2009 6BQ5 Tone Shoot-Out!!!

[daveg777]

:banana:crazy:banana:crazy !!!

Ladies and Germs! I spent the better part of my morning off work rolling various sets of 6BQ5/EL84's through the Lightning clone. Fun stuff always as I tend to slobber over any new revelation in tone my ears can find. No biasing preformed after tube swapping as the amp is cathode bias and I am lazy ! :eek:

I didnt use any JJ's or other new production tubes for this as I dont own any. I choose to roll NOS for no other reason than the tubes contain Majik Dust...oh and sound better...and last longer...and cost more! :bong

Guitar is my trusty Lester with Fralins, going into a 2x12 ported cab loaded with Reinhardt R65H's. Lava ELC handles the signal from guitar to pedals which were the Lovekraft Crawling Kingsnake, a Honey Bee Clone, and getting it all started Lovekraft Pusher boost pedal. :crazy

GE Round Grey Plates: Love these 4-ever with their sweet smooth sound but sounded kinda average in this particular amp. Just nothing more to write.

RCA Round Dark Grey Plates: Sounded like a "bigger" GE in that all the frequencies seemed boosted. FAT and round sounding to me, and killed when played in the neck position, so bluesy! Really did well when hit with just the boost. Bridge sounded ok but not amazing.

Sylvania Round Black Plates: OMG. WOW. GEEZ. Must be the Lightning Logo on the box matches my Lightning? :D SPECTACULAR tone in every way in every position dirty or clean. Punch-in the Kingsnake and stand back Jack! Harmonic Central here. Just the mix of treble and low mids for an edgy but fat tone. WOW.

Amperex Bugle Boy: Jangley dee-light! Man these tubes are so musical and balanced they really did both clean and dirty very very well and were my go to for months now. Throaty in the neck, jangle clean bridge, and complex crunchy goodness when hit with the dirt. Bad-ass tubes...

Sylvania Round Grey Plates 7189: Sounded like the Black Plates but not as "forward"? These are very sweet indeed with all the Black characteristics but more laid back?. I know, stupid but my thread right? :nuts

Raytheon Rectangular Grey Plates: Very interesting tube. Looks very close to a Euro tube constructioin wise, Valvo/Tungsram/Mullard/Tele. Not bad sounding tubes. Really like the dirty tones as the treble is bitting and the focussed low-end fat but clear sounding.

Mixed pair of GE Round Plate with Amperex Bugle Boy: If you have not tried mixing tubes of different makes, you know not sinful pleasures you have missed. This combination DESTROYED all the other sets. Not even close. Clean tones CHANGED the way the Lightning sound to me totally. I mean take the amp because the fat juicy tone monster instead of just excellent jangle. I cannot believe how amazing this combo is. I left them in the amp. Game over. Fat cleans, ZZ crunch, SRV tones with the Kingsnake are incredible. I want to overstate this: I cannot believe a pair of output tubes could impact tones this much.

Sooo....lots of fun, learned alot more about my amp andmy ears preferences. I hope you guys try some tube rolling for yourself. I challenge you to not believe the good folks who think that power tubes dont have a major impact on tone. At least they do in my handwired Lightning clone, just sayin'.....


Dave


:dude:dude:dude

[jaydawg76]

Thanks for the review!

With EL84 I've always preferred a mismatched set. The best sounding ones I've had were a set of GE's that were off by 4 mA.

[Groovey Records]

so were you using a pair or a quad. I don't know the amp you have "Lightning Clone" please say more

I just got a strong recommendation for rX-type Sittard labeled Phillips or Mini Watts from Timbre Wolf

[Billm]

So... you rolled somewhere between $1000 and $1500 worth of tubes to find the ultimate tone?

Expensive hobby! But gratifying, nonetheless.

The questions I always ask are, "Can the audience hear a difference?" and "Can a mic record the difference?" and the answers are generally "no" and "maybe."

[jaydawg76]

The questions I always ask are, "Can the audience hear a difference?" and "Can a mic record the difference?" and the answers are generally "no" and "maybe."

When you get down to this level of tone chasing it's not for the audience or the mic. It's for the player. I know we have all experienced the this. When you're diggin' the sound you're getting and the guitar you're playing that inspiration is passed along to your playing.

[Groovey Records]

sounds like fun to me

I would have to say If I am in the audience Maybe and if I am the recording engineer Yes

[daveg777]

Amp runs a pair of 6bq5/EL84's and a decent pair can run $40-80 on Ebay, so BillM I dont know that works out to $1000-$1500 on tubes but ok. They are pairs I have collected over the years. They certainly sound better than current production tubes to my ears. jaydawg76, that is a perfect summation of what I believe is truth, well said!



