View Full Version : Tone in the Amp or Fingers? I know, endless discussions
SRVYJM
10-19-2009, 05:05 PM
So, is tone in the amp, fingers, guitar, or a combination of everything? I'm thinking everything, but I'm starting to lean towards the fingers and much more guitar then amp lately.
I've been chasing Philip Sayce's tone for some time now. I have a '64 Super Reverb, a 1957 Strat (OK, OK, it's a Road Worn '50s strat, but I've played a real one, no difference. Really, it's the nitro finish and weak pickups that's makes a vintage guitar, nothing else. Really) and have a TS808, A univibe, and my personal favorite an MJM Blues Devil. Wow what a tone machine that pedal is. No question in my mind, an integral part of my tone, no doubt.
Anyway, I've just seen many clips of Philip on his European tour:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf6etrvEpf8
And guess what?!?! Philips's playing through a Marshall! Apperantly it's a SuperLead... Wow, still sounds like Mr. Sayce there... So my effort certainly should be for more technique/song writing skills then trying to GAS equipment, Eh?
shane88
10-19-2009, 06:35 PM
real people don't care what amp you use and i'd chase my own tone if i were you since it's in your fingers ;)
Wagster
10-19-2009, 06:37 PM
Good phrasing, timing and overall sense of musicality will overcome bad tone any day.
thewhit
10-19-2009, 06:49 PM
With a good amp, decent tones will come out of it, if you can play. With a crappy amp and there are great limitations by not having the right tools to express what you feel.
guitarman_1
10-19-2009, 06:51 PM
The best players Ive seen sound like themselves no matter the rig thay are playing. So I say its in the hands.I saw SRV play a small club with a Peavy Backstage 30 in the 80's, and it sounded everybit as good as any SRV show I ever saw, and I saw him live 5 times. Small club to big venue, and he used Dumbles,Marshall, Fenders, in the other shows.
Is this really something to discuss? No matter what you play through, you always kind of sound like your self. I've never plugged in to a guys equipment and thought I sounded like them. Sure, gear can alter the way you play, as different tones aspire different things, but when it all comes down to it, it's all in the hands. that's where the real tone is. It's all about how you attack the notes and the strings, what you play and how you play it. then again. you start to wonder when you hear Clapton's freakin built in midboost thingy.
when people says "fingers' they mean the touch you play w/. the way you put the string in motion has as much to do w/ the tone as anything, you cant turn a clean Fender into a dirty Marshall, but you can affect the fundimental tone w/ your touch and attack ( for better or worse too LOL )
Shiny McShine
10-19-2009, 08:18 PM
It's just like in any audio system, the very first thing is the most important and where you don't want to scrimp. If you can't form a good note to start with, no amount of adulteration will overcome it. From there the guitar is next in the tone chase. Mediocre ones will never put out a signal that turns your ear on. Then it's onto the pedals and finally the amp and speaker.
If I had no money, I would start with lessons and a decent guitar into a Cube 60. But just like in racing when you combine someone who can drive well, with a car that smokes and a crew that's on and you push hard down every straightaway and dive into every turn, you'll start becoming competitive.
eBay I love that post, it's such a great analogy to race driving ( not into racing but I hear thats how they do it )
andrekp
10-20-2009, 07:17 AM
EVERYTHING works together to create a guitarist's "tone." Changing one thing may, or may not, change enough to actually change the tone of the guitarist. It mostly depends on where the guitarist primarily gets his tone. For example, sounding like some guitarists takes little more than a Lester and a Plexi. Change the Plexi for a Dr. Z and they just won't have the same basic tone.
While others have so many componants in their tone that they can change without destroying it. I saw Brad Paisley the other night and he played a Music Man somethingorother (basically a strat) and he sounded exactly like he always does. But change his amp to a plexi, and he'd sound very different. Have someone else play all of Brad's gear, and they won't completely sound like Brad b/c they don't PLAY like Brad (assumably).
