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Wesman61
04-26-2010, 10:04 AM
I retubed mine with JJs in v1, v2 and the power tubes. I am very impressed. The lead channel was something I could work with before but was a little like a mid range focused fuzz sound. Now it barks and growls smoothly like the '68 Plexi model in my RP1000, only better and with a lot more gain! Sort of like the tone on Sweet Emotion. And that's all with the stock speaker!

albertg
04-26-2010, 11:50 AM
I have an update to my post a few days ago regarding a new V22...

I was playing my V22 again last night. About 5 minutes after turning it on, the noise related to the reverb control started again. However, after about 2 hours into playing, I noticed the reverb noise was gone. Turned the amp on again this morning...no reverb noise on start-up, or after leaving the amp on for about 90 minutes. Never heard of self-resolving electrical problems. Do electrical components "break-in", so to speak?? I've even changed my mind about the reverb...while it isn't like a real spring reverb, it does get the job done for most tunes when needed.

So everything looks good with the amp so far. No channel switching problems. Haven't opened it up yet to see if they changed or heat sinked that suspected regulator...

I'm liking the V22 alot. The V22 is more quiet than my BluesJunior when cranked. I still need to A-B the two, but I think the cabinet size/dimensions of the V22 allows for decent tone...it doesn't have that 'boxiness' the BJ is known for... The BJ in a V22 sized cabinet might be the way to go for that amp.

Questions:

How do I tell the date of manufacture of my V22? It's got the red speaker frame and the Date Code is "1002" (Feb 2010??).

Also, I will probably retube with JJ's (Eurotube). Europtube recommends using a bias probe to properly bias these amps. Is there a conversion factor, or a corresponding range for setting the bias using a multimeter at the V22's bias adjust point? ...or is a bias probe truly the best way to adjust bias for these amps??

Thanks all...

Regards

hooch1
04-26-2010, 10:33 PM
Bad news, my new one that I just bought from GC's new stock on Sunday, just had the switching problem. I was able to check it using the exact same method I used on my first V22. I left it on with both the gain and reverb channels on. I'm also using the footswitch. After an hour, I go in pick up the guitar and start playing. Sure enough after only playing about 5 minutes, it drops off the gain and reverb channel and goes silent. Around half a minute later, it comes back up with both channels engaged. Started playing again, only for it to happen again a couple of minutes later.

I said I was going to do the fix this time but I'm not sure anymore. I'm still well within my 30 day return period and GC isn't that far of a drive for me. I'd really hate to tear into the thing to attach the heatsink, void my warranty and then something really goes wrong a few days later.

Arg, I don't know what to do. Maybe third times a charm?

Edit: My date code is 1001 for what its worth. I don't know what it was on my first V22.

Wesman61
04-26-2010, 11:12 PM
Sorry to hear it. Mine is also from a new batch and the regulator does not have a heat sink. I haven't used the pedal yet.

Kreiger
04-27-2010, 12:56 AM
Hmmmm, all these issues. I'm starting to think I should just stick with Fender for my next amp. (Or check out that Epiphone Valve Sr.- anyone?)

Honestly, what good is a "good deal" when your amp starts screwing up in the middle of a gig? And I am not the type to buy a brand new amp then do some hotfixes because of junky components. Also it's not that easy for me to get to and from GC so, I dunno about this guy after all . . .

Wesman61
04-27-2010, 03:30 AM
Hmmmm, all these issues. I'm starting to think I should just stick with Fender for my next amp. (Or check out that Epiphone Valve Sr.- anyone?)

Honestly, what good is a "good deal" when your amp starts screwing up in the middle of a gig? And I am not the type to buy a brand new amp then do some hotfixes because of junky components. Also it's not that easy for me to get to and from GC so, I dunno about this guy after all . . .I've thought about this for awhile but it seems like new tubes and a heat sink take care of the usual problems. I already had new JJ's and a heat sink in cheap. The JJ's made a big difference as did the Emi Wizard I installed. The lead channel really sings now.

fjabjr
04-27-2010, 06:55 AM
Bad news, my new one that I just bought from GC's new stock on Sunday, just had the switching problem. I was able to check it using the exact same method I used on my first V22. I left it on with both the gain and reverb channels on. I'm also using the footswitch. After an hour, I go in pick up the guitar and start playing. Sure enough after only playing about 5 minutes, it drops off the gain and reverb channel and goes silent. Around half a minute later, it comes back up with both channels engaged. Started playing again, only for it to happen again a couple of minutes later.

I said I was going to do the fix this time but I'm not sure anymore. I'm still well within my 30 day return period and GC isn't that far of a drive for me. I'd really hate to tear into the thing to attach the heatsink, void my warranty and then something really goes wrong a few days later.

Arg, I don't know what to do. Maybe third times a charm?

Edit: My date code is 1001 for what its worth. I don't know what it was on my first V22.

Seeing this news makes me sad. I've been one of the guys kind of poo-pooing the bugera because of the reliabiltiy problems yet still really wanting to get one due to features and great tone. I was actually going to order one sometime in the next couple of weeks. Now after hearing that the "new" stock V22s seem to be shipping with the same issues, well, I think I'll wait once again. At this point in time I find it hard to believe that Bugera is not aware of the issues. So the fact that they are still shipping these without addressing the easy to fix problems is a bit disappointing.

I too am not sure I want to void the warranty doing the heatsink fix myself. I am the type of guy that tends to make things worse whenever I try to fix something on my own. :jo

All that being said, I haven't bought one yet and it's possible I could get one that is perfectly fine. Oh the conundrum!!

grizdeluxe
04-27-2010, 07:42 AM
Ive mentioned this before but the first thing I would do is replace the power tubes if I bought another one. They are poor quality and the bias seems to drift with them. They both redplated on me within 6 months. After putting a decent set of JJ's in the bias is consistent and the tone is much better also. The heatsink mod I'm not worried about. I've only had the ch. problem happen one time and that coincided with a tube redplating. A small fan would be the first least invasive thing i would try.

Wesman61
04-27-2010, 07:59 AM
I'm also now doing some head scratching. The problem is that to get an amp with the same features and as good or better tone would cost quite a bit more. And any tube amp may have a warranty but is not guaranteed to not have issues. So would getting a Mesa Express 5:25 be any more of a safe bet? If anyone has dealt with a certain factory authorized repair center in Boise then you know a warranty is only as good as the repairman you take it to.

Ultron
04-27-2010, 09:28 AM
for all of you M13 users out there using the 4chan method, are you using just the clean channel on the V22 and hitting it with the M13's OD/distortion?

That's how I'm using my M13 with my Mesa Mark IIb.

LstManStndng
04-27-2010, 12:03 PM
Hey Ultron. I was running it like that when I first picked up the M13, but then I felt it just took a little something away from the sound of the guitar going straight into the amp first. It gave it that almost modeling amp vibe. It was just a minor thing but I ended up just running the M13 in the loop and sticking with the V's OD channel. It sounds more organic to me that way. Since I'm using the amp primarily for recording now though, there will likely be times when I'll bust out the 4-wire and use the M13's ODs instead of the amp's.

guitarman3001
04-27-2010, 12:38 PM
Hey Ultron. I was running it like that when I first picked up the M13, but then I felt it just took a little something away from the sound of the guitar going straight into the amp first. It gave it that almost modeling amp vibe. It was just a minor thing but I ended up just running the M13 in the loop and sticking with the V's OD channel. It sounds more organic to me that way. Since I'm using the amp primarily for recording now though, there will likely be times when I'll bust out the 4-wire and use the M13's ODs instead of the amp's.


I do both. I run my M13 using the 4 cable method and depending on the song, for some songs I'll use some of the M13's distortions and for other songs I'll use the amp's drive channel.

hooch1
04-27-2010, 12:56 PM
Has anyone had any success getting Bugera to fix the problem?

LstManStndng
04-27-2010, 01:57 PM
I do both. I run my M13 using the 4 cable method and depending on the song, for some songs I'll use some of the M13's distortions and for other songs I'll use the amp's drive channel.
Did you notice any change in the basic tone when running thru the M13 first? It seemed to me to reduce some of the Bugera's character a little. I ran the ODs into the amp and ran all the time based effects in the loop...

LstManStndng
04-27-2010, 02:08 PM
Has anyone had any success getting Bugera to fix the problem?
I haven't heard anything else about it from them. I've been away from the forum for a while and didn't have the time to read back thru to see if anyone had gotten a final word on the problem or a fix. When I took mine out gigging, I went to Wally-World and bought a little $9 clip on fan that I set to blow across the tubes (not directly ON them, but in their general direction) and didn't have a single hiccup the entire night running it at max volume, only putting the amp in standby for breaks. So I still believe the issue is a bias / heat issue. I would say until they give a definite answer, just throw a fan in the back.

LstManStndng
04-27-2010, 02:10 PM
Has anybody made or know where I could find a graphic of the front panel so I can make a little cutsheet to write down settings?

guitarman3001
04-27-2010, 02:14 PM
Did you notice any change in the basic tone when running thru the M13 first? It seemed to me to reduce some of the Bugera's character a little. I ran the ODs into the amp and ran all the time based effects in the loop...


nope, no change at all. I have the M13 set like you did so that the overdrives are before the amp and the time based and modulation effects are in the fx loop. Did you have the M13's internal loop set for true bypass or buffered?

ck3
04-27-2010, 04:05 PM
Has anyone had any success getting Bugera to fix the problem?

I am also interested in the answer to this question. After experiencing two known V22 issues firsthand, I am hesitant to try any other Bugera products until the company acknowledges and corrects problems with stock components.

Kreiger
04-27-2010, 04:09 PM
Maybe I am a snob but I don't spend hundreds (even if its a "bargain") on an amp only to have to jerry-rig an effing fan to make sure the pos doesn't overheat in the middle of my big solo.


It's just one more gear headache I would as soon avoid by spending more money on a reliable brand. I wonder also about those who got "good" v22's that had no issues. They are the same amp, so I'm guessing they just had not experienced the heat issues or whatever because of how/where you were suing them (in an a/c controlled room maybe?).

Anyway, I think I am going to pass on Bugera. A few hundred saved quickly because hours ans hours of hassles and headaches in my experience.

Again- Anyone have any experience with the Epiphone Valve Sr? It's similar in wattage and price to the Bugera yet I can't find ANY info on it. Anyone? Help!

_Brandon
04-27-2010, 07:03 PM
It's just one more gear headache I would as soon avoid by spending more money on a reliable brand.
A reliable tube amp?:roll

guitarman3001
04-27-2010, 07:50 PM
A reliable tube amp?:roll


agreed. Earlier tonight I was checking out a youtube demo of a mesa lonestar special and the guy who made the video said the amp crapped out on him twice at gigs.

I don't care how much money you spend on an amp, a tube amp will always have the potential to have problems of one kind or another.

That said, it's very disappointing to hear that bugera put out another batch of V22s with the same channel switching problem they've known about for months now. It certainly doesn't instill a lot of confidence.

champster
04-27-2010, 08:09 PM
I really never expect an amp to be exactly right for me when I first purchase them. If they're close and I know that changing out the tubes and maybe the speaker will give me what I want, then I may buy it. Just trying different tubes and speakers can get costly and eat up many hours. For me the V-22 sounded right to me from the beginning. I expected lousy tubes but I already have a decent supply of tubes on hand. I knew about the switching problem and knew that that could be fixed by changing out a part that cost a buck. In the end I changed out the part in question, changed out the tubes and set the bias. Total time spent was less than an hour. In the end I believe that I have a great sounding amp for a very reasonable price and very little time making the changes I wanted to make.

A few here just flat out hate the amp and can't understand why others would do something like I did or maybe use an effing fan to cool the amp down. They would rather bad mouth this amp and say how great their amp is that cost 3 or 4 times as much. Many of us here don't have much money to spend and are willing to spend a few hours modding an amp to make it work the way they want. Sure Bugera may have a quality issue here, but so do many other companies that sell musical equipment. I'm a big fan of Fender amps and look at how much junk Fender has made.

existentialmelt
04-27-2010, 08:54 PM
Maybe I am a snob but I don't spend hundreds (even if its a "bargain") on an amp only to have to jerry-rig an effing fan to make sure the pos doesn't overheat in the middle of my big solo.


It's just one more gear headache I would as soon avoid by spending more money on a reliable brand. I wonder also about those who got "good" v22's that had no issues. They are the same amp, so I'm guessing they just had not experienced the heat issues or whatever because of how/where you were suing them (in an a/c controlled room maybe?).

Anyway, I think I am going to pass on Bugera. A few hundred saved quickly because hours ans hours of hassles and headaches in my experience.

Again- Anyone have any experience with the Epiphone Valve Sr? It's similar in wattage and price to the Bugera yet I can't find ANY info on it. Anyone? Help!

I run my V-22 in a hot garage at high volumes and for at least couple hours at a time. No problems whatsoever. :dude

hooch1
04-27-2010, 09:15 PM
Has anyone every had the switching problem occur without the footswitch? I tried it again tonight (with the footswitch) and after about 30 minutes the gain channel was pretty much unusable. I didn't think to try disconnecting the footswitch. I might try that tomorrow if I don't take it back.

Kreiger
04-27-2010, 11:17 PM
Well my last two amps were a solid state Fender (Princeton 65 DSP) that sounded like shit and cut out all the time and was pretty unreliable-

And a Blues Jr. that never gave me a single problem and sounded pretty great.

But still- these Bugera's are having issues that the mfr. seems to not give a toss about so that worries me as much as the problem itself.

But as someone else asked- is the problem limited to using the footswitch? Because I for one only plan on using the clean channel of the amp anyway-

Wesman61
04-28-2010, 08:22 AM
So now that I've had it a couple days and have had the opportunity to change to JJ's (already had them) and have tried some different speakers I've decided that, barring any issues other than the switching problem I'll be keeping it. I tried it with an Eminence Wizard. Didn't really like it after all. The brightness of the Wizard made the lead channel sound fizzy. Tried an Eminence RW&B. Not bad but could have more clarity. The stock speaker is nice too. Then I put in an Eminence speaker that I got back in '96. I had 4 of these in a 4x12 and a Friend had a 4x12 with Celestion V30's. When we A/B the 2 cabs the V30's had more upper treble but were otherwise identical sounding. Anyway with the Emi the amp just growls in the lead channel. The clean is nice but sounded better with the Wizard.

LstManStndng
04-28-2010, 10:29 AM
Well my last two amps were a solid state Fender (Princeton 65 DSP) that sounded like shit and cut out all the time and was pretty unreliable-

And a Blues Jr. that never gave me a single problem and sounded pretty great.

But still- these Bugera's are having issues that the mfr. seems to not give a toss about so that worries me as much as the problem itself.

But as someone else asked- is the problem limited to using the footswitch? Because I for one only plan on using the clean channel of the amp anyway-

From my experience, the problem has not been related to the footswitch. It would do the same thing whether the footswitch was connected or not. But if you only plan to only use the clean channel minus the internal reverb, you will likely never know that the issue exists.

albertg
04-28-2010, 02:25 PM
Update:

Got my V22 last Friday...supposedly new stock...date code is "1002".

Played the amp about 3 times so far. Each time I turned the amp on about 1 hour prior with volume and master at 5....and played for about 2 hours.

Last night, I used the pedal for the first time in the gain channel with the reverb at 4-5, gain 2-3, volume 3-4, master at 3-4, room temperature was about 60 F. Played about 2 hours at this setting. No switching problem whatsoever, and the pedal responded to both channel and reverb switching without a glitch. The reverb-related noise I reported earlier has gone and never returned.

Real happy so far. I'll keep testing up until the return deadline. I hope to keep this amp. It does blues and classic rock well without OD/Dist pedals.

Spudman
04-29-2010, 10:45 AM
But as someone else asked- is the problem limited to using the footswitch? Because I for one only plan on using the clean channel of the amp anyway-

I've been using only the clean channel with an M13 in front since December gigging 2 nights every weekend and rehearsals during the week. I have had NO issues with the amp. I don't use the Bugera supplied footswitch and I run the internal reverb at about 3 all the time.

Eak
04-29-2010, 11:53 AM
I'm joining the V22 club tonight! Saw one on craigslist for $200 and I really just couldn't pass it up. The guy who's selling it replaced the stock speaker with a WGS HM75. I really haven't heard much about the speaker so I don't know how well it's gonna turn out, but I get the stock speaker too.

Can't wait.

Wesman61
04-29-2010, 05:51 PM
I'm joining the V22 club tonight! Saw one on craigslist for $200 and I really just couldn't pass it up. The guy who's selling it replaced the stock speaker with a WGS HM75. I really haven't heard much about the speaker so I don't know how well it's gonna turn out, but I get the stock speaker too.

Can't wait.I'd change the speaker. I'm still trying to decide what to get though.

EDIT:I hit the BIN for a couple of WGS Veteran 30's last night. Guess we'll see how those sound with the V22.

Spudman
04-30-2010, 05:06 PM
For all the guys that just want to dis Bugera read this (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=712091)

Seems even the other companies have issues.

Wesman61
04-30-2010, 06:09 PM
For all the guys that just want to dis Bugera read this (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=712091)

Seems even the other companies have issues.

I like Mesa amps and don't want to single them out but this is why I'll keep my V22. It's breaking in nicely and really sounding sweet. I snagged a couple of WGS Veteran30's off ebay last night. I'm looking forward to trying them.

Eak
04-30-2010, 06:53 PM
I'd change the speaker. I'm still trying to decide what to get though.

EDIT:I hit the BIN for a couple of WGS Veteran 30's last night. Guess we'll see how those sound with the V22.

I'd like to hear how that goes.

So far, I'm loving the amp. It really lives up to the hype it get on here. It's hard to find an unusable tone on this thing.

The only thing is, I was trying to get the tube cage off and stripped on of the screw heads pretty bad. Does anyone know how I can get it out without damaging anything?

salsage
04-30-2010, 07:00 PM
I'd like to hear how that goes.

So far, I'm loving the amp. It really lives up to the hype it get on here. It's hard to find an unusable tone on this thing.

The only thing is, I was trying to get the tube cage off and stripped on of the screw heads pretty bad. Does anyone know how I can get it out without damaging anything?

