll see that going up the neck is bringing the string much closer to the pickup the higher you go.
You're effectively raising the pickup height for every fret you go up, and lowering it every fret you go down.



Ah ha! Sometimes the most obvious things are the hardest to see.

[Lennox Lewis]

This thread has been a great read. I have always had a Strat, but never really got into it, being a Les Paul player since I was young. I have 3 now and want to really delve into Strats much more. Not to hijack, but does anyone have an effective way to switch between Strat and LP at a show? I've noticed several replies in this thread saying not to use the same amps etc. But what about using both at a gig?

[gainiac]

I hate to pick the obvious keys, but almost every strat I've ever played sounded best on the 10th fret (Albeit that could be my own personal preference.)



I prefer C#, F# and find A kinda weak.

:banana

:rockin

[Who?]

Big strings (at least 10's), fairly tall action, and a heavy pick (Dunlop Jazz III's are nice). Then play it like you mean it.

[old goat]

The key to sustain with the strat is vibrato with the left hand. Watch a video of BB King (yeah I know it's not a strat). You can do it by shaking the hand while the fretting finger stays put--like a classical violinist, or by doing mini bends--the fretting finger moves back and forth slightly across the finger board. The latter method gives more sustain than the former, but it doesn't work on the high E--you go off the edge of the finger board. (One of these days I might try a wider neck with the extra width all past the high E.) If you're good you can add the vibrato to an already bent note, but that's harder to do.

[kevinhifi]

The key to sustain with the strat is vibrato with the left hand. Watch a video of BB King (yeah I know it's not a strat). You can do it by shaking the hand while the fretting finger stays put--like a classical violinist, or by doing mini bends--the fretting finger moves back and forth slightly across the finger board. The latter method gives more sustain than the former, but it doesn't work on the high E--you go off the edge of the finger board. (One of these days I might try a wider neck with the extra width all past the high E.) If you're good you can add the vibrato to an already bent note, but that's harder to do.

David Gilmour is one of the masters of this technique on a Strat. He'll do it with the whammy bar too...takes a really light touch and, in his case, a really tight short whammy bar.