So the reason this topic keep coming up and going back and forth is because there is NO answer. It's always different for every single guitarist. So instead of always chasing the tone of some guitarist that one admires, one should find a tone for oneself.
h20man
10-20-2009, 07:27 AM
Put your finger in your ear. Do you hear anything? Exactly, its in the equipment but your fingers accentuate that tone in either a positive or negative manner.
8mileshigh
10-20-2009, 07:30 AM
My friend has a fuzz face, a strat and a 50 watt Marshall head and complains that he doesn't sound like Hendrix.....:)
h20man
10-20-2009, 07:49 AM
My friend has a fuzz face, a strat and a 50 watt Marshall head and complains that he doesn't sound like Hendrix.....:)
If Hendrix hits a D chord and your buddy hits a D chord using the same gear its gonna sound just about the same. Thing is your buddy can't play like Hendrix.
heavysoul
10-20-2009, 08:12 AM
My friend has a fuzz face, a strat and a 50 watt Marshall head and complains that he doesn't sound like Hendrix.....:)
that's cuz he needs a boutique fuzz face that has a 9 month waiting list, a custom shop strat with vintage specs asside from a 9.5 radius neck with medium jumbo frets and last but not least, a handwired point to point class A Marshall super lead clone sitting on top of a beautifully tolex'd 4x12 cab constructed with pine wood. oh and let's not forget the ultimate attenuator...
stratovarius
10-20-2009, 08:19 AM
Put your finger in your ear. Do you hear anything?
Put your hands in your pockets and then place your ear against your guitar or amp. Do you hear anything?
Tone production involves the entire system including the player. Guitar players are the only musicians who don't get this. That's ok - an entire industry depends upon your ignorance.
Jay Mitchell
10-20-2009, 08:22 AM
If Hendrix hits a D chord and your buddy hits a D chord using the same gear its gonna sound just about the same.Highly unlikely. A player's technique has a profound effect on the sound of everything he plays, including open chords.
If you want to sound like some other player, by far your best bet is to study how they play. Once you've got that part taken care of, you can turn your attention to the finer points. Without the playing part - including all the details of technique (think you'll ever sound like Mark Knopfler just because you play through the same gear?) - you're wasting your time chasing gear.
An incompetent carpenter with the world's best hammer will still bang his thumb and bend nails. :cool:
jkemmery
10-20-2009, 08:23 AM
Really, it's the nitro finish and weak pickups that's makes a vintage guitar, nothing else. Really
Gotta chime in here, because, guys, come on now, it's time to put the myth that the type of paint used on a solid bodied electric guitar has F%*&K all to do with tone. Really. I've taken the same neck and loaded pickgaurd from a poly finished body, and put them on a completely unfinished body and ... guess what ... same tone. The neck ... from the type of wood to the thickness, to the nut, to the type of tuners, to the bridge ... those are things that effect the tone. "Nitro" paint does not. As musicians and guitarists, it's time to dispell that ridiculous myth.
h20man
10-20-2009, 08:30 AM
Put your hands in your pockets and then place your ear against your guitar or amp. Do you hear anything?
Tone production involves the entire system including the player. Guitar players are the only musicians who don't get this. That's ok - an entire industry depends upon your ignorance.
Thanks for helping me make my point:band
Julia343
10-20-2009, 12:10 PM
Good phrasing, timing and overall sense of musicality will overcome bad tone any day.
This is what I think they mean by "tone is in the fingers."
ivers
10-20-2009, 12:13 PM
Well, I use my fingers to manipulate the knobs on the amp, so...
medrawt
10-20-2009, 01:08 PM
Hendrix sounds like Hendrix, on pretty much any gear.
If you played Hendrix's gear you probably wouldn't sound like Hendrix.
BUT
Hendrix, most of the time, sounds like a Strat played through a Marshall.
If you play a Strat through a Marshall, it'll probably sound like a Strat through a Marshall.
