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Leo27
11-27-2009, 07:22 PM
We apologize for your lengthy wait on the:

502583000001000 Bugera V22 22W 1x12 Tube Gtr Combo Amp Blk

We have just learned that our expected shipment has been delayed for a further unknown period. Rather than ask you to wait any longer, we would like to offer you an alternative:

Budda Superdrive 18 1x12 Combo $349.99

To take advantage of this offer, please call our Customer Service department at 888-566-6123 and let us know that you would like to recieve the alternative product. If we do not hear from you, the Bugera V22 22W 1x12 Tube Gtr Combo Amp Blk will remain on backorder and we will ship it to you as soon as it is recieved at our distribution center.

Thank you for being a Music 123 customer and please accept our apology for this unexpected delay.


The Music 123 Team



FIXED

grizdeluxe
11-27-2009, 07:34 PM
http://jeremypryor.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/bait-and-switch.jpg

TomStrat
11-27-2009, 07:42 PM
Well, as much as i love mine its going back to GC right now. mine has started cutting out like some others have reported. bummer because i really like the amp. I wouldn't expect to see these V22's anytime soon. i Have heard they are trying to fix the issues they have had with the amps. I have NO proof of that but i did hear it from two people that are fairly reliable sources (one is a friend who works for Behringer). You can take the for what its worth but i know for sure there have been a couple of these returned for similar issues at my local GC. Ill wait for them to sort out the issues and get another one later because it is a great sounding amp.

Leo27
11-28-2009, 06:15 AM
This place has a January 12, 2010 date listed.

http://www.guitartrader.com/!ZvcGKJp4vhOQzvwWgYKOzg!/Bugera-V22-Combo-Amplifier-s?AID=10513524&PID=2585066&SID=h14gy70l

salsage
11-28-2009, 06:45 AM
This place has a January 12, 2010 date listed.

http://www.guitartrader.com/!ZvcGKJp4vhOQzvwWgYKOzg!/Bugera-V22-Combo-Amplifier-s?AID=10513524&PID=2585066&SID=h14gy70l



They finally have a solid date!

December 21, 2012
:rotflmao:rotflmao:rotflmao:rotflmao:rotflmao

grizdeluxe
11-28-2009, 07:36 AM
I'm thinking of picking up a V-55 head and putting JJ 6V6's in.

That would make for a pretty good setup IMO.

grizdeluxe
11-28-2009, 07:48 AM
Well, as much as i love mine its going back to GC right now. mine has started cutting out like some others have reported. bummer because i really like the amp. I wouldn't expect to see these V22's anytime soon. i Have heard they are trying to fix the issues they have had with the amps. I have NO proof of that but i did hear it from two people that are fairly reliable sources (one is a friend who works for Behringer). You can take the for what its worth but i know for sure there have been a couple of these returned for similar issues at my local GC. Ill wait for them to sort out the issues and get another one later because it is a great sounding amp.



Did you troubleshoot the tubes? I had a similar problem with the stock EL 84's, and since replacing them have not had a problem.

Leo27
11-28-2009, 11:15 AM
Great. Just got an order cancellation Email from Music123. Customer service says if the order isn't filled within a certain time, the order is automatically cancelled due to the time period when the credit card account can be drawn upon after the initiation of the order. She had to create a new order and I made sure it was with free shipping and $70 off. I lost my place on the list and there was nothing she could do about that. But, as a consolation she said many more were coming in that she had orders for so not to worry.

BTW...she said the order should be in shortly as she had a 11/23/09 arrival date. :messedup Poor girl is out of the loop.

TomStrat
11-28-2009, 12:51 PM
Did you troubleshoot the tubes? I had a similar problem with the stock EL 84's, and since replacing them have not had a problem.

Yes i did, Even tried a few different sets, i thought that it solved the problem but a few days later the amp started cutting out again. I tried the Bugera tubes in another EL84 amp that i have and had no issues.

existentialmelt
11-28-2009, 12:53 PM
Damn, that sucks about those late shipments. Offering up a B-52, eh? Come on, man!:bitch

I picked up one (the only one) at GC using the $50 off coupon they sent. I'm really digging it but I still might put in some other tubes. Anyone know what tubes might make it roar a bit more? I want to see how dirty it can get without the help of pedals.

VanR
11-28-2009, 01:00 PM
My local GC has a V22 that someone bought and returned before the 30 days was up. I saw it sitting there and asked if it blew up. Sales guy says "no someone played a gig with it and brought it back". I might could get a good deal on it, but then I would probably not have a warranty. I'm starting to think about a V55 head anyway. 6L6's are my second favorite tube after EL84's and the V55's seem to be readily available. And I like head/cab better than combos.

GrooveSlinger
11-28-2009, 01:30 PM
IMHO my V55HD (normal input, triode mode) through my 2x12 cab is the best tone I've EVER achieved. These heads are whoppers though. Probably as big as a V22. But DANG what a great sound.

Leo27
11-28-2009, 03:23 PM
Damn, that sucks about those late shipments. Offering up a B-52, eh? Come on, man!:bitch

I picked up one (the only one) at GC using the $50 off coupon they sent. I'm really digging it but I still might put in some other tubes. Anyone know what tubes might make it roar a bit more? I want to see how dirty it can get without the help of pedals.


I sold my Crate Palomino V16 before I ordered the V22. I used JJ EL84s and found that Hi-Gain specified TungSol 12ax7 Re-Issues gave me quite a nice Marshally tone/distortion.

existentialmelt
11-28-2009, 10:02 PM
IMHO my V55HD (normal input, triode mode) through my 2x12 cab is the best tone I've EVER achieved. These heads are whoppers though. Probably as big as a V22. But DANG what a great sound.

Awesome band, man. Coyote Kings!:dude

OldToneDog
11-28-2009, 10:46 PM
I'm thinking of picking up a V-55 head and putting JJ 6V6's in.

That would make for a pretty good setup IMO.

Will the bias adjustment in the v55 support the tube swap? I'd be really interested in the tonal differences between 6L6's and the 6V6's in this amp. If you decide to pull the trigger, I'd be interested in hearing some A/B comparison sound clips.

grizdeluxe
11-29-2009, 12:23 AM
Will the bias adjustment in the v55 support the tube swap? I'd be really interested in the tonal differences between 6L6's and the 6V6's in this amp. If you decide to pull the trigger, I'd be interested in hearing some A/B comparison sound clips.


The JJ 6V6S will handle the voltage just fine. I rolled a pair into a JTM-30 and it made it more deluxe like. Nice early breakup on the clean channel.

OldToneDog
11-29-2009, 12:52 AM
Very cool. I came across a good deal on a quartet of the short bottle USA made GT-5881's. A very different 5881/6L6 type to my ears. These were rated as 5's but the tube's character seemed more 6V6 like than a typical 6L6. Not as much low end but a very sweet top end and much earlier breakup than the previous set of 6L6's that I had in my amp. If you can find some of those, you may want to add them to your "taste testing".

Leo27
11-30-2009, 02:44 PM
...I'm recording another set with a LP type guitar and my Tele. This time I'll focus on one of the things the amp does best. That middle ground of clean/dirty that works so well with the guitars volume. The LP will be more of a rocker focusing on the beefy grind that it also does well.

GRIZ! :wave
Got this vid ready to go yet? Been waiting for someone to do some power chording with a Les Paul on the V22.

Will Chen
11-30-2009, 03:12 PM
Will,
you did a really great job in that demo. I think you have a good format & I hope to see more from you in the future.

It would be nice to see some demos of some upper-end amps also, just for reference.

good on ya!

Thanks for the love. With regards to upper-end amps, there are plenty including all the mags and right here on TGP ezine which cover them. My interest is in gear priced for the masses...

Well, as much as i love mine its going back to GC right now. mine has started cutting out like some others have reported. bummer because i really like the amp. I wouldn't expect to see these V22's anytime soon. i Have heard they are trying to fix the issues they have had with the amps. I have NO proof of that but i did hear it from two people that are fairly reliable sources (one is a friend who works for Behringer). You can take the for what its worth but i know for sure there have been a couple of these returned for similar issues at my local GC. Ill wait for them to sort out the issues and get another one later because it is a great sounding amp.

Sorry to hear that! Man, I hope I don't have issues with mine...

grizdeluxe
11-30-2009, 04:10 PM
GRIZ! :wave
Got this vid ready to go yet? Been waiting for someone to do some power chording with a Les Paul on the V22.


Sorry! I have 11 month old twins and we have been without our nanny for a week so I'll be working on it soon. Being self employed has been a challenge without her!

I was thinking some straight up power chord 70's/80's stuff like ZZ,UFO, and Priest. Any requests???

bemeyer
11-30-2009, 07:20 PM
Ok, I've just uploaded my very first Youtube vids of the V22...or of anything for that matter.

Nothing perfect just some wanking. Used the new Zoom Q3. Comments welcome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnogAU0PM1c

OldToneDog
11-30-2009, 07:49 PM
Sounds good. The beginning sounded a bit like a higher gain AC/DC kind of a thing.

How much of the drive was the Zoom? All of it?

gtTelejoe
11-30-2009, 09:15 PM
Sounds good. The beginning sounded a bit like a higher gain AC/DC kind of a thing.

How much of the drive was the Zoom? All of it?

The Zoom Q3 is a vid camera.

Leo27
12-01-2009, 06:09 AM
...I was thinking some straight up power chord 70's/80's stuff like ZZ,UFO, and Priest. Any requests???

That classic rock is fine, Griz...:)

gtTelejoe
12-01-2009, 07:58 AM
UFO Lights Out please...

Leo27
12-01-2009, 09:08 AM
UFO Natural Thing

OldToneDog
12-01-2009, 02:43 PM
The Zoom Q3 is a vid camera.

Doh! How embarrassing...thought it was a new tone toy from Zoom.

CitizenCain
12-01-2009, 07:01 PM
Ok I'm officially going off the deep end and building a cabinet for my V-22. I like this thing enough that it deserves a proper cabinet. Not that the stock one is bad but I own a custom cabinet business so why not??!!

I'm thinking all Walnut dovetailed construction, I could even go full on sleeper mode as the chassis can be top loaded. I prefer controls on top so that will probably be the way I go with it.

Anything ever come of the cab idea? I'd sort of like to get a head cab made for mine. It sounds wickedly good through my Avatar Vintage 1x12 with a Celestion S-150 Sidewinder installed. That would be a sweet setup.

grizdeluxe
12-01-2009, 09:14 PM
Cain I bought the Walnut and prepped it for the dovetails, but they sit as I'm up to my ears in work. I might be taking a break around the holidays and then I can finish the cabinet. It sure does sound nice through a better cab.

existentialmelt
12-02-2009, 11:01 AM
I'd like to get a little more gain from my V-22. Can I get that with different tubes? Any suggestions?

Will Chen
12-02-2009, 11:38 AM
I'd like to get a little more gain from my V-22. Can I get that with different tubes? Any suggestions?

More gain? Sure, try out an Ibanez TS9! ;)

existentialmelt
12-02-2009, 12:01 PM
More gain? Sure, try out an Ibanez TS9! ;)

I have an MXR Distortion + clone that I built and that sounds pretty good, but maybe slightly noisy depending on how much gain I have going. I'd like to get some of that from the amp itself. Nothing drastic, just a bit more. I love the tone and clarity I'm getting but would like it just a tad nastier.:rockin

CitizenCain
12-02-2009, 02:05 PM
It sure does sound nice through a better cab.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. When I run mine into an Avatar Vintage 1x12 (24" x 20" x 11", good wood) it sounds huge! Even with a good speaker in the stock cab it sounds small compared to running through the Avatar. That's why I think a nice head cab would be sweet. I've got a custom-built 2x10 that's the same size and construction as my Avatar cab that would work great too, I bet.

bemeyer
12-02-2009, 03:54 PM
I have an MXR Distortion + clone that I built and that sounds pretty good, but maybe slightly noisy depending on how much gain I have going. I'd like to get some of that from the amp itself. Nothing drastic, just a bit more. I love the tone and clarity I'm getting but would like it just a tad nastier.:rockin
Have you tried using the MXR with level up and gain almost off, for a clean boost? That's what I do with my Fulltone OCD and love it!

OldToneDog
12-02-2009, 04:29 PM
New Musician's Friend promise date: 12-18-2009 :rolleyes:

united
12-03-2009, 05:33 AM
Hi guys,
Dont know if this was posted somewhere before, i didnt read all the Threads.

I discovered the V22 last month.
I m a big fan of the VOX AC30 with Bluebulldog.
The Vox, as well the AC15 are doing very well with a pedalboard in front.
Has anybody experience with the V22 and Pedals. I use the Devidedby13 Joyride (my absolutely favorite overdrive pedal [anybody interested in that information?, no, its a great pedal!!]), ts808, novadelay, some T-Rex Trem, WahWah, Keeley Compressor(for a nice clean sound on the VOXs) ....and some more.
How is the V22 dealing with pedals, as good, as the Vox?
What about in general, how far away is the V22 from VOX sound? Is this sound more or less possible on the V22?

Thanks for answering!
But anyway, i need to test this amp!
cheers

playing4one
12-03-2009, 07:08 AM
United, I have the V22 and I can tell you that it takes pedals really well. I have run all of my delay and mods in the loop and used the 2 channels for clean and overdrive and it was great. I have never actually gotten to play a vox first hand since I was always a Fender guy so I can't really tell you how close it is to that. I think the best feature on it is the penitode/triode switch. I love having the ability to cut my clean overhead down and really push the tubes without going deaf. By the way is your user name based off of the group Hillsong's United? Your set-up sounds pretty similar to Nigel Hendroff's.

