Pat Thrall, Rock's greatest unsung guitarist [Archive]

Neer

02-06-2010, 02:25 PM

Pat was very influential to me since I first heard him in 1980 on Pat Travers' Go For What You Know.

For me, his playing stole the show and rocked my world. The first guy I was aware of who really deeply

got into the gear customization thing and developed a few techniques/sounds that players still use

today.

I went on and took a bunch of cool lessons with him around 1990, and he was a joy to play with.

Enjoy these few great selections by Automatic Man, a great group which Pat was a major part of: Listen to Automatic Man here (http://www.mikeneer.com/thrall.htm)

(http://www.mikeneer.com/thrall.htm)

Neer

02-06-2010, 02:27 PM

Anyone old enough to remember this book?

http://www.mikeneer.com/improvising_rock_guitar.jpg

Red Suede

02-06-2010, 02:46 PM

Oh yeah, I remember that book. I got to know Pat over the internet through my association with Lyle Workman, another amazing cat. One of my favorite players. I have some demos that he did 20 years ago that would blow your mind! Some with Michael Walden (the new drummer with Jeff Beck by the way) live performing material off the "Garden of Love Light" album, and some with his brother when they were forming a rock band. Pat Thrall kicks ass!

ElDiabloBlanco

02-06-2010, 02:51 PM

I had that book when I was a kid!

oakfloor

02-06-2010, 03:07 PM

Hughes-Thrall C.D.

Neer

02-06-2010, 03:12 PM

Hughes Thrall CD has its moments, but it's tough for me to get past the production (and GH), but I loved it when it came out.

Tricks

02-06-2010, 04:25 PM

Sure do, I had the book. Likewise, I loved that Hughes and Thrall album in the mid '80s, found it a few months ago and had a listen... couldn't get past the '80s production and sound. He's a great player though.

daddyo

02-07-2010, 12:07 AM

Anyone old enough to remember this book?

http://www.mikeneer.com/improvising_rock_guitar.jpg
My first rock instructional book. What was one of the songs, "Slider"?

Fred McMurray

02-07-2010, 12:48 AM

JDouglee

02-07-2010, 03:17 AM

Heat In The Street and Crash & Burn are the Travers studio records with Thrall.

I'm a huge fan, & again, rhythmic delays many years before The Edge.

Mark Barratt

02-07-2010, 05:22 AM

You can also find Pat Thrall featured on ........

Automatic Man - S/T.
Automatic Man - Visitors.
Stomu Yamashta - GO.
Stomu Yamashta - GO Live from Paris.
Alphonso Johnson - Spellbound.
Asia - Live in Nottingham.
Asia - Live in Moscow.
Glenn Hughes - Feel.

** the first Automatic Man album has a riff on it which later gets re-used on
Hughes/Thrall ***

Hand of Doom

02-07-2010, 05:26 AM

Anyone old enough to remember this book?

http://www.mikeneer.com/improvising_rock_guitar.jpg

I still have it.

Crikey

02-07-2010, 05:51 AM

Thanks for this thread!

fusion58

02-07-2010, 07:10 AM

Heat In The Street and Crash & Burn are the Travers studio records with Thrall.

Thrall played on a few tracks on "Radioactive" as well (can't remember which ones.)

panhead5

02-07-2010, 07:13 AM

It was my first book also and I still have it !!

Tricks

02-07-2010, 08:03 AM

My first rock instructional book. What was one of the songs, "Slider"?

Wasn't it called "Snaker"?

lamentation

02-07-2010, 08:42 AM

My first book too, the song was snaker. It was my first band's first song (band meaning two other guys that couldn't play at all).

Pete Faragher

02-07-2010, 09:28 AM

Hey thanks for posting this.
Pat Thrall was hugely influential for me. First heard him with Automatic Man and that first album of AM really blew my mind. Very Hendrixy vibe. Then the GO Stomu Yamashta stuff.
Then by chance, a pal I was playing with used to play with Pat Travers up in Ottawa in Red Hot. I was not a Travers fan at the time, but he dragged me to a concert of Travers and lo and behold there was Pat Thrall standing on the opposite side of the stage. LOVED that version of the Pat Travers band.

