View Full Version : Watch Larry Coryell out dual Mclaughlin and Benson!
Who would have thought it was possible??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO8oexQ4N_s&feature=related
KILLER playing by Larry!
rwe333
10-09-2009, 11:33 AM
"Who would have thought it was possible??"
Anyone fortunate enough to catch Larry on an "on" night when he feels like playing (not always, it seems).
Thanks for the clip - they all sound great.
stratzrus
10-09-2009, 12:43 PM
I don't know about "out dueling".
McLaughlin seemed to just be doing his acoustic noodling thing a la "The trio", and was not really in contention no matter what Coryell played, same with Stanley Clarke...just doing his thing and not really serving the song.
While not completely ignoring the melody, Coryell only paid it passing "lip service" for lack of a better term, and the dissonance didn't really fit the piece. I actually liked what Benson played best, given the composition they were playing.
But with that said, I'm a big Coryell fan, and McLaughlin is one of my favorites of all time. It just think that particular style of melodic big band Jazz is Benson's forte more than the two others and it showed.
I don't know about "out dueling".
McLaughlin seemed to just be doing his acoustic noodling thing a la "The trio", and was not really in contention no matter what Coryell played, same with Stanley Clarke...just doing his thing and not really serving the song.
While not completely ignoring the melody, Coryell only paid it passing "lip service" for lack of a better term, and the dissonance didn't really fit the piece. I actually liked what Benson played best, given the piece they were playing.
But with that said, I'm a big Coryell fan, and McLaughlin is one of my favorites of all time. It just think that particular style of melodic big band Jazz is Benson's forte more than the two others.
All in fun! Benson was more than holding back a little. ;) I just really dug Larry on this, and he pushed and was not afraid to really go for it. VERY cool! The little simple melodies on the flat 5 sub always sound cool.
Johnny Mac does the same thing in every song and solo regardless, so you knew what you were going to get before you got it. :p
stratzrus
10-09-2009, 01:01 PM
All in fun! Benson was more than holding back a little. ;) I just really dug Larry on this, and he pushed and was not afraid to really go for it. VERY cool! The little simple melodies on the flat 5 sub always sound cool.
Johnny Mac does the same thing in every song and solo regardless, so you knew what you were going to get before you got it. :pGood fun indeed!
Yes Mclaughlin often does that thing, but if that's all he did it would be boring as hell. Check out Jazz Jungle on "The Promise". That the John McLaughlin I know and love. To me, that's taking up where Miles left off, and his style fits well with that kind of music. I love it at the end when after playing for 13 minutes he says, "Why'd you stop there?!! I was just getting my second wind..."
Good fun indeed!
Yes Mclaughlin often does that thing, but if that's all he did it would be boring as hell. Check out Jazz Jungle on "The Promise". That the John McLaughlin I know and love. To me, that's taking up where Miles left off, and his style fits well with that kind of music.
Agree! JM plays some great stuff. I dig him a lot more when he slows down and plays more melodically in a less jazzy setting.
KRosser
10-09-2009, 01:11 PM
Larry was my first jazz guitar teacher. No surprises here.
Dr Git
10-09-2009, 01:13 PM
That was a great diddi that brought back a great deal of fusion pioneers....Great, although I think its George's gig too, as far as dueling goes...Larry was surprising though
Larry was my first jazz guitar teacher. No surprises here.
Very cool. Seems like a heck of a nice guy as well. I love in his instructional where he says.."When I was first getting started in jazz, playing over the chord changes was the most difficult thing.................STILL IS!!!!" LOL!!
Lance
10-09-2009, 02:10 PM
Good fun indeed!
Yes Mclaughlin often does that thing, but if that's all he did it would be boring as hell. Check out Jazz Jungle on "The Promise". That the John McLaughlin I know and love. To me, that's taking up where Miles left off, and his style fits well with that kind of music. I love it at the end when after playing for 13 minutes he says, "Why'd you stop there?!! I was just getting my second wind..."
Yes. Definitely check out Jazz Jungle on The Promise! Everybody playing is fantastic. Some great playing by Jeff Beck too! I mean check out the personnel who played on this...
Personnel: John McLaughlin- guitar; Jeff Beck, Michael Brecker, Paco De Lucia, Sting, David Sanborn, Trilok Gurtu, Zakir Hussain, Jim Beard, Joey De Francesco, Al Di Meola, Don Alias, Vinnie Colaiuta, Nishat Khan, Tony Hymas, Pino Palladino, Marc Mondesir, James Genus, Philippe Loli and Yan Maresz.
