View Full Version : DUMBLE! What are the best EL34s for them?
Mine has Russian power tubes, and I want the smoothest, sweetest sounding NOS EL34s you can get. What would they be? THANKS!! :beer
never-enough
12-22-2009, 07:41 PM
mullards!
mullards!
LOL!!!
I want ANTI Mullards! None of that glassy harsh high end that Mullards have.
Jason_86_951
12-22-2009, 07:45 PM
Find a good set of NOS 6CA7's to put in there :)
Let me check mine and see what I have in it......
:D
Hmm, Mullard EL34 have a harsh high end?
I dont think audiophiles that use them in high end audio would agree with that statement.
I would say if you can afford a Dumble amp you should buy some different EL34 such as Sylvania or GE big bottle 6ca7, a pair of RFT/Siemens (earlier production the better), a pair of early production Tesla EL34 as well and decide for yourself.
I dont know what the plate volts and screen volts are on your amp and how hot of bias is recommended by Mr. Dumble but i would think 60-65% dissipation would be a good start.
never-enough
12-22-2009, 08:03 PM
LOL!!!
I want ANTI Mullards! None of that glassy harsh high end that Mullards have.
:facepalm i forgot....
you and i like totally different types of treble frequencies.
:beer
SuperReverb2
12-22-2009, 08:07 PM
I recently re-tubed an EL34 Chieftain head for a friend of mine. Most of my experience had been with 6L6 amps so I relied on Mike at KCA NOS Tubes for some advice. His recommendation was the Siemens EL34. Not sure how they would sound in your Dumble, but they sure sounded great in the Chieftain. Very smooth, nice mids, and not harsh by any stretch of the imagination. I also used one of my Tech Tube E813CC's in V1.
:)
I ran Siemens EL-34s in my Glaswerks - sounded great and didn't negatively impact the clean tone. They were very smooth, though my amp has the hrm trimmers dialed pretty smooth anyway. They def didn't make the amp brighter in any way.
These are still reasonably priced, I think I paid $200 for a matched quad.
anais
12-22-2009, 08:12 PM
From what I have been told from Dumble owners/cloners- the power tubes are not the focal point of the 'tone' for the overdrive special. I think Gil Ayan has told me something once about the most important part being the phase inverter bias control.. conversation from a WHILE ago. The pre amp is where it shines.. try some Amperex or Tele tubes.. maybe even a mullard ECC83:rolleyes:
ANYWAY. If you have not tried Mullards in this amplifier you really should, and I am surprised, TAG, beings that you have spent a bunch of coin on this amplifier that you didnt research a good power tube that it likes :D
But lets be honest here, a good set of mullard might do you good.. try some old Tung-Sols if you havent. Tele's are always an amps best friend.. maybe some GE or Sylvanias? If you want expensive just get a set of Teles and makes some clips- Im sure you will get a few hundred posts on the thread!
Wish you the best of luck, bro.
Tag,
You need a quad of these....ou........la.........la
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/Interferon/IMG_9092.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/Interferon/IMG_9093.jpg
kimock
12-22-2009, 08:48 PM
Pictured above would be the anti-Mullard for sure. . .
PFunk
12-22-2009, 09:09 PM
Dems it, above.
Billion81
12-22-2009, 09:13 PM
Pictured above would be the anti-Mullard for sure. . .
I recall that interview with Andy Brauer about the JCM60s and 30s in VG and he specifically called out the 6CAs as being a 6L6 like version of the EL34 and that it delivered the "brown sound" better than other varieties....at least in the Marshall. Could be just the ticket TAG!
The Mullard XF2s and 4s get my nod for Marshalls. It could be cool to hear those in this amp. They could react totally different to how they would in that set up.
JJs also get a good nod of current builds.
Do you like what's in it now? Why the change?
supersonic1414
12-22-2009, 09:21 PM
How the hell would we know? You are the only one with a Dumble around here and you know that
Tag,
You need a quad of these....ou........la.........la
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/Interferon/IMG_9092.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/Interferon/IMG_9093.jpg
Pictured above would be the anti-Mullard for sure. . .
Find a good set of NOS 6CA7's to put in there :)
I recall that interview with Andy Brauer about the JCM60s and 30s in VG and he specifically called out the 6CAs as being a 6L6 like version of the EL34 and that it delivered the "brown sound" better than other varieties....at least in the Marshall. Could be just the ticket TAG!
The Mullard XF2s and 4s get my nod for Marshalls. It could be cool to hear those in this amp. They could react totally different to how they would in that set up.
JJs also get a good nod of current builds.
Do you like what's in it now? Why the change?