Leo27
12-03-2009, 03:35 PM
Now Music123 has the December 18th availability date. :cool:

http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/shanghai_cargo.jpg

Pikesoldier
12-03-2009, 07:34 PM
been using an m13 through the fx loop on the amp lately. f'in great cheap setup for just about any tone i could think of. add in my superchamp for stereo delay and panned phaser sounds and its a low volume wet dream.

grizdeluxe
12-03-2009, 09:50 PM
I was looking to cop an aggressive old Marshall vibe so I ran my MXR 10 band EQ into the loop. I used the clean channel with the volume dimed and holy chit! I was in 70's rock heaven! Kicking on the Gain side for a lead boost was just as fun.

united
12-04-2009, 02:57 AM
playing4one, thanks for the information. Yea, its based on United from Hillsong. Yea, I based my setup on Michael guy chisslets, which is of course very similar to Hendroffs. I like there Guitar Sounds.
On the other hand I play kind of Funk / Jazz music. for that I use no pedals or stuff, just a "naked" clean-tube-amp.
So, would you recommend me the V22?
Which Fender Combo would you recommend me?? (which is not to loud)
I more or less dont care of the price of an amp, want to have a good quality and a nice tube- sound. but when the price is low and the quality is good (V22), even better!!

cheers

OldToneDog
12-04-2009, 04:25 AM
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/graphics/logo/mf_weblogo.gif (http://$clickthrough(header_logo,sourcecode,primary)$/)1-800-776-5173Guitar (http://$clickthrough(header_guitar,sourcecode,primary)$/)€Bass (http://$clickthrough(header_bass,sourcecode,primary)$/)€Keyboards (http://$clickthrough(header_keyboard,sourcecode,primary)$/)€Drums (http://$clickthrough(header_drum,sourcecode,primary)$/)€Live (http://$clickthrough(header_livesound,sourcecode,primary) $/)€Recording (http://$clickthrough(header_recording,sourcecode,primary) $/)€DJ (http://$clickthrough(header_dj,sourcecode,primary)$/)€Accessories (http://$clickthrough(header_accessories,sourcecode,primar y)$/)€Stupid Deal of the Day (http://$clickthrough(header_stupid,sourcecode,primary)$/) €Clearance (http://$clickthrough(header_clearance,sourcecode,primary) $/)Shop by Brand (http://$clickthrough(header_shopbybrand,sourcecode,primar y)$/)€Top Sellers (http://$clickthrough(header_topsellers,sourcecode,primary )$/)€New Products (http://$clickthrough(header_newproducts,sourcecode,primar y)$/)€Preorder Items (http://$clickthrough(header_preorderitems,sourcecode,prim ary)$/)€Products with Gifts (http://$clickthrough(header_productswithgifts,sourcecode, primary)$/)€Rebate Items (http://$clickthrough(header_rebateitems,sourcecode,primar y)$/)Your Order Has Been Shipped
Tracking

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QtyDescriptionTracking InformationShipping method1.00Bugera V22 22W 1x12 Tube Gtr Combo Amp Blk</B>
502583 001 03

salsage
12-04-2009, 05:11 AM
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/graphics/logo/mf_weblogo.gif (http://$clickthrough(header_logo,sourcecode,primary)$/)1-800-776-5173Guitar (http://$clickthrough(header_guitar,sourcecode,primary)$/)€Bass (http://$clickthrough(header_bass,sourcecode,primary)$/)€Keyboards (http://$clickthrough(header_keyboard,sourcecode,primary)$/)€Drums (http://$clickthrough(header_drum,sourcecode,primary)$/)€Live (http://$clickthrough(header_livesound,sourcecode,primary) $/)€Recording (http://$clickthrough(header_recording,sourcecode,primary) $/)€DJ (http://$clickthrough(header_dj,sourcecode,primary)$/)€Accessories (http://$clickthrough(header_accessories,sourcecode,primar y)$/)€Stupid Deal of the Day (http://$clickthrough(header_stupid,sourcecode,primary)$/) €Clearance (http://$clickthrough(header_clearance,sourcecode,primary) $/)Shop by Brand (http://$clickthrough(header_shopbybrand,sourcecode,primar y)$/)€Top Sellers (http://$clickthrough(header_topsellers,sourcecode,primary )$/)€New Products (http://$clickthrough(header_newproducts,sourcecode,primar y)$/)€Preorder Items (http://$clickthrough(header_preorderitems,sourcecode,prim ary)$/)€Products with Gifts (http://$clickthrough(header_productswithgifts,sourcecode, primary)$/)€Rebate Items (http://$clickthrough(header_rebateitems,sourcecode,primar y)$/)Your Order Has Been Shipped
Tracking

Thank you for choosing MusiciansFriend.com
QtyDescriptionTracking InformationShipping method1.00Bugera V22 22W 1x12 Tube Gtr Combo Amp Blk</B>
502583 001 03


Got the same email

uke
12-04-2009, 05:47 AM
Same email, it's on its way.

Leo27
12-04-2009, 06:40 AM
Me too! Shipped!:banana

playing4one
12-04-2009, 07:10 AM
playing4one, thanks for the information. Yea, its based on United from Hillsong. Yea, I based my setup on Michael guy chisslets, which is of course very similar to Hendroffs. I like there Guitar Sounds.
On the other hand I play kind of Funk / Jazz music. for that I use no pedals or stuff, just a "naked" clean-tube-amp.
So, would you recommend me the V22?
Which Fender Combo would you recommend me?? (which is not to loud)
I more or less dont care of the price of an amp, want to have a good quality and a nice tube- sound. but when the price is low and the quality is good (V22), even better!!

cheers

Good stuff man. I am a huge Hillsongs & United fan. I really love my V22 and would highly suggest it. I have been told that it is very Vox like but I have never had the fortune of playing a real ac30 so I take it for what it is worth. I really love the overdrive channel but the clean channel is really good also. I think for the lowest volume on the Fender side of things you can't go wrong with the Blues Jr.

united
12-04-2009, 07:25 AM
thanks mate.
So do you play United stuff with the V22?
Stay HOPE + FAITH + LOVE.
Cheers
I will go and test it!

Spudman
12-04-2009, 07:32 AM
I just got a notice that mine has been shipped as well. ..........waiting patiently.

playing4one
12-04-2009, 07:45 AM
thanks mate.
So do you play United stuff with the V22?
Stay HOPE + FAITH + LOVE.
Cheers
I will go and test it!

I have used it to cover Hillsongs, United, Israel Houghton, Eddie James, etc........

I think for the price it is a great amp. I run mine with an M13 and have another setup with a analog delay, Nova Delay, Reverb & Noise Suppressor as a back-up. I used the back-up rig when our church got to open for Lincoln Brewster a couple of weeks ago, I did not have the M13 yet. I used the clean channel just at the point of break-up and the overdrive channel for the heavier sounds along with the solos and it worked great. The triode mode is great for when you need to keep the volume a little lower but still get some break-up on it.

To all of you guys that just got the e-mails saying that they shipped, CONGRATS:banana

CitizenCain
12-04-2009, 09:49 PM
OK, more speaker swapping today. Emi Tonker 16 ohm in the stock cab. Wow! I thought the GB1216 I had in there was nice, and it was, but the Tonker is another thing altogether. Huge, tight bass, full rich mids and sweet highs. Incredible string separation and clarity.

So here's my current config:

NOS Tung-Sol 12AX7 in V1
NOS Tung-Sol 5751 in V2
GE 12AT7 in V3
Sylvania 6BQ5s in V4/5
Tonker 16ohm speaker

Woohoo! She's a sweet piece for sure :D

Glad to hear the wait is over for you guys finally. Well, at least the wait of "if". Now it's just the regular wait for the brown truck :banana

salsage
12-05-2009, 06:02 AM
OK, more speaker swapping today. Emi Tonker 16 ohm in the stock cab. Wow! I thought the GB1216 I had in there was nice, and it was, but the Tonker is another thing altogether. Huge, tight bass, full rich mids and sweet highs. Incredible string separation and clarity.

So here's my current config:

NOS Tung-Sol 12AX7 in V1
NOS Tung-Sol 5751 in V2
GE 12AT7 in V3
Sylvania 6BQ5s in V4/5
Tonker 16ohm speaker

Woohoo! She's a sweet piece for sure :D

Glad to hear the wait is over for you guys finally. Well, at least the wait of "if". Now it's just the regular wait for the brown truck :banana

Thanks for that:wave
I have an 8ohm Eminence Governor and a variety of pre amp tubes I can play around with. Thats about all the tinkering I can afford right now.

A 5751 & a 12AT7 in v2 & v3 must have cleaned it up a lot.
Please tell me more of what this did for the amp.
Thanks

CitizenCain
12-05-2009, 08:22 AM
Thanks for that:wave
I have an 8ohm Eminence Governor and a variety of pre amp tubes I can play around with. Thats about all the tinkering I can afford right now.


That's all I've got, too. And really, when you're talking about a PCB amp, that's about all you can easily do anyway.


A 5751 & a 12AT7 in v2 & v3 must have cleaned it up a lot.
Please tell me more of what this did for the amp.
Thanks

I've never been a fan of a 12AX7 PI. The AT7 provides much better current handling capability. They always feel better to me than the AX7 does.

The clean channel sound is a bit warmer than stock, which is a good thing IMO. While sounding good in stock form, I found it to be a touch stiff and glassy. It also responds super to the Boost button now. In stock trim I thought the Boost made it sound boxy, now it still sounds great but with a fuller middle.

The OD channel is tamed just to my liking. I'm not a big gain user to start with and in stock form the OD channel was way too much for me. I couldn't use it with the Gain setting past about 2-3. Now I can set the Gain to 5-6 and get a nicer sounding crunch with more definition than the stock sound.

The speaker is way louder than stock. Makes the amp totally usable in Triode form which, for me, is the perfect sound on this amp. I use Triode probably 90% of the time. With the stock speaker I was having slight volume problems at practice and small gigs. The Emi GB12 I put in first solved that. The Tonker is as loud or louder than that. It's little smoother sounding than the GB12 as well. For the stuff I play, surf, '50s twang, rockabilly,'60s Brit pop, etc it's perfect!

popthree
12-05-2009, 10:16 AM
Will, what I did hear sounds great! :drool

Also, I really dig your playing!


The Tele forum really turned me off. It was like dealing with a bunch of brats and bullies. :bkw

Plano rocks!:dude
i think there is at least some bad behavior on every forum. the tdpri is generally a well run forum with mostly good, respectful members. the bugera thread on tdpri is not bad. there are as many voices there praising the v22 as poopooing it. i've read a lot worse on other forums.. a lot worse. tdpri is an ok place.

existentialmelt
12-05-2009, 10:47 AM
Thanks for that:wave
I have an 8ohm Eminence Governor and a variety of pre amp tubes I can play around with. Thats about all the tinkering I can afford right now.

A 5751 & a 12AT7 in v2 & v3 must have cleaned it up a lot.
Please tell me more of what this did for the amp.
Thanks

Let me know how that Eminence Governor sounds. That's what I'm leaning towards for mine.

salsage
12-05-2009, 11:30 AM
That's all I've got, too. And really, when you're talking about a PCB amp, that's about all you can easily do anyway.

I have an Eminence Governor and my choices will be that or the stock speaker.
Fortunately, I do have some tubes to tinker with.


I've never been a fan of a 12AX7 PI. The AT7 provides much better current handling capability. They always feel better to me than the AX7 does.

The clean channel sound is a bit warmer than stock, which is a good thing IMO. While sounding good in stock form, I found it to be a touch stiff and glassy. It also responds super to the Boost button now. In stock trim I thought the Boost made it sound boxy, now it still sounds great but with a fuller middle.

The OD channel is tamed just to my liking. I'm not a big gain user to start with and in stock form the OD channel was way too much for me. I couldn't use it with the Gain setting past about 2-3. Now I can set the Gain to 5-6 and get a nicer sounding crunch with more definition than the stock sound.

The speaker is way louder than stock. Makes the amp totally usable in Triode form which, for me, is the perfect sound on this amp. I use Triode probably 90% of the time. With the stock speaker I was having slight volume problems at practice and small gigs. The Emi GB12 I put in first solved that. The Tonker is as loud or louder than that. It's little smoother sounding than the GB12 as well. For the stuff I play, surf, '50s twang, rockabilly,'60s Brit pop, etc it's perfect!

Thanks for all that Good Info:)

salsage
12-05-2009, 11:50 AM
Let me know how that Eminence Governor sounds. That's what I'm leaning towards for mine.

The amp is due here Weds.
After a break in period I will do a swap and post my opinion here.
Although I expect the Eminence Governor to be superior, some have reported the stock speaker being pretty decent after its been broken in. I want to give it a fair shot.

Leo27
12-05-2009, 03:37 PM
A 12AT7 in v3? Tell me more about the "feel" compared to the 12AX7, CitizenCain.

I have two 1974 Mullard produced Siemens ECC83s I was going to try in V1 & V2 but I was just going to pop in a balanced Sovtek 12AX7LP into V3. (Have current TungSol, EH, Penta Labs, Mesa, JJ too.) I have a Legend GB1216 that I'm eager to try too. I lean heavily towards harder rock.

drakeguitar
12-05-2009, 03:59 PM
does this amp sound good with humbuckers? can you get a good blues sound even with the humbuckers?
i played one today at a sam ash and loved it but i was playing with a strat and couldn't find a prs se custom to play. lol.

and also, how should i adjust the knobs to get a nice overdrive sound out of it. i liked what i heard but it was more heavier grit. might go get this amp. :)

CitizenCain
12-05-2009, 04:32 PM
A 12AT7 in v3? Tell me more about the "feel" compared to the 12AX7, CitizenCain.

I have two 1974 Mullard produced Siemens ECC83s I was going to try in V1 & V2 but I was just going to pop in a balanced Sovtek 12AX7LP into V3. (Have current TungSol, EH, Penta Labs, Mesa, JJ too.) I have a Legend GB1216 that I'm eager to try too. I lean heavily towards harder rock.

You'll like the GB1216. It has a really nice crunch that's great for rock.

Boy, the feel of the 12AT7, that's tough to describe. It's like the amp has a more solid foundation to it. That sounds weird. It's hard to describe, but it's like when I really dig in or crank the amp it just seems that it's more there. More solid and like it's not going to run out of breath. Maybe it's the slightly lower gain or the sound of the PI distorting, but it doesn't have the brittleness that a 12AX7 has a lot of times, like it's ready to give up the ghost early, and not the holy ghost either! :rotflmao

Words are not my friend tonight!

LPMojoGL
12-07-2009, 12:29 PM
I was pleasantly surprised by a Bugera V22 the other day. My local GC has one in stock, the floor model is all, and the tolex has a little tear in it at the bottom. They said they'd sell it for $297. I passed, but it seems to be the only V22 anywhere. Seriously thinking about picking one of these up for a grab n go amp.

LPMojoGL
12-07-2009, 01:48 PM
GAS sux. Found one online for $329. Pulled the trigger.

bemeyer
12-07-2009, 02:05 PM
GAS sux. Found one online for $329. Pulled the trigger.

Now that'a boy!:rockin

LPMojoGL
12-07-2009, 05:53 PM
Now that'a boy!:rockin

Thank you, thank you. I realized this past weekend that I no longer had a grab n go amp, just two bulky stacks. I miss having a 1x12. Went with this one seeing as how they're almost extinct this side of the ocean and everyone is raving about them. Hopefully it holds up. Fingers crossed!

