Celestion "Greenback" ID thread, pics, descriptions, etc.

[Scumback Speakers]

Hi, I just picked up a 74 check cab with what I suppose are greenbacks, all 4 are stamped T1221 and dated BG22, Feb 74. Only 1 magnet cover but it's either a creamback or faded greenie. Looks like they've been reconed, can anyone provide info on these cone codes? 2 are W1009, are those similar to the Waldom WF1009 mentioned in an earlier thread? The other 2 have codes of R1C1T1V and what looks like 1C15G. Any help is greatly appreciated. These things are worth squat, right? :jo

The WF or W1009 cones are Waldom recones. The RICIT1V and RIC15G are original cones made by Celestion, not Pulsonic or Kurt-Mueller. Not sure if they sound as good, but they are more valuable than the KM cones.

[Mr Benn]

hi guys
i've got four of these i picked up in a 4x12 basketweave cab,sorry for not reading the eleven pages but can anyone tell me more about them?

i got the cab and a master mkII 100w head for €180 about two years back

http://inlinethumb35.webshots.com/39970/1396631479055079378S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb58.webshots.com/17977/1397612866055079378S500x500Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/844/1397612946055079378S500x500Q85.jpg

[Scumback Speakers]

hi guys
i've got four of these i picked up in a 4x12 basketweave cab,sorry for not reading the eleven pages but can anyone tell me more about them?

i got the cab and a master mkII 100w head for €180 about two years back

http://inlinethumb35.webshots.com/39970/1396631479055079378S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb58.webshots.com/17977/1397612866055079378S500x500Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/844/1397612946055079378S500x500Q85.jpg

Then go back and read the 1st page about the cone #'s, damnit! LOL

Your speakers are from 68, but unless the cones are original, they're not valuable. Speaker cone codes are on page 1-2 with pictures on where to look.

[pumpa]

Hi everyone,

I'd like to ask you to help me identify some cream back speakers that i am about to buy. There are 3 of them, all look orignal (i have seen several original greenbacks before). They look the same and have the same date codes: CG21, that means 21 march 1974.
On the back it says:

G12M
25 watts
4 ohms
bass resonance: 75hz

I haven't heard of 4 ohm celestion G12Ms or G12Hs, and can't find any on the internet.
The second interesting thing is the magnet covers look white rather than cream as other cream backs do. Maybe that's because i have only seen photos of it, but it seems strange.
I have no information about cone numbers yet, but the guy who is selling them told me the frame codes are T2195.
I couldn't find a similar frame code, so now i'm wondering if the speakers can be original and if there were any such speakers made at all.

Could you please help me out?

[Groovey Records]

Hi everyone,

I'd like to ask you to help me identify some cream back speakers that i am about to buy. There are 3 of them, all look orignal (i have seen several original greenbacks before). They look the same and have the same date codes: CG21, that means 21 march 1974.
On the back it says:

G12M
25 watts
4 ohms
bass resonance: 75hz

I haven't heard of 4 ohm celestion G12Ms or G12Hs, and can't find any on the internet.
The second interesting thing is the magnet covers look white rather than cream as other cream backs do. Maybe that's because i have only seen photos of it, but it seems strange.
I have no information about cone numbers yet, but the guy who is selling them told me the frame codes are T2195.
I couldn't find a similar frame code, so now i'm wondering if the speakers can be original and if there were any such speakers made at all.

Could you please help me out?

Welcome to TGP Pumpa!

You've come to the right place

have you got those photo's you can post ? It would be easier to tell from a few good photo's.

Have you read the whole thread ?the first few pages out lines the whole history of the GB and I would suppose that the dates you have make them from the first few Rola years but pictures and maybe some comment from the threads OP - Southbay Ampworks

So again welcome to TGP

KABONG

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd195/grooveyrecords/hb_quickdraw.jpg

EnJoY ThE MuSiC
GrooVey Records

[Scumback Speakers]

Could you please help me out?

I can help, but you'll need to email me clear close-up pics of the front of the cones, the back label, Txxx #, date codes and the cone #'s which should be hidden under the frame on the cone up by the wires where they attach, or close by.

[pumpa]

Welcome to TGP Pumpa!

You've come to the right place

have you got those photo's you can post ? It would be easier to tell from a few good photo's.

Have you read the whole thread ?the first few pages out lines the whole history of the GB and I would suppose that the dates you have make them from the first few Rola years but pictures and maybe some comment from the threads OP - Southbay Ampworks

So again welcome to TGP

KABONG

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd195/grooveyrecords/hb_quickdraw.jpg

EnJoY ThE MuSiC
GrooVey Records

Thank you for the warm welcome!
Today the cabinet in which the creambacks are was shipped to me and i took some photos. Unfortunately i can't upload them here for some reason, but i sent them to Southbay Ampworks.

[pumpa]

I can help, but you'll need to email me clear close-up pics of the front of the cones, the back label, Txxx #, date codes and the cone #'s which should be hidden under the frame on the cone up by the wires where they attach, or close by.

Thank you, i sent you some pictures.

[pumpa]

I uploaded at least 30 pics here: http://www.sendspace.com/file/opg0u7

[Scumback Speakers]

I uploaded at least 30 pics here: http://www.sendspace.com/file/opg0u7

I saw your pics. They're not the good cones, sorry. The desirable cones did not have the aluminum dust caps in the center.

[pumpa]

I haven't bought the cabinet yet. Do you think i should send it back? I must decide today, because i promised to do so.

[Scumback Speakers]

I haven't bought the cabinet yet. Do you think i should send it back? I must decide today, because i promised to do so.
If it's cheap and sounds good to you, keep it. But it's not collectible or worth significant $$$, so if you're looking for an investment, keep looking. IMO, that cab and speakers isn't it.

[pumpa]

The price is 55000 HUF (hungarian forints), thats approximately 300 $.
A few minutes ago i spoke with a Marshall and Greenback enthusiast who obviously has less experience in the subject than you, but he said he rockons the cones are original and the aluminium dust caps were placed there in the factory where the cab was made to increase mid or high frequency ranges. Do you think this is possible?
Yesterday when i took the photos i could only remove one of the speakers, couldn't move the others for they were stuck between the four screws. These screws were put there from the front of the cab before they installed the grill cloth. The cloth is undamaged and is placed so that one couldn't have removed these two speakers without cutting the cloth or ruining the whole cab, therefore i think it is true that any modifications done to the cone must have been done in the factory.
What do you think? Can it be the original cone although there are no cone numbers? Are all the other parts of the speakers original?

[Groovey Records]

If it's cheap and sounds good to you, keep it. But it's not collectible or worth significant $$$, so if you're looking for an investment, keep looking. IMO, that cab and speakers isn't it.

What he said + infinity if you like it and the speakers sound good $300 is not alot of money for four drivers.

Your whole thing about how the speaker screws are behind the grill cloth front doesn't ring true. What kind of Cab is it you didnt' say ?

I just payed $500 for a mint marshall 1960A from 1987 loaded with as new and unused 1987 Celestion h70 drivers. I pulled them out and sold them and have GB's & H30's (current) in their now.

I'll be going for the Scumbacks next.
I wish I knew about them before I got these !

EnJoY ThE MuSiC
Groovey Records

[pumpa]

What he said + infinity if you like it and the speakers sound good $300 is not alot of money for four drivers.

Your whole thing about how the speaker screws are behind the grill cloth front doesn't ring true. What kind of Cab is it you didnt' say ?

I just payed $500 for a mint marshall 1960A from 1987 loaded with as new and unused 1987 Celestion h70 drivers. I pulled them out and sold them and have GB's & H30's (current) in their now.

I'll be going for the Scumbacks next.
I wish I knew about them before I got these !

EnJoY ThE MuSiC
Groovey Records

I uploaded some 30 pics of the cab and speakers somewhere, and posted the link here. The cab's brand is Austrovox. That's an austrian company that made marshall-based valve amplifiers and matching cabinets in the 1970s. This one is a 3X12 guitar cab made in 1974. Don't know why they chose to build this instead of a 4X12.
Of course i'd like to buy a Marshall 4X12 from the late 1960s/early 70s, but i don't have that much money right now. What i need now is a cheap temporary cab that i can use for some time before switching to a Marshall.

[pumpa]

[quote=Groovey Records;3811692]

Your whole thing about how the speaker screws are behind the grill cloth front doesn't ring true.

Sorry if it doesn't make sense but i can't express myself properly in english, because it's not my mother tongue. I really mean that i can't get two of the speakers out because the screws hold them tight and these can be unscrewed only from the outside of the cab, but in order to do that i would need to cut the cloth on the front.

[Scumback Speakers]

I checked your pics, you have speaker studs. That's a screw stud that is (usually) reversed into the wood from the front before the baffle board cloth is installed. If the nuts for those studs are stripped or frozen, you'll have a hell of time to get the speakers out for any reason. Also that baffle board is made of particle board, so it's not the best material for that job.

Conclusion: Unless you want to have some headaches with this cab, I'd look for another.

[pumpa]

I bought the cab finally because it was cheap and sounds right for me. I hope there will be no issues with it. Thank you both again for taking the time to help me!

[ECB]

Hi, everyone!

my name is Ernst, I come from Germany and I am new to this great forum. I like to know something about the G12M I just bought. It is a 'Blackback' model dated DEC1976, the number on the basket is T2114 and the cone is stamped 1777, okay. What is making me nervous is the silver dust cap which is very big. Can somebody tell me about it? I searched many places but I couldn't find a G12M like this yet. Is this cap original and what is the purpose? Any help appreciated!

Thanks and best regards Ernst

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/ernst_b/IMG_31141.jpghttp://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/ernst_b/IMG_31171.jpghttp://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/ernst_b/IMG_31181.jpg

[seansydney]

I've also got a question about Greenbacks.

I've got a quad here stamped T1221, all date matched EE - so may of '72.

Can I ask how much these are worth if they haven't been reconed?

[Scumback Speakers]

ECB, I haven't seen that speaker dust cap on a 1777 before, so that's something special. I don't think it's valuable, though, and I'm not sure how great it sounds with that cone, either. Hope it sounds good to you, cuz that's what's important.

seansydney, if it's an EE date coded, T1221 with 102/3 or 102 003 cones, they're worth around $900-1100 if they're in good condition with no issues.

If they're 1777 or RIC xxx cones, then they're around $150-175 each.

[lo.fi.labs]

Hey Jim, can I get your 2 cents on this speaker? A '74 Creamback T1234 G12H30 - I was told the cone is a pulsonic despite the Rola production but I recall you sayin' something about the RIC cones being Celestion made (I can't seem to find your comment in this monster thread). Whaddya think? Thanks! Best...thread....EVER!

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/brown_note123/creamback.jpg

[Scumback Speakers]

In order of desirability and resale value for all old Celestion speakers, here you go!

Pulsonic 102 003 75 hz (T1221 G12M or T1217 G12H30) tied with the
Pulsonic 102 014 55 hz (T1511 G12M or T1281/T1534 G12H30) these are the 16 ohm models.

T1234 G12H30 and T1220 G12M 8 ohm models also use the 8 ohm voice coil with these same 75 hz cones, as well as ultra rare 8 ohm 55 hz models. (Good luck finding those, by the way.)

Then you have the 6402 cones, these were produced in the late 80 to early 90's then discontinued. Apparently it was an attempt to replicate the Pulsonic cone tone with a new cone tool. From various sources, I hear that the 53H1777 cone is the same one, with a new number, and only used with the Alnico Blue and some recone kits.

RIC XXXX cones, which came out in 74

Then the 1777 75 hz cones and the 444 55 hz cones come in at the end/bottom/however you want to look at it.

