Alvarez PF411 Professional Folk

[thesedaze]

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/4/3/8/595438.jpg

Alvarez PF411 Professional Folk Acoustic Guitar


Does anyone have experience with this model? It has solid rosewood back, solid spruce top...not sure about the rosewood sides being solid or laminate. Maple binding (on the body as well as the fretboard and headstock).

I have a much prized, now discontinued MF90, which is basically this model minus the maple binding on the fretboard & headstock, and I believe definite solid sides. It was also more expensive by a couple bills. I realize after this latest new wave of Chinese solidwood acoustics that the cost of production probably went down a bit, which would bring this new model (PF411) in the same category. Alvarez canceled their whole line of Masterworks Folk models and stuck them under the Professional series. With only seeing 1 photo, and reading the specs, it appears they are basically sister guitars...

I really enjoy the satin finish neck on my MF90...I hope this guy has the same, and not a poly gloss...otherwise to the sand paper it will go.

So why am I looking into this model? A bit of an emergency happened when I stupidly laid my guitar face down on the floor for but a minute to make the bed...Someone accidentally stepped onto what they thought was the comforter, but happened to have the poor guitar beneath...CRUNCH! Cracked through the back, and a bit of the lowest horizontal brace. DOH!

I have been told that it's fixable, and would be a fun project to take, but I also need an acoustic right away for performance. Since they no longer make the MF90, I wanted to see if Alvarez had a similar model that I would be comfortable with. I went to the site and saw this 'new' model.

There doesn't appear to be much information or photos of it on the web...As in NO live photos or USED models...Is it limited production?

I went ahead and bit the bullet on one of the only ones left @ Musicians Friend. I should get it either this weekend or early next week.

Anything I should be made aware of? I plan on using the Gotoh 510 Delta gold tuners w/ rounded amber knobs from my MF90. The MF90 actually used bone nut & saddle, but we'll see about this PF411...might need to upgrade that. I'll probably also stick the Yairi tortoiseshell pickguard instead of that black one...I'll be stoked if that maple binding goes all around the fretboard & headstock...the folk model Yairi that my friend sports has this in a real classy flame maple (probably the same strip I had Siegmund use on the inside as 'piping' for my 1x15 african mahogany cabinet).

What scares me is the fact that no one seems to have these in stock, and there are no photos of it 'in the real' so to speak. Is it just that new, or is it a test run? I might be stuck w/ another 'discontinued' model, but hopefully I won't be looking to replace it anytime soon...

Edit: This appears to be the follow up model to their PF90S, which looks like it was a laminate side version of the MF90, both being very short-lived models apparently. The MF90 was only around for 1 year, and was an amazing model! Much better than their MD90 I thought. I never tried the MD95, looks like it might be a little nicer.

[thesedaze]

Got it today! Didn't come w/ a pickguard, but that's quite alright as I have a Yairi tortoiseshell one on its way.

The fretboard is a little thinner than the MF90, which makes an open A a little tougher, but still workable. The maple binding around the body is a little nicer figured than the MF90. The maple binding around the fretboard and headstock is a plain maple, but a nice touch.

The body and side finish is darker than the MF90, but the neck is a bit lighter. One thing I enjoy, however, is the flatter, less glossy finish on the neck compared to the MF90, which was already good. The frets are a little small compared to the MF90...Reminds me of some of the old pawn shop parlors in that aspect...Nut is definitely plastic...saddle probably is too. Bridge pins are a cheap plastic. I bought bone nut and saddle blanks today, and will use the hard ebony bridge pins from my MF90. The tuners are pretty low ratio, and I will replace them with the Gotoh 510 Deltas w/ the amber buttons.

Nice herringbone stripe down the back center, as well as around the top/front. Good touch.

The neck needs a few turns on the truss rod straight out of the box, but that's expected.

A quick look inside shows the bracing is a littler different than the MF90. Only way I can explain it is that the cross bracing comes to a sharper point than the rounded off, lower profiled bracing of the MF90.

Hoping to get it setup and going before this weekend. I'll post some photos.

This still remains to be a bit of a mystery model, however. The 'inspector' aka Rob wrote RF411 instead of PF411 (which the inside tag, as well as the barcode tag correctly states). This seems like the hands on crew aren't even acquainted with this model quite yet. The serial puts it in the February 09 time period.

[mktitan]

I would like to see some pictures of the PF411. Also, can you tell me the nut width of this model? I am going back and forth b/w buying this new or getting a used MF90. I want a folk sized alvarez with a smaller nut (1 11/16) and also a low profile neck. From what I have read the MF90 would fit the bill, but its much easier for me to find a PF411.

Since you've had both, which did you prefer.

Thanks.

[thesedaze]

I definitely prefer the MF90 in the sense that you don't need to do much. It already comes w/ a bone nut and a tusq bridge saddle. The PF411 comes with cheap plastic. The string spacing is the same on the PF411, but the nut width is shorter. The frets of the PF411 are also the real thin wire frets like on cheap prewar model acoustics.

Having all solid wood is also nice.

Having said that, since I had an MF90 w/ bone nut and tusq saddle at my use, I just swapped those parts to the PF411...Same w/ the Gotoh 510 Delta tuners, which fit perfectly (screw hole and all) on the PF411...The MF90 required new screw holes.

Both will require a proper setup...so expect at least that much.

