Anyone with an SG w/ Maestro/Vibrola/Lyre...

[musicofanatic5]

...whatever you call the long tailpiece with the engraving (BIG discussion on MLP w/ Elliott Easton over "what it's called"!!).

Hi-am considering purchase of a 2000 LP/SG Standard Reissue with Deluxe Maestro vibrato. I am quite aware that the string angle as it breaks over the bridge is quite a bit less with this t.p. than with the stop t.p. I am also aware that there is some variation in the amount of neck angle Gbsn builds into their gtrs (which surprises the sh&t outta me, given modern fabrication techniques, presumed use of standardized jigs, etc!). I would like to hear other owner/operator's impressions on the amount of angle over the bridge and how you like/dislike it. Anyone so inclined, please post or PM a side-view picture showing this angle. A shoutout to Jazzmonkey007, who was kind enough to let me ring him up and pester him on the phone about this! Thanks, y'all.

[XKnight]

What is your concern with the string angle? I have a 69 SG w/the long Maestro Vibrola and everything works perfectly on it. Great guitar with big tone and stays in tune.

[nosacter]

I've got a brand new one and while the string angle is fairly shallow, it doesn't seem to be a problem for contact with the bridge. There's no buzzing or dead spots. That said, I'm not real happy with the tone. Not even sure how to describe it, but the notes don't seem to blossom like they do on most instruments--especially above the octave fret. They ring and sustain OK, but it seems more spanky than resonant. Haven't decided how to address that.

[Waxhead]

I've got an SG Deluxe with a factory fitted Maestro bigsby. Was useless until I swapped in new Schaller locking tuners, graphite nut and string saddles. Much imroved it but still not good until I started bypassing the Maestros bridge bar. With the strings going straight over the top it's now pretty useful but will never be great like my Gretsch bigsby.

A Vibrola or a www.stetsbar.com (http://www.stetsbar.com) is definitely the best option on an SG IMO.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd231/newysurfer/SGdeluxe7b.jpg

[MBreinin]

I have had several in this configuration. To me, it is the only way. It looks "right" and it feels great. I don't use the bar much, but I have found you can and it stays in tune.

[musicofanatic5]

I have had several in this configuration. To me, it is the only way. It looks "right" and it feels great. I don't use the bar much, but I have found you can and it stays in tune.

Thanks. No problems with the strings bouncing out of the saddle slot upon attack?

[trisonic]

Thanks. No problems with the strings bouncing out of the saddle slot upon attack?
Yes, I have an old SG Special with that problem. The downforce on the bridge is next to nothing. Luckily the Special incorporates a wraparound bridge too so I just bypass the Vibrola.
You don't get this issue with the "Bigsby" type for obvious reasons.......

Best, Pete.

[musicofanatic5]

Yes, I have an old SG Special with that problem. The downforce on the bridge is next to nothing. Luckily the Special incorporates a wraparound bridge too so I just bypass the Vibrola.
You don't get this issue with the "Bigsby" type for obvious reasons.......

Best, Pete.

Ah, a Special! You're gonna get the best sonic results with the wraptail anyhow.

Yes, I did not anticipate that there was a bigsby with the Maestro name on it like the responder with the blue SG. Just to clarify, I mean a set-up like this:

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t195/musicofanatic/002592_gibson_61_sg_maestro_web1_th.jpg

I like the feel of the action on this gtr, and it sounds good. I think I will need to replace the saddles and make sure all string grooves are cut to just exactly the right depth and diameter. As it stands the low E saddle is all f*cked up from excess movement/vibration and constantly jumping outta the groove.

I imagine Firebirds with this t.p. might have some of the same issues. Not so much, any semi-solids (I have seen this t.p. on a 335), because of the angle afforded by the arch of the top.

Thanks to all responders. Would be happy to see any side-view pics showing the angle of bridge string-break for comparison's sake.

