Boxing MMA question......

[silencer eleven]

There weights aren't even close. It would make more sense to say PacMan vs. Faber or PacMan vs. Mike Brown. And like everyone has said, it depends on the rules. Boxing PacMan, anything else MMA Fighter.

[Wagster]

In a boxing match GSP gets detroyed. In a MMA match Manny gets destroyed by leg kicks and then taken to the ground. MMA guys can't stand toe to toe and exchange punches with a world class boxer. Same goes for boxers defending the take down. GSP has the best take down in MMA. Plus GSP is a bigger guy so it's unfair from the start.

[suckamc]

The NUMBER of things which are allowed is barely relevant. MMA guy will get in the act of doing any one of those things.

[furry]

GSP would be asleep within 45 seconds.

incorrect. do you really think GSP would be stupid enough to think he could stand and box with a world-class boxer? that's the whole point. it's like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

Manny would never get close enough to hit GSP, much less knock him out. It would be inside leg kick, body kick, head kick, take down, ground and pound, etc.

It would be over so fast, Manny wouldn't even know what happened.

[Bo Faulkner]

Watched that sport science show one episode where they compared MMA guys to karate and boxers and kick boxers. Conclusion was that the MMA guys punch harder, kick harder , and can take WAAY more punishment than any of the others

[suckamc]

incorrect. do you really think GSP would be stupid enough to think he could stand and box with a world-class boxer? that's the whole point. it's like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

Manny would never get close enough to hit GSP, much less knock him out. It would be inside leg kick, body kick, head kick, take down, ground and pound, etc.

It would be over so fast, Manny wouldn't even know what happened.

Hahaha. Man, you've never done either.

"Well, GSP would just kick him!" Or "GSP would just take him to the ground." Kicks... lol. He'd get hit doing any of that. You've never boxed, so you don't know how quickly a boxer closes distance, but that whole "he'd keep far enough away from him" is couch jockey talk. But that's cool. This debate always goes the same, so I'll check out now.

[fetishfrog]

Hahaha. Man, you've never done either.

"Well, GSP would just kick him!" Or "GSP would just take him to the ground." Kicks... lol. He'd get hit doing any of that. You've never boxed, so you don't know how quickly a boxer closes distance, but that whole "he'd keep far enough away from him" is couch jockey talk. But that's cool. This debate always goes the same, so I'll check out now.

It's all academic until a world class boxer gets in the MMA cage. Dana White has a standing offer to Floyd Mayweather for a large cash payout to fight any mid level fighter in his weight class. As expected, the offer goes unclaimed.

[furry]

Hahaha. Man, you've never done either.

"Well, GSP would just kick him!" Or "GSP would just take him to the ground." Kicks... lol. He'd get hit doing any of that. You've never boxed, so you don't know how quickly a boxer closes distance, but that whole "he'd keep far enough away from him" is couch jockey talk. But that's cool. This debate always goes the same, so I'll check out now.

uh, oh...sound like a challenge. guess we're going to have to settle this...

INSIDE THE OCTOGON!

lol

[paris is burnin]

Damm when I started I didn't think about the size difference between them (GSPvsPAC).Maybe a better example would have been Mayweather against GSP.I luv most of your opinons,but I just dont think you guys are giving boxers(big time punchers) enough credit for there punching power.But on the same thought how many boxers could take a good and I mean good leg kick.Think about the match between Griffin and Rampage...Griffin kicked him so hard in the leg,Rampage could hardly walk after the fight,and these guys train for leg kicks

[macheesmo3]

It's just two different sports.... The act of defense is so different between the two that it really wouldn't be a fair fight if one had to change disciplines in a hurry to fight the other...

[suckamc]

uh, oh...sound like a challenge. guess we're going to have to settle this...

INSIDE THE OCTOGON!

lol

http://www.homestarrunner.com/20x6vs1936.html
;)

[bkd_guitarist]

Hahaha. Man, you've never done either.

"Well, GSP would just kick him!" Or "GSP would just take him to the ground." Kicks... lol. He'd get hit doing any of that. You've never boxed, so you don't know how quickly a boxer closes distance, but that whole "he'd keep far enough away from him" is couch jockey talk. But that's cool. This debate always goes the same, so I'll check out now.

