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View Full Version : Anyone else hate vintage tuners?


Texas_Blues
09-11-2009, 11:16 AM
I love my RW, but I can't stand putting on new strings, these split tuners are so difficult compared to my other strat's modern tuners. Anyone else hate these split tuners?:boxer

John Thigpen
09-11-2009, 11:19 AM
I disagree...I prefer them to almost everything else. When my oldest son was one, he grabbed a headstock and pricked his finger on the string end and started bawling. That doesn't happen with vintage Kluson style tuners.

I really hate the 70's Fender tuners with the F on the back. My '72 Tele came with them (in 1972), and I couldn't change them fast enough. Cheap crap.

John

ROKY
09-11-2009, 11:21 AM
I disagree...I prefer them to almost everything else.

John

:agree

Ayrton
09-11-2009, 11:22 AM
There are few things in life that I despise more than Fender sealed tuners.

I like vintage tuners on strats and teles.

Platypus
09-11-2009, 11:24 AM
Vintage tuners are way easier for me

Stike
09-11-2009, 11:33 AM
Gimmie a locking Sperzel any day.

bluesgolfer
09-11-2009, 11:38 AM
I disagree...I prefer them to almost everything else. When my oldest son was one, he grabbed a headstock and pricked his finger on the string end and started bawling. That doesn't happen with vintage Kluson style tuners.

I really hate the 70's Fender tuners with the F on the back. My '72 Tele came with them (in 1972), and I couldn't change them fast enough. Cheap crap.

John

I agree. Love the split tuners. That's all I'll ever get now.

strat6866
09-11-2009, 11:41 AM
Love the split tuners. Sell me yours.

buddastrat
09-11-2009, 11:45 AM
They are simplest and best.

LensOfMadness
09-11-2009, 11:46 AM
I love the vintage tuners as well. I'm on a mission to put them on all my guitars now. It's just so much neater not to have to mess with the ends of the strings sticking out.

Guitarzandstuff
09-11-2009, 11:47 AM
Gotta agree with most! Love em.... simply cut, poke, turn!!

Tomo
09-11-2009, 11:48 AM
I love vintage tuners. I even put real 60s vintage tuners on my SRV strat.

Tomo

stevieboy
09-11-2009, 11:49 AM
I find them much easier, takes me a lot less time to change strings on my Fenders than my Gibsons etc.

JamminJoe
09-11-2009, 11:51 AM
It is almost unanimous here. I wish I could put vintage tuners on AmSer tele and strat without leaving any holes. I much prefer the vintage split tuners.

shark_bite
09-11-2009, 11:56 AM
Hahaha. I don't even see the point in throwing my opinion in too.

It almost looks like you were trolling there, bud. :roll

R13D
09-11-2009, 12:21 PM
Hahaha. I don't even see the point in throwing my opinion in too.

It almost looks like you were trolling there, bud. :roll
I was thinking the same thing.

Aran
09-11-2009, 12:27 PM
I like the Klusons on my Les Paul but the shafts are a tad short so you have to be careful how much wrap you have on the lower strings. Other than that idiosyncrasy I have no problem with them.

MarkF786
09-11-2009, 12:42 PM
I was a huge fan of locking tuners - then I came across vintage tuners with safety posts. Wow, they are great and very easy to use. Here's how you do it:

1. Cut the string about an inch past the post
2. Insert the string end into the hole in the post and bend it into the slot.
3. Tune to pitch.

This will give you a couple of string wraps around the post and it stays in pitch just as well as locking tuners.

Mark

Dubious
09-11-2009, 12:46 PM
i love the split tuners too

you know you can just string em and wrap em the REGULAR way without putting the ends down in the hole.

Texas_Blues
09-11-2009, 12:50 PM
Wow, lol it seems like Im the minority here. I cut the b string a little bit too much (It only tunes to a then comes out of the little hole), now I have to go buy a whole new set. Maybe it's because I've had this guitar for a month and I've had my other strat for 4 years.

xzzy
09-11-2009, 12:51 PM
I like trimming strings after I've wound them.. once you cut there's no going back. So, no vintage for me.

Way I see it, the pokey bits train people to understand they shouldn't be fiddling around with the headstock.

