Taylor 814CE vs 812CE vs Martin OMC Aura

[jzucker]

Excuse the ignorant post. I'm a jazz guitarist (author of sheets of sound for guitar) and am looking for a nice acoustic guitar with cutaway under $2k. Primarily to be used with thumb-pick / fingerstyle doing arrangements of beatles / pop tunes ala Stephen King, Laurence Juber, etc.

Any thoughts on these (or other ideas) would be appreciated. I want to buy used due to my poor track record of keeping stuff...

[Jef Bardsley]

Well, this is what I do for a living, and I really don't want to put any ideas in your head. :)

First, you need to go out and play a few, and decide if you like the Taylor or the Martin sound better. There's a very distinct difference, and one or the other is likely to suit your playing style, or come closer to 'the sound in your head'. You might find the difference in neck shape even more compelling, given your background.

The pickups are equally good, and equally flawed. If you're not going to be playing out with a band, you could skip it and save some money. A mic will always sound better. (admittedly, it's hard to fund a cutaway w/o electronics - the acoustic world is divided into Traditonalists who won't touch a CE model, and Moderns who want both (whether they need them or not ;)))

That said, you really can't go wrong with either. They're both excellent guitars. Myself, I like the 14s better than the 12s, as a rule, and 000s better than 00s. Just a wee bit more bass pleases me (10s/Dreadnoughts have way too much). The OM's finger board is too wide for me. but for fingerstyle, you might like it.

HTH,
Jef


Naturally, as soon as I hit "Post"... since you might turn the guitar over quickly, forget about a cutaway only model. It would be harder to sell.

To some extent, Taylors can be thought of as PRSi, and Martins as Gibson equivalents. Taylors are a modern design built with modern methods, and they have marvelous consistency. Martins have much better QC than Gibson, but they're still 'old school' and there's more variation between several guitars of the same model. When you find a good one, however, you understand that nearly 200 years of experience does count for something.

With that in mind, you might consider some of the Martins above the 'Standard' level. You'll get better woods, and construction by some of the older workers. It can really make a difference. Harder to find a cutaway, perhaps, but personally, I don't find cutways on acoustics to be that much help. We've had some outstanding examples of the Eric Clapton model, for instance, and the earlier runs are selling used for at or just above your price point. Also, Taylor makes Limited Editions every year, and again, they often seem like they get special attention as well as special woods. Last year's 714 Koa was a knockout.

[jzucker]

I have to have a cutaway. I do too much work above the 12th fret. Regarding pickups, I loved the Fishman Matrix in the Composite Acoustic Xi guitar I had. Unfortunately, while that guitar sounded fabulous through a FRFR system, it was poor acoustically. Otherwise, that would have been the perfect guitar. I also have a tacoma roadking with that pickup system in it and it too sounds great electrically. My son's 314ce sounds great too through an amp. I'm not interested in mic'ing the sound. Part of the "electric" sound I like involves the pickup.

[Jef Bardsley]

Hmmm.... have you considered a Taylor T-5?

Taylor gave up claiming they were both an acoustic and an electric guitar, which is a good thing, because they fall short in both categories. However, they are a "best of both worlds" guitar, and it sort of sounds like they might combine the very features you're looking for. They're much more "acoustic" than a jazz guitar, much more "electric" than an electric-acoustic.

[jzucker]

Hmmm.... have you considered a Taylor T-5?

Taylor gave up claiming they were both an acoustic and an electric guitar, which is a good thing, because they fall short in both categories. However, they are a "best of both worlds" guitar, and it sort of sounds like they might combine the very features you're looking for. They're much more "acoustic" than a jazz guitar, much more "electric" than an electric-acoustic.

If I were to go that route, I'd go with the Turner RS6 or better yet, I'd have kept my Composite Acoustic Xi. That CA Xi was the best sounding amplified acoustic I've ever had (for what I do...)

[Beagle1]

This is a little bit more than $2K, but would give you exactly what you're looking for:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169445

I've played a number of these Laurence Juber signature guitars from Martin, and they've all been remarkably good. This one looks like it's from the 2nd run they did of OM-18 LJ's (Adi/Mahogany). I've got one from the first run of OM-18 LJ's in 2003 and it's a great instrument for fingerstyle.

For Taylors, I actually like the 714 a bit better for fingerstyle than the 814. The cedar/rosewood combo gives a really fast attack and works nicely with a light touch. Larrivee is also worth a look...I think they're tops in the under $2K price range.

[jzucker]

That does look cool but I'm afraid that the artist series are always $500 more than the others due to the artist deal. Love Juber but don't want to pay extra for his signature on the axe!

What's the diff between the 712CE and the 714CE? other than size or is that it?

I had a larrivee lv9e and my son had an lv10e. They were fantastic but the ibeam pickup system wasn't very good. I'd have to replace it.

This is a little bit more than $2K, but would give you exactly what you're looking for:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169445

I've played a number of these Laurence Juber signature guitars from Martin, and they've all been remarkably good. This one looks like it's from the 2nd run they did of OM-18 LJ's (Adi/Mahogany). I've got one from the first run of OM-18 LJ's in 2003 and it's a great instrument for fingerstyle.

For Taylors, I actually like the 714 a bit better for fingerstyle than the 814. The cedar/rosewood combo gives a really fast attack and works nicely with a light touch. Larrivee is also worth a look...I think they're tops in the under $2K price range.