This.

Evidently very few people on this thread have actually watched any boxing. The hand and foot speed of a Manny Pacquiao or a Floyd Mayweather is absolutely blinding, far beyond the quickest MMA guy that I've seen. Ever done any actual boxing? I have, with a former professional welterweight. Not a "name" fighter, certainly nowhere near the level of a Pacquiao, and still it was like being lowered into a cage with a tiger. You don't see the punches coming. It's like getting hit from behind, and suddenly you end up on your ass with no idea how you got there.

For those who think GSP would win in a quick, overwhelming rush, that technique would likely end with a very fast uppercut and GSP on his back. You do not come straight in at a pro boxer and remain vertical for very long.

Granted, GSP does have a much larger arsenal of techniques he can use. Unfortunately, none of that helps when the guy you're trying to hit/kick/grab/submit/clothesline is simply not there. The boxer is too quick. Pacquiao wins this one.

[DamianP]

Who would win?

Lance Armstrong or Valentino Rossi.


Damian.

[paris is burnin]

Lance Vs Contador.....oh wait we already know:rotflmao

[fetishfrog]

Who would win?

Lance Armstrong or Valentino Rossi.


Damian.

In the 200 meter butterfly, I'd have to go Armstrong. In 18 holes of match play at Pebble Beach...Rossi all the way.

[furry]

This.

Evidently very few people on this thread have actually watched any boxing. The hand and foot speed of a Manny Pacquiao or a Floyd Mayweather is absolutely blinding, far beyond the quickest MMA guy that I've seen. Ever done any actual boxing? I have, with a former professional welterweight. Not a "name" fighter, certainly nowhere near the level of a Pacquiao, and still it was like being lowered into a cage with a tiger. You don't see the punches coming. It's like getting hit from behind, and suddenly you end up on your ass with no idea how you got there.

For those who think GSP would win in a quick, overwhelming rush, that technique would likely end with a very fast uppercut and GSP on his back. You do not come straight in at a pro boxer and remain vertical for very long.

Granted, GSP does have a much larger arsenal of techniques he can use. Unfortunately, none of that helps when the guy you're trying to hit/kick/grab/submit/clothesline is simply not there. The boxer is too quick. Pacquiao wins this one.

you guys are insane. you act like GSP is some little nerd off the street.

I'm not a boxer, and it doesn't matter if I am or not. GSP is a world champion professional fighter. he gets punched and kicked in the face for a LIVING. and he's fought plenty of formidable opponents and kicked their asses handily. he's not some internet guitar forum wannabe. he's the real deal.

I'm sure pure boxers are faster than they look, and I'm sure Manny would kick any MMA fighters ass in a pure boxing match. until--inevitably--boxers start joining the MMA ranks, because the money will only get better as the sport gains fans, mainstream acceptance, and respect.

the thing you're forgetting is, these MMA guys ARE boxers--and kickers, and grapplers and wrestlers and everything else. they are FIGHTERS. they fight every day, they train hard, they are word-class athletes and they take punishment and keep coming back for more.

I wouldn't dismiss MMA so fast. it's here to stay, and ultimately, boxers are going to have to answer the ever-louder calls from fans and promoters alike to step into teh octagon and have at it.

ultimately, there won't be a distinction one way or the other, and this argument will become moot--because all the most talented fighters will end up in the octagon due to the financial incentives.

[DamianP]

In the 200 meter butterfly, I'd have to go Armstrong. In 18 holes of match play at Pebble Beach...Rossi all the way.


Ha!
Very good.

Damian.

[DamianP]

Lance Vs Contador.....oh wait we already know:rotflmao


Let`s not start that again. Not until next year anyway!

Damian.

[bkd_guitarist]

you guys are insane. you act like GSP is some little nerd off the street.


I don't mean to come across as dismissive of GSP or MMA. GSP is an elite fighter, and I sure as hell wouldn't want to tangle with him. I just think that Pacquiao would get the better of this one.