When Hendrix played an SG or a Flying V through a Marshall, he sounded like Hendrix.
But it didn't sound like he was playing a Strat.
semi-hollowbody
10-20-2009, 01:18 PM
Id rather listen to a mediocre player with GREAT tone than an excellent player with crap tone...
shane88
10-20-2009, 05:41 PM
Id rather listen to a mediocre player with GREAT tone than an excellent player with crap tone...
what interests me is how a great player could have crap tone :munch
this tone thing is apparently somewhat subjective :bounce
doublee
10-20-2009, 07:00 PM
A good player will sound good through anything. Its the technique and heart and desire,
no gear/ pedals will get you there
If Hendrix hits a D chord and your buddy hits a D chord using the same gear its gonna sound just about the same.
No it isn't..:band
Dana Olsen
10-20-2009, 08:35 PM
IMHO, we often confuse "tone" with "style", or use them somewhat interchangeably.
IMHO, Robben Ford has such a strong sense of style that he winds up sounding just like himself whether he's playing through his Dumble rig, or through his Dumble modded (but not a lot of mod) Super Reverb.
IMHO, Robben's TONE is very different from the one rig to the other rig, but he still comes off sounding just like Robben always does because he's stylistically so true to himself that he always sounds like himself no matter what he's playing through.
So, is it his TONE that's in his fingers, or is his style so strong that it often overshadows the actual tone, and we just experience our hearing of it as sounding like Robben?
That's the point I'm trying to make - there are elements of style that we include when we're talking about tone that I don't think are actually part of the actual tone, but are 'mos 'def part of the listening/ hearing experience.
That's probably more than two cents worth (GRIN), Dana O.
PS - I guess that make me think that the cat who has a Strat, a Marshall, and a Fuzzface probably DOES have similar tone to Hendrix, but he doesn't have style like Hendrix, or feel like Hendrix, so we don't hear him as sounding like Hendrix. Whereas when SRV plays Voodoo Chile through a bunch of Fenders, or a Steel String Singer, HE DOES come off as sounding like Hendrix ... 'cuz he cops Hendrix's style very well. It "FEELS" like Hendrix, as opposed to actually "sounding" like Hendrix.
All of these discussions are doomed.
Reasons?
1. Semantics What is tone? the way you play? the way you sound? the knob on the amp?
2. Making convincing and satisfying music is the sum of all the factors in the chain from the player to the amp, to the mic, mixer, recording medium, engineer's skill, and pa system. AND it is highly interactive with the player.
There is no place to point to and say "there is tone".
It's a silly, silly discussion, but hey we seem to have it once a week...
dc
Goldie295
10-21-2009, 05:02 AM
Once you know who you are and where you are going and what you want to play, it is 90% fingers and heart - 10% guitar and amp.
Reeltarded
10-21-2009, 06:57 AM
Anything my rig is not providing at any moment is compensated completely by my hands. You'd never know unless you were touching in the same place at the same time, and hearing the sound, while also hearing what my mind is thinking it needs right now.
It's a process.
coldfingaz
10-21-2009, 07:11 AM
Tone comes from your fingers, amp, guitar, pick, pedals, skills & your attitude.
I've heard players with 1000x the ability I'll ever have sound tonally like total crap.
clothwiring
10-21-2009, 07:15 AM
My drummer buddy to me said last week (after inquiring about his thoughts on me selling my Matchless)...
"You sound like you through any amp I've heard you use."
For the record he's heard me through a Jubilee, Chieftain, SJT 10/20, Cube 60, Princeton, Deluxe and some others...
stratovarius
10-21-2009, 08:40 AM
IMHO, we often confuse "tone" with "style", or use them somewhat interchangeably.
We recognize a player by his playing style, as this includes the sum total of the elements of his technique and artistic expression. What else is there? Phrasing and other aspects of a player's artistic interpretation are clearly the most recognizable elements of a player's style, but this does not preclude the possibility that there are signature characteristics to a player's note production. Tone production is also an aspect of a player's style.