OK guys! You sold me. Where do I get them? maybe I should pick up a set of those AND Mullards and go between both? What aboyut telefunken power tubes? Do they make them? If so, what do they sound like? I have tons of Tele,GE, and RCA 12Ax7s
How the hell would we know? You are the only one with a Dumble around here and you know that
Oh yea, thats right! :D
:banana:banana:banana:banana:banana
kimock
12-22-2009, 09:30 PM
I recall that interview with Andy Brauer about the JCM60s and 30s in VG and he specifically called out the 6CAs as being a 6L6 like version of the EL34 and that it delivered the "brown sound" better than other varieties....at least in the Marshall. Could be just the ticket TAG!
The Mullard XF2s and 4s get my nod for Marshalls. It could be cool to hear those in this amp. They could react totally different to how they would in that set up.
JJs also get a good nod of current builds.
Do you like what's in it now? Why the change?
Yeah, that's pretty much the consensus on the Sylvania 6CA7's.
The only potential down side for the Tag application is that they're LOUD!
Try to find some of those old Mesa Boogie branded 6CA7's, the green paint ones if you can. If the paint hasn't burnt white, and you can't just wipe it off with your thumb they'll probably last forever.
I'm still running some from the early 80's. . .
johnc
12-22-2009, 09:33 PM
I like the Siemens EL34.
Billion81
12-22-2009, 09:45 PM
OK guys! You sold me. Where do I get them? maybe I should pick up a set of those AND Mullards and go between both? What aboyut telefunken power tubes? Do they make them? If so, what do they sound like? I have tons of Tele,GE, and RCA 12Ax7s
Check in with Charles Kittleson @ Vacuum Tube Valley out here in LA. He'll be able to talk you through all of this I suspect and will also likely have any tube you care to try. I'm also sure he'll have info on the Telefunken's.
Also ask about the SED-Winged C SVEL34s (MIR)
his website is:
http://vacuumtube.com/
Simon Gee
12-22-2009, 10:36 PM
How the hell would we know? You are the only one with a Dumble around here and you know that
good point. A psychologist would have a field day with all the dumble-syndrome stuff here. People sure are interesting. hmmmm.
Fuchsaudio
12-22-2009, 10:41 PM
Check in with Charles Kittleson @ Vacuum Tube Valley out here in LA. He'll be able to talk you through all of this I suspect and will also likely have any tube you care to try. I'm also sure he'll have info on the Telefunken's.
Also ask about the SED-Winged C SVEL34s (MIR)
his website is:
http://vacuumtube.com/
I regret to advise Charlie took his own life on February 10th of this year.
anais
12-22-2009, 10:45 PM
OK guys! You sold me. Where do I get them? maybe I should pick up a set of those AND Mullards and go between both? What aboyut telefunken power tubes? Do they make them? If so, what do they sound like? I have tons of Tele,GE, and RCA 12Ax7s
Yes, as I said before, Tele's are out there, but they are pretty expensive.. Metal or Black based West German Tele's might do you right... There are East German/Russian and I believe Japanese 'knock offs' with the Telefunken Lable on them but they are not the real deal. I got a few Telefunken 12ax7 tubes in a trade a few years back that were made in Japan and, to say the least, was pissed. If you get the metal based ones you know they are legit.. the stamp/non dimple black bases are West German also.. if they have the dimple on the top they are not legit/Russian made.
I regret to advise Charlie took his own life on February 10th of this year.
Good God that is horrible news. RIP and my prayers to his family. Just AWFUL to hear that.
Roccaforte Amps
12-22-2009, 11:03 PM
I've never been a fan of the 6CA7 tone. It's kinda 6L6 sounding,
but not as sweet IMO. There's a hardness to them when they clip
that I just don't care for. I prefer 6L6's and EL34's over 6CA7's.
Ever try Amperex EL34's? Amazing sounding tube. Probably the
smoothest EL34 type/sounding tube you can use in MI gear.
I use those and Mullard for NOS, SED for current production.
Dave_C
12-22-2009, 11:04 PM
I regret to advise Charlie took his own life on February 10th of this year.
OMG, that's horrible. My deepest condolences to his family. My son lost his life on that day too. WTF.
Liquid Ranger
12-22-2009, 11:18 PM
Tag, Dumble put ( and seemed to favor ) big bottle GE 6CA7's in the EL-34 Overdrives, I still have a quad of them with Dumble's hand written tolerances on each tube from my old ODS combo. B
StratStringSlinger
12-22-2009, 11:22 PM
Tag, Dumble put ( and seemed to favor ) big bottle GE 6CA7's in the EL-34 Overdrives, I still have a quad of them with Dumble's hand written tolerances on each tube from my old ODS combo. B
There you have it! Now you gotta try GE 6CA7's in your Dumble; if nothing else just to know how it was intended to sound.
