Lets talk specifically about synths and samplers

[re-animator]

so in the process of moving to the east coast i ditched my old keyboard, and am looking to start up a new rig.

I was formerly the owner of a Technics (yeah, i guess they made keyboards too) sx-KN3000. Kind of a 61 key workstation type in the $750-1000 range. I almost always used it as a plug and play. Never touched the sequencer or delved into midi :hide Mostly used it for synth sounds, strings, pianos, organ and overdubbing bass parts.

now as i'm hoping to assemble a much more effective studio I'm hoping to pick something up that can bring me into a more computer based setup. I plan on messing with some soft synths, but I don't want to limit myself to software, as i'd like to have a more tangible (and live-ready) unit at my disposal as well.

What I'm most interested in is scoring (.... ha ha). Its definitely been a long term goal of mine to eventually do some soundtrack work on indie films. Not saying this gear has to be 100% ready for that sort of thing, but hopefully will be a step in the right direction. I understand samplers are much more desirable for this sort of thing than synths. In addition to that i do a lot of ambient, experimental, and modern classical compositions (listen to Nightshade (http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7038607) and Starblind (http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7626940)). Either entirely keyboard based, or in tandem with some weird guitar playing. The last important context i'd be using a keyboard for would be the standard rock/pop vein. No piano pop, almost entirely just use of organ and analog synth type sounds (gary numan, mgmt, etc). I've been toying with the idea of working on some hip hop as well, but that's just a thought at this point.

So I know there are a few ways to go with this sort of thing... here's what I understand:

1.) All midi/soft-synth based. Get a controller or two and let Absynth, NI, etc. do the grunt work. I've got a reasonably fast and uncluttered PC to work with (core2duo, 4gb ram), but nothing purpose built for music. The upside here would be keeping the cost down, but i would lose a lot of the flexibility of having a regular synth/sampler for playing out, etc. 80-90% of the foreseeable use would be in the lab, but being able to play out is really important to me.

2.) Hardware synth, supported by soft synth/sampler. I'm thinking something mid-grade but reasonably powerful like the Yamaha MM6. From what i understand its quite a versatile keyboard and highly usable. Here I'd have a solid set of keys and still freedom to delve into samplers, albeit software based.

3.) Hardware synth, outboard sampler, supported by soft synths. Stick with the MM6/Soft synths rig, but add a (likely older model) rack sampler for use on ambient and soundtrack type stuff. Since sampling probably isn't going to provide a huge benefit in a live setting (synths are usually "close enough for rock and roll") i can still use a simple hardware synth live and have the flexibility and fidelity of sampling when i need it at home. Downside i'm guessing is due to my budget, in paying for all this I'd probably have to settle with a less powerful sampler.

4.) Hardware sampler, soft synths. There's an old Kurzweil K2000 (http://newyork.craigslist.org/que/msg/1357369628.html) keyboard for cheap on craigslist in my area. I understand these kurzweils are all sample-driven. Now i'm not sure what the real difference is between these older keyboard samplers and the big-boy studio samplers... could somebody enlighten me?



forgive my ignorance on this subject.... i'm more of a keyboard player than a gear whore (ya know... opposite my guitar playing :rockin ), but i'm sure there are things i'm misunderstanding or leaving out of the equation. halp?

[PosterBoy]

On the Soft synth side of things this is really good and fun to play with

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF8SYLjl07g

It has can be used for live use. We are trying to find a stable environment for it to be on to use for live work at the moment.

[re-animator]

wow, wonderful sounds! They seem like they could be really great for soundtrack type stuff. I was leaning toward absynth and maybe some samplers but i'll have to give this some thought.

with software stuff this good, i think it would be redundant to have a good hardware synth, an outboard sampler, and soft synths. since a hardware synth seems like a necessity for me, i guess the outboard sampler is the odd man out.

[JamonGrande]

I would guess based on the clips you linked to, you may want to check out the soft-synth options from Garritan (http://www.garritan.com/)products, particularly the personal orchestra. It should have more than enough of what you want at a very reasonable price. That, a computer and a controller should do the job.

