Have you ever come away from a situation looking like the bad guy? [Archive]

TeeVee

11-25-2009, 02:10 AM

Ok, so I am taking my Martin HD-28v home after a minor touch up by a luthier post K&K pure western mini installation (my work with the drill was effective, but not overly pretty).

The trip home is via a 35 minute train ride. I arrive early to secure a seat, and to ensure that I am comfortable and that the guitar is comfortable (i.e. low to the ground and away from stray feet).
For this to occur required me to take up 2 seats by positioning the neck under my legs and the body about where legs would be if there were a person sitting next to me.

The carriage fills quickly, but is not to capacity. 30 seconds before departure a man enters the carriage and gestures to me if he can sit next to me. I ask him “how long are your legs?” (implying that if he were a tall man, which he wasn’t, he may just get away with sitting in the seat leaving enough room under his legs as to not be touching the case), to which I get no reply. I then say to him, “there is a guitar there worth $4,000 (that’s in Aussie dollars by the way) that I don’t want you sitting on”. He replies “there are supposed to be enough seats for everyone!” I don’t reply, and merely go back to listening to music. I neglect to mention to him that there are other seats on the carriage, of which I am sure he would be able to see for himself if he had bothered to look. Instead, he takes a seat on the ground near the carriage doors, as if to be spiteful.

So, I come away looking like a complete prick by everyone who heard the conversation. I admit that I could have handled it better, and was a bit of a smart ass. I guess that I don’t suffer fools lightly, and was personally offended by this man considering the ample seating situation. Let me also make clear that I don’t appreciate passengers taking up more room than they need, particularly on packed trains. In this instance however, I feel I was justified as per reasons mentioned, just that I didn’t feel like a model citizen afterwards.

ChmpgnSupernover

11-25-2009, 03:03 AM

mojo sent

rob2001

11-25-2009, 03:37 AM

If there were other seats available, screw em! The guitar is safe!!!!

I go through life trying not to tick people off but it happens sometimes. Don't let it get you down.

Mike R.

11-25-2009, 04:14 AM

Sounds like a Seinfeld episode.

StompBoxBlues

11-25-2009, 04:17 AM

If there were other seats, I would have just moved.Not saying I'm nicer, but it just would have been no big deal.

That said, people nowdays tend to put their backpacks, etc. on the seat next to them, and that does NOT fly. Sorry, but if I am paying for a ticket, an inanimate object is not about to stop me from sitting in one (but of course, I would look for seats available to avoid a hassle).
Trains usually have overhead compartments, and there is the aisle as well (just means you have to watch out if people are walking up), etc.

PUCKBOY99

11-25-2009, 04:32 AM

F*ck him ! :D

rob2001

11-25-2009, 04:36 AM

If there were other seats, I would have just moved.

(but of course, I would look for seats available to avoid a hassle).

So, which is it????

EDIT to add, I mean, that guy was being a knob if there were other seats available......should we give into knobs just to avoid a hassle?

amigo30

11-25-2009, 05:03 AM

Better communication could have produced a better result. I probably would have thought of you as a jerk given the dialog. "how long are your legs?"

Guitar Josh

11-25-2009, 05:08 AM

I guess that I don’t suffer fools lightly, and was personally offended by this man considering the ample seating situation. Let me also make clear that I don’t appreciate passengers taking up more room than they need, particularly on packed trains. In this instance however, I feel I was justified as per reasons mentioned, just that I didn’t feel like a model citizen afterwards.

As a daily rider of public transportation, I can say without a doubt you were NOT justified. You were taking up two seats, period. That's flat out rude. He's not a fool for wanting to sit down on the train. It doesn't matter why he wanted to sit there. It's not your train, you get ONE seat. Put the guitar on your lap, sit on the outside seat, whatever, you get ONE.

The people that thought you were rude were dead on. I see it daily on the subway - folks with large packages thinking they are special and get two seats, or won't move from the outside seat to the inner one, or block the aisles with their suitcases the size of a small car. These kinds of people express a sense of entitlement that disgusts me.

