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Demioblue
08-16-2009, 07:56 PM
Are there any discernable differences in build philosophies? I would believe that both are fantastic options, and either builder would be enough to satisfy a uber-high-end strat craving.

What would the main differences be that makes someone choose either one?

Any current owners care to share?

DWB1960
08-16-2009, 07:59 PM
:jo

tejastubes
08-16-2009, 08:15 PM
Are there any discernable differences in build philosophies? I would believe that both are fantastic options, and either builder would be enough to satisfy a uber-high-end strat craving.

What would the main differences be that makes someone choose either one?

Any current owners care to share?

Is it fair to ask the OP if he has contacted and spoken with both builders first about what their respective build philosphies are, rather than having the end users on TGP express what they think the "discernable differences in build philosophies" are?

I love my D'Pergo limited, BTW.

madstrat
08-16-2009, 08:26 PM
this wont end well

Thor
08-16-2009, 08:42 PM
this wont end well


No, problably not.

So, before things head off in a ditch, I would like to agree with the post above that suggests giving a call to each of the two buliders. They are both capable and dedicated. I have a D'Pergo AVC and love it dearly. My experice with the D'Pergo team was also outstanding. I don't have any first hand experience with DeTemple, but his work is generally held in very high regard as well.

IIRC wait times on a DeTemple are about 2 years last I checked and D'Pergo less than half if that makes a difference for you.

Happy hunting and I hope that you are able to pick up the guitar of your dreams.

-Edward

duckbunny
08-16-2009, 08:45 PM
:hide




-db

JZWest
08-16-2009, 09:10 PM
why does it have to be "vs"?

cutaway
08-16-2009, 09:13 PM
Why is this not a fair question? Seems like if you can't ask this here, then there's nowhere you can ask it.

I'd think this is EXACTLY why this forum was created.

R13D
08-16-2009, 09:34 PM
:munch

Joe F
08-16-2009, 09:39 PM
Both are a level of quality that is very high. Both do a lot of in house part fabrication.

DeTemple leans a bit more toward a refined version of the original although he is not afraid to option things like the titanium parts. He sees no issue with areas of improvement.

D'Pergo is not that far off from how it was back in the day either (compared to many guitar builders) but he does go a step further than DeTemple. He incorporates aged/recovered wood into his builds much more and suggests it to customers often and considers it and the way he specifically chooses the wood to be a diferentiating factor of his instruments (= he does not just buy old wood, he really has a passion, level of knowledge in this and has good partners he works with who really know their stuff on the subject). His hardware options can be very close to vintage (but with improvements in tolerances), or a bit more of a modern take (brass saddles, more hefty plate designs with more mass), and some on-board electronics (option). He has the nice ergonomic heel joint too.

I think it comes down to which builders makes the guitar you want, and honestly - who you just gell with. I know people seem nervious about threads involving D'Pergo, and I actually am out of the loop on that (and really don't want to be in it to be honest). I discovered him in 2004, have talked to him many times, respect his genuine passion for what he does, respect his skills and the skills of those he employs, and would recommend him. I have 3 of his bridges (this is back when he sold hardware, he does not do this anymore) and they are beyond perfectly made - they are the work of someone with competence, talent, and who really cares.

Having said that, I went with neither - my guitars have some things about them that really are off the beaten path and I found someone who is lower profile but who was more passionate about doing something weird.

serviviente7
08-16-2009, 09:47 PM
ok before they close this tread i will give my simple opinion. Excellent builders BUT their products are overated. There only so much "massage" and "mojo" you can put in a build. I can go on and on. I respect them both but there is a lot of "selling" going into those guitars. Ok let the bricks fall>>>

donostia13
08-16-2009, 10:06 PM
Why is this not a fair question? Seems like if you can't ask this here, then there's nowhere you can ask it.

I'd think this is EXACTLY why this forum was created.

Boy do I agree.

I've reread the original post and find it to be honest enough. By the way, if everything is equal just different, and there is nothing superior to anything else, then why don't we all just play Hello Kitty Strats?

Fuzzhead66
08-16-2009, 10:11 PM
Why is this not a fair question? Seems like if you can't ask this here, then there's nowhere you can ask it.

I'd think this is EXACTLY why this forum was created.

It's a viable question and all... But it's been covered a million times and
it tends to get ugly. There's a ton of info on both if you use the search function
in this forum. I'm sure the guys here can help you find some of the threads for reference.

Joe F
08-16-2009, 10:27 PM
there were two other really good points made: one is lead time. the other is cost. both are hard to quantify if you really want one. You can get quality guitars for less and for less wait (althout I think DeTemple's is much longer than D'Pergo), but you probably already knew that.

Demioblue
08-16-2009, 10:29 PM
Whoa... Hang on here... I'm not asking for a direct side by side comparison to say "this one's better" or whatever. Both seem to have beautiful creations, and I think honestly, no one can go wrong with either.

I just wanted to know from their respective end product owners, who you chose, and why. i've spoken with some builders (though not for strat-like guitars, but more for LP styled stuff) and chose Schroeder Guitars for a nice build that's beginning in about a month or so (I think). I'm eyeing a strat sort, and would like to see builders who do complete custom jobs (like speccing the neck out to what I want it to be, and not have to choose from a fixed group of specs). On that note, does John Suhr do custom neck jobs like that?

This is not about a playground brawl to say "mine is faster than yours, so there!" or anything else like it. It's meant to be a mature discussion of builders. Why did I pick these 2? because I'd say that these 2 so far have appealed to me the most visually so far. Simply that. I've seen Detemple build videos where the neck and the body were so tightly joined (without screwing anything in yet) that it was amazing how precise his craftsmenship is.

I'd like to see what the D'Pergo side would be like.

No, I've not contacted any of the 2 builders, as this is still in a very pre-mature stage, and I don't want to waste their time talking to me and not having it come of anything until I'm more certain. And in some cases, some builders I spoke to weren't all that interested to go into details until I had placed some form of a deposit, which I think is understandable.

Furthermore, the best advertising for any company comes from their end users. That's why I asked here, where it's supposed to have a multitude of collectors/players, with as objective a perception as can be.


DeTemple leans a bit more toward a refined version of the original although he is not afraid to option things like the titanium parts. He sees no issue with areas of improvement.

D'Pergo is not that far off from how it was back in the day either (compared to many guitar builders) but he does go a step further than DeTemple. He incorporates aged/recovered wood into his builds much more and suggests it to customers often and considers it and the way he specifically chooses the wood to be a diferentiating factor of his instruments (= he does not just buy old wood, he really has a passion, level of knowledge in this and has good partners he works with who really know their stuff on the subject). His hardware options can be very close to vintage (but with improvements in tolerances), or a bit more of a modern take (brass saddles, more hefty plate designs with more mass), and some on-board electronics (option). He has the nice ergonomic heel joint too.

I think it comes down to which builders makes the guitar you want, and honestly - who you just gell with. I know people seem nervious about threads involving D'Pergo, and I actually am out of the loop on that (and really don't want to be in it to be honest). I discovered him in 2004, have talked to him many times, respect his genuine passion for what he does, respect his skills and the skills of those he employs, and would recommend him. I have 3 of his bridges (this is back when he sold hardware, he does not do this anymore) and they are beyond perfectly made - they are the work of someone with competence, talent, and who really cares.

Joe, thank you for this. It's interesting to note how each builder approaches their builds with different methods, but most churn out fantastic products.

I'm especially enamoured of the way the D'Pergo contours are meant to make the guitar fit your body better. The Detemples seem to be a little more traditional, with great attention focused on the build and the wood, rather than ergonomics. I'm actually looking for all 3 qualities in my choice build. Wood choice, ergonomics and build quality. I've not seen D'Dergos with things like BRW, qtrsawn flame maple necks etc etc, or are those options as well?

mattmccloskey
08-16-2009, 11:37 PM
To answer your question about Suhr - yes John Suhr will do whatever neck you want. They will copy an existing neck if you wish, or modify any of the many profiles they offer.
I would highly recommend Suhr over the others you mention, simply because I believe you can get exactly what you want in far less time, for substantially less money, and they really have some fantastic options others do not offer.

I am not connected to Suhr in any manner except as a happy customer.

Demioblue
08-17-2009, 12:11 AM
To answer your question about Suhr - yes John Suhr will do whatever neck you want. They will copy an existing neck if you wish, or modify any of the many profiles they offer.
I would highly recommend Suhr over the others you mention, simply because I believe you can get exactly what you want in far less time, for substantially less money, and they really have some fantastic options others do not offer.

That's good news. I did see this on their "custom guitars" section, but I've also heard contradicting advice from some "would-be" dealers here in Singapore that claimed they carried Suhr as a distributorship.

The only reason why I didn't consider Suhr for sch a guitar, is mainly because Every Suhr I've tried did't work for me. Though those were mainly Pro Series guitars and the Modern. I am very tempted by the Suhr Carve-Top sans EMGs. Thanks for this. I might have to pay closer attention to this brand after all, though Suhrs seem to be less adventurous on the ergonomics front. Again, that's from the sad (little) experience I have with them, mainly on Pros.

mattmccloskey
08-17-2009, 12:36 AM
That's good news. I did see this on their "custom guitars" section, but I've also heard contradicting advice from some "would-be" dealers here in Singapore that claimed they carried Suhr as a distributorship.

The only reason why I didn't consider Suhr for sch a guitar, is mainly because Every Suhr I've tried did't work for me. Though those were mainly Pro Series guitars and the Modern. I am very tempted by the Suhr Carve-Top sans EMGs. Thanks for this. I might have to pay closer attention to this brand after all, though Suhrs seem to be less adventurous on the ergonomics front. Again, that's from the sad (little) experience I have with them, mainly on Pros.