[Beagle1]

That does look cool but I'm afraid that the artist series are always $500 more than the others due to the artist deal. Love Juber but don't want to pay extra for his signature on the axe!

What's the diff between the 712CE and the 714CE? other than size or is that it?

I had a larrivee lv9e and my son had an lv10e. They were fantastic but the ibeam pickup system wasn't very good. I'd have to replace it.

I think the Juber sig is definitely worth a few extra bills. For one thing, they use better quality woods on these guitars than their standard models, and the top is Adirondack Spruce (stiffer and gives more headroom). There are many other custom tweaks on it (Waverly tuners, bone nut and saddle, etc), so you are not just paying for Juber's name on the label inside the guitar.

As for 712 vs 714, as far as I know the difference really is mainly the size (grand concert vs grand auditorium), although the 712 also has a shorter scale length (24-7/8 vs 25.5 on the 714). I like the extra bass in the 714 but the 712 is probably a bit easier to play.

As for the Larrivee's...yeah, the iBeam is not exactly the greatest. Install a DTAR Wavelength or Multisource pickup in there and it will sound killer.

[jzucker]

I heard from someone in the know that the aura is the same guitar and that the artist gets $500 from each sale. Not sure the extras are worth the dough.

According to the tayor website the 712 is spruce and the 714 is cedar.

Maybe I should be looking at the LV-5 with the idea of installing a good pickup...

I think the Juber sig is definitely worth a few extra bills. For one thing, they use better quality woods on these guitars than their standard models, and the top is Adirondack Spruce (stiffer and gives more headroom). There are many other custom tweaks on it (Waverly tuners, bone nut and saddle, etc), so you are not just paying for Juber's name on the label inside the guitar.

As for 712 vs 714, as far as I know the difference really is mainly the size (grand concert vs grand auditorium), although the 712 also has a shorter scale length (24-7/8 vs 25.5 on the 714). I like the extra bass in the 714 but the 712 is probably a bit easier to play.

As for the Larrivee's...yeah, the iBeam is not exactly the greatest. Install a DTAR Wavelength or Multisource pickup in there and it will sound killer.

[Beagle1]

Tha Martin Aura models are all bolt-on necks, whereas the Juber has their traditional neck joint. Typically, an Adi top is about a $500 upcharge just on it's own. The biggest thing on the Juber is just the responsiveness of the top...the guitar itself is so light it feels like it's made of balsa wood. The Aura's are decent guitars but they are not in the same class tonally as the Jubers.

Not sure about $500 going to the artist...sometimes they specify that some proceeds go to a charity. The original run of Martin OM-18 LJ's had the Mr Holland's Opus Foundation specified as the charity.

Yeah, I guess on the Taylor 712's now they are only doing Englemann Spruce for the top, which is actually pretty close to cedar in terms of being a responsive wood for fingerstyle. They use to offer a choice on the 714 between Englemann or Cedar top.

All things considered, Larrivee with your choice of pickup is a great choice.

[jzucker]

i actually don't mind the bolt-on neck. And the super thin top may be a liability for live performance. Sometimes the super boutiquey guitars don't make for the most practical instruments.

[Matticus]

My favorites Taylors for fingerstyle have cedar tops (514ce, 714ce). The 514ce features mahogany, whereas the 714ce features Indian rosewood back and sides. The 800 series just look prettier to me more than anything else. They seem to have the best balance of warmth and articulation with the right amount of immediacy.

Larrivee is sometimes considered a tonal compromise between the Martin and Taylor sound spectrum but I am only familiar with their dreadnoughts and have no experience with their cutaways.

[franksguitar]

I have an 814CE with the Expression system and is a wonderful guitar to play and has great tonality with spruce top & rosewood back and sides. I have also played a friend's 714CE and also a wonderful guitar

[Sunil]

Hey Jack,

You might want to check out the Taylor 710CE, with Englemann Spruce top and rosewood back and sides. Very balanced guitar with a more mellow attack. Sounds great for flatpicking and fingerpicking, and sounds really nice unplugged or amplified. I had one; sold it last year. Great guitar, but I'm just more in the Gibson/Martin camp. Nevertheless, I think it's a good choice for your stated needs. You should be able to find a used one for under $2G. If I remember correctly, the Engelmann Spruce top became the standard option after 2004.

Cheers,

-- Sunil

[jzucker]

Hi Sunil. I don't want a dreadnought.

[Sunil]

PM Sent. I have an acoustic you might be interested in.

-- Sunil

[jspax7]

While the Taylor 12 series is a nice compact fingerstyle guitar, I personally prefer the 14 series. More open sounding, more versatile. I don't care for the Fishman transducers or the expression system. I have the Fishman, but installed a K&K Pure Western. It actually sounds like an acoustic when I plug in. I prefer the playability of the Taylor as I'm primarily an electric player these days.

Lots of used 14 series Taylor's in your price range. Good luck with your search.

[louparte]

I've recorded a lot with a friend's 814ce. It is a fantastic guitar.
If you can get one in good condition <$2k - buy it.

Also -- see if you can pick up a Guild F65ce.
Hard to find - but I like them even better than the 814ce.

[jzucker]

i just bought a larrivee LV09. I had one before and really loved it though I didn't care for their pickup very much. Worse comes to worse, I'll install a fishman matrix which I really like.