Then you add some other soft synths, a good sequencer and you could take your pieces to live situations with a pretty minimal setup.

Back when I was interested in such things, Giga-synth/giga-sampler was a regular staple for demos by film/tv composers. Then Tascam bought out the company. I haven't kept track for the last decade or so, since. Back then Giga-synth was such a powerful unit that it essentially required a separate computer to be driven by another computer running a sequencer. I can only assume we're past that for the most part.

I gave up simply because I was looking for a lot of extended technique sounds that took way too much work to happen with almost any synthesizer. In the end I worked harder to bend the sounds to my will, rather than writing for the resources available to me (including trained musicians who were willing to achieve the sounds I wanted).

That said, my experience has taught me to compose for the sounds I (will/can/already) have and do creative things there, rather than wishing for the "perfect" sample/synth setup. It can easily become another form of GAS that in some ways is even more frustrating than guitar-GAS.

imho

by the way, are you still at SDSU? feel free to pm me

joe

[re-animator]

hmmm sounds interesting. I'm assuming the sample stuff isn't going to do me much good for rock, which is why I'd hope to have a more practical (for me) hardware synth option for playing out, rehearsals, etc. and quality softsynths at home/in the studio. After all, almost every synth out there is going to be useable as a midi controller when at home, and then can pull double duty by standing alone in other situations.

pm coming

[Austinrocks]

for stand alone live performances my Korg Karma is pretty hard to beat their triton LE series has a digitial sampler the karma lacks, the karma is somewhat old, but if you can find a used one should be $500 or so. Steve Kay's Karma Labs has a lot of great software, the interface is a floppy disk which is a major pain now days.

http://www.karmalab.com/people/skay.html

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5f/Korg_KARMA.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5f/Korg_KARMA.jpg)


the Oasis also has the sampler and Karma features. The karma feature lets you vary the performance live, eight knobs that are assignable to do things like change the drums, go to only then the high hat or bass drum is what I use it for. The on board recording features of the workstations for live performance, It your intending to move these I would avoid the weighted keyboards, they are heavy my Roland RP300 has Quick Lok Z71,
http://www.quiklok.com/catalog/files/Z-71-_m.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:windowGallery( 122, 78, 1 );)




it destroys all the weaker stands, the karma is very easy to transport, I can get by with just that live If I want.

The Karma and tritons are early 2000 technology, if you can get a used oasis which does CD burning, my Karma is floppy disk for the programing. Triton uses the ROM stick I beleive, may pickup an Oasis hear soon, your getting my keyboard gas going.


http://www.korg.com/product.aspx?pd=214

for recording i use a USB midi interface to the computer, I have the four channel m audio

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/204025-REG/M_Audio_9900_40713_00_MIDISport_4x4_USB.html

for mixing the song mine software is Cubase,

http://www.steinbergusers.com/cubase/cubase.php


The workstations do have on board recording feastures, which is good for live performance, but the computer editting is really needed for CD production, its been a few years since I have done this stuff and the technology changes constantly in this area. So a some one may have some more resent developments that you be aware of.

[re-animator]

cool cool, i haven't had too much chemistry with korg stuff in the past (but i guess my ac30 might count too?) but it looks like i got a lot of synths to scope out now.

[Bassomatic]

Nord.

[razorbladeSD]

+1 on the Nord.

For a sampler, I would look for a used Akai S6000.

[GovernorSilver]

I gave up simply because I was looking for a lot of extended technique sounds that took way too much work to happen with almost any synthesizer. In the end I worked harder to bend the sounds to my will, rather than writing for the resources available to me (including trained musicians who were willing to achieve the sounds I wanted).

That said, my experience has taught me to compose for the sounds I (will/can/already) have and do creative things there, rather than wishing for the "perfect" sample/synth setup. It can easily become another form of GAS that in some ways is even more frustrating than guitar-GAS.


I'd be interested in more info about the setup you've arrived at. Knowing that you went to UCSD, I have no doubted you arrived at something off the beaten path. They were into Max/MSP on the SGI Indigo platform when I graduated.