Be advised that this post is based on only my own extensive testing of over 500 Celestions over the last 9 years, some input from a former Celestion speaker engineer, and discussing the tones of various cones of those who have had all of these versions, which I can limit to about a 1/2 dozen people.

So, to answer your question, mute999, that cone is about 3rd on the list of desirable cones. It's not clear but I think the RIC cone was a Pulsonic cone, but other sources say that Celestion made this as well. The problem is that it was used for only a year or less before the 1975 time frame and the 1777 and 444 Kurt Mueller cones came into fashion...

[lo.fi.labs]

Thanks very much for a very informative reply!

[Scumback Speakers]

Thanks very much for a very informative reply!
No problema!

[ECB]

Thanks Jim,

for your explanation. To be honest, I don't care if it's valuable but I didn't have the chance to test the speaker after having bought it for some time. So I just wanted to get some information in the meantime. Now I have tested my new 2x12 cab with this blackback and an Eminence GB12 and I'm quite satisfied with the result. Our bassist said:'the wool blanket has gone' and he is right - It has got a far more detailed and dynamic tone than my former 2x Vintage 30 cab which I thought was quite good. This is how it looks like, the cab is a 1969 Echolette ET100 Bass cabinet. The aluminum cap is very present. I have read it is used on some other speaker types as well and is known for a crisp attack - which I can confirm. Perfect for funky licks.

Nice weekend everybody and best regards Ernst

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/ernst_b/IMG_31261.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/ernst_b/IMG_31441.jpg

[Scumback Speakers]

ECB, if it sounds good to you, that's all that matters, sir! :dude

[solitaire]

Hi, everyone!

my name is Ernst, I come from Germany and I am new to this great forum. I like to know something about the G12M I just bought. It is a 'Blackback' model dated DEC1976, the number on the basket is T2114 and the cone is stamped 1777, okay. What is making me nervous is the silver dust cap which is very big. Can somebody tell me about it? I searched many places but I couldn't find a G12M like this yet. Is this cap original and what is the purpose? Any help appreciated!

Thanks and best regards Ernst

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/ernst_b/IMG_31141.jpghttp://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/ernst_b/IMG_31171.jpghttp://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/ernst_b/IMG_31181.jpg
Very similar treatment of the dust cap as seen on vintage Fanes. Even shares that non-aluminium thing in the centre.

[Guitartommy5150]

Hi, I am new to this thread. I just opened up a Marshall 4x12 weave cab I have and found inside 3 greenbacks and 1 GT12. I was hoping someone could tell me what these greenbacks are. There are no labels on the back. Are they worth anything? I was going to change them out.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i157/Guitartommy5150/IMG_3303.jpg

The code blocked by the flash is T1281

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i157/Guitartommy5150/IMG_3325.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i157/Guitartommy5150/IMG_3327.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i157/Guitartommy5150/IMG_3326.jpg

Thank you in advance!

[Scumback Speakers]

Hi, I am new to this thread. I just opened up a Marshall 4x12 weave cab I have and found inside 3 greenbacks and 1 GT12. I was hoping someone could tell me what these greenbacks are. There are no labels on the back. Are they worth anything? I was going to change them out.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i157/Guitartommy5150/IMG_3303.jpg

The code blocked by the flash is T1281

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i157/Guitartommy5150/IMG_3325.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i157/Guitartommy5150/IMG_3327.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i157/Guitartommy5150/IMG_3326.jpg

Thank you in advance!

Send me the pics of the cone #'s on the cones, Txxxx # pics, along with the pics of the front of the cones and I can give you a current market value.

[Groovey Records]

Jim I just picked up a Rola speaker while you where away from a late sixties Hammond tone cab.

I took a shot and just bought it No big loss if its pedestrian but hey you nrver know!

The spyder#'s on the rim is the only ID I can find.
Do you have any info ie max power/ ceramic or AlNiCo/ best application/ cone quality?.

Thanks Jim
You on my to do list !

EnJoY ThE MuSiC
GrooVey RecOrds

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd195/grooveyrecords/DSCN2394.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd195/grooveyrecords/DSCN2396.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd195/grooveyrecords/DSCN2397.jpg

[Scumback Speakers]

Groovey, that's an American made Rola with an Alnico magnet. Sorry, the American versions I haven't got much experience with, just the British made models.

[Quinny]

Very informative thread, thanks! :) I could do with some help ID'ing and putting value to some speakers and cabs I have. They're upright Marshall PA cabs, 70s I think, and each houses 2x12 and 2x10. Here they are:

http://nialltodd.com/MarshallCabs/mar.jpg

I'm thinking of selling them.... as cool as they are and as nice as they sound, they're sat mostly tasked with gathering dust. As such, I've been trying to work out what the speakers are with a view to sticking a rough asking price on on the cabs.

This is the right hand cab:
http://nialltodd.com/MarshallCabs/right1.jpg
http://nialltodd.com/MarshallCabs/right3.jpg

And the left hand one:
http://nialltodd.com/MarshallCabs/left1.jpg
http://nialltodd.com/MarshallCabs/left3.jpg

Right, here's what I've managed to figure out about them:

All 10" speakers have no cone code. They all have 1927 stamped on the basket, this is a speaker model number from what I can tell, but can't find anything specific about it. All 10s have a red sticker on them saying 'Celestion - Made in England' on them. The lack of glue marks on them suggests they've never had backs/covers on. All 12" speakers are Rola Celestion, G12M, 25W, 16 ohms, 55Hz bass resonance. As for dates:

In one cab:
10" 1: GJ14. I make this 14th July 1976
10" 2: FG10. I make this 10th June 1974
12" 1: GJ30. I make this 30th July 1976 (0444 cone code)
12" 2: FG27. I make this 27th June 1974 (98700 cone code)

In the other:
10" 1 & 2: EG13. I make this 13th May 1974
12" 1 & 2: GJ18. I make this 18th July 1976 (both 0444 cone code)

I'm aware the 0444 cone code relates to a lower resonance version of the speaker, tied to the 55Hz response I guess. But the 98700....?

Looks like there'd be some sense in me having a 12 and a 10 code mixed up in the first list, that'd mean all 1976 12s and all 1974 10s. I'll double check these later though pretty sure it's accurate as listed.

What do you think all?

Thanks, Q.



ps I also have an old cab I've used for years as my main, decided to look in the back of it this evening (been there before but never noted the details)... seems I have a quad of T1217/G12H/30W/16ohm/75Hz creambacks in there from what I work out to be 10th of July 1975 (GH10X).

[Groovey Records]

Groovey, that's an American made Rola with an Alnico magnet. Sorry, the American versions I haven't got much experience with, just the British made models.

For $28 I'll get some fun playing around with it. If they are a total loss I can get a razor blade and go Dave Davies :bow

Thanks

You Sir are a GREAT Humanitarian

[Roodyrocker]

In late 2001/early 2002 I bought a set of 4 brand new 25w Greenbacks which sat in the original shipping box until last week. Thats when I purchased a used Bogner 4x12 cab from TGP classifieds and in case these pix are of any help to anyone here ya go:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/roodyrocker/DSCN0347.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/roodyrocker/DSCN0349.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/roodyrocker/DSCN0358.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/roodyrocker/DSCN0359.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/roodyrocker/DSCN0366.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/roodyrocker/DSCN0367.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/roodyrocker/DSCN0370.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/roodyrocker/DSCN0383.jpg

[r8burst]

I hope this isn't a redundant request. Couldn't bring myself to search through all 30 pages of this thread. I just acquired this speaker. It was a replacement in an old Fender combo I just got. What do I have here? Age, value, etc? Seems to be in good shape, no rub when you pree on the cone.

Thanks for any info.

Tony

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb160/tonyking1/DSC02054.jpg

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb160/tonyking1/DSC02055.jpg

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb160/tonyking1/DSC02056.jpg

[Scumback Speakers]

R8burst, that's a standard G12M 75 hz, 25 watt "Blackback" from March 30, 1977. Not real collectable, not the holy grail tone, but worth $125-175 on eBay.

[Scumback Speakers]

Very informative thread, thanks! :) I could do with some help ID'ing and putting value to some speakers and cabs I have. They're upright Marshall PA cabs, 70s I think, and each houses 2x12 and 2x10. Here they are:

http://nialltodd.com/MarshallCabs/mar.jpg

I'm thinking of selling them.... as cool as they are and as nice as they sound, they're sat mostly tasked with gathering dust. As such, I've been trying to work out what the speakers are with a view to sticking a rough asking price on on the cabs.

This is the right hand cab:
http://nialltodd.com/MarshallCabs/right1.jpg
http://nialltodd.com/MarshallCabs/right3.jpg

And the left hand one:
http://nialltodd.com/MarshallCabs/left1.jpg
http://nialltodd.com/MarshallCabs/left3.jpg

Right, here's what I've managed to figure out about them:

All 10" speakers have no cone code. They all have 1927 stamped on the basket, this is a speaker model number from what I can tell, but can't find anything specific about it. All 10s have a red sticker on them saying 'Celestion - Made in England' on them. The lack of glue marks on them suggests they've never had backs/covers on. All 12" speakers are Rola Celestion, G12M, 25W, 16 ohms, 55Hz bass resonance. As for dates:

In one cab:
10" 1: GJ14. I make this 14th July 1976
10" 2: FG10. I make this 10th June 1974
12" 1: GJ30. I make this 30th July 1976 (0444 cone code)
12" 2: FG27. I make this 27th June 1974 (98700 cone code)

In the other:
10" 1 & 2: EG13. I make this 13th May 1974
12" 1 & 2: GJ18. I make this 18th July 1976 (both 0444 cone code)

I'm aware the 0444 cone code relates to a lower resonance version of the speaker, tied to the 55Hz response I guess. But the 98700....?

Looks like there'd be some sense in me having a 12 and a 10 code mixed up in the first list, that'd mean all 1976 12s and all 1974 10s. I'll double check these later though pretty sure it's accurate as listed.

What do you think all?

Thanks, Q.



ps I also have an old cab I've used for years as my main, decided to look in the back of it this evening (been there before but never noted the details)... seems I have a quad of T1217/G12H/30W/16ohm/75Hz creambacks in there from what I work out to be 10th of July 1975 (GH10X).

G12M T1511 speakers are worth $125-200 depending on condition/tone/etc.
The 10" 1927 speakers I've never heard of, but if they've got a big magnet they'll be screamers, for sure. Figure $100-125 each for the 10's.

Glad you got some use out of the thread for info on your 10's and 12's value.

Roodyrocker: Those are some of the last "Made in England" G12M's before they moved production to China in 2002/2003.

[big mike]

Deleted a few posts. Let's keep the miss-understandings out of the thread (call a truce?), as I'd hate to lose the information contained in it.

[Quinny]

G12M T1511 speakers are worth $125-200 depending on condition/tone/etc.
The 10" 1927 speakers I've never heard of, but if they've got a big magnet they'll be screamers, for sure. Figure $100-125 each for the 10's.

Glad you got some use out of the thread for info on your 10's and 12's value.

Roodyrocker: Those are some of the last "Made in England" G12M's before they moved production to China in 2002/2003.

Thanks! Any idea on the 98700 cone code on one of the 12s? I wonder if it's a re-cone or, being 2 years out from the others (according to the basket code anyway), if it's a different thing altogether...? I was thinking of offering the cabs and speakers for about $1k so my thinking wasn't miles out.... maybe I'll swap a G12H 75Hz into each one and put a pair of G12M 55Hz into my 4x12. That'd mean my 4x12 has two of each, could be a great sounding box. :)

Thanks again, Q.

