Left Hand "Black" Guitarists

[SybianRiot]

As a lefty, I am constantly on the lookout for other lefties when watching music on the tube. It seems I see a lot more lefty "black" players than white,which makes me wonder, is does this reflect a higher incidence of left-handedness in "blacks" than whites? Any thoughts? Just curious, because arguably the greatest electric guitarist of all time in terms of pioneering creativity, was a left handed black man.

[Marshalls Law]

:facepalm:facepalm:facepalm

[jazzandmetal?]

I don't know the definitive answer, but I would say no.

[Frankee]

This should go well, dontcha think?

[Tone Loco]

As a lefty, I am constantly on the lookout for other lefties when watching music on the tube. It seems I see a lot more lefty "black" players than white,which makes me wonder, is does this reflect a higher incidence of left-handedness in "blacks" than whites? Any thoughts? Just curious, because arguably the greatest electric guitarist of all time in terms of pioneering creativity, was a left handed black man.

I thought Charlie Christian was right handed.

[zzmoore]

Did anybody call the men in white suits yet???

[SybianRiot]

Some very curious responses. Just watch soul/RandB groups and you will notice a shitload of lefties compared to typically "white" groups. No white coats here. Are you guys just facadically offended by any concept of genetic variance? I was not expecting this response but,then again, I never do.

[teleman55]

I dunno. I play guitar in a soul/r&b group and I'm left-handed. But I'm white. Go figure. Maybe the funk thang and left-handed go together 'cause that's always come easy for me.

[gopherbroke]

You don't have to apologize, geesh. I'm a white lefty. I think UB40 has two black lefties.

[john b]

A friend of mine is a lefty. He plays wicked old-timey claw hammer banjo and is a nice Jewish boy from New York. Does this disprove your theory?

[SybianRiot]

Like gopherbroke said "two black lefties". What are the odds. I am not claiming predominance,just makin' an observation.

[jpastras]

Thing is, you're really asking if the incidence of left-handedness is greater in black people than other people. Let me assure you: the Gear Page is probably the very last place you'd want to go to ask people for any empirical information of any kind.

Your question has a lot to do with statistics,and nothing to do with anything specifically gear-page related.

Rock on!

[Polynitro]

why is "black" in quotes?

[stevieboy]

100% of all black US Presidents have been left handed, compared to only 16% of white US Presidents.

(Five of the last seven presidents, however, have been left handed.)

This post refers only to handed, not winged.

[guzman]

Some serious knowledge and theories in here boys !

[Mark 63]

At the risk of seeming facadical, aren't the 2 southpaws in UB40 in fact white?

[SouthpawGuy]

The Campbell brothers from UB40 ....

http://www.jerrysleftyguitars.com/left_handed_artists/UB40.jpg

[whitehall]

.. I see school is still out....

[CharAznable]

I think it's a valid question, and the fact that there are white lefties doesn't disprove the hypothesis that there might be proportionally more black lefties than white lefties.

But is the hypothesis true?

I have no idea. I'm sure some scientist somewhere has written a paper about it but I can't be bothered to look.

[wingwalker]

why is "black" in quotes?

Thats what I want to know!

[monstermike]

With the quotes, I thought this thread was going to be about lefty guitarists who played black guitars...

[SybianRiot]

The quotes around black are because I knew I was bringing up a touchy subject (that being race, even if without political or social implications) in a forum that has a large number of oversensitive psuedo-intellectuals, like me. There are various terms people prefer to use to describe people of color, negroes, blacks, African-Americans, etc. I was only pointing out by using quotes that, a)I have some understanding of this fact and, b) I understand that the entire notion of "race" is a social construct of sorts. For example while Barack Obama is most assuredly African-American in the most literal sense of the word, I have a hard time whole-heartedly agreeing that he is "black", being that he is multi-racial and was raised by "white" (those damn quotes again) people in a state virtually devoid of any cultural influence which might be described as "black" by even the loosest definition of same(which I will leave to the reader).
So that is why I used the "quotes". Back on subject, I don't really pay any attention to UB40 so I was taking someone else's word for it. I appreciate the few who gave constructive responses to a thread which is starting to look like it was started as "troll-bait", but was certainly not.

[Tone Loco]

At the risk of seeming facadical... what does "facadical" mean? Doesn't seem to be an english word and from the context I still don't get what it means in either of the posts that use it here. I don't come up with anything in the urban dictionary for it either, is it a slang word in some part of the country? Just curious.