If we were talking about the saxaphone or trumpet, then this would be taken as a given and we wouldn't even be having this discussion. The expression "tone is in the fingers" is not to be taken literally, but is hyperbole and intended to emphasize the fact that there is a lot more involved in playing a note than simply fretting and plucking.
Sadly, even those who have mastered the art of tone production are hung up on semantics. It would be enlightening to be able to raise the level of the discussion to what exactly are the contributing elements to good tone production on guitar, but it will never happen in this forum. It's a shame.
Dog Boy
10-21-2009, 08:43 AM
Finally a subject we can talk intelligently about!
semi-hollowbody
10-21-2009, 09:06 AM
what interests me is how a great player could have crap tone :munch
this tone thing is apparently somewhat subjective :bounce
Jimmy Page often had CRAP tone
the reason people bash mick mars BEFORE doctor feelgood and praise him after is his tone got better...still played the same old stuff but he had better tone
this is an argument over definitions...tone and technique are different things to many, otherwise ALL the great players would play without effects...if its ALL in the fingers why be picky about gear???
IF a good player and a great player played the same chords/riffs using the exact same gear, chances are you wouldnt be able to tell the difference...if Satch, Satriani, and whomever ALL played the exact same riffs without embellishing with the same rig, I would bet $$$ you wouldnt know the difference...now let them add their own flare or play their own riffs and of course most can immediately tell who it is, regardless of rig...but that aint tone, thats technique, phrasing, dynamics...
SRVYJM
11-08-2009, 07:50 AM
Gotta chime in here, because, guys, come on now, it's time to put the myth that the type of paint used on a solid bodied electric guitar has F%*&K all to do with tone. Really. I've taken the same neck and loaded pickgaurd from a poly finished body, and put them on a completely unfinished body and ... guess what ... same tone. The neck ... from the type of wood to the thickness, to the nut, to the type of tuners, to the bridge ... those are things that effect the tone. "Nitro" paint does not. As musicians and guitarists, it's time to dispell that ridiculous myth.
Totally disagree. But I play fairly clean relative to a lot. I play blues with an amp just at the edge of breakup, and I can absolutely, positively, definitely hear the difference in my Nitro finished guitar over all my poly finished guitars. No question about it, and it's the reason I play it almost exclusively now. The tone sounds ten times better, the guitar resonates better, and sustains better. It just "growls" more then my poly guitars, which all sound muffled to me after playing my nitro. I'd say you probably play pretty distorted if you can't hear a tonal difference in the paint. PLUS you didn't put it on a Nitro finished body, but an unfinished body. Not the same thing. Spry one of your unfinished bodies with nitrocellulous. Your world will change. Nitro is made from wood resins, so it naturally resonates like wood. Poly is made from plastic. It doesn't resonate well or sympathetically to the wood. It's no myth, just pure physics and science married to the art of wood.
There is a reason high quality acoustic instruments (violins, cellos, etc) are finished in nitro, not poly.
AJ Love
11-08-2009, 12:49 PM
Strongly disagree with the OP's assertion that a production "Road Worn" Fender modern strat can sound anything close to a real 1957 Fender Stratocaster. There is light year's difference in TONE between almost any modern production Fender and a real vintage Fender, in my experience
Nitro/Poly... not gonna get into that...
As far as Hendrix. I'm not usually a name dropper but I got to hang out with Buddy Miles quite a bit in the 90's. He told me that Jimi was a complete gear head and obsessed with tone, that Jimi would go through trying out dozens and dozens of Strats to find one that he loved the sound of...
B_of_H
11-08-2009, 02:19 PM
a great guitarist sounds great with anything but only slightly better with better equipment.
tone is in your hands at least 90% of it is.
