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View Full Version : Hardwire Reverb v Lexicon MPX100 Reverb


Clifford-D
07-29-2009, 11:59 AM
What's the differences? What do you like better?

I have the MPX100 and use it for the hall reverb. I love this reverb, it's different in some way.
This requires an AC power supply that I have worked out enough that it's not such a big hassle, but it is.

The MPX100 hall is so amazingly sweet. Can't put it in words. Bill Frisell uses the MPX100, so if you like his verbs...

So,
How does the Hardwire Reverb w/Lexicon verb stack up? That's my big question. Sound is the bottom line, the convienence is secondary.
Is it in the ballpark? Does it exceed the MPX? That would be great. Or, does it fail? That is also very important to know.


I leave it to your brilliant opinions

- that reverse reverb on the Hardwire is too much, makes your guitar sound like a cello. Plus "real" true bypass.

DemoColorScheme
07-29-2009, 01:37 PM
I've heard from a friend of mine in Canada that it isn't even close ..
"FYI, digitech and lexicon are both owned by Harmon International and all the original Lexicon engineers that developed the PCM70, PCM42 delay and 480L Reverb were let go from the company. Basically Harmon owns the patents on the Lexi algorithms.

All the units that Lexicon (Harmon) has put out on the market sound like shit and nothing remotely like the original Lexicon sound.

That digitech hardwire reverb pedal that has the lexicon logo on the top and claims to use lexicon algorithms is hilarious! It's a peice of junk and sounds nothing at all like anything originally made by Lexicon. Not even in the same vein in a cheaper mmore lo-fi way...just really..nothing anything Lexicon would have had anything to do with."
She knows her stuff.

Unadan
07-29-2009, 01:47 PM
I've heard from a friend of mine in Canada that it isn't even close ..
"FYI, digitech and lexicon are both owned by Harmon International and all the original Lexicon engineers that developed the PCM70, PCM42 delay and 480L Reverb were let go from the company. Basically Harmon owns the patents on the Lexi algorithms.

All the units that Lexicon (Harmon) has put out on the market sound like shit and nothing remotely like the original Lexicon sound.

That digitech hardwire reverb pedal that has the lexicon logo on the top and claims to use lexicon algorithms is hilarious! It's a peice of junk and sounds nothing at all like anything originally made by Lexicon. Not even in the same vein in a cheaper mmore lo-fi way...just really..nothing anything Lexicon would have had anything to do with."
She knows her stuff.

-Who exactly are you quoting and where did they get this inside information from? Lastly, I question whether the Hardwire reverb is a "piece of junk." Most of the reviews I've seen here at TGP have been extremely positive towards the Hardwire line. Even if it is true that it doesn't sound like a Lexicon product that does not equate to "junk."

buddaman71
07-29-2009, 02:08 PM
Considering that most original, pre-Harmon Lexicon units were $ 2500 to $3500 back in the early 90's, I don't understand why anyone would think that a $ 129 SHOULD sound as good...

doesn't mean the HW Verb sucks, it's just not an even comparison.

Clifford-D
07-29-2009, 02:39 PM
Very interesting, thanks

any more thoughts

forum_crawler
07-29-2009, 02:49 PM
I would suggest that you try one out. I own one and I find it to be the least intrusive reverb pedal I have tried thus far. I am not a spring reverb guy, I like plate verb, and since I can't bring a real plate reverb with me when I gig and practice, I find the RV-7 to be the next thing.

My guess is that if you are recording in a studio then you would care for quality of the expensive units, but while gigging and rehearsing it would be overkill. But that doesn't mean you should sacrifice good tones because of practicallity.

I would like to see what gear this person who believes the RV-7 to be junk is playing...

DemoColorScheme
07-29-2009, 03:03 PM
-Who exactly are you quoting and where did they get this inside information from? Lastly, I question whether the Hardwire reverb is a "piece of junk." Most of the reviews I've seen here at TGP have been extremely positive towards the Hardwire line. Even if it is true that it doesn't sound like a Lexicon product that does not equate to "junk."
As I've said, a friend from Canada, Kristine Livingston. She does know here stuff. We were discussing reverb a while ago and we were talking about modulated reverb and how the only stompbox that does this well is the RV-5 and that it has the Hardwire's beat. She was going on about the Lexicon PCM-70 and how it is the top-end of modulated reverb.