You handled the situation poorly and to try and justify it by calling the other guy a fool makes it worse. If you felt the animosity of the rest of the passengers after the incident, your moral compass was pointing very straight.

rob2001

11-25-2009, 05:21 AM

As a daily rider of public transportation, I can say without a doubt you were NOT justified. You were taking up two seats, period. That's flat out rude. He's not a fool for wanting to sit down on the train. It doesn't matter why he wanted to sit there. It's not your train, you get ONE seat. Put the guitar on your lap, sit on the outside seat, whatever, you get ONE.

The people that thought you were rude were dead on. I see it daily on the subway - folks with large packages thinking they are special and get two seats, or won't move from the outside seat to the inner one, or block the aisles with their suitcases the size of a small car. These kinds of people express a sense of entitlement that disgusts me.

You handled the situation poorly and to try and justify it by calling the other guy a fool makes it worse. If you felt the animosity of the rest of the passengers after the incident, your moral compass was pointing very straight.

But there were other seats available. I'd think if that were the last seat, the OP would have done what you said...put it on his lap or something....

CharlieS

11-25-2009, 05:26 AM

StompBoxBlues

11-25-2009, 05:38 AM

So, which is it????

EDIT to add, I mean, that guy was being a knob if there were other seats available......should we give into knobs just to avoid a hassle?

Well...for myself, unless I bought a ticket for my guitar (pretty sure none of us do that on a train) right at the start, I'm "in the wrong" in taking up more seats than I paid for. So yeah, it isn't "giving in" it is doing the right thing. The other person wants to sit there, maybe it is stupid, but you got the rest of the ride taking up a SEAT (which is for people, people get tired, inanimate objects don't) extra while a real person isn't.

I don't get the idea the situation was for sure there were extra seats available, it seemed like it was stated as "I think" or "somewhere else" in the train, so without making a big deal, yeah...I would move.
I would use the overheads though, or the aisle for the guitar which is safe enough, and then not have to move though.

In any case, if a person with a ticket wants to sit down, you really are not on solid ground claiming an extra seat because you are carrying an expensive guitar. IF that is the case, use a car...

ChmpgnSupernover

11-25-2009, 05:42 AM

I knew you'd be needing that mojo

rob2001

11-25-2009, 05:46 AM

Well...for myself, unless I bought a ticket for my guitar (pretty sure none of us do that on a train) right at the start, I'm "in the wrong" in taking up more seats than I paid for. So yeah, it isn't "giving in" it is doing the right thing. The other person wants to sit there, maybe it is stupid, but you got the rest of the ride taking up a SEAT (which is for people, people get tired, inanimate objects don't) extra while a real person isn't.

I don't get the idea the situation was for sure there were extra seats available, it seemed like it was stated as "I think" or "somewhere else" in the train, so without making a big deal, yeah...I would move.
I would use the overheads though, or the aisle for the guitar which is safe enough, and then not have to move though.

In any case, if a person with a ticket wants to sit down, you really are not on solid ground claiming an extra seat because you are carrying an expensive guitar. IF that is the case, use a car...

I suppose, in principle, the OP was wrong, and without being there it's hard to know the alternative seating that was open....or not

Thats the question really. If there were other seats open, this guy just didn't like the fact that someone took two seats and chose to make an issue of it.

If he honestly didn't see other open seats, maybe the OP was inconsiderate.

The Golden Boy

11-25-2009, 05:47 AM

I don't get the idea the situation was for sure there were extra seats available, it seemed like it was stated as "I think" or "somewhere else" in the train, so without making a big deal, yeah...I would move.

According to him...

I neglect to mention to him that there are other seats on the carriage, of which I am sure he would be able to see for himself if he had bothered to look.

Guitar Josh

11-25-2009, 05:48 AM

But there were other seats available. I'd think if that were the last seat, the OP would have done what you said...put it on his lap or something....

It doesn't matter why someone wants to sit where they do. It's an empty seat, they are entitled to it. About the only time you can pull this is if the entire rest of the train is empty and some guy wants to sit next to you. Then you are justified, because they are just being weird.