Always thought that Thrall was the perfect combination of technique, feel and taste. He could play with some killer technical stuff but could always turn a tasteful, musical phrase. then other times throw it all away and just be guttural and emotional.

Wish he was still out there playing and recording.

Cheers
pete

WahmBoomAh

02-07-2010, 10:24 AM

I used to see him live with Kenwood Dennard`s band in about 1989-1990 ?
enjoyed his playing but that might not have been the best setting harmonicallyfor what he does best ... I remember liking it but not hearing the "greatness" ...one man`s opinion FWIW

datguytim

02-07-2010, 10:33 AM

I was kid just learning to play guitar in the late '70s , when who walks in to the music store as I'm falling in love with a Peavey Deuce? yep - Pat Thrall!!! I was super-stoked & he was ultra-nice to me (a snot nosed 12 year old). He played some ripping solos on the Deuce (LOL) and left a huge impression on me. Pat rocks.

daddyo

02-07-2010, 10:33 AM

Wouldn't it be funny if, although citing our influences as Beck, EC, Page, etc, we were really all indebted to Pat Thrall?

chris b

03-09-2010, 04:01 PM

Does anyone know what effect Pat Thrall used to get that flutter/chorus sound on the Pat Travers live album?

Chris

Guitarnie

03-09-2010, 06:27 PM

First post here. I had to reply to this thread. I bought that book in 78, I still have it minus the "pull out" 45 record. I played the hell out that paper thin floppy record. I have "Snaker" and "Homage to Hendrix" on my laptop. "Homage to Hendrix" to me sounds more like a "Homage to Santana", Thrall just smokes through both of those songs. Thrall made me a huge Travers fan. Old school tab "The Box System" still have the Epiphone ET 290 I learned those songs on. That book was my bible!

EelEye

03-09-2010, 06:28 PM

Does anyone know what effect Pat Thrall used to get that flutter/chorus sound on the Pat Travers live album?

Chris

Maybe A/DA Flanger?

rw2003

03-09-2010, 07:24 PM

Oh yeah, I remember that book. I got to know Pat over the internet through my association with Lyle Workman, another amazing cat. One of my favorite players. I

I loved the Pat Travers Band since I was a kid in the 70s.... A band with 2 guitar players named Pat.... that had to be something special!!!

Going somewhat off topic... What is your association with Lyle Workman??? My wife has been a fan of Frank Black - solo and with the Pixies - for many years. She got me into the Frank Black and the Catholics albums w/ Lyle playing lead. We saw them live many times when they came through NYC... LW is great!!!

rah3

03-09-2010, 07:30 PM

I was fortunate to meet Pat many years ago at a AES show. It was great to be able to tell him that his Improvising Rock book had been one of the first music books I bought, as well as how inspiring his work in Automatic Man was. He was very gracious, and spent some time talking about his time in Automatic Man.

-RAH3

chris b

03-10-2010, 06:56 AM

Maybe A/DA Flanger?

It's definatly not flange or phase, it's more of a "flutter". I got close to it on my Line 6 M9 pedal using the Tube Echo Echoplex effect with no delay and just the wow flutter turned up.

I've always guessed it was an echoplex but for years I've been asking this question on different forums and nobody knows for sure.

rwe333

03-10-2010, 07:22 AM

It's definatly not flange or phase, it's more of a "flutter". I got close to it on my Line 6 M9 pedal using the Tube Echo Echoplex effect with no delay and just the wow flutter turned up.

I've always guessed it was an echoplex but for years I've been asking this question on different forums and nobody knows for sure.

Combination of delay and flanger w/ volume swells, I think...
Dig up his old interview in Guitar Player, the one w/ Pat Travers on the cover - he chats about this very effect, if memory serves correct...

Thrall is a a great player. Think I enjoyed him most w/ Travers as they were a nice ying/yang. Thrall was really creative in his supportive role and had some inventive solos while Travers wrote some great tunes and played earthier solos. Sure, Thrall's time went out the window on lead things like "Boom Boom" (Travers's strength), that was contrasted by some very in-the-pocket playing, esp on funkier tunes. Then there are his cool sounds/textures.

'Course Thrall has done some remarkable things in recent years as a producer, sonic design consultant, etc.

While Hughes/Thrall may overall be my fave record that Thrall's played on, the solos are not my fave thing about it save for I Got Your Number - awesome...