5 months and I'm still very happy!

I would try a small Vise Grip first and then if all else failed....
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001TLIJU2/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B0002SDAIY&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0WWHHHKT1CWMXNPXGMYJ

RobH
04-30-2010, 07:07 PM
I'd like to hear how that goes.

So far, I'm loving the amp. It really lives up to the hype it get on here. It's hard to find an unusable tone on this thing.

The only thing is, I was trying to get the tube cage off and stripped on of the screw heads pretty bad. Does anyone know how I can get it out without damaging anything?

If you can get to it try and grab the screw with vice grips...
Or you can use a hacksaw to cut a groove in the head wide enough to use a flat tipped screwdriver.

If all else fails you may have to use a drill bit to take the head of the screw off. If you have to go that way be careful not to let any swath get inside the chasis...all it takes is one tiny bit of metal to make its way into the amp to make it go pop.

Masking tape will stop accidental scratches & doublesided tapeand/or magnets will trap any shavings.

Eak
04-30-2010, 07:19 PM
Thanks guys. I got it out with a pair of vice grips. I'm gonna blame it on the cheap Chinese screw and not myself because I feel better that way.

Wesman61
04-30-2010, 08:32 PM
I'd like to hear how that goes.

So far, I'm loving the amp. It really lives up to the hype it get on here. It's hard to find an unusable tone on this thing.I'll report when I get a chance to test them out. I've also tested other speakers. I'm really tired right now so I'll give details after I get some sleep.

vicdeluca71
04-30-2010, 10:32 PM
Thanks guys. I got it out with a pair of vice grips. I'm gonna blame it on the cheap Chinese screw and not myself because I feel better that way.

I laughed at this post,nice one.Good advise above with the vice grips and the last resort drilling,I do mechanical work(not automotive)and found throught the years this is the best method to remove a stripped screw.I can't count how many times I've cursed "piece of shit Chinese junk",and it's generally true but I'm mature enough to know it's not their(China's)fault.WTS,I'm lovin the tones from my v22

hooch1
05-01-2010, 10:45 PM
For what its worth, I could not get the channel switch thing to happen without the footswitch connected on this one. It happens very often once I connect the footswitch. It still makes an occasional muffled popping sound on channel 2 but that just may because of the tubes. Anyway, this amp might be perfect for those that don't plan on using the footswitch.

Wesman61
05-01-2010, 10:48 PM
For what its worth, I could not get the channel switch thing to happen without the footswitch connected on this one. It happens very often once I connect the footswitch. It still makes an occasional muffled popping sound on channel 2 but that just may because of the tubes. Anyway, this amp might be perfect for those that don't plan on using the footswitch.I haven't even taken the foot switch out of the box yet. Guess I better try it out since I love the lead channel.

dragonfly66
05-03-2010, 09:39 PM
Has anyone noticed a slight hum on their V22 when they switch to Triode mode from Pentode??? Not much, but definately louder than the Pentode mode.

Thanks.

Chris

I have no hum on Pentode and a very loud noticeable hum on triode. Mine also started cutting out between channels and the reverb fades in and out.

The sad thing is I thought the amp sounded muddy, but tonight when I was playing I saw the Presence knob. I honest don't remember it being there, LOL, but I was able to dial in a perfect sound. And right after that the channel and reverb fading started happening.

Bummer. I'm not sure how I feel about trying another one.

Wesman61
05-03-2010, 10:54 PM
I've read a few amp tech books over the years. I remember reading somewhere that EL84's can be noisy in triode mode. That said mine isn't any noisier in triode mode. What tubes are you using?

dragonfly66
05-04-2010, 12:39 PM
I've read a few amp tech books over the years. I remember reading somewhere that EL84's can be noisy in triode mode. That said mine isn't any noisier in triode mode. What tubes are you using?

I'm using the stock tubes, but the hum is there when the master volume is at zero and it is in standby. If I flip the switch back and forth between modes the hum goes away but it eventually comes back. I don't think it is the tubes I think there is something else going on.

Too many things to figure out on this amp. Maybe they'll have it all worked out in a year or two. By then the amps will likely cost more, but maybe they'll work.

albertg
05-04-2010, 04:58 PM
I've had the V22 almost 2 weeks now...played about 5-6 times for about 2+ hours...last 2 times I tried the triode mode in both clean and gain channels, with and without footswitch. No problems yet. Haven't needed my OD/Dist pedal. I set the clean and gain channel settings and use the footswitch for back and forth.

Sounds real good with my Strat...

_Brandon
05-04-2010, 05:04 PM
I have no hum on Pentode and a very loud noticeable hum on triode. Mine also started cutting out between channels and the reverb fades in and out.

The sad thing is I thought the amp sounded muddy, but tonight when I was playing I saw the Presence knob. I honest don't remember it being there, LOL, but I was able to dial in a perfect sound. And right after that the channel and reverb fading started happening.

Bummer. I'm not sure how I feel about trying another one.
It's normal to hear a low hum in triode mode, based upon a lot of user reports. However, it shouldn't be "very loud", as you say it is.

dragonfly66
05-05-2010, 02:23 AM
It's normal to hear a low hum in triode mode, based upon a lot of user reports. However, it shouldn't be "very loud", as you say it is.

The weird thing is sometimes the hum goes away, but it returns. And the hum is there when the master volume is at zero. I hear a hum when the volume is up and that appears to be something different than the hum I hear when the volume is all the way down. Any ideas?

UPDATE: I ordered a HumX that will be here on Friday. I'll see if that helps.

tostyj
05-05-2010, 11:09 PM
A student of mine wanted advice on what amp to buy, so I grabbed a MF catalog I got in the mail and circled a few amps in her price range. She ended up choosing a Bugera V22. So in our lesson this week I fiddled around with the amp a bit. I was amazed at how great it sounded and how little it cost.....

I had NO idea this amp was creating such a buzz until I ran a search on here! Everyone keeps talking about Behringer and Bugera reverse engineering products (I do remember Behringer copying Mackie mixers some time ago).

So my question is: What amp's circuit or tone is the V22 copying???

It looks like a Bad Cat, but I've tried a few different Bad Cats before and they didn't sound anything like the Bugera. Also looks like a Matchless, but I don't remember what those sound like (tried one many years ago). Sorry if this has already been covered but these threads are way too long for me to read every post.

salsage
05-06-2010, 03:12 PM
A student of mine wanted advice on what amp to buy, so I grabbed a MF catalog I got in the mail and circled a few amps in her price range. She ended up choosing a Bugera V22. So in our lesson this week I fiddled around with the amp a bit. I was amazed at how great it sounded and how little it cost.....

I had NO idea this amp was creating such a buzz until I ran a search on here! Everyone keeps talking about Behringer and Bugera reverse engineering products (I do remember Behringer copying Mackie mixers some time ago).

So my question is: What amp's circuit or tone is the V22 copying???

It looks like a Bad Cat, but I've tried a few different Bad Cats before and they didn't sound anything like the Bugera. Also looks like a Matchless, but I don't remember what those sound like (tried one many years ago). Sorry if this has already been covered but these threads are way too long for me to read every post.

To my knowledge no one has traced the circuit and reported their findings.

Gary Compson, BEHRINGER Austrailia, concerning the Bugera V22, was once quoted as saying:

"It has a clean channel, a distortion channel, a reverb control, and not much else to distract you from getting to the business of making music. It’s not a clone, either. It has it’s own sound, which is somewhere between a Fender Deluxe and a Vox AC30 – and that’s a pretty good place to be."

I've owned mine for 5 months now and I'm still very happy.

vicdeluca71
05-06-2010, 03:46 PM
[QUOTE=salsage;8254864] It has itís own sound, which is somewhere between a Fender Deluxe and a Vox AC30 QUOTE]


I think this description is very acurate,it's what I thought right away

salsage
05-06-2010, 03:57 PM
[QUOTE=salsage;8254864] It has itís own sound, which is somewhere between a Fender Deluxe and a Vox AC30 QUOTE]


I think this description is very acurate,it's what I thought right away


I can hear that also and it is a pretty good place to be!:love:

dragonfly66
05-06-2010, 05:46 PM
My first V22 was purchased from Guitar Center and has the channel switching issue as well as fades the reverb in and out. It also has a very bad hum when in triode mode even with the volume all the way down.

I got a new V22 from Amazon today. Been playing for an hour after letting the amp warm up for an hour and so far no channel switching and no reverb fading in and out. I'll mess with it more this week-end and see if I can work it some more. There is no loud hum when in triode mode, though the amp is slow to go into standby in triode mode like others have experienced.

An FYI on the info on each amp. I found this information on the side of the box.

Amp 1 - Bought at Guitar Center in El Paso, Texas about two weeks ago
Amp 2 - Bought from Amazon yesterday, shipped from Plainfield, Indiana

SERIAL NUMBER:
Amp 1 - S1000276803
Amp 2 - S1000562803

BATCH CODE:
Amp 1 - B80-100113-5659
Amp 2 - B80-100207-6439

ZEE PD:
Amp 1 - PD-217600
Amp 2 - PD-220740

DATE CODE:
Amp 1 - 1 0 0 1
Amp 2 - 1 0 0 2

PASS STAMP:
Amp 1 - there was nothing indicated
Amp 2 - round green sticker

I wonder if there are any similarities for all of the amps the work perfectly and those that don't.

vicdeluca71
05-06-2010, 06:10 PM
[QUOTE=vicdeluca71;8255097]


I can hear that also and it is a pretty good place to be!:love:

If you havent done yet try this,run a maple neck strat thru the clean channel treble-9,mid-9,bass-3 and don't use a pick,there's somethin special goin on there for me

Wesman61
05-07-2010, 03:15 PM
Well I got the Vet30's and installed one. Funny thing is I've had tons of gear over the years but never a V30 type speaker. These are not what I expected. Sizzling high end. I imagined a ballsy, growling, barking kind of sound. They have a tone similar to the Emi Wizard. Maybe they need breaking in but I feel these might be back on the market before long. Has anyone tried an Alltone 1250 or a Weber Sig12B in a V22?

champster
05-07-2010, 04:14 PM
[QUOTE=salsage;8255173]

If you havent done yet try this,run a maple neck strat thru the clean channel treble-9,mid-9,bass-3 and don't use a pick,there's somethin special goin on there for me

I run the bass a tab higher but those are basically the settings I use. I'm also using strats with maple necks, one with hot noiseless pickups and the other with vintage noiseless.

Pikesoldier
05-07-2010, 04:23 PM
i hate to say it, its still a great amp, but i havent touched my v22 since i picked up an egnater tweaker. kinda different animals, but the tweaker is blowing me away.

salsage
05-07-2010, 06:04 PM
I played an Egnater Stack last year that thoroughly impressed me.
Excellent your Happy!

I spent years lugging gear around and have spent the last decade aquiring smaller and lighter gear. I've become a combo kind of guy. The V22 totally gives me the grab and go amp with tone I always wanted.

_Brandon
05-07-2010, 08:41 PM
[QUOTE=salsage;8255173]

If you havent done yet try this,run a maple neck strat thru the clean channel treble-9,mid-9,bass-3 and don't use a pick,there's somethin special goin on there for me
I'll have to pull out the Strat and give those settings a try. I'll tell you what I'm feeling... the middle pickup position on my Les Paul with Burstbucker Pros. I've never really cared for the sound of the middle position on the LP so when I tried it while noodling around, I was shocked.:eeks It sounds full and warm and not at all like what the middle position usually sounds like to my ears. Hard to believe this amp has totally changed how I feel about my LP's tone.

vicdeluca71
05-07-2010, 09:56 PM
[QUOTE=vicdeluca71;8255886]
I'll have to pull out the Strat and give those settings a try. I'll tell you what I'm feeling... the middle pickup position on my Les Paul with Burstbucker Pros. I've never really cared for the sound of the middle position on the LP so when I tried it while noodling around, I was shocked.:eeks It sounds full and warm and not at all like what the middle position usually sounds like to my ears. Hard to believe this amp has totally changed how I feel about my LP's tone.


Cool,since your gonna try I will be more specific-HSS maple neck strat(if not HSS no biggy)volume-noon,bass-9(correction from above),treble-9,mids-9,pentode.Now guitar,bring down the volume pot to about halfway and play the neck pup or the humbucker and play fingerstyle.There is something special goin on there for me

Wesman61
05-08-2010, 12:44 AM
OK, this Vet30 isn't working for me in this amp. :hide2 It's just not a good match to my ears. The low end sounds cardboard-ish. The high end is too prominent. It sounds pretty good with a Peavey Hot Foot distortion (basically a RAT) but I need more than 80's metal for dirt tones. The stock speaker sounds pretty good and is lighter than all the others I've tried.

salsage
05-08-2010, 06:37 AM
OK, this Vet30 isn't working for me in this amp. :hide2 It's just not a good match to my ears. The low end sounds cardboard-ish. The high end is too prominent. It sounds pretty good with a Peavey Hot Foot distortion (basically a RAT) but I need more than 80's metal for dirt tones. The stock speaker sounds pretty good and is lighter than all the others I've tried.

Many have tried a speaker swap and many ended up reinstalling the stock Bugera speaker. I guess the speaker is matched to the amp.
I have a Eminence Governor that was originally slated for my V22 but have never installed it because of all the posts about V30 type speakers not sounding so great in this amp. I may still install it someday to hear for myself. The stock Bugera speaker did break in quite nicely for me.


Why are the "quotes" getting all confused?

Wesman61
05-08-2010, 11:22 AM
One thing to note is that the amp seems really bassy with any speaker I've tried, all of which are physically larger and heavier than the stock speaker. They may have beef up the bass response to make up for the smaller speaker magnet. A good idea since the amp seems designed as a grab and go light weight package.

vicdeluca71
05-08-2010, 07:36 PM
I put a Eminence CR in mine for more headroom which sounds quite nice,but to tell you the truth I'm thinking the stock speaker sounded a little better

champster
05-08-2010, 07:44 PM
Break in stock speaker, change tubes, done.

Wesman61
05-08-2010, 09:09 PM
Break in stock speaker, change tubes, done.
+1:aok

OldToneDog
05-09-2010, 11:05 AM
I put a Eminence CR in mine for more headroom which sounds quite nice,but to tell you the truth I'm thinking the stock speaker sounded a little better


I also have a CR in mine. I also would have been fine with the stock speaker in the v22. I ended up putting the Bugera 12 in my Blues Jr. which was a nice upgrade for that amp.

Tom M
05-09-2010, 09:52 PM
Finally got around to changing the tubes...I couldn't decide between Electro-Harmonix and JJ's so I ended up getting a mix of both. I went with the EH's (matched pair EL84's) in the power section, and I got two JJ's and one EH 12ax7's to swap around for the preamps. There is a definate improvement especially in the gain channel...the clean channel already sounded great to begin with. Another thing I noticed is the EH power tubes completely cured the triode mode hum. :D

jblues
05-10-2010, 09:17 AM
Finally got around to changing the tubes...I couldn't decide between Electro-Harmonix and JJ's so I ended up getting a mix of both. I went with the EH's (matched pair EL84's) in the power section, and I got two JJ's and one EH 12ax7's to swap around for the preamps. There is a definate improvement especially in the gain channel...the clean channel already sounded great to begin with. Another thing I noticed is the EH power tubes completely cured the triode mode hum. :D
Tom,
Did you swap out the 12ax7b in the v3 position? I put JJ's in the v1 and v2, but wasnt sure if I could put any 12ax7 in v3. Have not swaped out the power tubes but there is a dramatic boost with the new tubes. What kind of 12ax7 goes in v3? If I put new power section tubes in, can I bias it just by the sound and a visual of how hot the tubes get? Help please...:huh

salsage
05-10-2010, 11:40 AM
Tom,
Did you swap out the 12ax7b in the v3 position? I put JJ's in the v1 and v2, but wasnt sure if I could put any 12ax7 in v3. Have not swaped out the power tubes but there is a dramatic boost with the new tubes. What kind of 12ax7 goes in v3? If I put new power section tubes in, can I bias it just by the sound and a visual of how hot the tubes get? Help please...:huh


12AX7's are compatible with 12AX7b's and ECC83's. You wont hurt anything. That dramatic boost is probably the JJ's being more high gain.
the b designation is "supposed" to be superor in low noise. Some prefer lower gain pre amp tubes.

salsage
05-10-2010, 11:57 AM
after "poking" around a little , it appears the "B" designation is pretty much a Shuguang thing. This makes sense being a chinese amp and all.
according to the tube store the 12ax7b has more gain and less noise
http://thetubestore.com/sh-12ax7b.html (http://thetubestore.com/sh-12ax7b.html)

jblues
05-10-2010, 12:39 PM
after "poking" around a little , it appears the "B" designation is pretty much a Shuguang thing. This makes sense being a chinese amp and all.
according to the tube store the 12ax7b has more gain and less noise
http://thetubestore.com/sh-12ax7b.html (http://thetubestore.com/sh-12ax7b.html)
Salsage,
can you advise me on baising the power output el84s by listening and observing them for excess heat? Thanks for the info on the pre-amp tubes.:BluesBros

hooch1
05-10-2010, 12:49 PM
Is it safe to say that the 1002 and later dates don't have the switching problem?

I gave up after my second but I'm feeling the pull to try another.

Its such a sweet amp for that price. I ended up with a Peavey Classic 30 which is a good sounding amp but its too loud for my uses. I really liked being able to use the triode mode and the fact that it had a master volume built in. And the reverb doesn't hum like on my Classic 30.

salsage
05-10-2010, 06:09 PM
Salsage,
can you advise me on baising the power output el84s by listening and observing them for excess heat? Thanks for the info on the pre-amp tubes.:BluesBros

jblues I'm no expert but Ive been around the block a few times. I believe the suggested bias is 15-17 mv. IMO you have to use a Bias Rite or similar meter to adjust the power tubes correctly. The bias adjustment measures bias voltage but not current. So its incomplete. Many posters have had success adjusting their bias by ear but to base this adjustment on excess heat sounds sounds like a technique I would not endorse.
After you settle on some pwer tubes, my advice is to have someone with a bias meter do it correctly.