This is the rest of the message:
"The best modulated reverb in a rack is by far one of the lexicon PCM 70 units. The 81 and 91 are ok but not even close to the sound of the 70.

If you want more than reverb, the eventide eclipse is the best thing for an all rounder but it lacks some mojo and is a little sterile at times compared to the Lexicon.

(quote from above about the Hardwire Reverb - inserted here)

The original Lexicon engineer/designer David Greisinger was the one who thought up the idea to add modulation to the reverb tail to smooth out the decay of the individual echoes in the reverb tail, adding color and movement at the same time. He was a brilliant scientist from Stanford University in the USA. His brainchild creations were the Lexicon 224 reverb processor and the PCM70 Reverb + Multieffects Processor.

I can tell you that the Modulate setting on the RV-5 is based completely on the Random Hall algorithm from the Lexicon 224 and PCM70. I can make my PCM70 sound exactly like your RV-5 but with a thousand times more dimension and stereo imaging, detail and depth. Oh...also, you can make the reverb decay longer and add pre-delay to the front end of it using the PCM70. I would grab one off ebay before they are all gone. This item was discontinued in 1988. It is the best reverb rack ever made. Just ask peter Gabriel, Eno, U2, Radiohead, Flood, Billy Corgan....etc.

Ever heard a U2 record? How about jeff buckley......it's the reverb unit on their lead vocal tracks. Even Celine Dion uses it on her vocals and Sarah McLachlan and Sinead....Jonis from Sigur Ros uses the 960L which is the updated version of the 480L. Still old Lexicon technology."
I bet it's decent, the Hardwire Reverb, but I doubt it's truly in the range of the true Lexicon material, like the poster of the topic basically asked.

DemoColorScheme
07-29-2009, 03:06 PM
I would like to see what gear this person who believes the RV-7 to be junk is playing...
She's got high-end gear, Lexicon, Eventide racks, some boutique stomps etc.
She's definitely one that likes the best of the best.

But of course, I didn't say this, let's be clear. I very much agree with taking a stomp box on the road and doing your thing. I would love to have a Lexicon PCM-70 but I would still take my RV-5 on the road and never the Lexicon.

forum_crawler
07-29-2009, 03:15 PM
She's got high-end gear, Lexicon, Eventide racks, some boutique stomps etc.
She's definitely one that likes the best of the best.


That is interesting, and I guess it does come down to taste. For instace, the Edge has massive racks, yet I can't stand his tone. All you hear is effects and very little guitar playing... Much like many of the guitarists from the 80's who played in 'metal' bands. Massive racks with all the fancy gear yet some would consider their tone to be bad....

I for one like my reverb to be much like a hint of spice on my tone, not the main flavour. I also find that it works best when combined with other types of modulation for which I have other pedals...

DemoColorScheme
07-29-2009, 03:19 PM
That is interesting, and I guess it does come down to taste. For instace, the Edge has massive racks, yet I can't stand his tone. All you hear is effects and very little guitar playing... Much like many of the guitarists from the 80's who played in 'metal' bands. Massive racks with all the fancy gear yet some would consider their tone to be bad....

I for one like my reverb to be much like a hint of spice on my tone, not the main flavour. I also find that it works best when combined with other types of modulation for which I have other pedals...
To each is own, of course. I'm one for the ambient, post-rock/metal, shoegaze, etc. side of things. So that means that reverb is huge deal for me and not just another little hint of spice, though I use that as well for more 'normal' stuff. I always have the reverb on my Twin Reverb at 3 to just fill it up a bit.

Oh, personally, I can't stand the Edge but he's got some cool stuff going on, sometimes. This coming from the fact that I just love delays and reverbs + lush modulation.

Eagle1
07-29-2009, 03:55 PM
Considering that most original, pre-Harmon Lexicon units were $ 2500 to $3500 back in the early 90's, I don't understand why anyone would think that a $ 129 SHOULD sound as good...

doesn't mean the HW Verb sucks, it's just not an even comparison.
But we are talking about the MPX100/110 that costs less s/h and still wipes the floor with all reverb pedals including (unfortunately ) the HW.