Some photos:

http://www.meestro.com/bodybottomneck.jpg
http://www.meestro.com/necktopbody.jpg
http://www.meestro.com/headstock.jpg
http://www.meestro.com/bodyside.jpg
http://www.meestro.com/sideneck.jpg
http://www.meestro.com/backherringbone.jpg

[mktitan]

Thanks for the quick post and the pictures. I bit the bullet and bought a PF411. I'm a little apprehensive about the frets now, but everything else seems to be what I'm looking for (except for the saddle/nut material). Thanks again.

[thesedaze]

Thanks for the quick post and the pictures. I bit the bullet and bought a PF411. I'm a little apprehensive about the frets now, but everything else seems to be what I'm looking for (except for the saddle/nut material). Thanks again.

It's a good axe, I've been happy! It took me about a week or 2 for my hands to get completely used to the smaller frets, but now they're broken in just fine.

[zombywoof]

It's a good axe, I've been happy! It took me about a week or 2 for my hands to get completely used to the smaller frets, but now they're broken in just fine.

Your hands or the frets?

[thesedaze]

Your hands or the frets?

My digits...Frets are still stiff as they should be ;)

[mktitan]

Got mine in today. I love it. Great tone right out of the box and plays awesome. I will get it set up and have the action lowered. I think its a short scale, which I didnt know going in. Neck is super smooth and easy to jump around. Thanks again for posting the pics and your opinions.

[dubbisco]

I purchased a PF 411 yesterday from an online dealer for $360.00 "new." It should be in Friday, so I am interested to see what it is all about. I am a little worried about the low price...Christmas/end of year sale?

I have a P90 that I got on sale in 2003 or so for $460 - and it is great. After I replaced the saddle with a custom bone one and the bridge pins with an ebony set- and had the neck adjusted - it plays better (better action and easier fingering) than my Martin J-40.

However, the J-40 sounds much warmer; it is a jumbo, so some of that may just be the depth of tone.

I am interested to hear your opinion about the guitar after making your modifications? The picture with the new tuners looked great, thank you for posting them.

I was planning on getting a bone saddle and bridge pins, but do you think a bone nut is essential?

There is VERY little info on this guitar, so I am basing my purchase solely on my previous experience with Alvarez. I will update after I get my guitar in a couple of days regarding my "out of the box" reaction and experience.

Does anyone know anything else about the guitar? Why so little info and images available, etc?

[thesedaze]

After talking with both the old Alvarez US Distributors, St Louis Music (who still does repairs and replacement parts), as well as the new ones, and a MF rep, I got the impression that I got one from the first batch. Perhaps the first model? None of the stores got them in yet...Amazon had a couple, and MF had a couple.

A lot of there folk models seem to do short runs, so they might be playing it safe, who knows...

After the mods it's nice...not as easy to play as the MF90...the fretboard is smaller, but string spacing is the same. Bone nut is most definitely necessary. The plastic Alvarez uses for their nut is of the Barbie toy variety that you can nearly bend in half...aka SOFT. If you don't have an existing nut or saddle to use, I'd recommend perhaps trying to call up Tom Kruszka at St Louis Guitar and see if he has any preslotted bone nuts and/or bone/tusq saddles that would fit this guitar from the Alvarez line. It'll take a lot of hassle out of trying to slot/fit your own.

[mktitan]

When I took mine in to get set up I realized that the top had a small crack that I hadnt noticed. I returned it to wwbw w/o incident and they sent me a new one. You may want to check out the prices at djwholesale.com (and not just for this alvarez, but for any of them). Not that I would buy from them as they are a chinese wholesaler, but wwbw did beat their price...which as you will see is already very, very low.

[dubbisco]

Question for thedaze:

What type of bridge pins did you replace the factory ones with? I am trying to order some, but I am not sure about the size. Any info would be a huge help.

Got mine last Friday..

First Impressions:

The good:

1) Great looking inlays and head stock. Even better than my 2003 Pd90.

2) The binding around the body and headstock is a nice touch, and gives it a great look. I like the new bridge, and overall the instrument looks very high quality.

3) I really like the smaller size. After playing a jumbo, this is a nice and easier one the hand stretching.

4) I love the neck on this guitar. My older one did not have the smooth neck, so this was a very pleasant surprize.

The bad:

1) As thedaze mentioned, this guitar is not very playable out of the box. In fact, it is just plain bad sounding, but it is obvious that it can be a great guitar with some mods.

2) Sustain, there is none

2) The bridge pins look like they were made by by a 5 year old...in the dark. They are cheap and look horrible.

3) The saddle - looks like the bridge pins.

4) The nut, is a joke. Not only is it discolored, but like thedaze mentioned, it is soft.

5) --Not really that bad, but mine came with a black pick guard, and I would much rather have put on a tortise one like thedaze did. If you can get one with out a pick guard it is a good idea if that kind of thing matters to you.

Solutions: I am ordering vintage bone nut, saddle and bridge pins from Bob Colosi. I had my previous Alvarez fitted with generic bone saddle and bridge pins, and the sustain is great on it. I am going to try a new nut on this one as well since it seems like it needs it.

Overall: The guitar is great looking and has a lot of potential. It you are willing to do some mods I think it is a good purchase for the price.

[thesedaze]

I believe I either got them from my MF90, or they were from another Alvarez/Yairi that a friend has...they are made of true ebony, so they are nice and hard.