SwedeRacer
05-10-2010, 06:35 PM
So I probably know the answer I'm going to get given TGP's biases, but I'll ask anyway: I've been playing through a Bogner Alchemist for about a year now and like it, but am sometimes frustrated that my tone seems to be hit-or-miss on a daily basis. Some days its wonderful, some days it isn't. Its also super heavy and sucks at low volumes, so count out any sort of coffee shop kinda thing not to mention just the ability to play in my bedroom.

Which then brings me to the question: Will I be happier with a v22/is the bugera actually a better amp? I can probably sell the Alchemist for more then the v22 costs so the deal will pay for itself, and I'll get a more flexible situation out of it.

Here are my concerns though: I'm a huge fan of Warren Haynes, and I really enjoy the dark slightly gainy tones he gets, which I can perfectly nail on the Bogner. Will the v22 get me anywhere in this ball park? Or at least old school Allman tones? It seems the amp can do the straty mayer kind of thing, so I'm not worried about that - I just don't want to lose my favorite tone should I want it. Also, are the cleans beefier on the v22? It seems that they might be, which appeals to me, but I'd like to hear from someone who knows.

Thanks - I do like the Alchemist but I'm very much into a 'modern classic' kind of sound rather then the Metal thing the amp is geared to. If the v22 does that better I'll switch in an instant.

Wesman61
05-10-2010, 07:06 PM
So I probably know the answer I'm going to get given TGP's biases, but I'll ask anyway: I've been playing through a Bogner Alchemist for about a year now and like it, but am sometimes frustrated that my tone seems to be hit-or-miss on a daily basis. Some days its wonderful, some days it isn't. Its also super heavy and sucks at low volumes, so count out any sort of coffee shop kinda thing not to mention just the ability to play in my bedroom.

Which then brings me to the question: Will I be happier with a v22/is the bugera actually a better amp? I can probably sell the Alchemist for more then the v22 costs so the deal will pay for itself, and I'll get a more flexible situation out of it.

Here are my concerns though: I'm a huge fan of Warren Haynes, and I really enjoy the dark slightly gainy tones he gets, which I can perfectly nail on the Bogner. Will the v22 get me anywhere in this ball park? Or at least old school Allman tones? It seems the amp can do the straty mayer kind of thing, so I'm not worried about that - I just don't want to lose my favorite tone should I want it. Also, are the cleans beefier on the v22? It seems that they might be, which appeals to me, but I'd like to hear from someone who knows.

Thanks - I do like the Alchemist but I'm very much into a 'modern classic' kind of sound rather then the Metal thing the amp is geared to. If the v22 does that better I'll switch in an instant.
Hey SwedeRacer, I hate to go out on a limb but here goes. The lead channel is very Marshall-esque to my ears. I play a Godin with Tonerider Alnico IV's and it gets a very fat Plexi type tone when the gain knob is around 3. At first it didn't have that sound but since changing the tubes to JJ's and letting the amp get good and broke-in I really love the Allman's type tones it gets. I'm definitely not a great player but I believe the tone is there.

KGWagner
05-10-2010, 08:33 PM
Will I be happier with a v22/is the bugera actually a better amp? I can probably sell the Alchemist for more then the v22 costs so the deal will pay for itself, and I'll get a more flexible situation out of it.

Here are my concerns though: I'm a huge fan of Warren Haynes, and I really enjoy the dark slightly gainy tones he gets, which I can perfectly nail on the Bogner. Will the v22 get me anywhere in this ball park? Or at least old school Allman tones?

Will you be happier? I don't know. The fact that you're asking says you're not happy now, so you've nowhere to go but up. Is the V22 up? I don't know. We're talking about tone, which is subjective, so only you can answer that. Have you played one?

If you want to sound like Warren Hayes or Duane Allman, it would behoove you to learn to play like them. The equipment doesn't have nearly as much to do with their tone as they themselves do. For some reason, that little tidbit seems to be lost on a lot of players. Outside of some major design differences, most decent guitars and amplifiers can be made to sound very similar with nothing more than a little trial and error. But, bottom line, the player is the magic in the equation. That's why some guys get famous, and most don't. If you're trying to sound like someone else, you need to play like someone else. Otherwise, fuhgeddaboudit. No amount or type of equipment in the world is going to help you.

SwedeRacer
05-10-2010, 08:54 PM
Will you be happier? I don't know. The fact that you're asking says you're not happy now, so you've nowhere to go but up. Is the V22 up? I don't know. We're talking about tone, which is subjective, so only you can answer that. Have you played one?

If you want to sound like Warren Hayes or Duane Allman, it would behoove you to learn to play like them. The equipment doesn't have nearly as much to do with their tone as they themselves do. For some reason, that little tidbit seems to be lost on a lot of players. Outside of some major design differences, most decent guitars and amplifiers can be made to sound very similar with nothing more than a little trial and error. But, bottom line, the player is the magic in the equation. That's why some guys get famous, and most don't. If you're trying to sound like someone else, you need to play like someone else. Otherwise, fuhgeddaboudit. No amount or type of equipment in the world is going to help you.
Well guitar philosophy aside (point noted - I'm a very good guitar player and teacher with more or less my own play style, but that doesn't mean I can't provide people with ideas of what tone I want. Saying "Warren Haynes'" tone is easier and ultimately more descriptive then saying "A woody, bassy les paul tone with a decent amount of gain, but not enough that it would sound gainy") the question still stands. Which is to say: would I still get that tone I love? I haven't had a chance to play one yet - I two jobs so GC trips need to be planned ahead, and I only made the decision to start looking into new amps yesterday.

So yeah - the 'tone is in the fingers' argument is noted, but saying "Play more like Duane" doesn't answer the above question, or my other one, which was "Are the cleans beefier on the v22 then the alchemist?".

guittguy: thanks for the info

edit: also Bugera or Classic 30? Any opinions?

Tom M
05-10-2010, 09:14 PM
Tom,
Did you swap out the 12ax7b in the v3 position? I put JJ's in the v1 and v2, but wasnt sure if I could put any 12ax7 in v3. Have not swaped out the power tubes but there is a dramatic boost with the new tubes. What kind of 12ax7 goes in v3? If I put new power section tubes in, can I bias it just by the sound and a visual of how hot the tubes get? Help please...:huh

jblues, I didn't even realize there was a 12ax7b in there. Perhaps they use the higher output to drive the power tubes a little harder. I may stick it back in there just to see if it makes any difference...thanks for the heads-up.

jblues
05-11-2010, 09:45 AM
jblues I'm no expert but Ive been around the block a few times. I believe the suggested bias is 15-17 mv. IMO you have to use a Bias Rite or similar meter to adjust the power tubes correctly. The bias adjustment measures bias voltage but not current. So its incomplete. Many posters have had success adjusting their bias by ear but to base this adjustment on excess heat sounds sounds like a technique I would not endorse.
After you settle on some pwer tubes, my advice is to have someone with a bias meter do it correctly.
Salsage,
thanks for the advice. Need to learn how to do this sometime........anyone tried playing the v22 through a EPIPHONE 1X12 valve jr. cab??????:BluesBros or the bugera 2x12 cab????

Alton
05-11-2010, 02:08 PM
Did the 7815 voltage reg. swap today and it's running for the past 1.5 hours without a single dropout. Normally once it warmed up (about 1/2 hour - 45 minutes) it would start switching out about every 5 - 10 minutes. Now it works great!

Thanks to all responsible for the faulty part ID and the pics to make location on the pcb quick and easy!

salsage
05-11-2010, 02:59 PM
Did the 7815 voltage reg. swap today and it's running for the past 1.5 hours without a single dropout. Normally once it warmed up (about 1/2 hour - 45 minutes) it would start switching out about every 5 - 10 minutes. Now it works great!

Thanks to all responsible for the faulty part ID and the pics to make location on the pcb quick and easy!

Congrats on getting your amp where it belongs!

I experiened that channel switch 2x at a keyboard players house back in February, it never happened anywhere else before or since. Ive tried to make it switch ..cant:dunno
I had it set up to take to a tech but at this point theres no issue.

Alton
05-11-2010, 03:52 PM
Well, if it does decide to switch out on you at least you know the fix!

2.5 hours now without a switchout. My tube cage seems to rattle more now, to the point where it's annoying. I think I'm going to pull that off and leave it off.

Still a great little amp! I'm even thinking about getting it's bigger brother, the V55

KGWagner
05-11-2010, 05:17 PM
Did you put a heatsink on the replacement 7815, or just replace the part?

http://www.societyofrobots.com/axon/images/axon_heatsink.JPG

Because it may still be running on the hairy edge, just not tipping over. In fact, there's a good chance that simply adding the heatsink to the original part would take care of the problem.

The tube cage rattle is easy enough to get rid of - just get rid of the cage. It doesn't serve any useful purpose. I suspect their inclusion is the result of some ridiculous lawsuit where somebody put a 12AX7 in their mouth before firing a shotgun at their face, and the broken glass was considered a safety hazard. Now all the manufacturers have to put cages around their tubes, and a couple/few lawyers are a couple/few million dollars richer, all at the expense of the consumer.

haven42
05-11-2010, 09:40 PM
I actually am pretty happy with the tone I am getting ... but I have a wierd vibration and cant tell if it is the cabinet or some componant - it's irritating - got it on both amps, but happens on different note from my guitar - it's NOT the guitar cuz I have tried many of mine - it's not electrical sounding , but like some kind of vibrating part?? Went back to GC today thinking to trade em in for a pair of Peavy classic 30's (I like running 2 combo amps in stereo) - but they were out of stock on the Peavys - so maybe the Bugera's are my destiny? Havent gigged with them yet or even played with my band - just crankin em up here in my room - they sound fabulous... minus that vibration. And so, I tried out the Fender Blues delux today - thought for sure that would have headroom - but couldnt get a clean sound at all... period... no matter what - its a great fender tone and I love that overdriven sound... but was surprised that no matter how I set that amp I could NOT get a true clean tone! The Bugeras DO give me that. I dont know if the Peavy classics do or not and was not able to find out cuz Like I said - they were out of stock:(. It's hard to find an amp(tube) that is portable, and gives a great clean sound with headroom before it breaks up - so far , the Bugeras are the best I have found for that which kinda cracks me up cuz they are the cheapos!
What do you guys think - is there something better out there for me in terms of lightweight, loud, CLEAN with headroom?? Thanx!!

Spudman
05-11-2010, 10:56 PM
The buzz in your Bugera might be from all the cabinet screws being loose. I went through and put a screwdriver to all of them on mine and every single one was a tad loose. You don't want to tighten too much but just get them snug and see if it helps with the buzz...then come back and let us know what you found out.

Wesman61
05-11-2010, 11:01 PM
I really wish I knew what speaker would make it better. Of course there's the desire to squeeze a little more tone from it but also I think thestock speaker really lacks headroom and isn't punchy enough. I like it lower but not as much when cranked. Of all the speakers I've tried the American voiced speakers sound closer to the stock speaker. Maybe I need to try a Weber Sig12B or an Alltone.

salsage
05-12-2010, 06:24 AM
I really wish I knew what speaker would make it better. Of course there's the desire to squeeze a little more tone from it but also I think thestock speaker really lacks headroom and isn't punchy enough. I like it lower but not as much when cranked. Of all the speakers I've tried the American voiced speakers sound closer to the stock speaker. Maybe I need to try a Weber Sig12B or an Alltone.

How many speakers have you tried?
I finally tried an Eminence Governor I had sitting around. This is what my ears heard: It was much Louder, more low end, improved cleans. But single notes on the OD channel were thinner. I couldnt seem to dial down that mid/high spike, without losing something, especially on the OD channel. It made the amp much heavier. It wasnt bad it just kinda went sideways. Taking away as much as it added. I'm a fan of the Governor but IMO it is not the choice for this amp. I reinstalled the stock speaker.

I am thinking something like the Eminence Private Jack (greenback) would better suit this amp. Anyone try that ?
If only the Red Fangs (alnico) were affordable...1-12" Red Fang costs as much as I paid for the V22:eeks

guitarman3001
05-12-2010, 07:25 AM
Well guitar philosophy aside (point noted - I'm a very good guitar player and teacher with more or less my own play style, but that doesn't mean I can't provide people with ideas of what tone I want. Saying "Warren Haynes'" tone is easier and ultimately more descriptive then saying "A woody, bassy les paul tone with a decent amount of gain, but not enough that it would sound gainy") the question still stands. Which is to say: would I still get that tone I love? I haven't had a chance to play one yet - I two jobs so GC trips need to be planned ahead, and I only made the decision to start looking into new amps yesterday.

So yeah - the 'tone is in the fingers' argument is noted, but saying "Play more like Duane" doesn't answer the above question, or my other one, which was "Are the cleans beefier on the v22 then the alchemist?".

guittguy: thanks for the info

edit: also Bugera or Classic 30? Any opinions?

the V22 is one of the warmest sounding amps I have played. Like you I also aim for a warren haynes, billy gibbons type of tone. I had a peavey C30 for almost a year. Shortly after getting a V22 I sold the C30. Couldn't be happier.

RobH
05-12-2010, 08:27 AM
I swear my V22 has a Gremlin living inside.
I finally got rid of the buzzes & rattles...what a pain that was...

Anyway, I had some good NOS tubes stashed away, so I thought I would try some in the V22...I didn't see any point to try old 12AX7s but I did anyway and just as I expected, the difference they made was nil.
I tried an 12AT7 in the PI socket.... if shit made a sound I would imagine it sounds like this amp with a 12AT7 in the PI socket. I moved it to V1 and there was a change...the clean channel sounded...ok, but the dirty channel sounded like a super full of really pissed off bees. not good at all.
I stuck the cheap Tung Sols back in and all was good again.

That when I got the awww shits. I'm trying out the amp after sticking the old tubes back in and I go to push the channel button on the amp.....
It just popped off. I may have bumped it without knowing, but I don't see how...

good thing I prefer to play clean.

salsage
05-12-2010, 08:38 AM
.... if shit made a sound I would imagine it sounds like this amp with a 12AT7 in the PI socket.

LMAO:rotflmao

Alton
05-12-2010, 08:55 AM
@ KGWagner
Did you put a heatsink on the replacement 7815, or just replace the part?
Because it may still be running on the hairy edge, just not tipping over. In fact, there's a good chance that simply adding the heatsink to the original part would take care of the problem.

The tube cage rattle is easy enough to get rid of - just get rid of the cage. It doesn't serve any useful purpose. I suspect their inclusion is the result of some ridiculous lawsuit where somebody put a 12AX7 in their mouth before firing a shotgun at their face, and the broken glass was considered a safety hazard. Now all the manufacturers have to put cages around their tubes, and a couple/few lawyers are a couple/few million dollars richer, all at the expense of the consumer.

No, I didn't add the heatsink. Just put in the bare volt reg. I do think it will stand up though. The new volt reg. is a different package. The top of the piece where you would bolt on the heatsink is made of aluminum. The body is silicon. The legs/electrodes were also longer than the original KIA 7815 which elevates the body further above the pcb and away from nearby components.


Yesterday when I finally shut the amp down it had been running for 3.5 hours without a glitch. I'm willing to call this a successful repair.

Yeah, I saw no point in the tube cage either. I figured that since it's a Euro design that will be sold in Euro markets that either a bureaucrat or lawyer scratched it's arse and came up with a regulation or a court ruling that forced this idea on the manufacturer and consumer. The cage will be coming off.

champster
05-12-2010, 06:33 PM
@ KGWagner


No, I didn't add the heatsink. Just put in the bare volt reg. I do think it will stand up though. The new volt reg. is a different package. The top of the piece where you would bolt on the heatsink is made of aluminum. The body is silicon. The legs/electrodes were also longer than the original KIA 7815 which elevates the body further above the pcb and away from nearby components.



Yesterday when I finally shut the amp down it had been running for 3.5 hours without a glitch. I'm willing to call this a successful repair.

Yeah, I saw no point in the tube cage either. I figured that since it's a Euro design that will be sold in Euro markets that either a bureaucrat or lawyer scratched it's arse and came up with a regulation or a court ruling that forced this idea on the manufacturer and consumer. The cage will be coming off.

Same here. Changed out the regulator, threw away the tube cage.

Wesman61
05-12-2010, 06:38 PM
How many speakers have you tried?
I've tried;

The stock speaker. To me once it's broken in it sounds great at low volume. Not much headroom and completely changes the tone when the amp is crankin.' Also Strat's can get harsh with distortion.

Emi Wizard. I need to try this one again since the amp has mellowed some since trying it. It was very nice clean. There was too much treble for me to like it with the lead channel. Sizzling and aggressive.

Emi Swamp Thang. Very nice clean! Big, solid bottom end, sparkling highs, somewhat scooped in the mids giving a Fender tone overall. Lead channel wasn't bad but could be better.

Emi RW&B. Yuck! Way to middy.

Speakers from a Crate VC5212 in a sealed back cab. Not bad but nothing special. Stock speaker was way sweeter.

Stock speaker from a HRDx. Decent. Nice balance. Gave a Fendery tone.

WGS Vet30. This speaker just didn't work at all. The bottom end sounded cardboard like. Bright sizzling top end. I bought 2 from a Guy who said he only used them 8 times so they might need more breaking in but the top end sounded a lot like the Wizard so I'm guessing I won't like them in the long run.

Speaker from a mid 90's Sovtek 4x12. A lot of people don't know these cabs were made in the U.S. and loaded with Eminence speakers. Great bargain if you can find one. The speaker IIRC was rated at 50 or 60 watts. Th cone looks excactly like the cone in a Governor and Private Jack. Tonally it reminds me of a Weber 12F150B I had a few years back. Tight bass, nice smooth highs and a British midrange. Not a mid spike. Just a nice growl. I dicided to put it back in this morning and wondered why I took it out. The cleans aren't as sweet and the stock speaker but it's tight and clear either clean or distorted. I think I'll leave it in for awhile.

salsage
05-12-2010, 07:25 PM
I've tried;

The stock speaker. To me once it's broken in it sounds great at low volume. Not much headroom and completely changes the tone when the amp is crankin.' Also Strat's can get harsh with distortion.