[Scumback Speakers]

Thanks! Any idea on the 98700 cone code on one of the 12s? I wonder if it's a re-cone or, being 2 years out from the others (according to the basket code anyway), if it's a different thing altogether...?
Thanks again, Q.

Sounds like a recone, but without pics, front, back and of the 98700 cone # it's tough to be certain. I don't recall seeing any Celestion with a 98700 cone # that's original, but you're past the date range (post 1973) I bought the bulk of my speakers from.

Email me some pics, if you can manage it.

[maurice]

Hi Jim

I'm new here, and am really appreciative of all the info you have posted. I have read most of the posts, and have found this to be the most informative Celestion forum I have seen so far. Thanks so much.

I recently acquired 2 vintage Marshall bottom cabs from different sources. From the info you have here, I have determined that I have scored in a big way.

One cab has 3- CC23W and 1- CC24W (March 23 & 24, 1970) T1221 G12M's with 102 003 cones, all in perfect condition. Used, but never abused. The original (and only) owner bought the cab in 1970, later cut it down to a 2 x 12" cab, and then rebuilt it back into a 4 x 12". I'm now in the process of restoring the cab, which has involved removing all of the 3/4" fir plywood alterations and replacing them with 5/8" baltic. New top, bottom, baffle and back panel, but I do have the original sides with the metal handles. Sadly, the casters and inserts are gone. It is a labour of love, I must say.

The original small plastic jack cup is missing and, after checking with various suppliers of replacement parts, I am striking out on finding one. Any suggestions?

The second cab is in almost showroom condition (a couple of re-glued minor tears in the tolex and very faded but not torn grill), but the speakers have me asking a couple of questions. 3 are T1511 G12M's, (GC30R - July 30/70). 2 of them are 102 014 cones and are in excellent working condition. The third is a recone (WF1009 cone kit) and works very well too. Is this the correct replacement kit to match the originals? The 4th speaker is a T1217 G12H, dated KJ4 (Nov 4/76). It has a black magnet cover, and a grey terminal board. I can't find any visible codes anywhere on the cone kit, and the gasket is cardboard, not cork. Would that mean it is a recone too?

Could you possibly give a rough idea of value on these speakers?

I also have a 3rd cab (possibly late '60's slant face) that perfectly matches the good bottom one I have described above, with one small difference. The top cab has holes from a small Marshall logo, and the bottom one has a mid size logo on it. Do you know when they changed from one logo to the other? Both cabs have intact salt and pepper grille cloth, and both are very faded (so much so that they almost look like cane). I have asked the Marshall web site, but they referred my question back to the Canadian Marshall distributors who appear to know nothing of Marshall history.

Now, this is where I get off topic a bit. The cab has 4 Heil "Celeste" speakers which, from the name, I assume to be Heil Sound's version of a Celestion. They appear to be possibly CTS frames. They have a 4 1/2" square magnet attached to the frame with 2 recessed Phillips machine screws on diagonally opposite corners. The cones are white and have the part number 451210-3. Have you ever encountered these speakers? Heil has not answered any of my questions. Sorry I have no pictures yet, but will get some if they would be helpful.

Sorry to have so many questions, but I've been accumulating them for a while!! Many thanks in advance for any light you can shed.

Maurice

[Scumback Speakers]

Maurice, you need to email me all of this and pics to help you out! LOL

Accumulating questions? Yikes...that's the Gettysburg address there, mister! Shoot me an email, OK?

[Krustythebrown]

I have just aquired two 4 x 12 cabs, loaded with G12M 25 watt 16 ohms, with the code KC20 T1221 on the chassis, the cabs are tatty, but the speakers are fine, all eight of them My guess is 20 March 1967 or 1977? cabinets were bought originally in about 1972 so either the speakers have been replaced, or they date to the earlier guess They have the Thames Ditton labels I have some photos, but wont upload them unless necessary? Any Ideas....

[rex37]

Hi, have two G12H and was wondering how old and what the numbers mean.

They are 75Hz black backs that has LL28 and T12.17 and the cone has 1777 on it. Thanks.

I have 4 greebacks, or maybe they are gold(I will have to look) G12M as well. I will get with that info.

[rex37]

Ok My G12M say Rola Celestion with Gold label with T1221 and JK12, 1777 cone.
Are they any good?

[rex37]

Ok I got my dates:

G12M Rolas are 1976 october, T1221 and 1777 cones I guess.

G12H Rolas are 1978, T1217 and 1777 cones.

I paid $150ea for the G12H, the G12M (4) came in a cab I bought.

[Scumback Speakers]

Ok I got my dates:

G12M Rolas are 1976 october, T1221 and 1777 cones I guess.

G12H Rolas are 1978, T1217 and 1777 cones.

I paid $150ea for the G12H, the G12M (4) came in a cab I bought.

You paid the going rate for old BlackBack speakers (both the G12H and G12M's). If they sound good to you, that's all that matters, right?

[rex37]

You paid the going rate for old BlackBack speakers (both the G12H and G12M's). If they sound good to you, that's all that matters, right?

The G12M sound good, but from what you said in earlier posts-not the holy grail of tone. I going to check out some other ones today I know of. Should I be looking for those cone numbers you talk about in first couple pages? Earlier Dates as well...Such as pulsonic cones(014 and so forth)

[Scumback Speakers]

The G12M sound good, but from what you said in earlier posts-not the holy grail of tone. I going to check out some other ones today I know of. Should I be looking for those cone numbers you talk about in first couple pages? Earlier Dates as well...Such as pulsonic cones(014 and so forth)

Those are the holy grail examples of old Celestion tone. That's what I look for. Trust me, there are good late 70's rolas, but the earlier Pulsonic cones are just a level or two better.

Once you hear them and compare, you'll know why.

[rex37]

Those are the holy grail examples of old Celestion tone. That's what I look for. Trust me, there are good late 70's rolas, but the earlier Pulsonic cones are just a level or two better.

Once you hear them and compare, you'll know why.

Hey, thanks. I will let you know what I find out today with other speakers. I am now a gear junky:) I can't seem to stop now;)


Rex

[rex37]

Ok I found these G12M with 11FG, T1221/03 and 6402 on the code. I will try to figure the date.

[rex37]

I believe these G12m are reissues in the '90's. Scumbag, if you get this before my call, disregard the call. Thanks, Rex

[Krustythebrown]

Heres some photos, they are in rather good condition for the age, I don't think the cab has been opened before I put handles on it and looked to see what the drivers were, the cab was bought new in 1974, Made by Douglas Amplification (Maidstone Kent England which closed around 1975)

http://www.gabrielmallory.co.uk/images/spkr2.jpghttp://www.gabrielmallory.co.uk/images/spkr3.jpghttp://www.gabrielmallory.co.uk/images/spkr4.jpg

http://http://www.gabrielmallory.co.uk/images/spkr3.jpghttp://www.gabrielmallory.co.uk/images/spkr1.jpghttp://http://www.gabrielmallory.co.uk/images/spkr2.jpg

[rex37]

There are some speakers on ebay with 102 014 cones. Don't know the dates though. Where these cones ever put in new reissue speakers. The guy seems to think they are heritage speakers, but with cones I don't know. Any help would be great.

[rex37]

I just bought a late '60's cab with the black strip cloth(hendrix model I think) It came with two greenback(I will check dates tomorrow, either 67 or 70) with 103 003 cones and two G12h 30's T1281, 103 014 cone. I paid quite a bit for it, but the sound is incredible. I will post pics tomorrow.

[SkipTracer]

Jim, have you ever heard of a Celestion T1279? I'm looking at an ebay ad for a speaker that's been pulled out of a Vox Defiant cab (JMI era). Thing looks a little bit like a G12H30, but the pics are not very good.

[Scumback Speakers]

Jim, have you ever heard of a Celestion T1279? I'm looking at an ebay ad for a speaker that's been pulled out of a Vox Defiant cab (JMI era). Thing looks a little bit like a G12H30, but the pics are not very good.

Item ID: 280231892224

HOM book says it's a G12H30, 8 ohm, Vox color and Jennings nameplate. Going to need the cone #'s and date codes to be of any further help. The date code is on the cork gasket to the left of the T1279 (speaker frame) code.

The cone # will be on the back of the cone up underneath the speaker tab or one of the frame spokes.

Could be a great speaker...just have to see what it says.

[SkipTracer]

HOM book says it's a G12H30, 8 ohm, Vox color and Jennings nameplate. Going to need the cone #'s and date codes to be of any further help. The date code is on the cork gasket to the left of the T1279 (speaker frame) code.

The cone # will be on the back of the cone up underneath the speaker tab or one of the frame spokes.

Could be a great speaker...just have to see what it says.

I have asked the seller about the cone numbers, but so far I didn't got a response.

Here's the pic from the auction:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/moon-pix/vox.jpg

[Scumback Speakers]

You need that one picture that shows the front of the gasket in full, that's superimposed on the other one, enlarged. The date code is to the left of the T1279 #.

They quit doing this in 68, though, so you know they're at least 40 years old. But the cone #, and how they sound are the most important thing. The rest of it...date/age/magnet cover color/label/yada yada is all chest thumping and bragging rights.

I've got a quad of 1972 G12M's with 102/3 cones here...damned if they don't sound like the earlier ones with older labels (Pre Rola era). That's cuz the cone didn't change from 68 to 73 (except for shortening the cone # from 102 003 to 102/3 to just 3). After that the RIC and 1777 cones showed up and the Pre Rola/Pulsonic cone tone was history.

[SkipTracer]

Thank you, Jim.
Just got an email from the guy. He says he couldn't find a cone number. I told him where it could be, so I hope he'll take another look.
Date code is DM18, which means April '67 if I'm not mistaken.

[Krustythebrown]

the word from Celestion is that mine are from April 1970 the very last of those made at the Thames Ditton Site.:banana

[Scumback Speakers]

Thank you, Jim.
Just got an email from the guy. He says he couldn't find a cone number. I told him where it could be, so I hope he'll take another look.
Date code is DM18, which means April '67 if I'm not mistaken.

You email him the link to this thread, plenty of pics at the beginning to show him where to look. DM18 would be April 18, 67.

the word from Celestion is that mine are from April 1970 the very last of those made at the Thames Ditton Site.:banana
Ahh, maybe. There's a lot of confusion as to WHEN Celestion moved. They definitely had the same cones in stock for a long time. I've got an early 74 G12H30 here with a 102 014 cone, and the old sticker from the Thames Ditton address, but they were supposed to have moved four years earlier.

I've found that the labels mean almost nothing with regards to tone. I've got four Rola Celestion G12M's with 102/3 Pulsonic cones here, and they sound just as nice as my 1971, or 1970 G12M's with 102 003 cones, even though they're not the more desirable magnet labels, and they have gray speaker tabs not black like the earlier ones.

A lot of the Pre Rola "thing" is having the bragging rights to say your speakers were made at Thames Ditton, or having the older label, when in fact, the parts used (cone/suspension/etc) were pretty much identical through the end of 73, and into early 74. So I wouldn't get hung up on where it was made, as long as it has the Pulsonic cones and the right tone.

It's not like you're going to pop the back off your cab to folks and show them the labels, right? That would be a lot of work for bragging rights... :D

[Krustythebrown]

You email him the link to this thread, plenty of pics at the beginning to show him where to look. DM18 would be April 18, 67.


Ahh, maybe. There's a lot of confusion as to WHEN Celestion moved. They definitely had the same cones in stock for a long time. I've got an early 74 G12H30 here with a 102 014 cone, and the old sticker from the Thames Ditton address, but they were supposed to have moved four years earlier.