[FenderBigot]

Lots of great points so far... but it really comes down to this: MMA fighters know what it's like to get hit with the 4oz gloves, boxers know what it's like to get hit with 10oz gloves. Once ANY boxer (pac, Maywthr or other) takes their first MEDIUM power punch square on the jaw with 4oz gloves, the fight will be decided 20 seconds later. Boxers spar with bigger gloves than 10oz when they train, so they still get stung when they step into the ring during a regular match. Plain and simple... it's about how the MMA guys train vs. the boxers and knowing what is coming any second during the fight.

[furry]

Lots of great points so far... but it really comes down to this: MMA fighters know what it's like to get hit with the 4oz gloves, boxers know what it's like to get hit with 10oz gloves. Once ANY boxer (pac, Maywthr or other) takes their first MEDIUM power punch square on the jaw with 4oz gloves, the fight will be decided 20 seconds later. Boxers spar with bigger gloves than 10oz when they train, so they still get stung when they step into the ring during a regular match. Plain and simple... it's about how the MMA guys train vs. the boxers and knowing what is coming any second during the fight.

yes, all very true. but these points are really ancillary to the central argument some of the previous posters are making, which is that MMA fighters are somehow inferior athletes, not as quick, won't see the punches coming, etc.

as if the match-up is akin to Ali fighting Julia Child...

I'm confident that pride will get the better of the boxing community. They won't be able to ignore the taunting from Dana White for long.

We'll see this debate settled soon enough...

[furry]

I don't mean to come across as dismissive of GSP or MMA. GSP is an elite fighter, and I sure as hell wouldn't want to tangle with him. I just think that Pacquiao would get the better of this one.

not to beat this dead horse any more than it needs to be, but I'm curious...

assuming they were to fight tomorrow with the skills they currently possess, do you really think GSP's strategy would take shape as follows?

'hmm, we know he's a great boxer, so we could either take away his strength and get him to the ground and submit him in the first 15 seconds--or, we could stand toe-to-toe make him PROVE that he's a champion boxer. he's not as good as everybody thinks...

yeah, let's go with the boxing strategy. tap-outs are for pussies.'

c'mon now...

[bkd_guitarist]

not to beat this dead horse any more than it needs to be, but I'm curious...

assuming they were to fight tomorrow with the skills they currently possess, do you really think GSP's strategy would take shape as follows?

'hmm, we know he's a great boxer, so we could either take away his strength and get him to the ground and submit him in the first 15 seconds--or, we could stand toe-to-toe make him PROVE that he's a champion boxer. he's not as good as everybody thinks...

yeah, let's go with the boxing strategy. tap-outs are for pussies.'

c'mon now...

Normally I'm up for a good TGP argument, but you seem to have caught me on a "don't really give a shit" day. I've stated my opinion and I'll leave it at that.

[jimfog]

The hand and foot speed of a Manny Pacquiao or a Floyd Mayweather is absolutely blinding, far beyond the quickest MMA guy that I've seen. Ever done any actual boxing? I have, with a former professional welterweight. Not a "name" fighter, certainly nowhere near the level of a Pacquiao, and still it was like being lowered into a cage with a tiger. You don't see the punches coming. It's like getting hit from behind, and suddenly you end up on your ass with no idea how you got there.

For those who think GSP would win in a quick, overwhelming rush, that technique would likely end with a very fast uppercut and GSP on his back. You do not come straight in at a pro boxer and remain vertical for very long..........The boxer is too quick. Pacquiao wins this one.

Silly argument, but this is the answer. Not even close.

[furry]

Normally I'm up for a good TGP argument, but you seem to have caught me on a "don't really give a shit" day. I've stated my opinion and I'll leave it at that.

hmmmm...is giving a shit a prerequisite for these discussions?

guess I missed that memo... : ^ ]

[bkd_guitarist]

hmmmm...is giving a shit a prerequisite for these discussions?

guess I missed that memo... : ^ ]

Yes, I only debate weighty matters of extreme import on TGP. You know, stuff like whether the Enterprise could outrun the Millennium Falcon, or whether guitar straps sound better after they're broken in. :rolleyes:

[Jarrett]

Not that it really matters, but I've trained with pro athletes in both sports.

In MMA, GSP would win
In Boxing, Pacquiao would win

It's apples and oranges. Just to help people understand the reasoning a little better, its one thing to be able to stand confidently and throw hands without the fear of being taken down, its a whole other thing to throw hands when you don't know if your feet will be under you after you do, knowing that if your opponent got on top of you, the fight would be over. That's the type of mind game that turns you from a confident stalker to a cautious counter puncher in the ring, and that's what would make the difference in this scenario.

