Bogner Shiva 6L6 ... what are the downsides here?

[Webfoot]

Looking for great clean and great dirt that is musical.

Besides the weight and cost, what were are the downside to the bogner shiva 6L6?

[spyeman]

I had a Shiva 6L6. There are WAY more upsides than downsides. Rather than list all the wonderful attributes, the issues I had were that I thought it was way too loud for my small venues to get the really good full tones, and the drive channel even with boost could not quite hit a really searing lead tone, I needed a pedal to get it 80's style. Others will disagree, but that's my take, again - there are 10 positives for every negative with a Shiva, I frankly am waiting a few months till some of the newer anniversary models, which have a touch more gain, come up used. Good luck

[pattste]

Negatives? I can think of many.

- You may hurt the feelings of your guitar playing friends who think they have great tone.

- You will eventually have GAS for another amp but may be unable to find a better one.

- You will realize that you spent a lot of money on OD/Distortion pedals you no longer need.

- Your wife will feel like she deserves a couple of new pairs of shoes.

[gtrs]

Killer amp with great cleans.
If more OD is needed just stick a RC Boost in front and your done.
I owned both models and prefer the 6L6 overall.

[tennisplayer]

Negatives? I can think of many.

- You may hurt the feelings of your guitar playing friends who think they have great tone.

- You will eventually have GAS for another amp but may be unable to find a better one.

- You will realize that you spent a lot of money on OD/Distortion pedals you no longer need.

- Your wife will feel like she deserves a couple of new pairs of shoes.

This is exactly what I was thinking!

[mattmccloskey]

The shiva is a great amp for what it does.

That said, the negatives for me:

It is in fact very heavy (I assume you are talking about the combo).

It is very expensive these days.

The overdrive voicing is great but very thick and compressed, with lots of lower midrange content. Not so good for early rock-n-roll sounds, beatlesque tones, or styles that require a leaner, toothier, more dynamic overdriven sound.

The closed back ported cab is very directional, very focused. If I couldn't manage to be in a fairly direct path from the speaker, I had trouble hearing myself clearly.

Overall I think the shiva is a fantastic amp at what it does. It's just a matter of where you play and the sounds you require, the space you have, and the amount of tonal variation you need.

[donkers]

My biggest issue with my Shiva is the volume drop when you use the reverb on the clean channel. The volume drop doesn't seem as big on the OD channel. Other than that I love it and I love the ported Shiva 1x12 cab I have paired up with it. I also wish it had a footswitchable effects loop.

[freaksho]

i have the 6L6 version and i love it, but if i'm being honest there are a couple things:

- the volume drop on the reverb is true, but i don't use the reverb so it's never an issue for me.

- one of the most common complaints people make is that the gain tones are a little compressed and congested and i can see why they say that. if you're into super touch sensitivity and virtuosity with every nuance jumping out at you might find yourself fighting her a little. it won't respond as willingly as the simple circuits of the old NMV classics, obviously.

- it needs to be pretty loud to sound it's best. those who complain about the gain tones being too dark would be stunned to see how that opinion would vanish once they get it up to band levels. but at low volumes i admit it's kinda true, though some eq tweaking can solve most of that.

- the other common complaint is that the clean channel is too clean, and some even go as far as to say it's sterile. i don't know really get that. i will admit that the clean channel stays clean to unholy volumes, so maybe that's what people are referring to. maybe they want a little bit of break-up in their cleans? or maybe some amps have inherently more or less natural harmonic distortion (even when clean) and this leads to debates using words like "warm", "natural", "sterile", etc? i don't know enough about electronics and amp design to say. all i can say is the cleans sound great to me.

- in my opinion the combo is not the way to go for two reasons: (1) the weight is too much for me, (2) the stock CL80 is not a great speaker for this amp's gain tones.

you asked if the gain tones are "musical" and that can mean many different things to many people. so obviously it is best for you to try one if you can (but you know that).

[traviswalk]

I had a 6L6 Shiva combo, loved the cleans for sure, which is why I chose that over the EL34 option. If I had to do it again I would get a head vs. a combo as I like to vary up the speakers and run a 2x12. The 2x12 combo with the Shiva is a heavy beast. Great amp.

[Webfoot]

Well I am looking at the Shiva 6L6...

From left field... any play the red plates or ulbricks?

[harryjmic]

I had a head version. I owned this amp briefly after previously owning a Matchless Clubman. The Shiva was really nice for a channel switcher, without a doubt one of the better ones. What sent it packing (rather quickly I may add) is that the cleans and the overall feel (response) while nice just didn't have that swirl and 3d staging like the Clubman.

You can get the clean channel pretty gainy if you raise the master, so hair on the notes is not an issue. The gain side was great and I loved the boost but what is kind of funny is I had a Lovekraft Chupacabra and I could almost get the same tones out the pedals I could going through the lead channel. It wasn't exact, but I bet live you could never tell.

Overall, I really have nothing negative to say about the amp, I just prefer the feel of the Matchless amps as they seem to be more organic and flow with my playing. For example, when I would hit a note on the Shiva I would wait for it to morph into something great and it just sat there. The Clubman would take me on an adventure as the bloom and harmonic complexity of the amp would start carrying the note to another place.

In short the Shiva is an amplifier while the Matchless is an instrument, this my opinion of course, but the Matchless seems more alive if that makes any sense at all.

[Stormin]

In short the Shiva is an amplifier while the Matchless is an instrument, this my opinion of course, but the Matchless seems more alive if that makes any sense at all.

Harry, you know I respect your opinion as much as anybody's - especially when it comes to Matchless amps. That said, I think for the sake of this thread, comparing a Shiva to a Clubman isn't realistic. Those two amps couldn't be more different in terms of feel and sonic foundation. It's like trying to compare Zimbabwe to North Korea. That's pretty much the reason why I own a Shiva AND a Chieftain. There's no overlap at all.

To answer the OP, I belive the Shiva IS very musical on both channels - as long as your fundamental tones stem from the JCM800 tree. I have an older EL-34 NR head that I've been gigging regularly for over a year. I probably have 40+ gigs on it at this point. I play in a rock covers band and we play harder rock from the mid 70's to modern. I also feel that I get a lot of Bonamassa / Warren Haynes / Gary Moore / ZZ Top type stuff out of the Shiva as well. It's an extremely versatile amp (provided your looking for a JCM800 base of tone).

Hope this helps,

Stormin!

[harryjmic]

Harry, you know I respect your opinion as much as anybody's - especially when it comes to Matchless amps. That said, I think for the sake of this thread, comparing a Shiva to a Clubman isn't realistic. Those two amps couldn't be more different in terms of feel and sonic foundation. It's like trying to compare Zimbabwe to North Korea. That's pretty much the reason why I own a Shiva AND a Chieftain. There's no overlap at all.

I know this, but this is why I mentioned what I did. He may get one and then realize after that the feel isn't right for him, I wanted to save him the trouble.

They are two different things, for me I don't want this, others might. I just didn't want to change how I played, I felt like this was happening to me when I used the Shiva.

[Stormin]

They are two different things, for me I don't want this, others might. I just didn't want to change how I played, I felt like this was happening to me when I used the Shiva.

Excellent point. Rock on brother Chieftain!

[harryjmic]

Excellent point. Rock on brother Chieftain!

You better believe it. BTW, I also have a SC30. :drink

[Stormin]

You better believe it. BTW, I also have a SC30. :drink

I thought you're selling the SC-30...

[harryjmic]

I thought you're selling the SC-30...

I put crappy tubes in it and all the tube shields and for whatever reason it sounds a lot better...go figure. I'll hold on to for a bit longer.