Lucidology
11-08-2009, 02:51 PM
Tone is in the drugs of choice .... :YinYang
Wagster
11-08-2009, 02:55 PM
Joesph, Feeling a little naughty on your B-Day? :beer
Tone_Terrific
11-08-2009, 03:11 PM
. PLUS you didn't put it on a Nitro finished body, but an unfinished body. Not the same thing. Spry one of your unfinished bodies with nitrocellulous. Your world will change. Nitro is made from wood resins, so it naturally resonates like wood. Poly is made from plastic. It doesn't resonate well or sympathetically to the wood. It's no myth, just pure physics and science married to the art of wood.
You are saring that nitro enhances tone (whatever that is) beyond raw wood, huh?
Ken Ho
11-08-2009, 03:29 PM
Have a listen to Joe Bonamassa play Woke Up Dreaming at RAH. It's all acoustic. He egts everything from classic Spanish, to bluegrass to violin tone from a Yamaha acoustic with nothing but picking dynamics.
It's an education. OK, so no crunchy distortion, but that's an over-lay on the essential tone of a guitar anyway.
I don't believe any of the guitar greats did not care about tone though. I just don't think they pulled the pick-ups out and counted the windings or measured the output etc either.
JWDubois
11-08-2009, 03:41 PM
Highly unlikely. A player's technique has a profound effect on the sound of everything he plays, including open chords.
If you want to sound like some other player, by far your best bet is to study how they play. Once you've got that part taken care of, you can turn your attention to the finer points. Without the playing part - including all the details of technique (think you'll ever sound like Mark Knopfler just because you play through the same gear?) - you're wasting your time chasing gear.
An incompetent carpenter with the world's best hammer will still bang his thumb and bend nails. :cool:
After our discussion in "Digital and Modeling Gear" I was pretty sure you and I would never agree on anything, but I'm with you 100% here. The funny thing was I was getting roasted on another board by another Axe guy who totally refused the "tone in the fingers" argument. :)
JWW
And no matter how good you are, different gear sounds different, and choosing the right gear for the tune is musically important.
dc
cogan
11-08-2009, 06:40 PM
I've always been curious about the "it's all in the hands" school of thought. You can take any player you want and plug him straight into a dry house PA and it's going to sound like crap, regardless of what he plays. You need some bottles burning (or some other specifically designed pre-amp gear) to get a decent sound out of an electric guitar. Once you've got the basic hardware however, is a $10K amp going to make a good player sound that much better than a $600 amp? I suspect he hears a difference, and I suspect that a lot of guys here, if sitting down and listening to an isolated (no band) player on different gear will hear a difference. $10K worth of difference. Probably not. Against a band in a bar? Probably even less. I'd posit that there is a baseline as far as the gear goes; you need a decent jumping off point to get a useable tone. After that, the vast majority is coming out of the guy playing. What percentage? Who cares?
Kaji13
11-08-2009, 06:43 PM
This kid makes a solid state Marshall sound pretty good. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtvWNLrvGwc
Tone_Terrific
11-08-2009, 06:51 PM
This kid makes a solid state Marshall sound pretty good. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtvWNLrvGwc
That is hard to listen to, although I suspect he is doing a good job on a challenging piece.
Tone IS in the gear, (and it sets the ultimate limits), but the player has to get it out.
Making the right choice and having the knowledge and technique to do so is what makes the difference.
stratovarius
11-08-2009, 07:04 PM
The Freddy Krueger of TGP topics! :rolleyes:
rob2001
11-08-2009, 07:15 PM
Finally a subject we can talk intelligently about!
LOL! This one should be a sticky so future readers know the correct answers.
monty
11-09-2009, 08:58 AM
I'd say 90% comes from the hands, the other 10% from the gear, and that 10% is a big gear change not just a tweak of eq. Example, going from a Strat to a LP.