What's worse is that instead of being a courteous public transportation rider and appealing to the guy's politeness and saying "would you mind taking that seat, I've got my guitar and it's going to be hard to make you comfortable?" he ignored him like he was some leper. That was rude, and like the guy above said, if that happened in NYC, DC, Chicago, etc. that guitar would be in pieces.

Public transportation means SHARED transportation. You deal with the consequences of that. Believe me, I do on a daily basis, and could write novels on the discourteous crap I've seen.

Guitar Josh

11-25-2009, 05:50 AM

Thats the question really. If there were other seats open, this guy just didn't like the fact that someone took two seats and chose to make an issue of it.

If he honestly didn't see other open seats, maybe the OP was inconsiderate.

There could be many legitimate reasons why he wanted to sit there - close to the door, front-facing, more open space, etc. The fact is it was an open seat on a public train. You get your stuff out of the space and accommodate another rider, or at least act like a human being and briefly explain why you can't and appeal to the other riders sensibilities to find another seat.

Jarrett

11-25-2009, 05:53 AM

If you tried to pull this kinda of thing on the Long Island Railroad, your Martin would be shoved so far up your ass, you would be strumming it with your uvula.oh and to answer your question, I pretty much come awayy from every situation looking like the bad guy.This cracked me up :) I need to visit Long Island sometime, sounds like a fun place.

To the OP, how about drive your car to the luthier? Ride a bike there? Catch a ride with a friend? You have a $4000 guitar, but don't own a means of transportation?

rob2001

11-25-2009, 05:53 AM

It doesn't matter why someone wants to sit where they do. It's an empty seat, they are entitled to it. About the only time you can pull this is if the entire rest of the train is empty and some guy wants to sit next to you. Then you are justified, because they are just being weird.

What's worse is that instead of being a courteous public transportation rider and appealing to the guy's politeness and saying "would you mind taking that seat, I've got my guitar and it's going to be hard to make you comfortable?" he ignored him like he was some leper. That was rude, and like the guy above said, if that happened in NYC, DC, Chicago, etc. that guitar would be in pieces.

Public transportation means SHARED transportation. You deal with the consequences of that. Believe me, I do on a daily basis, and could write novels on the discourteous crap I've seen.

You guys are right....I digress........I don't use the train and i'm glad I don't...sounds like everyone is a knob!

OP, you are a rude S.O.B, what were you thinking????:D

Dr. Jimmy

11-25-2009, 06:18 AM

He replies “there are supposed to be enough seats for everyone!” I don’t reply, and merely go back to listening to music.

At that point I think he would've been justified in busting that guitar over your head.....

Jon Silberman

11-25-2009, 06:20 AM

tone4days

11-25-2009, 06:23 AM

have i ever? ... hmmm, lemme think ... yeah, i guess i kinda have ... not a lot ... but it has happened that i come away looking like the bad guy .... fortunately only on times when i was the bad guy ... you know ... kinda like what you did on the train

bbarnard

11-25-2009, 07:07 AM

All the time. I'm in management.

Rob Sharer

11-25-2009, 07:17 AM

The "other open seats" thing doesn't mean squat. The gentleman in question was perfectly within his rights to ask for the seat next to you, and it was churlish to deny it to him, guitar or no. Next time, do the right thing and move your case.

Rob

Guitar Josh

11-25-2009, 07:21 AM

You guys are right....I digress........I don't use the train and i'm glad I don't...sounds like everyone is a knob!

Consider yourself lucky. And you are right, plenty of folks are. I have noticed just a general lack of courtesy in all walks of life. People have stopped thanking me for holding the door open for them, giving up my seat on the train to an older, pregnant or disabled person, standing aside for them, basically any act of human courtesy is ignored. No wonder people stop doing it, no one seems to appreciate the gesture anymore.

stratzrus

11-25-2009, 07:23 AM

Stand the case between your legs and hold onto the handle.That's what I would have done.

But I'm a big guy and have mastered the "I'm having a bad life (forget bad day) and am just waiting for an excuse" look. No one, and I mean no one, ever wants to sit next to me.