M4Cw4mZq1q8

Pete Faragher

03-10-2010, 07:23 AM

It's definatly not flange or phase, it's more of a "flutter". I got close to it on my Line 6 M9 pedal using the Tube Echo Echoplex effect with no delay and just the wow flutter turned up.

I've always guessed it was an echoplex but for years I've been asking this question on different forums and nobody knows for sure.

Geez I saw them in 1980 and I know Thrall was using a tape delay of some kind. Am I wrong in thinking it was a Roland Space Echo and could it have been a Roland Echo/Chorus. His A/DA flanger and the echo would make for some pretty cool ambient sounds. I had a A/DA for years and I can tell you, it's a very versatile little unit and a fluttery sound is quite possible with it. Not a "classic flange" at all. As far as that fast rotary sound in the middle section of Snortin' Whiskey, he didn't get that live. So may have been something he used in the studio only.

fusion58

03-10-2010, 09:02 AM

... A band with 2 guitar players named Pat.... that had to be something special!!!

Not to mention two guitar players whose initials are "PT." ;)

Devnor

03-10-2010, 09:27 AM

Caught Pat Thrall on a reality show last year called Living Lohan. Pat is an amazing player...the live solo on Heat in the Street sure made an impression on me.

Neer

03-10-2010, 09:32 AM

Pat used an Echoplex, an ADA Flanger, Marshalls, modded Strats, and a booster (either a Stratoblaster onboard or a Systec booster).

Pat cites Stravinsky as being the inspiration for developing his expertise with the Echoplex--he was trying to get orchestral sounds.

Garygtr

03-10-2010, 09:40 AM

Anyone old enough to remember this book?

http://www.mikeneer.com/improvising_rock_guitar.jpg

Yep, that's what I learned on. To this day I still fight to think outside the "box system" :o

ronmail65

03-10-2010, 09:46 AM

I'm amazed at how little recorded material I can find from Pat Thrall...that really showcases his work. The Pat Travers live album Go For What You Know is what I'm most familiar with, and it is killer...but it leaves you wanting more, especially of Thrall's playing. Thanks for posting those tracks, and if anyone has any recommended listening (Hughes-Thrall aside) I'd be interested...

Peace,

Fred

That is probably my favorite album, but I could never differentiate Thrall from Travers. I could guess based on what I've seen Travers play live (without Thrall), but Travers simply played everything or would split it with Jerry Riggs when I saw them back in the '90's. Help me...

guitbeef

03-10-2010, 09:47 AM

Anyone old enough to remember this book?

Count me in, too, though it's been years. I'd love to find another copy and review it for old times sake and also to pick something out of it again. "Go For What You Know" is also one of my favorites start to finish. Thrall was killer and still is.

Neer

03-10-2010, 10:39 AM

I always loved the little guitar solo Pat Thrall played on this track (solo kicks in about 5:12). This is the way that I always strived to play--intense, to the point, but unpredictable:

GR8IO7bWvic

chris b

03-10-2010, 04:57 PM

That is probably my favorite album, but I could never differentiate Thrall from Travers. I could guess based on what I've seen Travers play live (without Thrall), but Travers simply played everything or would split it with Jerry Riggs when I saw them back in the '90's. Help me...

Thrall is panned to the right and Travers is on the left. You can tell when in Boom Boom Travers says "Mr Thrall" before the solo, it comes up on the right side of the stereo spectrum.

Chris

dark_rainbow

03-10-2010, 05:57 PM

dohootowl

03-10-2010, 10:21 PM

Great thread! He deserves the recognition!

Frank Prince

03-11-2010, 11:20 AM

Yep, I'm a big Pat Thrall fan. I loved the Pat Travers era stuff, and was lucky enough to see them live right after Crash and Burn came out.

I'm not into the pre-Travers stuff as much, Automatic Man and Go, but I haven't heard those albums for a long time, so I might check them out again.

I recently got Hughes/Thrall from iTunes. Great album, with some cool textures and solos from Pat. Glenn Hughes, of course, is a rock legend, one of the great rock voices IMO.

