Am I the Craigslist Villan of My town ? ? ?

[Twik]

Check out this crazy trade gone bad!


I went in search of some pedals on CL to trade, buy whatever... A guy reaches out to me and says he has all these pedals, old strats, custom amps etc and he is looking for acoustic guitars.. I tell him all I have is a lower end Takamine that is worth more to me as a back up than to anyone else. I shoot him a similar guitar (same model) from an ebay ad since I was at work with no pic. I do tell him that it was an example and like mine. He responds and says he will give me the following for the guitar...
1 MXR Dyna Comp
2 VOX Wah with The Whipple inductor and mod kit
3 Dunlop Rotovibe
4 TS9 not modded but easy to do
5 Stamps DriveOmatic
6 Fulltone OCD
7 Rat Distortion pedal
8 Morley A/B Switch
A Pro Pedaltrain in the Hardcase!!!
the Voodoo Pedal Power 2
along with extra patch cables, power cables and tons of Velcro

Well obviously I am quite suspicious... He won't wait until the next day, he won't drive an extra 4 miles to my office but wants to meet in a parking lot. I cautiously meet and am pleasantly surprised that he seems legit, he plays my guitar puts it in the case and then shows me the pedal rig. It looks clean good yeah...

Next day he contacts me and says I gave him a different guitar than the one listed on ebay... Well the one listed was an EGS330SC the one I gave was an EG330SC ... I ask him what he means he says, the one pictured says it was made in Korea and the one I gave was made in Taiwan and that the Korean ones are much better...

I have researched and found nothing to substantiate any value diff between where the guitars are made...

What would you do? If you need additional info let me know... I am very curious...

[jimfog]

Now I bet you're glad you didn't meet at your office, huh?

:roll:roll:roll

[Twik]

Now I bet you're glad you didn't meet at your office, huh?

:roll:roll:roll


Good point... So, should I trade back? Did I do something wrong ?

[jimfog]

Good point... So, should I trade back? Did I do something wrong ?

IMO, as long as you were totally clear that the pic you sent wasn't actually yours, then you both did the deal in good faith. I wouldn't worry about it. It's a done deal. Tell him that once, politely, then after that, I would just ignore the guy. Probably just having sellers/buyers remorse.

[dividedsky]

You told him upfront the picture was not of the guitar you owned but of a similar guitar. He was able to see the guitar in person, play it, examine it to the full extent of his curiosity. Done deal, IMO.

[jimfog]

He was able to see the guitar in person, play it, examine it to the full extent of his curiosity. Done deal, IMO.

Duh...forgot that part. That's the most important point here. He had the thing in his hands before buying.

"See ya, dude" :wave

[Twik]

IMO, as long as you were totally clear that the pic you sent wasn't actually yours, then you both did the deal in good faith. I wouldn't worry about it. It's a done deal. Tell him that once, politely, then after that, I would just ignore the guy. Probably just having sellers/buyers remorse.


"I am at work and pretty sure this is the one…I know it might sound biased but I think the body looks a little better on mine than this pic."

These are the references in my email to him... and he did state that he knew the pic was not my actual guitar but that becuase of the Taiwan/Korea differences that it was a different rig...

Thanks for your input... I believe I will take your advice.

[circusinthesky]

Is there a price difference between the Korean and Taiwanese models?

[Twik]

You told him upfront the picture was not of the guitar you owned but of a similar guitar. He was able to see the guitar in person, play it, examine it to the full extent of his curiosity. Done deal, IMO.


Yeah that's what my buddy has said over and over... I just hate having people pissed at me or thinking that I screwed them... Just a puss here. Wish I could just ignore him and move on. hearing from others helps...
Thanks

[Twik]

Is there a price difference between the Korean and Taiwanese models?


I can not find one at all!!! There is no pattern of one over the other.. I have seen people debate both over the other and others debate both over yet 3rd countries manufacturing... but again in no way supporting Korean to be worth more...