I've found that the labels mean almost nothing with regards to tone. I've got four Rola Celestion G12M's with 102/3 Pulsonic cones here, and they sound just as nice as my 1971, or 1970 G12M's with 102 003 cones, even though they're not the more desirable magnet labels, and they have gray speaker tabs not black like the earlier ones.

A lot of the Pre Rola "thing" is having the bragging rights to say your speakers were made at Thames Ditton, or having the older label, when in fact, the parts used (cone/suspension/etc) were pretty much identical through the end of 73, and into early 74. So I wouldn't get hung up on where it was made, as long as it has the Pulsonic cones and the right tone.

It's not like you're going to pop the back off your cab to folks and show them the labels, right? That would be a lot of work for bragging rights... :D

Indeed, I am just trying to work out how much I should pay for them, as they belong to a friends father, and I dont want to rip him off, but also dont want to pay over the odds, ususal story I guess, they do sound good though, not as bright as I am used to, but sweet all the same. They could proabaly do with transferring to a smaller cab.

[SkipTracer]

You email him the link to this thread, plenty of pics at the beginning to show him where to look. DM18 would be April 18, 67.


The guy didn't respond so I didn't place a bid. Maybe I shoud have, though, because the speaker went for only 60 euros...

[donbarzini]

Does anyone know when Celestion started manufacturing the 25W Greenback Reissues? (not the 20W Heritage) Which speaker are they supposed to be a reissue of and when did they stop making the 25W that they are supposed to be a reissue of? Was there a time when you could no longer buy a 25W Greenback? :confused:

[jumpingoff]

How can you tell if a speaker has been reconed or not? I've got some '77s according to the codes but I'm wondering how to tell if they've been reconed.

[Scumback Speakers]

How can you tell if a speaker has been reconed or not? I've got some '77s according to the codes but I'm wondering how to tell if they've been reconed.

Send me some pics, front, back, with pics of the cone #'s on the back of the cones.

[Krustythebrown]

Finally got a chance to open up the second cab, these have some Rola G12H from 1971, T1217 102-003 cones, are these any good? They are all in perfect condition and work fine.

[Scumback Speakers]

Finally got a chance to open up the second cab, these have some Rola G12H from 1971, T1217 102-003 cones, are these any good? They are all in perfect condition and work fine.
Uh, no...they're no good at all. Just send them to me for disposal, OK? My Fedex buddies will be there in the morning to pick them up. What's your address? :D

Those speakers, if they are as you've described are going for $300-400 EACH now. They're one of the most sought after old models.

[Krustythebrown]

http://www.processexchange.co.uk/images/10small.jpgUh, no...they're no good at all. Just send them to me for disposal, OK? My Fedex buddies will be there in the morning to pick them up. What's your address? :D

Those speakers, if they are as you've described are going for $300-400 EACH now. They're one of the most sought after old models.
I'll have to run them and see what they sound like, thanks for the Info. i'll post some photos in a while.
http://www.processexchange.co.uk/images/10small.JPG


http://www.processexchange.co.uk/images/11small.JPG
http://www.processexchange.co.uk/images/12small.JPG

[LarryN]

Quite a find, Krusty!

[mgbridges73]

what are these? and what are they worth my good sirs, i havent paid a dime, they were taken off of someones hands because they were tired of looking at them :D

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p6/spinards/fdg002.jpg

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p6/spinards/fdg010.jpg

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p6/spinards/fdg001.jpg

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p6/spinards/amp017.jpg

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p6/spinards/amp016.jpg

[Scumback Speakers]

Mbridges73, check your PM box or email. I'll need some more pics and info from you to help.

[Groovey Records]

motherlode their is gold in them their hills

[Family Guy]

Er, do you have two of those cabs

http://rover.ebay.com/ar/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?mpt=%5BCacheBuster%5D&adtype=1&size=1x1&type=4&campid=5335828753&toolid=10001&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.co.uk%2F4x12-Vintage-Celestion-G12M-25w-16-ohm-1970-pre-Rola_W0QQitemZ250264242429QQcmdZViewItem%3Fhash%3D item250264242429%26_trkparms%3D72%253A638%257C39%2 53A1%257C65%253A12%26_trksid%3Dp3286.c0.m14.l1308h ttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4x12-Vintage-Celestion-G12M-25w-16-ohm-1970-pre-Rola_W0QQitemZ250264242429QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item 250264242429&_trkparms=72%3A638%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1308 (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=3&campid=5335828753&toolid=10001&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.co.uk%2F4x12-Vintage-Celestion-G12M-25w-16-ohm-1970-pre-Rola_W0QQitemZ250264242429QQcmdZViewItem%3Fhash%3D item250264242429%26_trkparms%3D72%253A638%257C39%2 53A1%257C65%253A12%26_trksid%3Dp3286.c0.m14.l1308)

:drool

Oh I see you do (went back and read previous posts)
Any chance th G12h's will end up on the bay also?

[Scumback Speakers]

The T1234 8 ohm models are rare here in the USA. Most of the ones I bought came from Canada, not the USA. They're popular there, can't tell you why.

As for the 4 code, as my posts previously state, the 4 code is the last stamp variation that Pulsonic used to identify it's cones. It went from 102 014 to 102 /14 to 102 14 to just 4.

The labels could be older Pre Rola (Thames Ditton address), but with gray tabs and later cone #'s. I have those as well. I even have a gray magnet cover with the Thames Ditton label and black speaker tabs. So the parts are all over the map era and build date wise, trust me.

What you have to know is the Txxxx and cone # codes to know what you've got. There is no tone in a label, magnet cover color nor in a speaker tab color.

[dtb]

Er, do you have two of those cabs

http://rover.ebay.com/ar/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?mpt=%5BCacheBuster%5D&adtype=1&size=1x1&type=4&campid=5335828753&toolid=10001&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.co.uk%2F4x12-Vintage-Celestion-G12M-25w-16-ohm-1970-pre-Rola_W0QQitemZ250264242429QQcmdZViewItem%3Fhash%3D item250264242429%26_trkparms%3D72%253A638%257C39%2 53A1%257C65%253A12%26_trksid%3Dp3286.c0.m14.l1308h ttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4x12-Vintage-Celestion-G12M-25w-16-ohm-1970-pre-Rola_W0QQitemZ250264242429QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item 250264242429&_trkparms=72%3A638%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1308 (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=3&campid=5335828753&toolid=10001&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.co.uk%2F4x12-Vintage-Celestion-G12M-25w-16-ohm-1970-pre-Rola_W0QQitemZ250264242429QQcmdZViewItem%3Fhash%3D item250264242429%26_trkparms%3D72%253A638%257C39%2 53A1%257C65%253A12%26_trksid%3Dp3286.c0.m14.l1308)

:drool

Oh I see you do (went back and read previous posts)
Any chance th G12h's will end up on the bay also?

Ignore me if I am being dumb ( its not unusual ) but those listed on ebay are not mine .

The T1234 8 ohm models are rare here in the USA. Most of the ones I bought came from Canada, not the USA. They're popular there, can't tell you why.


What you have to know is the Txxxx and cone # codes to know what you've got. There is no tone in a label, magnet cover color nor in a speaker tab color.

A lot of the speaker cabs in the UK during the 70's tended to be loaded with 4 x 8 Ohm, perhaps it was a UK thing ? But that would be pure guesswork on my part.

I made a mistake about my Greenbacks. There T1234 but the cones are marked with a 3 ( no underline ), but they have an N marked after the date code ?

[Scumback Speakers]

I made a mistake about my Greenbacks. There T1234 but the cones are marked with a 3 ( no underline ), but they have an N marked after the date code ?
Can't tell you what an N, X or Z means after a date code. I can tell you that frequently the cones were not fully stamped legibly, so there are some odd markings on some.

[dtb]

Can't tell you what an N, X or Z means after a date code. I can tell you that frequently the cones were not fully stamped legibly, so there are some odd markings on some.


It's the quality inspectors stamp :banana

[Scumback Speakers]

It's the quality inspectors stamp :banana
Nope, sorry. There's a round stamp with an "Inspected by XX" inside of it which is the inspector's stamp. Here's a pic from earlier in the thread.

http://www.bigue.com/images/g12ms-1221-rear-med.jpg

[dtb]

Nope, sorry. There's a round stamp with an "Inspected by XX" inside of it which is the inspector's stamp. Here's a pic from earlier in the thread.




Yeah, that's the passed stamp and the letter is the inspectors initial . ONly the odd one got stamped like that according to Celestion.

I have been wondering what the last letter has been for ages, Celestion ( Dr Decibel ) confirmed it about 10 mins before your post ( hence my jumping banana ! ).

[Krustythebrown]

Er, do you have two of those cabs

http://rover.ebay.com/ar/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?mpt=%5BCacheBuster%5D&adtype=1&size=1x1&type=4&campid=5335828753&toolid=10001&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.co.uk%2F4x12-Vintage-Celestion-G12M-25w-16-ohm-1970-pre-Rola_W0QQitemZ250264242429QQcmdZViewItem%3Fhash%3D item250264242429%26_trkparms%3D72%253A638%257C39%2 53A1%257C65%253A12%26_trksid%3Dp3286.c0.m14.l1308h ttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4x12-Vintage-Celestion-G12M-25w-16-ohm-1970-pre-Rola_W0QQitemZ250264242429QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item 250264242429&_trkparms=72%3A638%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1308 (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=3&campid=5335828753&toolid=10001&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.co.uk%2F4x12-Vintage-Celestion-G12M-25w-16-ohm-1970-pre-Rola_W0QQitemZ250264242429QQcmdZViewItem%3Fhash%3D item250264242429%26_trkparms%3D72%253A638%257C39%2 53A1%257C65%253A12%26_trksid%3Dp3286.c0.m14.l1308)

:drool

Oh I see you do (went back and read previous posts)
Any chance th G12h's will end up on the bay also?

Yes I do, although they are not mine, I am selling them for a friends father.
well one set, I have sold, the G12Hs I am keeping.. sorry.

[v-verb]

I just wanted to thank Jim - again - for his unselfish sharing of this hard to find information.

Thanks Jim!!

[Scumback Speakers]

I just wanted to thank Jim - again - for his unselfish sharing of this hard to find information.

Thanks Jim!!

You're quite welcome. :D

[Krustythebrown]

I just wanted to thank Jim - again - for his unselfish sharing of this hard to find information.

Thanks Jim!!
Yes, I'll add my thanks too, helped me find a home for some, which made three people happy.
Cheers

[johan]

Amazing thread! Love this place...

Need some help....

Found an old -73 Marshall cab model 1972. Speakers are two Celestions marked "KF30 / T1886 and "KF24 / T1886"

Both are:
ROLA Celestion ltd
Ipswich,Suffolk
Model# G12H
Power capacity 30
Ohm 16
Bass reso 55HZ


What can you tell me about them? Great speakers for a 2061 for example? Looks like a nice cab!

[Scumback Speakers]

Amazing thread! Love this place...

Need some help....

Found an old -73 Marshall cab model 1972. Speakers are two Celestions marked "KF30 / T1886 and "KF24 / T1886"

Both are:
ROLA Celestion ltd
Ipswich,Suffolk
Model# G12H
Power capacity 30
Ohm 16
Bass reso 55HZ


What can you tell me about them? Great speakers for a 2061 for example? Looks like a nice cab!

What are the cone #'s? They should be 102 014, 102/14, or just 4...but if they're 444, then they're not original cones, and have been reconed. Do they look anything like this one?
http://www.southbayampworks.com/greenbacks/t1862.jpg

[johan]

Will this be stamped on the metal frame? Haven't seen the cab yet. Only info I have at the moment. Will check...