Spudman
12-08-2009, 09:54 AM
Mine is in the UPS location tomorrow so I can go pick it up first thing in the morning. I'm excited. I'm hoping UPS hasn't destroyed it though.

OldToneDog
12-08-2009, 10:56 AM
Mine's out for delivery today! I had some use it or lose it vacation time to take so I took the afternoon off to be home to greet it. It's going to take some patience to wait for it to warm up from the cold a bit before fireing it up. Oh well at least I can start planning my potential tube and speaker swaps while it's warming up from riding on the fridged UPS truck most of the day.

Leo27
12-08-2009, 11:56 AM
Mine was in Jacksonville as of 1:03pm. Takes a little longer to get to South Florida. Should get it tomorrow.

salsage
12-08-2009, 01:36 PM
Mine was in Jacksonville as of 1:03pm. Takes a little longer to get to South Florida. Should get it tomorrow.


JACKSONVILLE, FL, US 12/08/200912:54 P.M.ARRIVAL SCAN

mine is minutes in front of yours:agree
You'll get yours first though, my UPS guy finds a way to deliver to me near the end of his route every time:huh

At least we wont have to chip ice off of it like Oldtonedog:rotflmao :rotflmao:rotflmao

salsage
12-08-2009, 01:42 PM
Mine's out for delivery today! I had some use it or lose it vacation time to take so I took the afternoon off to be home to greet it. It's going to take some patience to wait for it to warm up from the cold a bit before fireing it up. Oh well at least I can start planning my potential tube and speaker swaps while it's warming up from riding on the fridged UPS truck most of the day.

Congrats! your first up!:beer

Cold up in Erie Huh?
Isnt that where the O neders are from?:rotflmao

uke
12-08-2009, 02:21 PM
Got mine this morning, could be the first one up here in Canada. Tried it with my LP over lunch. I'm pleasantly surprised. Clean channel can get nice and shimmery as you turn up the gain. It's also very easy to balance the clean channel with the OD channel. You can then set the overall volume with the master, great for low volume practice. Should also hang in easily in a band setting. The master volume is excellent on this thing. A little bit bright and stiff feeling right now but I'm sure that'll get better as it breaks in. Overall first impressions are good.

OldToneDog
12-08-2009, 03:45 PM
Congrats! your first up!:beer

Cold up in Erie Huh?
Isnt that where the O neders are from?:rotflmao
Yep! You gotta be quick...I'm from Erie, PA. :D
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

First impression:

After patiently waiting for things to warm up a bit, I played the v22 enough to realize that this amp has an incredible range of tonal flexibilty and I was mainly working with the clean tones.




I'll need more time to fully get into the amp but first impressions of the clean channel were:

Surprising clean volume in pentode mode. Definitely gig volume. Triode mode provides a nice clean sound too with less clean volume and a squishier feel.
Tone controls have very wide and effective ranges.
Very solid and surprisingly deep bass response.
Nice highs but turning the presence control beyond a certain point gets rather harsh and unplesant to my aged ears.
Mid boost is well voiced and changes the character of the amp in a very usable way.
The little time I spent on the gain channel was enjoyable as well. The shared tone stack didn't seem to hinder the lead tones very much. I didn't go crazy with the gain. It was set to something that would resemble a more transparent overdrive. If you need more than that and want to boost or cut the mids...get a pedal.
I hope that the rest of us waiting for a v22 will be as happy with theirs as I am with mine. I was a little bit concerned about the amp's weight when reading the ship weight but it comes with a very nice handle and is quite easy to move around.

I'm looking forward to hearing more impressions from the rest of the group.

metallica86
12-08-2009, 08:04 PM
Hi all
I just got a question about Bugera V 55 Head, I hear a lot of good thing about V22 but I'm looking for a head to practice at home and bring to gig, what do you guys think about a good head of Bugera ? V55 or any thing else?
My band play cover stuff : Pink Floyd, Metallica, Guns N Roses, Oasis, pretty classic and metal stuff.
I'm student so dont have a $$$ to purchase a MEsa so maybe Bugera is good enough ?
thank you for all

drakeguitar
12-08-2009, 08:15 PM
Hi all
I just got a question about Bugera V 55 Head, I hear a lot of good thing about V22 but I'm looking for a head to practice at home and bring to gig, what do you guys think about a good head of Bugera ? V55 or any thing else?
My band play cover stuff : Pink Floyd, Metallica, Guns N Roses, Oasis, pretty classic and metal stuff.
I'm student so dont have a $$$ to purchase a MEsa so maybe Bugera is good enough ?
thank you for all

i've played a v55 once and it is really good for something you need a lot of grit for (metallica, gnr) so i would reccommend it.
it also cleans up nicely with the tweaked down. its a really cool head

Spudman
12-09-2009, 03:09 PM
I've been playing mine around the house today. I picked it up at UPS this morning. It actually showed up undamaged. Sweet!

All I can say is wow! It's everything I was looking for. It sounds sweeter than my Classic 30 and more versatile than my H&K Edition 20 Tube (both are now for sale).

It's a classy looking and solidly built unit. I use mine at gig volume and no rattles, farts or squeeks. Great robust tones and it actually makes my M13 sound better. So far I've only played a couple of Strats through it and they sound great. I'll be trying some humbucking guitars at my next gig on Tuesday. I think this is just what I've been looking for.

It has some of that real nice Fender sort of sparkle and the low end is as evident as my Delta 1x15. It's just not as tight in the bottom as the Delta. In conclusion - I'm pretty happy and I'll be able to make money using this.

Luke V
12-09-2009, 04:27 PM
A little bit bright and stiff feeling right now but I'm sure that'll get better as it breaks in. Overall first impressions are good.

The speaker smooths out nicely when it gets broken in. Probably about 20 hrs. or so of playing past 5 on the master did it for me.

Best bang for the buck amp ever.

grizdeluxe
12-09-2009, 04:35 PM
Glad you guys are getting your amps!

You've probably read this whole thread already but heres a basic primer as far as the controls go.


For the most Fender/Vox clean tone leave the boost out,use the normal channel input, and set the volume for desired breakup. Adjust the MV for desired overall volume. Pentode for max headroom, and Triode for more bluesy breakup.

On the gain side of things it gets a bit more complicated. :) For the best medium gain Vox/Marshall tones ala Zep or ZZ Top, go Normal input,Boost in,Gain on no more then 1 or 2, and the Volume about 7 or 8. Adjust Master to overall volume.
For more aggressive tones ala AC/DC leave the gain where its at, but dime the Volume. This really pushes the output section. Adjust Master to taste.

For Alice in Chains type of chunk scoop the mids out,adjust the gain to 4 or 5 dime the volume and do the MV to taste.


And dont forget to use your guitars volume to control overall gain and to get some great chimey tones

OldToneDog
12-09-2009, 05:53 PM
I've never been a fan of a 12AX7 PI. The AT7 provides much better current handling capability. They always feel better to me than the AX7 does.

The clean channel sound is a bit warmer than stock, which is a good thing IMO. While sounding good in stock form, I found it to be a touch stiff and glassy. It also responds super to the Boost button now. In stock trim I thought the Boost made it sound boxy, now it still sounds great but with a fuller middle.

The OD channel is tamed just to my liking. I'm not a big gain user to start with and in stock form the OD channel was way too much for me. I couldn't use it with the Gain setting past about 2-3. Now I can set the Gain to 5-6 and get a nicer sounding crunch with more definition than the stock sound.

Hey CitizenCain!

Your evaluation of the v22's tone is right on and I'm going to try your recommended tube substitutions. I agree that the amp's just a touch stiff compared to what I would consider ideal. I'd also like to lighten the drive on the gain control. I don't have a 5751 handy but I have some assorted 12AX7's that may make a difference. We'll see...if not, I'll need to pick up some lower output preamp tubes to experiment with.

existentialmelt
12-09-2009, 08:11 PM
Griz, thanks for the insight on dialing in some sweet tones. That really helped me out on the drive channel.

OldToneDog, let us know how those tubes work out. I think I'm going to take mine the other way and put some ECC83S high gain tubes in there.

Also, I want to put in an Eminence GB128 or maybe a Governer, not sure yet. The stock speaker isn't bad (nor the tubes), I just like to tinker with it and alter the sound a bit.

It's cool that people are getting there amps finally.

CitizenCain
12-09-2009, 09:04 PM
OldToneDog (hey, that could be me!), I've also tried a Tungsram 12AX7 in V2 and it sounded a lot sweeter than the stock tube. Griz is right on too, about how the Gain channel works. You'd think you'd want to play with the Gain knob, but keeping it set lower and raising the channel volume really brings out the classic rock crunch. Especially when you get the channel volume in the 7+ range.

Here's something for the guys who are still waiting...tone city :D

http://www.visi.com/~sstolle/pics/junkyard2.jpg

uke
12-09-2009, 09:11 PM
I ended up having a microphonic preamp tube in V1 (crackled on the OD channel when cranked), replaced it with a Tungsol 12ax7, everything is good now, most of the stiffness is gone too. Getting at those tubes though is just way too inconvenient. Had to take the speaker out to get at the back screws of that cage that goes over the tubes. Left the cage off for now, really don't need it, the tubes are in there real secure.

CitizenCain
12-09-2009, 09:13 PM
Same here, uke. I left the tube cage off and the plastic cover over the bias pot. Seem like needless parts, probably required by some regulatory agency.

uke
12-10-2009, 06:03 AM
I'd suggest everyone remove that cage and leave it off if they want easy acess to the tubes. It's not needed at all. Haven't checked the bias yet. Is 22 ma the number we're looking for?

grizdeluxe
12-10-2009, 07:01 AM
22ma is the recommended target point, but sometimes I bias slightly lower depending on the tubes. If they are early breakup EL 84's I adjust to around 18-20. My JJ's are a bit harder and they can be biased to around 25 with seemingly no issues.

Agree on the tube cage. It came off the first day, as well as the cover over the bias test point and knob.

Cain, thanks for the insight on the PI 12at7. I ordered one and received it yesterday. In conjunction with the 5751 in V1 it sure has calmed down the gain channel. Much more organic sounding crunch.

I had my 2x12 cab loaned out to our rhythm player and got it back the other day. It has the stock V-22 and an old V-30 in a closed back cab. Both nicely broken in. Man does that combo. sound good. The tight low end I get out of that is so good. I've had this amp since mid July and it still does it for me. :aok

salsage
12-10-2009, 08:43 AM
Received mine yesterday.

Its exactly what I remember demoing. Nice cleans and crunch. Its good right out of the box. Just a little "stiff" sounding that I expect to go away w the speaker broken in.
Gonna put some hours on it before I start any tube or speaker swaps.

For the record my manufacture date is Sept 09.

Dont know if you all know this already but the amp will tilt back. The rear feet are positioned so that you can get a fairly solid tilt going. I can only assume they designed it that way. I like it!

OldToneDog
12-10-2009, 10:51 AM
Received mine yesterday.

Its exactly what I remember demoing. Nice cleans and crunch. Its good right out of the box. Just a little "stiff" sounding that I expect to go away w the speaker broken in.
Gonna put some hours on it before I start any tube or speaker swaps.

For the record my manufacture date is Sept 09.

Dont know if you all know this already but the amp will tilt back. The rear feet are positioned so that you can get a fairly solid tilt going. I can only assume they designed it that way. I like it!


Mine's from that batch too...it's probably a good idea to break it in stock for a while. Swapping tubes or speakers requires a pretty extensive dismantling of the amp. Not difficult but not as easy as just reaching under the chassis & swapping a tube or two.

I'll need to try that tilt trick once I get my chassis back in my amp. ;) Since I had the amp apart, I installed a beam blocker and will be experimenting with some tube swaps later today (removed the protective tube cage too).

uke
12-10-2009, 12:09 PM
Wondering how you bias this thing, I can't seem to find any setting on my multi-meter that'll give me any sort of meaningful reading. I get something on the 200 mv scale but that reading jumps around all over the place. Stripped the wires off of an rca jack, still can't get a good reading. Don't know what I'm doing wrong.

CitizenCain
12-10-2009, 12:45 PM
I made a tool for setting the bias, it's just an RCA plug connected to a terminal board that gives me something solid to clip my meter leads to. The only scale I get any info on is mV. I'm assuming, without benefit of a schematic or looking deep into the chassis, that they're using a 1 ohm resistor between the tube cathodes and ground and that's what the bias jack measures. In this scenario 1mV = 1mA

Leo27
12-10-2009, 01:14 PM
Mine has an October '09 date code. It's running fine so I'll mess with the preamp tubes. Since the speaker has to come out to get the cage off, I'll pop in the Legend.

Edit: Awww, the speaker terminals are soldered...some other day for the change...

uke
12-10-2009, 02:05 PM
This bias thing is throwing me for a loop. Tried the rca jack again and taped my meter probes to the wires. Inserted the RCA jack, get no readings on the 200 mv scale, but on the 200 V scale I got a reading of 5.8V, turned the bias knob clockwise till I got a reading of 22V. This results in super low volume and tons of grit, turn it back down to 5.8V and all is fine. No idea why this is happenning. How are you guys getting your readings on the mv scale, I can't and don't know why.

grizdeluxe
12-10-2009, 03:35 PM
I turn my meter to DCmA and its on the 50 setting. You have to mess with the probes if you dont have the RCA plug, but its not that hard to get a reading.


Leo thats interseting your speaker wires are soldered. Mine are standard crimp connectors that slip off. Mines an early model though.

salsage
12-10-2009, 04:30 PM
Leo thats interseting your speaker wires are soldered. Mine are standard crimp connectors that slip off. Mines an early model though.

I just took a quick peek after reading your post.

Mine has standard crimp connectors soldered on also.

Spudman
12-10-2009, 04:42 PM
Hey! It does work to tip it back. It will stay in place by itself. They cleverly put the rear rubber feet closer toward the front of the amp and that allows it to rest on the bottom edge of the cabinet. Clever! Thanks for that tip salsage. That makes it perfect for where I like to position it.

existentialmelt
12-10-2009, 04:45 PM
I just took a quick peek after reading your post.

Mine has standard crimp connectors soldered on also.

Same here.