Contact them via email or phone, and simply explain what you are looking for and they can tell you what they can do. I know in my own experience they really will go pretty far to do what you want as far as neck carve, radius, frets, nut width, taper, etc. They offer a ton of options, and if you ask for something not offered they will almost always do it anyway, as long as the request doesn't hurt the stability or function of the guitar.
I know they will even scan any neck you send them and duplicate the carve.

I recommend Suhr enthusiastically because they are one of the few companies that will literally build you another guitar if your order somehow doesn't work for you or if any spec isn't just right.

mslugano
08-17-2009, 04:49 AM
Contact them via email or phone, and simply explain what you are looking for and they can tell you what they can do. I know in my own experience they really will go pretty far to do what you want as far as neck carve, radius, frets, nut width, taper, etc. They offer a ton of options, and if you ask for something not offered they will almost always do it anyway, as long as the request doesn't hurt the stability or function of the guitar.
I know they will even scan any neck you send them and duplicate the carve.

I recommend Suhr enthusiastically because they are one of the few companies that will literally build you another guitar if your order somehow doesn't work for you or if any spec isn't just right.

To the OP, I'm with Matt. While I have frequently had both D'Pergo and DeTemple GAS (and I still do!), I can't justify 2-3 times the wait at 2-3 times the price of a Suhr Classic Custom. Maybe someday I will. In the meantime, Suhrs play amazing, you can have anything built to your specs (even your choice of headstocks!) and the customer service is far better than most.

I have no doubt the D'Pergos and DeTemples are fantastic in every way, too, but two or three times better?? You could even add all sorts of titanium saddles and blocks to a Suhr and still come in $thousands less.

Again to the OP, FWIW, I wouldn't draw conclusions about Suhr based on Pros and Moderns, by the way. They are completely different animals.

Eagle1
08-17-2009, 04:59 AM
Both great but absolutely no excuse not to be perfect at the price point. I'll take a Suhr and a few thousand dollars over either and the Suhr is just as good (Better IMO.)

mslugano
08-17-2009, 05:08 AM
Why is this not a fair question? Seems like if you can't ask this here, then there's nowhere you can ask it.

I'd think this is EXACTLY why this forum was created.

Absolutely! This is especially true for those of us who live outside the US and do not have access to stacks of great guitars to try out at your local shop. The value of being able to ask a forum of people with personal experience with one thing or another is absolutely massive to non-US dwellers.

The presumption that someone can't ask a question that has been asked "a million times before" is absurd. Frankly, that is part of what keeps this forum in business. How many billions of times do people ask the same questions about different wood, pickups comparisons, best relic builder, best trem, blah, blah, ad nauseum? It's down to the reader to choose which ones he/she reads and replies to.

Further, it's even more absurd to presume that someone can't ask a legitimate question simply because "it gets ugly". It's certainly not the OP's responsibility if forum members can not behave in a civil manner in response to an innocent enough thread.

benjychan
08-17-2009, 05:37 AM
That's good news. I did see this on their "custom guitars" section, but I've also heard contradicting advice from some "would-be" dealers here in Singapore that claimed they carried Suhr as a distributorship.


Haha.. That's nonsense. I just ordered a suhr classic from Ed Yoon at Suhr and he set the record straight - there are no Suhr dealers in Singapore.

Anyway, with regards to specs on a suhr, I concur with Matt - just email them and they'll be more than happy to speak to you about it. Ed's a great guy!

Ben.

mslugano
08-17-2009, 09:07 AM
Sorry to the OP for getting his thread so off topic.

Luke
08-17-2009, 09:10 AM
http://celebrity.lovetoknow.com/images/Celebrity/thumb/5/5d/Celebrity_deathmatch.jpg/200px-Celebrity_deathmatch.jpg

cutaway
08-17-2009, 09:28 AM
Absolutely! This is especially true for those of us who live outside the US and do not have access to stacks of great guitars to try out at your local shop. The value of being able to ask a forum of people with personal experience with one thing or another is absolutely massive to non-US dwellers.

The presumption that someone can't ask a question that has been asked "a million times before" is absurd. Frankly, that is part of what keeps this forum in business. How many billions of times do people ask the same questions about different wood, pickups comparisons, best relic builder, best trem, blah, blah, ad nauseum? It's down to the reader to choose which ones he/she reads and replies to.

Further, it's even more absurd to presume that someone can't ask a legitimate question simply because "it gets ugly". It's certainly not the OP's responsibility if forum members can not behave in a civil manner in response to an innocent enough thread. Plus, when you ask something and someone tells you to just do a search for it, that it's been covered, I'll do a search, and it turns up pages upon pages of results, some of which have NOTHING to do with your question.

tonic-penta
08-17-2009, 09:44 AM
benjychan, back a year or so guitar77 was a dealer. just that their prices were too ridiculous to sell thus they arent any longer.

wstsidela
08-17-2009, 10:18 AM
Beware the 1 post troll.

JPERRYROCKS
08-17-2009, 10:23 AM
Both guitars are very expensive. But there are many custom shop Fenders and are over 5 grand.

Resale seems to be very solid. You'll probably get most of your money back on a Detemple if the market holds up. D pergos are very good as well on, but mikes guitars seem to have one of the best resale values of any guitar on the market. When you're paying this amount of money for an instrument, I think of it as an investment as well.

jackaroo
08-17-2009, 10:32 AM
Having played them both I like the D'Pergo about 1000 times more than the DeTemple. I just thought the look, feel and sound of the D'Pergo was MILES ahead of the DeTemple. Not even close. Now It could be the specific guitars in question, but just the same that's my experience with them. FYI I like a good new/recent Fender guitars with a great fretjob and better pickups even more than either.


I think Mike is more a marketer than a master luthier at this point.


JD

MarkF786
08-17-2009, 10:40 AM
I've never played a DeTemple so all I know about their guitars is from what I've read. I do own a D'Pergo AVC so I'll share my opinion on that.

The one thing that stands out the most about D'Pergo to me is the amount of attention and detail that goes into wood choices, primarily using either river-recovered or old-growth wood. And the wood selection is not just based on age or looks: he uses advanced techniques like core samples and gas chromatography to find pieces of wood that have the characteristics he's looking for to meet the buyer's requirements. He's working with one of the biggest wood experts in the world, which gives him an edge.

Also his knowledge about different types of metal and their effect on tone is pretty impressive. The build quality on his hardware is impeccable. Maybe DeTemple's is as good (or even better, though it's hard to believe something could be much better).

Probably in terms of overall build quality and "fit & finish", both guitars would be similar.

Sound? You'd have to play both to know the difference. My D'Pergo is the best sounding guitar I've ever played, and I was never really big on strats. It has incredible warmth yet highlights the smallest subtleties in playing. I really can't do it just in trying to describe the sound, but it has a magic to it unlike any other guitar I've played.

"I've not seen D'Dergos with things like BRW, qtrsawn flame maple necks etc etc, or are those options as well?"

I think D'Pergo is more focused on the sound characteristics of the wood that on how it might look (ie. flame maple). BRW is a bit controversial so I don't know his stance on this. I imagine he is pretty flexible about wood choices though.

You really should give Stefan a call sometime. He's an amazing guy to talk to.

Mark

steveh
08-17-2009, 10:59 AM
The OP is fine with his question (as many others have pointed out). What's the big deal? It depresses me how some topics seem to raise antibodies for not good reason. I am in the UK and if it weren't for forums like this, it's very difficult to get information. Transatlantic calls are also expensive! I call people up after I've done a bit of research on places like this, rather than before. My questions etc are far more focussed as a result.

Anyways, never played a DeTemple so no opinion there. I'm very fond of my D'Pergo. It has a BRW fretboard, which is fine (swampash body). Build quality is very good but definitely not up to the standard of a Suhr I had. The Suhr also played better - I think the flatter/compound radius + PLEK of the Suhr etc etc contribute to this.

The D'Pergo is much more old school: I was expecting that - it's supposed to be a take on an old strat so that's cool. It sounds great and that's why I still have it. Tone is everything and that guitar is the strattiest strat in the kingdom of stratdom. The Shur was great also, a perfect do-it-all guitar (HSS), but it lacked a little bit of vibe. I think we're simply talking the difference between different takes on a "modern" and a "vintage" guitar. I was after "vintage" when I got the D'Pergo.

Incidentally, I thought the service from Suhr was absolutely top drawer. Absolutely the best. John and his team are very keen to make sure that things are right for you. I am confident they could put together a great guitar with a vintage vibe if that is what you want. I will get another one day, prob a Classic of some kind.

Cheers,
Steve

MarkF786
08-17-2009, 01:06 PM
Steveh,

What model of D'Pergo do you have? In my mind, when comparing them to DeTemples, only the AVC or AVCL would be fair comparisons.

Mark

Eagle1
08-17-2009, 01:46 PM
The OP is fine with his question (as many others have pointed out). What's the big deal? It depresses me how some topics seem to raise antibodies for not good reason. I am in the UK and if it weren't for forums like this, it's very difficult to get information. Transatlantic calls are also expensive! I call people up after I've done a bit of research on places like this, rather than before. My questions etc are far more focussed as a result.

Anyways, never played a DeTemple so no opinion there. I'm very fond of my D'Pergo. It has a BRW fretboard, which is fine (swampash body). Build quality is very good but definitely not up to the standard of a Suhr I had. The Suhr also played better - I think the flatter/compound radius + PLEK of the Suhr etc etc contribute to this.

The D'Pergo is much more old school: I was expecting that - it's supposed to be a take on an old strat so that's cool. It sounds great and that's why I still have it. Tone is everything and that guitar is the strattiest strat in the kingdom of stratdom. The Shur was great also, a perfect do-it-all guitar (HSS), but it lacked a little bit of vibe. I think we're simply talking the difference between different takes on a "modern" and a "vintage" guitar. I was after "vintage" when I got the D'Pergo.