[Scumback Speakers]

Will this be stamped on the metal frame? Haven't seen the cab yet. Only info I have at the moment. Will check...
No, underneath/behind the speaker wire terminal on the cone itself. Check page 1, post #21 of this thread for pics to show you where to look.

[johan]

Sorry, I get it. No pics or info but they are not reconed acc to the seller.
I'll come back when I've got the cab next week.

[Scumback Speakers]

Recones?
Yeah it's a recone, sorry. The 53H1777 cone is a 75 hz cone, used in many recone kits and the Celestion Blue, too. Your label says 55hz, not 75hz, and the T1886 is supposed to have the rare 102/030 cone, too (according to the HOM book). I've had a few of these speakers, and the T1886 I had did have this 030 cone in it. It wasn't a holy grail tone, so I sold it. I'm afraid you're still looking.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk157/johanare/Marshall%201936/G12H1stamps.jpg

[Scumback Speakers]

Thanks. Not what I wanted to hear but I wanted the truth and got it!
You're welcome. I'm brutally honest when I can be. Sorry it was with your potential purchase. Good luck on the hunt for speakers.

[dtb]

Has anyone ever seen Celestion speakers that have been ink stamped on the magnet with these Specs . G12H, 30 Watt, 15 Ohm 75 C/S, Celestion R&D , there appears to be a date stamp which is either 1990 or 1992.

I answered an advert in my local regional press where someone wanted to clear out some speakers from their garage due to a recent bereavement in the family and they were moving house. When I called the person, they just said there was some speakers in big wooden box's that needed to be cleared out or they would have them taken away and disposed off. As I was passing through the area I thought I would take a look. The big wooden box's were weird looking 4x12 speaker cabs There was three in all and some loose speakers .

I loaded the van and drove home. The cabs were loaded with a range of Celestion speakers, some of which I have never seen before. In one cab we found some Celestion Alnicos, various combinations of Greenbacks. All the cabs had switches on the back that appeared to switch the speakers in Series, Parallel or off and on. There was a metal document holder fixed to the top of the cabs that had a load of frequency charts inside .

I opened another box and there was two speakers in there which appeared to have black Celestion baskets , but with the ink stamp on the magnet. They look new, but they were in a dusty old box. The Irony is, I picked these up from Ipswich

I have tried to contact the people I got these from to see if I can shine any light on it, but they have since moved. The new owner of the house did ask a neighbour and it appeared the elderly gentleman who lived there worked for Celestion ( this was the person who recently died ). I have contacted Celestion and they cannot shine any light on it. They said any R&D stuff would not have been documented for public knowledge, which is fair. But I am curious as hell to what these are.

[Scumback Speakers]

My buddy Duncan Boniface used to be a lead speaker engineer at Celestion. He says there were R&D test samples all over the place, for multiple reasons. Sounds like you got one of the Celestion "selector" cabs that had four individual closed back partitions, with a switch to go between the speakers, and setup various combinations. I borrowed one of those a few years back from my amp tech.

You'll be hard pressed to get any data on that now that the gent who had them has passed, though.

[Ben Jam'n]

I've got some I haven't seen discussed here:

Model G12M 55hz
Date AK6
T2633
444 cones

Any idea what these are?

[Scumback Speakers]

I've got some I haven't seen discussed here
Any idea what these are?

Model G12M 55hz 35 oz magnet, 55hz bass cone model, 97 db efficiency.
Date AK6 January 6, 1977 date code
T2633 Later model G12M type, not a collector's item, though, and not discussed in the History of Marshall book, either.
444 cones 55hz bass cone, same cone as used in the Vintage 30

[twinrider1]

T3557 What type of cone is that?

Didn't see it in Doyle's, and the Google results point toward it being a recone number.

Thanks.

[Scumback Speakers]

No telling about that T3557 frame code, twin. Time to email: drdecibel@celestion.com

It's most likely not valuable or collectable. The last collectable Txxxx speakers I know of are G12-65 T3054, T3120, T2876 G12-80's, and that's about it. I think the V30 Txxxx # is somewhere around there, too.

[twinrider1]

Thanks. Turns out they're G12M70's, two for $150. Would it make $$ sense to have them reconed to a better spec, or was more than the cone that made them harsh?

BTW, just picked up a M75, my first Scumback. They aren't addictive are they? :-)

[Scumback Speakers]

Thanks. Turns out they're G12M70's, two for $150. Would it make $$ sense to have them reconed to a better spec, or was more than the cone that made them harsh?

BTW, just picked up a M75, my first Scumback. They aren't addictive are they? :-)

Glad you got your first Scumback M75....but...uh, they are addictive...(sorry!).

As for the Celestion G12M-70 :crazyguy, I am not going to post an opinion. Let's just say that Celestion decided to discontinue them 25 years ago, and they're not going to be reissued under the Heritage line...hope that explains it well enough. It would be an expensive speaker if reconed, and I'm not sure a recone would work, maybe...maybe not. You're on your own for that one. ;)

[Jeff West]

twinrider- Were those really T3557 not T3575? The latter is 4 ohm G12M-70. T3577 is the usual 15 ohm version.

Yeah, you should be aware that you can't just recone any G12M-70 into a different G12M version with the same ease as most other 12M Celestions, because G12M-70s have "2712" cones and 1.5" VC, not 1.75" like classic 12" greenbacks, etc.

T2633 is 16 ohm blackback hammertone G12M-25 with 444 bass cone and softer spider/suspension compared to lead T1221, appeared only in late '70s. They're not bad at all with certain '70s Marshalls if you like the 55hz models, IMO.

Jeff

[twinrider1]

Ahh, thanks. My typo....it really is T3577.

[mark norwine]

What an amazing thread! I've read every word of every page, twice!

As a lifelong "Fender guy", my experience has been with the 'usual suspects'......Jensen, Oxford, CTS, etc. My experience with Celestion is extremely limited.

That said, on the recommendations of a friend, I stuck a "Marshall-labeled" Celestion V30 in my Deluxe Reverb....very nice! My admittance fees to the "Celestion club" has been paid!

Fast forward to a week ago: I helped a friend move out of his studio. After all the "good stuff" was moved, there was quite a lot of junk headed for the dumpster. In the junk I managed to grab a 70's Greenback G12H with a torn-out cone.

The cone code is meaningless, because this one is trashed. Labels aside, what I have is little more than a 12" basket w/ a 50 oz magnet, able to accommodate a 1-3/4" VC.

As I've read this thread, one thing seems to be clear to me: Tone is in the cone choice. There are lots of re-coning services in the NJ/NYC area, but I don’t know any well enough to be confident that they will install “the desirable cone”.

What do I ask for? In the world of reconing, what options are there?

My desires would be for tones that would compliment a Deluxe Reverb, sounding big, bold & warm.

Any thoughts?

Or…..if a G12H basket is “barking up the wrong tree” for those tones, maybe I’ll just sell the basket as a “husk”….

[Scumback Speakers]

As I've read this thread, one thing seems to be clear to me: Tone is in the cone choice. There are lots of re-coning services in the NJ/NYC area, but I don’t know any well enough to be confident that they will install “the desirable cone”.What do I ask for? In the world of reconing, what options are there?Or…..if a G12H basket is “barking up the wrong tree” for those tones, maybe I’ll just sell the basket as a “husk”….

Email me about reconing options, I don't want to go over that whole subject and dilute the thread, OK? :AOK

[mark norwine]

Fair enough.....

[suburbia]

First,

Hello to all Celestion Greenbacks specs.

and first of all, Southbay!

I owne(d) 4 greenbacks, datecode 19,20 sept. 68 ( so called pre-rolas, Thames Ditton )-not reconed-> orig. cones.
Sold them on eg(b)ay, as a resell,, but never checked before.
New owner told me, 3 of them scratch, one is ok.
What would you do in my situation?

regards

Dirk

bought them on ebay, too-wtf

[Scumback Speakers]

I'd have the buyer send them back to you. Then have them checked by a speaker recone shop, unless the buyer has someone reputable that does that. Then I'd work with the buyer after you know what's good and what's not.

I always asked the sellers I bought from to make sure they checked for issues before I bought them from them, then insure them for the full sale amount in case there was damage in shipping.

I had to send back a good 20-24 speakers over five years cuz the sellers didn't check, didn't know, etc.

You just can't sell a vintage speaker "as is, untested" any more for the kind of money they sell for unless you want problems.

[suburbia]

I'd have the buyer send them back to you. Then have them checked by a speaker recone shop, unless the buyer has someone reputable that does that. Then I'd work with the buyer after you know what's good and what's not.

I always asked the sellers I bought from to make sure they checked for issues before I bought them from them, then insure them for the full sale amount in case there was damage in shipping.

I had to send back a good 20-24 speakers over five years cuz the sellers didn't check, didn't know, etc.

You just can't sell a vintage speaker "as is, untested" any more for the kind of money they sell for unless you want problems.

Many thanks Southbay,

they will be returned from the ebaydeal, back to me.

I thought I've bought ' The Holy Grail ', but had not that much expirience. Never checked them after buying (big mistake!!!), was satisfied with my G 12T75 from 89'. There was no need to change, in my amateur opinion. so I left them for a while, then decided to sale, so f...... off.
My prob. is now, what to do with this stuff?
One of them is working correctly, the other ones need a recone, I think.
Bought all 4 of them for nearly 700.00 Euro = 985.271 US Dollar.
3 of them need a recone,I think, but what will they be worth after that? Should I invest the money?
But don't no how much the average costs for that service is, in germany or europe.

Thx for any ideas!

kindly regards

Dirk

[Scumback Speakers]

Many thanks Southbay,

they will be returned from the ebaydeal, back to me.

I thought I've bought ' The Holy Grail ', but had not that much expirience. Never checked them after buying (big mistake!!!), was satisfied with my G 12T75 from 89'. There was no need to change, in my amateur opinion. so I left them for a while, then decided to sale, so f...... off.
My prob. is now, what to do with this stuff?
One of them is working correctly, the other ones need a recone, I think.
Bought all 4 of them for nearly 700.00 Euro = 985.271 US Dollar.
3 of them need a recone,I think, but what will they be worth after that? Should I invest the money?
But don't no how much the average costs for that service is, in germany or europe.

Thx for any ideas!

kindly regards

Dirk

Well...if they really are in need of a recone, they'll sound like whatever you select as a recone kit and it's tones, but they won't sound like originals anymore, and the tone (and the value) is in the original cone.

Personally, if three are toast I'd either sell them for what their "husk" value is in their present condition, and sell the one good one for current value. There's a guy here in So Cal I know who could potentially save them, but by the time you sent them here, paid him to save the original cones and shipped them back you'd have $600 USD into the shipping plus he charges $70 or so per speaker to save them.

You're in a tough spot, I'm afraid, and no matter what choice you make you'll wind up losing money on this deal. I've been the victim of this stuff myself, so I feel your pain.

[suburbia]

Sure dtb,

i' m a serious seller, but no prof. buyer ( I think right now).
I get them back next few days.
Then think about it...
Person who bought them is a musician (Guitarrist), with also excellent feedback (over 2000 positive), and runs btw a vintage shop.
Checked them only manual, which means dropped on the cones, and heard scrachting, by 3 of them.
That's the story so far.

regards

Dirk

[johan]

Hi there
Here's a couple of more for you all

3 (Three) - G12H T1281 CG6 No printing on cones. One has a Grey cover
1 (One) - G12M T1511 CG12 smaller cream cover. This is the torn one. It has RICIVE or R1C1VE on cone.