Release
09-11-2009, 12:53 PM
Love 'em

mc5nrg
09-11-2009, 12:59 PM
Once you learn how to use them they are great. Figure out how much excess you need past the post- folks usually suggest a two post distance, put a right angle bend into the string, and chop off most of the excess beyond the bend except for enough to shove in the hole and tune up. You can vary the number of wraps on the post by how much excess string you have, thus adjusting the angle from the nut to the tuners. With enough wraps and downpressure on the nut, you can pull the inner (G &D) string tree.

fullerplast
09-11-2009, 01:01 PM
Wow, lol it seems like Im the minority here. I cut the b string a little bit too much (It only tunes to a then comes out of the little hole), now I have to go buy a whole new set.

Operator error. No fault of the tuner. Look at the bright side...you'll now have 5 spare strings to practice on.;)

Vintage slotted are the best I've used, including all kinds of high end modern locking tuners.

mc5nrg
09-11-2009, 01:03 PM
P.S. Most stores sell single strings-no need to buy a whole set. However, buying strings by the box is generally the way to go.

Texas_Blues
09-11-2009, 01:03 PM
Well, I guess your right. Also why don't they sell strings separately? Ugh I hate stringing up guitars...Any one wanna be my guitar tech? I'll pay you in water and bread...anyone?

mc5nrg
09-11-2009, 01:07 PM
Uh....see above.

Texas_Blues
09-11-2009, 01:21 PM
Thanks, as you can see he posted it exactly when I posted it.

gkoelling
09-11-2009, 01:36 PM
vintage only

musicofanatic5
09-11-2009, 02:05 PM
Nope

Trebor Renkluaf
09-11-2009, 02:13 PM
Love vintage.

Jerrod
09-11-2009, 02:27 PM
I like 'em. But I like modern locking tuners too.

Boris Bubbanov
09-11-2009, 02:42 PM
I disagree...I prefer them to almost everything else.

I really hate the 70's Fender tuners with the F on the back. My '72 Tele came with them (in 1972), and I couldn't change them fast enough. Cheap crap.



There are few things in life that I despise more than Fender sealed tuners.

I like vintage tuners on strats and teles.

Vintage tuners are way easier for me


I agree. Special Kudos to John Thigpen on his blistering attack on the F style tuners. They are awful, no doubt. FMIC needs to understand, they're placing basically their whole MIM 69-72 Reissue line out of reach of many willing customers, by carrying over these lousy, easily worn out pieces of rubbish. There's no suitable replacement, either.

+++

Anyway, back to the Original Poster. May I respectfully suggest, you are not getting adequate instruction on how to load the string. There's a couple of cool ways of doing it; each includes at least one right angle bend with pliers applied to each string before it is loaded. Just cutting it a little and stuffing the end in the hole is NOT enough, if you hope to go from hating, to loving, this type of tuner.

gkoelling
09-11-2009, 02:52 PM
I agree. Special Kudos to John Thigpen on his blistering attack on the F style tuners. They are awful, no doubt. FMIC needs to understand, they're placing basically their whole MIM 69-72 Reissue line out of reach of many willing customers, by carrying over these lousy, easily worn out pieces of rubbish. There's no suitable replacement, either.

+++

Anyway, back to the Original Poster. May I respectfully suggest, you are not getting adequate instruction on how to load the string. There's a couple of cool ways of doing it; each includes at least one right angle bend with pliers applied to each string before it is loaded. Just cutting it a little and stuffing the end in the hole is NOT enough, if you hope to go from hating, to loving, this type of tuner.

Schaller makes a tuner that looks like a replacement for the crap "F" style, are those any better?

(I have no need for them...just curious)

Boris Bubbanov
09-11-2009, 03:10 PM
Schaller makes a tuner that looks like a replacement for the crap "F" style, are those any better?

(I have no need for them...just curious)

They tempted me, so I gave them a try:

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t25/Bubbanov/19AUG132009004.jpg

First, the cover is the wrong size, so I swapped the guts out, retaining the chrome 'F' covers of the originals but now the rest is nickel. 10.5 mm conversions.

The posts are very high, and of course they're not split shafts and that's a problem.