[gtrfinder]

I have a '64 SG and '64 Firebird, both with lyre units.
I keep .11's on them (like all my Gibsons) and have no issues with action, intonation, or tuning stability.
Make sue the guitar is set up properly and you should not have any issues.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u117/gtrfinder/P1000111.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u117/gtrfinder/64Firebird-1.jpg

[musicofanatic5]

I have a '64 SG and '64 Firebird, both with lyre units.
I keep .11's on them (like all my Gibsons) and have no issues with action, intonation, or tuning stability.
Make sue the guitar is set up properly and you should not have any issues.



http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u117/gtrfinder/64Firebird-1.jpg

Ha! Looky there! Yer low E string is popped outta the saddle, just like I was talking about!!! It sometimes happens on my "top wrapped" stoptail/tunamatic FB, too. Very interesting!

[gtrfinder]

Ha! Looky there! Yer low E string is popped outta the saddle, just like I was talking about!!! It sometimes happens on my "top wrapped" stoptail/tunamatic FB, too. Very interesting!

Well, actually that is the dealer's photo from where I bought it. The low E was not tuned to pitch as he had just taken it out of its case from shipping.
I don't have any issues with strings coming out of the sadlles.

[musicofanatic5]

Well, alright, but ya gotta admit...in light of the topic and all...!

[trisonic]

That's funny! gtrfinder - you must have a very light touch....I envy you I'm very ham-fisted (and my guitars have all been set up correctly, for me).

Best, Pete.

[heybulldog]

Do the new replacement arms for these vibrolas just screw into the tailpiece? I just bought a 1966 Ephiphone Olympic and it's missing the arm. I got conflicting reports about the new arms being diffrent mounting-wise than the originals. Any thoughts?

[ricoh]

Love the way they look with the lyre TP. The one I had did not do it for me tone wise high up the neck. The stop tail I traded it for did get it!!!!!

[olectric]

it really is all about the angles on these vibrola'd SGs. A good neck angle and a well-formed vibrola unit will help to seat the strings on the saddles. If the neck angle is poor or the vibrola rests higher than it should, the strings will have little to no downward pressure on the bridge. To "fix" this, the saddles could be dug out a little deeper to keep the strings from sliding off one way or the other (this will kill the sustain, especially when playing higher up the neck), or the bridge could be jacked up sky-high in an effort to "create" the break angle. This will kill the guitar's playability. It took me a few tries to find a good one, but I finally did once Jeff Senn gave me the heads up with what to look for.

Mine (an '06 gloss-finish Historic, pictured below) plays, stays in tune, and sustains just like a stoptail, but has an acoustic quality to the high end that I really dig. For me personally, stoptails are for the pre-'61 Les Paul design. I think the vibrola is essential to what an SG/Les Paul was originally intended to sound like--nevermind that it looks great, too! The problem is finding a good one. If you MUST buy one online, request a pic like this:

(Notice in this pic the great break angle over the bridge. You can also see how the action is pretty low, too, which means the bridge wasn't jacked way up to get this break angle; this is CORRECT):
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b89/olectric/mysg.jpg

The next pic is of the first SG I ordered from a music store's website sight unseen. This is an example of bad break angle. The neck angle is off and/or the Vibrola unit sits too high at rest to give the strings sufficient downward pressure on the bridge. With decent, playable action, any bends above the 12th fret will cause the strings to pop out of the saddles. I told them the problem I was having with the guitar, and they gave me a full refund. (this is INCORRECT):
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b89/olectric/sg1.jpg

[musicofanatic5]

it really is all about the angles on these vibrola'd SGs. A good neck angle and a well-formed vibrola unit will help to seat the strings on the saddles. If the neck angle is poor or the vibrola rests higher than it should, the strings will have little to no downward pressure on the bridge. To "fix" this, the saddles could be dug out a little deeper to keep the strings from sliding off one way or the other (this will kill the sustain, especially when playing higher up the neck), or the bridge could be jacked up sky-high in an effort to "create" the break angle. This will kill the guitar's playability. It took me a few tries to find a good one, but I finally did once Jeff Senn gave me the heads up with what to look for.