SRVYJM
11-09-2009, 10:20 AM
Strongly disagree with the OP's assertion that a production "Road Worn" Fender modern strat can sound anything close to a real 1957 Fender Stratocaster. There is light year's difference in TONE between almost any modern production Fender and a real vintage Fender, in my experience
Nitro/Poly... not gonna get into that...
As far as Hendrix. I'm not usually a name dropper but I got to hang out with Buddy Miles quite a bit in the 90's. He told me that Jimi was a complete gear head and obsessed with tone, that Jimi would go through trying out dozens and dozens of Strats to find one that he loved the sound of...
Really? Have you played a 1957 Strat? Or any vintage pre-CBS strat for that matter? Because I've played several real deal Strats, and yes, the current Nitro finished line-up from Fender, The Custom Shops, the relics, the closet classic's and even the budget Road Worn (Budget, yeah because $900.00 is thought of as a budget guitar nowadays! Nice. ) all hold their own to the real ones. I happen to live near some of Fender's best dealers (Wildwood, DrumCity GuitarLand, ect) and am very good friends with a collector that has a very, very large number of vintage strats, Gibsons, Martins, etc. and several hundred vintage Fender Amps that I get to play through, and I think Fender has their act finally back together. Do you really think 50 years ago there was some kind of magic pixie dust that they ran out of and can't apply to current production line guitars? Remember, the vintage Strats were all "production line" guitars too. In fact, Leo was the father of "production line" musical instruments, wasn't he?
I am convinced it's in the Nitro/Poly. Yes, a poly guitar can sound good, especially if it's a thin-skin coat. A poly with better wood then a nitro can sound really good too, and yes I think a nitro finished guitar sounds marginally better then a non-finished guitar, but don't have a LOT of experience with that, but basically I'm saying all things being equal, a nitro finished guitar crushes a poly finish in terms of musical tone, all day long.
Now on the original subject of tone in the fingers, I think I came out saying it was mostly in the fingers, as the example used, Philip Sayce on a Marshall instead of Fender amps, sounds like Philip Sayce still. But I think that is much more about style and technique in the fingers, then TONE. And the more I listen to the Dingwalls gig's online, the more I like his sound before when he was using his Fender amps or even the Cougar. It just sounds sweeter to ME. It still of course sounds like Philip, but not as sonically beautiful as before" IMHO only." Everything from the current European set sounds less like his signature tone to me. Like the tone he had in the OXFUZZ samples through his Super Reverb. That to me is the perfect Strat tone, all the way. Oh, and that's wierd, his guitar is finished in nitro? Cooincidence? I think not. It's those big grand piano like open string hits where the nitro finish really shines through.
In fact, the more I think about it, all my favorite guitar players play guitars that are covered in nitro. Not one of them plays a poly guitar. Not one. Hmmm...
hudpucker
11-09-2009, 10:41 AM
but basically I'm saying all things being equal, a nitro finished guitar crushes a poly finish in terms of musical tone, all day long.
"Good tone" is subjective.
Game over.
hcole
11-09-2009, 02:53 PM
Tone in the amp or hands????
Does it have to be mutually exclusive because it seems pretty clear to me that the final product (the tone) is a bit like a stew and every ingredient contributes to the outcome.
markbosko
11-12-2009, 08:59 AM
1 - the player.
2 - the guitar
3 - amp
4 - effects
When you listen to Jimi playing an acoustic 12 string - it still sounds like Jimi.
SRVYJM
11-17-2009, 10:22 AM
1 - the player.
2 - the guitar
3 - amp
4 - effects
When you listen to Jimi playing an acoustic 12 string - it still sounds like Jimi.
yes, but from a definition standpoint I'd call that Jimi's style, not his tone. It certainly doesn't sound like Jimi through a Strat and Marshall stacks with Fuzz on or an octavia or wah. But yeah, I guess I'm saying there are two different terms.
Style- an identifiable approach to phrasing, rhythm, chord progressions, melody, soloing, etc.