[reddgeetarzan]

you guys are insane. you act like GSP is some little nerd off the street.

I'm not a boxer, and it doesn't matter if I am or not. GSP is a world champion professional fighter. he gets punched and kicked in the face for a LIVING. and he's fought plenty of formidable opponents and kicked their asses handily. he's not some internet guitar forum wannabe. he's the real deal.

I'm sure pure boxers are faster than they look, and I'm sure Manny would kick any MMA fighters ass in a pure boxing match. until--inevitably--boxers start joining the MMA ranks, because the money will only get better as the sport gains fans, mainstream acceptance, and respect.

the thing you're forgetting is, these MMA guys ARE boxers--and kickers, and grapplers and wrestlers and everything else. they are FIGHTERS. they fight every day, they train hard, they are word-class athletes and they take punishment and keep coming back for more.

I wouldn't dismiss MMA so fast. it's here to stay, and ultimately, boxers are going to have to answer the ever-louder calls from fans and promoters alike to step into teh octagon and have at it.

ultimately, there won't be a distinction one way or the other, and this argument will become moot--because all the most talented fighters will end up in the octagon due to the financial incentives.

I'm with you 110%

Boxing is just a facet of a TRUE fighter- St Pierres wrestling skills alone would take the "boxing" champ out- and quickly-

Do you guys honestly think any boxer knows how to defend a take down? There is no answer for that if you don't know what you're doing- dancing ain't gonna get you anwhere except up against the fence, then down for an arm bar or rear naked choke......or any other myriad of jiujitsu offense moves.

Not even a fair contest..........and I think St Pierre could take a few rounds if was just a boxing match.....

[furry]

Yes, I only debate weighty matters of extreme import on TGP. You know, stuff like whether the Enterprise could outrun the Millennium Falcon, or whether guitar straps sound better after they're broken in. :rolleyes:

right. sometimes I lay awake at night pondering the latest John Mayer/Dumble thread...

[furry]

Not that it really matters, but I've trained with pro athletes in both sports.

In MMA, GSP would win
In Boxing, Pacquiao would win

It's apples and oranges. Just to help people understand the reasoning a little better, its one thing to be able to stand confidently and throw hands without the fear of being taken down, its a whole other thing to throw hands when you don't know if your feet will be under you after you do, knowing that if your opponent got on top of you, the fight would be over. That's the type of mind game that turns you from a confident stalker to a cautious counter puncher in the ring, and that's what would make the difference in this scenario.

c'mon bro', you're stating the obvious. TAKE A SIDE!

[pnksntdead]

MMA fighters should win since they train for pretty much everything. That being said, I'd pay to watch a great boxing match over a great MMA match any day.

[Frankee]

Serious question to MMA proponents:

How does one of these devastating takedowns of the boxer occur?

In order to take the guy down, you gotta get close.....come within 2 feet of a world class boxer and you're gonna get hit 3 or 4 or 5 times......hard. And you won't see the punches. These guys don't throw those big, lumbering, overhand haymakers that leave you wide open like the MMA cats do.

Throwing a kick at a boxer?........you just became a one-legged opponent.

[furry]

Serious question to MMA proponents:

How does one of these devastating takedowns of the boxer occur?

In order to take the guy down, you gotta get close.....come within 2 feet of a world class boxer and you're gonna get hit 3 or 4 or 5 times......hard. And you won't see the punches. These guys don't throw those big, lumbering, overhand haymakers that leave you wide open like the MMA cats do.

Throwing a kick at a boxer?........you just became a one-legged opponent.

once again--and I ask this with all due respect--WHO DO YOU THINK THESE MMA GUYS ARE...HAIRDRESSERS?

They are professional fighters. They go up against opponents with multiple fighting skills, INCLUDING BOXING. They know how to box, how to move, how to avoid punches, and most importantly, HOW TO DEAL WITH A FIGHTER WHO'S ONLY SKILL IS BOXING.