Incidentally, I thought the service from Suhr was absolutely top drawer. Absolutely the best. John and his team are very keen to make sure that things are right for you. I am confident they could put together a great guitar with a vintage vibe if that is what you want. I will get another one day, prob a Classic of some kind.

Cheers,
Steve

Don't forget the Price difference.
As I said it is not acceptable for the said guitars to be any less than perfect and they aren't always .Just get a Suhr and don't subsidise the chisel fetishists.

MarkF786
08-17-2009, 01:55 PM
I keep hearing many good things about Suhr and I'd love to try one, but I feel that my collection is complete at the moment. After getting my D'Pergo, I felt I never needed to buy another strat (though I'm holding onto my Fender American Strat because the resale value is less than my personal valuation of it).

Maybe someday...

Vibrolucky
08-17-2009, 07:46 PM
I currently own a Detemple 52, and used to own a 56. I also have two more Detemples on order.

The current wait time for a Detemple is 4 years. They are all different, so its hard to peg one against the other. Mike D is a very old school builder. He does occassionally incorporate modern ideas (i.e., titanium truss rods, etc.)

My ONLY Beef with the Detemple guitars are the highly glossed lacquer necks. They play very nice, look perfect and feel great. However, they can get a little sticky if your hands sweat alot like mine. I would imagine that the gloss will wear off with more playing.

Its not for everybody, but I have owned a couple of REAL 1950's Teles. The Detemples are definately better playing guitars. They don't necessarily sound better.

They have incredible workmanship, playability & sustain. I admit, there is a certain level of snob appeal when you get to this level for money for a boutique guitar.

Demioblue
08-17-2009, 08:51 PM
Haha.. That's nonsense. I just ordered a suhr classic from Ed Yoon at Suhr and he set the record straight - there are no Suhr dealers in Singapore.

That's exactly my point! See?

John Alexander
08-17-2009, 08:53 PM
Don't forget the Price difference.
As I said it is not acceptable for the said guitars to be any less than perfect and they aren't always .Just get a Suhr and don't subsidise the chisel fetishists.


...there are lots of guys here who own/play D'Pergo's and plenty with DeTemple's...I don't think Eagle1 is one of them...always has plenty of colorful remarks...but he's not the best source for info on these instruments...

...I own a D'Pergo and I've played a bunch of other ones...I have nothing negative to say...I've only played one DeTemple, it looked great and felt wonderful, but I didn't play it enough to really have an opinion...

...Stefan's approach to wood selection seems much different than other builders...and a lot of that info is on his website and can be found in other threads...but as has been pointed out, not many builders make their own hardware (except the tuners) like Stefan does...Stefan's trussroad design is different...Stefan's guitars have a unique neck carve that is very comfortable...anyway, I haven't talked to Stefan in a few months, but he is a great guy and fun to deal with...I suggest calling him. I got my AVC (Oct., 2007) about 6 months after I ordered it...the last I heard, there was a 3 year wait for a custom build from DeTemple...

...my AVC has a satin finish (nitro) on the neck...not sticky, not ever...it also stays in tune better than any instrument I've owned...

Demioblue
08-17-2009, 09:11 PM
Thanks guys. I think, when you're searching for the ONE guitar, which doesn't exist until you have it made, the price shouldn't be much of an issue. If you are limimted by price, then it's not that one guitar, because you've not exhausted all the options, but was forced to make a decision based on predefined constraints. I will begin looking more into detail makers like Suhr and Anderson, but I wanted to explore the possibility of the first 2 I mentioned. At the end of the day, all good builders will turn out gems if your initial specs are correct. It's mostly a psychological factor.

For example, I currently own the best guitar ever made for me. It's an ErnieBall Musicman Silhouette Special. The neck carve (41mm width at nut, 21.5mm thickness, 10" radius, C shape) is just perfect for me. I've not no guitar that suits me better, and it's highly versatile, and has been highly modded. There are some tiny details, however, that I would have liked to gain control over had I the oppotunity.

Wood choice for one. I'd have gone for light Ash instead of Alder, and qtrsawn flame maple if I could. BRW as well, just for the neck of it. That's why my Schroeder will have BRW, and a 1 piece Honduran Mahogany body.

Frets-wise, I'd have gone for medium jumbos in stainless steel.

Trem-wise, I'd have gone for a 6 point vintage trem, instead of the 2 point that's currently being use, as well as a brass sustain block.

Controls-wise, I'd go for 2 volumes and one tone. (tone not linked to bridge pup)

Lastly, I'd like a swimming pool route where I can just change pup options without thinking twice. The Silo Spec already has this, though it is limited to SSH and SSS. I'd like a HH possibilty.

When looking at a complete custom build, there are some builders who stick by their guns, and refuse to budge from their principles. i can appreciate that, but my wallet doesn't allow that extravagance. If I'm going to spend that sort of cash on a guitar, it had better do everythihng I want and more!

Why is it a psychological factor? Because it was machine made. I'd like a guitar that does all that, BUT was lovingly crafted by hand from scratch as much as possible. This is the sort of vibe I get from BOTH D'Pergo and DeTemple. If I wanted a production line guitar, I'd stick to my EBMM because for me, there's nothing else worth looking at.

Demioblue
08-17-2009, 09:12 PM
My ONLY Beef with the Detemple guitars are the highly glossed lacquer necks. They play very nice, look perfect and feel great. However, they can get a little sticky if your hands sweat alot like mine. I would imagine that the gloss will wear off with more playing.

Glossy Lacquer? Does he use Nitro? Or Poly? I have dry hands... Stickiness would help sometimes. Hahahaha...

Demioblue
08-17-2009, 09:17 PM
I think D'Pergo is more focused on the sound characteristics of the wood that on how it might look (ie. flame maple). BRW is a bit controversial so I don't know his stance on this. I imagine he is pretty flexible about wood choices though.

Ahh... I totally dig this. Thanks for mentioning this. I can appreciate tonal advantages over aesthetics. But surely there's a possibilty to have both? Heheheh...

mslugano
08-18-2009, 02:39 AM
Thanks guys. I think, when you're searching for the ONE guitar, which doesn't exist until you have it made, the price shouldn't be much of an issue. If you are limimted by price, then it's not that one guitar, because you've not exhausted all the options, but was forced to make a decision based on predefined constraints. I will begin looking more into detail makers like Suhr and Anderson, but I wanted to explore the possibility of the first 2 I mentioned. At the end of the day, all good builders will turn out gems if your initial specs are correct. It's mostly a psychological factor.


Controls-wise, I'd go for 2 volumes and one tone. (tone not linked to bridge pup)

.

Having owned lots of both Anderson and Suhr, I'll throw in my 2 cents on these as choices.

They are both excellent and I really think you can not buy a bad one...their consistency in making top quality instruments is incredible. The setup, neck (both feel and shape) is wonderful, choice of wood and color is huge and their pickups are very versatile. Importantly, I don't believe it would be possible to improve on either's customer service.

This being said, there are differences. The Anderson body on their Classic is more sleek (read small) and, to me, his pickups sound more modern. I have not tried all of them but lots and all the ones I tried sorta fell into the modern tone department. Andersons "M" pickups are some of my favorite non-single coil, non-HB pups on the planet, BTW! If you want a bigger tone of an HB but want it to cut through the mix like a single coil, this is your pup, IMO.

Suhr's standard Classic is the standard strat size and shape except for additional neck joint carving which is a good thing. I happen to prefer his shape to Anderson. His guitars tend to be more Classic in tone, too. His V60LP single coils are beautiful for classic tones and when you throw in his "silent system" you get classic tones and no hum. Also, as Matt noted, I think Suhr has much greater options...you can pretty much ask him to do anything (including things like Tremol-no which I LOVE and now have installed on all my guitars).

I believe anyone's particular specs belong solely to them so I hesitate to comment on your specs. However, I have to wonder why you'd want two volume pots on, presumably, a three pickup guitar. I could see it on an HH but it seems impractical on an SSS or SSH.

Also, I have found a bridge tone pot helps immensely. No tone on the bridge really limits your possibilities since some pup makers make their bridge really peaky. When you roll off the tone though you are golden. If you go without a bridge tone, it seems to me you are limiting yourself to only those pickups that have a thicker tone and, personally, I like choice. What I have found works for me is tone on neck and bridge but no tone on middle. This way I just flip to the middle pup for a cutting through tone (without the ear bleeding tone that sometimes comes with a bridge single coil) and, since the middle always retains its brightness, the number 2 and 4 positions are always bright and clear. Some people just disconnect the tone from the 2 and 4 positions but sometimes I like the tone of a bright middle mixed with a fully rolled off bridge.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck with your search.

Demioblue
08-18-2009, 03:34 AM
I believe anyone's particular specs belong solely to them so I hesitate to comment on your specs. However, I have to wonder why you'd want two volume pots on, presumably, a three pickup guitar. I could see it on an HH but it seems impractical on an SSS or SSH.

Also, I have found a bridge tone pot helps immensely. No tone on the bridge really limits your possibilities since some pup makers make their bridge really peaky. When you roll off the tone though you are golden. If you go without a bridge tone, it seems to me you are limiting yourself to only those pickups that have a thicker tone and, personally, I like choice. What I have found works for me is tone on neck and bridge but no tone on middle. This way I just flip to the middle pup for a cutting through tone (without the ear bleeding tone that sometimes comes with a bridge single coil) and, since the middle always retains its brightness, the number 2 and 4 positions are always bright and clear. Some people just disconnect the tone from the 2 and 4 positions but sometimes I like the tone of a bright middle mixed with a fully rolled off bridge.