Dave

[Timbre Wolf]

Very nice to hear anothers' take on these gems, Dave. Too bad you didn't have any Tungsram, Polam/Telam, or black-plate RCA to try.

I just got a strong recommendation for rX-type Sittard labeled Phillips or Mini Watts from Timbre Wolf
Yeah - those '50s D-getter Miniwatt/Amperex from Sittard are my favorite prescription (rX type!) for quality tone! Dave, which "Amperex" did you use for the test? The type code is the first line of characters (second line identifies the factory and date). Can you read the codes on the side? rX or kM?

Cheers!

- Thom

[daveg777]

Timbre Wolf,

I have had pairs of Tungsram in the past, STELLAR tubes for sure. Another thought, does any one else here buy tubes for amps they dont currently own just to stash away NOS tubes? I come across a great price, I buy them as I am always swapping amps around. I currently have a decent stash of RCA, Sylvania, and Tung-Sol 6L6GC's and more on the way. But no 6L6 type amp! HA!


Dave

[vicdeluca71]

I've done a bit of rolling myself and as for el84's I've tried all that you have mentioned except for the Amperex in 4 different amps,when it comes to NOS tubes I've have owned and tried in numerous amps most of the "HOLY GRAIL" 6l6's,el34's,el84's,12ax7's,at7's,etc.You should not discount rolling new prod tubes along with NOS you might miss out on something,I'm speaking tonaly here I understand that NOS tubes last longer but who really cares about that?,I don't.From my ex it all comes down to the amp/circuit,you said it yourself look at your post about the GE's,I just cringe when I see "NOS tubes just sound better" this statement could be completly right in the said amp and completly wrong in different amp.........I guess I'm really tired of this NOS bull**** it's soo misleading and only a half truth.

[Timbre Wolf]

I just cringe when I see "NOS tubes just sound better"
Well, don't expect me to agree with you, unless we're talking about one or two very rare (and specific) exceptions. I don't mind making a bold statement about the quality of vintage tubes, either, 'cause I've actually done my homework, with extensive listening comparisons.

Of course, your opinion of "better" may be congested, constricted, and indistinct ... then current-production tubes would suit you just fine.

But I do agree that there can be exceptions to any generalization that presumes to be an absolute rule :YinYang

- T

[vicdeluca71]

Well, don't expect me to agree with you, unless we're talking about one or two very rare (and specific) exceptions. I don't mind making a bold statement about the quality of vintage tubes, either, 'cause I've actually done my homework, with extensive listening comparisons.

Of course, your opinion of "better" may be congested, constricted, and indistinct ... then current-production tubes would suit you just fine.

But I do agree that there can be exceptions to any generalization that presumes to be an absolute rule :YinYang

- T

Timbre Wolf,I understand you have a bias on this subject from past posts and I would not expect anything less than a bold statement from you,you apparently have alot to offer on this matter.That being said I still think that better build quality does not translate to better sound,just different.Than again your opinion of "better" may be better than mine.

[Timbre Wolf]

I still think that better build quality does not translate to better sound,just different.
Agreed! Behold the differences, and let individuals decide which they like "better"
Than again your opinion of "better" may be better than mine.
Never!!

Astrophysicists have determined that the Universe continues to expand, and not from a single-point source, but from every point within it. How does this relate, you may ask? Simply that each and every one of us is in the center of our own expanding Universe, and that only we know what is "best" from each unique perspective. :YinYang

- Thom

[vicdeluca71]

Never!!

Astrophysicists have determined that the Universe continues to expand, and not from a single-point source, but from every point within it. How does this relate, you may ask? Simply that each and every one of us is in the center of our own expanding Universe, and that only we know what is "best" from each unique perspective. :YinYang

- Thom


Well said,and thanks for the friendly debate....BTW,don't misunderstand me as a hater of NOS tubes,I'm not just the hype really gets on my nerves.

[tubeinmyhead]

Astrophysicists have determined that the Universe continues to expand, and not from a single-point source, but from every point within it. How does this relate, you may ask? Simply that each and every one of us is in the center of our own expanding Universe...


Does this explain why my pants are so damn tight???

:rimshot

Otherwise, +1 on the Amperex (mainly the Buggle Boys) - to my ears they have a fullness and balance that I haven't heard elsewhere (new or NOS)

[epluribus]

Thanks Dave! Cool review. :)