Also, is the date read with the year followed by the month? Mine reads 09 08. :dunno

grizdeluxe
12-10-2009, 05:30 PM
My date code is 09 05

I tried a UniVibe through mine today. Pretty killer swirly tones. Easy to dial in Trower Bridge of Sighs or Too Rolling Stoned with the gain on 2, volume on 7, and the master at 6.

salsage
12-10-2009, 06:03 PM
Hey! It does work to tip it back. It will stay in place by itself. They cleverly put the rear rubber feet closer toward the front of the amp and that allows it to rest on the bottom edge of the cabinet. Clever! Thanks for that tip salsage. That makes it perfect for where I like to position it.

Yeah its a pretty clever idea!


Also, is the date read with the year followed by the month? Mine reads 09 08. :dunno

Your 09 08 post made me look at mine again. It has to be year then month. Mine very clearly says 09 10 I didnt pay much attention when I read it before.

CitizenCain
12-10-2009, 06:09 PM
Standard crimped speaker connections here, too.

uke, make sure you're set to read DC and not AC.

Odd about the bias adjustments. I can't get any meaningful readings on anything but the DC mV scale.

I'm thinking of pulling the chassis to do an old-fashioned bias measurement just to see what's going on here.

uke
12-10-2009, 07:08 PM
CitizenCain, I dug up another old meter I had laying around, just to compare, still can't get any mv readings. From what I can tell turning the adjustment clockwise lowers the bias, counterclockwise increases it, is that right?

OldToneDog
12-10-2009, 07:22 PM
I have a bias question too. I have an auto-ranging digital multimeter and when I first tested the bias point it read 15.03 with the meter set to DC v.

My meter didn't tell me what scale it was using. I tried to adjust the bias control until my meter read 22 but by that time my EL-84's started to glow so I immediately backed the bias back to 15 where the amp sounded fine and wasn't melting down.

Any ideas? Suggestions?

Thanks!

grizdeluxe
12-10-2009, 08:05 PM
For starters my amp shows + should be on the inside and neg on the outer sleeve. This is backwards to how my tester gets a reading. I use the - on the inside and + on the outside sleeve. Turning clockwise increases the mV while counter clockwise decreases. At or around 22mV my tubes have a slight glow which has been normal in my experience with EL 84 amps.

CitizenCain
12-10-2009, 08:29 PM
griz, exactly how mine works. If I hook the meter up according to how the little chart on the amp shows, I get a negative voltage reading. I can't recall now which way I turned it, but I just set it so it's about 22 mV. Tubes look normal to me, definitely not red-plating at all. Mine measured around 16 from the factory.

uke
12-10-2009, 08:39 PM
Mine is definitely out of wack, as I turn the bias adjustment clockwise it acts like a volume control, it actully turns the volume of the amp down to nothing. Weird.

CitizenCain
12-10-2009, 08:42 PM
:( That does sound strange.

grizdeluxe
12-10-2009, 08:48 PM
Mine is definitely out of wack, as I turn the bias adjustment clockwise it acts like a volume control, it actully turns the volume of the amp down to nothing. Weird.

Do you have another set of EL 84's? I would pull the stockers and try another set. Be careful with the bias, you can redplate and ruin the tubes by turning up too much.. My amp is generally only around a quarter turn clockwise to get to 22mV.

OldToneDog
12-10-2009, 09:01 PM
griz, exactly how mine works. If I hook the meter up according to how the little chart on the amp shows, I get a negative voltage reading. I can't recall now which way I turned it, but I just set it so it's about 22 mV. Tubes look normal to me, definitely not red-plating at all. Mine measured around 16 from the factory.

Thanks Griz and Cain,

Sounds like my reading of 15 was a valid value and that I should be able to adjust up to 22mV...but since my tunes red-plated at that point, I'll have to assume that my set must need to run with a lower bias point. Right?

btw: My bias test point polarity is also reversed.

uke
12-10-2009, 09:11 PM
Just tried some JJs, same thing, turn the bias clockwise and the volume of the amp goes down. I've contacted Behringer, it'll be interesting to see what they say. Not having much luck with any of the Chinese stuff I've bought lately, what a waste of time and effort returning stuff.

OldToneDog
12-10-2009, 09:31 PM
Just tried some JJs, same thing, turn the bias clockwise and the volume of the amp goes down. I've contacted Behringer, it'll be interesting to see what they say. Not having much luck with any of the Chinese stuff I've bought lately, what a waste of time and effort returning stuff.


I'd be curious to hear what Bugera has to say...but I have to admit that the amp sounds really nice for the cash. I'd be interested to hear one of these with a paper wound output transformer. I think that the stiffness some have mentioned is related to the output transformer. I've swapped some various preamp and power tubes in my amp and none of the tubes that I had in my spare tube box was head and shoulders above the stock tubes. I also tried a 12AT7 in v3 for the phase inverter and for my taste, the Bugera 12AX7B sounded fat and round compared to the tighter sounding 12AT7. So my stock tube complement was pretty decent. Perhaps I got lucky. I did replace v1 with an older large plate US made 12AX7. This tube in V1 added more definition than the stock tube but the stock tube wasn't that far behind.

Now if I can get that stock speaker to break in I should be in good shape. I connected the amp to a sweet old 100W EVM12L that I bought new in '78. Man did that smooth out the highs. This amp has a lot of potential.

OldToneDog
12-10-2009, 09:50 PM
From the Bugera website: (Explaination for negative bias voltage readings?)

With adjustable fixed-bias amplifiers, as the name implies, there is a small potentiometer that allows adjustment of the bias to its optimal level. This is very convenient since it allows the use of many different valves with different biasing requirements to be used in your amplifier. For example, 6L6GC valves come in a spectrum of bias ranges. You can buy valves that need -30 volts, -35 volts or -40 volts to achieve the same plate current. Sonically, these valves will sound different. Low bias valves will put out less power and will sound cleaner. High bias valves will put out more power and sound more distorted. With a BUGERA amp, the choice is always yours

Read more at: http://www.bugera-amps.com/EN/Backstage/ValvesandBiasing.aspx

RobH
12-11-2009, 02:56 AM
I made mention of this in this thread weeks ago, but here goes again :)

If you measure the voltage at the rca jack you are measuring the negative DC screen voltage, not the plate current.

If you set your bias via the jack the voltage should be about -16.5 VDC, but I would not recommend you set the bias that way.

The only way to accurately adjust the bias is to measure the plate voltage & current.
To set the bias you are going to need to measure the current and the safest way is to use an adapter with a shunt (aka bias probe)

Due to the design of the amp, a short probe will not work, you will need something like this:
http://tinyurl.com/yc6cxjg

even with this probe you will have to remove the rubber grommet protecting the power tubes to get the probe in the socket.

CitizenCain
12-11-2009, 03:09 AM
I must have missed your previous post, Rob. That goes a long way towards explaining a few things. I was trying to reconcile the previous information that mentioned 22 mA current as the bias setting. The only thing I could think was that they were measuring voltage drop across a 1 ohm cathode resistor. 22 mA seemed like an awfully low reading for 2 EL84s.

However, if you're measuring the actual bias voltage, everything makes sense, the negative reading, the number is a better ballpark figure, etc. I have an auto-ranging meter also and never really paid attention to the scale it was using.

I agree the best way to get an accurate bias setting is to measure the plate current and voltage and figure the idle dissipation. Unfortunately, my Bias-Rite is an octal model :(

rockon1
12-11-2009, 03:25 AM
I made mention of this in this thread weeks ago, but here goes again :)

If you measure the voltage at the rca jack you are measuring the negative DC screen voltage, not the plate current.

If you set your bias via the jack the voltage should be about -16.5 VDC, but I would not recommend you set the bias that way.

The only way to accurately adjust the bias is to measure the plate voltage & current.
To set the bias you are going to need to measure the current and the safest way is to use an adapter with a shunt (aka bias probe)

Due to the design of the amp, a short probe will not work, you will need something like this:
http://tinyurl.com/yc6cxjg

even with this probe you will have to remove the rubber grommet protecting the power tubes to get the probe in the socket.

+1 This is important. Negative screen voltage is not the same as ma current draw! Theres no way of measuring the actualk bias this way.

Just tried some JJs, same thing, turn the bias clockwise and the volume of the amp goes down. I've contacted Behringer, it'll be interesting to see what they say. Not having much luck with any of the Chinese stuff I've bought lately, what a waste of time and effort returning stuff.

The higher the negative voltage the lower the bias is. So if turning the pot raises the negative screen voltage then the volume will get lower as the bias gets colder. Bob

OldToneDog
12-11-2009, 04:15 AM
Thanks for all of the info.

Even though the bias RCA jack test point is not the ideal way to set the bias, it's nice to know that -16.5 VDC is the desired target point.

uke
12-11-2009, 06:04 AM
Rockon1 and OldToneDog, so basically I'm not going crazy. I just couldn't understand why I wasn't getting any reading on the mv scale of my meter while the Vdc scale was showing a reading of about -5 Vdc. As I turned the bias control clockwise I was able to get the reading up to -22 Vdc but had hardly any volume at this level and the sound was distorted. Wondering what the other guys have been doing when they were getting mv readings since in my case I had very low volume at -22 Vdc? So you're saying you need a value of -16.5 Vdc, that's way different from the reading of -5 Vdc that my amp was set at from the factory. To my ears the JJs sounded richer and clearer than the stock tubes but not by much.

grizdeluxe
12-11-2009, 06:06 AM
I guess I'm confused. :confused: I posted this before but the last time I had my amp biased with a bias-rite by a tech. I checked it at home and the RCA jack read right around 22mA. Isnt this a fairly accurate way to set bias?

RobH
12-11-2009, 06:12 AM
Thanks for all of the info.

Even though the bias RCA jack test point is not the ideal way to set the bias, it's nice to know that -16.5 VDC is the desired target point.

The problem is that that number is ok for the stock tubes that came with the amp, but the value could be wrong for a different brand of tube.

I have a pair of Mullards in mine and the Screen voltage is a bit higher, about -17VDC. that could be too high for other brands.

OldToneDog
12-11-2009, 07:12 AM
I can see where the tube socket bias tool would be the way to go. Thanks.

Leo27
12-11-2009, 07:22 AM
I'm not getting much bass out of the amp with the bass up full. Can't get it to sound fat and it won't "chug".
I changed the chinese pre-amp tubes, NOS Mullard-Siemens in V1 & V2, Sovtek 12AX7LPS in V3. I've not had the bias checked. Thought it may be the tight new speaker but I plugged it into my G-Flex cabinet which is bass heavy and I was disappointed. I then used a Pro Tone Boom Box pedal, which is a tonemender circuit and I was able fatten up the tone very nicely but I was expecting to not have to do this with the V22. Could it be that the bias is off affecting tone? Maybe new EL84s would do the trick (Genelax Gold Lion)? BTW, using an Ibanez RGA121 with DiMarzio Breeds.

salsage
12-11-2009, 07:26 AM
My amp sounds pretty good.
I think Im going to stay away from power tube swap and biasing until this comes into focus a little more.

CitizenCain
12-11-2009, 07:49 AM
uke, I have to admit I don't know for sure which scale my meter was reading on since I have and auto-nging meter myself. I have a few errands to run this morning but when I'm done, I'll setup my bias rig and take a picture of the meter reading :D I know it's set for -22 something!

grizdeluxe
12-11-2009, 07:53 AM
I'm not getting much bass out of the amp with the bass up full. Can't get it to sound fat and it won't "chug".
I changed the chinese pre-amp tubes, NOS Mullard-Siemens in V1 & V2, Sovtek 12AX7LPS in V3. I've not had the bias checked. Thought it may be the tight new speaker but I plugged it into my G-Flex cabinet which is bass heavy and I was disappointed. I then used a Pro Tone Boom Box pedal, which is a tonemender circuit and I was able fatten up the tone very nicely but I was expecting to not have to do this with the V22. Could it be that the bias is off? Maybe new EL84s would do the trick? BTW, using an Ibanez RGA121 with DiMarzio Breeds.


Mine is anything but thin. The stock speaker will never be a bass monster. My Hellatone in this amp has plenty of bass for chunky Alice in Chains type of stuff. I do know switching to JJ EL 84's gave me more articulate bass and overall headroom. Into my closed back 2x12 I have to set the bass around 2-3 or it gets overbearing.

Good luck.

OldToneDog
12-11-2009, 08:02 AM
That definetly sounds like an issue. I like a full sound with plenty of low end and I don't have my bass control past 4 without having the deep full bass start overwhelming the tone.

Could the bias be set too cold?

Leo27
12-11-2009, 08:42 AM
"Mine is anything but thin. The stock speaker will never be a bass monster. My Hellatone in this amp has plenty of bass for chunky Alice in Chains type of stuff. I do know switching to JJ EL 84's gave me more articulate bass and overall headroom. Into my closed back 2x12 I have to set the bass around 2-3 or it gets overbearing."

"That definetly sounds like an issue. I like a full sound with plenty of low end and I don't have my bass control past 4 without having the deep full bass start overwhelming the tone."

:(...:facepalm

salsage
12-11-2009, 09:47 AM
Wow Leo:( How did it sound before any swaps. :huh
Did you lose bass somewhere or was it lacking bass out of the box?

Mine sounds fine. Im Still trying to put some hours on it. It has not left my house yet so I have not really cranked it. Running my bass around 6-7 and its very strong.

Leo27
12-11-2009, 10:13 AM
When I first plugged it in, I was trying it out in the middle of the room so I wasn't concerned and figured it would beef up a few inches from a wall. It did somewhat but not nearly enough. After the tube swap (tried TungSols too) there was not much difference across the board. This is weird. I can always hear a difference with the TungSols. The funny thing is that the distortion is weird too. It's been really fizzy right from the start.

Well, I just ordered JJ EL84s and a Jan-Phillips 12AT7 for the PI. I sure hope it's a power tube/biasing issue. I'll take it in to Alpha Kinetix in Pompano. Gary's a great amp tech.

existentialmelt
12-11-2009, 10:28 AM
When I first plugged it in, I was trying it out in the middle of the room so I wasn't concerned and figured it would beef up a few inches from a wall. It did somewhat but not nearly enough. After the tube swap (tried TungSols too) there was not much difference across the board. This is weird. I can always hear a difference with the TungSols. The funny thing is that the distortion is weird too. It's been really fizzy right from the start.

Well, I just ordered JJ EL84s and a Jan-Phillips 12AT7 for the PI. I sure hope it's a power tube/biasing issue. I'll take it in to Alpha Kinetix in Pompano. Gary's a great amp tech.

Just curious, what are the amp's settings when you are getting the fiz from the overdrive channel?