I'll restring again with much longer slack, to permit the D and G strings to wind down the posts further. As is the D and G have very little break - I'm not ready to deface the MIM 69 neck with a second tree but I need one right now.

The die cast body looks the same; the works are a different ratio and seem made of harder metal. Time will tell but the action of the machine is better.

But would I recommend these Schallers? No, not for this application.

khromagi
09-11-2009, 04:21 PM
I don't like vintage anything

Ayrton
09-11-2009, 04:25 PM
Schaller makes a tuner that looks like a replacement for the crap "F" style, are those any better?

(I have no need for them...just curious)

If you are going to replace the stock sealed tuners, then step up to the locking version.

http://wb-inc.net/Fender/Fender-Locking-Tuners.jpg

BrentB6
09-11-2009, 04:48 PM
Are you putting the string end in the hole of the tuner or are you just laying them across the slot?

bmutlu
09-11-2009, 04:54 PM
Tuning stability better than modern tuners.Non locking modern style tuners works with floydrose bridges.Locking tuners nice but effect to tone.

BrentB6
09-11-2009, 04:56 PM
Tuning stability better than modern tuners.Non locking modern style tuners works with floydrose bridges.Locking tuners nice but effect to tone.

sorry....could you explain that again.

bmutlu
09-11-2009, 05:05 PM
For which one ?

BrentB6
09-11-2009, 05:07 PM
For which one ?

In what way do locking tuners affect tone ?

bmutlu
09-11-2009, 05:23 PM
They are heavier than vintage and non locking modern tuners.
Weight on headstock affect your tone.I cant say it is bad or good,im sure not through to vintage way.

Texas_Blues
09-11-2009, 05:30 PM
Are you putting the string end in the hole of the tuner or are you just laying them across the slot?
Im sticking them in the hole.

shark_bite
09-11-2009, 05:35 PM
Im sticking them in the hole.

That's what she said.

DavidH
09-11-2009, 05:36 PM
Fastest and easiest type of tuner IMO. Cut the string to length (two post distance of excess length), stick in in the whole, wrap it round the post, wind it up, bish-bash-bosh, done!

frisco kid
09-11-2009, 05:55 PM
The split tuners are great....wish I could find them in a 3x3 set for Les Pauls.

candid_x
09-11-2009, 06:06 PM
Schaller makes a tuner that looks like a replacement for the crap "F" style, are those any better?

(I have no need for them...just curious)

I thought "crap F's" are made by Schaller?

I personally find nothing wrong with them, but then I'm not into the whole vintage fetish thing.

guitarfish
09-11-2009, 06:07 PM
I've never been able to figure out why they stopped using the split tuner. I don't own any, but I worked on a friend's 70s Tele that had them, and I was amazed how easy they are to use, with no worries about bloody fingers from poking the string tips.

I don't generally like anything vintage, but those split ones are a good design. I also like Sperzel locking tuners which I had on a Carvin.

BrentB6
09-11-2009, 06:16 PM
Fastest and easiest type of tuner IMO. Cut the string to length (two post distance of excess length), stick in in the whole, wrap it round the post, wind it up, bish-bash-bosh, done!

David speaks the truth.

On after market necks I notice that they are usually drilled for vintage....is that why ?

Jerrod
09-11-2009, 06:31 PM
The split tuners are great....wish I could find them in a 3x3 set for Les Pauls.

Search for Kluson/TonePros. They make 'em.

gkoelling
09-11-2009, 06:38 PM
I thought "crap F's" are made by Schaller?

I personally find nothing wrong with them, but then I'm not into the whole vintage fetish thing.


Maybe they are Schaller??? I have no experience with them. My crap comment came from previous posters assessment of their quality.

I was thinking these might be better, as they're a little more expensive.

http://www.allparts.com/Schaller-Diagonal-Mount-Keys-Nickel-p/tk-0759-001.htm

Boris Bubbanov
09-11-2009, 06:44 PM
Wow, lol it seems like Im the minority here. I cut the b string a little bit too much (It only tunes to a then comes out of the little hole), now I have to go buy a whole new set. Maybe it's because I've had this guitar for a month and I've had my other strat for 4 years.

Take a pair of needle nose pliers and put a 90 degree turn on that string.