Strato62

03-12-2010, 08:05 PM

Holy Crap!!! Just listening to Pat on the song "Automatic Man". Some of the best guitar work I ever heard in my life!!! I had that book "Improvising Rock Guitar" in 1974. One of the first solos I learned was the one on the back. I have been aware of Pat since then, but have never heard this! What guitar was he using then? Sounds like Strat.

I once read that Pat met Randy Rhoads after a concert. Pat was so impressed with Randy that he told Randy "Well, I guess I better get my paper route back." I wonder of Randy ever heard Pat play with Automatic Man?

Neer

06-23-2011, 09:18 AM

Hey, I'm just bumping this up because I remembered a record that first introduced me to Pat's playing beyond Pat Travers, and it was Stomu Yamashta's "Go" LP. The song is called Crossing The Line and features Steve Winwood on vocals. Pat told me he basically went in and just played over the track and when he was finished he looked into the control room to see everyone (including Winwood) jumping around ecstatically--they even wrote string arrangements around it.

Here is the studio recording of the tune followed by the live version from the LP "Live In Paris", which also featured Al DiMeola. This really takes me back....

T3lDZ9MPFLs

tQbibTHGoVg

AlChuck

06-23-2011, 03:28 PM

Love Pat's playing, could never understand why he was not better known. I first heard him on Stomu Yamashta's Go, and then Automatic Man's first and second album. I wish he had more guitar solos on those albums.

Side note on Automatic Man - the bass player in that band, Doni Harvey, who was working as a blues singer and guitarist in the SF Bay area, died a couple of weeks ago...

wichita

06-23-2011, 03:38 PM

reminds me of a predecessor to vai. when he traded licks with travers, even though travers was decent, it was clear thrall had an arsenal of weapons a multiple of travers. nearly perfect solo'ing one after the other
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6JA6X25g9M

Loved both Pat's...
I can see how you might do the Vai comparison but Thrall's tone was slamming and Vai's... well not so much...

I saw the band in the 70's open for someone... forget who.. and THE PT band blew whoever it was off the stage.
Both guitarists were over the top, the vocals were great and Mars Cowling and Tommy Aldridge were at the top of their game.

theatomicjeff

06-23-2011, 03:42 PM

Anyone old enough to remember this book?

That's how I learned to play lead guitar.

changeling

06-23-2011, 03:48 PM

doni harvey's gone?
awww shit.

r.i.p brother.

man,i was all hyped up cause y'all were talking about one of my main influences.

when i heard automatic man's 1st record i can't describe how it made me feel,but it was something like;"man that guitar player has it all".then he's killing it on what sounds like a gibson on stomu's record. not many dudes can get around both scale lengths as well as pat.
i knew i had to get my shit together quick.when i heard pat.
i heard jan akkerman and holdsworth around the same time,but that's another thread.

pat's phrasing,tones,feel and overall concept were an ocean i swam in for about a solid year.(1976-'77)
i hear he is more on the engineering side of things now in ny;real curious to me that he was never a big shot guitar player in the eyes of the industry he worked in for so long.funny business we work in...

neer,thanks for this thread and if you ever see pat again,tell him ron jennings owes him a debt.

Red Suede

06-24-2011, 09:34 AM

You sure it wasn't Doni's brother? I think his brother's been ill. I hope that isn't true. He's a good cat.

Red Suede

06-24-2011, 09:41 AM

I loved the Pat Travers Band since I was a kid in the 70s.... A band with 2 guitar players named Pat.... that had to be something special!!!

Going somewhat off topic... What is your association with Lyle Workman??? My wife has been a fan of Frank Black - solo and with the Pixies - for many years. She got me into the Frank Black and the Catholics albums w/ Lyle playing lead. We saw them live many times when they came through NYC... LW is great!!!

Sorry for the late reply. Lyle is one of my best friends. I've known him since he lived in San Jose. I saw a lot of Frank Black shows when he was with them, and he's just gotten better and better since. He can play just about any kind of music he wants, and if I had to listen to one guitar player all night these days, it would be him.

Neer

06-24-2011, 09:45 AM

Sadly, it was Doni who passed away. Rest in peace, Doni.

Red Suede

06-24-2011, 10:10 AM

Sadly, it was Doni who passed away. Rest in peace, Doni.

Well, I had the pleasure of seeing him and getting to know him on gigs in the bay area. Sorry to hear about that. Good guy............