Leo27
12-11-2009, 10:38 AM
Gain 6 & up, volume 5, bass full, mid 4, treble 5, presence 2. Boost out. Tone has no balls

OldToneDog
12-11-2009, 10:39 AM
When I first plugged it in, I was trying it out in the middle of the room so I wasn't concerned and figured it would beef up a few inches from a wall. It did somewhat but not nearly enough. After the tube swap (tried TungSols too) there was not much difference across the board. This is weird. I can always hear a difference with the TungSols. The funny thing is that the distortion is weird too. It's been really fizzy right from the start.

Well, I just ordered JJ EL84s and a Jan-Phillips 12AT7 for the PI. I sure hope it's a power tube/biasing issue. I'll take it in to Alpha Kinetix in Pompano. Gary's a great amp tech.

Really sorry to hear that...after such a long wait too.

OldToneDog
12-11-2009, 10:44 AM
Gain 5 & up, volume 5, bass full, mid 4, treble 5, presence 2.

All of your other settings are set at sweet spots but there's no way that you should need the bass dimed with the apparent normal tonal response of these amps. Almost sounds like a bad cap or something on the bass tone control.

Luke V
12-11-2009, 10:50 AM
Gain 6 & up, volume 5, bass full, mid 4, treble 5, presence 2. Boost out. Tone has no balls

Is the amp on the floor? I noticed lack of low end on mine when I put it on a stand.

existentialmelt
12-11-2009, 10:53 AM
Gain 6 & up, volume 5, bass full, mid 4, treble 5, presence 2. Boost out. Tone has no balls

I did what Griz suggested on page 39 of this thread (diming the volume) and it worked wonders. Now it just roars! :rockin I'm using a Standard Strat with 57/62 pickups, FWIW. The bass is set to 7.5 and it rattles the windows, in a good way.

Thanks Griz!!:bow

Leo27
12-11-2009, 11:08 AM
Amps on the floor. The bass control does very little through out it's range and diming the volume just makes it louder for me. I voided the warranty so can't send it back. There goes the $70 discount and probably more out the window into the pocket of the amp tech. Should not have f*cked with it, I knew it wasn't right. Mojo needed.

uke
12-11-2009, 11:17 AM
Do check your bias setting if it's at -22 Vdc that could be way too low for your tubes, it was on mine and results in a thin sound (cold bias). Mine came at -5 Vdc and sounded awsome, realized after a lot of discussion on this forum I was frying the tubes. 15- 16 Vdc sounds OK. Samething bass not much over 4 on the bright channel is plenty.

existentialmelt
12-11-2009, 11:33 AM
Amps on the floor. The bass control does very little through out it's range and diming the volume just makes it louder for me. I voided the warranty so can't send it back. There goes the $70 discount and probably more out the window into the pocket of the amp tech. Should not have f*cked with it, I knew it wasn't right. Mojo needed.

I was looking back to see what you did and unless I missed something, all you changed were the tubes? If so, can you put the stock tubes back in and see what happens? If all else fails, if you can make it look like you didn't open it up or anything, you might be able to get a new one. Musician's Friend ( I think that's where you got it?) is pretty good about that. Especially since you just got it.

Leo27
12-11-2009, 11:36 AM
I'll be taking it in when I get the JJ's. I'm not savy with electronics.

Leo27
12-11-2009, 11:47 AM
Changing the tubes necessitated taking out the speaker to remove the tube cage. I called Music123 and they said that ANYTHING done to the amp would void the warranty. I told them I had changed a tube because it was microphonic and there were other issues.

existentialmelt
12-11-2009, 11:54 AM
Changing the tubes necessitated taking out the speaker to remove the tube cage. I called Music123 and they said that ANYTHING done to the amp would void the warranty. I told them I had changed a tube because it was microphonic and there were other issues.


Here's where it doesn't pay to be honest. Unless it is completely obvious that you opened it up, I'd claim, if I were you, that I NEVER did such a thing.:Devil

grizdeluxe
12-11-2009, 12:05 PM
Gain 6 & up, volume 5, bass full, mid 4, treble 5, presence 2. Boost out. Tone has no balls

I know you probably tried everything but I keep my gain around 2 Volume 7 or higher and adjust the MV to the overall sound level. For a ballsy tone, the MV needs to be 6 or higher in conjunction with the volume being at least 6 or higher on the overdrive side. I prefer the boost in in that mode. I also eliminated a ton of buzziness using a Jan Phillips 5751 in V1

Just trying to be helpful. If that doesnt work for you I'll keep my trap shut. :)

salsage
12-11-2009, 01:25 PM
Amps on the floor. The bass control does very little through out it's range and diming the volume just makes it louder for me. I voided the warranty so can't send it back. There goes the $70 discount and probably more out the window into the pocket of the amp tech. Should not have f*cked with it, I knew it wasn't right. Mojo needed.


MOJO sent
It will be ok its an amp.
Try Griz's settings

popthree
12-11-2009, 01:39 PM
Changing the tubes necessitated taking out the speaker to remove the tube cage. I called Music123 and they said that ANYTHING done to the amp would void the warranty. I told them I had changed a tube because it was microphonic and there were other issues.
whose warranty is it ? music123's or behringers ?

i believe that would be behringer, right ?

what you did is not a void the warranty action. you did not alter the amps design in any way. put the stock tubes back in, put that cage back on..tell them to give you an RMA or you are going to dispute the charge with your credit card company.

CitizenCain
12-11-2009, 02:37 PM
OK, I checked mine this afternoon. My meter was settling on the V display, not mV. Mine came from teh factory set around -16. Setting it to -22 is too cold. I put the stock EL84s back in and set it back to the factory setting (close as I could, ended up around -15.5) and the sound warmed up a bit. Doesn't seem quite as stiff as before.

Here's the bias reading before I set it all back.

http://www.visi.com/~sstolle/pics/v22_bias1.jpg

uke
12-11-2009, 02:53 PM
Thanks CitizenCain, I'm glad all this confusion has been sorted out. My amp did sound awesome at the -5 Vdc setting , too hot for the tubes though. I've got mine at about -15.9 now, the amp is a little tighter and the tubes aren't glowing as much. I've used a bias probe on my Fenders for years so I just ordered an el84 bias probe, that's really the only way to get any meaningful bias results.

CitizenCain
12-11-2009, 03:05 PM
I agree. I have a Weber Bias-Rite but it only has two octal heads so no good for the EL84s. I pulled my old good tubes before I put the bias back up, just in case :D It actually sounds pretty decent with the stockers. Now it makes me want to play around with the preamp tubes again. It's a sickness I tells ya!

Leo27
12-11-2009, 03:14 PM
When I called Music123 I didn't exchange any personal information. I was very careful not to scratch anything when I got into the amp and was very gentle with the screw driver. Maybe I will put it all back the way it was and ship it back. You know, the pins on those Bugera tubes were very corroded. Must have been sitting around awhile before they were installed.

Did you guys ever try diming the Master Volume with gain up and inching the gain channel volume up from zero? Mine amp sounds like a transistor radio.

CitizenCain
12-11-2009, 03:47 PM
Corroded pins is definitely not a good sign. Mine were all clean as a whistle.

existentialmelt
12-11-2009, 04:21 PM
Did you guys ever try diming the Master Volume with gain up and inching the gain channel volume up from zero? Mine amp sounds like a transistor radio.
Does that sound good on any amp? :huh

Good luck with the return!

uke
12-11-2009, 06:43 PM
Here's the reply Behringer sent regarding setting the bias;

Hi Roman and thank you for writing to BEHRINGER technical support!

Try to use the "autorange" function of the multimeter. The gate voltage is in volts - not mV. Better still, use a dedicated bias meter with a set of extension sockets.... The target current is 22mV for the EL84s.



We hope that we have been able to help you with this information.

Best regards,
Chris P.
Your BEHRINGER Customer Support Team



***note that they also suggest to use a bias probe to set the bias

CitizenCain
12-11-2009, 07:29 PM
What is the target for the "gate volts", did they say?

RobH
12-11-2009, 08:01 PM
That is interesting.
I used my bias probes to measure both cathode/ plate voltage & current on the stock tubes.
Before I made any changes I checked the negative voltage at the RCA jack
it read -16.5Vdc. I don't recall the actual measured current & voltage, but it was reasonably close to the ideal 70% (8.4watts).
What I did notice is that the stock tubes were not matched very well, there was a difference in current of about 4mA (not that much of a difference really) so I swapped the stock tubes for a pair of matched JJ el84s and they ran very close to the stock tubes. I couldn't spot an audible difference tho. Out of curiosity I stuck a pair of Mullards into the amp and there was a significant difference. when the cathode current was adjusted to match the others (22mA) the negative voltage had changed to -17.1VDC . 0.6Vdc difference isn't much, but it is enough to confirm that Bugera's bias measurement circuit is not reliable.
I believe that is confirmed in your email from Behringer Customer Support.

popthree
12-11-2009, 11:55 PM
Does that sound good on any amp? :huh

Good luck with the return!
turning the master up full and then nudging the gain just a bit ? yeah i think it does.. if you like clean..which i do.

existentialmelt
12-12-2009, 10:38 AM
turning the master up full and then nudging the gain just a bit ? yeah i think it does.. if you like clean..which i do.

Ok, I should clarify that with this amp, you can get grit by pushing the gain up. Turning up the gain increases the signal going into the preamp, producing distortion. On the clean channel of this amp, we aren't dealing with the gain control. If I want clean, I use the clean channel.

LPMojoGL
12-12-2009, 02:30 PM
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude. I received my V22 today and have been playing for the past 2.5 hrs. It sounds great! It also likes to flicker between channels like a light bulb that is about to go out. Booooooo.

RobH
12-12-2009, 09:21 PM
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude. I received my V22 today and have been playing for the past 2.5 hrs. It sounds great! It also likes to flicker between channels like a light bulb that is about to go out. Booooooo.


Have you got the foot switch plugged in? If so unplug it and see if the problem goes away.

The OP of this thread had some dramas with his foot switch.

grizdeluxe
12-12-2009, 09:54 PM
I modded my footswitch from being hardwired at the pedal to a jack to use standard TRS cable. It never did the switching problem again. That said, I never need footswitchable reverb so I use my Blackstar HT-5 single button footswitch. It just controls clean and gain and I havent had any issues with it either.

salsage
12-13-2009, 06:25 AM
My V22 has been flawless. Good 4 me.
Regards to my bud Leo:(
After a dozen or so hours at medium volume, I believe the speaker is loosening up a litttle. The clean tones are nice, still just a little boxy but I'm bonding with the amp and finding its sweet spots. I get some real nice od going, very nice.
Still stock I may try swapping a tube in v1. Someone said the speakers gotta come out to get to the tubes. UGH.

Leo27
12-13-2009, 06:36 AM
Ah, thanks Salsage. Once bitten twice shy. Mine is boxed and ready to ship out. I'll not be getting another one.

And yes, you do have to pull the speaker to remove the cage because you don't have screwdiver access otherwise. Re-installing the cage is worse because you can't see the two screw holes that are up against the baffle board. Leave the cage off.

:wave

LPMojoGL
12-13-2009, 07:07 AM
Have you got the foot switch plugged in? If so unplug it and see if the problem goes away.

The OP of this thread had some dramas with his foot switch.

Yes, with the footswitch plugged in. It's not a constant problem. It happened to me 3 times during the last part of the 2.5 hrs. I was using the gain channel, the channel would go to clean, and the lights on the footswitch would flicker, then everything would go back to normal. I'll play it until it does it again, then remove the footswitch and see what happens. It will be nice if it is only the footswitch. It would be nicer if it worked like it's supposed to.

jhall
12-13-2009, 07:26 AM
I got my V-22 yesterday. I am in love with it.
I have a DRRI and a 1972 Dual Showman Reverb set up sa a Twin for all intents and pourposes. The Bugera is a wonderful amp. Don't get me wrong I love my DRRI and Twin (among my many other amps and modellers and such). But this amp is seriously great sounding right out of the box.
All I did was take the tube cage right out and that bias test point cover.
I did hear a little bit of rattle that to me sounds like a microphonic tube but I can't pin it down. I tried the 'ol tap with a pencil trick but all the tubes seem to be robust to that test. I don't know if it's a mechanical vibration or not. I'm not too worried about it though as I'm sure I'll track it down soon enough. It seems most of my amps that are combos develop or come new with this condition so I'm not putting this on Bugera.
DId I say the amp sounds EXCELLENT?? yet... Well it does.

jhall
12-13-2009, 07:33 AM
Changing the tubes necessitated taking out the speaker to remove the tube cage. I called Music123 and they said that ANYTHING done to the amp would void the warranty. I told them I had changed a tube because it was microphonic and there were other issues.

Heck with that!! I just removed the Chasis it's dead easy to do. Then it's all right in front of you.
One caveat with this amp is the board mounted tube sockets. With upside down mounted tubes you are just asking for trouble as the heat will rise into the board.
But I may be inventing a monster that isn't actually under the bed.
I have not yet heard of any issues with the Bugera amps related to this.
I think I'll just enjoy it and not sweat stuff as the amp came out of the box sounding terriffic.

LPMojoGL
12-13-2009, 07:52 AM
I got my V-22 yesterday. I am in love with it.
I have a DRRI and a 1972 Dual Showman Reverb set up sa a Twin for all intents and pourposes. The Bugera is a wonderful amp.
DId I say the amp sounds EXCELLENT?? yet... Well it does.

I'm interested in a comparison between the V22 and DRRI. What are your thoughts? I also have a 67 blackface Dual Showman with the 2x15 cab. Great amps!

salsage
12-13-2009, 08:07 AM
Ah, thanks Salsage. Once bitten twice shy. Mine is boxed and ready to ship out. I'll not be getting another one.

And yes, you do have to pull the speaker to remove the cage because you don't have screwdiver access otherwise. Re-installing the cage is worse because you can't see the two screw holes that are up against the baffle board. Leave the cage off.
:wave

Wow after all the waiting we went through. I understand though if you feel "jinxed".
My v22 is all I expected. Looking forward to a band setting.
It seems pretty solid but I did get the 3 year warranty with it just in case.
Regards'

CitizenCain
12-13-2009, 08:29 AM
Been pounding on mine since Labor Day, so far so good.