Here's the bottom line. Unless you are an absolute WORLD-CLASS EXPERT at takedown defense, YOU WILL END UP ON THE GROUND IN A WORLD OF HURT. I don't care if it's Ali, or Tyson, or Jones Jr., or FREAKING ROCKY BALBOA.

[Wagster]

There is no way that Pac would beat GSP in a MMA match. I don't even see how you guys could even think that Manny would walk through GSP. George would kick the crap out of him and take him down to the ground. The fight would end shortly after.

[Frankee]

I don't think MMA fighters are hairdressers....or anything effeminate. I've seen some real skill in the octagon.

But, on average, I see far more speed, better reaction time, and overall better conditioning from top-tier boxers like Pacquiao. I don't see anybody getting within two feet of these guys without a bullwhip-quick punch landing on someones chin, eye-socket, snotbox, etc.

To me, MMA looks slow and clumsy in comparison ......that may be due to the differences in styles represented, but that's just how I see it.

[furry]

I don't think MMA fighters are hairdressers....or anything effeminate. I've seen some real skill in the octagon.

But, on average, I see far more speed, better reaction time, and overall better conditioning from top-tier boxers like Pacquiao. I don't see anybody getting within two feet of these guys without a bullwhip-quick punch landing on someones chin, eye-socket, snotbox, etc.

To me, MMA looks slow and clumsy in comparison ......that may be due to the differences in styles represented, but that's just how I see it.

you might very well be right on all counts. but the way I see it, unless you have an extremely strong takedown defense and ground game, you've got exactly one punch, and it had better land on the button, or you'll be on your back in a hurry wishing you'd never heard of MMA.

and again, this is assuming the the guy trying to take you down has absolutely zero boxing skills, and has no idea how to block a punch.

it's an interesting debate, but we'll never really settle it, because regardless of how good you think these boxers are, there's no way they'd be stupid enough to step into the octagon with boxing as their only skill.

[Frankee]

you might very well be right on all counts. but the way I see it, unless you have an extremely strong takedown defense and ground game, you've got exactly one punch, and it had better land on the button, or you'll be on your back in a hurry wishing you'd never heard of MMA.

and again, this is assuming the the guy trying to take you down has absolutely zero boxing skills, and has no idea how to block a punch.

it's an interesting debate, but we'll never really settle it, because regardless of how good you think these boxers are, there's no way they'd be stupid enough to step into the octagon with boxing as their only skill.

I, for one, would pay money to see it.

Bring on Gaspar St. Putrid or whatever his name is. :boxer

[fetishfrog]

I don't think MMA fighters are hairdressers....or anything effeminate. I've seen some real skill in the octagon.

But, on average, I see far more speed, better reaction time, and overall better conditioning from top-tier boxers like Pacquiao. I don't see anybody getting within two feet of these guys without a bullwhip-quick punch landing on someones chin, eye-socket, snotbox, etc.

To me, MMA looks slow and clumsy in comparison ......that may be due to the differences in styles represented, but that's just how I see it.

I think a reason you see the 'clumsiness' you noted has much to do with what Jarrett touched on above...you have to take into account the possibility of takedowns/kicks/etc. when striking using traditional boxing techniques, so inevitably you'll need to adjust your stance and timing.

If you want an apt comparison between top tier boxers and top tier MMA guys in terms of conditioning, quickness, skills sets, etc. check out the following:

GSP: explosive take-down speed and insane conditioning
BJ Penn: whip quick transitions in his BJJ game
Fedor: Overall game plus in his ground game (especially with regard to his movement and transition from submission to submission) he moves like a lightweight even though he is a heavyweight.
Anderson Silva: Insanely gifted kickboxing skills
Lyoto Machida: Really quick at getting in, causing damage, and getting out.

Personally I'd love to see some top tier boxers jump in the MMA game and go at it.

[DamianP]

Why on earth would a top level boxer want to switch to MMA?

It would be like Lance Armstrong entering a BMX race.

Damian.

[jimfog]

Why on earth would a top level boxer want to switch to MMA?

It would be like Lance Armstrong entering a BMX race.

More like the X games!

[fetishfrog]

Why on earth would a top level boxer want to switch to MMA?

It would be like Lance Armstrong entering a BMX race.

Damian.

If MMA organizations grow to the point where their salary payouts can compete with/exceed those of pro boxing, it'll happen.