You will be astonished at how short it can be and still hold sound.

The vast majority of the guys here are under-utilizing the strengths and capabilities of the Gotoh split shaft.

Gasp100
09-11-2009, 06:49 PM
Wait, I thought Dan Erlewine says you're supposed to actually run the string THROUGH the split, then wrap underneath and twist up. Basically, you DON'T use the little hole within the tuner at all!!!
:Devil

stormin1155
09-11-2009, 06:52 PM
I like vintage tuners. I've replaced "modern" sealed tuners with vintage. Love the simple look and the way they work.

Boris Bubbanov
09-11-2009, 06:53 PM
The split tuners are great....wish I could find them in a 3x3 set for Les Pauls.


http://www.allparts.com/Gotoh-Vintage-Style-Keys-Nickel-p/tk-0770-001.htm



+++++++


Folks, most of those "Schaller" tuners on your Fender guitars aren't made by Schaller. They're made under license in Asia.

I'm not even convinced the "Schaller Lockers" that are installed on Fender Deluxes are made by Schaller. They look markedly different and cheaper looking than the real MIG locking Schallers on my Comanches.

Gasp100
09-11-2009, 06:56 PM
Hate to say it but I think ya'll are stringing your "vintage" tuners wrong hahaha!!! Seriously, get Dan Erlewine's book; he explains why you should be laying across the split and stringing from that point. Funny how it took me 20 years to learn how to correctly string up guitars with different tuning machines.

guitarfish
09-11-2009, 06:59 PM
Hate to say it but I think ya'll are stringing your "vintage" tuners wrong hahaha!!! Seriously, get Dan Erlewine's book; he explains why you should be laying across the split and stringing from that point. Funny how it took me 20 years to learn how to correctly string up guitars with different tuning machines.

There was a time when turning an amp up so loud that it broke up was considered "wrong" too.:rotflmao

candid_x
09-11-2009, 08:31 PM
Maybe they are Schaller??? I have no experience with them. My crap comment came from previous posters assessment of their quality.

I was thinking these might be better, as they're a little more expensive.

http://www.allparts.com/Schaller-Diagonal-Mount-Keys-Nickel-p/tk-0759-001.htm
They look the same to me. Expensive on Allparts.

$61.14 here

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Schaller_Tuners/Schaller_M-6_Mini_Guitar_Machines.html?tab=Specs#details

Never mind, just realized yours are different, d'oh!


(http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Schaller_Tuners/Schaller_M-6_Guitar_Machines.html)

Texas_Blues
09-11-2009, 10:46 PM
Ok now this is weird...I got the B string to tighten to a B, right when I do that the high e tunes down, so I tune up and it pops up. It's got length but it wont go up to e without coming off.

FPicker
09-12-2009, 04:56 AM
Wait, I thought Dan Erlewine says you're supposed to actually run the string THROUGH the split, then wrap underneath and twist up. Basically, you DON'T use the little hole within the tuner at all!!!
:Devil


That's what I always do, but I'd been reading this thread and thought to myself I've been doing it wrong all these years, I'm supposed to be putting the string in the little hole !! Certainly would have saved me a pricked finger or two...

BadCohiba
09-12-2009, 05:45 AM
Yeah, I'm in the "Love them" camp. So simple, so easy. God bless the vintage tuner!

gkoelling
09-12-2009, 06:20 AM
Ok now this is weird...I got the B string to tighten to a B, right when I do that the high e tunes down, so I tune up and it pops up. It's got length but it wont go up to e without coming off.

You're doing something wrong. Can you post pics?

j_m_s
09-12-2009, 06:36 AM
Hate them to the core!

Pain to string.. geez. so many times i've cut the string too short. haha

The locking tuners on my strat are the easiest!

Pull, cut, tune. Voila.

Sweetfinger
09-12-2009, 06:53 AM
The more vintage, the better. I despise locking gears. To the people who hate the vintage gears because they accidentally cut the strings too short, that's like hating forks because your soup leaks out of them before you can get it in your mouth. Operator error.

j_m_s
09-12-2009, 07:31 AM
^ I do agree, but still!