[SybianRiot]

facadical- having the characteristics of a facade. ex. His feigned horror at the dirty joke must have been facadical and inspired by the presence of the priest because on any other day, he'd have laugh his ass off.

And, yeah, I am pretty sure I made it up. I can do that because I am a free man living on August 1, 2009. You do realize that all words were once made-up words, right?

:boxer Peace-out

[SybianRiot]

I am not looking for any particular answer, just thoughts. I think you may have a point, of sorts. However, given other realities, I think conformation is just as highly valued in black culture as it is in white.
Perhaps, and only perhaps, left-handed, right-brained blacks are more likely to seek out or be pointed in the direction of music as an outlet than whites of the same nature because in modern "black" culture many of the arts are thought of as feminine (painting, theater, poetry) and music generally plays a more predominant role in every day "black" life via the church. And yes, I know that one has to define ""black" culture" and "black" life", which will be different to everyone. That is why all of this is just speculative. My apologies to anyone whose nature causes them to be offended by just the thought of there being a cultural, or even genetic, basis for this difference, which I have only perceived and has not been established by any scientific study. Sucks to be you in such case.

[CharAznable]

I think "black" is a perfectly good term to distinguish the race as opposed to the culture.

After all, Phil Lynott is not African-American but Hendrix is.

[zztomato]

I am not looking for any particular answer, just thoughts. I think you may have a point, of sorts. However, given other realities, I think conformation is just as highly valued in black culture as it is in white.
Perhaps, and only perhaps, left-handed, right-brained blacks are more likely to seek out or be pointed in the direction of music as an outlet than whites of the same nature because in modern "black" culture many of the arts are thought of as feminine (painting, theater, poetry) and music generally plays a more predominant role in every day "black" life via the church. And yes, I know that one has to define ""black" culture" and "black" life", which will be different to everyone. That is why all of this is just speculative. My apologies to anyone whose nature causes them to be offended by just the thought of there being a cultural, or even genetic, basis for this difference, which I have only perceived and has not been established by any scientific study. Sucks to be you in such case.

Can I interest you in a bigger shovel? Keep digging though, I'm sure you'll find the bottom.

[SybianRiot]

I got an earth-mover, friend. But thanks for the offer of a shovel. It might come in handy when dispensing with the copious amounts BS that you seem to think is coming my way. I don't know why though. It is my intention that this thread steer entirely clear of any political or religious potholes.
I guess I'll go check Wiki for some insight...

[Tone Loco]

facadical- having the characteristics of a facade. ex. His feigned horror at the dirty joke must have been facadical and inspired by the presence of the priest because on any other day, he'd have laugh his ass off.

And, yeah, I am pretty sure I made it up. I can do that because I am a free man living on August 1, 2009. You do realize that all words were once made-up words, right?

:boxer Peace-out

Sure, you can make up anything you want. Probably works OK in spoken language but you might want to come up with a new spelling to get the sound across. It looks like it would be pronounced fuh-Kad-ick-uhl, which doesn't get across the connection to the word that sounds like fuh-Sod.

As far as the black lefty guitarists thing, the other three greatest pioneering black guitarists besides Hendrix would probably be Charley Christian, Wes Montgomery, and George Benson all of whom are/were right handed.

So if (big if) there are more lefty black guitarists in the black guitar player pool, than white lefty guitarists in the white pool, it wouldn't seem like it implies any superior ability. Maybe "black culture" points left handed boys into playing guitar for some reason but I don't see anybody other than Hendrix who would make the "culture" come to the conclusion that they'd be more likely to hit it big there than as a left handed person in any other career.

Is there some other famous/high visibility black guitarist(s) around who would have been popular when the current crop of lefties you see in these R&B bands were at an age where they'd be getting into music? Not Prince, he's right handed.... :dunno

[zztomato]

I got an earth-mover, friend. But thanks for the offer of a shovel. It might come in handy when dispensing with the copious amounts BS that you seem to think is coming my way. I don't know why though. It is my intention that this thread steer entirely clear of any political or religious potholes.
I guess I'll go check Wiki for some insight...

Relax man. I was just kidding.
My point was that there is just no way out of these types of discussions. As soon as you suggest that one race might be more this way than that way..... Well, there's a long list of examples why you just can't go there. You can shoot the sh#t on this kind of thing with your friends but on a public forum? No.

[stevieboy]

I think it's a plot against righty.