Anyone have any info on the cone codes. No codes = recones?

http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk157/johanare/celestions/

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk157/johanare/celestions/celest004.jpg

[Scumback Speakers]

Hi there
Here's a couple of more for you all

3 (Three) - G12H T1281 CG6 No printing on cones. One has a Grey cover
1 (One) - G12M T1511 CG12 smaller cream cover. This is the torn one. It has RICIVE or R1C1VE on cone.

Anyone have any info on the cone codes. No codes = recones?


No cone #' at all on the T1281's? Not even under the speaker wire tab? Then it's probably been reconed, all three.

As for the T1511, that RIC cone is a Celestion made cone, not Pulsonic or Kurt-Mueller (Pulsonic ended in 73 or the F date code, 2nd letter) and the KM cones showed up in late 74, early 75 with the 1777 and 444 cones.

[BobbyAudio]

I also thank Jim for the amazing well of knowledge and admire his patience for those who post without cone codes, don't try Dr.Decibel (drdecibel@celestion.com), and don't read previous posts before asking questions.
Sorry this is so long for my 1st post. I posted lots of pictures because I like to see pictures. Let me know if I should link them instead and I will edit .Thanks!
----------------------------
I believe I have lucked into quite a find but am having trouble finding a date of the speakers as the chassis codes are not like the ones on the lists (no numbers). Also trying to find out the current value of these speakers/cab. Cab is rough outside but all speakers work great with no rips or coil rubbing.

Dr Decibel (drdecibel@celestion.com)said "Sorry don’t know the value but they are quite collectable. T1281 is the low resonance bass version of the G12H-30 and was made popular for guitarists by the likes of Hendrix. We re-issued it a couple of years ago as part of the Heritage range."

These came in what I believe to be a 1970 Marshall Cabinet. I work at a guitar shop that deals Marshall and my rep verified this as the cab serial starts with an "A" and it is a 120 watt cab which was started in 1970.
Last owner put the new logo on (Anyone know if this should have the gold logo?).
http://www.notverygood.org/stuff/marshall/Front.jpghttp://www.notverygood.org/stuff/marshall/back%20panel.jpg
http://www.notverygood.org/stuff/marshall/Inside.jpghttp://www.notverygood.org/stuff/marshall/Bottom%20L%20Side%20Back.jpg

Both Top Speakers have chassis code "LD T" and Cone code "102 14"
http://www.notverygood.org/stuff/marshall/Top%20L%20Side%20chasis.jpghttp://www.notverygood.org/stuff/marshall/Top%20L%20Side%20cone.jpg

The Bottom two both have cone code "102/14"
http://www.notverygood.org/stuff/marshall/Bottom%20L%20Side%20cone.jpg

The Bottom near the "M" Side of Marshall has Chassis code "LD X"
http://www.notverygood.org/stuff/marshall/Bottom%20M%20Side%20chasis.jpg

The bottom near "L" side is smeared.
http://www.notverygood.org/stuff/marshall/Bottom%20L%20Side%20chasis.jpg

[Scumback Speakers]

November 71 (LD date code) T1281 G12H30's with the 102/14 cones are the most sought after models. Figure on a value of $450-750 each depending on the buyer, tone, condition, etc. The matched quads always sell for more than loose singles, too.

I'm not going to comment on the serial # of the cab, thing. Serial #'s are meaningless, since back panels can be swapped so easily, and there really wasn't a solid numbering scheme on cabs.

The speakers date the cab to 71 as well as the construction details...

Checkerboard cloth (painted black...I see this a lot).
No plastic corners, but does have plastic handles.
Gold piping over the top and bottom of the cab.
Larger center post from the baffle board.

The wiring looks a little tattered. Might be time to redo that. You have scored, by the way!

[BobbyAudio]

Wow! Thanks for the great news!
I Live in the US and picked this up for $200.
Speakers were very dusty on front but beautiful under all the dust.
The cab was rewired for 4ohms when I got it. I did a very quick rewire for 16ohms and flipped the back so the jack sits near the top.

[v-verb]

Wow! Thanks for the great news!
I Live in the US and picked this up for $200.
Speakers were very dusty on front but beautiful under all the dust.
The cab was rewired for 4ohms when I got it. I did a very quick rewire for 16ohms and flipped the back so the jack sits near the top.

SCORE!!!:banana

[tonyshred]

Hey!
My first post and question.
I got myself an old marshall cab, with three celestion greenbacks, the stickers are gone so they won't tell me anything, but they are coded T1221 at the front with a possible date code 15AA and I just couldn't understand the code.
They have a cone# 41 102 003 and 49 102 003.
I haven't played through them, since the wiring in the cab wasn't correct, and probably the fourth greenback were broken and was replaced by a 8ohm eminence speaker. But they look great, a bit dusty though.
All info is appreciated,

Thanks
Tony

Some pictures:
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z242/tonykareid/celestion/DSC00248.jpg
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z242/tonykareid/celestion/DSC00246.jpg
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z242/tonykareid/celestion/DSC00243.jpg
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z242/tonykareid/celestion/DSC00240.jpg

[Scumback Speakers]

15AA would be January 15th, 1968

The T1221 is the standard G12M Greenback with 25 watts power handling, 75 hz bass response 102 003 Pulsonic cone, one of the holy grails of Celestion speaker tone, if the speakers are in decent shape, no voice coil rub, or other issues involved.

I'd get a whisk broom and remove the dust, though!

[tonyshred]

Thanks for the info.

I did a decent cleaning job and then wired the cab today, with the three greenbacks only in parallell, I believe that gives me 4 ohms and played through my mesa mkIIC+.
The speakers sounds great, there is nothing that gives a sign of anything wrong.

So this is a pretty good day.

Tony

[tonyshred]

it gives me 5.3333333333333333ohms
hahaha

[freerideman]

hi,

here are my codes of four greenback in my straight babsketweave 4x12 100w logo

- 1 T1281 with GB12 Y code and 35 102 003 cone
- 1 T1281 with GB12 Y code and 23 102 014 cone
- 1 T1281 with GB12 Y code and 23 102 014 cone
- 1 T1534 with C19R code and 13 102 014 cone

it's exactly the same cab as you south' but with a lot more roots aspect :D
What I mean , it's that there are 3 T1281 without label and 1 T1534 with a mistaked label

I ask me if all this type of cab had the same configuation ?
the other questions are :
- what about the "y" on T1281 code
- and what about this C19R code on the T1534

[Scumback Speakers]

hi,

here are my codes of four greenback in my straight babsketweave 4x12 100w logo

- 1 T1281 with GB12 Y code and 35 102 003 cone
- 1 T1281 with GB12 Y code and 23 102 014 cone
- 1 T1281 with GB12 Y code and 23 102 014 cone
- 1 T1534 with C19R code and 13 102 014 cone

it's exactly the same cab as you south' but with a lot more roots aspect :D
What I mean , it's that there are 3 T1281 without label and 1 T1534 with a mistaked label

I ask me if all this type of cab had the same configuation ?
the other questions are :
- what about the "y" on T1281 code
- and what about this C19R code on the T1534

GB12 is July 12, 1969 T1281 is the G12H30 55 hz model. One of yours has been reconed with a 102 003 75 hz cone, that's for sure, since it should have the 102 014 cone.

As for that T1534 C19R speaker, you'd better post pics of it, the label, the cone (front and underneath the frame where the cone # is), the date code and T1534 area pic if you want some help, not to mention pics of the cab itself. Sounds like you've got one that's got some replaced cones and speakers and probably isn't 100% original.

[freerideman]

the picture you asked

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/3493/img0008pt2.th.jpg (http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0008pt2.jpg)http://img408.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/4655/img0009tq5.th.jpg (http://img110.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0009tq5.jpg)http://img110.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/1394/img0012ko4.th.jpg (http://img110.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0012ko4.jpg)http://img110.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/7307/img0016ln1.th.jpg (http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0016ln1.jpg)http://img518.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/4836/img0019mv4.th.jpg (http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0019mv4.jpg)http://img408.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

[Scumback Speakers]

The T1534 pic (nice work!) appears to have a very faded, or incorrectly stamped "E" or "F" in front of it, making it a May or June of 1970 speaker.

That cab's cloth has certainly faded, huh? Looks great, too bad the logos are missing or cracked. :)

[freerideman]

thanks a lot south'
the faded stamps is a E , what a shit !!! I've never seen before !!!:jo

So what about the last letter on each code , "Y" for the T1281 and "R" for the T1534

Could I considere that the reconed operation on the T1281 has been done around 1969-1970 or is there a chance the cone is youngest than the other T1281?

thanks

[Glide]

Just want to bump this one up.

One of the best threads ever on this forum.

[Jeff West]

Celestion has confirmed that the "following letters" after the date code, like the "Y" and the "R" in those cases, are individual inspector's codes.

Incidentally, another detail they've rediscovered recently that can have dating significance, and I'm not sure if this has come up on this thread or not, concerns details of the stamping of the terminal plate. If you look at the photo of "C19R", for example, you notice that the black grommet for the flow thru of the connecting wire is set in via a slot cut into the side of the black terminal board. The red one on the other side will be the same. However, if you check a real early greenback say '66 you'll find that there are no slots, the grommets are set in the body of the terminal board purely through a hole, no opening to the edge. Reportedly, the slots appeared approx August 1968, which is before the frames changed consistently. I haven't double checked that date in detail myself, but I did look at '66 and '67 specimens I had handy and they had no slots, and '69 and later all did.

Jeff W.

[analogmike]

OK, a local guy offered me up a nice '69ish cabinet with T-1281 G12H (?) with no stickers.

The date codes are GB9 and JB29 (1969) and 17KA and 3KA (1968).

One cone has a normal looking code of 102 014

The other three have WHF5278 on them, looks suspiciously like
last week of 1978 cones??? Cabinet ser@ is 43762 model 1960A

Any ideas on those WHF5278 codes and what that would do to the value?

Thanks!

[haslar]

Jim:

Have you ever thought about writing the definitive book about Celestions?

I'm serious.
The world NEEDS a well-informed book about those speakers.
The only available reference I know of, is Doyle's book about the History of Marshall, and even though it's a great read, it has a few mistakes and is not THE definitive reference. Not that it pretends to be, BTW.

Why not contact the Celestion people (incl. the ones that post on this very board regularly) and talk about it?

I'm sure you would get MASSIVE help from Celestion fanatics on this board, including pictures, info and the like.

What'd you think?

[Scumback Speakers]

OK, a local guy offered me up a nice '69ish cabinet with T-1281 G12H (?) with no stickers.

The date codes are GB9 and JB29 (1969) and 17KA and 3KA (1968).

One cone has a normal looking code of 102 014

The other three have WHF5278 on them, looks suspiciously like
last week of 1978 cones??? Cabinet ser@ is 43762 model 1960A

Any ideas on those WHF5278 codes and what that would do to the value?

Thanks!

The three that have the WHF codes are reconed speakers, sir. Sorry. The 102 014 is an original cone.

Jim:

Have you ever thought about writing the definitive book about Celestions?

I'm serious.
The world NEEDS a well-informed book about those speakers.
The only available reference I know of, is Doyle's book about the History of Marshall, and even though it's a great read, it has a few mistakes and is not THE definitive reference. Not that it pretends to be, BTW.

Why not contact the Celestion people (incl. the ones that post on this very board regularly) and talk about it?

I'm sure you would get MASSIVE help from Celestion fanatics on this board, including pictures, info and the like.

What'd you think?