Hey, thanks for the heads up on the Suhrs and Andersons! The Andersons at least, were very high on my list when I looked to embark on a top notch guitar. Suhrs were not so, mainly because I didn't play any I liked, though I must qualify again, that I've only played the Pro and the Modern series.

Ahaha... I knew someone would ask me about this... 2 volumes and one tone?

Well, I'm a huge fan of the 2 vol 2 tone configuration that the Les Pauls come with. I like being able to switch from neck to bridge while the neck has the vol rolled off and the treble bleed circuit is active, so I go from clean and subtle to big and nasty in a flick. Especially when I'm away from my pedal board.

also, I never use the tone knob on my bridge pup, but I use it quite often for the middle pickup and the neck. I like one setting where the middle and neck are in parallel, and the tone knob is at 0 for the middle, and the bridge is full on. It's a nice volatile lead tone there.

I like bridge pickups with no tone control, as most of my strats are like this. I've tried wiring one of them up, and I find it darkens the bridge tone a bit. My strat with the Fender CS Fat 50s is like this, and I much prefer the bridge single to be without tone control.

I understand your point about the need and limitation of pickup choices, and honestly, I've not yet tried this with a humbucker. The humbuckers might not work well in this case though, that is true. I'll have to try it with my SSH Silhouette Special.

The reason why I said 2 volumes, is so that one controls the neck and middle, and the other controls only the bridge. The single tone is only for the neck and the middle. After owning so many guitars with different control layouts, this one seems to be what I use the most. Though it might be a good idea to go 2 vol and 2 tone, and just not touch the bridge tone.

andy888
08-18-2009, 05:13 AM
I'd also check out Jeff Senn guitars

mslugano
08-18-2009, 06:39 AM
I'd also check out Jeff Senn guitars

Yea, that's somebody I'd like to try, too.

Tomo
08-18-2009, 06:49 AM
...there are lots of guys here who own/play D'Pergo's and plenty with DeTemple's...I don't think Eagle1 is one of them...always has plenty of colorful remarks...but he's not the best source for info on these instruments...

...I own a D'Pergo and I've played a bunch of other ones...I have nothing negative to say...I've only played one DeTemple, it looked great and felt wonderful, but I didn't play it enough to really have an opinion...

...Stefan's approach to wood selection seems much different than other builders...and a lot of that info is on his website and can be found in other threads...but as has been pointed out, not many builders make their own hardware (except the tuners) like Stefan does...Stefan's trussroad design is different...Stefan's guitars have a unique neck carve that is very comfortable...anyway, I haven't talked to Stefan in a few months, but he is a great guy and fun to deal with...I suggest calling him. I got my AVC (Oct., 2007) about 6 months after I ordered it...the last I heard, there was a 3 year wait for a custom build from DeTemple...

...my AVC has a satin finish (nitro) on the neck...not sticky, not ever...it also stays in tune better than any instrument I've owned...

Great post! I only can say.. how happy to meet my D'Pergo strat. Wood selection ... I agree.... nothing like this out there. It's very special and Stefan is really nice guy too. My students got their D'Pergo after 6-8 months.

This is my D'Pergo AVC strat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1ar9-SBiHA

Tomo

mslugano
08-18-2009, 07:29 AM
Yea, Tomo, your YouTube DPergo vids have been giving me GAS for months.

2tone
08-18-2009, 10:28 AM
Having owned and played Suhr guitars and D'Pergo's, the D'Pergo's have an extraordinary deep detail and balance that I haven't heard in any other guitar that I've played or owned. I don't see people keep bringing up Suhr to compare. They are great guitars, as are many other current built guitars, but really you'd have to compare the D'Pergo to a similar guitar made from similar woods and materials.. My opinion...

mattmccloskey
08-18-2009, 10:43 AM
Having owned and played Suhr guitars and D'Pergo's, the D'Pergo's have an extraordinary deep detail and balance that I haven't heard in any other guitar that I've played or owned. I don't see people keep bringing up Suhr to compare. They are great guitars, as are many other current built guitars, but really you'd have to compare the D'Pergo to a similar guitar made from similar woods and materials.. My opinion...

why wouldn't they be a similar guitar? Both strat style instruments with contoured heels, bolt-on necks, alder or ash, maple necks or maple/rosewood. Both are (if ordered as such) refined versions of the classic fender design built with tight tolerances and custom options. Why would that not be a valid comparison? Both wind in-house pickups, both build to order, both offer wood of different species,etc.

2tone
08-18-2009, 10:55 AM
Yes they have similar specs, but the real difference is the way the old wood and his components match up. If Suhr offered the same wood, with the same techniques of drying and carving/machining, then it would be more valid. I wouldn't have believed the difference if I hadn't heard it. Compared 5 different brands of strats extensively with the D'Pergos, and came up with the same conclusion every time. Maybe everyone doesn't hear it the same, but I have to go with my ears on this one.

mslugano
08-18-2009, 11:02 AM
Having owned and played Suhr guitars and D'Pergo's, the D'Pergo's have an extraordinary deep detail and balance that I haven't heard in any other guitar that I've played or owned. I don't see people keep bringing up Suhr to compare. They are great guitars, as are many other current built guitars, but really you'd have to compare the D'Pergo to a similar guitar made from similar woods and materials.. My opinion...

Yea, I'd love to be able to do a fairly long term comparison of the two. I know I'd end up doing a comparison based a % thing, though (one of them costs X times the other one and I get X times the improved tone/playability). If I end up getting an additional 10% improvement in tone for, say, twice the price...I know which I'd choose.

Can you give any thoughts on this based on your first-hand experience? Same goes to anyone else with D'Pergo and/or DeTemple experience (kinda back to the OP's question).

mattmccloskey
08-18-2009, 11:10 AM
Yes they have similar specs, but the real difference is the way the old wood and his components match up. If Suhr offered the same wood, with the same techniques of drying and carving/machining, then it would be more valid. I wouldn't have believed the difference if I hadn't heard it. Compared 5 different brands of strats extensively with the D'Pergos, and came up with the same conclusion every time. Maybe everyone doesn't hear it the same, but I have to go with my ears on this one.

did you try any of the suhrs available with old growth woods? how about his 'vulcanized' maple?
I don't take issue with your preference, but the notion that it isn't a valid comparison. Any 2 guitars of the same basic design and feature set that allow for the player's choice of spec would be a completely rational comparison. Which of these you choose as a preference is a different matter, and up to the individual.

2tone
08-18-2009, 11:14 AM
It's a matter of qualitative, not quantitative. It's hard to say, this one's 15% more clear than the other etc etc. Your ear may strongly prefer a certain sound that some people may call 10% or so difference, but that doesn;t mean anything ..For everyone, it boils down to how the quality of the sound grabs you and connects with your playing. If I heard a certain sound that I really really liked, and it was twice as much $ as the second choice, I'd start saving up to get it. I have not had the DeTemple and D'Pergo at the same time to compare, but I have compared all the other 5 top axes with the DP, for long periods.

mattmccloskey
08-18-2009, 11:17 AM
It's a matter of qualitative, not quantitative. It's hard to say, this one's 15% more clear than the other etc etc. Your ear may strongly prefer a certain sound that some people may call 10% or so difference, but that doesn;t mean anything ..For everyone, it boils down to how the quality of the sound grabs you and connects with your playing. If I heard a certain sound that I really really liked, and it was twice as much $ as the second choice, I'd start saving up to get it. I have not had the DeTemple and D'Pergo at the same time to compare, but I have compared all the other 5 top axes with the DP, for long periods.

right... you did a comparison. Shouldn't others make that comparison and come to their preference?

73171
08-18-2009, 11:39 AM
I'd love a D'Pergo or a DeTemple......but I don't have that much money in
d'bank account.......:roll


I guess it's a MIM Strat for me...................

bforest4
08-18-2009, 11:52 AM
I have a D'Pergo AVC(cocobolo fretboard, aged alder body), have played a few other D'Pergo's, and have had a few Suhr's and an Anderson, and done countless shootouts. I have stated this before, these guitars are at totally different price points, the Suhr is my favorite at it's price point, but the D'Pergo is my favorite strat style guitar if you have the funds, and well worth it for me. More 3D, clarity, dynamics, mojo, and vintage vibe in general. The Suhr has the SSC silent coil system which is a real plus. As far as Anderson, IMO, it is equal to the Suhr except for the pickups(which can be easily replaced).

Would love to try a D'Temple someday.

mslugano
08-18-2009, 11:59 AM
It's a matter of qualitative, not quantitative. It's hard to say, this one's 15% more clear than the other etc etc. Your ear may strongly prefer a certain sound that some people may call 10% or so difference, but that doesn;t mean anything ..For everyone, it boils down to how the quality of the sound grabs you and connects with your playing. If I heard a certain sound that I really really liked, and it was twice as much $ as the second choice, I'd start saving up to get it. I have not had the DeTemple and D'Pergo at the same time to compare, but I have compared all the other 5 top axes with the DP, for long periods.

I know for sure I would not pay twice or more the price for ANYTHING that might be 10-15% better. At some point, frankly, I think it comes down to braggin' rights...size matters, right?

To be fair, I do think there is value in buying something that retains its value...IF you can afford it. I have heard it said that, once you buy your first Ferrari/Lamborghini, you never have to buy another again because they retain their value and you can always trade up. The guys that do that, though, are out of my league and probably many other's, but, maybe the same dynamic applies to DeTemple...once you can afford one, you never have to pay for another.

This being said, the problem you have is that, once they take a ding, their price is toast whether Lamborghini or DeTemple. So, you end up with a thing (guitar or car) that is impossible to take out for a cruise without being paranoid of the inevitible bump/bruise/break/theft. I know that, with my Suhrs and Andersons, despite their exceptional quality I am not concerned to gig them. That is worth a LOT to me.