Emi Wizard. I need to try this one again since the amp has mellowed some since trying it. It was very nice clean. There was too much treble for me to like it with the lead channel. Sizzling and aggressive.

Emi Swamp Thang. Very nice clean! Big, solid bottom end, sparkling highs, somewhat scooped in the mids like a giving Fender tone overall. Lead channel wasn't bad but could be better.

Emi RW&B. Yuck! Way to middy.

Speakers from a Crate VC5212 in a sealed back cab. Not bad but nothing special. Stock speaker was way sweeter.

Stock speaker from a HRDx. Decent. Nice balance. Gave a Fendery tone.

WGS Vet30. This speaker just didn't work at all. The bottom end sounded cardboard like. Bright sizzling top end. I bought 2 from a Guy who said he only used them 8 times so they might need more breaking in but the top end sounded a lot like the Wizard so I'm guessing I won't like them in the long run.

Speaker from a mid 90's Sovtek 4x12. A lot of people don't know these cabs were made in the U.S. an loaded with Eminence speakers. Great bargain if you can find one. The speaker IIRC was rated at 50 or 60 watts. Th cone looks excactly like the cone in a Governor and Private Jack. Tonally it reminds me of a Weber 12F150B I had a few years back. Tight bass, nice smooth highs and a British midrange. Not a mid spike. Just a nice growl. I dicided to put it back in this morning and wondered why I took it out. The cleans aren't as sweet and the stock speaker but it's tight and clear either clean or distorted. I think I'll leave it in for awhile.

Thanks guittguy1:)
You've certainly tried a few!
Your experience with the Wizard is similar to my experience with the Governor. too trebly.
The Eminence you have in there now sounds like it has great balance. "Tight bass, nice smooth highs and a British midrange. Not a mid spike. Just a nice growl." Yes, Please! Identifying those older OEM that Eminence manufactured for others can be a real puzzle.
Maybe kinda like a Private Jack? hmmmmm

Thanks for all your info!

KGWagner
05-12-2010, 07:46 PM
@ KGWagner


No, I didn't add the heatsink. Just put in the bare volt reg. I do think it will stand up though. The new volt reg. is a different package. The top of the piece where you would bolt on the heatsink is made of aluminum. The body is silicon. The legs/electrodes were also longer than the original KIA 7815 which elevates the body further above the pcb and away from nearby components.


Yesterday when I finally shut the amp down it had been running for 3.5 hours without a glitch. I'm willing to call this a successful repair.

Yeah, I saw no point in the tube cage either. I figured that since it's a Euro design that will be sold in Euro markets that either a bureaucrat or lawyer scratched it's arse and came up with a regulation or a court ruling that forced this idea on the manufacturer and consumer. The cage will be coming off.
Well, good. I'm glad that worked out for you. I'm thinking of getting one of those amps soon, and I think I'll make those mods right out of the box. Gotta take it apart so I can see its guts anyway... <grin>

Wesman61
05-12-2010, 07:55 PM
Thanks guittguy1:)
You've certainly tried a few!
Your experience with the Wizard is similar to my experience with the Governor. too trebly.
The Eminence you have in there now sounds like it has great balance. "Tight bass, nice smooth highs and a British midrange. Not a mid spike. Just a nice growl." Yes, Please! Identifying those older OEM that Eminence manufactured for others can be a real puzzle.
Maybe kinda like a Private Jack? hmmmmm

Thanks for all your info!That's what I'm thinking. I had a Greenback briefly and it seems to be more in that ballpark than that of the Vet30. I'm really digging it. It sounds really great with a strat and a Hardwire CM-2. Better than with the stock speaker. Also it's punchier than the stock speaker and has better clarity. So far it's the best speaker I've tried for getting the best cross between Brit and American tones.

Tom M
05-14-2010, 02:17 PM
Did you put a heatsink on the replacement 7815, or just replace the part?

http://www.societyofrobots.com/axon/images/axon_heatsink.JPG

Because it may still be running on the hairy edge, just not tipping over. In fact, there's a good chance that simply adding the heatsink to the original part would take care of the problem.

The tube cage rattle is easy enough to get rid of - just get rid of the cage. It doesn't serve any useful purpose. I suspect their inclusion is the result of some ridiculous lawsuit where somebody put a 12AX7 in their mouth before firing a shotgun at their face, and the broken glass was considered a safety hazard. Now all the manufacturers have to put cages around their tubes, and a couple/few lawyers are a couple/few million dollars richer, all at the expense of the consumer.

I put a heat sink on the existing KIA7815 and haven't had a dropout since. My intent was just for a possible temporary fix until I make it to Fry's to pick up an LM340t15, but so far it hasn't failed me. If I ever do change the regulator, I think I'll still use the heat sink because both devices have internal thermal overload protection, which is what's causing the switching problem. I haven't read of anyone having the problem with the LM340 installed, though. It's odd, according to the data sheets, the KIA actually has a higher temp rating...150 deg C vs. 125 deg C for the LM. Maybe the National Semiconductor is just a more reliable brand.

I also got rid of the tube cage.

Wesman61
05-14-2010, 03:20 PM
Man I love this amp! The lead channel is so fat and creamy. Easily sounds better than my Dano Drive, Distortion and Peavey Hotfoot.

jlagrassa
05-14-2010, 04:10 PM
Man I love this amp! The lead channel is so fat and creamy. Easily sounds better than my Dano Drive, Distortion and Peavey Hotfoot.

So tempted to go for this amp, how well does the amp respond to your guitars volume knob does it clean up well?

Wesman61
05-14-2010, 04:24 PM
So tempted to go for this amp, how well does the amp respond to your guitars volume knob does it clean up well?I don't play with the guitar volume much but it does pretty well when I do. If you get one I can tell you that You'll need to change the tubes to really hear what we're all excited about. The stock speaker works pretty good at low volume for me but I like the Eminence OEM (Sovtek) a lot better. The speaker is 15 years old so it's nice and sweet! I think a Weber 12F150B or an Eminence GB12 would sound good.

salsage
05-14-2010, 04:36 PM
Well the channel switching bug got me last night.:mad: It was the third time in 5 months but 3 x too many. I went and bought a VR. After a thorough explanation, The Guru at the electronics store suggested a NTE 968. He suggested it because it had the highest operating temparature range (-67 to 302' F) and he claimed it was rugged. Anyway I ended up putting a heatsink on as well. The Guru said "couldnt hurt". So far, Looks to be a success. An audible "click" happens now. Played for about an hour and have had the amp on steady for over 2 hours now. I'll leave it on for a few more hours and call this a succesful install.
I'm thankful this thread made it so easy with all the knowledge.
Thanks to Alton for some product suggestions earlier today!:)

KGWagner
05-14-2010, 11:19 PM
I put a heat sink on the existing KIA7815 and haven't had a dropout since. My intent was just for a possible temporary fix until I make it to Fry's to pick up an LM340t15, but so far it hasn't failed me. If I ever do change the regulator, I think I'll still use the heat sink because both devices have internal thermal overload protection, which is what's causing the switching problem. I haven't read of anyone having the problem with the LM340 installed, though. It's odd, according to the data sheets, the KIA actually has a higher temp rating...150 deg C vs. 125 deg C for the LM. Maybe the National Semiconductor is just a more reliable brand.

I also got rid of the tube cage.
I think the KIA parts may have been a tad out of spec in addition to being over-applied without a heatsink. That would explain why some people had problems while others didn't. If they only fluctuated by 5 degrees or so, then simply living in Georgia vs. Wisconsin would have caused the problem to show up because of the different ambients.

RobH
05-15-2010, 03:47 AM
I put a heat sink on the existing KIA7815 and haven't had a dropout since. My intent was just for a possible temporary fix until I make it to Fry's to pick up an LM340t15, but so far it hasn't failed me. If I ever do change the regulator, I think I'll still use the heat sink because both devices have internal thermal overload protection, which is what's causing the switching problem. I haven't read of anyone having the problem with the LM340 installed, though. It's odd, according to the data sheets, the KIA actually has a higher temp rating...150 deg C vs. 125 deg C for the LM. Maybe the National Semiconductor is just a more reliable brand.

I also got rid of the tube cage.

Don't look at the maximum operating temperature, look at the thermal resistance.
The National Semiconductor part most likely has a higher Power dissipation ratio than the Korea Electronics part.

This little problem the V22 has isn't caused by a defective part, it is a defect in the design of the circuit.

salsage
05-15-2010, 09:26 AM
I think the KIA parts may have been a tad out of spec in addition to being over-applied without a heatsink. That would explain why some people had problems while others didn't. If they only fluctuated by 5 degrees or so, then simply living in Georgia vs. Wisconsin would have caused the problem to show up because of the different ambients.

I may be a bit of a novice with VR's but IMO the audible "click" I'm hearing with the new VR, is superior to the lazy KIA 7815.
I left my amp on for 8+ hours last night, playing through it on and off.
Looks to be a success!

jlagrassa
05-15-2010, 09:08 PM
Well finally got to try the V22 at GC today, hmmmm the amp had no low end it sounds really bad nothing like some of the clips I heard.... oh well glad I got to try it but the amp was not to my liking!

Wesman61
05-15-2010, 09:12 PM
Well finally got to try the V22 at GC today, hmmmm the amp had no low end it sounds really bad nothing like some of the clips I heard.... oh well glad I got to try it but the amp was not to my liking!The stock speaker has a small magnet for it's rating. Mine has plenty of low end. It was thunderous with the Emi Swamp Thang.

XmasTree
05-15-2010, 09:53 PM
Hey
Have these always been $350? or did they just raise the price?

Wesman61
05-15-2010, 10:04 PM
Hey
Have these always been $350? or did they just raise the price?
That's what they've been.

Tom M
05-15-2010, 10:26 PM
If your on Guitar Center's mailing list (or email) there's usually a 15% off coupon on the back of their mailers. MF probably has similar deals.

XmasTree
05-16-2010, 02:02 AM
If your on Guitar Center's mailing list (or email) there's usually a 15% off coupon on the back of their mailers. MF probably has similar deals.

Good point. I forget about this a lot. ...but I only visit GC for strings and picks.

Nekkark
05-18-2010, 08:55 AM
I had a little discussion with Rolf at Bugera. He supplied some more detailed bias and tube information. It seem the voltage seen at the RCA bias point is meant to match up to Bugera's tube grading system. The bias for other tubes needs to be measured at the socket. He also gave me some tube circuit path info:

The grading information for the EL84 should be like this :

Grade B Grade C Grade D Grade E Grade F Grade G Grade H
13,85 V 14,35 V 14,85 V 15,35 V 15,85 V 16,35 V 16,85 V

We prefer using our "biasmaster" test equipment to measure the current.
Then you can use any brands matched tube pair, the value given above is for BUGERA graded tubes only.
http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/popup_image.php?pID=491

The target current for the EL84 is 22mA.
You can even hear the difference - the V22 sounds really great when the bias is set correctly.



I am so sorry, due to the contracts we have with our service centres, we are not allowed to give the schematics out, I do apologise.

V1a -> Clean level, Gain Overdrive
V1b & V2a -> OD Gain & Volume
V2b -> EQ
V3a&b -> P.I.

Nekkark
05-18-2010, 08:57 AM
$50 off $349 or greater, end today! Online and store

http://gc.guitarcenter.com/promo/savings-kit/online-50.cfm?rel=email&source=4TP0ED&indiv_id=1542842

blakemcginnis
05-20-2010, 04:31 PM
I really wanted to like the Bugera - but after 30 minutes of playing - it's going back. I got it used from Musician's Friend (I should have known better). I turned it on, it crackled for 2-3 minutes and barely any sound would come out, then it started smoking :rolleyes:

I turned it off, and it just kept on smoking, couldn't tell from where, somewhere around the top back of the amp. I waited a few more minutes and turned it on again and it played fine for the rest of the time - but after the smoking incident, it would've had to blow my mind with it's tone for me to want to keep it, and it did not.

I can say this, it's a very nice looking amp, seems to be well constructed...

Time to call Musician's Friend and start looking for another amp, sigh...

_Brandon
05-20-2010, 07:57 PM
I got it used from Musician's Friend

Well, there's your problem.

But seriously, these things are so inexpensive new that I don't know why anyone would buy a used one, especially sight unseen.:huh

blakemcginnis
05-20-2010, 08:23 PM
you got me, dumb i guess.

But it satisfied my curiosity and musician's friend is giving me a full refund.

Tom M
05-20-2010, 10:17 PM
The grading information for the EL84 should be like this :

Grade B Grade C Grade D Grade E Grade F Grade G Grade H
13,85 V 14,35 V 14,85 V 15,35 V 15,85 V 16,35 V 16,85 V

We prefer using our "biasmaster" test equipment to measure the current.
Then you can use any brands matched tube pair, the value given above is for BUGERA graded tubes only.
http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/popup_image.php?pID=491

The target current for the EL84 is 22mA.
You can even hear the difference - the V22 sounds really great when the bias is set correctly.



I am so sorry, due to the contracts we have with our service centres, we are not allowed to give the schematics out, I do apologise.

V1a -> Clean level, Gain Overdrive
V1b & V2a -> OD Gain & Volume
V2b -> EQ
V3a&b -> P.I.


I'd be interrested to know how their grading system translates to the usual numerical values.
Good information, though.

Nekkark
05-21-2010, 07:33 AM
I'd be interrested to know how their grading system translates to the usual numerical values.
Good information, though.

I think its kinda like the TubeDepot.com's bias rating. Once you buy a set and have the bias set properly (the old fashioned way), you simply order the same bias number again and skip the re-biasing. Bugera has taken it a step further and has their bias test point voltages that they have tested against their own tube grades. Not helpful on its own, but does allow you to buy their tubes and adjust the bias with the handy test point.

Now if other tube re-sellers produced a cheat sheet would could do the same thing with some other their rating system.

grizdeluxe
05-21-2010, 08:13 AM
I think its kinda like the TubeDepot.com's bias rating. Once you buy a set and have the bias set properly (the old fashioned way), you simply order the same bias number again and skip the re-biasing. Bugera has taken it a step further and has their bias test point voltages that they have tested against their own tube grades. Not helpful on its own, but does allow you to buy their tubes and adjust the bias with the handy test point.

Now if other tube re-sellers produced a cheat sheet would could do the same thing with some other their rating system.


The problem with Bugeras tubes is that the quality is poor. You might get lucky with a stock set but I didnt losing bith power tubes and a 12ax7 within 3 months, This didnt deter me from loving the tone. I went a mix of new JJ's in the power section with a NOS 5751 in V1 and new JJ's in the V2 and V3.

Made it a totally reliable gig amp that sounds great.

I've said this before when I originated the first V-22 thread. Swap out all of the tubes in your V-22 if you want to hear what the amp can do and keep things reliable.

Nekkark
05-21-2010, 08:36 AM
The problem with Bugeras tubes is that the quality is poor. You might get lucky with a stock set but I didnt losing bith power tubes and a 12ax7 within 3 months, This didnt deter me from loving the tone. I went a mix of new JJ's in the power section with a NOS 5751 in V1 and new JJ's in the V2 and V3.

Made it a totally reliable gig amp that sounds great.

I've said this before when I originated the first V-22 thread. Swap out all of the tubes in your V-22 if you want to hear what the amp can do and keep things reliable.

Exactly. My Bugera tubes where holding up ok, but I swapped them out for a Tunsol in v1, a couple EH in v2/3 and JJ's in the power. Still a bit edgy, but still love it. Got a buddy that is effects freak (his hero is Edge, go figure). He's thinking of getting one to get that true EL84 sparkle. It's stunning.

Spudman
05-21-2010, 08:56 AM
Which location is V1, V2 etc? Also, which location preamp tube will affect the clean channel most and which one the gain channel most?

Can you answer by describing the location such as "the tube closest to the preamp tubes" or "the tube closest to the transformer" or something like that?

Thanks. I want to do some experimenting but am not sure which is which. I also got rid of my stock tubes very quickly as they went south on me in no time at all. I am currently using EH pre tubes and Sovtek power tubes with good results.

grizdeluxe
05-21-2010, 09:26 AM
V1 is farthest away from the power tubes and trannys. Ive found a 5751 in V1 cuts the gain and gets rid of the buzz.

XmasTree
05-21-2010, 07:43 PM
Yay, I finally bought a new one (in the box)
..from Sam Ash! w/ $50 discount

I've played it twice now, both for 2 hours.

Mine works perfect and sounds great. (clean and dirty and reverb)
..though I have not used the footswitch yet...

It's got the reddish colored speaker.

Yay, i've had fun all day!

OH, AND I CAN PICK IT UP!!!!
(I cannot pick up my AC30)

XmasTree
05-22-2010, 05:22 PM
HEY HEY
QUESTION:
the bias area of the amp by the tubes,
What device is used to check the bias? (it looks like an 1/8th inch input, next to a mini pot i guess)
...and is also covered by a clear plastic plate.

Please explain the bias process of the V22

KGWagner
05-22-2010, 05:29 PM
The device used to check bias is called a "voltmeter".

Back at post #862 in this thread the appropriate bias voltages are listed.

XmasTree
05-22-2010, 05:56 PM
...Ok.............
On the amp, there's just one input.
But the meters have a positive & negative (or ground?)
So.....what goes where?

Please walk me through a brief bias of the V22.
It can't be that hard.

One input, one mini voltage pot, ...what's up?

KGWagner
05-22-2010, 06:33 PM
According to what I'm reading, the bias current should be set at 22ma. They put a 100 ohm resistor in series with the grid so you get a 1:1 ratio of milliamps to volts. They bring that out to the test points, where it's more convenient to measure. Typically, they'll color the test points to indicate polarity, and possibly mark them as well. Black is typically negative, and red is typically positive.

So, you set you meter to a range that 22 volts will fall inside, and measure what the bias is at the test points. If it's higher or lower than 22 volts, you adjust the bias adjustment pot to bring the voltage in line. That's all there is to it. If you ever change tubes, you may want to do it again.