It's an idea, and all I'd have to do is get Jeff West, Duncan Boniface, Celestion's guys and myself locked up in a room for a week to go over all of the data, and get the photo shoot ready with two different cameramen plus a lighting crew and backdrop/prop crew to setup all the speakers.

And at the end of the ordeal, I'd imagine we'd sell 20 or 30 of them... LOL.

Seriously...this is something that would be a labor of love and not for profits, as I'm sure there is a real limited market for it. And you know it would have to be on a DVD or something cuz then people would want sound clips of the various speakers with numerous amps and guitars.

I dunno, if you can talk Jeff West, Rick Skillman, Duncan, and Celestion into it, then have Marshall Amps fund it...then we might be talking. :)

[jrigg]

Jim:

Have you ever thought about writing the definitive book about Celestions?

I'm serious.
The world NEEDS a well-informed book about those speakers.
The only available reference I know of, is Doyle's book about the History of Marshall, and even though it's a great read, it has a few mistakes and is not THE definitive reference. Not that it pretends to be, BTW.

Why not contact the Celestion people (incl. the ones that post on this very board regularly) and talk about it?

I'm sure you would get MASSIVE help from Celestion fanatics on this board, including pictures, info and the like.

What'd you think?

A book may not sell a bunch of copies but a Celestion sponsored website/link to a site that contained the amazing info that you have about these great old speakers would be awesome!

[Groovey Records]

Jim

Backbeat Books, the publisher of Dave Hunter's books on Tube Amplifiers, Guitars rigs and Pickups is a division of Hal Leonard.

They be the right publishing house for the job and might give you a deal and foot the photographers bill if you included it as part of an Historic Overview.

Then Maybe every University library would buy one:D





It's an idea, and all I'd have to do is get Jeff West, Duncan Boniface, Celestion's guys and myself locked up in a room for a week to go over all of the data, and get the photo shoot ready with two different cameramen plus a lighting crew and backdrop/prop crew to setup all the speakers.

And at the end of the ordeal, I'd imagine we'd sell 20 or 30 of them... LOL.

Seriously...this is something that would be a labor of love and not for profits, as I'm sure there is a real limited market for it. And you know it would have to be on a DVD or something cuz then people would want sound clips of the various speakers with numerous amps and guitars.

I dunno, if you can talk Jeff West, Rick Skillman, Duncan, and Celestion into it, then have Marshall Amps fund it...then we might be talking. :)

[analogmike]

The three that have the WHF codes are reconed speakers, sir. Sorry. The 102 014 is an original cone.


Thanks for the info, that's what I thought... I still might like it for my collection, if it sounds as good as I think it will. Any idea how much less the reconed speakers are worth?

[frankencat]

Every time I see this thread pop up it reminds me of the time back in the early-mid 80's when I worked in a guitar shop in NY. We had this pile of greenbacks most of which were 70's vintage, some blown or damaged but quite a few good ones. Anyway we were cleaning out some of the old parts that had been lying around for years and I can remember as clear as yesterday throwing at least a dozen and probably more like twenty greenies in the dumpster ad thinking, man too bad noone wants these cheapo speakers. :messedup

[Scumback Speakers]

Thanks for the info, that's what I thought... I still might like it for my collection, if it sounds as good as I think it will. Any idea how much less the reconed speakers are worth?

I'm sorry to tell you this. Not much. They'd only be husks to be rebuilt. $40-50 each in their present reconed state. A proper recone will cost $85 and up for each one, and even then they'll never be worth the $400-500 your one original speaker is worth.

Every time I see this thread pop up it reminds me of the time back in the early-mid 80's when I worked in a guitar shop in NY. We had this pile of greenbacks most of which were 70's vintage, some blown or damaged but quite a few good ones. Anyway we were cleaning out some of the old parts that had been lying around for years and I can remember as clear as yesterday throwing at least a dozen and probably more like twenty greenies in the dumpster ad thinking, man too bad noone wants these cheapo speakers. :messedup

Yeah...similar to when players were dumping their PAF's in the 70's for ceramic magnets and DiMarzio Super Distortion pickups, I'll wager. :NUTS

[Jeff West]

It's an idea, and all I'd have to do is get Jeff West, Duncan Boniface, Celestion's guys and myself locked up in a room for a week to go over all of the data, and get the photo shoot ready with two different cameramen plus a lighting crew and backdrop/prop crew to setup all the speakers.


Actually, that sounds like it might be fun! I think Chris Merren knows where some of the Celestion skeletons, er, formulae are buried too.

I'm also looking forward to Jim Elyea's VOX book very soon, I think it will have some new quality info on select vintage Celestions.

[analogmike]

I'm sorry to tell you this. Not much. They'd only be husks to be rebuilt. $40-50 each in their present reconed state. A proper recone will cost $85 and up for each one, and even then they'll never be worth the $400-500 your one original speaker is worth.


Thanks for the info, that's too bad... How can I tell if they are proper recones? I would think the recone kits in 1978 were better than the ones available now (original parts) and more valuable.

[Jeff West]

Mike- FWIW, in this case, "5278" is a cone number but not a date code. Waldom replacement cones do go back many decades, though.

PS: I'm gonna get those three SD-9s to you for work any day now, been diverted as usual . . .

Jeff W.

[analogmike]

Ah, I thought it was the date code as he has had this cab 20 years so I knew they must have been reconed a long time ago (before he got it). Waldom (Wharfdale?) cones are not that great then, I take it?

We're ready for your SD9s any time, thanks!

[dtb]

Yeah...similar to when players were dumping their PAF's in the 70's for ceramic magnets and DiMarzio Super Distortion pickups, I'll wager. :NUTS


I threw a Plexi head back in 1974 :(

Then I painted a mid 60's Vox AC30 Orange to match my newly hand painted 1963 Strat........I then sold my Matamp cab for £4 ( $8 ) to finance some ciggies :(


Oh boy do I still have nightmares about all this.

[Scumback Speakers]

I threw a Plexi head back in 1974 :(

Then I painted a mid 60's Vox AC30 Orange to match my newly hand painted 1963 Strat........I then sold my Matamp cab for £4 ( $8 ) to finance some ciggies :(


Oh boy do I still have nightmares about all this.

I'm surprised the gear gods haven't struck you down with multiple lightning bolts. I guess the "gear I used to have" nightmares will continue, huh?

:D

[jezzzz2003]

A question,

the G12M-25 re-issues, English and Chinese, same spkrs,
The new Marshall 425 cabs have the same 25 watters as came stock in the jimi hendrix full stack and sound awesome, I was under the impression that standard 12m's were that reproduction as used in the 60's/70's?
I really like the Jimi spkrs, whats the diff?

[littlewing]

Hi people!

Am i right by thinking my speakers (just bought them today) have been made on 15 january 1970?

Thames Ditton Celestion(green cover for 1 of them, other 3 doesn't have one anymore)
G12H, 8ohms, 75hz
Frame:T1234
Code: AC15V what means the "V"?
Paper:102 003.

Thank you for any comments.

Gr. from Amsterdam!

[nik]

Who makes the best recone kit for these 70's celestion's these days? Who does the best recones on them?
thanks.

[rtaylo30]

I believe that I can take apart a pre-rola speaker, replace the voice coil, glue it back together without destroying the original cone! I practiced on a Weber speaker. The cone ripped around the surround but I cut out the screen surround from a 55hz kurt-mueller cone and glued it to the bottom of the original cone with A90 (speaker dope). When I glued the gaskets on, it looked new because the riped part was under the gasket! I've been looking for blown pre-rolas to try my technique on. Does anyone have some I can have?

For you reconers, don't throw away the orignial cones! Try my method and see if it works! You do have to spend a little time to work the glue off the dust cap/ voice coil but the end results are better on the ears! :drool

[djsmith]

any one else can help here ?

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?p=5109363#post5109363

thanks

[Real-JJCale]

*** I guess the "gear I used to have" nightmares will continue, huh?

:D


lucky opposite in my case...

I bought an old (broken) Jennings-Amp with 4 speakers. When I opened the back...:bow

by chance I've got a quad of old greenbacks in absolute excellent conditions.

all speakers have V 24JB and T1217 on their side.

two of them with 17 102 003, one with 18 102 003 and the other one with 19 102 003.

now my question: what is the difference / meaning of 17 .../18 .../19 ... ?

and what is the value of these (even still original soldered) speakers?

Thank you for any information & a BIG THX to Jim for his great job!

RJJC

P.S. hmm... can't attach any pics here..., sorry

[Real-JJCale]

***
what means the "V"?
***


Hy littlewing,

"V" in front (or back) is the quality inspectors stamp.

regards
RJJC

[Roe]

just found a cab with 4 speakers - pic shows codes to be T 1221 and C D9U.
seller says these are blackbacks from 1971, 3 original, 1 repaired

what do you think - are these any good. price seems to be fair

[Scumback Speakers]

just found a cab with 4 speakers - pic shows codes to be T 1221 and C D9U.
seller says these are blackbacks from 1971, 3 original, 1 repaired

what do you think - are these any good. price seems to be fair

1971 speakers would have Greenbacks, not BlackBacks, which came out in 75 and later. CD9 would indicate a March 9th, 1971 date code. Perhaps the plastic magnet covers have been swapped, or the pic is bad? Better check the cone #'s, too, as they should be 102 003, or 102/3 cones for 71.

Email what you have to me, OK?

[Roe]

the seller thinks they are blackbacks, possibly because of the black marshall logo on the back. he's not an expert on this but have dated the speakers based on the codes.
this is a basketweave cab, a pa 4x12" 100w cab

I asked him to check if it has the 102/3 code

any idea if it is 55hz or 75hz, g12M or g12H?

[Scumback Speakers]

I've seen them both ways, H's and M's, Roe. Time for Txxxx codes, cone #'s and pics.

[Roe]

The pics I've seen is very poor, showing a t1221 code and the CD9U date code. I will take a look at the cab in person during Christmas

[littlewing]

Thank you JJ...!

[doriangrey]

How did I do guys? I just won this 71 G12H30 T1281 for $222.50. From my research, this will sound like a pre-rola due to the Pulsonic cone.

http://rover.ebay.com/ar/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?mpt=%5BCacheBuster%5D&adtype=1&size=1x1&type=4&campid=5335828753&toolid=10001&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI.dl l%3FViewItem%26item%3D230314616414http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230314616414 (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=3&campid=5335828753&toolid=10001&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI.dl l%3FViewItem%26item%3D230314616414)

[doriangrey]

Thought I would share. The second one definitely sound more 3 dimensional than the first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81KTY3gpe6A

[Roe]

the seller thinks they are blackbacks, possibly because of the black marshall logo on the back. he's not an expert on this but have dated the speakers based on the codes.
this is a basketweave cab, a pa 4x12" 100w cab

I asked him to check if it has the 102/3 code

any idea if it is 55hz or 75hz, g12M or g12H?

the cones say 51 102 003

[analogmike]

Someone is selling this cabinet and says the speakers are G12M-70 speakers. They sure look like old greenbacks to me, what do you think?

http://www.analogman.com/graphics/celestions.jpg

[Scumback Speakers]

Look like G12H30's to me. Better get some cone #'s before you buy, though, and test the cab for tone.

[Mike Bloomfield]

What an incredible source of knowledge everyone!

This has got me so well educated that I have bought a '67 Pre-Rola G12M and 4x Pre-Rola G12M original cones all for under 100 pounds - lol -and they sound 'kin fantastic.

Another great trick I found along the way one evening, whilst A/B ing about 30 old cones, is to wallop a G12-65 and G12H 30 (70Hz) into an old piggy back Fender cab and then try putting yer old Fender or early Marshall through her - can't be legal...