[DamianP]

If MMA organizations grow to the point where their salary payouts can compete with/exceed those of pro boxing, it'll happen.


That would be a terrible shame.

Damian.

[DamianP]

More like the X games!


Perfect.

Why ride the Alpe D`huez when you can jump over some mounds of dirt in a car park!

Damian.

[fetishfrog]

That would be a terrible shame.

Damian.

I disagree, but to each his own.

[Arcane-Inc]

If MMA organizations grow to the point where their salary payouts can compete with/exceed those of pro boxing, it'll happen.

This is going to happen. If you add up the totals for UFC pay per views in a year they have already exceeded boxing in some years and probably will continue to do so as the sport grows. The pay per views for the big shows in boxing still beat the big UFC shows, but the UFC has far more shows which have moved more pay per views TOTAL per year. The dollars are not there yet, but in the past year the UFC has increased their pay per view price so that may happen.

Here is some info from 2007 (2008 info is probably out there if someone wants to find it):

The following is a brief breakdown of how well the UFC and HBO Boxing did in 2007 by way of PPV numbers. Obviously the popularity of both sports runs deeper than simply pay-per-view figures. I couldn’t locate a list of HBO numbers as far as each event went, but you have to take into account that De La Hoya and Mayweather are probably responsible for a majority of the PPV buys. Similarly, Rampage and Chuck had a lot to do with boosting the UFC numbers. The UFC events combined for 4,885,000 views totaling $194.5 million. UFC 70 & 75 were SPIKE events. Boxing did 4,795,000 PPV’s for $239.75.
UFC 67 – Silva v. Lutter – 400,000

UFC 68 – Slyvia v. Couture – 540,000

UFC 69 – St. Pierre v. Serra – 400,000

UFC 71 – Liddell v. Jackson II – 675,000

UFC 72 – Franklin v. Okami – 200,000

UFC 73 – Ortiz v. Evans – 425,000

UFC 74 – Couture v. Gonzaga – 520,000

UFC 76 – Liddell v. Jardine – 475,000

UFC 77 – Franklin v. Silva II – 325,000

UFC 78 – Evans v. Bisbing – 325,000

UFC 79 – Liddell v. Silva – 600,000
4,885,000 views totaling $194.5 million


HBO Boxing – 4,795,000 (total) among main events including:

Mayweather v. Hatton

Cotto v. Mosley

Pacquiao v. Barrera

Hopkins v. Wright

De La Hoya v. Mayweather

Cotto v. Judah
Boxing did 4,795,000 PPV’s for $239.75.

Source:

http://bigsteez.wordpress.com/2008/02/20/2007-boxing-and-ufc-ppv-numbers/

[furry]

Perfect.

Why ride the Alpe D`huez when you can jump over some mounds of dirt in a car park!

Damian.

so you're making distinctions based on elegance and gracefulness regarding two 'sports', the goal of which is to bash the opponent's skull in until they give up?

right....

[Audioholic]

Strange that some people think boxers are these lightning fast strikers that an MMA guy would not know what to do with. I guess they don't realize that there are already plenty of fighters who have professional boxing experience fighting in MMA already. Factor in that a boxer is used to bigger gloves, which don't hurt as much getting stuck with, and also provide more cover up space, making it easier to protect. Give them some 4 oz gloves, actually get connected a few times, and realize that hey, I can't put these giant pads in my face to cover up, oh crap, and those 4 oz gloves cut through thier guard. Can't hide behind gloves in MMA. ITs a different world and I give MMA trained fighter the edge.

Boxers have quickness and power, MMA fighting has quickness and power. One sport does not trump the other in these areas, most MMA fighters have trained in western style boxing as well. Just the fact that MMA has so many tools in their bag, its a no contest for me. I think those who think a boxer would land only one punch and a MMA fighter wouldn't know what to do is just funny. Have you seen how some of them look after a fight? they take a beating.

Boxing = 2 hands

MMA = 2 hands, 2 legs, 2 elbows, 2 knees. (BTW the legs have much more power then the hands)

[M1K3999]

No holds barred , GSP would win. Ya sure pac man would out box his ass any day but GSP would take him out in all the other styles of fighting.