Tom M
05-23-2010, 12:30 AM
According to what I'm reading, the bias current should be set at 22ma. They put a 100 ohm resistor in series with the grid so you get a 1:1 ratio of milliamps to volts. They bring that out to the test points, where it's more convenient to measure. Typically, they'll color the test points to indicate polarity, and possibly mark them as well. Black is typically negative, and red is typically positive.

So, you set you meter to a range that 22 volts will fall inside, and measure what the bias is at the test points. If it's higher or lower than 22 volts, you adjust the bias adjustment pot to bring the voltage in line. That's all there is to it. If you ever change tubes, you may want to do it again.

The 22ma is a typical idle current target for an EL84 with a plate voltage about 350 volts, give or take. A negative voltage is applied to the grid to impede or restrict the free flow of electrons from the plate to the cathode when no signal is present. This is the negative voltage you're reading at the test point. I think the grid resistor is used to prevent oscillations.

A more accurate way to set the bias would be to have a 1 ohm resistor between the cathode and ground of each tube, and then measure the voltage drop across the resistor. Then you would actually be reading a function of the current...using ohm's law I=V/R, setting the bias adjustment so you read 22mV across the resistor would equal 22mA of current flow (22mA = 22mV/1 ohm).

KGWagner
05-23-2010, 04:36 AM
A more accurate way to set the bias would be to have a 1 ohm resistor between the cathode and ground of each tube, and then measure the voltage drop across the resistor. Then you would actually be reading a function of the current...using ohm's law I=V/R, setting the bias adjustment so you read 22mV across the resistor would equal 22mA of current flow (22mA = 22mV/1 ohm).
That's the resistor I'm thinking of. I don't know why I said grid. Must've had a brain fart <grin>

Tom M
05-23-2010, 11:04 AM
That's the resistor I'm thinking of. I don't know why I said grid. Must've had a brain fart <grin>

Yeah, I knew what you were getting at, and I have brain farts all the time :)

I know that resistor trick has been done, but I don't know of any amp company that does it. Perhaps it has an adverse effect on performance...I don't know.

Wesman61
05-23-2010, 06:26 PM
I decided to put one of the stock speakers from a Crate VC5212 in the V22. I tried them in a sealed back cab and they weren't too bad but putting one in the V22 cab itself sounds stellar. It really makes the treble sound sweet and the harmonics jump out of the amp now.

Nanooman
05-24-2010, 02:28 AM
I'm slowly sifting through both of the V22 threads, but haven't made it all the way through. I have a simple question. I'm going to be running a snake between my M13 and the Bugera that is quite long. Do I need to use a buffer in the FX loop out? I have the luxury of asking the builder of my other amp directly, but not so much Bugera. Has anyone covered this already?

Thanks in advance
Jordan

darkstar11
05-24-2010, 04:47 AM
I am considering buying a V22. I play in a classic rock cover band 70-90s music...Gigging or practicing 1-2 times a week at various clubs, bars and some outdoor events.

The Bugera looks like a great value and the tone is perfectly acceptable.

So my question is... how is the reliability under Gig conditions ... will I be happy 2 years from now?

KGWagner
05-24-2010, 05:41 AM
The Bugera looks like a great value and the tone is perfectly acceptable.

So my question is... how is the reliability under Gig conditions ... will I be happy 2 years from now?

I don't have a V22, but I have a V5 that I've torn down and scrutinized, and if the V22 is built anything like this V5 I'd say you have less to worry about than you might with some other stuff out there.

But, it is a tube amp, and they're notoriously balky little rascals. The tubes themselves are fragile, just for starters, and there are high voltages and temperatures that are a part of normal operation. Tube amps also have dramatically more connections that can get intermittent or fail simply because so many parts are socketed, but the temperature variations can wreak havoc on the PC board connectors that exist for any type of amp out now. Plus, you've got all that vibration, and the constant moving of the gear. It's a wonder amps last as long as they do, really.

But, what's worst case? The things cost $300 new if you buy them right. So, if you only got 2 years out of it and had to toss it, you're only talking about $12/mo. to own it. I'll wager you're paying a helluva lot more than that for your cellphone. Unless you drink moose piss, you can't even get a 12 pack of beer for $12.

On the plus side, the little rascals sound great, and if somebody steals it or it gets destroyed somehow, you're only out $300. So, I wouldn't worry about it. Buy two.

guitarman3001
05-24-2010, 06:47 AM
I am considering buying a V22. I play in a classic rock cover band 70-90s music...Gigging or practicing 1-2 times a week at various clubs, bars and some outdoor events.

The Bugera looks like a great value and the tone is perfectly acceptable.

So my question is... how is the reliability under Gig conditions ... will I be happy 2 years from now?


The stock tubes suck. I'd replace them as soon as you get the amp. I used the stock tubes on mine and within a month or so a preamp tube went microphonic. This past weekend my power tubes started to fizzle. I'll be putting new ones in when I get home tonight.

Aside from that, it's a great amp. I have a bunch of other amps and cabs but the V22 has become my main gigging amp and I have gigged it at least once a week since I bought it about 3 or 4 months ago. It sounds great and is more than loud enough for pretty much any gig, including outdoor gigs.

I play in a classic rock band doing pretty much what you'll be doing. My gig this weekend was an outdoor gig and I ran it unmicd. All I had to do was add a 1x12 extension cab to it and it was more than loud enough.

Only thing to be aware of is the possibility of getting one with the channel switching bug. My first one had it, I returned it, and my second one has been fine so far.

XmasTree
05-24-2010, 12:06 PM
KGWagner, I kinda suspected that you didn't own the amp because of your bias response.
But thank you very much for helping. I'm just not sure if that would be the way for this amp.
*****PIC**********
This is what I was talking about.
There is one input and one mini bias pot. It is found under a clear plastic plate right next to the tubes.
So,
how does this work?
PS
It say's 'refer to the manual' BUT it is NOT in the manual.

http://i544.photobucket.com/albums/hh357/WillyNilly_photos/V22Bias.jpg

KGWagner
05-24-2010, 12:35 PM
This is what I was talking about. There is one input and one mini bias pot. It is found under a clear plastic plate right next to the tubes. So,
how does this work?


That looks like an RCA connector. Judging by the silkscreening, the pin portion of the plug is the + test point, and the ring portion is the - test point. You can either stick + meter lead in the center and the - lead on the ring, or wire up an RCA plug with pigtail leads off it. Measure your bias voltage, and adjust to pot to the value you want. Book says 22.5 volts, so I guess that's where I'd put it for starters.

Contrary to what appears to be popular practice, bias doesn't need adjusted nearly as much as one would be led to believe. Generally speaking, it's a good thing to check when you change tubes. Past that, think of your bias adjust as a carburetor, which is a French word that means "Don't f*ck with it" <grin>

RobH
05-24-2010, 01:24 PM
KGWagner, I kinda suspected that you didn't own the amp because of your bias response.
But thank you very much for helping. I'm just not sure if that would be the way for this amp.
*****PIC**********
This is what I was talking about.
There is one input and one mini bias pot. It is found under a clear plastic plate right next to the tubes.
So,
how does this work?
PS
It say's 'refer to the manual' BUT it is NOT in the manual.

http://i544.photobucket.com/albums/hh357/WillyNilly_photos/V22Bias.jpg

The RCA jack is a test point for the negative grid voltage.

XmasTree
05-25-2010, 12:03 AM
The RCA jack is a test point for the negative grid voltage.

What multimeters have an RCA plug?
I've been looking all over, no sign of 'em......?

Moat
05-25-2010, 01:26 AM
I thought someone earlier in the thread did a proper bias (not using the Bug's RCA test jack) and determined that a reading at the Bug's RCA jack of 15 to 17mV was about where things ended up. And I'd hafta' agree - my V22 barely spoke at an RCA jack setting of 22mV, began sounding healthy at around 18mV, and no louder/better down through 15mV or so... I left it at 17mV, and have gigged it hard for many hours since - still sounds excellent (original tubes).

Reminds me... I should probably get back in there and check it again...

I also think there is a resonant node/peak in the chassis that resides right where the first preamp tube is located (V1?) that is likely responsible for the microphonic tube problems reported (and I, too, experienced). Play a note to get the tube rattling, and run your hand across the different tubes - clearly the first (RH) tube is vibrating hard, compared to the others. I cured mine with a tube swap, but wonder if the vibration is in the chassis' sheet metal bottom, or in the circuit board itself...?

If the former, I imagine removing the rubber grommet from around the tube would help isolate the tube from the vibration. Anybody try that yet? I don't really see much need for the tube grommets, anyway. Can't be good for it's long-term health, shakin' like that, me thinks (although the JJ/Tesla 803S - which I'd think would tend towards microphonics, being long-plate - is holding up just fine after maybe 50-60 hrs. almost wide-open).

KGWagner
05-25-2010, 05:07 AM
What multimeters have an RCA plug?
I've been looking all over, no sign of 'em......?

None of them.

I'm beginning to think you're being deliberately obtuse for some personal entertainment reason. If not, then I suggest you take the amp to a qualified repair shop and have them check the bias. This little exercise may be a little bit beyond your skill set. You're liable to hurt yourself or the amp.

champster
05-25-2010, 06:31 AM
Just take an old cable or buy a cheap one that has RCA jacks. Cut the cable to the desired length of wire. Put on a couple alligator clips and you're ready to go. Just hook that up to your meter probes and check bias reading.

salsage
05-25-2010, 07:15 AM
I thought someone earlier in the thread did a proper bias (not using the Bug's RCA test jack) and determined that a reading at the Bug's RCA jack of 15 to 17mV was about where things ended up. And I'd hafta' agree - my V22 barely spoke at an RCA jack setting of 22mV, began sounding healthy at around 18mV, and no louder/better down through 15mV or so... I left it at 17mV, and have gigged it hard for many hours since - still sounds excellent (original tubes).

I believe that is correct. After reading the posts regarding 15-17mv I checked mine and it was sitting at 16.75. I left it alone.

Its pretty obvious the pre amp tubes are Shuguang. Nice warm tubes. I use them in other applications also.
After trying many combinations, I ended up w a tung Sol in v1 and left v2&v3 stock.

I installed a pair of New Sensor Mullard EL84's and hear a little more bass and a warmer and slightly earlier breakup.Better sounding than stock? IMO, Yes. Way better? Thats Debatable.The power tube swap only changed the mv's by .04.

There was some speculation about who made the stock power tubes. Did anyone ever determine the manufacturer?

Wesman61
05-25-2010, 07:56 AM
I checked the bias on mine by getting some solderless banana plugs from Radio Shack. Just get a speaker cord with an RCA plug on one end. Cut the other end off and install the banana plugs paying attention to proper polarity. The red plug connects to the wire that is connected to the inner pin on the RCA plug.

XmasTree
05-25-2010, 12:15 PM
None of them.

I'm beginning to think you're being deliberately obtuse for some personal entertainment reason. If not, then I suggest you take the amp to a qualified repair shop and have them check the bias. This little exercise may be a little bit beyond your skill set. You're liable to hurt yourself or the amp.

Please, I am not handicapped.
Do not tell me to "give up".
If my question were answered by someone like, say: "Champster" ...that would make things very easy.
No, I am not an amp tech but I don't have to be. ...it's 1 jack & 1 mini pot.

Anyway, after reading through another thread, I now have it figured out.

...you gonna buy the amp or what?

KGWagner
05-25-2010, 12:30 PM
Ok, I'm sorry. I just don't want you to get hurt and it doesn't sound like you need pointers, it sounds like you need fine detail, which says you probably shouldn't be playing around with such things. I'm glad you got it figured out.

I don't know if I'm going to buy a V22 or not, but I just bought 2 V55s yesterday which I should see later this week. Supposedly, they don't work, but from the descriptions of the problems they're minor issues. We'll see. In any event, I'll fix 'em and flip 'em. I'm kinda looking forward to the Magician (http://www.bugera-amps.com/EN/products/MAGICIAN.aspx) which should be here in the next month or two.

http://www.bugera-amps.com/images/products/MAGICIAN_P0405_Front_web.png

salsage
05-25-2010, 12:38 PM
This past weekend my power tubes started to fizzle. I'll be putting new ones in when I get home tonight.


hey guitarman3001:wave

Im interested in what el84's you used and what the results are.
Although I have a plethora of pre amp tubes to fiddle around with, I only have 1 pair of el84's to swap so I'm eager to hear the results of the tubes you selected.

XmasTree
05-25-2010, 01:20 PM
That's cool KG
Im pretty handy with a lot of things. solder/wire/pedals/pickups ....so I like to diy, if I can. ...or even to learn something.
But that bias was confusing to me and it took a few posts and research to understand how the hell people were handling it.

My V22 has had NO problems yet. It's only been 4-5 days and it has about 20 hours on it.
The thing with this amp to me is that: I can physically pick it up. (i have an AC30 that I can barely move 2 feet by myself)

Magician looks really smooth.
(The red two-tone thing)

fjabjr
05-25-2010, 04:12 PM
Not that anyone really cares, but after all my whining much earlier in the this thread about the possible lack of reliability of the V22, it looks like I'm gonna pony up and get one. Found one on craigslist and will pick it up tomorrow. It's was sent to the guy to review for a magazine and it's barely been played. So I think $300 is a fair price.

Now I'm gonna have to go back and re-read this thread and the one preceding it to get all the pointers about tube changes, bias settings etc. Should be fun. :aok

guitarman3001
05-25-2010, 04:21 PM
hey guitarman3001:wave

Im interested in what el84's you used and what the results are.
Although I have a plethora of pre amp tubes to fiddle around with, I only have 1 pair of el84's to swap so I'm eager to hear the results of the tubes you selected.


I just finished putting JJs in it. It sounds slightly darker than before but for me that's a good thing. It still has just the right amount of mids that I like. Looking forward to gigging it this Friday.

Kwagner, I can't ****ing wait for that Magician to come out. If it sounds anything like what the specs and features are leading me to believe, I may end up selling all my amps to buy it. Of course, it could turn out to be a huge disappointment but I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it ends up being everything it looks like it should be on paper.

I'm taking off the entire month of June and driving cross country and I'm hoping that by the time I get back in July it'll be out and I can pick one up.

guitarman3001
05-25-2010, 04:32 PM
Not that anyone really cares, but after all my whining much earlier in the this thread about the possible lack of reliability of the V22, it looks like I'm gonna pony up and get one. Found one on craigslist and will pick it up tomorrow. It's was sent to the guy to review for a magazine and it's barely been played. So I think $300 is a fair price.

Now I'm gonna have to go back and re-read this thread and the one preceding it to get all the pointers about tube changes, bias settings etc. Should be fun. :aok


for what it's worth, you can probably get a brand new one for 300.00. Pretty much everyone has some kind of 15% off sale going on for memorial day weekend right now.

darkstar11
05-25-2010, 07:46 PM
Ya... I quietly placed an order for one late Monday using the $50 off of $349 .. it will be delivered to my local GC for pickup. That way I have no shipping costs and if I decide I do not like ... I can return to the store (very cool).

I hope .. it works out. Frankly, I can't think of another amp for $300 or even $600 that does what the V22 does.

As I said earlier or in another thread... I need a versatile amp for classic rock covers... for "run of the mill" bar gigs and various indoor and outdoor venues. Plus it needs to be easy to carry.

I can't wait to try my M9 effects unit with it.........

_Brandon
05-25-2010, 09:48 PM
.. it will be delivered to my local GC for pickup. That way I have no shipping costs and if I decide I do not like ... I can return to the store (very cool)......
I had mine delivered to a local GC too. I called the store after giving it what I thought was enough time to arrive. Not there. I went to the store after another week or so. Not there. After another few days, I called the GC 800 number directly. The guy looked it up on the computer and saw it had been sitting at the store since well before I first called.:bkw I actually had to print out the tracking info showing it was delivered and take it to the store manager for him to go in the back and find it. So don't expect anyone at GC to actually call you when it arrives or actually look for it if you ask.:bkw

XmasTree
05-26-2010, 02:54 AM
I had mine delivered to a local GC too. I called the store after giving it what I thought was enough time to arrive. Not there. I went to the store after another week or so. Not there. After another few days, I called the GC 800 number directly. The guy looked it up on the computer and saw it had been sitting at the store since well before I first called.:bkw I actually had to print out the tracking info showing it was delivered and take it to the store manager for him to go in the back and find it. So don't expect anyone at GC to actually call you when it arrives or actually look for it if you ask.:bkw

:(
yep, that's the way GC plays ball

fjabjr
05-26-2010, 02:08 PM
An FYI on the info on each amp. I found this information on the side of the box.

Amp 1 - Bought at Guitar Center in El Paso, Texas about two weeks ago
Amp 2 - Bought from Amazon yesterday, shipped from Plainfield, Indiana

SERIAL NUMBER: Amp 1 - S1000276803
Amp 2 - S1000562803BATCH CODE:Amp 1 - B80-100113-5659
Amp 2 - B80-100207-6439ZEE PD:Amp 1 - PD-217600
Amp 2 - PD-220740DATE CODE:Amp 1 - 1 0 0 1
Amp 2 - 1 0 0 2PASS STAMP:Amp 1 - there was nothing indicated
Amp 2 - round green stickerI wonder if there are any similarities for all of the amps the work perfectly and those that don't.

Hmm...interesting. I just bought a very lightly used V-22 from a guy who demo'd it for a magazine review. He still had the box it came in. Wish I had seen this post first cause I might not have purchased it. Mine has the same date code as your first one, an earlier serial number and like yours no indication or Pass Stamp.

Well, we'll see if it's problematic. Unfortunately since I bought it used I have no recourse...just have to live with it or sell it. I've already noticed the tube rattle problem but I have a set of JJ power tubes I'm going to put in there. I've played it for about an hour so far and no channel switching problems yet.

fjabjr
05-26-2010, 05:32 PM
As others have already said, after swapping out the stock el84s with JJs...I'm very happy. Now to order some JJs preamp tubes 5751 in V1 and I think I'll be set.

darkstar11
05-26-2010, 07:22 PM
Just picked up my new V22 !!
GC came through quickly !

Ok.. I'm not going to get a chance to play it tonight because the "kids" are sleeping. But I have 2 practices this week and a bar gig next Saturday. So I will have some time to set it up and play it loud.