I can understand why someone would be nervous though, especially getting a bad one out of the box. Given the brand's history and pedigree it doesn't take much to turn someone off.

uke
12-13-2009, 10:38 AM
I've A/B'd mine against my 78 Deluxe reverb and 78 Vibrolux. Screwed around with the settings to try to match the Fenders. This thing gets pretty close, it's a little stiffer sounding with less bloom and more metallic highs, volume wise it's louder than my Deluxe and on par with the 35 watt Vibrolux. I think the OD channel when EQ'd to get rid of the fizzies has better clarity, presence and punch than my OD pedals into the Fenders. Ain't gonna replace my Fenders but this Bugera is so versatile with so many great tones in there that it still impresses me every time I play it.

salsage
12-13-2009, 10:47 AM
Heck with that!! I just removed the Chasis it's dead easy to do. Then it's all right in front of you.
One caveat with this amp is the board mounted tube sockets. With upside down mounted tubes you are just asking for trouble as the heat will rise into the board.
But I may be inventing a monster that isn't actually under the bed.
I have not yet heard of any issues with the Bugera amps related to this.
I think I'll just enjoy it and not sweat stuff as the amp came out of the box sounding terriffic.


Thanks for that tip. I like the EASY button.

I have another amp with board mounted tube sockets not an issue in 8 years with average usage but the tubes are mounted sideways, they're el34's and theres a vent at the top of the combo. el84's do get a little hotter. Maybe we should be looking into a little cooling fan as a mod?
Agreed this is all speculation though.
You're right the amp is terrific, Im calling it the "value amp" of the year.

grizdeluxe
12-13-2009, 03:41 PM
So I've come to the conclusion that my stock MIM Tele sounds best through the V-22. My LP copy and American Std strat sound just OK. I would like to try an SG through it and might be getting one soon, but the Tele just does it for me.


What are you guys playing through yours?

jhall
12-13-2009, 04:15 PM
So I've come to the conclusion that my stock MIM Tele sounds best through the V-22. My LP copy and American Std strat sound just OK. I would like to try an SG through it and might be getting one soon, but the Tele just does it for me.


What are you guys playing through yours?
It just so Happens that I have an SG. I haven't tried it into the V-22 yet but I will tommorrow and report back or put down a clip so you can hear it in action.

salsage
12-13-2009, 04:20 PM
So I've come to the conclusion that my stock MIM Tele sounds best through the V-22. My LP copy and American Std strat sound just OK. I would like to try an SG through it and might be getting one soon, but the Tele just does it for me.


What are you guys playing through yours?


I have only played my Brian Moore i1 through it so far. SD JB bridge/JB SC middle/JB Jazz neck. Sounds great.
I'll try some different guitars this week and report.

CitizenCain
12-13-2009, 05:39 PM
My Jimmie Vaughan Strat rules through this amp. The cleans are so big and fat they can't even get out the door!

OldToneDog
12-13-2009, 05:39 PM
So I've come to the conclusion that my stock MIM Tele sounds best through the V-22. My LP copy and American Std strat sound just OK. I would like to try an SG through it and might be getting one soon, but the Tele just does it for me.


What are you guys playing through yours?

I've played my Les Paul, a mini-humbucker equipped guitar, and my Strat. All seem to sound pretty nice.

Custom Heatley w/3 '72 Gibson mini-humbuckers:
http://cid-ed2289eeb0e07688.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Custom%20Heatley%20Tradition/VTonysTrad.jpg?authkey=v8U8Dm04dfw%24

Fernandes Les Paul

http://cid-ed2289eeb0e07688.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Fernandes%20Refret/FernandesSM.JPG?authkey=VrKKe97q*ZE%24

Seen one Strat you've seen them all...ok...I don't have any pics handy. Mine has two RWRP SSL-1's and a DiMarzio virtual vintage PAF in the bridge.

I am going to try a Cannibus Rex in the v22 to see if the CR will tame some of the ultra-bright tones this amp is capable of. If the CR does what I'm reading it will, it may be a good choice to help shape the response of the amp. The original speaker isn't bad though by any means. I'm curious to see just how much the stock speaker is enhancing the highs. I plugged the v22 into an old 100w EVM-12L in a Theile cabinet and the sound smoothed out very well. That's really what got me thinking about the CR. Loading an EVM in there would be more than I'd care to lug around on a regular basis.

Time will tell...the Cannibis Rex is on order and has been shipped so hopefully I'll have it in the v22 later in the week.

LPMojoGL
12-14-2009, 04:46 PM
Plugged the V22 into the Fender Tone-Master 4x12 with V30s for a bit last night. Much louder, and more open sounding. I was able to really crank the mids and move the bass up a bit. Definitely something to consider if one ever needed more juice outta this amp.

drakeguitar
12-14-2009, 06:31 PM
i don't wanna sound like a super noob...but i would love if someone has any recommendations on "breaking in the speaker"...i guess? lol or is that just nonsense? idk

ryanougrad
12-14-2009, 06:51 PM
OK, sorry if it's in here, I have read most of this thread and may have missed it as my eyes blurred, but does this have a good MV or would you need an attenuator for playing at low volumes? Looking for something to grab and go and practice on in my apartment.

grizdeluxe
12-14-2009, 07:06 PM
i don't wanna sound like a super noob...but i would love if someone has any recommendations on "breaking in the speaker"...i guess? lol or is that just nonsense? idk

I put mine in my closed back 2x12 and cranked it up! It has loosened up and handles high volumes much better as well as sounding a bit sweeter. You can also just leave it in the amp and play loud. This will exercise the speaker and have the same effect, it just might take longer.

OldToneDog
12-14-2009, 07:38 PM
Does anyone else notice a rather anoying high end thing going on with the stock speaker? I've been playing mine quite a bit and it hasn't improved in a noticeable way. I have a Celestion 70/80 speaker and it has some of the same brittle ultra highs that my Bugera 12 has at the moment...but not as pronounced as the Bugera 12. I've had the 70/80 for a long time and when played at lower volumes it sounds nice but at a certain level, not all that loud, you can really notice the unpleasant ultra highs. Wish I could decribe the sound better. It's definitely not chimey...more of a mini clang.

CitizenCain
12-14-2009, 08:39 PM
Can't say I've noticed any high end funny business. Truthfully, I haven't used the stock speaker that much. I've tried two replacements in mine, an Emi GB12 and an Emi Tonker. Both made the amp louder and sound bigger through the stock cab. Nothing sounds as good as the Celestion S-150 Sidewinder I have in an Avatar Vintage 1x12 cab. That cab makes the V22 sound huge!

LPMojoGL
12-15-2009, 09:30 AM
Does anyone else notice a rather anoying high end thing going on with the stock speaker? I've been playing mine quite a bit and it hasn't improved in a noticeable way. I have a Celestion 70/80 speaker and it has some of the same brittle ultra highs that my Bugera 12 has at the moment...but not as pronounced as the Bugera 12. I've had the 70/80 for a long time and when played at lower volumes it sounds nice but at a certain level, not all that loud, you can really notice the unpleasant ultra highs. Wish I could decribe the sound better. It's definitely not chimey...more of a mini clang.

i've noticed the metallic, spiky high end, mostly on the gain channel. Using a different speaker helped a bit, but I think a lot of this is coming from the amp itself. I was wondering if it was just mine because of the inconsistencies I've read about with these, along with all the rave reviews.

bemeyer
12-15-2009, 11:57 AM
i've noticed the metallic, spiky high end, mostly on the gain channel. Using a different speaker helped a bit, but I think a lot of this is coming from the amp itself. I was wondering if it was just mine because of the inconsistencies I've read about with these, along with all the rave reviews.

No spikiness here. All stock. Do you have the mid-boost engaged? This IMO adds some nastiness, though mid-level stuff..not highs.

Are you in the bright or normal input? I'd try normal if so.

LPMojoGL
12-15-2009, 12:52 PM
All stock, normal channel, no boost here. Only played using a Gibson Les Paul with SD Antiquity and Seth Lover. Treble and presence dialed around 4-5. Bass and mid 3-4. That's through stock speaker. Playing through V30s allowed me to crank the bass and mids more, but I felt the need to keep the treble and presence dialed back.

OldToneDog
12-15-2009, 04:08 PM
My Cannabis Rex arrives tomorrow. It will be interesting to hear how that smooths out the highs. I have a sweet old EV in a cabinet and that sounded really nice too. Just too much to haul around all the time.

I'll let you know what a little dope does for the Bug. :messedup

ryanougrad
12-16-2009, 07:30 PM
I just picked one up and as a PSA to anyone looking for one SamAsh in Hollywood, CA has one and will match Music123 at 297.

OldToneDog
12-16-2009, 08:16 PM
I got the Cannibus Rex installed in my v22 today. It's a nice sounding speaker and while it's not broken in yet, I can't say that it makes a significant improvement in the sound of the amp.

As a matter of fact, I was at band practice last night and just brought my Les Paul, a cord, and the stock V22. I was very happy with the amp in stock form. The guys commented on how they liked the tone and I was wondering if it was such a good idea to order another speaker to try since the stock speaker seemed to have broken in and it was really sounding good.

So as of today, without giving the CR a chance to break in yet, I'll rate this speaker comparison a draw. Each of these speakers have their own tonal character but the difference (at least at this point in time) is not worth the investment in the new speaker.

Well, I have a nice Blues Jr. that currently has a Celestion 70/80. That would benefit from either the Bugera 12 or the Cannibus Rex. I'll reserve final judgement until I give the CR a chance to break in a little more and use the CR in the v22 with the band.

Bottom line...save your money and give the stock speaker a chance to break in.

grizdeluxe
12-16-2009, 08:43 PM
Putting in a Hellatone 60 sure changed mine for the better. More low end, and a sweeter top end for sure.

OldToneDog
12-16-2009, 09:06 PM
Glad to hear that Griz but my v22 had plenty of low end from day one. I guess I was looking for more of an EV like smoothness that I thought the Cannibus Rex would add. It's a nice speaker but it's not an EV.

Speakers aside, it's amazing how this amp's cleans can go from Fenderish to British sounding to at times reminding me of a TopHat Ambassador A35 that I had in the past.

BTW: Thanks for starting this great thread!

CitizenCain
12-17-2009, 02:24 AM
With the two different speakers I've tried in my V22, a GB12 and a Tonker, I can't say that either one sounds significantly different than the stock speaker tonewise. The biggest difference is the volume/fullness increase. Both speakers make the amp sound louder and bigger, but not significantly different.

The GB12 was the closest to sounding exactly like the stock speaker but bigger/louder. The Tonker is a touch smoother.

777
12-17-2009, 01:56 PM
Hey guys,
Does the V22 have a 'line out' or some way that it can be run to a mixing board?

I've looked at the owner's manual PDF, but I can't seem to figure that out.

telewacker
12-17-2009, 06:18 PM
Picked one up today and it sounded really good right out of the box. I put Mullard 12AX7s in V1, V2, Sylvania power tubes, and swapped the speaker for a '69 Pre Rola G12M with an 003 cone. Now it's a total cream machine. I lost some headroom and bottom with the speaker, natch, but the tone is just beautiful. I have a similar vintage G12H with the same Pulsonic cone that might be more suitable with it's stouter bottom that I'll try soon.

Amazing how much amp you can get for $300!!

grizdeluxe
12-17-2009, 06:27 PM
Hey guys,
Does the V22 have a 'line out' or some way that it can be run to a mixing board?

I've looked at the owner's manual PDF, but I can't seem to figure that out.


No line out. EFX loop is all that you have but that probably isnt suitable for the board. I use an SM 57 and mix that into the board for gigs and that works well.

OldToneDog
12-17-2009, 07:37 PM
My v22 is sounding great now. I "warmed" up the bias a bit and now I'm hearing the great tone that the amp's capable of without the unmusical sound I was hearing on occasion. I discovered the need to warm up the bias by experimenting with the bias control. The unplesant tones I was hearing could be made worse by cooling off the bias. Warming it up slightly smoothed everything out. My current bias point reading is pretty close to -15VDC.

This is such a killer little amp!

existentialmelt
12-17-2009, 08:55 PM
Anyone running a chorus through the fx loop? I picked up a Modtone Aqua Chorus that just sucks the tone right out of the amp. So it's out.:nono

The only other pedals I've tried are a tremolo I built in the loop and an MXR Distortion + clone I built, a Cry Baby, and a Rotovibe in front of the amp. Those all sound great.:beer

CitizenCain
12-17-2009, 09:11 PM
My v22 is sounding great now. I "warmed" up the bias a bit and now I'm hearing the great tone that the amp's capable of without the unmusical sound I was hearing on occasion. I discovered the need to warm up the bias by experimenting with the bias control. The unplesant tones I was hearing could be made worse by cooling off the bias. Warming it up slightly smoothed everything out. My current bias point reading is pretty close to -15VDC.

This is such a killer little amp!

I've got mine set to just a hair over -15v too. Sounds great!

steve_man
12-17-2009, 09:51 PM
Wow, I must have played a dud. The V22 I tried out sounded awful, no matter how I tweaked it.

Pikesoldier
12-17-2009, 09:57 PM
i run an line 6 analog chorus model through the fx loop, along with all my other mod and eq pedals (on an m13). sounds great. only thing i push through the front of the amp are the dirt boxes and my wah for some sweet shafty tones. wakicha wakicha wakicha shaft..... oh yeah.....

using the v22 on the dirt channel in stereo with my superchamp xd running into a 2x12 on the clean channel is freakin heaven. blackface bite with vox crunch and marshall smoothness.

anyone else running it in stereo with another amp?

popthree
12-18-2009, 06:26 AM
Wow, I must have played a dud. The V22 I tried out sounded awful, no matter how I tweaked it.
you are not alone

grizdeluxe
12-18-2009, 06:47 AM
I'm currently running a wah, original ts-9,fat boost 3, and a univibe out front. I have an mxr 10 band eq running through the loop to beef up the mids for certain rhythms and leads. Sounds perfect.
I've never had this long of a honeymoon phase with an amp. It is by far the best blues amp I've owned, and the 70's crunch I get out of it satisfies my old school rock leanings.

existentialmelt
12-18-2009, 09:26 AM
you are not alone
:facepalm

Were you interested in getting the amp?

Leo27
12-18-2009, 10:49 AM
Wow, I must have played a dud. The V22 I tried out sounded awful, no matter how I tweaked it.

Yep, the duds are out there. I shipped mine back. No bass and very fizzy.

bemeyer
12-18-2009, 11:36 AM
Yep, the duds are out there. I shipped mine back. No bass and very fizzy.

Wow...sounds like a dud for sure. Mine has too much bass..I run it on ~2.