The one guy that did sit next to me during the last two years received such a look of disgust and contempt that he moved within 30 seconds.

It's a big city thing...looking like the bad guy is a finely developed skill.

Guitar Josh

11-25-2009, 07:29 AM

That's what I would have done.

But I'm a big guy and have mastered the "I'm having a bad life (forget bad day) and am just waiting for an excuse" look. No one, and I mean no one, ever wants to sit next to me.

The one guy that did sit next to me during the last two years received such a look of disgust and contempt that he moved within 30 seconds.

It's a big city thing...looking like the bad guy is a finely developed skill.

Strat, I'm a pretty big guy myself, but I've come to realize one uncertain truth in this world - there is always someone bigger and meaner than you, and you will probably regret the day you meet him.

BTW, I would have simply smiled at your look and gone back to watching my iPod :)

Cpt. Picard

11-25-2009, 07:43 AM

Shoulda busted it out and strummed him some love songs.

rob2001

11-25-2009, 07:51 AM

Consider yourself lucky. And you are right, plenty of folks are. I have noticed just a general lack of courtesy in all walks of life. People have stopped thanking me for holding the door open for them, giving up my seat on the train to an older, pregnant or disabled person, standing aside for them, basically any act of human courtesy is ignored. No wonder people stop doing it, no one seems to appreciate the gesture anymore.

I wonder, i'm thinkin location has a lot to do with it. I live in the country between a small town, a bigger town, and i'm not far from Milwaukee.

When I go shopping in the small town, nearly everyone is very courteous and gracious when when interacting. Holding doors is common and I always get a thank you. People give up their place in line if they have a cart full and I have a few items, and vise/versa.

The bigger city and Milwaukee isn't as friendly. It's almost like if I hold a door open for someone, they are wondering what my ulterior motive is.

I still do it though, being nice freaks people out!!

StompBoxBlues

11-25-2009, 07:53 AM

According to him...

As others mentioned, to me it makes not much difference if there were other seats (if they were so plentiful, why not as I said, move...?) and I am guessing, but the word choices, I read it too, gave me a feeling that the OP assumed there were still seats...if he could SEE empty seats why wouldn't it be more natural (than asking how long someones legs are...do you know how long yours are? I don't on mine) to point to them and ask "could you just take one of those?".

That's one thing. The other is, it is a little hard to believe there were other seats visible there and then, as why would the guy sit on the ground or even bother making a fuss?

It's just the wording, but I got the impression the OP assumed there were more, and though he stated it, it just makes no sense...

I know people tend to do that too..."I'm "sure" there are other empty seats"...when they aren't. If he had his guitar jamming him, and from a sitting position on trains I know, it isn't easy to see who's sitting where while in a seat...plus he couldn't see if children (who's head wouldn't be visible) and short people were in a seat or not...

etc.

Guitar Josh

11-25-2009, 07:56 AM

I wonder, i'm thinkin location has a lot to do with it. I live in the country between a small town, a bigger town, and i'm not far from Milwaukee.

When I go shopping in the small town, nearly everyone is very courteous and gracious when when interacting. Holding doors is common and I always get a thank you. People give up their place in line if they have a cart full and I have a few items, and vise/versa.

The bigger city and Milwaukee isn't as friendly. It's almost like if I hold a door open for someone, they are wondering what my ulterior motive is.

I still do it though, being nice freaks people out!!

I know what you mean. I tried for a day to stop doing that, but my head kept screaming at me to do the right thing and be a nice person. I guess my mom raised me right. So no matter how rude, I'll still be the guy holding open the door or giving up my seat, because the guilt my mom put there won't leave me alone!!

stratzrus

11-25-2009, 09:11 AM

Strat, I'm a pretty big guy myself, but I've come to realize one uncertain truth in this world - there is always someone bigger and meaner than you, and you will probably regret the day you meet him.
Guys who are bigger and meaner than me don't want to sit next to me. They want more space. ;)

Really, nobody wants to sit next to me. I must look pretty disturbed to the outside world. Even when I'm in a good mood people ask me what's wrong.

