When your the only guitarist...

[jamon]

Are there any tips for playing when your the only guitarist in a band.(singer,bass,drums,guitar) I play jamband stuff like phish and moe. and reggae. How would I go about soloing because their isnt enought space to fill out the background when I solo.

[Redhouse-Blues]

That's a really good question, this past week I did a trio Blues thing and I quickly learned how hard it was, I needed to fill up way more space and some of my solo's sounded off because of it. I learned I need to spend some time making sure while I solo, I follow the chord changes, so you can still hear the song moving along.

[arthur rotfeld]

At a certain point you get used to it (or you don't).

For most of college I was that way...got totally used to so-called "small ensembles" of 5, 6, 7 pieces. After graduating, started really playing in more realistic small groups. Trios (bass, drums, guitar) and duos (guitar and bass). It's pretty rare that my gigs pay well enough to bring four guys, and almost never enough for five.

Do trio playing enough, and you might not even want a chord player present. You might enjoy the freedom.

Check out Frisell's or Stern's trio playing...they clearly revel in the idea, as do many other jazzers, even horn players, such as Sonny Rollins and Joe Henderson. Maybe check out live Cream, Hendrix, Zeppelin (when JPJ was on bass rather than keys), Government Mule, etc. etc.

[Swain]

Well, I'd focus on Rhythmic Figures, Chordal Scratches, Partial Voicings, etc. Repeated things.

Also, there is more space with less Instrumentation. So, the other Musicians can also fiil in more of it.
Maybe the Drummer and Bassist are also newer to filling out a 3 Piece? Perhaps Tunes with busier, more "up front" Basslines?

I'd suggest learning some Tunes done by 3 Piece Bands. That way, everyone in the Band gets some "advice" from the Masters. Learning a Set List worth of Tunes by some Trios will give you all the chance to pick up some Techniques and Vocabulary.

[dosmun]

The bass player must play a part in this. In a 3 piece band everyone has a bigger part.

[dantedayjob]

I prefer playing in a power trio and I've never felt like there was a "hole" behind me when soloing. Dissecting what I do; 1) play with a dark, fat tone- it helps fill more sonic "space" than a bright, cutting tone. 2) vary the dynamics, speed, intensity of the solo as much as possible. 3) Talk to the drummer about reacting back and forth to dynamics during the solo, try to find ways to make the solo more of a band effort than just the guitarist going off. 4) Try to make the solo move, convey a sense of motion with the playing, it should carry the listener along.

[barny]

i think sometimes its good to do the opposite to what you normally would...most people try and build the solo up after the vocals and it sometimes falls flat with a 3 piece...its sometimes a good idea especially with the blues to start building from nothing..in that i mean let the bass and drums play then come in and start building the solo from there..you have somewhere to go then....

[80's metalman]

it's always nice to have a bass player that has a good bottom end sound and not to much of a mid range sound, also what i noticed alot was alex van halen plays alot of semi open hi hats which really fill in the sound when ya go into leads, so it helps if the drummer could do some of that for ya, good luck and good jammin!!!

[buddastrat]

You can do lots of stuff. everyone steps up. I love playing like this. Lots of times, the bass can do more interesting, fuller parts, even chord stuff. Work out guitar parts to include open string drones, unisons, and stronger melodic statements instead of wanking. Melody will keep the listeners ear and it will not sound empty. Use space as well. Sometimes it's too cluttered. If bass is playing something interesting and drums (like 80's metalman noted) are filling itup, there's so much stuff you can do.

[rob2001]

It's a different vibe and IMO, you have to embrace the spaces, not try to fill them. Otherwise you get bass players playing like guitarists, drummers doing way too much etc...Thats just my opinion mainly because i'm in a 3 piece band and sounding like Cream live is something I want to avoid. Great band, but not what i'm trying to accomplish. If you are going for the Cream vibe, by all means, everyone go nuts when the guitar solo spot comes up!

Overall, I think song choice is the key. Some songs can stand while you drop out of rhythm playing to do a solo, some fall apart without the rhythm melody.

So either choose songs that can handle being done with a 3 piece band or write accordingly. Also, band dynamics are amplified with only three guys. It's not necessary for everyone to over-do dynamic changes. Often, one or two instruments backing down or building up is all you need for dramatic dynamic changes.

[jaydub69]

Right now I am the guitarist in a guitar/drummer duo. We haven't gigged yet and are looking for a Bassist. I am not nearly comfortable in this role as I am as Second or Lead guitarist. I like to be able to play melodies and color the sound. It has been good experience, but I still find the songs fall flat when doing single note lines. I have been toying with the idea of getting a looper to play while I do leads.

The White Stripes are amazing together and it makes me frustrated to not even have a bit of this vibe. Maybe if I can get my drummer to settle the frack down like you guys are saying.

-john

[DrSax]

Alot you can do, as mentioned in the above posts. But I tell you, it helps a ton if your bass/drums guys are really good.

[Guitar Josh]

The bass player must play a part in this. In a 3 piece band everyone has a bigger part.