*facepalm* (for myself)

fox5150
09-12-2009, 07:34 AM
I've got them on my '52 RI Tele and '62 Deluxe Player strat and they are the best machineheads on any of my guitars. Easy to string up, easy to take strings off for restringing, rock solid stability.

What's not to like?

Texas_Blues
09-12-2009, 07:45 AM
You're doing something wrong. Can you post pics?
I don't think Im doing something wrong I've changed the strings on my guitar like 5 times, this is the first time it's happened. Everything's normal its just being really finicky.

Jerrod
09-12-2009, 07:56 AM
I don't think Im doing something wrong I've changed the strings on my guitar like 5 times, this is the first time it's happened. Everything's normal its just being really finicky.

The B and the E can be finicky. Doesn't mean you're not doing something wrong. The bend is critical. If it's not sharp enough, the smaller strings will slip.

P.S. I thought all you Texas guys were born knowing everything about guitars. :hide

Texas_Blues
09-12-2009, 10:08 AM
Haha, well then I may not be truly from Texas :O What do you mean not sharp enough? and what bend (the bend to inside the hole?)

frisco kid
09-12-2009, 10:14 AM
Thanks BB but i don't think these are split shaft vintage style tuners which is what I've been looking for.

http://www.allparts.com/Gotoh-Vintage-Style-Keys-Nickel-p/tk-0770-001.htm



+++++++


Folks, most of those "Schaller" tuners on your Fender guitars aren't made by Schaller. They're made under license in Asia.

I'm not even convinced the "Schaller Lockers" that are installed on Fender Deluxes are made by Schaller. They look markedly different and cheaper looking than the real MIG locking Schallers on my Comanches.

musicman1
09-12-2009, 10:19 AM
I hates them. Dont care about devaluing the gtr. Vintage tuners get swapped out immediately. I loves being in tune.

Texas_Blues
09-12-2009, 10:31 AM
Ah I finally got all the guitar strings on, thank god for pliers...I hope they stay on when I play.

musicofanatic5
09-12-2009, 01:51 PM
Ok now this is weird...I got the B string to tighten to a B, right when I do that the high e tunes down, so I tune up and it pops up. It's got length but it wont go up to e without coming off.

Y'know after five pages, I am convinced locking tuners were made just for you!

As regards the Erlewine method: The "correct" way?!?!? He's just another guy. Yeah, he's got high visibility and books and videos and all, but he's just another opinion. I've been stringing gtrs just as long as he has (since the sixties), and I would never string a Kluson-equipped Fender that way. But then again, I'm not trying to bend a note up an octave either. Whatever works...

Gasp100
09-12-2009, 01:57 PM
Y'know after five pages, I am convinced locking tuners were made just for you!

As regards the Erlewine method: The "correct" way?!?!? He's just another guy. Yeah, he's got high visibility and books and videos and all, but he's just another opinion. I've been stringing gtrs just as long as he has (since the sixties), and I would never string a Kluson-equipped Fender that way. But then again, I'm not trying to bend a note up an octave either. Whatever works...

I see your point but... he's pretty well respected as a luthier, no? No offense but I gather he has just a tad more experience than some other people on the TGP I figure. I would rekon he has seen (and worked on) a larger number of guitars than many, many people on here -- maybe even more than you? But, I could be wrong.
Anyway, whatever works for you.

DavidH
09-12-2009, 01:59 PM
..yeah, but, every manufacturer i've ever seen sticks it down the hole, including fender. That's clearly the way they're intended to be used to any practical minded individual. IMHO of course, LOL.

Gasp100
09-12-2009, 02:11 PM
..yeah, but, every manufacturer i've ever seen sticks it down the hole, including fender. That's clearly the way they're intended to be used to any practical minded individual. IMHO of course, LOL.

Yes, just like all manufacturers string THRU the tailpiece on an LP and would never wrap around the tailpiece because that absolutely MUST be the correct way to do it for any practical minded individual.

BrentB6
09-12-2009, 02:18 PM
I see your point but... he's pretty well respected as a luthier, no? No offense but I gather he has just a tad more experience than some other people on the TGP I figure. I would rekon he has seen (and worked on) a larger number of guitars than many, many people on here -- maybe even more than you? But, I could be wrong.
Anyway, whatever works for you.