Okay seriously--I think you're basing the thread on a few observations, based on a few acts, not any real data. There are a couple of issues here. Are more black people left handed? And/or do more lefthanded blacks play lefthanded than lefthanded whites? I wouldn't begin to theorize about the latter. Someone could do a study, but I like to think people have more relevant issues to research.

As to the former, we all have access to something where you could do your own study, which while it might not pass a strict academic review might be at least somewhat revealing. Watch baseball. Keep a chart. Remember that there are switch hitters. Get back to us.

[Polynitro]

I would have put "facadically" in quotes being its a made up word.

[SybianRiot]

Interestingly, a google of "Facadical"(there,ya got yer quote) returned a definition from the Urban Dictionary of "booty-assed". How ironic...along with 228 other usages. I guess I didn't make it up.
Please understand, my observation has nothing to do with perceived talent of the players. Like I thought I'd made clear, I am a sinestra so I look for others, just like I tend to spot Fargens and Fuchs over, say Bogner or Vox. It also seems that a greater number of lefty players are black than white. I was wondering why this might be. But, apparently I am the only one who wondered. Thanks for playing guys.

[Zelmo]

facadical- having the characteristics of a facade. ex. His feigned horror at the dirty joke must have been facadical and inspired by the presence of the priest because on any other day, he'd have laugh his ass off.

Best 2 out of 3?

[devilrob1979]

I honestly thought this was about black metal guitarists. Funny stuff.

[Tone Loco]

Interestingly, a google of "Facadical"(there,ya got yer quote) returned a definition from the Urban Dictionary of "booty-assed".

Yeah I saw that definition of "booty-assed" too...


facadical isn't defined yet (http://www.urbandictionary.com/add.php?word=facadical), but these are close:

Booty-assed (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Booty-assed&defid=2618115) 1 thumb down (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:void%280%29) http://static0.urbandictionary.com/images/thumbsup.gif?1248390801 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:void%280%29) http://static3.urbandictionary.com/images/thumbsdown.gif?1248390801 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:void%280%29)
half-assed, facadical, not non-inauthentic

"not non-inauthentic ", now there's a good one...

Anyhow since they have no definition it looks like if you get in there real quick you can define it for yourself while you're still living on August 1, 2009 ;)

[devnulljp]

Well, you have a hypothesis, so now codify it, gather data and see if it stands.
Remember evidence isnt' the plural of anecdote. Confirmation bias is your enemy.

Offhand the only leftie guitarists I can think of are Jimi, Paul McCartney, Tomy Iommi, Albert King, and Kurt Cobain. I know there must be lots of others, but none spring immediately to mind. So that's 2 out of 5 in that sample.

I know Gary Moore, Steve Morse, Mark Knopfler, Billy Corgan, Paul Simon are all leftie but play rightie. They're also all white. And all guys. A few of them are bald(ing). I think they're all straight. They all have an "o" in their name.
So, we have balding straight white men whose name has an "o" in it are left handed but play guitar right handed? :D

[zzmoore]

I got an earth-mover, friend. But thanks for the offer of a shovel. It might come in handy when dispensing with the copious amounts BS that you seem to think is coming my way. I don't know why though. It is my intention that this thread steer entirely clear of any political or religious potholes.
I guess I'll go check Wiki for some insight...

Did you see a movie called, The Matrix? Remember in the beginning, when the "agent" tells the cop "I told you to wait for us" and the cop says "I think my men can handle one little girl". Then the agent looks at the cop and says "Your men are already dead". Kind of describes this thread here. It was already in bad water before you put it to pen.
Good Luck

[SybianRiot]

Love it. I fully expected to be school and entertained when I asked. You guys are the best!

[fisheric]

That is actually pretty interesting. I would be interested if anyone can find out if there is a higher percentage of a certain race that is left handed.

However if I had to guess I would say no, probably not.

[reno88]

eric gales is black and a lefty. i believe he has (or had) a family member playing with him on bass that is also a lefty. i saw them about 20 years ago. both had their guitars strung righty - wack!

fyi: african-american is a misnomer when used to identify someone by race. it's nonsense like "irregardless" or a nonsense term like "reverse discrimination".

[Strung Up]

I think it's a plot against righty.





LOL!

'facadical'? 'conformation'?

LOL!

I wonder what the racial breakdown is of accomplished right-handed guitarists who forced themselves to learn how to play left-handed as well, because they had a dream wherein Jimi told them to do so. I'm guessing it's a pretty small subset consisting of only Ernie Isley and MAYBE another 2 or 3 dozen guitarists, tops.

