how drastic of a change does a speaker make?

[hithere]

hey guys, like always you always help me out, through a lot of my repetitive questions.

Anyway I have been playing various fender blackface amps for the last 4 years, and ever since my drive sound has been a struggle.

The cleans are wonderful, but my current princeton reverb is a real struggle to get a pleasing drive sound out of, especially with single coils.

Ever since I played a tiny terror at the store, I have been thinking its time for me to start spending my money on some brit amps, hell I started on a marshall mg!

as you guys have probably heard me say a million times I love ryan adams tone, and was about to spend the money on a tone tubby alnico speaker, and though I know it will darken the amp, I still prefer his humbucker tone to his strat tone. Which is definitely just more of a circuit thing.

anyway I am thinking about possibly picking up a 2x12 orange instead,

I got my eyes on an ac 30/orange tiny terror/ad30tc/ and a marshall for the future.

so I am thinking perhaps it's time to stop spending money on something that's not working out for me.

ps. I know pete townshend uses v30s (like the orange cab) in his fender amp, perhaps the princeton may sound interesting through some v30s?

[zoooombiex]

very drastic. i was very surprised when I learned that for myself. that said you can also chase your tail in circles with all the options out there.

as to the tone tubby, the new stuff is not dark. only the early runs were dark (or ones special ordered to be that way). IMO they work very will with Fender amps.

[Steve73]

Yeah, probably the most drastic change you can make to an amp, more than tubes for sure IME. I think an extension cab with a Princeton would be a great way to make it 'bigger' or a more pleasing drive tone. Maybe Blues or G12H30's?

[mesa/kramer]

9acguJjsgDg

[xntrick]

made a HUGE difference when i upgraded the stock speaker in my TM60 to a wizard, it made the 2nd channel(dirt) come alive in a big way...

[Jef Bardsley]

Speakers can make a big difference, but there's no speaker that will make a Fender sound like a Marshall.

[Aslan]

xntrick speaks the truth!
I upgraded my Trademark 60 with a Wizard also and the difference was amazing, it made a good amp into a great amp! Speakers really do make a significant difference.

[rob2001]

I wouldn't use the word drastic but there's a noticeable difference for sure. More than tubes, about as noticeable as a pickup swap.....all things being equal. Cabs make a big difference too.

[Dave]

Definitely drastic. Just check out the YouTube video posted above. I've owned just about every 12" guitar speaker ever made at one point or another, trust me, HUGE differences.
ps. I know pete townshend uses v30s (like the orange cab) in his fender amp, perhaps the princeton may sound interesting through some v30s?

The V30 is actually a really good choice for a BF Fender IMO. Your cleans won't be as chimey, but OD will sound so much better. It's a compromise. The V30 records amazingly well too, which is what I really like about it.

[ezyrydr]

Changing the speaker will make a big difference. You mentioned Ryan Adams, his princeton has hemp speakers in it. I recently put a Cannabis Rex in my Ampeg J20 and it made a world of difference. It was MUCH louder and the distortion was so so much better.
Also, if you're tryin to play that princeton with a band you should run it through another [bigger] cab so you're pushing more air.

Sometimes I wonder how Ryan Adams can get such a kick ass tone out of those princetons. In the studio it's just the Princeton but live he uses multiple Princetons and multiple vibroking cabs all with the hemp speakers.
Ryan's sound is a result of his old humbuckers in his Gibson (low output PAFs), a boost and a drive and then the amp(s). Right now he's using Telenordia pedals but he's used fulltone fat boost, OCD and Blues Drivers before. He also uses a lot of reverb and delay occasionally. With humbuckers and pedals the stock speaker in a PRRI will just get farty and it just can't handle that input very well. I would put a speaker in there that's rated for higher wattage or get a separate cab. If you go Alnico get one with a pretty high wattage rating because those can get fizzy when you push them too hard. A V30 is an OK option and worth a shot for sure. Plug that princeton into another cab and it'll be like night and day.

[rhythmrocker]

About as much difference as a good bowel movement in the morning.

[kelly dell]

The Weber Speaker I put in my DRRI was like NIGHT AND DAY!
I thought Weber was just another speaker like the hundreds I have went thru in the past, with very small diffrences in tone.

But... This Weber 8 ohm 25 watt F150 with "B" style cone and light dope is the most incredibly well rounded speaker I have ever heard.
Super cleans and wicked overdriven sounds. The speaker sounds like its been broken in for hundreds of hours BRAND NEW.

Worth the hundred dollars i paid for it BIG TIME!:bow

[soundchaser59]

I wouldn't use the word drastic but there's a noticeable difference for sure. More than tubes, about as noticeable as a pickup swap.....all things being equal. Cabs make a big difference too.


EXACTLY what I would have said.......

imo, Fender (the real ones, expecially the BF amps) and Tone Tubby are perfectly mated for each other. I'd be careful with the alnico stuff though, I think it's harder to dial in than the ceramics. The Tone Tubby Superboy (10 or 15) is a real sleeper, absolutely gorgeous sound......Weber Texas is another great one for that sound. But I haven't found anything that sounds better with real Fenders than TT's......OD is harder to get just right with alnico, and keep in mind the Tubby's will need a LOT more breakin than any other speaker.

[hithere]

last night I was playing my strat into my princeton on 2 or 3, (completely clean)

and man It was wonderful. But I really think it's time to move to some different amps.

I really don't like how pedals have ever been taken through any of my fenders (drive pedals that is) to me they have always been fizzy.

sure with my twin reverb I can get away with useable sounds, I had some nice drive pedals, but it doesn't feel natural or inspire me.

