blackbacks or scumbacks?

[silencer eleven]

hey looking for some thoughts on speakers. i am playing a custom fargen mighty plex Mk II, hitting it with a klon, Tim, rx overdriver and fuzz. have a closed back avatar cab and open back avatar cab, all i really have laying around is some blues and have on loan a blackback cab. really like the rig with the blackbacks, but have heard so much about scumbacks they are hard to overlook. playing blues, rock whatever....

so what would you recommend?

thanks for all the input.

Jordan

[JubileeMan 2555]

"blackbacks" is sorta general.

Can you find out if the speakers are 25watt, or 30watt, 55hz or 75hz?

Basically, Scumbacks are going to be direct copies of whatever your blackbacks are. Instead of risking blowing vintage speakers and spending lots of dough in the process, Scumbacks are a great option. Sound amazing, and you can beat them to oblivion without worry.

Here are 3 clips I have of the M75. But I have a feeling you'll be looking towards the H75 depending on the exact specs of the "blackbacks" you are currently using:

M75 split cathode Marshall (http://tylergrund.com/mp3/M75_attenuator.mp3)

M75 Shared Cathode Marshall (http://tylergrund.com/mp3/m75_sharedcathode.mp3)

M75 '65 Bassman Cranked (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N8wNmi9B40)

I have become a big supporter of Scumback speakers. They just sound right, right out of the box. As an amp tweaker (I built the marshall amp you hear in the above clips) its imortant to have the right speakers. With that taken care of, I'm able to tweak my amps properly.

[silencer eleven]

actually the are the T1221 frames, 25watts, 75hz, 16ohm.

[no1yuno]

I've not played the Scumbacks. I have two 4x12's both loaded with blackbacks. They are my favorite spkrs. I would love to hear them side by side with the Scumbacks.

[JubileeMan 2555]

actually the are the T1221 frames, 25watts, 75hz, 16ohm.

Then they are theoretically identical to the M75 in the clips I posted.

[silencer eleven]

was that an open back or closed back cab in the clips? have you tried mixing a m75 and h75?

Jordan

[JubileeMan 2555]

was that an open back or closed back cab in the clips? have you tried mixing a m75 and h75?

Jordan

Semi-open back, but I doubt you'd hear a difference recorded if it was fully closed.

As for your speaker mix question, its more complicated:) I am actually running that exact combo right now in my 2x12 cab and do love it. But since I like the recorded tone of the M75 greatly over the H75, I have just recieved (sitting here at my desk) a second M75 to test out the cab running only M75s. I have a feeling I'll miss the extended highs and lows of the H, but I love how woody/creamy the M75s are and want to give it a shot.

Can't go wrong either way IMO.

[silencer eleven]

i guess that is the whole question, if you only mic one speaker then having the m and h doesn't make any sense. i could see how they would sound great together but i really do prefer the m alone.

what wattages are your speakers?

Jordan

[AnthonySteele]

hey looking for some thoughts on speakers. i am playing a custom fargen mighty plex Mk II, hitting it with a klon, Tim, rx overdriver and fuzz. have a closed back avatar cab and open back avatar cab, all i really have laying around is some blues and have on loan a blackback cab. really like the rig with the blackbacks, but have heard so much about scumbacks they are hard to overlook. playing blues, rock whatever....

so what would you recommend?

thanks for all the input.

Jordan
There great. There like vintage Celestians. I put 4 in a Marshall cab and it cranks.

[JubileeMan 2555]

i guess that is the whole question, if you only mic one speaker then having the m and h doesn't make any sense. i could see how they would sound great together but i really do prefer the m alone.

what wattages are your speakers?

Jordan

Thats the best part of scumbacks. You don't NEED a 4x12 to get the vintage Greenback tone. I use the 100watt versions of his speakers which allows me to crank my 50wattt on 10 through a 2x12. Much more easy to lug to gigs. They are a TINY TINY bit darker then their 25watt cousins, but that is easily EQ'd to be equal. Non-issue as far as I'm concerned. I think people order the 25watt versions simply because it gives them piece of mind that they are truely identical to the vintage counterparts.

The mix has a purpose. In a live setting, when the band is cranking loud, the "M" speaker is Mic'd through the PA system to deliver the best tone, and the "H" speaker ends up being the speaker that helps me cut through the band mix on stage.

Believe me, I have been against mixing speakers from the beginning, with that same problem of "which do you mic?"... and this is the reason for buying a second M75.

[sg~guy]

yup,..i have had my cab loaded with scumbacks (2)M75's-(2)H75's (65W) for a little over a month now,...and i might start hoarding all the scumbacks i can find!,..very seldom does anything come along that actually lives up to the hype,..SCUMBACKS DO IT IN SPADES!.....put it this way...i have a bunch of vintage greenbacks,...that i am seriously considering selling so i can buy some more/different varieties of scums,

thanx jim

[sg~guy]

and as far as mic~ing the speakers,..i have used the off axis technique (sm57 infront of the M75,..but pointed at the H75),...with very good results!,...but i find the best solution,...to be 2 mic's,..then mix to your taste!.....poof!...perfect!