Fred Farkus

06-24-2011, 10:57 AM

I was going to do a "Does anyone remember Automatic Man?" thread and now I don't have to. ;)

This is the first tune that turned me on to Pat. The delay stuff is insane in it:

YtVubPSPyzQ

Neer

06-24-2011, 11:09 AM

I was going to do a "Does anyone remember Automatic Man?" thread and now I don't have to. ;)

This is the first tune that turned me on to Pat. The delay stuff is insane in it:

YtVubPSPyzQ

Pat played something very similar on Hold Out Your Life from Hughes/Thrall.

iaVeJgqqKRg

I learned how to do all the echo stuff from listening to Pat. In, I was doing it back around 1980 to the amazement of all the locals. It made a very big impact in the way I approached the guitar, and I still have a bag of tricks based on that stuff.

Pat told me he was on a session for someone and the producer told him not to do it, it sounded "too U2".

drewl

06-24-2011, 11:12 AM

Anyone old enough to remember this book?

http://www.mikeneer.com/improvising_rock_guitar.jpg

HELL YEAHS!!!!

Still have the little record, loaned the book to someone......it wasn't even mine, but my singers' from my high school band!

Fred Farkus

06-24-2011, 12:00 PM

Pat played something very similar on Hold Out Your Life from Hughes/Thrall.

iaVeJgqqKRg

.

Huh. Funny how he used the main riff from the "automatic man theme" on that.

todd richman

06-24-2011, 02:13 PM

I had that book posted by Neer! Pat T. is a great guitarist and highly unsung.

DustyRhodesJr

06-24-2011, 03:08 PM

Got it when it first came out. Still have it!

Mike Me too. I even still have the little record that came with it.

RichardB

06-24-2011, 04:06 PM

While Hughes/Thrall may overall be my fave record that Thrall's played on, the solos are not my fave thing about it save for I Got Your Number - awesome...

M4Cw4mZq1q8

That kicked ARSE. And Hughes may be over the top, but the guy has some kind of voice, man!

fusion58

06-24-2011, 05:57 PM

^

Yep, that record is bad to the bone! :aok

Neer

06-24-2011, 08:18 PM

That solo in I Got Your Number is a perfect example of Pat's echo technique at work.

rah3

07-19-2011, 12:52 PM

Neer,

Great thread. I had that book, and was a huge Automatic Man fan. I had a chance to meet him at a AES show. He was very gracious, and spoke about his time in Automatic Man.

-RAH3

AlChuck

07-19-2011, 02:40 PM

Well, I had the pleasure of seeing him and getting to know him on gigs in the bay area. Sorry to hear about that. Good guy............

Actually both Doni and his brother Regi have passed away. Regi died late April, I think, of 2010... then Doni died on June 1st of this year.

Mayor McCheese

07-19-2011, 03:28 PM

Learned to play out of that same book as well.

As far as telling them apart, Travers is a much heavier rhythm player than Thrall is. Travers lays down the foundation and Thrall dances around on top of it. Travers sound on those albums was ridiculous. He was running a Leslie along with a couple of Marshall heads, an Echoplex, a phase 90, the ADA flanger, and an old MXR Blue Box. Any rotating speaker sound stuff you hear is Travers. The delay fades and the "Another Brick In The Wall" echo stuff is Thrall. Travers really hacks at the guitar too, so there's a lot of pick noise in his playing; Thrall is much smoother.

I was more into Travers because he sounded so much bigger, but they were both great players and complimented each other well.

zorak

07-19-2011, 05:04 PM

I've seen him several times in concert and Thrall is a killer player. A real pro. And that band was totally ridiculous every time I saw them. The only reason Thrall may (or may not) be unsung is because Travers has always been the focus point in the band, obviously.
Thrall could have been in any other band and become "the" guy, but didn't go that route.
But that begs the question: what offers has he entertained over the years? Bet some big acts have wanted him to play.

jekylmeister

07-19-2011, 05:08 PM

Anyone old enough to remember this book?

http://www.mikeneer.com/improvising_rock_guitar.jpg

Oh, man, the past comes rushing back. That is the book that I started with. What was it? 1974? Don't know, but I learned every lick on that little record that came with it. Thanks!