Leo Fender intended for the string to be put in the hole...... it is also the way Fender recommends to this day.

Leo trumps Dan as far as I am concerned.

teddy boy
09-12-2009, 02:24 PM
I dig vintage-style Fender tuners. nice and tidy + keep the guitar in-tune enough for me.

macatt
09-12-2009, 04:44 PM
One con about vintage tuners that no one mentioned:
Changing a string on the fly, on stage when you are in a hurry. I don't want to deal with cutters or pliers.
Just a quick change and let the long end hang out. Trim it later.

Locking tuners are the fastest.

S Mac

Shiny McShine
09-12-2009, 05:07 PM
Love the split tuners with the hole down the middle. I want them on everything. I've had sperzels and the others and don't like them any more now.

You will need a motorized winder to make them really easy to string. I've got it wired and I know the exact amount of string to leave on each one so that the string wraps just enough times to be almost at the base of the shaft. No need for graduated heights here!

bluesjuke
09-12-2009, 05:21 PM
Im sticking them in the hole.


Me too, as deep as they'llgo.


Odd how through the years many of us were so glad to see mechanical improvements come about only to turn around and return from whence we came.

I did as I found the old style hardware more musical, if you will, to my ears.



Grovers though I have never cared for.

Boris Bubbanov
09-12-2009, 06:53 PM
Wait, I thought Dan Erlewine says you're supposed to actually run the string THROUGH the split, then wrap underneath and twist up. Basically, you DON'T use the little hole within the tuner at all!!!
:Devil

Look.

The guy can't be right about everything.

He can do it his way. I'll do it mine.

The way I'm doing mine - well. it is probably the dead last thing I will change about the way I do guitars.

His way is simply an adaptation of the means used for non-vintage tuners, nothing more. He has to fool with all kinds of tuner and I don't. I don't need to change back and forth between techniques all day long, but he would. I can well imagine he's rationalized this and basically uses the same common trick on all non lockers.

You'll never see me with that problem.

Mike Duncan
09-12-2009, 06:57 PM
Mine stay in tune better than any PRS, Schaller, or Sperzels have ever!!

Brett Faust
09-12-2009, 09:05 PM
I have heard the vintage slot head tuners refered to as safety tuners for reasons stated above.

I like the graduated post Gotoh tuners from Allparts for 5 reasons.
1... the graduated post
2... the graduated slot in the top of the post keeps the unwound strings from slipping.
3.... the tone ,to my ear they help me get a more wide range sound rather than mid focused sound of most diecast tuners.
4...they are always the same size with the same mounting points, unlike some diecast tuners that change mounting tabs or pins every now and then.
5... the gear ratio is higher than most diecast tuners.

I do not dislike diecast tuners but the advanages of the vintage "Kluson" style are best for me most of the time.

Thats my 2 cents

jgyn
09-12-2009, 10:10 PM
I dig vintage-style Fender tuners. nice and tidy + keep the guitar in-tune enough for me.

+1.

I don't worry about string changing, as I always bring 2 guitars.

pitseleh
09-12-2009, 11:04 PM
I love slot-head tuners. They're easy to string up, they look nice and neat after you do, and there's no sharp ends to fret over (they call me the Pun Master). Plus they're generally really precise/stable for me.

I wish I could find them for Gibson-style guitars! I made a thread about it a while back, but got no replies. Oh well!

chrisgraff
09-12-2009, 11:25 PM
I always do the ninety-degree bend trick with slotted tuners. Down the hole, sharp bend out of the slot, etc.

Always had trouble on the hot days...changing strings with sweaty hands, etc. That high e would often just slip and slip.

Here's the fix:

The first wind goes around half of the post; ie not all the way around the post...shortcut through the slot. Then wind as usual.

The "half wind" makes all the difference! :cool:

Brett Faust
09-12-2009, 11:37 PM
I always do the ninety-degree bend trick with slotted tuners. Down the hole, sharp bend out of the slot, etc.

Always had trouble on the hot days...changing strings with sweaty hands, etc. That high e would often just slip and slip.

Here's the fix:

The first wind goes around half of the post; ie not all the way around the post...shortcut through the slot. Then wind as usual.