[circusinthesky]

Well, in any case, it should not matter. Done deal. All up front. But, to be balanced, let your conscience be your guide.

[dividedsky]

Yeah I know I like it when deals go cleanly too but some people you just can't satisfy. I once had a guy mad at me for the way an internal trimmer was set on the pedal I sold him. I had never even messed with the trimmer but he was upset because it wasn't set where it got him the tone he liked and he had to change it.

[Twik]

Yeah I know I like it when deals go cleanly too but some people you just can't satisfy. I once had a guy mad at me for the way an internal trimmer was set on the pedal I sold him. I had never even messed with the trimmer but he was upset because it wasn't set where it got him the tone he liked and he had to change it.


How dare you sell a pedal like that! You must have some issues!:nono

[Shiny McShine]

I had a similar thing with a Boss RC20. He buys it and then calls saying he wanted the XL version. I gave him his money back and he gave me $5 for my trouble.

Maybe I should have said no. He met me in a parking lot too despite my saying that he should just drive an extra 4 miles to where I live.

[bopplayer]

This is why I don't even look on CL.

[ducatisteve]

IMO, if that was a big issue he was worried enough about to take into consideration, he should have checked, noticed it and said something when given time to examine the guitar. I bet he realized (or his friends told him) that he gave away too much.

[amigo30]

Things can't get more straight up than an in-person trade.

Both people touch-look at-check out the gear and make their decisions. Once the gear is traded off, there's nothing left to talk about. Deal over.

[NyteOwl]

If he claims there's a difference in value between Korean-made and Taiwanese-made, then I should think the onus is on him to substantiate that claim. But then again, like everyone else said, the deal was done in person and if he wasn't satisfied with it then he would never have done the deal.

[boogieplaya]

Sounds like buyers (traders) remorse. I would just tell him that you already flipped them. They are gone. Conversation over.

[anoobis]

Sounds like buyers (traders) remorse. I would just tell him that you already flipped them. They are gone. Conversation over.
Yes I had this happen once. He said the amp makes too much noise and he wanted his money back after 'showing' me over the phone how noisy it was: volume and gain maxxed with a single coil pup.....yeah ANY amp is gonna be noisy. He bought the amp without playing it, against my wishes. I told him he should try it out first but he said he had experience with the amp -a Koch Multitone.

It was obvious to me he didn't like the amp and I told him I would be a fool to take it back after he had it in his possession for a day- who knows what he could have done to it? The guy was not all there in mental capacity and he even tried to buy other things I was selling after that incident. :nuts

Bottom line: advertise it as is, be straight up with them and tell them to play it and check it to make sure it's up to their liking. After the $ changes hands and they take it home, no refunds. You will still get some mental cases thinking they got screwed somehow. That's life. Not your fault and if anyone calls you out on it, let them have an earfull. Don't let them get away with that crap. If no one calls them on it, they will just keep on repeating their bad behavior.

[Jon Silberman]

The guy held the guitar in his own hands before making the trade so it's a done deal. This being said, one of the most important lessons I've learned in life is there can be more important things than being "right." If it were me - I'm not telling you to do this, I'm saying only "If it were me" - if I thought $50 could placate the dude and end the negativity, I'd consider it. Not because I had to ... because life is short and you never know.

[Blindspot]

Wouldn't the difference between a Korea made and Taiwan made one be like the difference between a Big Mac and a Whopper?

[anoobis]

The guy held the guitar in his own hands before making the trade so it's a done deal. This being said, one of the most important lessons I've learned in life is there can be more important things than being "right." If it were me - I'm not telling you to do this, I'm saying only "If it were me" - if I thought $50 could placate the dude and end the negativity, I'd consider it. Not because I had to ... because life is short and you never know.
That would only encourage his behavior if people start handing him money. It's like the people who complain at every restaurant about the food, knowing they will get a discount or free. Screw them. Once a deal is done, it's done.