OldToneDog
12-19-2009, 12:18 PM
Sorry to hear about the duds. I wonder what the date codes are on the duds?

There are some really nice sounding v22s out there too. If I got a dud, I'd definitely return it for another. Even at the current MF price of $349 it's a hell of a deal.

LPMojoGL
12-19-2009, 02:31 PM
Sorry to hear about the duds. I wonder what the date codes are on the duds?

There are some really nice sounding v22s out there too. If I got a dud, I'd definitely return it for another. Even at the current MF price of $349 it's a hell of a deal.


I just got the RMA to return mine to Sam Ash. The random channel switching is a deal breaker. Sam Ash is out, and I'm not willing to wait forever for another malfunctioning new amp.
Does anyone else find that they have to have their drive channel volume maxed with the gain at 5+ to equal the clean channel volume around 5ish? I'm thinking maybe there is something up with my drive channel. It seems more spiky, tinny on the drive channel when comparing to the one I played at GC.

kev324
12-19-2009, 02:41 PM
I don't know if it's that extreme but my dirty channel seems more quiet that the clean. But I don't really use it much.\

Anyone one use any Menatone stuff with it? I'm looking into a Blue Collar or maybe a Red Snapper. Or a Timmy.

popthree
12-19-2009, 03:48 PM
:facepalm

Were you interested in getting the amp?
i was curious until i test drove one..but apparently that one was 'broken'... later, learning they are a behringer product, no, i'm not interested in purchasing one. great price, but unfortunately, if it seems to good to be true, it usually is...

but i'm genuinely glad some of you are enjoying them. it will however, be interesting to see how the consensus holds up once the honeymoons are over.

AustinIsPresent
12-19-2009, 03:51 PM
The amp is very loud and I can get good sparkly funk tones by keeping the gain low and volume fairly high. Backing off the guitars volume helps too. They are EL 84's though and do impart character when increasing the volume. I would say almost as good as an AC 15cc on the clean channel.

This morning I started messing around with the triode switch. I like it more now. Cranked up on the clean channel it has a ratty tweed vibe. Great for blues playing. More wooly and darker than the Pentode setting.

The bolded statement is false. I know that's a first page post, but... I gigged an AC15CC for a year. I played the Bugera for 2 hours. I would've loved to play a $350 amp instead of a $650, so much less of a sweat...but there's a reason there's a $300 price difference.

salsage
12-19-2009, 04:00 PM
I'm currently running a wah, original ts-9,fat boost 3, and a univibe out front. I have an mxr 10 band eq running through the loop to beef up the mids for certain rhythms and leads. Sounds perfect.
I've never had this long of a honeymoon phase with an amp. It is by far the best blues amp I've owned, and the 70's crunch I get out of it satisfies my old school rock leanings.


I'm in the honeymoon phase, just starting to play around with some effects. I have found some settings that suit me fine and I'm very happy with my purchase. Played my Gibson SG thhrough it. Excellent. Loves the buckers.
A V22 w 3 year full warranty to my door for $319.98 bargain City. This amps a keeper.

OldToneDog
12-19-2009, 04:01 PM
I just got the RMA to return mine to Sam Ash. The random channel switching is a deal breaker. Sam Ash is out, and I'm not willing to wait forever for another malfunctioning new amp.
Does anyone else find that they have to have their drive channel volume maxed with the gain at 5+ to equal the clean channel volume around 5ish? I'm thinking maybe there is something up with my drive channel. It seems more spiky, tinny on the drive channel when comparing to the one I played at GC.

I just did a little test for you and found that regardless of gain level, my amp's clean/lead level controls work well and seem to be pretty close to equivalent apparent volumes when the volume controls are set the same. Getting a louder lead volume would be as easy as setting the clean volume to 7 and setting the lead volume to 10...regardless of the gain level.

uke
12-19-2009, 04:24 PM
I do find this thing loves humbuckers, sounds great but my strat can sound harsh in the OD channel, real hard to dial out.

existentialmelt
12-19-2009, 06:16 PM
i was curious until i test drove one..but apparently that one was 'broken'... later, learning they are a behringer product, no, i'm not interested in purchasing one. great price, but unfortunately, if it seems to good to be true, it usually is...

but i'm genuinely glad some of you are enjoying them. it will however, be interesting to see how the consensus holds up once the honeymoons are over.

So you are just waiting to see if we come back on here to complain about any problems we might encounter? Nice. Then you can get in here a say "look, I told you guys it was crap"... When in fact, no amp is problem free as I'm sure you must be aware of. I suppose it's your time, your energy and you can do as you please.

This amp is cool, in my opinion. Is it as good as some high dollar amps from respectable manufacturers? Most likely not and ever expected it to be.

popthree
12-19-2009, 07:38 PM
So you are just waiting to see if we come back on here to complain about any problems we might encounter? Nice. Then you can get in here a say "look, I told you guys it was crap"... When in fact, no amp is problem free as I'm sure you must be aware of. I suppose it's your time, your energy and you can do as you please.

This amp is cool, in my opinion. Is it as good as some high dollar amps from respectable manufacturers? Most likely not and ever expected it to be.
lol, so i'm not welcome in the thread because my experience with the amp differs from your own ? get a grip. its not like i'm being some disruptive voice here. i read a lot of threads besides this one fella.

existentialmelt
12-19-2009, 08:16 PM
lol, so i'm not welcome in the thread because my experience with the amp differs from your own ? get a grip. its not like i'm being some disruptive voice here. i read a lot of threads besides this one fella.

Your are not disruptive. You just annoy me slightly. No big deal.

You are always welcome here. :banana

OldToneDog
12-19-2009, 11:15 PM
I do find this thing loves humbuckers, sounds great but my strat can sound harsh in the OD channel, real hard to dial out.

Did you try warming up the bias a little? That really smoothed things out for me.

uke
12-20-2009, 07:58 AM
I had mine originally at -5.8 Vdv, man did it sound good but the tubes were just glowing, right now it's set at about -15Vdc. In the mean time waiting for a bias rite to get a bias reading I can understand. That'll help set the bias right on.

OldToneDog
12-20-2009, 01:01 PM
I had mine originally at -5.8 Vdv, man did it sound good but the tubes were just glowing, right now it's set at about -15Vdc. In the mean time waiting for a bias rite to get a bias reading I can understand. That'll help set the bias right on.

They do sound great when the tubes are melting don't they? :dude

Mine really seems to like -15Vdc. Let us know what the bias rite says the proper ball park is...even if -15 is "wrong" the sound is so nice I'm likely to just leave well enough alone.

CitizenCain
12-20-2009, 02:28 PM
Well here's my latest V22 experience. My amp is back to completely stock, tubes, speaker, everything. Bias is at -15v which is about where it was when I got it, just a touch warmer. You know what? It sounds friggin' great! I think I'll just leave well enough alone too and play the damn thing!

salsage
12-20-2009, 03:02 PM
I had mine originally at -5.8 Vdv, man did it sound good but the tubes were just glowing, right now it's set at about -15Vdc. In the mean time waiting for a bias rite to get a bias reading I can understand. That'll help set the bias right on.

I'm a little confused by this. I've been reading it measures in volts.:confused: not dcvolts? Also why is -5.8 hotter than -15? I may open mine up someday and some focus would be good.



Well here's my latest V22 experience. My amp is back to completely stock, tubes, speaker, everything. Bias is at -15v which is about where it was when I got it, just a touch warmer. You know what? It sounds friggin' great! I think I'll just leave well enough alone too and play the damn thing!


I've been enjoying my amp stock. Have not even opened it up...yet.
I had all these plans for speaker and tube upgrade but have been pretty happy as is and just been playing it.

KGWagner
12-20-2009, 04:48 PM
I'm a little confused by this. I've been reading it measures in volts.:confused: not dcvolts? Also why is -5.8 hotter than -15? I may open mine up someday and some focus would be good.
Volts are volts. It's a measure of potential, or "pressure". It's always measured relative to something else, so depending on the reference point, the voltage may be positive or negative. Voltage that changes polarity over time may be referred to as "AC volts", where "AC" stands for "Alternating Current", or "DC volts", where "DC" stands for "Direct Current". Examples of AC would be house current, while DC is usually seen from batteries or power supplies that convert AC current into DC current.

Speaking of current, that's different than voltage. Voltage is a potential or "pressure", while current is a flow. Current is measured in amperes (amps) rather than volts. Power (watts) is the product of volage x current, or pressure x flow.

As far as how "hot" a bias value is...

Without going into a great deal of detail, a vacuum tube wants to conduct all the time. You control how much it conducts by holding back current flow with a control grid between the cathode and the plate of the tube, which acts as a sort of gate. This is where we apply a bias. The more negative we make that grid, the less the tube will conduct.

Since a bias set at -5v is less negative than one set at -15v, so it'll allow more current flow. Since power is voltage x current, we dissipate more power through a tube that has less negative bias on its grid. Current flow generates heat, so we say the tube is running "hotter". With no throttling at all, the tube will overheat and melt down, assuming your power supply doesn't burn up first.

Incidentally, the bias is called that because it's an offset value. The control grid changes voltage all the time, following the signal fed to it from the previous stage. That's how the tube behaves as an amplifier. With small fluctuations on the control grid, we control large fluctuations in current flow through the tube.

existentialmelt
12-20-2009, 06:07 PM
Volts are volts. It's a measure of potential, or "pressure". It's always measured relative to something else, so depending on the reference point, the voltage may be positive or negative. Voltage that changes polarity over time may be referred to as "AC volts", where "AC" stands for "Alternating Current", or "DC volts", where "DC" stands for "Direct Current". Examples of AC would be house current, while DC is usually seen from batteries or power supplies that convert AC current into DC current.

Speaking of current, that's different than voltage. Voltage is a potential or "pressure", while current is a flow. Current is measured in amperes (amps) rather than volts. Power (watts) is the product of volage x current, or pressure x flow.

As far as how "hot" a bias value is...

Without going into a great deal of detail, a vacuum tube wants to conduct all the time. You control how much it conducts by holding back current flow with a control grid between the cathode and the plate of the tube, which acts as a sort of gate. This is where we apply a bias. The more negative we make that grid, the less the tube will conduct.

Since a bias set at -5v is less negative than one set at -15v, so it'll allow more current flow. Since power is voltage x current, we dissipate more power through a tube that has less negative bias on its grid. Current flow generates heat, so we say the tube is running "hotter". With no throttling at all, the tube will overheat and melt down, assuming your power supply doesn't burn up first.

Incidentally, the bias is called that because it's an offset value. The control grid changes voltage all the time, following the signal fed to it from the previous stage. That's how the tube behaves as an amplifier. With small fluctuations on the control grid, we control large fluctuations in current flow through the tube.

Man, thanks for this great information. Learning about this stuff can be a bit daunting to me but you have explained it very well.

I'm going to hold off on my upgrade plans as well. It sounds real nice as is. :phones

KGWagner
12-20-2009, 08:12 PM
Man, thanks for this great information. Learning about this stuff can be a bit daunting to me but you have explained it very well.

I'm going to hold off on my upgrade plans as well. It sounds real nice as is. :phones
You're welcome. And if the amp sounds nice now, why mess with it? In my experience, trying to fix things that aren't broke is one of the quickest ways to break them <grin>

grizdeluxe
12-20-2009, 08:46 PM
The bolded statement is false. I know that's a first page post, but... I gigged an AC15CC for a year. I played the Bugera for 2 hours. I would've loved to play a $350 amp instead of a $650, so much less of a sweat...but there's a reason there's a $300 price difference.



I stand by that statement. I owned an AC 15 and found it one dimensional. The V-22 is far superion IMO for practice, and gigs. YMMV

RobH
12-21-2009, 05:19 AM
I stand by that statement. I owned an AC 15 and found it one dimensional. The V-22 is far superion IMO for practice, and gigs. YMMV

"Good tone" is such a subjective thing.

Over the years I have concluded that we (guitarist) are way too anal when it comes to gear. If it makes a noise & stays in tune somebody's gonna like it.

I like the noise a Vox AC15 makes & I like the noise my Bugera makes.
Does the V22 sound better than an AC15?
nope.
Does the AC15 sound better than the V22?
nope.
I like the V22 more because it is a cheap POS that shouldn't survive the trip home from the guitar shop, but it does.

existentialmelt
12-21-2009, 05:54 AM
"Good tone" is such a subjective thing.

Over the years I have concluded that we (guitarist) are way too anal when it comes to gear. If it makes a noise & stays in tune somebody's gonna like it.

I like the noise a Vox AC15 makes & I like the noise my Bugera makes.
Does the V22 sound better than an AC15?
nope.
Does the AC15 sound better than the V22?
nope.
I like the V22 more because it is a cheap POS that shouldn't survive the trip home from the guitar shop, but it does.

Well said.:bow

It also goes to show that brands that might have a bad rep can always turn things around and put something out there that's good. Back in the late 70s and then the 80s, the only time I saw anyone using Peavey, for example, was for PAs, bass players, and kids that wanted a cheap starter amp. These days they make some fine amps that I've seen dudes rave about. They turned it around, for the most part. Also, brands that have been known for greatness can put out crap from time to time. I didn't listen to the Marshall Haze for very long so it's hardly fair that I judge it too quickly, but my first impression was that it was a hunk of crap... I would certainly give it another chance, however. The ability to change ones mind is a good thing.:Devil

salsage
12-21-2009, 07:32 AM
Volts are volts. It's a measure of potential, or "pressure". It's always measured relative to something else, so depending on the reference point, the voltage may be positive or negative. Voltage that changes polarity over time may be referred to as "AC volts", where "AC" stands for "Alternating Current", or "DC volts", where "DC" stands for "Direct Current". Examples of AC would be house current, while DC is usually seen from batteries or power supplies that convert AC current into DC current.

Speaking of current, that's different than voltage. Voltage is a potential or "pressure", while current is a flow. Current is measured in amperes (amps) rather than volts. Power (watts) is the product of volage x current, or pressure x flow.

As far as how "hot" a bias value is...

Without going into a great deal of detail, a vacuum tube wants to conduct all the time. You control how much it conducts by holding back current flow with a control grid between the cathode and the plate of the tube, which acts as a sort of gate. This is where we apply a bias. The more negative we make that grid, the less the tube will conduct.

Since a bias set at -5v is less negative than one set at -15v, so it'll allow more current flow. Since power is voltage x current, we dissipate more power through a tube that has less negative bias on its grid. Current flow generates heat, so we say the tube is running "hotter". With no throttling at all, the tube will overheat and melt down, assuming your power supply doesn't burn up first.