How it could it possibly not be super, duper!!!?
fender753
10-09-2009, 02:13 PM
As I'm reading this im listening to Larry's son Murali, what a musical family! Great clip Tag thanks for sharing!
KRosser
10-09-2009, 02:21 PM
Very cool. Seems like a heck of a nice guy as well. I love in his instructional where he says.."When I was first getting started in jazz, playing over the chord changes was the most difficult thing.................STILL IS!!!!" LOL!!
Larry was and is a great guy. I'm very, very grateful on a number of levels for what he gave me.
I gotta say, though - I really think that clip was dismal. When the jazz press starts wringing their hands over why jazz sales and attendance are slipping, and stuff like this is out there representing...wow.
It reminds me of a time when I went to see a "Blue Note All-Stars" show here in L.A. many years ago, with Art Blakey, Horace Silver, Freddie Hubbard, Bobby Hutcherson, Jimmy Heath, Jackie McLean, Al McKibbon, on and on. I was so excited because I love that old classic Blue Note stuff.
They played two tunes for the entire show - a medium-up blues and a fast rhythm changes - which lasted about and hour and a half and there was a really long introduction of each player in the middle. There were about a dozen people onstage and every one of them took a long solo on each 'tune'. About three choruses into each one it completely ceased being about interplay or improvisation or anything that I loved about those guys. It was just one relentless virtuoso throwdown after another.
I couldn't help but think to myself, "oh, yeah...that's why everybody hates jazz"
Larry was and is a great guy. I'm very, very grateful on a number of levels for what he gave me.
I gotta say, though - I really think that clip was dismal. When the jazz press starts wringing their hands over why jazz sales and attendance are slipping, and stuff like this is out there representing...wow.
It reminds me of a time when I went to see a "Blue Note All-Stars" show here in L.A. many years ago, with Art Blakey, Horace Silver, Freddie Hubbard, Bobby Hutcherson, Jimmy Heath, Jackie McLean, Al McKibbon, on and on. I was so excited because I love that old classic Blue Note stuff.
They played two tunes for the entire show - a medium-up blues and a fast rhythm changes - which lasted about and hour and a half and there was a really long introduction of each player in the middle. There were about a dozen people onstage and every one of them took a long solo on each 'tune'. About three choruses into each one it completely ceased being about interplay or improvisation or anything that I loved about those guys. It was just one relentless virtuoso throwdown after another.
I couldn't help but think to myself, "oh, yeah...that's why everybody hates jazz"
Not me! I would have LOVED that show, and thats PART of what I love about jazz!!! :dude To hear those monster vocabularies and the complete control they have of it is something that just blows me away. Of course like any show, if you were expecting something different, or were not in the mood for that, it could be down right boring. I went to a show the other night, and it was three guys who were really playing nice together, and really interacting well. However, I felt like listening to some one GO for it, so it bored me to tears in a short while.
GovernorSilver
10-09-2009, 03:36 PM
When I saw Eleventh House open for RTF last year, I actually preferred the playing of LC's son, but that's my taste.
I thought each of three had something good to offer to that tune, but enjoyed Benson's playing the most.
My favorite McLaughlin slow-jam - too bad he doesn't really play like this anymore:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgonZUPqImg
Strat335
10-09-2009, 04:29 PM
Wow, thanks so much for posting that, I had forgotten that song, and I used to listen to it over and over and over...in a different lifetime. lol
When I saw Eleventh House open for RTF last year, I actually preferred the playing of LC's son, but that's my taste.
I thought each of three had something good to offer to that tune, but enjoyed Benson's playing the most.
My favorite McLaughlin slow-jam - too bad he doesn't really play like this anymore:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgonZUPqImg
Sub City
10-09-2009, 05:51 PM
Playing that fast on an acoustic is like, impossible! I didn't care for the new age synthesizer keyboard sound by Duke; it ruined an otherwise fine guitar performance by the masters!
HammyD
10-09-2009, 06:06 PM
Check out Coryell's playing on Herbie Mann's "Memphis Underground" especially "Hold On, I'm Commin'." Very tasty stuff.