[Lerxt]

There are various terms people prefer to use to describe people of color, negroes, blacks, African-Americans, etc.

For example while Barack Obama is most assuredly African-American in the most literal sense of the word, I have a hard time whole-heartedly agreeing that he is "black", being that he is multi-racial and was raised by "white" (those damn quotes again) people in a state virtually devoid of any cultural influence which might be described as "black" by even the loosest definition of same(which I will leave to the reader).

:huh

[SybianRiot]

I take no credit for "conformation", but think it has a nice ring to it and will probably use it going foward. I also agree that African-American is a silly term to use as a race descriptor, much like "facadical" is a silly way to say insincere, but it has been adopted as such. As far as scratching one's head about my Obama commentary, to each his own. I am not criticizing him or saying that by being multi-racial he is any less or more likely to be a success or failure as a politician. I was simply pointing out why I put "black" in quotes to readers who expressed an interest.
It is clear however, from some of my reading today, that there is a genetic component to LHness and I wonder if that trait is in fact more prevalent among folks with a genetic makeup that is strongly influenced by an African lineage. Not counting on any answers here...will look elsewhere.

[devnulljp]

It is clear however, from some of my reading today, that there is a genetic component to LHness and I wonder if that trait is in fact more prevalent among folks with a genetic makeup that is strongly influenced by an African lineage. Not counting on any answers here...will look elsewhere.The %age of the popn that is lefty has been rising steadily since they stopped beating kids at school for being left-handed and somehow in league with the devil. With the decrease is superstitious prejudice has come an increase in acceptance -- it's rooted in the culture; the word "sinister" for example (seeing as you're now into etymology territory with booty-assed).
One thing that might lend credence to your hypothesis is the Geschwind theory that testosterone exposure in utero may result in a spike in right hemisphere activity and lead to a predisposition to being a leftie, and it has been suggested that Africans may have higher testosterone levels than Whites or Asians in general.
But it all sounds like so much waffle and hand waving to me without a shred of real data.
I was in a band in my teens that was 50:50 leftie/rightie, a work environment in my 20s that was 50:50, and I'm now outnumbered by lefties in my own household. I think they're taking over, amma loadin up ma shotgun :rotflmao

[SybianRiot]

Thanks for the insightful response. I have akways been interested in the whole "left hand path" stuff tied to lhedness.

[Neer]

I think it's a plot against righty.




Down with Righty!

[Polynitro]

a way to tell if someone is left or right minded is to get behind them and push them. Whichever foot they stick out to balance tells which side of the brain is dominant. And if they fall on thier ass don't pick them to play soccer.

[Frankee]

a way to tell if someone is left or right minded is to get behind them and push them. Whichever foot they stick out to balance tells which side of the brain is dominant. And if they fall on thier ass don't pick them to play soccer.

I'm pretty sure this is the way to determine wether you're a "goofy foot" surfer/skater/snowboarder.


As a matter of fact.....I'm positive.

[TwoTubMan]

The %age of the popn that is lefty has been rising steadily since they stopped beating kids at school for being left-handed and somehow in league with the devil. With the decrease is superstitious prejudice has come an increase in acceptance -- it's rooted in the culture; the word "sinister" for example (seeing as you're now into etymology territory with booty-assed).


Yep. My dad absolutely forbid my older brother from writing with his left hand. As a result, my brother is the biggest klutz I've ever met. He bowls leftie, he shoots a pistol or rifle leftie, but he writes, horribly, righty.

[A-Bone]

Here is some reading for the OP, assuming that SybianRiot is checking back on this thread:

http://books.google.com/books?id=ROYoKoUn1jUC&pg=PA76&lpg=PA76&dq=incidence+of+left+handedness+by+racial+group&source=bl&ots=aqEiAWLo0C&sig=9fbdyvtQrqx-e1IcyH7hCa45pYg&hl=en&ei=NCp1SsLrJY7SsgPNlP3LCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7#v=onepage&q=&f=false

[SybianRiot]

Thanks A-bone! And I am definitely checkin' in, 'cause I'm a narcissist like that.

[aeolian]

It may have something to do with the type of music. I'd wager than 99.9% of black classical guitarists play righty. It's the way the instrument is taught.

The keyboardist in my old band is left handed, but he played a right handed keyboard ;). He also played drums right handed. He did however play guitar and bass left handed, because that was how he was first shown. Someone knew he was left handed and told him to turn it upside down. This was back in Mississippi before he went to music school. It was just the way the street and church players he knew did things.