Clifford-D
07-29-2009, 04:29 PM
But we are talking about the MPX100/110 that costs less s/h and still wipes the floor with all reverb pedals including (unfortunately ) the HW.
Thank you for pointing that out about it being the MPX100 (mine cost $125).

And since this is my thread (op) I would like to say this not for vocals, this is for guitar.

And these inexpensive Lexicon units are again the verb of choice for two of my favorite guitarists. Steve Kimock uses an LXP1 (modded) and Bill Frisell uses the MPX100.

So please consider the guitar application. :)


I just had hopes the HW would be comparable, so far it sounds like it isn't. Bummer

I mean putting the Lexicon logo on the pedal I guess is just not enough. Seems misleading.

DemoColorScheme
07-29-2009, 04:32 PM
Thank you for pointing that out.

And since this is my thread (op) I would like to say this not for vocals, this is for guitar.

So please consider the guitar application. :)
Yes, I was, personally, talking about the guitar application. Just to be clear.

peridot1
07-29-2009, 04:38 PM
That digitech hardwire reverb pedal that has the lexicon logo on the top and claims to use lexicon algorithms is hilarious! It's a peice of junk and sounds nothing at all like anything originally made by Lexicon. Not even in the same vein in a cheaper mmore lo-fi way...just really..nothing anything Lexicon would have had anything to do with."

I think this last paragraph went too far. I have the Lexicon MPX1 which has a dedicated chip for reverb.. and the Hardwire RV-7. Granted the verb on the MPX1 is more impressive but I really like the plate/gated/hall settings on the Hardwire. Maybe she's comparing it to the high end $2000 rack units but as far as I know the MPX1 is no slouch.

Now I'm no expert and don't work for digitech (or anyone. No one is going to hire a rookie that no one listens to to pimp their pedals) but I say a little exaggeration on this one. If correct than all reverb pedals are junk compared.

DemoColorScheme
07-29-2009, 04:42 PM
I think this last paragraph went too far. I have the Lexicon MPX1 which has a dedicated chip for reverb.. and the Hardwire RV-7. Granted the verb on the MPX1 is more impressive but I really like the plate/gated/hall settings on the Hardwire. Maybe she's comparing it to the high end $2000 rack units but as far as I know the MPX1 is no slouch.

Now I'm no expert and don't work for digitech (or anyone. No one is going to hire a rookie that no one listens to to pimp their pedals) but I say a little exaggeration on this one. If correct than all reverb pedals are junk compared.
Agreed. She can be a bit .. harsh and snobbish at times but that's because she's probably used to working with the high-end rack gear - so that might explain.

GovernorSilver
07-29-2009, 04:42 PM
splatt is a well-known Lexicon user and posted some thoughts on the Lexicon reverbs here before. He thinks the current generation tc electronic reverb pedal is actually pretty decent.

GoofyDawg
07-29-2009, 04:50 PM
I don't think any stomp reverb is going to compare to a rack. That said, looking at it from a practicality standpoint, the RV-7 is a great utility reverb, and a great compromise for the $149 price.

Clifford-D
07-29-2009, 05:03 PM
Price and convienence are secondary to the "best" Lexicon verb.

If that turns out to be the rackmount, so be it.

I don't think size has that much to do with it.

Clifford-D
07-29-2009, 05:04 PM
splatt is a well-known Lexicon user and posted some thoughts on the Lexicon reverbs here before. He thinks the current generation tc electronic reverb pedal is actually pretty decent.
Cool, another artist that uses Lex verb

Do you know what he uses?

GovernorSilver
07-29-2009, 05:20 PM
Cool, another artist that uses Lex verb

Do you know what he uses?

According to this, he's still using a PCM-80:

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showpost.php?p=6266864&postcount=183

I guess his post approving the tc pedal was one of the deleted ones.

Unadan
07-29-2009, 06:18 PM
The TC is $249 so it better be good.

