How to fix neck up bow?

[tildeslash]

I have a neck that bows up (towards strings) a little so I tried to loosen the truss rod and the bow is not coming down.
If I tighten the bow goes up and if I loosen it it goes back down to original bow and does not straighten.
The truss rod keeps turning and I cannot put any relief on this neck.

The truss rod tightens with normal resistance and loosen with normal resistance upto the point of the original bow but beyond that it freely moves.

Will a refret fix this or this neck is ****ed?

[jcoloccia]

I have a neck that bows up (towards strings) a little so I tried to loosen the truss rod and the bow is not coming down.
If I tighten the bow goes up and if I loosen it it goes back down to original bow and does not straighten.
The truss rod keeps turning and I cannot put any relief on this neck.

The truss rod tightens with normal resistance and loosen with normal resistance upto the point of the original bow but beyond that it freely moves.

Will a refret fix this or this neck is ****ed?

The truss rod will straighten the neck when tightened. Loosening the truss rod will allow the neck to bend forward under the tension of the strings. Are you saying your truss rod works backwards? What guitar do you have? Is it a dual action truss rod?

Relief would be having the neck bent up towards the frets. It sounds like you have too much relief already. If you lay the guitar on it's back, does the neck bend up towards the sky or down towards the ground?

[Rhomco]

a double action trussrod in there. You may have to go past center to get what you want. This is a certified "wild ass guess".

[GM Reszel]

I'm confused on what you're describing because you say it 'bows up towards strings' but I believe by your nomenclature you understand how a rod works and you're saying the neck won't get relief. I'm going to assume then that you're describing the symptoms of a convex or backbow neck. You loosen the truss nut all the way and the backbow is still there and you have all kinds of buzzing on the low frets correct?

If so here's how I would NOT fix it and that is to try the heat press thing where you heat it up, clamp it and try to retrain the wood to go the other way. This may be successful but usually the neck fibers are stubborn to go right back at some point down the road. Some necks have taken years to slowly turn wrong and it doesn't always work to think you can heat it a bit and expect it to stay.

Depending on the fb there's a couple fixes I've used.

All in one maple neck and fretboard you have to pull the frets and replane the neck to be straight and even a slight amount of relief. Then a proper refret and depending on how the neck behaves now I might level the frets in a neck stress jig.

Rosewood or any applied fb you usually won't have enough board to plane out the convex so you have to pull the whole board, plane the neck straight and put the board back on and blah and blah (insert the yadda of your choice).

There are many experts here with more experience and perhaps different thoughts than me but these are some solutions that have worked for me.

Pretty much everytime I've done these fixes they have been bolt ons and the customer loved the neck enough that he wanted to keep it.

[Jan Folkson]

I'm also assuming that you can't get any more relief.

I had a les paul with this problem and I had luck loosening the rod, putting a set of 13's on and high tuning it while placing a desiccant box in the case. I left the guitar to sit for a few months and it was fine from that point forward.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41vpuZy%2BkaL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

[Keyser Soze]

What kind of guitar are we dealing with?

GM Rezel has about covered the proper long term solution. Unfortunately unless the guitar is worth serious money the solution may cost more than the guitar is worth. If it is a bolt neck guitar your best option may be a new neck.

I assume you've already tried this, but is not then loosen the trussrod, string the guitar to concert pitch and leave it alone for a week (do not hang the guitar by the neck, you want no tension on the neck other than the strings.) If you are lucky you may see some improvement.

[GM Reszel]

I should point out that the solutions I mention above are for necks that have settled bad. The methods mentioned by others by restinging heavy, etc are good for those necks that are on the fringe, ie they may be newer and/or are touchy to weather and humidity. The things I mentioned are for problems that are set in and as I said the customer wants to keep the neck.

[EADGBE]

I'm going to suggest putting heavier strings on it (like someone else has said). Leave the truss rod loose. Sometimes it takes a while for the neck to flex back to the the way it should. I don't think it hurts to play it like this. Just keep it tuned as usual. You may have to leave it like this for a month or longer. Aside from this there is the heat method or re-planing as someone else has suggested. But that's something I'd leave to a pro.

[tildeslash]

Tele partscaster built in the early 80's.
It's a one piece maple neck with skunk stripe and the truss rod adjust at the headstock. The the neck is bowing towards the strings and not away from it.

If I turn the trussrod clockwise the neck bows towards the strings.
If I turn counter clockwise all the way the backbow is still there and at that point the truss rod moves very freely without any resistance.

I hope this clears up any misinformation I provided.