[Twik]

The guy held the guitar in his own hands before making the trade so it's a done deal. This being said, one of the most important lessons I've learned in life is there can be more important things than being "right." If it were me - I'm not telling you to do this, I'm saying only "If it were me" - if I thought $50 could placate the dude and end the negativity, I'd consider it. Not because I had to ... because life is short and you never know.


I know what you are saying... Ironically I did tell him that if it would make him feel better, I would throw in a Shure mic or cash just to make him feel better. He responded with threatening me with legal action... Understand, he does not have a legal leg to stand on... At ALL... But, to shut him up, I spent (too much) time looking up the differences in the guitars and after looking across the world I actually saw the model guitar I gave him selling for more than I even thought would... Having done the research, I now plan to take any additional compensation off the table...
What might surprise you, this is an accomplished musician that has been playing for 30 years... All the more reason he is more than capapble of making a decision on his own...

Thanks for everyone's input and just confirming my feelings!

[Trotter]

When he left with the guitar, the deal was done. He could have passed on it. Unless the guy seems unstable in the head I would respectfully tell him sorry but the deal was made.

I once bought a Marshall JCM800 off my local craigslist for $600. I paid the guy with cash, we both counted the money and I left. The next day he called me and told me I under paid him by $100. He was pissed... I know I gave him $600 and since we both counted it out together I had to hold strong and tell him sorry, there's no way I'm bringing you another $100.

I'm also trying to get receipts for things I buy off craigslist now too. Kinda covers you if the gear is stolen, etc.

[fretless]

It's crap like this that stopped me from doing Ebay. The last 3 deals were totally legit, with ZERO ambiguity. Of course, all three I get bad feedback because of stuff like "It wasn't red enough..", or "It sounds bad when I play it in the shower..". I'm kidding, of course, but I did run into perhaps the three most insane people in the world and it totally ruined it for me. My feedback went from PERFECT to meh overnight and I did nothing wrong.

[twinrider1]

I know what you are saying... Ironically I did tell him that if it would make him feel better, I would throw in a Shure mic or cash just to make him feel better. He responded with threatening me with legal action... Understand, he does not have a legal leg to stand on... At ALL... But, to shut him up, I spent (too much) time looking up the differences in the guitars and after looking across the world I actually saw the model guitar I gave him selling for more than I even thought would... Having done the research, I now plan to take any additional compensation off the table...
What might surprise you, this is an accomplished musician that has been playing for 30 years... All the more reason he is more than capapble of making a decision on his own...

Thanks for everyone's input and just confirming my feelings!

Legal action?....he'd have just used up any kindness I'd have been feeling and any willingness to reverse or sweeten the deal. Friendliness just left town and now it is cold hard business. He examined it, he accepted it, done deal.

[bigdaddy]

If you're gonna start handing out Shure mics for no reason, I could use an SM 57. Pm me for my mailing address. You'll cover shipping, right? I assume you'll include an XLR cable and short boom stand also.

My mortgage payment is due on Monday. Could you cover that, as well? And, both my cars are filthy. Please throw in a couple car wash tokens that will work in the Mpls metro area.

[itkindaworks]

Legal action?....he'd have just used up any kindness I'd have been feeling and any willingness to reverse or sweeten the deal. Friendliness just left town and now it is cold hard business. He examined it, he accepted it, done deal.
Exactly, I'd say conversation over now.

[Twik]

For what it's worth, below is my final email... I did not include names or the links... Oh and Bigdaddy, Point well taken... Where do I send that mtg pmt for you?