Eagle1
07-30-2009, 02:56 AM
splatt is a well-known Lexicon user and posted some thoughts on the Lexicon reverbs here before. He thinks the current generation tc electronic reverb pedal is actually pretty decent.
I've A/B them and the TC is pretty good until you switch on the MPX .It's just better.

Clifford-D
07-30-2009, 09:02 AM
This makes me happy since I have the MPX100


Still a big bummer about the Hardwire not being comparable.

The most important thing is tone. So I will continue using the MPX100
and hassle with the AC power pac.

But tone is worth it.

monacosis
07-30-2009, 09:18 AM
count me firmly in the MPX100/110 camp. the power supply is a hassle to be sure but it is a fantastic processor for guitar!

i am picking up a second one to use in series with one of them handling modulation and the other handling verbs and delays. to the best of my knowledge, the only way to get a good modulation sound is to crank the Mix which, of course, futzes your perfect delay mix.

oh.. and it is one of the very few inexpensive rack boxes that can deal with an instument-level signal. (not fond of FX loops here)

mike

GovernorSilver
07-30-2009, 10:32 AM
I've A/B them and the TC is pretty good until you switch on the MPX .It's just better.

I figured it would be, but for splatt to say something nice about a non-Lexicon reverb pedal was an event in and of itself. :D

The online literature on the MPX series mentions DAW integration. How are the effects parameters controlled from the DAW? Is it by MIDI?

Clifford-D
07-30-2009, 02:21 PM
I figured it would be, but for splatt to say something nice about a non-Lexicon reverb pedal was an event in and of itself. :D

The online literature on the MPX series mentions DAW integration. How are the effects parameters controlled from the DAW? Is it by MIDI?
What is DAW?
(duel analog waveform?)

GovernorSilver
07-30-2009, 03:44 PM
What is DAW?
(duel analog waveform?)

Digital Audio Workstation. Examples: Pro Tools, Sonar, Logic, Cubase

A Lexicon MX series (sorry, that's what I meant when I said "MPX series") unit can appear within a DAW as a plugin.

I'm curious about the realtime parameter control as this was a strong point in older Lexicon units. splatt's PCM-42 had control voltage inputs for this purpose. I believe he uses MIDI for parameter control on the PCM-80.

The MX-300 and MX-400 have MIDI input jacks, so those might be controllable in realtime from a MIDI footpedal. The MX-200 does not have MIDI jacks.

orogeny
07-30-2009, 05:55 PM
someone send me a hardwire reverb and i'll tell you :D

dig the lexicon rack. i have it (mostly use it for the pa, but it kicks ass for guitar). meanwhile, my amp's verb has done 'the' thing for me once i took my rottweiler to get modded by jimmy somma. . . . . awesome.

Clifford-D
07-30-2009, 08:01 PM
someone send me a hardwire reverb and i'll tell you :D

dig the lexicon rack. i have it (mostly use it for the pa, but it kicks ass for guitar). meanwhile, my amp's verb has done 'the' thing for me once i took my rottweiler to get modded by jimmy somma. . . . . awesome.
right on, it's in the mail. :)

Not one person likes the Hardwire over the MPX100 rack that is a hassle with the AC powerpac and can't go on the floorboard.

Man that's got to be some kind of love.

GovernorSilver
07-31-2009, 10:19 AM
right on, it's in the mail. :)

Not one person likes the Hardwire over the MPX100 rack that is a hassle with the AC powerpac and can't go on the floorboard.

Man that's got to be some kind of love.

I saw one person on this thread.

In the end, it's really about whether you'll be happy with your Hardwire, not what the loyalists are saying. ;)

peridot1
07-31-2009, 04:42 PM
Well it wasn't me. Never played the MPX100 but the MPX1 is a clear winner. But it's a $750 rack they don't make anymore.

To me it's whether you record or play live. Reverb is a subtle ambient effect for me that can be best appreciated in a studio. The hardwire can compete with most pedals though not the best. Now I know hardwire claims it uses lexicon algorithms so it's fair game. But as a pedal it's not junk.

Dajbro
07-31-2009, 06:00 PM
Well, I couldn't resist. I saw an MPX 110 for $50 on C.L. and just brought it home. I like what I'm hearing so far.