Does anyone know what Mr. Dumble put in the 6L6 type amps?
Billion81
12-22-2009, 11:25 PM
OMG, that's horrible. My deepest condolences to his family. My son lost his life on that day too. WTF.
That is indeed very sad news. Dave_C, my sympathies to you as well-I do recall reading your brief commentary on the loss of your son in a post that was a response to someone who made a semi lame comment.
Ugh- I am always saddened to hear when someone finds a life that is bereft of hope that the only answer is total desperation.
Bummer-
thanks for the info Andy-
Yeah, that's pretty much the consensus on the Sylvania 6CA7's.
The only potential down side for the Tag application is that they're LOUD!
Try to find some of those old Mesa Boogie branded 6CA7's, the green paint ones if you can. If the paint hasn't burnt white, and you can't just wipe it off with your thumb they'll probably last forever.
I'm still running some from the early 80's. . .
What does "O getter" mean. There are pairs on ebay.
Tag, Dumble put ( and seemed to favor ) big bottle GE 6CA7's in the EL-34 Overdrives, I still have a quad of them with Dumble's hand written tolerances on each tube from my old ODS combo. B
What did you swap them out for and why? What sounded better?
How does this look for a set of Mullards?
http://cgi.ebay.com/4-pcs-Mullard-Blackburn-EL34-6CA7-Audio-Tubes-xf2_W0QQitemZ220528679425QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintag e_Electronics_R2?hash=item3358889a01
kimock
12-23-2009, 12:23 AM
What does "O getter" mean. There are pairs on ebay.
Go back and look at that big picture of those 6CA7's.
Those two rings at the top of the tube are "getters".
I would call that tube 'double getter'.
I'm guessing that "O getter" means 'single getter', which is not the tube I'm talking about.
My experience is with the double getter Sylvanias that Boogie used.
The green paint was the early run, Randy had the pick of the litter from the manufacturer and the selection/rejection process was pretty strict there and in house.
If you see any of those that aren't obviously burnt, they're probably real good tubes.
Mesa Engineering STR 416 6CA7 is what you're looking for if you want to go down that road.
I've got three blue and one green paint sitting right here, I'll see if they fire up.
Tag,
You need a quad of these....ou........la.........la
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/Interferon/IMG_9092.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/Interferon/IMG_9093.jpg
These would do the job nicely! :)
Timinator
12-23-2009, 08:09 AM
Tag, I have a pair of NOS 6CA7's I'll send you to TRY. You can't have them or buy them or use them up either! You do have to wait till I get back from vacation though! They are the matching pair to the pair in my '70 Marshall 50watt head.
scottl
12-23-2009, 08:22 AM
Not always..... These were Dumble installed and "HAD" his writing on them indicating measured transconductance. I have seen several that these Siemens were installed in.
http://www.scottlernermusic.com/ftp/DumbleTubes.jpg
Tag, Dumble put ( and seemed to favor ) big bottle GE 6CA7's in the EL-34 Overdrives, I still have a quad of them with Dumble's hand written tolerances on each tube from my old ODS combo. B
fuzz_factor
12-23-2009, 11:27 AM
How the hell would we know? You are the only one with a Dumble around here and you know that
On a related note: I spilled some Beluga caviar on my Patek Philippe watch. What do you recommend I clean it with? Right now I'm looking at either cloth made from the wool of the elusive wild Vicuna (known to be the world's most expensive fabric), or perhaps having the caviar licked off by an endangered Giant Panda.
Any opinions or personal experience? Thanks.
Liquid Ranger
12-23-2009, 11:27 AM
First two EL34 ODS's that I owned did indeed come with the big bottle GE 6CA7'swith "HAD scribed transconductance " measurements on them , the third ODS...#16X was a cruder affair with handpainted ( by that I mean with a can of spray paint ) control panel and as I recall...yes...Siemen EL34's...figured at the time that he just ran out of the GE's along with things like silk screened face plates and such......
Not always..... These were Dumble installed and "HAD" his writing on them indicating measured transconductance. I have seen several that these Siemens were installed in.
http://www.scottlernermusic.com/ftp/DumbleTubes.jpg
kimock
12-23-2009, 01:13 PM
On a related note: I spilled some Beluga caviar on my Patek Philippe watch. What do you recommend I clean it with? Right now I'm looking at either cloth made from the wool of the elusive wild Vicuna (known to be the world's most expensive fabric), or perhaps having the caviar licked off by an endangered Giant Panda.
Any opinions or personal experience? Thanks.
Clean it yourself?
You can't be serious.