Eagle1
08-18-2009, 12:19 PM
...there are lots of guys here who own/play D'Pergo's and plenty with DeTemple's...I don't think Eagle1 is one of them...always has plenty of colorful remarks...but he's not the best source for info on these instruments...

...I own a D'Pergo and I've played a bunch of other ones...I have nothing negative to say...I've only played one DeTemple, it looked great and felt wonderful, but I didn't play it enough to really have an opinion...

...Stefan's approach to wood selection seems much different than other builders...and a lot of that info is on his website and can be found in other threads...but as has been pointed out, not many builders make their own hardware (except the tuners) like Stefan does...Stefan's trussroad design is different...Stefan's guitars have a unique neck carve that is very comfortable...anyway, I haven't talked to Stefan in a few months, but he is a great guy and fun to deal with...I suggest calling him. I got my AVC (Oct., 2007) about 6 months after I ordered it...the last I heard, there was a 3 year wait for a custom build from DeTemple...

...my AVC has a satin finish (nitro) on the neck...not sticky, not ever...it also stays in tune better than any instrument I've owned...
They are both wonderfull guitars but my point is so is a Suhr and if someone wants to say how the other two are better go ahead.

2tone
08-18-2009, 12:20 PM
Yes that's true.Initial comparisons are what we all do. Then further thoughts are needed to find out why there are big differences...

jiml
08-18-2009, 12:27 PM
I'd love a D'Pergo or a DeTemple......but I don't have that much money in
d'bank account.......:roll


I guess it's a MIM Strat for me...................

Best post in this thread!

Tonefish
08-18-2009, 12:34 PM
The best thing to do is go play them all. Find them and play them; all of them. When you're thinking about spending that kind of money, what's a trip or two worth to go play them?

I did.

I chose D'Pergo.

2tone
08-18-2009, 12:41 PM
I never buy anything that I'm afraid to ding up, take out and play and treat like any other piece of gear. The D'Pergo's have some dings on them, I don't care about the value. I just play them. No ideas of trading up etc...I just buy for the sound and playability . The market price and loss of value from dings don't matter...







I know for sure I would not pay twice or more the price for ANYTHING that might be 10-15% better. At some point, frankly, I think it comes down to braggin' rights...size matters, right?

To be fair, I do think there is value in buying something that retains its value...IF you can afford it. I have heard it said that, once you buy your first Ferrari/Lamborghini, you never have to buy another again because they retain their value and you can always trade up. The guys that do that, though, are out of my league and probably many other's, but, maybe the same dynamic applies to DeTemple...once you can afford one, you never have to pay for another.

This being said, the problem you have is that, once they take a ding, their price is toast whether Lamborghini or DeTemple. So, you end up with a thing (guitar or car) that is impossible to take out for a cruise without being paranoid of the inevitible bump/bruise/break/theft. I know that, with my Suhrs and Andersons, despite their exceptional quality I am not concerned to gig them. That is worth a LOT to me.

aarondavis
08-18-2009, 12:45 PM
OK, serious question: What actually is the price point of D'Pergo's and De Temple's?

For what it's worth. I've only seen pics of D'Pergo's, but they look like *exquisite* guitars. If I had some sort of evil, obscene "windfall profit" I'd most certainly call Stefan to start a Bakersfield order.

Guess I'll stick with my lowly Kolls...:aok (happily)

mattmccloskey
08-18-2009, 01:03 PM
I am a firm believer in the function and quality of the instrument being of the primary importance.
"tone" is such a subjective notion, and so drastically affected by other factors (string freshness and type, cables, pedals, amps, settings, room acoustics, musical context, and first and foremost the player's technique) that it is a great wash after a point.

I would bet all my money that if I randomly put up a series of clips alone, nobody would be able to tell me what guitar was being used. The closest guesses might be 'a strat in the neck pick-up position', or 'a bridge humbucker sound' etc.

For example, the clip of Tomo playing a blues with his d'pergo could have been any old strat - it just sounded like him, the way he sounds playing a strat type guitar. Good sound, but it could have just as easily been his fender, his suhr, or any of the other clips I have heard of his with a strat.

Now the actual feel of it to him, and his comfort on it may make it the perfect guitar for him, and well worth it. That is perhaps the most important factor, but sound is so easily changed by such a wide array of environmental factors that subtle differences are either lost or rendered arbitrary.

shawntp
08-18-2009, 01:39 PM
Each is north of the 6K mark but you have a lot of options that effect price. You might see detemples creep up towards 10K on ebay and such as the wait is a little longer.

I think D'Pergo used to have a non-aged option that was priced near the custom Suhr's a couple years back (you can see a couple on gbase) but I think now they are only doing aged classics.

I've not played either but I have a catalog coming from D'Pergo.

Shawn

OK, serious question: What actually is the price point of D'Pergo's and De Temple's?

For what it's worth. I've only seen pics of D'Pergo's, but they look like *exquisite* guitars. If I had some sort of evil, obscene "windfall profit" I'd most certainly call Stefan to start a Bakersfield order.

Guess I'll stick with my lowly Kolls...:aok (happily)

Demioblue
08-18-2009, 07:14 PM
The best thing to do is go play them all. Find them and play them; all of them. When you're thinking about spending that kind of money, what's a trip or two worth to go play them?

Well, the money spent on this trip would have afforded me 2 D'Pergos and more! I'm in Singapore. Not the USA. That makes it a bit harder to go try stuff. Heh...

Demioblue
08-18-2009, 07:19 PM
but I think now they are only doing aged classics.

Oh crap... That's not for me...:( I don't like aged (reliced). I want to bneat it up myself. but most of the guitars I've seen on the D'Pergo site look brand new!

Tonefish
08-18-2009, 07:48 PM
Well, the money spent on this trip would have afforded me 2 D'Pergos and more! I'm in Singapore. Not the USA. That makes it a bit harder to go try stuff. Heh...

Oops...dang, that's a different situation than I was thinking.:o

shawntp
08-18-2009, 08:06 PM
Oh crap... That's not for me...:( I don't like aged (reliced). I want to bneat it up myself. but most of the guitars I've seen on the D'Pergo site look brand new!

The D'Pergo Aged Classic is not a relic or an artificially aged/worn/beat up guitar as it might sound.

Their aged vintage classic strats are basically their old growth wood guitars (like 600 year old maple or whatever). I am just catching up on their models/options/etc and waiting for my catalog before I call to understand more.

The D'Pergo AVC is a brand new pristine guitar - it incorporates aged / old growth woods unlike what you can get from most and vintage build techniques. The guitar they hand build (even down to machining their own screws) is said to have its own special characteristics but that it feels/looks very much like a brand new 1950's fender might have when it is brand new.

More than a couple vintage fender buffs on this forum have looked at the detemples and dpergos as equal or preferred alternatives to actual 50's vintage fenders. These builders allow you to get a guitar that has been built with painstaking detail very much like a 50's fender-style instrument for a premium (but its a savings over having to pay for the collectibility of a vintage fender).

I have not played either so I can't offer any real advice - I know Don Grosh also makes absolutely killer vintage fender style guitars. I have also seen many guys on this forum hapily opt to build a custom Suhr over buying a vintage strat. The above is just my impression from other owners as to what these shops are about. Each is doing something a little extra special.

My impression is that when you get your detemple or depergo - its like your grandfather handing you a mint 1956 strat that he just found up in the attic.

mattmccloskey
08-18-2009, 08:52 PM
The D'Pergo Aged Classic is not a relic or an artificially aged/worn/beat up guitar as it might sound.

Their aged vintage classic strats are basically their old growth wood guitars (like 600 year old maple or whatever). I am just catching up on their models/options/etc and waiting for my catalog before I call to understand more.

The D'Pergo AVC is a brand new pristine guitar - it incorporates aged / old growth woods unlike what you can get from most and vintage build techniques. The guitar they hand build (even down to machining their own screws) is said to have its own special characteristics but that it feels/looks very much like a brand new 1950's fender might have when it is brand new.

More than a couple vintage fender buffs on this forum have looked at the detemples and dpergos as equal or preferred alternatives to actual 50's vintage fenders. These builders allow you to get a guitar that has been built with painstaking detail very much like a 50's fender-style instrument for a premium (but its a savings over having to pay for the collectibility of a vintage fender).

I have not played either so I can't offer any real advice - I know Don Grosh also makes absolutely killer vintage fender style guitars. I have also seen many guys on this forum hapily opt to build a custom Suhr over buying a vintage strat. The above is just my impression from other owners as to what these shops are about. Each is doing something a little extra special.

My impression is that when you get your detemple or depergo - its like your grandfather handing you a mint 1956 strat that he just found up in the attic.

But the d'pergo's are quite different from vintage fenders. They have contoured neck joints, different materials, flatter radius fingerboards. vintage fenders were assembly line made production guitars meant to be affordable and easily replaced, out of wood that was inexpensive and easy to obtain for fender.
Vintage fenders have narrow nuts made from synthetic material and tiny little frets. They had polyester (fullerplast) undercoats, and were sometimes rushed out of the factory with one paint job over another, or no clear coat. The color coats were acrylics, not nitro.
I highly doubt anyone who is into vintage strats really thinks the d'pergo or any other new high-priced strat type guitars are really that similar.

shawntp
08-18-2009, 09:20 PM
But the d'pergo's are quite different from vintage fenders. They have contoured neck joints, different materials, flatter radius fingerboards. vintage fenders were assembly line made production guitars meant to be affordable and easily replaced, out of wood that was inexpensive and easy to obtain for fender.
Vintage fenders have narrow nuts made from synthetic material and tiny little frets. They had polyester (fullerplast) undercoats, and were sometimes rushed out of the factory with one paint job over another, or no clear coat. The color coats were acrylics, not nitro.
I highly doubt anyone who is into vintage strats really thinks the d'pergo or any other new high-priced strat type guitars are really that similar.