Wonder if I Should I pick up some JJ's EL84s??

Wesman61
05-26-2010, 07:27 PM
Just picked up my new V22 !!
GC came through quickly !

Ok.. I'm not going to get a chance to play it tonight because the "kids" are sleeping. But I have 2 practices this week and a bar gig next Saturday. So I will have some time to set it up and play it loud.

Wonder if I Should I pick up some JJ's EL84s??Congrats! I'd maybe play with it to make sure you're going to keep it before buying tubes. It will sound better with JJ's though. And I find that the stock speaker sounds great but doesn't have a lot of headroom. Most 50w or higher speakers will have more headroom.

darkstar11
05-27-2010, 04:13 AM
Congrats! I'd maybe play with it to make sure you're going to keep it before buying tubes. It will sound better with JJ's though. And I find that the stock speaker sounds great but doesn't have a lot of headroom. Most 50w or higher speakers will have more headroom.

That's good advice...

By the way is the any significance to the date codes and batch #s on the box. I see in earlier thread someone was discussing it..

Mine is Date Code 1002 and has a Green Sticker in the Pass box.

fjabjr
05-27-2010, 10:30 AM
for what it's worth, you can probably get a brand new one for 300.00. Pretty much everyone has some kind of 15% off sale going on for memorial day weekend right now.

Yup, I thought of that and talked to the guy. He understood and sold it to me for less than the originally agreed on price. $260. So, I may not be able to make any warranty claims on it but at least now I can alter the amp any way I want without worrying about violating the warranty.

So far, loving the amp and other then tube rattle which disappeared after swapping some tube and removing the tube cage, no problems!!! Big sigh of relief...

guitarman3001
05-27-2010, 10:40 AM
Yup, I thought of that and talked to the guy. He understood and sold it to me for less than the originally agreed on price. $260. So, I may not be able to make any warranty claims on it but at least now I can alter the amp any way I want without worrying about violating the warranty.

So far, loving the amp and other then tube rattle which disappeared after swapping some tube and removing the tube cage, no problems!!! Big sigh of relief...

:aok

fjabjr
05-27-2010, 03:59 PM
Did a quick search and didn't see this but was wondering, has anyone thought about or tried replacing the output transformer in the V22? Not sure I'd want to go to that expense but just curious. Does Mercury Magnetics have anything that would work?

Southern ILL
05-27-2010, 04:45 PM
Brand New one in the emporium for cheap.

fjabjr
05-28-2010, 07:01 AM
Emailed the folks at Mercury Magnetics to see if they have tested there transformers with the V22. I received a reply from Paul:

We suggest the VXO-15A-M output and the VXC choke as upgrades for the Bugera V-22 amp.

The VXO-15A-M is designed for use with two EL84 type tubes and it has the 4-8-16 ohm secondary taps.

The VXC choke is only $40.00 and combined with the OT you will get a wonderful tonal improvement in that amp.


Hmmm....now I'm thinking about spending more $$$. :jo

jlagrassa
05-28-2010, 07:08 AM
Anyone use this amp just for its clean channel, how well does it take pedals! I'm still thinking about trying this amp out!

RobH
05-28-2010, 07:35 AM
Emailed the folks at Mercury Magnetics to see if they have tested there transformers with the V22. I received a reply from Paul:

We suggest the VXO-15A-M output and the VXC choke as upgrades for the Bugera V-22 amp.

The VXO-15A-M is designed for use with two EL84 type tubes and it has the 4-8-16 ohm secondary taps.

The VXC choke is only $40.00 and combined with the OT you will get a wonderful tonal improvement in that amp.


Hmmm....now I'm thinking about spending more $$$. :jo





Spend the 40 dollars on a box of strings and wear them out practicing.
that will improve the "tone" of the amp more than an output transformer swap.
Honestly, if you swap the transformer in the v22 you will not make any significant change in the way the amp sounds. Not for the better anyway.

No offense but I can not understand the logic behind buying a cheap amp (a decent sounding one at that) and sinking money into it to make it "better". Honestly, by the time you buy a V22, swap out the speaker, valves and output transformer you still have an amp you wouldn't get 200.00 dollars for on ebay.

bbutler123
05-28-2010, 07:44 AM
Anyone use this amp just for its clean channel, how well does it take pedals! I'm still thinking about trying this amp out!

I use the clean channel more than the dirty. It takes my tube driver pedal just fine. Don't know about any other pedal.

Both channels on this amp are great, IMO. Try it out, for heaven's sake!

Spudman
05-28-2010, 09:11 AM
Anyone use this amp just for its clean channel, how well does it take pedals! I'm still thinking about trying this amp out!

I use mine only on the clean channel with an M13 into the front and it works great. I've surprised a few of the local snobs with it too.

guitarman3001
05-28-2010, 01:28 PM
I use mine only on the clean channel with an M13 into the front and it works great. I've surprised a few of the local snobs with it too.


I use mine mainly on the clean channel with an M13 also but I run mine using the 4 cable method. Once in a while when I'm not lazy and am playing on a stage with enough space, I'll plug in the amp's footswitch and use the dirty channel which sounds amazing also.

From my experience and from what I've read from other people, the V22 takes pedals extremely well.

I've surprised a few people too. I've actually had someone tell me I was getting some great tones from "that bogner duende" I was playing. :aok

Alton
05-28-2010, 02:24 PM
I thought someone earlier in the thread did a proper bias (not using the Bug's RCA test jack) and determined that a reading at the Bug's RCA jack of 15 to 17mV was about where things ended up. And I'd hafta' agree - my V22 barely spoke at an RCA jack setting of 22mV, began sounding healthy at around 18mV, and no louder/better down through 15mV or so... I left it at 17mV, and have gigged it hard for many hours since - still sounds excellent (original tubes).

Reminds me... I should probably get back in there and check it again...

I also think there is a resonant node/peak in the chassis that resides right where the first preamp tube is located (V1?) that is likely responsible for the microphonic tube problems reported (and I, too, experienced). Play a note to get the tube rattling, and run your hand across the different tubes - clearly the first (RH) tube is vibrating hard, compared to the others. I cured mine with a tube swap, but wonder if the vibration is in the chassis' sheet metal bottom, or in the circuit board itself...?

If the former, I imagine removing the rubber grommet from around the tube would help isolate the tube from the vibration. Anybody try that yet? I don't really see much need for the tube grommets, anyway. Can't be good for it's long-term health, shakin' like that, me thinks (although the JJ/Tesla 803S - which I'd think would tend towards microphonics, being long-plate - is holding up just fine after maybe 50-60 hrs. almost wide-open).

A big thanks to you Moat and to all who've contributed to the bias info.

When I replaced the 7815 volt regulator to fix the channel switching problem I wasn't too awful careful when replacing the pcb back in the chassis having totally forgotten the long stem on the bias pot. After a little wrangling I sorted out the resistance to going back into place and when I used my finger to assist the bias pot stem into it's whole I felt an ever so slight movement. I didn't think much of it until I plugged in my guitar to give it a test drive. The sound was in need of Viagra. Not thinking about the bias pot episode I just called it good and moved on to other things.

Later, when my was freed of other clutter it dawned on me that the limp tones were probably because of the that slight movement on the bias pot stem. So today I made some time to check it out. Sure enough it was at 15.17 mV So I made one slight adjustment and it landed at 17.25 mV. It is very touchy and I can't imagine having moved it any more than 1/10 of a turn and I'm being generous. I set the amp back on the floor and plugged in my guitar and ALL the great tones and more were back! Yay!

The cleans were smoother and slightly louder than before my buffoonery and the crunch channel was also smoother. It's a much improved sound to my ears.

I'm kind of thinking that the original bias was at about 16.75 to 17 mV. That tad extra that I stopped at made an amazing difference.

So again, thanks for all the great references and descriptions. Just gotta love this little amp!

fjabjr
05-30-2010, 10:14 PM
Spend the 40 dollars on a box of strings and wear them out practicing.
that will improve the "tone" of the amp more than an output transformer swap.
Honestly, if you swap the transformer in the v22 you will not make any significant change in the way the amp sounds. Not for the better anyway.

No offense but I can not understand the logic behind buying a cheap amp (a decent sounding one at that) and sinking money into it to make it "better". Honestly, by the time you buy a V22, swap out the speaker, valves and output transformer you still have an amp you wouldn't get 200.00 dollars for on ebay.

First of all, I'm just curious. Secondly, If i do some mods to an amp, I'm not doing it to sell the amp on ebay. If I like the tone I'm gonna keep it. Third, I've heard other amps that actually sounded and performed better with upgraded transformers. So why wouldn't a Bugera sound better? Again, this is all just curiosity at this point. The most I may do is swap tubes and I'll be done. But in the meantime, a little research won't hurt.

anoobis
05-30-2010, 10:30 PM
My V22 is still kickin' and it takes pedals very well. I have a Tone Candy Sweet Drive I use on the clean channel that sounds even more Santana-like than the amp's gain channel. I love the lead tones with both. Best $350 I ever spent on gear.

As for modding, I am of the opinion that the company knows what it's doing and it sounds fine right out of the box with the hardware that's in it. It's got the mojo as it is, stock. Perhaps adding a high quality speaker or trannys will throw off the cheaper parts, which are harmonious together.

OldToneDog
05-31-2010, 12:05 PM
My V22 is still kickin' and it takes pedals very well. I have a Tone Candy Sweet Drive I use on the clean channel that sounds even more Santana-like than the amp's gain channel. I love the lead tones with both. Best $350 I ever spent on gear.

As for modding, I am of the opinion that the company knows what it's doing and it sounds fine right out of the box with the hardware that's in it. It's got the mojo as it is, stock.

This is true. The only thing that I have done to mine is swap out the stock speaker for a CR and had I not already had the CR, the original speaker would have been fine. The CR was really not that much of an upgrade. I ended up putting the Bugera in my Fender Blues Jr. and that was a huge upgrade over the stock Fender speaker. So for me, moving some speakers around worked out to my advantage.

fjabjr
05-31-2010, 04:16 PM
As for modding, I am of the opinion that the company knows what it's doing and it sounds fine right out of the box with the hardware that's in it. It's got the mojo as it is, stock. Perhaps adding a high quality speaker or trannys will throw off the cheaper parts, which are harmonious together.

Generally, I always felt the same way. Heck, I never even considered swapping a transformer in an amp before joining TGP! My church recently had a new transformer installed in a Blues Junior. It was like getting a brand new amp (I kid you not). Sounded better, responded to touch better. I was shocked at the difference. Then a friend did the Mercury Magnetics mod to his Blackheart. Again, big difference in a good way. Better overall Mojo (to borrow a word from you)

So I'm wondering why wouldn't it be an improvement on the Bugera. That's all, just wondering. At the very least it might be a more reliable transformer. Now, will I actually do it? Probably not unless I hear of someone else who tried it and got good results. For now, I'm happy with the JJ el84 tube upgrades I've made. I will upgrade the preamp tubes too in an effort to get rid of some of the overdrive channel fizzyness (which isn't terrible, just more than I like).

I'm happy with the stock speaker so won't even bother trying others.

OldToneDog
06-04-2010, 05:46 AM
Generally, I always felt the same way. Heck, I never even considered swapping a transformer in an amp before joining TGP! My church recently had a new transformer installed in a Blues Junior. It was like getting a brand new amp (I kid you not). Sounded better, responded to touch better. I was shocked at the difference. Then a friend did the Mercury Magnetics mod to his Blackheart. Again, big difference in a good way. Better overall Mojo (to borrow a word from you)

So I'm wondering why wouldn't it be an improvement on the Bugera. That's all, just wondering. At the very least it might be a more reliable transformer. Now, will I actually do it? Probably not unless I hear of someone else who tried it and got good results. For now, I'm happy with the JJ el84 tube upgrades I've made. I will upgrade the preamp tubes too in an effort to get rid of some of the overdrive channel fizzyness (which isn't terrible, just more than I like).

I'm happy with the stock speaker so won't even bother trying others.


There's no doubt that output transformers have a huge impact on the sound and feel of an amp. I once blew an output transformer in a Fender due to a faulty speaker which created an open circuit (no load) on the amp. I tried a replacement output transformer that I purchased from THD. The amp lost it's bloom and almost sounded like a solid state amp. Really disappointing and unacceptable.

I was able to locate a used Fender output transformer with the correct part# and all was well in the world again. The amp sounded like a Fender again...bloom and all.

In the case of the Bugera, it seems to do everything well right out of the box. I'm thinking that an output transformer upgrade would be a lot like my attempt to improve the amp by swapping out the speaker. I tend to think that the change may not be that dramatic since the "original formula" seems to be quite good already.

KGWagner
06-04-2010, 07:34 AM
In the case of the Bugera, it seems to do everything well right out of the box. I'm thinking that an output transformer upgrade would be a lot like my attempt to improve the amp by swapping out the speaker. I tend to think that the change may not be that dramatic since the "original formula" seems to be quite good already.

I'll second that. I recently got a couple V55s, which are the identical but higher wattage version of the V22 (they even use the same PC board), and I can't imagine changing the output transformer would improve anything. These things will sing or romp and stomp, with all points in between. Amazing amps for the money. Hell, amazing amps, period. I'm torn, because I was gonna just flip 'em to get the Magician when it becomes available here, but they sound so good it seems a shame to let go of them. You know what they say about a bird in the hand...

XmasTree
06-04-2010, 12:35 PM
I like my V22 more than I like my AC30CCx......
that means something

sc37
06-04-2010, 06:37 PM
Alright..this probably sounds noob, but this is my first tube amp. I was playing with my cousin today and after switching a couple pedals off, I realized no sound was coming out of it. I was wondering if it was a channel switching issue or not, but there is no sound coming out of it at all when running clean. I can hear a faint sound when running the dirt. There has been some tube rattling(isolated it to the preamp tubes) of late so I'm wondering if I blew the #1 preamp tube? FWIW, I notice that the #1 tube is not glowing as right as the other two.

RobH
06-05-2010, 03:16 AM
Alright..this probably sounds noob, but this is my first tube amp. I was playing with my cousin today and after switching a couple pedals off, I realized no sound was coming out of it. I was wondering if it was a channel switching issue or not, but there is no sound coming out of it at all when running clean. I can hear a faint sound when running the dirt. There has been some tube rattling(isolated it to the preamp tubes) of late so I'm wondering if I blew the #1 preamp tube? FWIW, I notice that the #1 tube is not glowing as right as the other two.

Are the pedals running thru the effects loop?
Unplug the leads from the effects loop and see if that fixes the problem.

You might try swapping the preamp tubes around and see if there is a change.
It isn't unusuall to find the Bugera tubes have died...they are junk.
buy a "matched"pair of JJ El84s & a set of Tung-sol 12ax7s and replace the lot if you find you have a dead one.
You will need to have the amp checked to see if the bias is correct too.

Blackstrings
06-05-2010, 01:33 PM
Hello everyone. Thanks to all for the informative posts. The Bugera V22 has recently caught my eye, but the reliability issues have been haunting me for the past few weeks. I have written several notes to Bugera and Rolf Buschmann has replied to my concerns. I would like him to be more specific as to the fixes they have made to this amp , but am relieved that they seem to be addressing the problem. Here is one reply..........


> Good Morning, Bob.
>
>
>
> As I wrote in the last email, we are aware of this, and it
> affected few
> items only.
>
> It is sorted out, definitely.
>
>
>
> There might be a ricochet somewhere, but I don't think so.
>
> All stock items have been reworked, and the new ones can't
> suffer from
> this problem.
>
>
>
> Kind Regards,
>
>
>
> BUSCHMANN, Rolf
>
> Analyst, Technical Quality Assurance
>
> BEHRINGER International GmbH
>
> Otto-Brenner-Str. 4a
>
> 47877 Willich, Germany
>
> IP Phone: 60651 ext 4105
>
> Tel: +49 2154 9206 ext 4105
>
> Fax: +49 2154 9206 ext 4599
>
> Email: SERVTechDE@music-group.com
> group.com>
>
> Web: www.music-group.com | www.behringer.com | www.bugera-amps.com
>

OldToneDog
06-05-2010, 05:24 PM
Hello everyone. Thanks to all for the informative posts. The Bugera V22 has recently caught my eye, but the reliability issues have been haunting me for the past few weeks. I have written several notes to Bugera and Rolf Buschmann has replied to my concerns. I would like him to be more specific as to the fixes they have made to this amp , but am relieved that they seem to be addressing the problem. Here is one reply..........


> Good Morning, Bob.
>
>
>
> As I wrote in the last email, we are aware of this, and it
> affected few
> items only.
>
> It is sorted out, definitely.
>
>
>
> There might be a ricochet somewhere, but I don't think so.
>
> All stock items have been reworked, and the new ones can't
> suffer from
> this problem.
>
>
>
> Kind Regards,
>
>
>
> BUSCHMANN, Rolf
>
> Analyst, Technical Quality Assurance
>
> BEHRINGER International GmbH
>
> Otto-Brenner-Str. 4a
>
> 47877 Willich, Germany
>
> IP Phone: 60651 ext 4105
>
> Tel: +49 2154 9206 ext 4105
>
> Fax: +49 2154 9206 ext 4599
>
> Email: SERVTechDE@music-group.com
> group.com>
>
> Web: www.music-group.com (http://www.music-group.com) | www.behringer.com (http://www.behringer.com) | www.bugera-amps.com (http://www.bugera-amps.com)
>


What was your specific issue?

XmasTree
06-05-2010, 05:30 PM
Hello everyone. Thanks to all for the informative posts. The Bugera V22 has recently caught my eye, but the reliability issues have been haunting me for the past few weeks. I have written several notes to Bugera and Rolf Buschmann has replied to my concerns. I would like him to be more specific as to the fixes they have made to this amp , but am relieved that they seem to be addressing the problem. Here is one reply..........