Guitar Josh

11-25-2009, 09:13 AM

Guys who are bigger and meaner than me don't want to sit next to me. They want more space. ;)

*:p*

Bluedawg

11-25-2009, 09:33 AM

The nearest train station (if you want to call a parking lot by the train tracks a train station) is a 35 minute drive from here ...

the train gets in around 11PM at night and comes only 3 times a week ...

:p

Midnight Lady

11-25-2009, 09:38 AM

It wasn't your guitar that caused the problem, it was your attitude.

You could have explained the exact situation to him apologetically and asked if there were any other seats left on the train (this might have caused him to look around).

Or you could have sat the guitar on the seat and STOOD UP.

Or taken another mode of transportation.

Doug H

11-25-2009, 09:45 AM

:facepalm

Thank God I don't ride public transportation...

Jon C

11-25-2009, 09:56 AM

haven't we all (come off looking like a prick) at some point?

here, I feel your pain but am with those who say you have one seat and I would have probably taken the aisle seat, with the guitar case held in the aisle next to me or between my legs, as uncomfy as that would be...

you only get half a loaf here, though since there were other seats & he could have easily found one if I understand the situation.

Jon C

11-25-2009, 10:00 AM

Guys who are bigger and meaner than me don't want to sit next to me. They want more space. ;)

Really, nobody wants to sit next to me. I must look pretty disturbed to the outside world. Even when I'm in a good mood people ask me what's wrong.

not to drift the thread, but a true story:

when I was an criminal appellate lawyer about 20+ yrs. ago I saw a trial transcript in which the following question and answer were given...

ATTORNEY: (questioning the witness): What kind of mood were you in that day?

WITNESS: I was in a bad mood.

ATTY: Is there any particular reason?

WITNESS: No, man ... I'm always in a bad mood.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

:huh;)

cheers,
Jon

kurtsstuff

11-25-2009, 10:12 AM

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/kurtsstuff/3n73kb3l2ZZZZZZZZZ94k53324650a37917.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/kurtsstuff/200px-Combination_enema_and_douche_.jpg

NuSkoolTone

11-25-2009, 10:26 AM

Sorry but I don't get all the hollier than thous knocking the OP. There were OTHER SEATS available, so what the BFD? Just because some douchebag wants to sit there doesn't mean he HAS to if there are other seats.

The catch is are they CLEARLY available? We're talking about in the SAME car right? Plus I DO agree the "How long are your legs" wasn't the best way to go. Explaining you had something fragile and expensive that couldn't be crushed would have been more clear IMO.

stratzrus

11-25-2009, 11:04 AM

Just because some douchebag wants to sit there doesn't mean he HAS to if there are other seats. Is "douchebag" a euphemism for "human being"?...I'm not up on the latest lingo.

enocaster

11-25-2009, 11:10 AM

One sunny Saturday morning I was milling about at a large outdoor book sale at a public library. A volunteer (loud woman in her 50's) came up to me and asked "What's your name?" I told her my name was Curtis and she bluntly asked for my full name with no further explanation. It was early, I was probably a little hungover, I didn't like the way she was asking, and identity theft was the current hot story in the news; so I replied "Curtis none-of-your-beeswax" She proceeded to loudly bitch me out saying she had found a drivers license, the photo looked like me and was just trying to be a good samaritan and help out a stranger. All 20 or so people within earshot (mostly peers of this lady, natch) are now listening and giving me death stares. I looked in my wallet - confirmed my license was accounted for, so I told her I don't like giving personal info to total strangers and tried to explain that she could have asked me any number of different questions to determine if it was mine. She wouldn't hear a word – after all, I was already a no-good jerk. She repeated her argument even more loudly (knowing she had a growing audience), this time throwing in the "your what's wrong with today's world" element for good measure. She was so quick and effective in painting this picture of her as the hero and me as the villain that I guess she had much experience in this type of confrontation. I apologized for my poor word choice, but stood my ground on not telling her my name and asked how she'd feel if I asked her home address and social security number. She knew she had already won the public-opinion, so she huffed off in a cloud of self-righteousness.