KRosser
10-09-2009, 06:44 PM
Not me! I would have LOVED that show, and thats PART of what I love about jazz!!! :dude To hear those monster vocabularies and the complete control they have of it is something that just blows me away. Of course like any show, if you were expecting something different, or were not in the mood for that, it could be down right boring. I went to a show the other night, and it was three guys who were really playing nice together, and really interacting well. However, I felt like listening to some one GO for it, so it bored me to tears in a short while.
Well, I'll tell you exactly what disappointed me about it - the fact that no thought or preparation went into pacing a show. I mean, one blues and one rhythm changes, for an hour and a half? All those gorgeous Horace Silver tunes they could have done, that everyone probably knew? No streamlining the soloing to two or three per tune so that you could get a little more variety in there? No changing up the arrnagements, even if done on the fly, like a nice unaccompanied intro or something. It was so obviously phoned in. Freddie Hubbard was actually yawning and checking his watch the whole time. I've seen all those guys with their own bands and loved it but that was a rip-off.
Well, I'll tell you exactly what disappointed me about it - the fact that no thought or preparation went into pacing a show. I mean, one blues and one rhythm changes, for an hour and a half? All those gorgeous Horace Silver tunes they could have done, that everyone probably knew? No streamlining the soloing to two or three per tune so that you could get a little more variety in there? No changing up the arrnagements, even if done on the fly, like a nice unaccompanied intro or something. It was so obviously phoned in. Freddie Hubbard was actually yawning and checking his watch the whole time. I've seen all those guys with their own bands and loved it but that was a rip-off.
Fine. So you saw a bad show. However, in your first post look what you said.
"I really think that clip was dismal. When the jazz press starts wringing their hands over why jazz sales and attendance are slipping, and stuff like this is out there representing...wow.
It reminds me of a time when I went to see a "Blue Note All-Stars" show here in L.A. many years ago, with Art Blakey, Horace Silver, Freddie Hubbard, Bobby Hutcherson, Jimmy Heath, Jackie McLean, Al McKibbon, on and on. It was just one relentless virtuoso throwdown after another.
I couldn't help but think to myself, "oh, yeah...that's why everybody hates jazz"
In that post you are putting down all of jazz because of one show and a few clips that YOU do not like. Kind of silly I think. :)
KRosser
10-10-2009, 09:00 AM
Fine. So you saw a bad show. However, in your first post look what you said.
"I really think that clip was dismal. When the jazz press starts wringing their hands over why jazz sales and attendance are slipping, and stuff like this is out there representing...wow.
It reminds me of a time when I went to see a "Blue Note All-Stars" show here in L.A. many years ago, with Art Blakey, Horace Silver, Freddie Hubbard, Bobby Hutcherson, Jimmy Heath, Jackie McLean, Al McKibbon, on and on. It was just one relentless virtuoso throwdown after another.
I couldn't help but think to myself, "oh, yeah...that's why everybody hates jazz"
In that post you are putting down all of jazz because of one show and a few clips that YOU do not like. Kind of silly I think. :)
That's not what I said at all.
I said when stuff like this goes on at these big 'jazz festivals', which is often the largest public interface jazz has to the otherwise non-jazzophile, it doesn't surprise me they avoid it for the rest of the year.
If my own opinion of jazz were entirely formed by what I've seen at festivals, I'd hate it too.
That's not what I said at all.
I said when stuff like this goes on at these big 'jazz festivals', which is often the largest public interface jazz has to the otherwise non-jazzophile, it doesn't surprise me they avoid it for the rest of the year.
If my own opinion of jazz were entirely formed by what I've seen at festivals, I'd hate it too.
OK. Thanks for the clarification. :beer
I did not take it that way at all.
Blanket Jackson
10-10-2009, 09:16 AM
All 3 smoke me on a good day. They are three of my heroes, and pillars of my continued learning.
splatt
10-10-2009, 09:25 AM
If my own opinion of jazz were entirely formed by what I've seen at festivals, I'd hate it too.
if my own opinion of jazz were entirely formed by what i've experienced onstage at those festivals,
i'd hate it, too.
can you say, "NorthSea Jazz Festival"?
or, "Special Festival Project"?
the concept & actual reality of these spectacles begins @ "nauseating", for me.
Yes. Definitely check out Jazz Jungle on The Promise! Everybody playing is fantastic. Some great playing by Jeff Beck too! I mean check out the personnel who played on this...