Tone- the timbre an instrument obtains through various means, such as wood types, pickups, acoustic chamber, amp, pedals, room, mic, etc.
In fact, I'm putting up a new post for definitions to stop this argument. Tone is NOT in the fingers exclusively, but style definitely is. We need two definitions. SRV sound like SRV's style no matter what he plays on, but his tone certainly is different depending on what instrumentation and amplification he is using. Similar maybe, the same NO~
Ed DeGenaro
11-17-2009, 10:49 AM
Jimmy Page often had CRAP tone
the reason people bash mick mars BEFORE doctor feelgood and praise him after is his tone got better...still played the same old stuff but he had better tone
this is an argument over definitions...tone and technique are different things to many, otherwise ALL the great players would play without effects...if its ALL in the fingers why be picky about gear???
IF a good player and a great player played the same chords/riffs using the exact same gear, chances are you wouldnt be able to tell the difference...if Satch, Satriani, and whomever ALL played the exact same riffs without embellishing with the same rig, I would bet $$$ you wouldnt know the difference...now let them add their own flare or play their own riffs and of course most can immediately tell who it is, regardless of rig...but that aint tone, thats technique, phrasing, dynamics...
But we're talking about his recorded tone right? That often has less to do with the player than the engineer, heck tha' wh I got into engineering since the majority of the time what I heard in my head/in the room and what ended up coming out of the monitors coulda been two different players. That is no more the case.
As for the whole tone in the fingers debate...everything makes a difference, and affects what it sounds like. From the player to gear to humidity to alcohol intake of the listener. But in the end the one thing that is the great equalizer is the way the player attacks the string how, where, at what angle, etc...when the gear doesn't respond or sound right instead of hours of endless twiddling that player hit the string some where else...there, done.
SRVYJM
11-17-2009, 10:55 AM
But we're talking about his recorded tone right? That often has less to do with the player than the engineer, heck tha' wh I got into engineering since the majority of the time what I heard in my head/in the room and what ended up coming out of the monitors coulda been two different players. That is no more the case.
As for the whole tone in the fingers debate...everything makes a difference, and affects what it sounds like. From the player to gear to humidity to alcohol intake of the listener. But in the end the one thing that is the great equalizer is the way the player attacks the string how, where, at what angle, etc...when the gear doesn't respond or sound right instead of hours of endless twiddling that player hit the string some where else...there, done.
See my next thread. I agree, but we are talking about the difference between TONE and STYLE. Two different things entirely.
Ed DeGenaro
11-17-2009, 11:04 AM
See my next thread. I agree, but we are talking about the difference between TONE and STYLE. Two different things entirely.
Already replied...but here ya go, an old clip I use as an example when folks usually do"well if tone is in the fingers make a Fender sound like a Recto..."
Going between a Bassman and a Soldano...
www.eddegenaro.com/audio/ab.mp3
You gonna tell me that this isn't close enough? And that was without trying to dial anything in to sound similar. Merely turned it on and played at whatever setting it was left from last use. We all have this tendency to dial gear to sound the same in order for us to get what we want...
Cussion
11-17-2009, 03:13 PM
A good player can make a lousy amp sound great.....
I remember hearing an obscure '70s record by a european group, and asking the guitarist what kind of amp he used for the recording.. thinking it was probably a cranked Marshall, Hiwatt or something like that.. he told me it was an italian solid state amp called Steelphon or something like that. The thing had a built in fuzz, and he probably cranked the shit out of the amp.. producing this great violin-like distortion tone! Great player with fat tone.. !
A good player can make a lousy amp sound great.....
I remember hearing an obscure '70s record by a european group, and asking the guitarist what kind of amp he used for the recording.. thinking it was probably a cranked Marshall, Hiwatt or something like that.. he told me it was an italian solid state amp called Steelphon or something like that. The thing had a built in fuzz, and he probably cranked the shit out of the amp.. producing this great violin-like distortion tone! Great player with fat tone.. !