The "half wind" makes all the difference! :cool:

+1 that works for me too.

kmcmichael
09-13-2009, 07:44 AM
I have had a few vintage guitars years ago when I could afford them. I still have a 60 strat. The tuners are worn out there is tremendous slack in them. I seem to remember that they were all that way. I have never purchased a new set of these. I have some shallers that I put one a 330 30 years ago and they seem to be in great shape.

Shiny McShine
09-13-2009, 08:23 AM
Wait, I thought Dan Erlewine says you're supposed to actually run the string THROUGH the split, then wrap underneath and twist up. Basically, you DON'T use the little hole within the tuner at all!!!
:Devil

I prefer to follow Leo Fender's approach. It's safer, it works fine, it looks better and you don't crystallize the metal where you've bent the string over at 135+ degrees. I've never had a string unravel in all the years I've been playing.

Besides, it's the Fender way.

Long live the king!

johnh
09-13-2009, 08:28 AM
Just to add that I much prefer the vintage tuners. I bought a CP50's strat and have seriously thought about trying to swap out the locking tuners for good old vintage type ones.

DavidH
09-13-2009, 09:22 PM
Yes, just like all manufacturers string THRU the tailpiece on an LP and would never wrap around the tailpiece because that absolutely MUST be the correct way to do it for any practical minded individual.

Heehee, yeah, that's true though, top wrapping is silly too :YinYang

dead mike
09-13-2009, 10:58 PM
love them. i dont no what it is but my guitars with Kluson stay in tune the best. go figure, and they have the classic look which i prefer.

Reeltarded
09-14-2009, 08:32 AM
I love my RW, but I can't stand putting on new strings, these split tuners are so difficult compared to my other strat's modern tuners. Anyone else hate these split tuners?:boxer


They are the esiest to use. What is the problem? You pull two tuners up, cut the string, and cram it in the rabbit hole. No slipping, no problem.

If you leave too much string, any tuner rots.

Lighter machines are WAY better. They are the lighter machines.

:agree

Me too.

Unanimous!

Texas_Blues
09-14-2009, 08:41 AM
I already solved the problem two pages back. Thanks anyways ('ll delete this thread later on today).

Boris Bubbanov
09-14-2009, 09:23 AM
Don't delete the thread. A lot of other folks may have learned something useful.

pi22seven
09-14-2009, 09:50 AM
I love slot-head tuners. They're easy to string up, they look nice and neat after you do, and there's no sharp ends to fret over (they call me the Pun Master). Plus they're generally really precise/stable for me.

I wish I could find them for Gibson-style guitars! I made a thread about it a while back, but got no replies. Oh well!

Why don't they make them for Gibson style guitars?

If anybody knows of a 3 on a side slot tuner PLEASE let us know!!!:(

gkoelling
09-14-2009, 10:31 AM
Don't delete the thread. A lot of other folks may have learned something useful.

And those who have yet to read it may learn something, too.

clothwiring
09-14-2009, 01:13 PM
I vote for Kluson! I like putting the string end down the center. I don't have issues with 'em at all.

Jahn
09-14-2009, 01:22 PM
Here are the tuners on my 1946 Gibson J-45. Believe it or not, these are the tuners I have the LEAST problems with.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/jahn0603/Gibson%20J45/Backstocked.jpg

Heck, I just invested in some new tuners for my R8 because the ones on there from '97 are slipping, bah. RS Guitarworks to the rescue!

ImmortalSix
09-14-2009, 01:47 PM
I think they are a pain in the butt. I just put a new neck with slotted vintage tuners on my Strat, and they are awful.

Jerrod
09-14-2009, 02:06 PM
I think they are a pain in the butt. I just put a new neck with slotted vintage tuners on my Strat, and they are awful.


Believe me when I say that some of the most amazing music in history was made on equipment that's not as good as what you own right now.

I love irony.

Stringz
09-14-2009, 02:51 PM
While I like the look of vintage tuners, the fact is that much of the time tuners that are 25 or more years old aren't as precise as more modern ones and slip out of tune more easily. I do know some guys with some pretty tight vintage guitars that stay in tune pretty well but most of the older guitars I've handled needed a lot of help in that department. Whenever I change tuners I always keep the originals in case I sell the guitar one day and the buyer might want them. I have no use for them once the guitar is gone.