Incidentally, the bias is called that because it's an offset value. The control grid changes voltage all the time, following the signal fed to it from the previous stage. That's how the tube behaves as an amplifier. With small fluctuations on the control grid, we control large fluctuations in current flow through the tube.

I appreciate your response and certainly picked a few things up from it.

grizdeluxe
12-22-2009, 12:10 AM
Well said.:bow

It also goes to show that brands that might have a bad rep can always turn things around and put something out there that's good. Back in the late 70s and then the 80s, the only time I saw anyone using Peavey, for example, was for PAs, bass players, and kids that wanted a cheap starter amp. These days they make some fine amps that I've seen dudes rave about. They turned it around, for the most part. Also, brands that have been known for greatness can put out crap from time to time. I didn't listen to the Marshall Haze for very long so it's hardly fair that I judge it too quickly, but my first impression was that it was a hunk of crap... I would certainly give it another chance, however. The ability to change ones mind is a good thing.:Devil

I didnt mean to diss on the Vox. The thing with the V-22 is you can gig it with no pedals. Just plug and play. Try that with an AC 15.

LPMojoGL
12-22-2009, 03:06 PM
I just did a little test for you and found that regardless of gain level, my amp's clean/lead level controls work well and seem to be pretty close to equivalent apparent volumes when the volume controls are set the same. Getting a louder lead volume would be as easy as setting the clean volume to 7 and setting the lead volume to 10...regardless of the gain level.

Thanks! There must've been something up with the amp I had. The V22 sounds great for the money, but like I suspected when I very first checked em out, they seem cheaply built and prone to problems. I might take a look at one again when they're available locally, but I done with em for now. Enjoy your amps, for those of you who have one that works!!!

existentialmelt
12-23-2009, 01:59 PM
Thanks! There must've been something up with the amp I had. The V22 sounds great for the money, but like I suspected when I very first checked em out, they seem cheaply built and prone to problems. I might take a look at one again when they're available locally, but I done with em for now. Enjoy your amps, for those of you who have one that works!!!

Man, that's a shame. If I thought they were cheaply built and prone to problems I wouldn't have bought one. I looked it over as much as I could before getting it. One thing I do not like is the mid boost. That's with a Strat with a Duncan SSL-5 in the bridge. Sounds so boxy to me, but I haven't tried working with it much.

I hope you get a cool amp and have better luck, though. Let us know what else you are looking at.:dude

OldToneDog
12-24-2009, 07:56 AM
Merry Christmas to Bug fans everywhere...and to the Bug haters too!

LPMojoGL
12-24-2009, 02:06 PM
Man, that's a shame. If I thought they were cheaply built and prone to problems I wouldn't have bought one. I looked it over as much as I could before getting it. One thing I do not like is the mid boost. That's with a Strat with a Duncan SSL-5 in the bridge. Sounds so boxy to me, but I haven't tried working with it much.

I hope you get a cool amp and have better luck, though. Let us know what else you are looking at.:dude

Thanks! Merry Xmas to all!

serialcarpen
12-25-2009, 03:11 PM
Hi Guys-
Merry Christmas :)
This is a long thread, so I appologize if this issue has been covered... But- I just picked up the v22, and while I love the sound, price etc, the gain channel has stopped working after about an hour of use, twice so far this week. Should I bring it back, or is this normal?

OldToneDog
12-25-2009, 03:38 PM
Hi Guys-
Merry Christmas :)
This is a long thread, so I appologize if this issue has been covered... But- I just picked up the v22, and while I love the sound, price etc, the gain channel has stopped working after about an hour of use, twice so far this week. Should I bring it back, or is this normal?

That's not normal at all.

Does this happen with both the footswitch and the channel select button on the front of the amp? Did you try removing the footswitch connector and try the panel switch? It may be footswitch related. If not, try removing and reseating the middle 12AX7 tube to see if that helps at all. Hopefully it's just a loose tube.

drakeguitar
12-27-2009, 02:59 PM
just got a v22 for christmas! so far its amazing...hope it doesn't die out on me anytime soon

salsage
12-27-2009, 03:52 PM
After 3+ weeks and moderate use my amp is flawless.

SeeMoore
12-29-2009, 03:28 PM
Guitar Center in Raliegh has a 22 combo if you guys are still having trouble finding them.

Also, Sam Ash has a Jet City 20 combo that I played for a bit, sounded good.

grizdeluxe
12-29-2009, 06:19 PM
After 3+ weeks and moderate use my amp is flawless.


5 months for me. My only problems have been the footswitch issue which was easily fixed, and one of the Bugera EL 84's took a chit and blew the fuse. No issues whatsoever ever that. Just tone for days. :)

uke
12-29-2009, 07:24 PM
Merry Christmas, reporting back on setting the bias on these v22s. Finally got the bias rite, measured a plate voltage of 336 volts, set one tube to 22ma, the other tube was reading 27.5. Took an average of the two, and set the bias to that average. Checked the bias point on the chassis and guess what it reads -15Vdc. So -15vDC appears to be the magic number for setting the bias on these Bugeras.

Maruuk
12-29-2009, 07:30 PM
Yeah my GC in Gilroy just had one sitting around on the floor, and probably a bunch in the back room. The drought seems to be over.

CitizenCain
12-29-2009, 07:32 PM
Merry Christmas, reporting back on setting the bias on these v22s. Finally got the bias rite, measured a plate voltage of 336 volts, set one tube to 22ma, the other tube was reading 27.5. Took an average of the two, and set the bias to that average. Checked the bias point on the chassis and guess what it reads -15Vdc. So -15vDC appears to be the magic number for setting the bias on these Bugeras.

Super info, uke. Thanks!

rockon1
12-29-2009, 07:40 PM
Merry Christmas, reporting back on setting the bias on these v22s. Finally got the bias rite, measured a plate voltage of 336 volts, set one tube to 22ma, the other tube was reading 27.5. Took an average of the two, and set the bias to that average. Checked the bias point on the chassis and guess what it reads -15Vdc. So -15vDC appears to be the magic number for setting the bias on these Bugeras.


Only with the set of tubes you are using at the moment. Another set may need more or less negative grid voltage to achieve the same plate current. Bob

OldToneDog
12-30-2009, 05:44 AM
Merry Christmas, reporting back on setting the bias on these v22s. Finally got the bias rite, measured a plate voltage of 336 volts, set one tube to 22ma, the other tube was reading 27.5. Took an average of the two, and set the bias to that average. Checked the bias point on the chassis and guess what it reads -15Vdc. So -15vDC appears to be the magic number for setting the bias on these Bugeras.

Thanks for the very useful info!

For those of us that don't own a bias rite or have a more technical knowledge of tube amp biasing, we could use the -15vDC as a good starting point and then make minor adjustments to the bias using our ears as a guide to adjust for the differences in power tubes as mentioned in a previous post.

Just don't get the bias too hot or else your tubes will be glowing. If you simply twirl the bias knob without watching the voltage, you can easily light up your tubes. If you go too cold, you'll hear a nasty distortion when playing the clean channel.

When in doubt, set the bias voltage to -15vDC.

CitizenCain
12-30-2009, 06:40 AM
For those of us that don't own a bias rite or have a more technical knowledge of tube amp biasing, we could use the -15vDC as a good starting point and then make minor adjustments to the bias using our ears as a guide to adjust for the differences in power tubes as mentioned in a previous post.

Exactly. It's a good starting point to tweak from and someplace you can always get back to when you totally confuse yourself :wave

salsage
12-30-2009, 07:04 AM
very good info!
I have a new set of reissue Mullard el84's and now am tempted to swap them out now that -15vdc is confirmed.
I finally got around to swapping a couple preamp tubes. GT Mullard in v1 JJ 12ax7 in v2 and TS reissue in v3. very slight nice change.
Can someone confirm v1 v2 v3 left to right as its appears to me?
Happy Holidays everyone!

Leo27
12-30-2009, 07:23 AM
Guitar Center in Raliegh has a 22 combo if you guys are still having trouble finding them.

Also, Sam Ash has a Jet City 20 combo that I played for a bit, sounded good.

I exchaged my defective V22 for a Jet City 20 watt head at the same $279 sale price without any discussion with Music123.

bonchie123
12-30-2009, 07:50 AM
I'm sure they are good amps for the money.

The guy on youtube who pits every "Booogera" up against vintage and boutique amps, saying how they are just as good, is a bit annoying though.

salsage
12-30-2009, 11:08 AM
I exchaged my defective V22 for a Jet City 20 watt head at the same $279 sale price without any discussion with Music123.

The Jet City amps are getting some good press. Congrats!

I received a V22 unit with no apparent flaws and it sounds great so I'm pretty happy.

KGWagner
12-30-2009, 11:18 AM
The Jet City amps are getting some good press. Congrats!

I received a V22 unit with no apparent flaws and it sounds great so I'm pretty happy.
I've read a lot of good things about the Jet City amps, too. But, I'll bet you a dollar to a hole in a donut they're coming out of the same or a similar factory in the far east. They're designed in the US, but they're fabrique en Chine. Same with the Bugera amps. They're designed in Germany, but built in China. If either were built in Germany or the US, they'd easily cost 3 times as much.

ripoffriffs
12-30-2009, 01:04 PM
What about the V55 HD head? Anyone try those out yet? I think it's supposed to mimick the Marshall 1987's or the Plexi generation but with 2 channels.

Anyone try one?

Pikesoldier
12-30-2009, 01:05 PM
running on 3 months trouble free. using it every day (almost).

RobH
12-30-2009, 02:14 PM
very good info!
I have a new set of reissue Mullard el84's and now am tempted to swap them out now that -15vdc is confirmed.
I finally got around to swapping a couple preamp tubes. GT Mullard in v1 JJ 12ax7 in v2 and TS reissue in v3. very slight nice change.
Can someone confirm v1 v2 v3 left to right as its appears to me?
Happy Holidays everyone!

I have Mullards in mine and the voltage is -17VDC.
Anyone who is setting their bias by the grid voltage could be causing harm to their power tubes.
Don't take my word for it,
http://www.aikenamps.com/Biasing.html
http://www.eurotubes.com/euro-bugera.htm

RE: Tube order, power tubes, V3, V2, V1

RobH
12-30-2009, 02:22 PM
Merry Christmas, reporting back on setting the bias on these v22s. Finally got the bias rite, measured a plate voltage of 336 volts, set one tube to 22ma, the other tube was reading 27.5. Took an average of the two, and set the bias to that average. Checked the bias point on the chassis and guess what it reads -15Vdc. So -15vDC appears to be the magic number for setting the bias on these Bugeras.

That is a poorly matched set of tubes. My stock pair was off by about 4mA.

Maybe bugera isn't really matching the tubes...or doing so with a very liberal tolerance.

CitizenCain
12-30-2009, 06:05 PM
5.5 mA apart is hardly different than 4 mA apart.

RobH
12-30-2009, 07:03 PM
no, but it is a big difference from 1mA apart.
5mA is greater than 20% imbalance.

If the transformer voltage is 375V then 22mA = 8.25 watts; 27.5mA = 10.3 watts

With the bias set like this the tubes are going to have a short life span if the amp is cranked up at all. If you turn the bias back then one tube is going to be too cold and possibly effect the tone.

I wasn't happy about finding a 4mA (approximate, I don't remember the actual difference) imbalance between my power tubes. Now finding out someone else has an even greater imbalance leads me to suspect that Bugera is working with a very liberal tolerance in the tubes they install.

That could explain why "supposedly" so many new Bugera amps have power tube failures.

CitizenCain
12-30-2009, 07:25 PM
Oh, I didn't read your other post closely enough. I thought you said your matched tubes were 4 mA apart. Sorry.

radialaced
12-30-2009, 07:36 PM
Anybody know what size/thread the screws for the speaker are? They are really close to a 6-32 but they are something else. I wanted to try an old Jensen C12-PS I had hanging around but the paper gasket on the Jensen is thicker than the paper gasket on the Bugera speaker. I couldn't use the original screws because they are only 3/4" long and I need 1" screws. But I can't seem to match the thread.

As for the amp, I'm pleasantly surprised how good this amp sounds. I picked up mine around a week ago and I've done two shows and a rehearsal with it, (miked up). I like it. I've even got compliments during sound check. People are used to me showing up with vintage Fender amps, Marshall stuff or my Fuchs and yet this $350 amp was doing it for us.

The clean channel reminds me of the Maz Jr I used to have. I've had several EL84 amps including Maz jr, Maz Sr, Marshall 1974X, Mesa Boogie DC-3, VHT Pittbull, Blues Jr. I've also owned yellow jacket tube converters that convert 6L6 and 6V6 amps to EL84. My experience with EL84's is that the do a great job of retaining "string to string" definition while distorting gracefully, and bass notes don't sound woofy. On the other hand EL84's can get a little "ice picky" if not designed in properly or mated to the right speaker etc. That being said the V22 is done right. The circuit, tone controls, speaker and cab all work together to provide a rich clean sound with plenty of low end.

The overdrive channel is even better than the clean. It provides a rich and sparkly distortion that cleans up pretty well with the guitar volume. I'm using a DD-2 delay in the loop and used the included footswitch to go between clean and overdrive.

CitizenCain
12-30-2009, 07:57 PM
Anybody know what size/thread the screws for the speaker are? They are really close to a 6-32 but they are something else. I wanted to try an old Jensen C12-PS I had hanging around but the paper gasket on the Jensen is thicker than the paper gasket on the Bugera speaker. I couldn't use the original screws because they are only 3/4" long and I need 1" screws. But I can't seem to match the thread.

I'm sure you'd have to look at some metric sized thread. Not sure what's close to a 6-32 in mm. Take one of your screws to the hardware store, find a nut that will screw on to it, then find some longer screws of that size thread.

rockon1
12-30-2009, 07:59 PM
Again -15vdc really means nothing. It may leave one set of tubes cold and another too hot. Setting the bias by neg grid voltage is very inaccurate.
Read more here by a respected amp builder.

http://www.aikenamps.com/Biasing.html


......

RobH
12-30-2009, 09:28 PM
Anybody know what size/thread the screws for the speaker are? They are really close to a 6-32 but they are something else. I wanted to try an old Jensen C12-PS I had hanging around but the paper gasket on the Jensen is thicker than the paper gasket on the Bugera speaker. I couldn't use the original screws because they are only 3/4" long and I need 1" screws. But I can't seem to match the thread.


M3.5 X 20
you want M3.5 X 25