The impressions agree with what you say - I have gathered are that the D'Pergos are quite different sounding and not meant to be a drop in replacement of a vintage Fender Strat. Like you say there are many design differences.

Lots of people do feel that the D'Pergos have the look and feel that resembles a vintage fender though. I've played a lot of vintage fenders and most were quite wonderful. I am eager to try a D'Pergo very soon.

I don't think that the D'Pergo is meant to be a vintage fender replica by any means - seem to be putting a lot of effort into designing and building their own masterpiece strats. People keep saying that when they pick up their D'Pergo though - it really feels *like* a vintage guitar / aged - settled - broken in well - etc.

I've played some mint early 60's strats that had an incredible aged/settled/broken in look (not reliced - just perfectly aged) that felt and sounded like heaven. My hope is that a new D'pergo will be able to capture some of that special feel while being a great and original strat in its own right.

I also plan to try out other classic strat builds as well. At these level of builders (Suhr, Grosh, Detemple, D'Pergo) its about about finding what instruments you bond with. There are elements to the 1960's fenders that I like - there are elements to my modern Fender strats that I like - its all about finding [or having built] a strat that embodies all these things - I think thats what sets these builds apart. It seems like they are trying to offer you the best of vintage and modern worlds in one.

If you have 7K+ to spend on your holy grail strat then your options sort of become vintage fenders and a hand full of these high end strat builders.

Demioblue
08-18-2009, 09:39 PM
My impression is that when you get your detemple or depergo - its like your grandfather handing you a mint 1956 strat that he just found up in the attic.

I like this idea.

The thing about this high-end strat hunt for me is this:

I have a wonderful Fender 57 HotRod strat that my wife bought me. It's sleek. What I mean is, it's got the thinnest neck I've ever felt on any Fender, and it's a 9.5" radius with a soft V. I've also owned quite a few other Fenders and one other 57 hotRod. none of them felt like this one. It's also the lightest strat I've ever played. Something like just below 7lbs. It's also terribly bright sounding, which I like. Very strong "woody tone" too. It's an oddity, and My wife was extremely lucky when she got it.

If you combine Those aspects in a guitar, combined with the neck carve of my Silhouette Special C shaped neck, I might very well be looking at a perfect strat in my books.

If I could add a "seasoned" feel to it, though still in mint condition, then that's even better. Once you throw in "lovingly hand-crafted" then it's a winner!

From all accounts I'm reading so far, D'Pergo seems to be the way to go for me.

But the d'pergo's are quite different from vintage fenders. They have contoured neck joints, different materials, flatter radius fingerboards. vintage fenders were assembly line made production guitars meant to be affordable and easily replaced, out of wood that was inexpensive and easy to obtain for fender.

This is what I can seriously appreciate. I like the additional contours of the D'Pergo. That's what attracted me in the first place. Add that with the heavbily rolled edges, and I'm hooked. The DeTemples to me are just beautiful. But that's mainly what's pulling me towards that builder. The ability to get beautifully sourced wood. But so far, I'm not convinced that this is something that's going to make me want to play it 10 years from now. It'll make me go "wow" for sure though.

This is turning out to be a most informative thread. Thanks to all who have contributed!

mattmccloskey
08-18-2009, 11:00 PM
I like this idea.

The thing about this high-end strat hunt for me is this:

I have a wonderful Fender 57 HotRod strat that my wife bought me. It's sleek. What I mean is, it's got the thinnest neck I've ever felt on any Fender, and it's a 9.5" radius with a soft V. I've also owned quite a few other Fenders and one other 57 hotRod. none of them felt like this one. It's also the lightest strat I've ever played. Something like just below 7lbs. It's also terribly bright sounding, which I like. Very strong "woody tone" too. It's an oddity, and My wife was extremely lucky when she got it.

If you combine Those aspects in a guitar, combined with the neck carve of my Silhouette Special C shaped neck, I might very well be looking at a perfect strat in my books.

If I could add a "seasoned" feel to it, though still in mint condition, then that's even better. Once you throw in "lovingly hand-crafted" then it's a winner!

From all accounts I'm reading so far, D'Pergo seems to be the way to go for me.



This is what I can seriously appreciate. I like the additional contours of the D'Pergo. That's what attracted me in the first place. Add that with the heavbily rolled edges, and I'm hooked. The DeTemples to me are just beautiful. But that's mainly what's pulling me towards that builder. The ability to get beautifully sourced wood. But so far, I'm not convinced that this is something that's going to make me want to play it 10 years from now. It'll make me go "wow" for sure though.

This is turning out to be a most informative thread. Thanks to all who have contributed!

I think if you have a couple great guitars, why not just keep them and focus on the music?

I understand the desire to get the 'ultimate' guitar, but you seem to really love the instruments you have. The best motive to ordering a custom instrument is when you are dissatisfied with what you have. This does not seem like your situation.

I wouldn't count on gaining much from any new guitar once you have found a couple that work well and are broken-in already. I know this is the antithesis of this forum but sometimes it is worthwhile to put the brakes on gear lust and really ask yourself "what difference would it really make?".

I also wouldn't put too much stock in the idea of 'beautiful wood'. There isn't any reason musically for old wood or beautiful wood to be 'better'. It's not like a tree gets old and suddenly becomes somehow better at creating a solid body electric guitar. What scientific principle would be at work that could dictate such a thing?

CallowHill
08-18-2009, 11:36 PM
I think if you have a couple great guitars, why not just keep them and focus on the music?

I understand the desire to get the 'ultimate' guitar, but you seem to really love the instruments you have. The best motive to ordering a custom instrument is when you are dissatisfied with what you have. This does not seem like your situation.

I wouldn't count on gaining much from any new guitar once you have found a couple that work well and are broken-in already. I know this is the antithesis of this forum but sometimes it is worthwhile to put the brakes on gear lust and really ask yourself "what difference would it really make?".

I also wouldn't put too much stock in the idea of 'beautiful wood'. There isn't any reason musically for old wood or beautiful wood to be 'better'. It's not like a tree gets old and suddenly becomes somehow better at creating a solid body electric guitar. What scientific principal would be at work that could dictate such a thing?

Very well said.

J.T. Guitar
08-18-2009, 11:46 PM
Stefan is probably the most tenacious, meticulous, and knowledgable builders I have ever had the pleasure to know. I have an AVC and a Bakersfield. As a lot of people have, I have gone through some tough ecomomic times. But playing these guitars, (and especially recording with them) has always made me recoil from the idea selling them. Here they are...

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh10/JT_Guitar/IMG_1112.jpg

J.T. Guitar
08-18-2009, 11:51 PM
There isn't any reason musically for old wood or beautiful wood to be 'better'. It's not like a tree gets old and suddenly becomes somehow better at creating a solid body electric guitar. What scientific principal would be at work that could dictate such a thing?

:facepalm Yeah... and a Stradivarius isn't a "better" violin either. :bong

splatt
08-19-2009, 12:22 AM
I think if you have a couple great guitars, why not just keep them and focus on the music?
agreed..... if the "lust"-thing acts as a distraction to your music,
rather than as musico-aesthetically nutritional substance.
but, it doesn't matter:
that's for individuals to decide, not committees, afaict.

There isn't any reason musically for..... beautiful wood to be 'better'. It's not like a tree gets old and suddenly becomes somehow better at creating a solid body electric guitar. What scientific principal would be at work that could dictate such a thing?
sorry for the partial quote, there.

have you ever spoken in any depth to mr. dapergolas
about his own highly & carefully developed rationale, vis ل vis timber-choices,
or the methodology employed to find & develop those woods, matt?
this may not change your mind about such things, but..... it may do.

(btw: i think the word you meant to use, above, was "principle", yeah?)

dt / spltrcl

splatt
08-19-2009, 12:25 AM
Oh crap... That's not for me...:( I don't like aged (reliced). I want to bneat it up myself. but most of the guitars I've seen on the D'Pergo site look brand new!
my d'pergo def doesn't look brand-new, anymore.....
but the pictures of it on the d'pergo site still look brand-new!
dt / spltrcl

Demioblue
08-19-2009, 01:15 AM
I think if you have a couple great guitars, why not just keep them and focus on the music?

I understand the desire to get the 'ultimate' guitar, but you seem to really love the instruments you have. The best motive to ordering a custom instrument is when you are dissatisfied with what you have. This does not seem like your situation.

I wouldn't count on gaining much from any new guitar once you have found a couple that work well and are broken-in already. I know this is the antithesis of this forum but sometimes it is worthwhile to put the brakes on gear lust and really ask yourself "what difference would it really make?".

I also wouldn't put too much stock in the idea of 'beautiful wood'. There isn't any reason musically for old wood or beautiful wood to be 'better'. It's not like a tree gets old and suddenly becomes somehow better at creating a solid body electric guitar. What scientific principal would be at work that could dictate such a thing?

Hahahaha... Good points.:aok

I think this is just some warped version of GAS. It's not a "I must buy now!" thing. It's more like: "I eventually must own!".

Yes, I do have some great guitars. No doubt. It's more a matter of pride. Having something I specced, and had made after going through many alternatives. Sort of like marrying the right woman.

It's also something I can hand down to my son and say: "This is what I am manifested in a guitar. This is me. Treasure it, or I'll come back from the grave and haunt you!".:roll It's like the Schroeder I comissioned. It's got the neck I want, the wood I want, the look I want, the frets I want, the scale length I want, the piezo I want. It's even got a symbol as an inlay which I designed more than 10 years back. It represents me. It's the LP i wish an LP was. And it's a 7 string. All of this is what I have learnt about myself over the years as a player.