JamminJoe
09-14-2009, 03:12 PM
Can anyone think of a reason why Fender would not use the vintage tuners on the American Standards? Or at least a tuner which can be swapped out as is with the vintage tuner. All of their higher end and custom shop models use the vintage tuner. Even many of the MIM and MIJ models use the vintage tuner. As this thread indicates, most people prefer the vintage tuner. So why not the AmStd - the most affordable of the USA models? The biggest turnoff (to me at least) about the AmStd is it doesn't have the vintage tuner. My guess is that sales of the cheaper AmStd would skyrocket, and sales of the vintage reissues, hot rods, thin skins, and custom shops would plummet if this were to happen.

George Johnson
09-14-2009, 05:30 PM
The Klusons in question here are my favorite (for all the reasons stated).

BrentB6
09-14-2009, 05:43 PM
Can anyone think of a reason why Fender would not use the vintage tuners on the American Standards? Or at least a tuner which can be swapped out as is with the vintage tuner. All of their higher end and custom shop models use the vintage tuner. Even many of the MIM and MIJ models use the vintage tuner. As this thread indicates, most people prefer the vintage tuner. So why not the AmStd - the most affordable of the USA models? The biggest turnoff (to me at least) about the AmStd is it doesn't have the vintage tuner. My guess is that sales of the cheaper AmStd would skyrocket, and sales of the vintage reissues, hot rods, thin skins, and custom shops would plummet if this were to happen.


I agree with you on the AS having vintage tuners. Doubt that the AS having the vintage tuners would cause sales of the higher end line to plummet. The hot rods, thin skins custom shop.....have a lot more going for them than just the vintage tuners. Again...I do like the idea of the AS having vintage keys though.

atomicmassunit
09-14-2009, 07:31 PM
Vintage tuners are my favorite.

Boris Bubbanov
09-14-2009, 07:46 PM
Can anyone think of a reason why Fender would not use the vintage tuners on the American Standards? Or at least a tuner which can be swapped out as is with the vintage tuner. All of their higher end and custom shop models use the vintage tuner. Even many of the MIM and MIJ models use the vintage tuner. As this thread indicates, most people prefer the vintage tuner. So why not the AmStd - the most affordable of the USA models? The biggest turnoff (to me at least) about the AmStd is it doesn't have the vintage tuner. My guess is that sales of the cheaper AmStd would skyrocket, and sales of the vintage reissues, hot rods, thin skins, and custom shops would plummet if this were to happen.

Then they'd have to come to terms with the fact that the "modern" bridge is less and less popular among those who have a strong preference.

At least the American Series/Standard/Deluxes and Highway Ones can be easily put right. With this whole group of MIM Classic Reissue models from the "69" to the "72" they have an abominable tuner for which there's no readily available substitute. To me, that's worse.

JamminJoe
09-14-2009, 10:20 PM
I was just exaggerating about the sales predictions, but you're right - the American Standard and Deluxe models are supposed to be modern. It's hard to remember that this was their goal when almost every popular model has the vintage look, and even the AS model would have the same vintage look were it not for the tuners.

Chris Rice
09-15-2009, 05:48 AM
Split shafts, please.
I don't like locking tuners in general, modern tuners are good on some guitars (especially if you're using a Bigsby).

Kyle vs. Guitar
09-15-2009, 05:59 AM
I love vintage Fender kluson tuners! I wish EVERY guitar had these on them, they're so easy to deal with and you don't get your fingers cut on sharp string ends. They hold tuning great too if you use them right!

azimuth
09-15-2009, 10:57 AM
With a passion. I would have no qualms about replacing them on ANY vintage Fender I would (theoretically) buy.

Brett Valentine
09-22-2009, 09:54 PM
Nope. Don't like 'em, but won't change them on my '65-'68 ES335 (I'm not that crazy).

crzyfngers
09-22-2009, 09:56 PM
more kluson!! sperzels will do in a pinch.

Stu Blue
09-22-2009, 11:44 PM
Shopping round for another strat in the last two years I've twice pulled a string out of the tuner just bending notes... so-called locking tuners each time... never happened with split vintage ones in over 30 years. They're just so simple, safe and right....