I spent a great deal of time doing research as you will see below. What I have come to realize is that there is absolutely no monetary difference from the example ad I sent you and your guitar. Your guitar is much more available in the UK than here and I have a feeling when you said your guitar sells for 300 new, you must have seen one of the Great Britain prices... It is 310 pounds which converts to 529.00 us. Given the fact that the ebay example ad was listed at 419.00 (or best offer) and the pricing that I see on both the cedar and spruce models; that not only did I not mislead you, there was no mistake made. Korean or Taiwanese is not a value differential. Cedar vs spruce is not a value differential... early run vs late run is not a value differential... Whether different woods, bells and whistles, different country manufacturers show up on any of the 330 guitars, the monetary value remains consistent.... In these links you will see the guitar on the ebay ad and you will see your guitar... There simply is no value difference...
The bottom line is, my pedals and case have all been dismantled, re-arranged, traded and such... Trading back simply left the table last thurs a few hours after my email to you which is why I offered you additional compensation in the event I had made a mistake... Now that I have further investigated the guitars it just simply appears that a "buyers remorse", another deal or someone elses opinion found it's way into this transaction and that simply is not my responsibility.
The last 3 links are probably the most clear in that they show both of the guitars at the same sale prices and Takamine showing both guitars as equal.

xxxx, I have made some transactions that I have regretted and some that I have loved. You have a nice guitar there and you will enjoy how it amplifies! I am sorry your are not as excited about it now but if you give it a chance you will realize that it fits the bill just as you thought it would that day and when we met.

I regret that there were challenges with this transaction and I too have no hard feelings... I wish you well with your newest endeavors.

[grateful.ed]

He gave you all this?...Maybe the drugs wore off?

[CaseyI]

For what it's worth, below is my final email... I did not include names or the links... Oh and Bigdaddy, Point well taken... Where do I send that mtg pmt for you?

I spent a great deal of time doing research as you will see below. What I have come to realize is that there is absolutely no monetary difference from the example ad I sent you and your guitar. Your guitar is much more available in the UK than here and I have a feeling when you said your guitar sells for 300 new, you must have seen one of the Great Britain prices... It is 310 pounds which converts to 529.00 us. Given the fact that the ebay example ad was listed at 419.00 (or best offer) and the pricing that I see on both the cedar and spruce models; that not only did I not mislead you, there was no mistake made. Korean or Taiwanese is not a value differential. Cedar vs spruce is not a value differential... early run vs late run is not a value differential... Whether different woods, bells and whistles, different country manufacturers show up on any of the 330 guitars, the monetary value remains consistent.... In these links you will see the guitar on the ebay ad and you will see your guitar... There simply is no value difference...
The bottom line is, my pedals and case have all been dismantled, re-arranged, traded and such... Trading back simply left the table last thurs a few hours after my email to you which is why I offered you additional compensation in the event I had made a mistake... Now that I have further investigated the guitars it just simply appears that a "buyers remorse", another deal or someone elses opinion found it's way into this transaction and that simply is not my responsibility.
The last 3 links are probably the most clear in that they show both of the guitars at the same sale prices and Takamine showing both guitars as equal.

xxxx, I have made some transactions that I have regretted and some that I have loved. You have a nice guitar there and you will enjoy how it amplifies! I am sorry your are not as excited about it now but if you give it a chance you will realize that it fits the bill just as you thought it would that day and when we met.

I regret that there were challenges with this transaction and I too have no hard feelings... I wish you well with your newest endeavors.

PS: you held the guitar in your hands decided it was a fair deal.

PPS: if you ever come near me I'll get a restraining order.

Thank you and have a nice day!:D

[Twik]

he's not happy

[Jon Silberman]

Legal action?....he'd have just used up any kindness I'd have been feeling and any willingness to reverse or sweeten the deal. Friendliness just left town and now it is cold hard business. He examined it, he accepted it, done deal.
Agreed. I withdraw my prior suggestion.

[iaresee]

I'm with the others. As soon as someone used the L-word as a threat they get the stone cold silent treatment from me. Call his bluff. Stop talking to him. If it persists hand it over to the police.

The less conversing you do with him, the better.

[Twik]

I'm with the others. As soon as someone used the L-word as a threat they get the stone cold silent treatment from me. Call his bluff. Stop talking to him. If it persists hand it over to the police.

The less conversing you do with him, the better.


As with many of your suggestions I agree. I sent that last email and that is it... couple of mild threats came in from him yesterday but I simply will no longer respond.