All my really good guitars have something or another that I really like, and would love to have all of these qualities rolled into one. Like my wife.:o

Beautiful wood is mainly good to look at. Hell, a Toyota gets you from A to B. But if you could afford it, would you not want to own a supercar? I have no NEED to get this. But it's more about WANT. There is no rush, and my music is coming along fine. But it's more like getting a status symbol to say: "Yep, this is me. I'm there, and this guitar represents everything I've learnt about myself as a player over the last 20 years".

Again, this has never been a case about "better". There is no "better" at that top level. We're not comparing Agiles vs Andersons. We're talking about what colour you'd like your Ferrari to be.

If we worked only on quantifiable results, then we all only need 2 guitars at the most. But that's rarely the case, is it?

mattmccloskey
08-19-2009, 07:14 AM
agreed..... if the "lust"-thing acts as a distraction to your music,
rather than as musico-aesthetically nutritional substance.
but, it doesn't matter:
that's for individuals to decide, not committees, afaict.


sorry for the partial quote, there.

have you ever spoken in any depth to mr. dapergolas
about his own highly & carefully developed rationale, vis ل vis timber-choices,
or the methodology employed to find & develop those woods, matt?
this may not change your mind about such things, but..... it may do.

(btw: i think the word you meant to use, above, was "principle", yeah?)

dt / spltrcl

Spelling error corrected... now as to the matter of your punctuation...;)

No, I have not spoken with him, but I don't see what difference that could make. It's like asking why chocolate ice cream is better than vanilla. What attributes he feels are "better" are not universal truths for all humans. Neither are my preferences or those of John Suhr, Tom Anderson, or anybody else.
Don't get me wrong- I am sure it would be an interesting viewpoint, and informative, but conclusions of preference are, by their nature, impossible to quantify.
If such a thing could be isolated, the most that could be said is something like "this particular piece of wood contributes to a noticeable spike at 5KHZ". That still wouldn't translate to being somehow preferable to everyone.

mattmccloskey
08-19-2009, 07:26 AM
:facepalm Yeah... and a Stradivarius isn't a "better" violin either. :bong

No, in many cases it is not. How many orchestras have you performed with?

The reason those violins are prized is a combination of 1) scarcity, 2) the age of the instrument (not the age of the wood when it was constructed), 3)the construction and finishing methods employed by the builder and the historical significance of the instrument.

There are other instruments that sound and function just as well, and the folks who sit to the right of me in the viola section share this sentiment with me frequently.

Last point - the prized tone in many of the old stringed instruments, as it relates to age, is from years and years of playing. The age of the wood is not the primary factor, but the many years it has been vibrating in the form of an instrument. This has nothing to do with "old growth" wood.

mattmccloskey
08-19-2009, 07:40 AM
Very well said.

Hey Tim, is that you? Long time no see, hope all is well!

aarondavis
08-19-2009, 07:57 AM
Spelling error corrected... now as to the matter of your punctuation...;)

No, I have not spoken with him, but I don't see what difference that could make. It's like asking why chocolate ice cream is better than vanilla. What attributes he feels are "better" are not universal truths for all humans. Neither are my preferences or those of John Suhr, Tom Anderson, or anybody else.

Although they may not be universal truths, all splatt is saying is that as meticulous as Stefan appears to be, he probably has some pretty empirical reasoning that 1. may or 2. may not change your mind. Any different physical attribute (s) to the way in which wood grows will most certainly change the tonal equation. To the good, to the bad, the beholder decides. Just taking a guess here... but if a piece of wood has been at the bottom of a like for 100 years without the possibility of tree farmers "enhancing" the growth in any way, I'm sure the difference can be scientifically quantified.

Joe F
08-19-2009, 08:18 AM
>There isn't any reason musically for old wood or beautiful wood to be 'better'. It's not like a tree gets old and suddenly becomes somehow better at creating a solid body electric guitar. What scientific principal would be at work that could dictate such a thing?

there are several resources on the internet if you search to understand the answer. you are right, people are a bit too quick to just say "old", but D'Pergo for example uses river recovered wood (possibly other types), and is very choosey (I don't know his selection process).

River recovered wood often has the inner cells eaten by microorganisms and it changes the tonal properties of the wood. Like in a classical guitar top of spruce that requires break-in - it's the sap migrating away from the most vibrated areas of the that constitutes break-in - the wood without the inner materal vibrates "better". The river recovered stuff has less of the material in it and has resonent qualities that are different. I did not say better because that's a matter of taste. The river recovered wood can range in their logging cut dates as far back as several hundred years from the logging going on very early in US history (or predating the US as a country). So that means trees that were already very mature were cut several hundred years ago.

the other thing that you can get from older wood is you can choose grain patters that are less available or not available for wood recently cut. for example, the little ice age created tight and very consistent grain patterns in the Alps spruce that Stradavarius and other Cremonese builders were using. After all of this time, people have realized that this wood has a major factor in the sound. You can also be choosy and cut in a way that gives you tight on one side and wider on the other (there are some famous strads IIRC that show him experimenting with a mix to balance low strings and high).

old non river recovered wood can be desireable as it's been through seasonal changes etc. as it was used in that barn or floor. come time to make a guitar neck or body, it can be pretty darn stable.

the other thing you can't get from older wood - sub-species that we've wiped off the planet or that you are not able to harvest anymore.

is there anything wrong with getting maple from the usual sources? nope. my guitars sound fine to me. but I would like to experiment with such wood some day, I think there is likely to be a legit difference.

J.T. Guitar
08-19-2009, 08:23 AM
No, in many cases it is not. How many orchestras have you performed with?

The reason those violins are prized is a combination of 1) scarcity, 2) the age of the instrument (not the age of the wood when it was constructed), 3)the construction and finishing methods employed by the builder and the historical significance of the instrument.

There are other instruments that sound and function just as well, and the folks who sit to the right of me in the viola section share this sentiment with me frequently.

Last point - the prized tone in many of the old stringed instruments, as it relates to age, is from years and years of playing. The age of the wood is not the primary factor, but the many years it has been vibrating in the form of an instrument. This has nothing to do with "old growth" wood.

Do you actually think that the density, porousness, age, and treatment of wood makes no difference in tone? Show me a luthier that agrees with you.

Stefan knows more about wood and it's properties than most anyone in the world. Why do you think Mr. Suhr followed the leader and started offering "old growth" wood? However, Stefan's techniques are very specialized. His wood secrets are not really able to be replicated by other builders.

As far as why Stradivarius violins are so amazing; that has been studied for hundreds of years. Some think that Antonio Stradivari treated the wood with Potassium Borate, Sodium, and a mixure of honey and egg white.

Another story is the most fantastic examples of the instruments have very consistent density of the wood. Cemona Italy (where Stradivarius' were made) is located on the side of the Po river. Back in Stradivari's day, there was not the creature comforts of indoor plumbing. Therefore there was said to be a high content of sewage in the water there. Some think that the wood used to make the best Stradivarius violins was pulled from the river and dried. Others think Antonio purposely subjected his wood to his own pee. Either way, it is thought that the highly acidic content of the water caused a perfect combination of porousness and density.

So what are the morals of the story?
1) Wood makes a difference.
2) The next time someone says your guitar sounds like piss, it might be a compliment... :p

mattmccloskey
08-19-2009, 08:59 AM
I am very familiar with these discussions on old wood. None of the arguments presented prove anything in terms of making an electric guitar more or less desirable in it's function.

Does wood make a difference? Sure, one piece of wood is different from another, where did I say otherwise?

The question is simply how much does that variation make an audible difference in the final equation of an electric guitar that is wrapped in a finish, mounted with metal hardware, filtered through magnetic pickups and amplified? Further, how does that difference relate in any way to "better"? It could easily turn out that older wood sounds like crap, or simply sounds a little different, or that those differences are so subtle as to render them unimportant in real life application.

J.T. Guitar - just as a point of interest: Bob Benedetto did in fact build an archtop guitar out of 'inferior' woods, if I recall correctly it was pine, for the sole purpose of proving that the construction techniques and execution were far more important than the perceived value of the wood. I have never played that guitar, but it is reportedly up to his standard as an instrument.

I have also had hours of conversations with Kim Walker about this subject, who is very skeptical of the claims regarding wood proposed by many luthiers.

aarondavis
08-19-2009, 09:17 AM
Case closed I guess... :cool:

Matt knows best, so pack it up.

J.T. Guitar
08-19-2009, 09:17 AM
IDoes wood make a difference? Sure, one piece of wood is different from another, where did I say otherwise?


Umm, here;

There isn't any reason musically for old wood or beautiful wood to be 'better'. It's not like a tree gets old and suddenly becomes somehow better at creating a solid body electric guitar. What scientific principle would be at work that could dictate such a thing?

The same scientific principle that concludes one type of tonewood sounds very different than another. Even two pieces of the same wood species can sound drastically different from each other. It comes down to cellular make-up, density, and porousness. Careful selection of tonewood can make a very significant difference in the guitar's tone.

mattmccloskey
08-19-2009, 09:22 AM
I think there is likely to be a legit difference.[/QUOTE]

I have to address this again, simply because my point seems to be getting lost- difference is just that - DIFFERENCE.

There is also difference from one piece of wood to another, from one species to another, and even day to day depending on humidity!

That this difference translates to equaling 'superior' for an electric guitar is a leap that I can't rationally justify, and I don't see any proof of it anywhere.