Personnel: John McLaughlin- guitar; Jeff Beck, Michael Brecker, Paco De Lucia, Sting, David Sanborn, Trilok Gurtu, Zakir Hussain, Jim Beard, Joey De Francesco, Al Di Meola, Don Alias, Vinnie Colaiuta, Nishat Khan, Tony Hymas, Pino Palladino, Marc Mondesir, James Genus, Philippe Loli and Yan Maresz.
How it could it possibly not be super, duper!!!?
i can surely imagine how i might not perceive such an event as being musically "super-duper";
i get a bad headache even thinking about it, frankly.
still, some folks find these events exciting; doesn't mean that i do, though.
i love coryell, especially his output from the '70's.
he could never find a way to live that greatness down, imo.
moving, iconic & groundbreaking playing & concepts.
dt / spltrcl
KRosser
10-10-2009, 11:40 AM
i love coryell, especially his output from the '70's.
he could never find a way to live that greatness down, imo.
moving, iconic & groundbreaking playing & concepts.
Absolutely, no question about it...I still think his importance to contemporary music is vastly underappreciated.
For me it starts with those 60's Gary Burton Quintet records - Duster, Lofty Fake Anagram, etc. Just mind-blowing stuff. Out of curiosity I picked up a more recent trio recording of his (Tricycles) and it was all still there, for me.
And Larry showed me some personal kindnesses many years ago, the importance and generosity of which I appreciate more deeply as time passes, and thankfully I had the opportunity to tell him so somewhat recently.
Ed DeGenaro
10-10-2009, 12:41 PM
"Who would have thought it was possible??"
Anyone fortunate enough to catch Larry on an "on" night when he feels like playing (not always, it seems).
Thanks for the clip - they all sound great.
Indeed, I spent some time with Larry a few years back and when he's in the mood he's farken unbelievable.
teleharmonium
10-10-2009, 03:23 PM
I think it's a pretty solid truism that "all star" and "supergroup" configurations tend to suck, especially one nighters or other situations where there is little or no preparation. I've heard some exceptions, but mostly that impression has been reinforced.
For me it starts with those 60's Gary Burton Quintet records - Duster, Lofty Fake Anagram, etc. Just mind-blowing stuff.
I love those, especially "A Genuine Tong Funeral" which has the great drummer Marc Levin playing under a pseudonym among other interesting musicians, and also the Jazz Composers Orchestra double set on JCOA with Cecil Taylor. I haven't heard Larry's earlier solo stuff in years, but I had some of those in my formative years and dug them ("Offering" being one of them).
I saw him play acoustic in the late 80s, it was a good show, at one point a clock tower near the building started sounding the hour while he was playing and he quickly started joining in with it playing only harmonics.
ToneGurus
10-10-2009, 03:53 PM
i love coryell, especially his output from the '70's.
he could never find a way to live that greatness down, imo.
moving, iconic & groundbreaking playing & concepts.
dt / spltrclThat's my frame of reference, as I told him a few years ago. I brought all my vinyl as evidence. It was like a museum exhibit for the people in attendance, LOL! He had me show him all of his GP exercises I learned in the 70's. I remembered them too!
http://www.tonegurus.com/larrymikeweb.jpg
Mike
billconnorsfan
10-11-2009, 03:10 AM
My favorite McLaughlin slow-jam - too bad he doesn't really play like this anymore:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgonZUPqImg
Johnny Mac recorded "Unknown Dissident" on his "Live in Belgrade" DVD with his group, JmL and the 4th Dimension, out May of last year.
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B001REZMF6.jpg
ivers
10-11-2009, 08:49 AM
If my own opinion of jazz were entirely formed by what I've seen at festivals, I'd hate it too.
Yeah, if people who aren't really jazz listeners ask me to recommend jazz for them, I like to throw them something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SspgwFEBos
This is music that can be chilled out to, or grooved along to, but it also has a bit of the bite to it that often is in good jazz, in terms of tension and such.
A really nice example of cool stuff from the 70's that evolved out of Miles and/or Coltrane, and for some reason became obscure.
Regarding the first video, I didn't get much from it musically, and I prefer Coryell's playing from the 60's, Duster being my favorite.
rwe333
10-11-2009, 10:16 AM
If my own opinion of jazz were entirely formed by what I've seen at festivals, I'd hate it too.
Though, of course, it depends on the festival...
For sure, the "All-Star" format is often a recipe for mediocrity, but many festivals do it right and book a wide-range of improvising styles from retro and most popular to free and world-music informed.