[silencer eleven]

wait so you bought a second m75? if you mic the first one and have the cut from the h what is the second one for? from what i am understanding it seems like the m and h together will produce some very balanced tones, so one mic on the cab mic the m and two mics will be even better? is this right?

Jordan

[JubileeMan 2555]

wait so you bought a second m75? if you mic the first one and have the cut from the h what is the second one for? from what i am understanding it seems like the m and h together will produce some very balanced tones, so one mic on the cab mic the m and two mics will be even better? is this right?

Jordan

My second "M" is because I still don't really believe in mixing speakers. You do get pretty balanced sounds, but the over-all problem with mixing speakers and micing is that the player will be EQing the amp/effects/guitar to sound its best with BOTH speakers running. Which means theres always a risk of the single mic'd speaker sounding less-then-optimal.

I'm still experimenting, and I'll be putting in the speaker in the next 30 min. to find out.

Right now, I can comfortably say I am HAPPY with my H and M setup, but That doesn't stop us from experimenting:)

[silencer eleven]

yeah i hear you. man i just want to be done. let me know what you find with two m's. i know jim doen't recommend them together in an open back cab but would love to hear what you think.

Jordan

[silencer eleven]

anyone happen to live in southern CA? lunch on me if i can come try your speakers!!!

Jordan

[JubileeMan 2555]

yeah i hear you. man i just want to be done. let me know what you find with two m's. i know jim doen't recommend them together in an open back cab but would love to hear what you think.

Jordan

Alright. Tried them out ( 2 x M75s in one cab)

...and didn't like it.

In fact, I knew I didn't really like it, but the second I switched back it struck me just how much lows are missing by just using the "M"s. SO much so, that I may need to investigate a way to record the "H" speaker better! lol. The dual "M" speakers did sound just fine, but it was all mids which gets boring sounding quick.

I don't think I'd ever do 2 x H75s, too many highs and not enough mids probably. The M75 does a good job of sticking stuff together while the H seems to give you thump and power sounds.

So... looks like I'll be ebaying my second M75 soon:)

[sg~guy]

[QUOTE=silencer eleven;7693527]wait so you bought a second m75? if you mic the first one and have the cut from the h what is the second one for? from what i am understanding it seems like the m and h together will produce some very balanced tones, so one mic on the cab mic the m and two mics will be even better? is this right?


i have a 4x12 with 2 of the "M'' s & 2 of the "H" s,...and yes,..you can mic each individualy or both with the off axis technique,...or experiment with different mic placement's,....i prefer recording with 2 mic's,...gives a much fuller 3-dimensional sound.

[Kostas]

Thats the best part of scumbacks. You don't NEED a 4x12 to get the vintage Greenback tone. I use the 100watt versions of his speakers which allows me to crank my 50wattt on 10 through a 2x12...

What about breakup? When I think of Greenbacks (or Blackbacks) the sweet breakup of late 60's/70's rock tone comes to mind. A 100watt or 2x65watts have the same breakup like 4x25watts?

[pfrischmann]

I have blackbacks T-1221's and Scumback m-75's and had them in the same cab. I was trying to replace a '68 basket weave with original pre-rola's that was just getting too valuable to pound on with a 100W amp.

I used the speakers in the same cab (newer 1960b) with the blackbacks on the right and the scummies on the left.

For me, the Scumbacks were much warmer and softer sounding. The blackbacks were much edgier in the high end, too much for me but I like a pretty old school sound.

Based on my experience, they do not sound anything a like.

BTW, The H-75's are a little darker with more bottom and less top. A great speaker for strat players.

I like the mix of the m-75's and h-75's a lot.

If you really want blackbacks, p.m. me I have three in great shape just sitting on my bench. I'm a scumback guy for life. It's one of the few things I can say that I'm done with the tone quest. I like what I hear and they sound as good and probably better than the old stuff. only because a lot of the old stuff is getting pretty tired.

IMHO...only YMMV etc....

[57special]

I prefer the Scumback 25 watt to the originals, unless I just want a straight rock lead sound. I prefer the original 30 watt Blackbacks to the Scumback 30's. Nothing wrong with the Scumback version, it's just that i think the original 30's are one of the great all round speakers EVER.

[pfrischmann]

That's cool but blackbacks are very different than the originals which to me means pre-rola greenbacks.

[charveldan]

actually the are the T1221 frames, 25watts, 75hz, 16ohm.
Those are the one's you want.:beer:worthless

[JubileeMan 2555]

What about breakup? When I think of Greenbacks (or Blackbacks) the sweet breakup of late 60's/70's rock tone comes to mind. A 100watt or 2x65watts have the same breakup like 4x25watts?

... I don't really think anyone truely likes speaker breakup. The subjects hard since any amp thats making them distort, is distorting on its own already, so one can't say exactly. But From my experience, whenever I've heard and amp breaking up, its always sounded even better with higher wattage speakers.

Since I run a 50watter with an attenuator into a 2x100watt load, I never hear speaker distortion, so I can't really answer your question.