> Good Morning, Bob.
>
>
>
> As I wrote in the last email, we are aware of this, and it
> affected few
> items only.
>
> It is sorted out, definitely.
>
>
>
> There might be a ricochet somewhere, but I don't think so.
>
> All stock items have been reworked, and the new ones can't
> suffer from
> this problem.
>
>
>
> Kind Regards,
>
>
>
> BUSCHMANN, Rolf
>
> Analyst, Technical Quality Assurance
>
> BEHRINGER International GmbH
>
> Otto-Brenner-Str. 4a
>
> 47877 Willich, Germany
>
> IP Phone: 60651 ext 4105
>
> Tel: +49 2154 9206 ext 4105
>
> Fax: +49 2154 9206 ext 4599
>
> Email: SERVTechDE@music-group.com
> group.com>
>
> Web: www.music-group.com | www.behringer.com | www.bugera-amps.com
>

YAY!

BTW:
This is BLACKSTRINGS 1st POST, so he needs to be grilled!!!!!

salsage
06-05-2010, 08:19 PM
Thanks to the poster who recommended the Fender Hot Rod Deluxe cover for the V22. I snagged a new brown one for $16.99 looks..."vintagy", not padded, but it does offers some protection and fits perfectly.
After trying New Sensor Mullard el84's in my amp I put the originals Bugera's back in. The Mullards were a bit creamier but lost something. I'm fairly certain the Bugera EL84's are Shuguang which also make the well regarded TAD's. Probably less selected than the TAD's but essentially the same tubes. 6 months and no problems with them. I will use the stock for awhile, running Tung Sols in v1 &v2. My amp is Kickin!

sc37
06-05-2010, 09:26 PM
Are the pedals running thru the effects loop?
Unplug the leads from the effects loop and see if that fixes the problem.

You might try swapping the preamp tubes around and see if there is a change.
It isn't unusuall to find the Bugera tubes have died...they are junk.
buy a "matched"pair of JJ El84s & a set of Tung-sol 12ax7s and replace the lot if you find you have a dead one.
You will need to have the amp checked to see if the bias is correct too.
I got my hands on a few 12AX7s and plugged on into the first position. It did the trick and the amp is back up and running. I believe the tube I stuck in there was a Sovtek...it definitely has a grungy-er sound.

After getting the tube in and testing, I started plugging my pedals back in. The amp went dead and started freaking out again. I started fiddling and thought it was the effects loop killing it, only to realize I accidentally hit the 'kill dry' button as I was setting up.:jo

salsage
06-05-2010, 10:01 PM
Tubes can and will fail sometimes.:mad:
Although I have done numerous tube swaps it was always in search of different and better tone and so far, have never had a Bugera tube fail.

RobH
06-06-2010, 05:44 AM
Tubes can and will fail sometimes.:mad:
Although I have done numerous tube swaps it was always in search of different and better tone and so far, have never had a Bugera tube fail.


Well, I sure did! :)
I've had 2 of the original preamp tubes go microphonic & the EL84s were poorly matched. The condition of the pins on the original tubes was poor.
The pins were rough & oxidized

http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n339/Arlowe_111/pincomparison.jpg?t=1275823629



The centre valve is a new Tung-sol, the pins are just as you would expect, the plating is smooth & wearing a bright almost mirror finish.
The two Bugera valves on the other hand have a very dull grey & rough finish on the plating. (I did the best I could to capture this in the photo, but my camera is not the bestest at making photgraphic imaginaries :) )
Even in this pathetic photo it is pretty clear that the plating on the pins is poo.

I have valves laying around that I know are 30-40 years old that don't look as bad as the Bugera valves did.

But hey, the amp sounded great once I installed a "decent" set of valves.

Blackstrings
06-06-2010, 07:44 AM
Many members have complained about the channel switching issues. This was my main concern. He said it affected few amps and not in Europe , but from what I've read in assorted reviews, there were many, many problems here in the US. I asked if the manufacture date could be used to determine if the amp was reworked and he said that they should now be all OK. I'm going to wait a while to purchase the V22 until I'm confident the reliability issues have been resolved...........Bob

OldToneDog
06-06-2010, 10:19 AM
Many members have complained about the channel switching issues. This was my main concern. He said it affected few amps and not in Europe , but from what I've read in assorted reviews, there were many, many problems here in the US. I asked if the manufacture date could be used to determine if the amp was reworked and he said that they should now be all OK. I'm going to wait a while to purchase the V22 until I'm confident the reliability issues have been resolved...........Bob

Makes sense... A date code level that includes the latest engineering changes would have been helpful. Oh well, at least they've made the appropriate updates.

salsage
06-06-2010, 11:50 AM
Well, I sure did! :)
I've had 2 of the original preamp tubes go microphonic & the EL84s were poorly matched. The condition of the pins on the original tubes was poor.
The pins were rough & oxidized

http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n339/Arlowe_111/pincomparison.jpg?t=1275823629



The centre valve is a new Tung-sol, the pins are just as you would expect, the plating is smooth & wearing a bright almost mirror finish.
The two Bugera valves on the other hand have a very dull grey & rough finish on the plating. (I did the best I could to capture this in the photo, but my camera is not the bestest at making photgraphic imaginaries :) )
Even in this pathetic photo it is pretty clear that the plating on the pins is poo.

I have valves laying around that I know are 30-40 years old that don't look as bad as the Bugera valves did.

But hey, the amp sounded great once I installed a "decent" set of valves.

Wow the one on the left looks like someone left it outside in the weather for a while. :messedup Mine dont look like that. My guess is that Bugera is using the non selected cheapest left overs from the Shuguang factory and the premium selected tubes are getting branded TAD or whatever.

XmasTree
06-06-2010, 08:42 PM
Could it be possible that the metal that coats those pins is different from the Tung Sol's?

DIFFERENT METALs?

Either way, the Tung Sol's look way healthier.
I really like Tung Sol 12AX7s. ...they are my "go to/default" preamp tube.
I don't do "NOS"....

salsage
06-07-2010, 06:19 AM
Could it be possible that the metal that coats those pins is different from the Tung Sol's?

DIFFERENT METALs?

Either way, the Tung Sol's look way healthier.
I really like Tung Sol 12AX7s. ...they are my "go to/default" preamp tube.
I don't do "NOS"....


My Bugera tubes pins look more like the one on the right, has a shiny surface but is not as smooth and finished as the TS pins pictured. They probably have their grading system in play with pre amp tubes also and decided to hide non-selected cheapo's in these amps.

I use the Tung sols also. Best sounding new production 12ax7's I have found.
JJ's may be more durable though.

I dont do NOS either. I would like to try some, but I cant justify the $.

XmasTree did I meet you at an amp fest last July in Tarpon Springs?

XmasTree
06-07-2010, 11:12 AM
My Bugera tubes pins look more like the one on the right, has a shiny surface but is not as smooth and finished as the TS pins pictured. They probably have their grading system in play with pre amp tubes also and decided to hide non-selected cheapo's in these amps.

I use the Tung sols also. Best sounding new production 12ax7's I have found.
JJ's may be more durable though.

I dont do NOS either. I would like to try some, but I cant justify the $.

XmasTree did I meet you at an amp fest last July in Tarpon Springs?

No
I've never been to an amp fest before...

darkstar11
06-08-2010, 06:20 AM
OK... I have a slight problem that I am trying to isolate.

Bought brand new V22..it sounded great for a week or so. I used it for a live gig the other night and it sounded great.

Last night was the first time I played it after the gig. At home in a quiet setting. Now it appears to be having a vibrating sound from the speaker ,, only noticable on "low" single notes in clean channel. I took the tube cage off so it is not the cage rattling.

I know some were talking about bad tubes or microphonics?

Any suggestions or advice ... other than taking it back to shop (which I can do.. within 30 days).

Nekkark
06-08-2010, 09:36 AM
OK... I have a slight problem that I am trying to isolate.

Bought brand new V22..it sounded great for a week or so. I used it for a live gig the other night and it sounded great.

Last night was the first time I played it after the gig. At home in a quiet setting. Now it appears to be having a vibrating sound from the speaker ,, only noticable on "low" single notes in clean channel. I took the tube cage off so it is not the cage rattling.

I know some were talking about bad tubes or microphonics?

Any suggestions or advice ... other than taking it back to shop (which I can do.. within 30 days).

Mine had that and I traced it to the metal ledge just below the front control panel. I pulled the chassis and made sure everything was nice and tight when I reinstalled.

Davo17
06-08-2010, 04:43 PM
My Bugera tubes pins look more like the one on the right, has a shiny surface but is not as smooth and finished as the TS pins pictured. They probably have their grading system in play with pre amp tubes also and decided to hide non-selected cheapo's in these amps.

I use the Tung sols also. Best sounding new production 12ax7's I have found.
JJ's may be more durable though.

I dont do NOS either. I would like to try some, but I cant justify the $.

XmasTree did I meet you at an amp fest last July in Tarpon Springs?

You may want to reconsider, at least for V1. I have a Bugera Vintage 5. I scored some old used preamp tubes off of the bay. It included several of the "famous" old preamp tubes. Every one of them sounded better than stock, with WAY more gain. The best were simply incredible. I should mention also the Saratov tubes are awesome, but they would need to be matched in your V22's.

darkstar11
06-08-2010, 07:13 PM
I will check it out....

After a little more investigation.

It does seem now that it is a vibration .. rather than an electronic issue.




Mine had that and I traced it to the metal ledge just below the front control panel. I pulled the chassis and made sure everything was nice and tight when I reinstalled.

XmasTree
06-08-2010, 11:33 PM
try kicking it.
...or a hammer.

darkstar11
06-09-2010, 04:50 AM
try kicking it.
...or a hammer.

Hmmm.... Relic ?

XmasTree
06-09-2010, 11:22 AM
Hmmm.... Relic ?

haha
mmm-hhm ...relic

Tom M
06-11-2010, 10:28 PM
Has any of the guitar rags done a review on the V22? I've seen several small amp shoot-outs in Guitar Player magazine, but never one that included the V22, or any other Bugera for that matter. Why is that? I'd be curious to see how it compares to other amps in its class.

brikus
06-12-2010, 03:45 AM
Has any of the guitar rags done a review on the V22? I've seen several small amp shoot-outs in Guitar Player magazine, but never one that included the V22, or any other Bugera for that matter. Why is that? I'd be curious to see how it compares to other amps in its class.


+1 :aok

KGWagner
06-12-2010, 04:16 AM
Has any of the guitar rags done a review on the V22? I've seen several small amp shoot-outs in Guitar Player magazine, but never one that included the V22, or any other Bugera for that matter. Why is that? I'd be curious to see how it compares to other amps in its class.
I've never seen one, and I've looked. I think Bugera is being "shunned" by the industry for making a mess of the amplifier business model. The forum pundits like to point at the occasional problem as if it's some kind of pandemic disease rather than typical tube amp shenanigans, and blame poor design and Chinese sourcing as a reason to avoid them, but that's just ignorance. I've had and have several of their amps apart and can tell you they're pretty high-quality units. They're wrecking the market for everybody else. Marshall, Fender, Egnator, Peavey, et al are all making their amps in China now, but it's tough to charge $2K-$3K for them when somebody else is making amps of equal or better quality at the $300-$500 price mark that sound just as good or better. So, a little rumor-mongering, ignore them in the press, refuse to carry the line, etc. and before you know it, they've got a bad name. Or, at least that's the hope. It's not working out that way, though. Too many people are buying them anyway and the word keeps spreading that they're some badass little amps. Actually, Bugera could make a lot more money per unit sale if they wanted to, and they wouldn't be suffering the social rejection if they would just double or triple their prices. But, they'd make less money overall because unit sales would go down. There are a lot more people who can afford a $400 amp than there are that can go $2K.

Tom M
06-12-2010, 01:44 PM
Well put, KG. I'm thinking you're probably right.

Dave Shoop
06-12-2010, 03:09 PM
I have no dog in the fight. As an outside observer the sound clips I listened to made four guitars all sound the same.
I think the truth is always somewhere in the middle. Those who have a problem with spending big bucks on an amp get a little carried away and those who own expensive amps are overly protective.

The most consistent lesson to be learned is that in the end you usually get what you pay for and if that makes you happy that's all that matters.

existentialmelt
06-12-2010, 06:59 PM
I've never seen one, and I've looked. I think Bugera is being "shunned" by the industry for making a mess of the amplifier business model. The forum pundits like to point at the occasional problem as if it's some kind of pandemic disease rather than typical tube amp shenanigans, and blame poor design and Chinese sourcing as a reason to avoid them, but that's just ignorance. I've had and have several of their amps apart and can tell you they're pretty high-quality units. They're wrecking the market for everybody else. Marshall, Fender, Egnator, Peavey, et al are all making their amps in China now, but it's tough to charge $2K-$3K for them when somebody else is making amps of equal or better quality at the $300-$500 price mark that sound just as good or better. So, a little rumor-mongering, ignore them in the press, refuse to carry the line, etc. and before you know it, they've got a bad name. Or, at least that's the hope. It's not working out that way, though. Too many people are buying them anyway and the word keeps spreading that they're some badass little amps. Actually, Bugera could make a lot more money per unit sale if they wanted to, and they wouldn't be suffering the social rejection if they would just double or triple their prices. But, they'd make less money overall because unit sales would go down. There are a lot more people who can afford a $400 amp than there are that can go $2K.

Very well said!

I just got through jamming on my Tele through the V-22 and it was pure spank and roar. Love it!:aok

KGWagner
06-12-2010, 07:18 PM
Very well said!

I just got through jamming on my Tele through the V-22 and it was pure spank and roar. Love it!:aok

Amazing, innit? I've got a V55 here, and even the factory speaker does a good job. I've plugged in WGS's versions of the Celestion Vintage 30 (Veteran 30) and Classic Lead (British Lead), and while they sound good, there's no real reason to switch to them. The speaker they put in the amp is not only fine, I think it's well-suited to a 1x12 combo. And I guess I lucked out with the tubes, which is how anybody gets a good tube since they all come from only a couple factories in China and Russia. Hopefully, they'll last a while before going microphonic.

Tom M
06-12-2010, 09:55 PM
I have no dog in the fight. As an outside observer the sound clips I listened to made four guitars all sound the same.
I think the truth is always somewhere in the middle. Those who have a problem with spending big bucks on an amp get a little carried away and those who own expensive amps are overly protective.

The most consistent lesson to be learned is that in the end you usually get what you pay for and if that makes you happy that's all that matters.

That's exactly why I'd like to see how the v22 compares in a head to head (or combo to combo) "unbiased" review...although I sometimes wonder if the partiality of those reviews may be swayed by the amount of advertising revenue the publication receives.

As far as sound clips and You Tubes go, I think there are too many variables involved to pass judgement...mic placement, recording device, PC speakers, etc.

_Brandon
06-13-2010, 01:08 AM
I've never seen one, and I've looked. I think Bugera is being "shunned" by the industry for making a mess of the amplifier business model. The forum pundits like to point at the occasional problem as if it's some kind of pandemic disease rather than typical tube amp shenanigans, and blame poor design and Chinese sourcing as a reason to avoid them, but that's just ignorance. I've had and have several of their amps apart and can tell you they're pretty high-quality units. They're wrecking the market for everybody else. Marshall, Fender, Egnator, Peavey, et al are all making their amps in China now, but it's tough to charge $2K-$3K for them when somebody else is making amps of equal or better quality at the $300-$500 price mark that sound just as good or better. So, a little rumor-mongering, ignore them in the press, refuse to carry the line, etc. and before you know it, they've got a bad name. Or, at least that's the hope. It's not working out that way, though. Too many people are buying them anyway and the word keeps spreading that they're some badass little amps. Actually, Bugera could make a lot more money per unit sale if they wanted to, and they wouldn't be suffering the social rejection if they would just double or triple their prices. But, they'd make less money overall because unit sales would go down. There are a lot more people who can afford a $400 amp than there are that can go $2K.
Well said. Competition is a great thing for consumers.

sc37
06-14-2010, 03:39 PM
Well, I sure did! :)
I've had 2 of the original preamp tubes go microphonic & the EL84s were poorly matched. The condition of the pins on the original tubes was poor.
The pins were rough & oxidized

The centre valve is a new Tung-sol, the pins are just as you would expect, the plating is smooth & wearing a bright almost mirror finish.
The two Bugera valves on the other hand have a very dull grey & rough finish on the plating. (I did the best I could to capture this in the photo, but my camera is not the bestest at making photgraphic imaginaries :) )
Even in this pathetic photo it is pretty clear that the plating on the pins is poo.

I have valves laying around that I know are 30-40 years old that don't look as bad as the Bugera valves did.

But hey, the amp sounded great once I installed a "decent" set of valves.

I had swapped in a Sovtek to replace the dead tube in the v1 position...only it sounded really bad. So I moved them around to get one of the original Bugera tubes into the v1 position only to have that start rattling on me too! I'm sort of disappointed as I like the tone, but the quality is reallllly bad. Think I'm about order some JJ or Electro-Harmonix and give those a shot.

RobH
06-14-2010, 03:58 PM
Your best bet is to get rid of all of the Bugera branded valves and replace them with new (matched) JJs or Mullards in the power section & all 12AX7 Tung-Sols in the preamp.
They are cheap and they are proven to work in the V22.

I can't comment on Sovtek, I didn't have any to try.


Not saying these are better than any others, I just know these work.

Alton
06-14-2010, 05:45 PM
That's exactly why I'd like to see how the v22 compares in a head to head (or combo to combo) "unbiased" review...although I sometimes wonder if the partiality of those reviews may be swayed by the amount of advertising revenue the publication receives.

As far as sound clips and You Tubes go, I think there are too many variables involved to pass judgement...mic placement, recording device, PC speakers, etc.

Hmmmmm... Seems to me that you have almost 64 full pages of unbiased review right here at TGP. Like the song says, "...you can't the sound from a story in a magazine". YouTubes are YouTubes and sound will vary according to whatever your computer has for speakers. And the amps will vary in performance/tone according to whatever speakers they are plugged into. So looking for standards by which to compare just ain't gonna work. The only thing left is to listen at least for the performance characteristics of any given amp and if it piques your interest then get thee to the guitar shop and listen to one yourself in person with your own ears and maybe take along a pal whose sonic judgment you trust..