[Garygtr]

I worked for Kaman Music (Takamine distributor) as a guitar inspector from '98-'03, FWIW the Taiwan-made guitars were better than the Korean ones by far, at least during that time period. IIRC the Taiwan plant also made guitars for Yamaha.

[iaresee]

It can mind achingly painful to not respond but if he does call a lawyer you'll be happy you kept quiet.

If it helps, keep venting here. Call it TGP CL frustration therapy.

[TommyGuitar]

Sounds like you got a Wicked trade. Congrats! That's what I call Business.

[Twik]

It can mind achingly painful to not respond but if he does call a lawyer you'll be happy you kept quiet.

If it helps, keep venting here. Call it TGP CL frustration therapy.


Funny you said that... Because it was the posts and responses here that helped me feel better about moving forward. Thanks for the support!

[Polynitro]

he sounds like an idiot. You got some good pedals for a crappy guitar. Good job!

[DonW]

The deal was done when you both drove off. He was given a chance to inspect the guitar before the trade. No mulligan's, he's done. He might be stupid enough to pay a lawyer far more than it's worth but there's no court with common sense in the country that would say you've done anything remotely criminal.

If he persists file a restraining order on him.

[stratbred]

Sounds like you got a good deal and this guy is having second thoughts for whatever reason. He played it and didn't have a problem. His excuse sounds superficial and is probably covering some other reason.

You made a good move not letting this guy come to your office. Hopefully he hasn't got your address.

[Twik]

Sounds like you got a good deal and this guy is having second thoughts for whatever reason. He played it and didn't have a problem. His excuse sounds superficial and is probably covering some other reason.

You made a good move not letting this guy come to your office. Hopefully he hasn't got your address.


You know, the irony is that I did want him to come to the office so I could plug in the pedals and he could play on the guitar for a while... He was the one that talked me into meeting in a parking lot

[Twik]

Hey, I was reading back over this... I made a mistake in my telling of the story... The Ebay Ad I sent was an EGS330SC Which is a Cedar top version of the EG330SC. Now the picture on the ad did NOT look like cedar it looked like spruce... I never even noticed that until further looking into it... However, The value, etc is still the same... And he did get to hold and play the guitar...
I simply wanted to clarify my mistake on this story... I did and still do consider them the same model with no value diff. And for the record, he never had an issue with the top being spruce versus Cedar. He only complained about where the guitar was manufactured.

[cmatthes]

I know it's been said multiple times above, but this is a DONE DEAL.

You definitely got the better end of things in my opinion, but the key factor here is that he had the full right of inspection at the time the deal was done. Offer + Acceptance = Contract (in the most basic terms). He accepted your offer, and any attempt to renegotiate later on opens up a new contract. Just move along - you're not being an A-hole, he's just being an idiot.

Block his email/phone. Do not communicate with him even one more time. Seriously.

He will not bring a successful action against you either - that's the ranting of a desperate guy who did his research after the fact. Not your problem.

[mike80]

I know it's been said multiple times above, but this is a DONE DEAL.

You definitely got the better end of things in my opinion, but the key factor here is that he had the full right of inspection at the time the deal was done. Offer + Acceptance = Contract (in the most basic terms). He accepted your offer, and any attempt to renegotiate later on opens up a new contract. Just move along - you're not being an A-hole, he's just being an idiot.

Block his email/phone. Do not communicate with him even one more time. Seriously.

He will not bring a successful action against you either - that's the ranting of a desperate guy who did his research after the fact. Not your problem.


This.

Deal was done upon driving away. Even if it were a beat up cheap POS that wasn't even remotely close to what you said it was, he had the opportunity to inspect it. When he got in the car with the guitar and drove away, that was his signature on the contract.

[Lublin]

DONE DEAL!

[bug0711]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3177/3042339811_907141c0a0.jpg

[Rattle&Hum]

Nice score with that pedalboard! Don't feel the least bit bad about coming out ahead on a deal in which you [seemingly] did nothing to intentionally mislead him & he had plenty of opportunity to inspect and decline the deal. He aggreed to proceed and that lifted responsibility off of you. You should be free to have a clear conscience. You can't control how other people act - only your own conduct.