The evidence would be compelling if D'pergo's or similar guitars were somehow easily identified and instantly preferred by everyone upon hearing them played, but that simply isn't the case.
I am simply skeptical of any claim, even commonly held opinions, until I see proof.
Show me a blind listening test where 1) the correct wood and age is identified, and 2) that specific tonal properties are 'better' than others.

mattmccloskey
08-19-2009, 09:26 AM
Umm, here;

WTF? I said there was no reason to think it BETTER. BETTER is not the same thing as DIFFERENT!

mattmccloskey
08-19-2009, 09:27 AM
Case closed I guess... :cool:

Matt knows best, so pack it up.

Ok, so you have to be sarcastic and snarky because I disagree?

J.T. Guitar
08-19-2009, 09:28 AM
The evidence would be compelling if D'pergo's or similar guitars were somehow easily identified and instantly preferred by everyone upon hearing them played, but that simply isn't the case.

Have you ever played one?

FWIW- They are preferred by a great number of musicians who have actually played one. Have no doubts; there is something "special" about Stefan's guitars.

shawntp
08-19-2009, 09:28 AM
I think many of us (and it seems especially true with strat quests), just try to find that ultimate holy grail strat that we really connect with on some sub-conscious emotional level.

Some guys on this forum are more utilitarian about our instruments and some of us are more romantics.

Some people want to have lots of great guitars/options and just pick up and swap around. I always have been one to try and get really deep connections with specific instruments. Its nice that high end builders are offering little special designs/materials/etc as some of us want/need that to really connect. A 600 year old neck might only render slight changes in tone or feel but it might also help some of us out there make mental/emotional connections to these instruments. Not neccesarily from a cost/expense perspective - but from a "this instrument is really something special and exceptional" perspective.

I think what detemple and d'pergo are doing is putting romance into their instrument builds and offering something that special/rare/and built just for you. You end up with instruments that are said to be exceptional and valid options among the best out there but you also end up with something that might be a lot easier to form a tight bond with.

The only instrument to date that I have absolutely bonded with to the point that I love it like no other guitar is my Collings I-35. Every other guitar I have owned may have been great in its own right but I really feel the collings is something exceptional - a guitar I just yearn to hold if you will - and if I lost it I would be devastated.

I am sure this sounds crazy to the utilitarian players - I wish my brain were wired like them but its not. So I am one of those unfortunate "holy grail" types.

I have been on a quest for some time to find a strat that will do what my Collings does for me as my holy grail 335.

splatt
08-19-2009, 09:28 AM
Spelling error corrected... now as to the matter of your punctuation...;)
i'm sorry if i offended you;
i certainly didn't mean to be rude.

No, I have not spoken with him, but I don't see what difference that could make.
thanks for sharing your viewpoint.

dt / spltrcl

aarondavis
08-19-2009, 09:33 AM
Matt, I think a point *you* are missing is that people *in this thread* aren't stating that any particular wood that, D'Pergo for instance chooses, is emphatically "superior". Just saying there could and should be a quantifiable scientific/empirical selection criteria that could get fairly reliable results to what the *specific* luthier considers "superior".

John Alexander
08-19-2009, 09:34 AM
...the grain on my ash/maple AVC...along with many other D'Pergo's I have seen, looks different...I still have yet to see a guitar neck like mine...

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv344/johnnyalex/JohnsDPergo2.jpg

...my neck was riftsawn...I've seen some D'Pergo's that are quartersawn...

...the feel and look/color of Stefan's maple necks is very unique in my humble opinion...

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv344/johnnyalex/JohnsDPergo.jpg

mude
08-19-2009, 09:39 AM
Fun discussion and I hope the OP finds his perfect dream guitar.

Something to note is that a custom build can result in a variety of unplanned results - both better and worse than "dreamed" I suspect. So far, one of my "dream" guitars is a custom build that was done for me, but all of the others have been just random things that I stumbled upon. For those, I did not know the age of the wood, or construction techniques particularly, or other details. I simply knew that I liked the guitar a lot.

In some cases, I tried to learn some of the details for fun (or in the goofy hope of replicating portions in other instruments). But for me, it is generally the sum of the parts that make guitars great and it is tough to distinguish where a guitar mainly derived its greatness (the builder and his skill and choices I suspect).

Everyone one of the builders mentioned in this thread is talented and worth of a look IMO. Choose what is your favorite and fits your budget. So far, high price has not equated to being a favorite for me. For example, my favorite Tyler so far has been a "Joe." I suspect I could get another "Joe" and it would not be a favorite. Just happen to like the way this one came together.

Evan.

J.T. Guitar
08-19-2009, 09:39 AM
...the grain on my ash/maple AVC...along with many other D'Pergo's I have seen, looks different...I still have yet to see a guitar neck like mine...

...my neck was riftsawn...I've seen some D'Pergo's that are quartersawn...

...the feel and look/color of the Stefan's maple necks is very unique in my humble opinion...



:agree Great selection John...

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh10/JT_Guitar/IMG_0037.jpg

mattmccloskey
08-19-2009, 09:40 AM
Splatt, I am not sure I understand your point in the partial quote at the end of your post.
My whole contention here is with the notion that one subjective conclusion can be drawn from any argument for or against the use of any material. The specific reason a conversation with Stephen wouldn't make a difference in this point is that it is an UNPROVABLE notion. No amount of insight or explanation can change it.
What makes a sound 'better' is totally dependent on the situation and taste of the listener and creator. How could that concept be changed by a conversation with anyone?

shawntp
08-19-2009, 09:44 AM
I really like the looks of the "blonde" where you can see the dark grain underneath...

http://www.dpergoguitars.com/gallery/guitars/case/case_1570-lg.jpg http://www.dpergoguitars.com/gallery/guitars/0309/0309_8322-lg.jpg http://www.dpergoguitars.com/gallery/guitars/0131/0131_7646-lg.jpg

http://www.dpergoguitars.com/gallery/guitars/trio/trio_7753-lg.jpg http://www.dpergoguitars.com/gallery/guitars/0264/0264_8493-lg.jpg

mullytron
08-19-2009, 09:48 AM
Got to love that Mary Kay finish...

mattmccloskey
08-19-2009, 09:50 AM
Matt, I think a point *you* are missing is that people *in this thread* aren't stating that any particular wood that, D'Pergo for instance chooses, is emphatically "superior". Just saying there could and should be a quantifiable scientific/empirical selection criteria that could get fairly reliable results to what the *specific* luthier considers "superior".

aarondavis, that may be the case with you, but I am directly responding to J.T. Guitar who began this line of argument with his sarcastic 'face palm - Stradivarius' post. What other conclusion can be drawn from that??

aarondavis
08-19-2009, 09:52 AM
One thing I *will* emphatically state as fact. Tele's smoke ANY strat, the above pics prove it. Strats should just give it up. :bounce

CharAznable
08-19-2009, 09:52 AM
Life goal #27: Buy a D'Pergo

aarondavis
08-19-2009, 10:00 AM
I know what I'm probably going to ask is sacrilegious to many... but here goes.

Would Stefan do stainless steel frets and Dimarzio Areas on a Bakersfield?
:wave

J.T. Guitar
08-19-2009, 10:05 AM
Got to love that Mary Kay finish...

Since we are doing the DP Mary K. show and tell...

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh10/JT_Guitar/IMG_0066.jpg

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh10/JT_Guitar/IMG_0068.jpg

J.T. Guitar
08-19-2009, 10:13 AM
aarondavis, that may be the case with you, but I am directly responding to J.T. Guitar who began this line of argument with his sarcastic 'face palm - Stradivarius' post. What other conclusion can be drawn from that??

Ok, I appologize for the sarcasm. However, your contention that there is no significant differences in the sound and quality of wood selection struck me as odd.

If you have never played a D'Pergo, you wouldn't understand, and that's ok.

Your agrument here has about as much credibility as, "Well, I've never driven a Mercedes, but I still don't understand how it can be any better than a chevy." You are right in the fact that both will get you from point A to point B, but bottom line; one is a far superior product. But then again, superiority is in the eye (or ear) of the beholder.

wstsidela
08-19-2009, 10:25 AM
I love my D'Pergo and would never sell it. My search for the perfect strat is over. Now, I'm searching for the perfect Les Paul. Stefan said he might build me one :D FWIW I'm visiting the shop in the Spring. I'll take pictures.

John Alexander
08-19-2009, 10:27 AM
I love my D'Pergo and would never sell it. My search for the perfect strat is over. Now, I'm searching for the perfect Les Paul. Stefan said he might build me one.

...check out my Grosh '59 Spec:

http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv344/johnnyalex/DSC02841_2.jpg

...8.5 lbs...chambered...

...anyway, back to D'Pergo/DeTemple

wstsidela
08-19-2009, 10:29 AM
Wow! Nice guitar, JA. I need to come over and test drive it.

atquinn
08-19-2009, 10:30 AM
WTF? I said there was no reason to think it BETTER. BETTER is not the same thing as DIFFERENT!

The whipping you are receiving just goes to show how some people let their kool-aid drinking get in the way of their reading comprehension. Ah the Gear Page :rotflmao

-Austin

J.T. Guitar
08-19-2009, 10:40 AM
The whipping you are receiving just goes to show how some people let their kool-aid drinking get in the way of their reading comprehension. Ah the Gear Page :rotflmao

-Austin

Let me appologize BEFORE the sarcasm this time...

So, stating that one guitar is "better" than another because of a builder's selection of wood is the same as entering into a suicide pact with a psychotic madman? Nice comparison!

:facepalm

splatt
08-19-2009, 10:47 AM
unless the "tone" changes, here,
this thread is gonna get locked.

is there any chance that clearer strands of reasonability might prevail,
minus the personal attacks?

if not:
pile on, & start the clocks on "countdown".

dt / spltrcl

T.Wesley
08-19-2009, 10:52 AM
You guys really never learn, do you?

Closed.

--chiba