There are also few "All Star" projects that do push the envelope and shun the 'featured soloist/static rhythm section/obvious material' aesthetic. I think of the likes of the SF Jazz Collective, the Hancock/Shorter/Holland/Blade tour a few years back, etc.
But... you know this...
strat a various
10-11-2009, 12:24 PM
Well, I'll tell you exactly what disappointed me about it - the fact that no thought or preparation went into pacing a show. I mean, one blues and one rhythm changes, for an hour and a half? All those gorgeous Horace Silver tunes they could have done, that everyone probably knew? No streamlining the soloing to two or three per tune so that you could get a little more variety in there? No changing up the arrnagements, even if done on the fly, like a nice unaccompanied intro or something. It was so obviously phoned in. Freddie Hubbard was actually yawning and checking his watch the whole time. I've seen all those guys with their own bands and loved it but that was a rip-off.
I've done shows like that and you're right, very little preparation is involved. Most of the organizational effort goes into booking players and travel/hotel arrangements. The end results resemble informal afterhours jam sessions which generally cater to musicians and hard core fans.
I'll say this: if you're worried about scaring non-jazz fans or newbies away with long solos and interminable simple song forms ... don't be. There are plenty of Micheal Buble, Rod Stewart sings standards, Tony Bennet duets with dead Billy Holiday, Linus and Lucy, Harry Connick type CDs out there for easy listening ... that's why they call it easy listening. Jazz is dark, confusing, sudden, dramatic. If you over-arrange it and and package it, it loses some of it's impromtu quality.
I've been dissapointed in some of the playing at some concerts (Kenny Burrell did an outdoor gig at a festival with Ray Charles that pretty much crashed and burned, due to Ray's ego disorder), but Life can be like that and Jazz can be like that.
Dickie Fredericks
10-11-2009, 12:38 PM
Meh.. I liked the Benson stuff better though I really like Larry.....
Mac? yeah not so much... same ol same ol....
IMO no one is better than another though.
6Tones
10-11-2009, 01:34 PM
The glasses yield him special powers....
GovernorSilver
10-14-2009, 02:43 PM
Johnny Mac recorded "Unknown Dissident" on his "Live in Belgrade" DVD with his group, JmL and the 4th Dimension, out May of last year.
I heard him play it live during that tour you mention, but he did not play it anywhere like he did on the 70s recording. It's as if he was afraid to do any upward string bends at all on that Strat-style Godin of his.
meterman
10-14-2009, 02:50 PM
I like what Benson played the best, by a long shot
jimfog
10-14-2009, 07:17 PM
I gotta say, though - I really think that clip was dismal. When the jazz press starts wringing their hands over why jazz sales and attendance are slipping, and stuff like this is out there representing...wow.
+ Infinity
Very little actual interaction, dynamics, subtlety, listening......you know, MUSIC.
DrSax
10-14-2009, 07:27 PM
+ Infinity
Very little actual interaction, dynamics, subtlety, listening......you know, MUSIC.
+ double infinity.
that was dreadful. And all those cats are great.
BuddyGuit
10-14-2009, 07:37 PM
Absolutely, no question about it...I still think his importance to contemporary music is vastly underappreciated.
For me it starts with those 60's Gary Burton Quintet records - Duster, Lofty Fake Anagram, etc. Just mind-blowing stuff.
Agree totally!
johnzias
10-17-2009, 07:38 AM
I love those, especially "A Genuine Tong Funeral" which has the great drummer Marc Levin playing under a pseudonym among other interesting musicians, and also the Jazz Composers Orchestra double set on JCOA with Cecil Taylor.
Loved the Burton Group's foray into the Carla Bley Songbook. Great stuff!
mullytron
10-17-2009, 08:00 AM
Larry Coryell's haircut totally blew McLaughlin's and Benson's haircuts away.
John Thigpen
10-17-2009, 08:06 AM
I like what Benson played the best, by a long shot
I liked Benson's tone the best too...nice and fat. I was surprised Coryell could even get that tone in such a large setting. It was very clean and acoustic sounding, but I like a little fatter tone.
John
bigeric
10-17-2009, 12:57 PM
To each his own. Give me Grant Green anyday.
WahmBoomAh
10-18-2009, 07:08 AM
that awful and busy keyboard sound took the fighting chance away from any of the soloists.
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