Just get a new one. . .:jo
You're also showing your age with the Panda/caviar comment, and it doesn't look good. . . tan or not.
Tag,
These will also help wet the pants.......ah...the English were so good at one thing......okay......maybe two......
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/Interferon/IMG_9094.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/Interferon/IMG_9095.jpg
fuzz_factor
12-23-2009, 03:14 PM
Clean it yourself?
You can't be serious.
Just get a new one. . .:jo
You're also showing your age with the Panda/caviar comment, and it doesn't look good. . . tan or not.
I would get a new one but my Rolls and Bentley are both in the shop! :dude
Standard 64
12-23-2009, 03:51 PM
Not satisfied with your tone?Not happy with your amp?I'll take it off your hands.Do you take personel checks?
Not satisfied with your tone?Not happy with your amp?I'll take it off your hands.Do you take personel checks?
Love the amp, the tone is off the charts, as always, looking to get it even better, which I think other tubes will do. In any case, yes I do take personal checks. The amp ships after the check clears. 75K and its yours.
Tag,
You need a quad of these....ou........la.........la
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/Interferon/IMG_9092.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/Interferon/IMG_9093.jpg
These are first on my list. Where can I get 4 of them?
riffmeister
12-23-2009, 05:02 PM
JJ's
These are first on my list. Where can I get 4 of them?
I have 2 in my Dumble and these are a backup. I may have an extra duet or quad....In need to go through many boxes of tubes.....If I still have them, they are yours. I believe they had very low hours when I put them away years ago living in NY.
Please note these have a very distinct tone that is very different than the small bottle type EL-34 tubes. You should try them first, as you may not like them. They are more of a 6L6 type sound than a traditional EL-34.
Tag,
These will also help wet the pants.......ah...the English were so good at one thing......okay......maybe two......
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/Interferon/IMG_9094.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/Interferon/IMG_9095.jpg
Could these be related to Alan Philips...............? Boy he would luv a pair of these in his od50.
object47
12-23-2009, 07:14 PM
Mine has Russian power tubes, and I want the smoothest, sweetest sounding NOS EL34s you can get. What would they be? THANKS!! :beer
I'll ask him when I swing by his place tomorrow...
Almost all EL34 amps can run 6550 as well, but you will definitely have to rebias (which has to be done regardless).
I run NOS 6550 in my 73 Carlsbro 60TC as well as my 71 Marshall Smallbox 50 from time to time,its a fatter cleaner tone than most EL34 but closest to Big Bottle 6ca7 definitely.
I agree the Sylvania and GE 6CA7 are closer to 6L6GC in tone but not entirely either.
Any of the early production European EL34 (mid 50s to mid 60s) will be superb whether it is Tesla-Amperex-Mullard-real Telefunken, the price is thru the roof for earliest versions simply because of rarity and demand mainly from audiophiles.
Of course the same applies to Sylvania and GE 6CA7 driven somewhat by Edward Van Halens preference in the early years of Van Halen and the fact MESA and Music Man preferred these tubes because they were and are capable of withstanding very high plate volts (though the screen volts were at lower levels).
Just make DARN sure the tubes you install have been screened properly in various testers and live amps for bias stability especially!
I have a dozen or more of Big Bottle 6CA7 and yes i did in fact find one that did not pass the test for bias stability at full operating volts (even though the tube looks brand new).
I also would want a quad that has at least 30-50 hours of burn in just to be safe and then it needs to pass the rubber hammer test like Ken Fischer used to do.
object47
12-24-2009, 03:24 PM
I'll ask him when I swing by his place tomorrow...
JJ E34L's. Straight from the man himself.
can't go wrong with these.
I have them in my EL34 Bludo
http://angela.com/el34germannostubematchedquad.aspx
Enoch
12-24-2009, 04:38 PM
Siemens EL34 (Ruby) sound best in mine ....
Mine has Russian power tubes, and I want the smoothest, sweetest sounding NOS EL34s you can get. What would they be? THANKS!! :beer
Why don't you contact Mr. Dumble and ask him:crazyguy
Something tells me a lot of the Dumbles were built and shipped with Sylvania or GE 6ca7, after all they were still widely available.
I think MESA bought up a lot of the remaining Sylvania 6l6gc and 6ca7 inventory after production ceased and offered at a seemingly high price in their catalog!
Fuchsaudio
12-26-2009, 11:24 AM
Yup: Last check was $ 100.00 EACH for STR 6L6's and I assume about the same for EL-34's. Good move to buy 'em all up huh ?
WesKuhnley
12-26-2009, 11:41 AM
JJ E34L's. Straight from the man himself.
Mr. Dumble suggested JJEL34L's? Awesome. :aok
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