The moral: Taking the high-ground will keep you from looking like the jerk, especially when confronted with rude, pushy, or unreasonable people.

Brock

11-25-2009, 11:47 AM

To the OP.... Would youhave let someone sit there if the person was a hot girl. Friendly and cute? Could show what your character is.

stratzrus

11-25-2009, 11:53 AM

Would you have let someone sit there if the person was a hot girl. Friendly and cute? Could show what your character is.Absolutely.

What's that say about my character? That I'm a horndog?

Guilty as charged.

jcmark611

11-25-2009, 02:00 PM

I got fired from my last job because I didn't receive a fax. Try that one.

Scott Auld

11-25-2009, 02:37 PM

loudboy

11-25-2009, 02:49 PM

I think you're biggest mistake was announcing to everyone on the train that you had a guitar worth $4K...

Try that on a NYC Subway and see if you get out alive. <g>

RonH

11-25-2009, 03:02 PM

This is why you will never find me on a bus, train, or anything. I like the privacy of my car.

TeeVee

11-25-2009, 03:08 PM

I knew you'd be needing that mojo

Thanks Bradd...

As others mentioned, to me it makes not much difference if there were other seats (if they were so plentiful, why not as I said, move...?) and I am guessing, but the word choices, I read it too, gave me a feeling that the OP assumed there were still seats...if he could SEE empty seats why wouldn't it be more natural (than asking how long someones legs are...do you know how long yours are? I don't on mine) to point to them and ask "could you just take one of those?".

That's one thing. The other is, it is a little hard to believe there were other seats visible there and then, as why would the guy sit on the ground or even bother making a fuss?

It's just the wording, but I got the impression the OP assumed there were more, and though he stated it, it just makes no sense...

I know people tend to do that too..."I'm "sure" there are other empty seats"...when they aren't. If he had his guitar jamming him, and from a sitting position on trains I know, it isn't easy to see who's sitting where while in a seat...plus he couldn't see if children (who's head wouldn't be visible) and short people were in a seat or not...

etc.

I am 6ft 4", therefore I have a good veiw of the seats, even if there are small children there. There were forward and rear facing seats (i know myself that I cannot sit rear facing - get motion sickness, so if this dude was delicate about that then it wasn't an issue). I guess my natural reaction was to dish out a smart ass remark, since this guy did not even bother to look for other seating (the seat next to me was the first empty seat he arrived at after entering the carriage). I was not worried about retribution from this guy, or others that caught the convo about the dollar value of the instrument - just saying I admit I could have handled it better, but definately don't agree that I should have given it up just because he wanted to sit there and not in another available seat.

To the OP.... Would youhave let someone sit there if the person was a hot girl. Friendly and cute? Could show what your character is.

I think a hot girl would have had the common sense not to even ask (see ample seating situation).

Let me also pose this. If I were an obese man, or overly large sized man (which I am not - except for height) and through sheer physics took up two seats because of my size - would you ask me to make room? or would I need to purchase two tickets for the ride?

razorbladeSD

11-25-2009, 04:09 PM

I wore a black cowboy hat out to a club one night, and someone told me I looked like Lee Van Cleef.

Does that count?

LHanson

11-25-2009, 05:47 PM

I love suburbia.

Frankee

11-25-2009, 06:14 PM

TeeVee

11-25-2009, 06:45 PM

This is the way I look at it.......you'll never see that guy or any of those folks ever again.

So who gives two squirts?

We're all dicks every once in a while.......as long as you're not a dick 24/7 there's nothing wrong with being assertive once in a while.....especially when you're making sure some jack-knob isn't wrecking your baby.

Seeing that you felt bad enough that it compelled you to post about it here, I think you shouldn't beat yourself up too much over it.

Thanks Frankee,

I agree with your sentiments, in particular the assertive bit.
Yes, I will probably see that guy and other regulars on the 5:14 pm train home, but I am cool with that. I will welcome him with open arms as I usually travel light and only take up 1 space. ;)