Which of course, does NOT mean that good players should lousy amps...
dc
Kaji13
11-17-2009, 08:49 PM
Which of course, does NOT mean that good players should lousy amps...
dc
Doesn't mean you need to use the greatest one ever either
Doesn't mean you need to use the greatest one ever either
No, but the really important part that no one mentions, is it doesn't matter in the least what amp someone thinks someone else should or shouldn't be playing through.
We pays our money and takes our choice.
dc
Kaji13
11-17-2009, 08:58 PM
No, but the really important part that no one mentions, is it doesn't matter in the least what amp someone thinks someone else should or shouldn't be playing through.
We pays our money and takes our choice.
dc
Exactly.
BTW, I have the best amp in the world. IM-ever-so-HO.
My '69 HIWATT DR103.
I can make a Lunchbox or a Cube sound good, but I sound better through the HIWATT.
dc
Kaji13
11-17-2009, 09:13 PM
BTW, I have the best amp in the world. IM-ever-so-HO.
My '69 HIWATT DR103.
I can make a Lunchbox or a Cube sound good, but I sound better through the HIWATT.
dc
Haha, I was reading your blog, and you definately love that thing. I can't blame you, those are some amazing amps.
On a side note, you write very well. I really liked your bit about the Resonator Guitar design VS. that PRS thing ( was it an Ed Roman?).
90wreck
11-17-2009, 09:17 PM
In the fingers IMO.
I just rehearsed for a gig tonight with a throw together band for a few one nighters.
My best friend Brent who I consider one of the best players in the state of Ohio showed up with a MIJ Tele and a Pro Jr.(no fx) and smoked as he always does....You can put a turd in his hands and he would make music out of it.
His name...Brent Thomas..."Amish Guitar Player" from Hardin County Ohio.
Make note of it.
He builds amps and has a huge vintage amp/guitar collection......Classic example of "tone is in the hands/fingers".
Haha, I was reading your blog, and you definately love that thing. I can't blame you, those are some amazing amps.
On a side note, you write very well. I really liked your bit about the Resonator Guitar design VS. that PRS thing ( was it an Ed Roman?).
Thanks. I think that was an Ed special...
dc
In the fingers IMO.
I just rehearsed for a gig tonight with a throw together band for a few one nighters.
My best friend Brent who I consider one of the best players in the state of Ohio showed up with a MIJ Tele and a Pro Jr.(no fx) and smoked as he always does....You can put a turd in his hands and he would make music out of it.
No, actually, he would first look horrified, then he would run off to wash his hands, and then he would come back and kick your ass for putting a turd in his hands.
:bumpbump
dc
bopplayer
11-17-2009, 09:35 PM
I think if you can really play and you do have it in your hands, then if you can afford it, hey go crazy. What blows me away is when I see some guy playing Pink Floyd through a Gilmour pedal board loaded with Cornish pedals and he sucks.
I think if you can really play and you do have it in your hands, then if you can afford it, hey go crazy. What blows me away is when I see some guy playing Pink Floyd through a Gilmour pedal board loaded with Cornish pedals and he sucks.
Yeah, but he'd suck through cheap gear too and this way his suckage sounded better... Or at least looked great.
I think we need to stop telling others what they should play...
dc
semi-hollowbody
11-18-2009, 05:54 AM
Could we get a higher power that we all would agree with to produce definitions of these terms...as that is what this debate is about, definitions...
To me tone is gear related...unless someones fingers are made out of a different material than skin and bones, tone is tone is tone...I agree that if hendrix came over and played an open g chord through my rig, and then I played it, it would sound the same...THAT is my tone...now if he was to play music of course he would sound different and that is technique/style...how do you discuss gear on a gear forum if every piece of gear was reviewed as "this (amp, guitar, pedal) sounds great with some, sounds horrible with others as tone is really in the fingers...we would all be playing fernandez guitars, line 6 amps, and digitech grunge pedals
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