[NunleyCustom]

About everything's been covered in the pevious responses. Since it's a one piece maple the least expensive route is to try heavier strings and hope the increased tension will pull the neck forward where you need it. It may go right back when you switch to lighter strings, but it doesnt cost much to try it. Pulling the frets, doing a resurface of the board and a re-fret is the next option. You have to be really attached to a neck to go to that trouble and cost when you can replace it for a lot less money. Hope that's of some help.

[GtrDr]

Tele partscaster built in the early 80's.
It's a one piece maple neck with skunk stripe and the truss rod adjust at the headstock. The the neck is bowing towards the strings and not away from it.

If I turn the trussrod clockwise the neck bows towards the strings.
If I turn counter clockwise all the way the backbow is still there and at that point the truss rod moves very freely without any resistance.

I hope this clears up any misinformation I provided.

Most of the fender replacement necks had single action truss rods. It's working properly, but the neck is not cooperating. Depending on how far it's back bent, it can be as simple as putting a shim in the neck & raising the strings. Or removing the frets, leveling the fretboard & re fretting.

[jcoloccia]

Tightening the rod is supposed to straighten the neck, so it sounds like the rod is working backwards (string tension bows the neck towards the strings, tightening bows away from the strings). That's because the rod is routed so it sits below center on the neck. As you tighten, it "pulls" on the back of the neck, bending the neck away from the strings. It's very simple and there's not a whole lot that can go wrong here. I'd have a local tech look at it. Something's not right.

[mc5nrg]

You have a back bow- loosening the rod (counterclockwise) and using a heavier gauge of strings is about the best you can do without invoving someone with greater technical skills and more complicated or expensive possible remedies. Though consulting a tech might be a good idea.

[MCK]

How to Make Your Electric Guitar Play Great (http://www.amazon.com/Electric-Guitar-Great-Softcover-Player/dp/0879306017/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1254723308&sr=8-1)

Do yourself a favor and order a copy of this excellent book by Dan Erlewine. Not only will it help with the issue now but it will help you master most setup / tuning needs you will have in the long run.

[Joe Kerr]

loosen the rod and then while guitar is strung up
hold the neck at first fret behind the neck
holding the body in your lap or against the floor
gently push the center of the neck about the 7th fret..
if the neck is a baseball bat sized neck you can
give it a shove you will hear a creaking noise.

Ive adjusted them before this way its scary
and it does creak but if the neck is good and thick
and a real plank your not going to hurt it.

give it a good push at the 7th fret pushing center of neck
and away from the direction of the bow.
Dont hold it at headstock hold it at first fret and grip that baby
tight.

Shove it like you would if you were trying to crack your back...
one or two quick shoves and it should creak if the rod is loose.

Then tighten the rod again but remember not to much
you can break the rod over tightening them then its
a problem and a half to fix.


you might only need to turn the rod an 1/8th or
1/4 turn and no more than that after you do the chiropracter
set.

I learned this in a well known shop in Austin texas
in about 1981 ..

They did all of Ejs work and Srvs.
Jr brown and well everyone that was in the know
went to that shop.

It is scary to watch but it sets the neck back.
If done properly you will hear a small Creak.
Id loosen the string tension as well.

Thats how they did them unless they were so bad
the neck had warped to a back bow.
That could be from over turning the rod too and leaving it
set there so long the neck just bows..

That is what the rod is supposed to do bow up on fenders.
The string tension compensates that....

make sure the body is secure and you dont send it flying
and a gently push dead center of the neck with truss loosened
and strings loosened.

If you have ever seen a luthier or builder
sight down a neck from headstock to heel
with strings in tension you can sight one
and see if the neck is way back bowed
while under tension.

Do the back cracking chiropracter trick
GENTLY SHOVE IT BACK INTO PLACE
TILL YOU HEAR THE CREAK.

Then readjust the rod slightly...
but you wont need to go back where it was
this might take some time as you might
have to take it on and off a few times....
adjusting the rod back.

Do not grab the top of the headstock and try this
but grab behind the first fret or so.
making sure the body is against the carpet on floor or something...
I watched this done many many times and it works...

If the bow is so bad you cant get it to adjust
your going to have to use heat and weight to get that out.

Thats another story there and if thats the case
you might be locating another neck.
I saw a real real bad case of this on one acoustic neck
and they used a fretboard iron and weight to push it back
in place. also steam.

That worked but if that is the case and your
spine adjustment does not work and be gentle
when shoving it back some, take it to a trained eye
and someone that has done this along time.

That is where I learned this from
at a shop that knew what they were doing.

They did this when the weather changed usually
and we got hot or cold over night.

you can always add the bow back in with the rod
but you dont need to crank that rod to the right
very far at all slow small turns and not even 1/16th
of a turn at that do not crank it hard till it becomes so tight
you cant adjust it back because you can snap one doing that.