The thing is there ain't no guitar reviewer who's going to hear the amp for you. That's why you have ears so you can go hear it for yourself. Nice people can make a Marshall sound bad. Good, smart people can make a Soldano sound bad, It's sad that too often they do. Intelligent people can write a incorrect review because they forgot to mention that they're tone deaf.

So the best thing to do here is just get to a guitar shop and go listen to the V22 yourself. If you like what you hear, GREAT! If not, there are plenty of other amps on the shelves just waiting for someone to come along and give 'em some lovin'.

Tom M
06-14-2010, 09:38 PM
Hmmmmm... Seems to me that you have almost 64 full pages of unbiased review right here at TGP. Like the song says, "...you can't the sound from a story in a magazine". YouTubes are YouTubes and sound will vary according to whatever your computer has for speakers. And the amps will vary in performance/tone according to whatever speakers they are plugged into. So looking for standards by which to compare just ain't gonna work. The only thing left is to listen at least for the performance characteristics of any given amp and if it piques your interest then get thee to the guitar shop and listen to one yourself in person with your own ears and maybe take along a pal whose sonic judgment you trust..

The thing is there ain't no guitar reviewer who's going to hear the amp for you. That's why you have ears so you can go hear it for yourself. Nice people can make a Marshall sound bad. Good, smart people can make a Soldano sound bad, It's sad that too often they do. Intelligent people can write a incorrect review because they forgot to mention that they're tone deaf.

So the best thing to do here is just get to a guitar shop and go listen to the V22 yourself. If you like what you hear, GREAT! If not, there are plenty of other amps on the shelves just waiting for someone to come along and give 'em some lovin'.

I do have a V22 and think it is a very sweet sounding amp, and actually there's probably 130+ pages of reviews if you count the Bugera V22 Part I thread. I have never tried an AC15 or 30, or Night Train, or Deluxe Reverb, or Champ, or Classic 30, Black Heart, Blackstar, etc., so that is why I'd like to see a respected publication do a comparison review with a Bugera thrown in the mix for once...if nothing else, just to settle my curiosity. Sure I could go down to Guitar Center and try different amps, but I've never really felt comfortable playing an amp loud in a store, and you can't hear yourself at low volumes because you have the 15 year old wanker cranking heavy metal right across from you. I took a chance when I bought my V22, and I think it paid off, but I usually use magazine reviews (and now internet) to narrow down the field when looking for equipment.

frankencat
06-15-2010, 11:55 AM
Well I just grabbed one from GC using the Father's Day 20% discount. I haven't played it much but I played it in the store in the amp room and got to crank it up and all and it sounded good. I thought it sounded better than the Egnater Tweaker which surprised me a bit. The clean channel I thought sounded especially good and I was able to dial in some nice usable dirt tones pretty quickly too. Can't wait to get it home. :)

Edit: Got it home. Man this thing sounds good. I am really impressed. Good job Bugera :aok

darkstar11
06-15-2010, 07:42 PM
Way to go Frankencat!

It is a very nice amp and for $300 or less It is a steal of a deal!

What amazes me is the variety of tones it can get. Real rich clean tones ... Clean with a hint of breakup.... Plus a real nice bottom end. The gain channel works well with my PRS McCarty with 57/08 pickups with no effects or anything... just cord and guitar........ But it also works nicely with or without my Line 6 M9. I've used both channels while using a range of the M9's Compression, EQs, Drives and Verbs.

I've gigged it and it was fine... plenty of volume.

Tonight, I just played it here at the house for last 1.5 hrs and enjoyed the He11 out of it.



Well I just grabbed one from GC using the Father's Day 20% discount. I haven't played it much but I played it in the store in the amp room and got to crank it up and all and it sounded good. I thought it sounded better than the Egnater Tweaker which surprised me a bit. The clean channel I thought sounded especially good and I was able to dial in some nice usable dirt tones pretty quickly too. Can't wait to get it home. :)

frankencat
06-16-2010, 04:27 PM
Cool. I am about to hook up the M13 and give it a go. :)

frankencat
06-16-2010, 06:22 PM
Hey all, I just threw a set of JJ EL84's in this and checked the bias and it was set it -16.4 at the test point. It sounded a little cold and stiff so I set it down to around -14.8 but it still seems like it could be a tad warmer. I don't want to go too low and I don't have a 9 pin attachment for my bias probe and I don't feel like taking the amp apart to check the bias properly. So for you guys who are running JJ's in these things. AM I in the ball bark and is there a range that you guys have been working with. I read the whole thread - both of them and I guess the consensus is that something around -15 is in the park. Can you expound on that or is that it and has anybody confirmed this with JJ's? FWIW, at this setting I think I like the sound of the stock tubes (Sovteks?) better....but I hate Sovteks, lol. Thanks.

Edit: I take it back. The JJ's wounds better. Much ballsier and nicer.I thought I was loosing it for a second, hehe. SO I found a point that sounds really good with the JJ's...-14.4. I think I will leave it there for a bit.

P.S. I do not like tube cages - especially if they do nothing to hold the tubes in. Tube cage off. ;)

XmasTree
06-17-2010, 12:21 AM
I put JJ power tubes in mine the other week.
I have not touched the bias pot yet. ...i'll get a multimeter before i start turning it.

My amp sounded more raw and gritty with the stock tubes. (i liked it a lot)
I'm wondering if I even should have swapped them.
Yes, i know they're cheap but they worked so well with the amp.
The JJs sound good and everything is fine though. ...they kinda rounded the sound out, with less grit.
my Tele sounds wild!!

BTW FrankenCat:
previous posts say that Bugera/Behringer claim the V22 is set at -22 stock.
previous posts also say that they like theirs around -17 or so.
????
I wonder what mine reads right now......
Oh, ....and f*c* the cage. ...took mine off too.

frankencat
06-17-2010, 07:06 AM
From the previous thread...


Quote:
Originally Posted by OldToneDog http://img.thegearpage.net/board/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?p=6868662#post6868662)
What's required to check the bias from the bias test point? A volt/ohm meter?

Yes, a volt meter - if it's like most amps with external bias test points, the measurement is in millivolts - the test points measure the voltage drop across a precision 1 Ohm resistor that's installed in series with the tube's cathode ground... 22mA of current thru the tube's cathode therefore measures as 22mV of voltage drop across the resistor.


But the reading is 16.n for the majority so are they shooting for a colder setting of 22? What exactly is the relationship between the test point/RCA jack and the actual cathode current? Is the quote above accurate?

Oh and here's another question: are we measuring in triode or pentode mode and does it even matter?

XmasTree
06-17-2010, 09:53 AM
Oh and here's another question: are we measuring in triode or pentode mode and does it even matter?

very, very good question.....
i do not know, myself.......

Tom M
06-20-2010, 11:31 AM
From the previous thread...



But the reading is 16.n for the majority so are they shooting for a colder setting of 22? What exactly is the relationship between the test point/RCA jack and the actual cathode current? Is the quote above accurate?

Oh and here's another question: are we measuring in triode or pentode mode and does it even matter?

In the case of this amp you're actually reading a negative voltage that is applied to the grid (input) of the power tubes. You'll notice that the reading is in volts, not millivolts, and negative at that. The further negative you go (towards -22v) the more you choke off the current flow through the tubes, and your signal also. If you adjust the bias toward the less negative number, say -12v, then more current will flow through the tubes and they will start red-plating...your sound will be more distorted (not in a good way) and noisy, and the tubes will burn out quicker. The ideal setting is somewhere in between...I think someone quoted the guy from Bugera saying usually between -15v and -17v in an earlier post. This method of adjusting the bias current isn't as accurate as the 1 ohm resistor method, but you can get it in the ballpark.

I've noticed the voltage reading has a very slight change when switching from triode to pentode, but it's very close. Mine is reading -16.3v in triode and -16.5v when I switch to pentode, so I think the difference is negligible as far as your setting goes.

Pikesoldier
06-20-2010, 10:17 PM
mine is on craigslist. great amp, but between this and the tweaker, i've chosen the tweaker.

sahertian
06-20-2010, 10:39 PM
Hi,

To what "well known" speaker can the stock Bugera V22 speaker compared??

Cannabis Rex, G12.. I don't know..

Thanks,..
Ron

sahertian
06-20-2010, 10:45 PM
Hi,

Yes did bought the V22.. very nice for the price...

but..

It seems to me that the gain channel is already at a high level on 1,5 or 2.. It's not easy to dial in a little overdrive on that amp with the gain channel..

Some suggestions?

Thanks,
Ron

sc37
06-20-2010, 11:31 PM
Had a friend buy one with the 20% off coupon from Guitar Center...I noticed his had a red speaker as compared to mine which has a black. Any differences at all or any reason for a color change?

salsage
06-23-2010, 06:46 AM
I put JJ power tubes in mine the other week.
I have not touched the bias pot yet. ...i'll get a multimeter before i start turning it.

My amp sounded more raw and gritty with the stock tubes. (i liked it a lot)
I'm wondering if I even should have swapped them.
Yes, i know they're cheap but they worked so well with the amp.
The JJs sound good and everything is fine though. ...they kinda rounded the sound out, with less grit.
my Tele sounds wild!!

I'm fairly sure the stock power tubes are Shuguang=TAD tubes. I personally like em a lot. I tried some new issue Mullards el84's for a while decent but a little soft for me and the JJ's were pretty good but lost something also. I'm runnin w the stock power tubes for now.

salsage
06-23-2010, 06:50 AM
Had a friend buy one with the 20% off coupon from Guitar Center...I noticed his had a red speaker as compared to mine which has a black. Any differences at all or any reason for a color change?

Yeah, they ran out of red paint:rotflmao
Someone with both speakers posted long ago that it was the same exact speaker?

grizdeluxe
06-23-2010, 07:08 AM
Hi,

Yes did bought the V22.. very nice for the price...

but..

It seems to me that the gain channel is already at a high level on 1,5 or 2.. It's not easy to dial in a little overdrive on that amp with the gain channel..

Some suggestions?

Thanks,
Ron



5751 in V1 helps. Honestly I ran the gain around 1 or 2 and cranked the Volumes.

frankencat
06-23-2010, 07:20 AM
So anybody have an idea of where they are at production wise? Has anyone kept track of the production codes/serial #'s to try and see where the ones with issues fall? What are the latest ones? Etc..

_Brandon
06-24-2010, 05:57 PM
I was just thinking that at some point, temperature wise, the switch-over to the clean channel is not a defect, but the amp working as it's designed to prevent an overheat? (I understand that there has been a real problem with unwarranted switching). Since it was over 95F today where I'm located, if I put it in the back of my car for 3 hours in the sun, and then fired it up, I guess I shouldn't be surprised if it switched? Or is that not how it's supposed to work?:huh BTW, I haven't had the switching problem, I'm just curious.

Kestrel
06-24-2010, 06:12 PM
So anybody have an idea of where they are at production wise? Has anyone kept track of the production codes/serial #'s to try and see where the ones with issues fall? What are the latest ones? Etc..

I bought one yesterday that had just arrived at the shop the day before. The date code on mine is April 2010. It sounds amazing for what it is and I thought it was too good to pass up for the $350 price they sell for. I really dig the tones I can get out of the V22. Fit/finish is quite impressive too considering it's a budget-priced tube amp. No sloppiness at all in it's construction and everything works as it should, although I haven't messed much with the footswitch yet. What can I say? So far I'm really liking this Bugera amp.

jlagrassa
06-25-2010, 07:23 AM
ok .... so I just bought a V22 from the emporium for $200 figured thats a great price for this amp to take a chance on, I have tubes and speakers to play around with if I see the need but looking forward to trying this amp!

bluesking55
06-25-2010, 08:52 AM
Yall talkin about alot of foot switch issues, reading a few threads back or another 1, There is a footswitch opamp i think, 1 person put a heat sink on his and never had another issue.
These get so long about this amp, i cant find it
I just got the lil 149.00 Vintage 5, sweet for what it is
I have a bluesdeluxe reissue, lacquered the tweed, biased the tubes.. might sell that or trade for 1 of the Bugera,, always liked 'em

chevy
06-26-2010, 02:41 PM
Read through MOST of the 2 threads here for this amp. So if I missed something please redirect me. I've had my V22 for about 4 months now. Love it. BUT.... i've had a few problems. One with the footswitch which has already been remedied. Now I'm getting a crackling sound from the speaker after playing for a few minutes. I'm thinking it's a pre amp tube problem since it happens after the tubes get warmer. It's definitely not the speaker, I unplugged it completely and ran a 4x12 into the amp alone. Still crackled. Any thoughts?

blackie13
06-26-2010, 03:10 PM
I think it;s the tubes...
Are they stock?

jlagrassa
06-26-2010, 04:32 PM
Read through MOST of the 2 threads here for this amp. So if I missed something please redirect me. I've had my V22 for about 4 months now. Love it. BUT.... i've had a few problems. One with the footswitch which has already been remedied. Now I'm getting a crackling sound from the speaker after playing for a few minutes. I'm thinking it's a pre amp tube problem since it happens after the tubes get warmer. It's definitely not the speaker, I unplugged it completely and ran a 4x12 into the amp alone. Still crackled. Any thoughts?

Could be dirty or loose tube contacts, buy some DEOXIT and spray the pins on the tubes install the tubes and remove them a couple of times to help clean the contacts......... worth a shot to see if that helps.

bluesking55
06-27-2010, 11:51 AM
got 1 yesterday and had the Lil V-5 2 weeks now, what a sweet tone.
Tubes looked good and stout but man are they crap, retubed and removed cages. Take a minute and tighten the screws

How do i set the bias with a rca jack to my multimeter/? does a regular rca jack work? pls help
change the crapola tubes

frankencat
06-27-2010, 02:25 PM
I played my V22 twice in church this week and it really sounded great. I am thinking of grabbing another one for a stereo setup. :)

BTW, I had one of the stock preamp tubes go bad the second day I had it. No biggie, stock tubes are always crap, even in a new Bogner. I am running a Tung-SOl in V1 and JJ's for the power tubes.

bluesking55
06-27-2010, 02:48 PM
2 post up is from my first about this amp, Ive never opened the footswitch, diddling on the 1st channell, reached over and hit the chaneel switch, and dead as as a donut........... Mine is sitting about 6 inchs from a a/c duct and have a fan blowwing beside it
Maybe a thermaled opamp,, naw... not in this case

frankencat
06-27-2010, 03:13 PM
It has been hot as hell here and I haven't had an issue. The footswitch is still taped to the back of the amp as I don't really need it. It was way hot in church this morning and it was running for a good 4 hours with no problems. I ran it at home all day for a couple of days to burn it in and had no problems. So far so good. I hope it is reliable because I am digging the sound and the look of it. Oh and the fx loop works really well too.

Change them stock tubes!

Kestrel
06-27-2010, 05:37 PM
Four days of using the V22 without an issue. Finally got to use the footswitch. It's cheap and feels like a toy, but it works. We'll see just how long the footswitch continues to work. Anyway, I took the Bugera to a jam session yesterday and put it to use throughout the evening without a negative incident. The fellas were impressed with the tone and were surprised to see everything on the amp was stock. Their response was "damn, how much did that amp cost again?" Yeah, it's a $350 China-made amp... Sounds good... How long will it last? Too soon to tell, but so far so good. I was going to swap the valves, but I think I'll wait 'til the stock ones give out just to test their longevity.

chevy
06-27-2010, 07:27 PM
got 1 yesterday and had the Lil V-5 2 weeks now, what a sweet tone.
Tubes looked good and stout but man are they crap, retubed and removed cages. Take a minute and tighten the screws

How do i set the bias with a rca jack to my multimeter/? does a regular rca jack work? pls help
change the crapola tubes

You can get an rca adapter for your multimeter at radio shack. I'm bringing mine to a pro to get biased. He's doin it for forty bucks. I'm putting mesa tubes in.

allendoc
06-28-2010, 04:58 PM
This thread is about to hit 1000 for the second time, someone needs to start part III

The dman
06-28-2010, 06:32 PM
I've had mine for a couple of months now and I love it. It's much more dynamic and versatile than my Fender Concert II. Love the sound and it doesn't kill my ears

playing4one
06-28-2010, 07:31 PM
I am still using the same V22 that I bought in November '09. I run it 2-3 times a week at church for several hours. I have only had the footswitch problem once. This thing sounds great. I may pick up a few more tubes just to try a few others and compare them to the JJ tubes I have.

OldToneDog
06-29-2010, 07:10 PM
As nice as this new Fender offering seems, the price seems to be a really heavy lift considering what we've discovered in the v22. I'd be interested in playing one though...


Super-Sonic™ 22 Combo, Black, 120V
Model: 2160000000
$1,400.00

jlagrassa
06-29-2010, 08:09 PM
As nice as this new Fender offering seems, the price seems to be a really heavy lift considering what we've discovered in the v22. I'd be interested in playing one though...


Super-Sonicô 22 Combo, Black, 120V
Model: 2160000000
$1,400.00


I've been eye balling that one as well I believe it's sells for around a $1000 but for now I want to see how the V22 works out for me it will be here in a few days and only cost me $200 so far I like the fact that I saved $800 :rockin

vbf
06-29-2010, 08:26 PM
I picked up a used V-22 and freakin' love it!! It had a broken standby switch that a friend replaced for practically nothing. I got a great deal on it. I also picked up a Bugera 4x12 slant cab and they sound really nice together.

KGWagner
06-29-2010, 08:56 PM
I've been eye balling that one as well I believe it's sells for around a $1000 but for now I want to see how the V22 works out for me it will be here in a few days and only cost me $200 so far I like the fact that I saved $800 :rockin
You're going to love the V22. It's also going to make you wonder how anybody else is selling their amps for so much, especially considering they're made in China, too.

RobH
06-29-2010, 09:55 PM
Effects processors are getting so good that I doubt there will be any need to own a valve amp in 5-10 years....
I can't see any reason to spend heaps of money on an amp that will be obsolete before it pays for itself.

I recently got to use an Eleven rack processor.....


I'll never buy another amp...

RobH
06-29-2010, 10:05 PM
2000 post about a cheap amp...unbelievable :)

_Brandon
06-29-2010, 10:32 PM
2001. Now to get a Bugera 2x12 cab.