I suspect that in blues and funk there is a higher incidence of left handed players because people just pick up the thing and do whatever seems most comfortable. And there's probably a higher incidence of people in those genres who are self taught. There is probably a higher incidence of white guitarists playing lefty in those genres as well. I'd bet there is a higher proportion of people playing lefty in punk as well.

I don't think there is an ethnic predisposition to left handedness. I'll leave that to the statisticians. But I would believe that there is a higher proportion of folks (of any race) playing reversed guitars in folk, blues, gypsy, punk, and other mainly self taught genres.

[SybianRiot]

I agree aeolian that self taught genres will definitely reflect more folks playin' goofy handed. I still think that the representation of black players who are playing lefty among all of those players I see playing lefty is disproportionate to the representation of blacks in in the American population. I will try to start specifically taking notes and keeping tabs although this will also be highly unscientific as it will only be reflective of my particular television watching and concert attending habits. BTW, like MJ sang, "If you're pickin' on a guitar it don't matter if it's left or right, hee hee, shamoan unovit"

[Fuchsaudio]

I went to high school in Jamaica, Queens NY, and took a year of pre-Engineering at Thomas Edison HS. I jammed with a black dude named Walter, who played Albert King style (strung rightly played "upside down") who was a mo-fo....

Wonder where he is today. He was good enough to have made something of himself musically. Anybody ??

[ImmortalSix]

I know plenty of black players who play right-handed and none who play left-handed.

On a related note: one of my co-workers is a U.K. citizen, and is of Caribbean descent. He is a black guy, and thinks it's positively stupid when people call black people "African American," considering he is black and is neither African nor American.

:rotflmao

He gets a big kick out of it though, and his rant about being called an African American when he is neither African nor American always slays at happy hours! :rotflmao

I'm with him, saying African American is more generalistic and prejudicial than black. You can see if somebody is black or not. I have not yet found a way to see if someone is American or African, however.

-Hunter

[The Golden Boy]

I think "black" is a perfectly good term to distinguish the race as opposed to the culture.

After all, Phil Lynott is not African-American but Hendrix is.

Perhaps Phil Lynott was a "continentally challenged African-American?"

[Phil M]

Perhaps Phil Lynott was a "continentally challenged African-American?"

DOH!

[SybianRiot]

Let's please not turn this into a "hey, I know some great black guitarists" thread.That's a given. I also didn't want it to turn into a discussion of the acceptable terms for race classification. That can only end badly with people eventually getting offended. My apologies if the topic I initiated with was viewed as offensive in and of itself.

[VaughnC]

Based on this discussion...I guess that a guitarist who is half white & half black and ambidextrous wouldn't have a clue what to do with a guitar ;). Oh well, if someone is a decent human being and plays cool music, who cares about the rest.

BTW, I have a set of left handed screwdrivers for sale...or will trade for an equal value right handed set ;).

[rockstarjay]

Some of my very best friends are left handed.

[SybianRiot]

OP had nothing to do with skill level...that runs the gamut. And I didn't really expect Righty to get it, ya'll have always had the upper hand. Oops...Do as I say...

[madaxeman]

Some people think way,way,way too much.

[Telebluze]

some of my very best friends are left handed.

bwaaaaahaaaahaaaahaaaaa!!!

[notpetrucci]

You ever notice that most people who play a Les Paul with a bow are English?

-Jon

[ROKY]

You ever notice that most people who play a Les Paul with a bow are English?

-Jon

Shouldn't they be Native American ? :rimshot

[Phil M]

Some serious knowledge and theories in here boys !

Who you callin' "boys" ...

[Mark McPheeters]

If you consider that Jimi was 1/4 Cherokee and allegedly could play right-handed nearly as well, then things start gettin' messy....

[Alvis]

If you consider that Jimi was 1/4 Cherokee and allegedly could play right-handed nearly as well, then things start gettin' messy....

Not only that , 1/3 of the American gene pool is Irish ,so please pass the Bushmills & Lucky Charms........

[soli528]

LOL!

'facadical'? 'conformation'?

LOL!



I take no credit for "conformation", but think it has a nice ring to it and will probably use it going foward.
This one is actually valid, as in, the Conformation portion of AKC shows refers to how closely the contestant conforms to the breed standard.

I'm not saying that has anything to do with this conversation, but you could likely make that argument.

[SybianRiot]

Silliness, as Pops used to say, Pure, Unadulterated, Silliness....quit fartin' around!