Let me know how this turns out for you
and if it helps.

I might get my second beer here for knowing what I am doing.
Where are you located as well if needed you can send it to me
and ill do it.

muha ha ha ha
Im not scared anymore I know it works.

I used to watch them crack vintage strats out this way
all the time.
lol


hope this helps you I know it works I watched them do it for years
and its scary but it works.

Think of it as acting like your going to shoot an arrow
that type of motion just be gentle but firm on the adjustment
and dont push too far or too hard you wont need too
with the strings loose and rod loose.

peace and happy frets
you can pm me and Ill walk you through it.

I have always done this since I saw it done
and it works...

unless the neck has warped so bad its beyond adjustment
sometimes people over adjust them at the rod and they do this.


let me know if it works ok ?

[EADGBE]

Isn't there a fine line between creaking and cracking?

[Keyser Soze]

If its a fine line, then its a crack.

Breaks make much bigger lines.

[Joe Kerr]

Isn't there a fine line between creaking and cracking?

I have never broken a neck before or caused a crack.
I have fixed several of them including my own this way
since 81..

I watched how its done.
It paid off for me as I do all my own work now
and I have built them from scratch as well.

I dont take my bodies or necks out of a cnc either
I make them the same way the factory did in the 50s.

I need a chiropractor for real though tonight.
my spine has a back bow.
lol

I was there when SRV walked in with his busted at the headstock
that was #1 boys and gals...


The master put his hand on Stevies shoulder and with a stern face said
YOU ****ED IT UP SON.

I laughed so loud stevie started laughing.
He had tears steaming down his face it was his favorite guitar.
I could not help but laughing at that..

He said what happened and Srv said Jimmy told me I could get more
sustain if I held the headstock against the wall while I was playing..
It snapped the headstock off like a pencil....
It was just hanging there with the strings still on it.....

The master had to pry literally pry it out of his hands.
They fixed that and I was also there before he came to get it back fixed.

They even put the ciggy burn exactly in the same place...
I was hooked on repairing and building guitars right on the spot...

Ive done it since then...

Stevie did start laughing I said do not worry if these guys cant fix it
no body can.

They did. I had my nose on it and so close I had to squint to see
the repair they did a maple sandwich on the headstock and
you could not even see the break from the side ...

I said I know what I want to do from now on out.

[Zero]

You could try standing on the middle of the neck while it's supported off the ground on either end. I had heard about this but thought it crazy. I have a backbowed neck that I planed straight but now with strings on it, when I engage the truss rod it seems to stick. Even when backing the rod nut off (CCW). I took the neck off and stood on it like I said, and it went back to normal. I had every intention of breaking it by the way, I was so pissed off. It flexed but didn't break. I weigh 130 lbs though.

[Bob V]

I think we're talking at cross purposes when saying the neck "bows towards the strings." Which part is doing the "bowing" - the middle or the ends? BTW a cello or violin bow, when tensioned, is an example of back-bow since the bow is convex when viewed by the hair. I envision "relief" as being where the fretboard is concave, the nut and heel are going up and the middle of the neck is staying down, where there's more room between the string and the middle of the neck around the 7th fret or so. As you tighten the trussrod the relief lessens as the neck straightens, and if you go too far the neck goes into "back bow" and the fretboard becomes convex. So if we stay with "relief" and "back bow" terms we might get somewhere.

The smart thing the OP did was to make sure his trussrod was working even if there's a limit to what it can do. Sometimes in the life of a guitar some dope thinks the trussrod is a way to lower the action and cranks it down way too far. The neck sits like that long enough and the backbow can take a set. Even worse, on slanted-headstock guitars like Gibsons, the half-moon washer can jam against the trussrod, damaging the threads or the rod and freezing everything so it can't be loosened anymore. You can suspect this if you loosen the nut completely and nothing happens at all.

The thread's kind of resurrected, so I hope the OP has it sorted by now. But there's one other thing to try before using brute force (dunno about the "creak" part, but it's okay to give a neck a little persuasion of the relief is really out of whack). On an American Standard Strat or Tele (not a Made in Mexico or Highway One) there's a "biflex" trussrod where you can back off the trussrod nut and if you keep turning it starts to get tight again and it will start to correct for backbow. This works because there's a metal plate, kind of like a half-moon washer but it's actually rectangular, above the trussrod nut but buried under the string nut. Your allen wrench passes through the walnut plug, thorugh this gate or plate, and then engages the trussrod nut where it can be brought back out until it bears against this plate. This is a variation on the theme of a two-way trussrod.