Exactly. If your bass player is playing 4/4 root note patterns, it won't work.

[Hedegaardo1]

Maybe you don't like the music of the Red Hot Chili Peppers, but you could try look at the solos John Frusciante is playing.. I never think that their music lacks anything while John is playing a solo, but that might be because of their extremly talented bass player Flea :) .. Try listen to the song "Out of my mind" by John Mayer trio. Again I don't experience a lack in their music.. I guess it's just a process you gotta complete like when you started to play a regular solo with a chord progression in the back:)

[jamon]

i love the chilis... especially their older stuff. Are there any jam band like oyterhead for example, that have three members? or one bas one guitar, a drummer and a singer?

[strat a various]

You have to get over leaning on chords when you play. If the Bass player is good, he'll outline the chords (check out Berry Oakley, Allman bros.) and if you're doing your job, the harmonic structure and form of the song will be evident in your playing. Guys like Stevie Ray Vaughan, Johnny Winter, and Billy Gibbons nail this way of trio playing. I saw Z.Z. Top in the 70s, live, no overdubs, just a trio. Didn't sound empty to me.
Helps if the trio can play in time together.

[Tomo]

I love playing as a trio. When you play your solo, you can play single notes that can outline chord changes and you can play rhythm guitar around your solo. Start with ... 3rd & 7th if you are playing blues etc..... but it's really fun to communicate with your bass player and drummer. Play like a conversation.
PS, don't practice with backing tracks. Practice more comping first and when you practice your solo... play your solo without any backing... so that you make yourself aware more about each song form, chord changes.. more you practice.. you aware these naturally. Practice w/ and w/out a metronome.

Tomo

[jaydub69]

Tomo, Redhouse,

Very understandable. Good advice. However, I still have problems with certain songs in which my guitar, at least how I hear it, is holding the "pulse" together. As I wrote earlier, maybe a looper is best in these particular situations. So far I've been compensating by holding back on single note lines and using a more chord melody (albeit simplistic) approach.

Anyway, here is a clip from today's practice with my drummer. I don't normally post practice sessions, but thought it relevant to the discussion. We usually start or end the practice with a loose jam of some sort.

http://web.me.com/jaydub69/Site_3/Music/Entries/2009/11/2_PP_11_1.html

What I like is that I can pull a melody out of the ether and don’t have to coordinate it with a bass player.

-John

[Tomo]

Tomo, Redhouse,

Very understandable. Good advice. However, I still have problems with certain songs in which my guitar, at least how I hear it, is holding the "pulse" together. As I wrote earlier, maybe a looper is best in these particular situations. So far I've been compensating by holding back on single note lines and using a more chord melody (albeit simplistic) approach.

Anyway, here is a clip from today's practice with my drummer. I don't normally post practice sessions, but thought it relevant to the discussion. We usually start or end the practice with a loose jam of some sort.

http://web.me.com/jaydub69/Site_3/Music/Entries/2009/11/1_PP_11_1.html

What I like is that I can pull a melody out of the ether and don’t have to coordinate it with a bass player.

-John


Hi John,

Can you play a melody and play chords between your melody.... and can you hold grove by yourself without a looper or drummer and bass player?

Example soloing over F7 vamp... space, call & response etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70NQIkprTtU

Example soloing over D blues... melody idea etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wggng7o_XUI

Thanks,

Tomo

[Melodic Dreamer]

Like others have said, the band your playing with will make all the difference. Following or outlining the chord progression is a must in my opinion. Even if you go outside, it helps having the foundation for the listener to become familiar with.

[gennation]

What many of the blues power trio guys do (Hendrix, SRV, etc...) is wrap their thumbs around the top of the fretboard and tag those Root notes (or 3rds or 5ths), or simply mute the lower strings. Then they use the single note 'strumming' technique with tons of muting.

This way, what they play sounds full. And then they can contrast it with with singled out single note playing later int he solo. This idea has more contrast instead of just letting everything fall out and jumping right into single note shredding shredding.

Just watch vids from Hendrix and SRV, you'll see how strumming and muting keeps their single note playing sound full.

[buddastrat]

Again, we keep reiterating these suggestions using multiple strings and strumming which works, but, I'll stress again that if you simply play with melody, instead of wanking too much, it will be fine. Because the listener will have something to digest. To me, especially some of these blues guitar trios, make it sound weak when they start wanking too much and you get bored and then you notice other stuff or lack of.

Just be like the singer.

[travisvwright]

I think a very important thing is having the confidence to not over play when you aren't soloing. For example try letting just the bass and drums control it when the singer is singing (assuming you have vocals) only filling in space between.

[jaydub69]

I see. Perhaps some quick stabs at first so the sonic difference is not too great. A little lick, back to the chords, a little longer lick, back to the chords, and then I can go whole hog on it.

-john

[Shiny McShine]

Strong ideas go a long way to filling the space.

[sinner]

Hi John,

Example soloing over D blues... melody idea etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wggng7o_XUI

Thanks,

Tomo

Love that D blues one, Tomo! I "hear" you speaking!