I was watching some pro shop guitar demos last night

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1aiHbDhhMc

I really don't care for the the drive sound of the princeton even with someone else playing, or even the deluxe it seems.

I love fenders, and the other day I got to play through a DRRI really quick with a les paul and it seemed to be a little different and smoother breakup wise, but this may be more of a circuit thing and less of a speaker thing.

[StratTone]

hey guys, like always you always help me out, through a lot of my repetitive questions.

Anyway I have been playing various fender blackface amps for the last 4 years, and ever since my drive sound has been a struggle.

The cleans are wonderful, but my current princeton reverb is a real struggle to get a pleasing drive sound out of, especially with single coils.

Ever since I played a tiny terror at the store, I have been thinking its time for me to start spending my money on some brit amps, hell I started on a marshall mg!

as you guys have probably heard me say a million times I love ryan adams tone, and was about to spend the money on a tone tubby alnico speaker, and though I know it will darken the amp, I still prefer his humbucker tone to his strat tone. Which is definitely just more of a circuit thing.

anyway I am thinking about possibly picking up a 2x12 orange instead,

I got my eyes on an ac 30/orange tiny terror/ad30tc/ and a marshall for the future.

so I am thinking perhaps it's time to stop spending money on something that's not working out for me.

ps. I know pete townshend uses v30s (like the orange cab) in his fender amp, perhaps the princeton may sound interesting through some v30s?


To me the biggest change in tone will come from a speaker change. Some will say the OT makes the biggest change but like I said "to me" the speaker makes the biggest difference.

[Gnarlly]

Huge difference (like pickup swaps in a guitar). A good speaker can make a crappy amp sound great, and a bad speaker can make a great amp sound crappy.

[mbratch]

Speakers can make a big difference, but there's no speaker that will make a Fender sound like a Marshall.
Mostly true. But when I put a Celestion Blue in my 5E3, it does make it sound a bit Marshally when overdriven. :)

[mbratch]

There was a list posted on a thread at TGP awhile back listing, in order, the items that singularly have biggest impact on tone. IIRC, speaker was at the top. Cabinet and OT were certainly up there. Tubes, of course, but not as much as people think relative to other items.

[mad dog]

Hi there:

Speakers can make a huge difference. But sounds like maybe you should be trying out some tweeds or equivalent. Have you tried the lo-power tweed twin? That might be just the ticket.
MD

[hithere]

I am actually pretty confused as I am starting to think that my particular single coil guitars might be the cause for a lot of my turmoil, I played through a marshall dsl 50 that my friend just got to day, excited it would fix my tele sound, but alas it didnt.

I am going to bargain the bigger problem is my other guitars.

I can't tell you how many drive pedals I sold because I thought it just didn't handle single coil guitars well. Now getting pure amp drive I can see it's my guitars. Going to have to investigate that.

artcore works fine.

even with my princeton the artcore is the least of my problems

[SkydogFan81]

I love my early TT AlNiCo in my BFDR! & So do most that hear it! It compresses and sounds killer at high volumes!

EXACTLY what I would have said.......

imo, Fender (the real ones, expecially the BF amps) and Tone Tubby are perfectly mated for each other. I'd be careful with the alnico stuff though, I think it's harder to dial in than the ceramics. The Tone Tubby Superboy (10 or 15) is a real sleeper, absolutely gorgeous sound......Weber Texas is another great one for that sound. But I haven't found anything that sounds better with real Fenders than TT's......OD is harder to get just right with alnico, and keep in mind the Tubby's will need a LOT more breakin than any other speaker.

[riffmeister]

Speakers & cab: LARGE effect.

[Doc W]

I don't think a change of speaker is going to give you what you want. You like the bf Fenders but you are not getting the breakup tone you like, especially with single coils. I play mainly through a Super Reverb with a Strat and a 345. The 345 will make that amp start to growl way before the the Strat does and that is because of the extra mid range punch of the humbuckers.

Recently, I saw a vid of Clapton playing through a tweed Twin with a Strat and I loved the sound so much, I rushed to the local guitar store to take a look at one. I couldn't get that delicious singing feedback no matter how loud I played it. The salesman told me try a Clapton Strat with the midrange boost and it made all the difference in the world.

Sorry to go on so long, but I think that what you need if you are going to play a Strat through a bf Fender is some kind of boost pedal for lead to give you breakup similar to what you would get with a humbucker.

[mad dog]

The right speaker swap is probably the biggest change, most bang for the buck you can get. Followed by a couple of pre-amp tube changes. I have a few amps where speaker swaps took the amp somewhere tube changing alone could not.

- Big Ben in an Ampeg Gemini
- Weber 15A150 in a Victoria 35115
- Big Ben in a Sewell Wampus Cat

[anoobis]

It's obvious that if you saw the Rivera video, the tonal differences are 'drastic'. Then you have different cab construction, woods used, straight or angled......Put it this way- the right or wrong cab and speaker can be the difference between loving your amp or hating it.

[padavis]

I am with Doc W on this. If you want to sound like something different then you might have to get something different. Speakers certainly make a difference but I think it is more or less adding or taking away major aspects of a certain style of amp... However, I am wanting a Silver Bell for my Mesa 1x12 and Rebel 20 right now cause I am convinced the Vintage 30 is not the best fit even though I know its not going to sound much different... haha gotta love the tone quest!

[goldtop4g63]

Speakers are a great way to change your tone.. My 76 Superlead sounds great through my Scumback loaded 4x12 but through my vintage 30 loaded cab I don't like it at all. But my mesa sounds great through the vintage 30 cab and the Scumback loaded cab. I would suggest try out as many amps and speakers as you can with your guitar. Eventually you will find what you like. I'm always trying different amps out.