Mine (an '06 gloss-finish Historic, pictured below) plays, stays in tune, and sustains just like a stoptail, but has an acoustic quality to the high end that I really dig. For me personally, stoptails are for the pre-'61 Les Paul design. I think the vibrola is essential to what an SG/Les Paul was originally intended to sound like--nevermind that it looks great, too! The problem is finding a good one. If you MUST buy one online, request a pic like the second one below.


Notice in this pic the great break angle over the bridge. You can also see how the action is pretty low, too, which means the bridge wasn't jacked way up to get this break angle.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b89/olectric/mysg.jpg

Below is the first SG I ordered from a music store's website sight unseen. This is an example of bad break angle. The neck angle is off and/or the Vibrola unit sits too high at rest to give the strings sufficient downward pressure on the bridge. With decent, playable action, any bends above the 12th fret will cause the strings to pop out of the saddles. I told them the problem I was having with the guitar, and they gave me a full refund.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b89/olectric/sg1.jpg


Thank you!! This is the exact response I sought! And the first side view shot showing the string break over the bridge. What you report confirms my suspicions about inconsistancies in neck angles. I wonder if the acute crease in the spring can be increased? That would help the string break.

[trisonic]

The neck angle may be different but look at the angle of the string anchor plate. On the SG where there is a problem it is bent up......

Best, Pete.

[musicofanatic5]

Yes and I'm wondering if mine can be bent down.

[Waxhead]

Thank you!! This is the exact response I sought! And the first side view shot showing the string break over the bridge. What you report confirms my suspicions about inconsistancies in neck angles. I wonder if the acute crease in the spring can be increased? That would help the string break.

yes the angle is important for sure - but it shouldn't be either to low or too acute. If you look at my SG Deluxe (the blue one with the maestro) you'll see a problem being the angle between bridge and maestro bar is to high. That produced too much resistence. Bypassing the bar helped a lot but it's not the only factor in good bigsby operation.

Equally important is that the guitar needs to be locked very solidly at both the bridge and headstock so there's no string movement when you wriggle the tremolo bar. Plus there has to be easy glide in between. I also had to stick in new locking tuners plus graphite saddles & nut to make mine work ok :)

[monstermike]

Yes and I'm wondering if mine can be bent down.

A little bit. Not enough to cure major problems, but enough to tweak it a little.

[olectric]

Yes and I'm wondering if mine can be bent down.

in the case of the guitar in the third pic above, it could not. once those metal vibrolas are formed, they are pretty much set. the metal has memory, and returns to the same place every time. have you ever heard of anyone's vibrola wearing out? or of anyone being able to reform it? it would take a certain distance to bend the metal to overcome its "memory"; because of the way the vibrola is folded over itself, this couldn't be achieved. even if it could, that would only solve half the problem with that particular guitar...the lame neck angle would be left to be dealt with.

[Frankee]

Works great.

Remember......it's not a Floyd.

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg298/pacbastard/DSC01121.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg298/pacbastard/DSC01122.jpg

[Simto]

Sorry for reviving an "old" thread.
Early next year, i was planning on buying a '61 Reissue SG, paint it Pelham blue and put a Vibrola on it and i've been reading a lot about them which led me to wondering two things.

I read some people say it makes the tone dull? or less bright, which is REALLY not what i want, that's what i have my 335 for. But is it really a problem? I've only tried a Flying V with a Vibrola and i liked it a lot.. i didn't notice any loss in high end. I'm getting the SG mostly for recording heavier riffs on the low strings and i need 100% clarity.

and second... is it really a "gamble" so to speak, to put a vibrola on afterwards? since there could be an issue with the angle behind the bridge.

[fuzzface71]

Cool thread!