[darkstar11]

Like others have said..

It is a done deal.

Also, I would not answer or discuss the matter with him any further.

Just curious... does he know where you work? Or you full name etc?

[korby]

I've noticed my last few craigslist deals have all turned weird , buyers remorse (after he had the guitar a month ) , last second lowballs after the deal was done , worship leaders lying , I think as the economy worsens people are way to stressed out and what used to be a fun hobby seems to be getting a bit dangerous . I'm done with craigslist for a while .

[Twik]

Like others have said..

It is a done deal.

Also, I would not answer or discuss the matter with him any further.

Just curious... does he know where you work? Or you full name etc?


Yes he knows my name... Not specifically where I work. But I gave him my Music Business card at the point. I like to network... Can't imagine him doing face to face confrontation, I've got him by a good 50lbs (not that I would ever be physical with anyone but they don't know that)...

[Twik]

One thing I've learned going through life is that some people will not like me and there's nothing I can do about that. So I don't worry about it and accept it. I'm a decent, like-able person and I try to make people I care about happy. But there will always be some that I have no control over their feelings about me. So it's a waste of time trying to please them.

Put this guy in that category and move on...


Thanks, That's an excellent point!

[Jahn]

it was an in person trade. when you hold a guitar in your hands, you should be able to tell a cedar from a spruce top. anyhow, who knows - he might have done some research on his new guitar online after the trade, and found that TGP thread where you were talking about this killer deal you got and all the posts by us saying it was highway robbery, then he got cold feet!

[Twik]

it was an in person trade. when you hold a guitar in your hands, you should be able to tell a cedar from a spruce top. anyhow, who knows - he might have done some research on his new guitar online after the trade, and found that TGP thread where you were talking about this killer deal you got and all the posts by us saying it was highway robbery, then he got cold feet!

Yeah, I thought about that too... I wondered if I had not gotten so excited about it, if this ever would have come up... Whether he saw it or just Karma...
Regardless, I have moved on and have not heard back from him. Doubt I will.

[Garygtr]

Hey, I was reading back over this... I made a mistake in my telling of the story... The Ebay Ad I sent was an EGS330SC Which is a Cedar top version of the EG330SC. Now the picture on the ad did NOT look like cedar it looked like spruce... I never even noticed that until further looking into it... However, The value, etc is still the same... And he did get to hold and play the guitar...
I simply wanted to clarify my mistake on this story... I did and still do consider them the same model with no value diff. And for the record, he never had an issue with the top being spruce versus Cedar. He only complained about where the guitar was manufactured.

I think the "S" (EGS vs. EG) stands for "solid", as in a solid top vs. a laminate, regardless of the wood type.

[Road.Kill]

You're definitely better off if you refuse to give in when something like this happens, and I don't mean for simply philosophical reasons. Once a buyer has your stuff you have no idea what they could have done to it. Ebay sad stories abound with instances where sellers refunded buyers (well, had no choice due to current policy) and received gutted computers, swapped hardware or componants, or completely different items. Would you really be willing to show up at a refund meeting with tools and start removing screws on the guitar to make sure everything inside was intact? Would you recognize the original hardware immediately? I'm not even sure the best way to inspect for new cracks or other signs of abuse (inspect with a bad-azz flashlight?), and then it would be your word against his anyway. See where I'm going with this? The most concise answer: it would seriously be opening the proverbial can of worms!
Never meet at your workplace, either. That's why we have diners and convenience stores. :aok

[Twik]

I think the "S" (EGS vs. EG) stands for "solid", as in a solid top vs. a laminate, regardless of the wood type.

Actually in this model series that S strictly means Cedar... That part I confirmed with Takamine Directly. That is the only diff between the two. If it was a solid vs laminate, I would have been more concerned that maybe there was a value diff. I am at peace in that I sincerely put a great deal of my time into ensuring I did not intentionally NOR unintentionally mislead him.

Thanks for your input.