Also, although we are all after those old 300 year old paper cones - which are obviously impossible to make exactly the same anymore, a moments pause for the new Celestion Gold (there's your commercial opportunity to steer your webpage/book towards) and the hemp creations. We have a company called Lorantz in Australia, run by another Michael, who bought and has worked in the original Rola factory in Melbourne Victoria for donkeys, and their hemp Greenback clone is to die for - Mike has been knocking these out for over thirty years and believes the newer releases were somewhat of a patent breach to say teh least...

Now, if you ever, ever see one brothers and sisters, the old Rola equivalent of a greenback from the late 60's is said to be a model 12UEG - and legend has it that that dark Aussie horse even surpasses even the finest sacred Greenback tone that we all love so dear!

Happy new year fellow tone gurus and thanks for the excellent education and highly intelligent and pleasureable reading.

God Bless,

Mike Bloomfield Jnr
(yes, real name and comes with original '59 burst and PAF's -paying dues and playing blues like the namesake) :phones

[Krustythebrown]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250365284037

I decided to shift the second set of these if anyone is interested.

[Q-me]

hi folks,
first, thanks to everybody who has helped collect all this info. i picked up a bunch of stuff for 30 bucks, 2 amps, pedals, yadayada. in the dean marley spectrum (which sounded amazing) was a T1281 G12 H, 102 014, black tab greenback. this is the first one i've ever owned and would like to know:1st date code is faint but looks like CB2. second is, can i use this in my brown faced bandmaster 50w,1961, 1x12 tone ring cab? don't wanna blow this beauty. thanks again for any info
Q-me (in)

[Scumback Speakers]

Q-me, that speaker is only 30 watts, so I would not recommend you use it with your 50 watt amp unless you kept the volume below 3-4 or had an attenuator in line. CB2 is March 2, 1969 for it's date code.

[Q-me]

hay thanks for the quick response, wow '69, i'm havin a custom 18 watt amp made for the speaker. let ya know how it turns out. peace

[mamberg]

I just picked up a Blackback, T1871, 55hz 444 cone, date code KK17 and was looking forward to pairing it with a Heritage greenback, but when I put it in the cab, something is wrong.

It sounded great at first (at low volumes), but since it was late at night, I didn't want to make TOO much racket, so I hit a quick, hard percussive palm mute. The greenback sounded just like it should, but the Blackback had a kind of reverb sound that lingered after the chord was muted.
It kinda went d d d d d d d d - although even the first repeat was way quieter than the chord, you could still hear it.:dunno

What could be the problem? The cone is in good shape, there is nothing loose in the cabinet or speaker, there is no voice coil rub and it sounds great while a note is sounding.
I am assuming there is not easy fix, but if anyone knows what this could be, or possible solutions, I would appreciate it.
Thanks

[Scumback Speakers]

mamberg, as I found out the hard way, just because they don't have voice coil rub doesn't mean they sound good when played, which is why I went through over 300 of them in my tone quest for the best sounding Pre Rola tone.

I would suggest taking it to a speaker reconing service and have them test it on a wave form generator, give it about 20-25 watts so you don't overpower it, and listen to see if it's good or not.

I just got done doing this at OCSR (www.speakerrepair.com) for a speaker I'm doing a deal on.

If you can't find a place that does this, then just try it by itself at 20-25 watts volume and see if it still makes the noise. Good luck!

[mamberg]

thanks - I guess I'm still on the learning curve.
have you heard a speaker make this 'spring reverb' sound after a note stops before?
really curious what it could be. it sounds like the speaker just keeps moving after the signal stops - like the suspension is overpowering the magnet, but it sounds right while the signal is applied??

it was running in series with the heritage, driven by a JTM45, volume 3-4, so I am sure it was getting under 25 watts.

[HEY!YOU!]

Soooo Jim, what's the difference between a Greenback and a Pre-Rola ?

And how do you tell the fakes from the real ones?
:dunno



















Ha......

[Scumback Speakers]

Soooo Jim, what's the difference between a Greenback and a Pre-Rola ?

And how do you tell the fakes from the real ones?
:dunno Ha......

You royal PITA from Colorado...sheesh! When you coming over to buy lunch? Monday, Tuesday? :munch

:D

[Mr Benn]

hi guys,
just want to be sure that these cone codes look legit the chassis code is 01LA looks like the model is T1221

http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/44509/2434933270055079378S600x600Q85.jpg


http://inlinethumb56.webshots.com/17911/2269772790055079378S600x600Q85.jpg

thanks!

Edit: ok so search didn't help me,but reading past page two did :P
So it looks like these are real Pulsonic cones then

if my understanding is correct O1LA is january 1st 1966 right?

any idea what the four of these from my basketweave are worth?

[paul525715]

Post deleted

[Trotter]

Hey guys... hoping to get some help figuring out what the specs are on my old Greenbacks:

Codes:

34 102 014

T1511

02MA (if I am correct this = 1968?)

Also, any idea on what they're worth?

Thanks in advance!

[Robifumi]

Hi guys
been reading this thread with interest especially after removing 4 speakers from my old 1970's Hiwatt 4x12 cab at the weekend.
The speakers are Rola Cestion 30w 16ohm 75c/s made in Ipswich. I can't make out of they're T1212 or T1217. Just wondered what the age and value is of these. Are they guitar spkrs or PA? Is there any difference? They sounded great in my Hiwatt cab for 12 yrs :AOK
I can't post pictures yet unfortunately.
Cheers
Rob

[citizen]

HI

I'm in Ireland and a mate told me about your expertise as I've just found what I think is a pre-rola greenback lying in a shed !!

Here's some pics

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k405/citizen68/DSC00084.jpg

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k405/citizen68/DSC00090.jpg

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k405/citizen68/DSC00089.jpg

I've tried wading through your wealth of information at the start of the thread but got lost quickly.. I tested the terminals with a multimeter but didn't get any reading, although both leads to the cone look OK. My mate Declan (you probably know him) said all may not be lost - cone looks fine apart from dust and cobwebs...

Help!!

I'd really like to get this going for my Blackstar Artisan 15 head so any help greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Kieran

[Scumback Speakers]

That's a 55hz G12M with the Pulsonic 102 014 cone, made June 10th, 1970. It's worth a good chunk of money.

However, it's time to check the lead wires to make sure they're hooked up to the cone AND the hooks on the speaker tab. If it is and you still get no reading on the multimeter then you've probably got a shorted voice coil and it's time to recone it. Sorry.

[citizen]

Many thanks for that information & for taking the time out to reply- When you say it's worth a chunk of money could you give me a ball park figure?

Anyways I'll be checking the speaker out in detail next week so i'll let you know how I get on... I'd really like to salvage it (for usage not onward sale) but living in Ireland I'm guessing there aren't any specialists re-coning speakers based locally - could you recommend any Ireland/UK based companies? Or could I contact Celestion?

Dyin to breathe some low(ish) wattage valves through this thing to see what it sounds like!

Cheers

Kieran

[Scumback Speakers]

It's value is in the $300-400 USD range BUT ONLY WITH THE ORIGINAL CONE IF IT HAS NO ISSUES.

If you recone it, it's a $100-125 USD speaker, if that. The tone & the value is in the cone, not the magnet, label, frame or anything else.

[Birdy]

Jim...when is your book coming out ?.....seriously man.

[Scumback Speakers]

Jim...when is your book coming out ?.....seriously man.
Puhlease. I don't know it all by any means. Sure I've learned a lot ($40,000 plus in lessons!), but there's so much of the Celestion speaker cone/type/etc history lost in the last 40 years that I constantly learn new stuff.

Check back with me in another 5 years, I'll probably know a bunch more. :D

[Gold Foil]

This is a local made 2x12 cab loaded with two old Celestions.
The cab sounds dark and therefore never gets much use.
This thread sparked my interest to open up the cab and this is what I found:

Two G12H 30, T1281 speakers with cones marked 4.
Foam lining sides and back of cab.
Cab is 10 1/2 inches thick.

My question is: Which factors contribute to a dark sounding cab?
I've read earlier in the thread that these speakers have bass cones.
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh245/primitivesounds/IMGP0071.jpg
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh245/primitivesounds/IMGP0073.jpg
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh245/primitivesounds/IMGP0078.jpg
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh245/primitivesounds/IMGP0076.jpg

BTW These speakers came to me 5 years ago when I purchased a $100 homemade 4x12 that weighed a ton.
The speakers inside were a matched quad.
I wish I still had the other two speakers!

[Scumback Speakers]

They shouldn't sound that dark...those "4" cones are 55hz bass cones, but the G12H models had some treble to them. Sounds like they might have been hit with too much power and got hurt so they don't sound like they're supposed to.

Here are some clips of an old G12H30 55hz like yours. Maybe this will help you decide if they're still good.

Do they sound like this with a Les Paul/Marshall setup?
http://southbayampworks.com/stf/22scumclip.mp3 = 22-G12H30-55hz-PreRola-Marshall-LP.mp3

Strat/65 Amps London
http://southbayampworks.com/stf/06scumclip.mp3 = 06-G12H30-55hz-PreRola-65Amp-Strat.mp3

Les Paul/65 Amps London
http://southbayampworks.com/stf/19scumclip.mp3 = 19-G12H30-55hz-PreRola-65Amp-LP.mp3

[Gold Foil]

Thanks a bunch for the clip. I'm going to pull the foam in the cab and compare it to my 4x12 (T1221, 25w, lead greenbacks) tonight.

I wonder if two G12H30 speakers can handle a 50w Marshall output. I think the Bluesbreaker combos in the late 60s contained two 20w or 25w speakers.
I use a 50 watt Marshall and a UA attenuator. I'm never in a position to play it full volume, no attenuator. Maybe two 65 watt speakers would be better?

[Scumback Speakers]

Gold Foil, check your email. I sent you some information there, rather than post on this thread.

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

Bump for a good thread.

I just discovered Vintage 30s came with different cones, 1777 with large dust caps and 444 cones with small dust caps ...... :confused: I wonder what the first year the Vintage 30 was, what they were modeled after and the tone they were after?

[Scumback Speakers]

Bump for a good thread.

I just discovered Vintage 30s came with different cones, 1777 with large dust caps and 444 cones with small dust caps ...... :confused: I wonder what the first year the Vintage 30 was, what they were modeled after and the tone they were after?

Vintage 30's always came with 444 cones and small dust caps, at least stock. Pretty sure you've got some reconed V30's there DT.

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

Vintage 30's always came with 444 cones and small dust caps, at least stock. Pretty sure you've got some reconed V30's there DT.


That would be the only way to explain it.

Do you know the first year of the Vin 30? ... and was the idea to make a higher power handling greenback style speaker, or was it a clean slate when they designed that one? :confused:

... or do you know? :)

[Scumback Speakers]

That would be the only way to explain it.

Do you know the first year of the Vin 30? ... and was the idea to make a higher power handling greenback style speaker, or was it a clean slate when they designed that one? :confused:

... or do you know? :)

Their idea was to make a ceramic version of the Alnico Blue, according to the History of Marshall. Needless to say they didn't get too close to a Blue tone.

First year production came out in 1984 with the Marshall Studio 15, which it was designed for. It was just called the G12 Vintage, IIRC. The Vintage 30 name came later in the 80's after they used it for other things, and supplied it separately from the Marshall combo amp.

[ghandi]

hi southbay,
I've got two rola G12M T1221 75hz 102/3 cone speakers
one of them has a black speaker tap the otherone has a grey tap.

both have the "regular" rola logo, the one with the grey tap also has a false 55hz label and the date codes are a bit odd DEV and DEX...

what speakers do I've got there?

thanks!

[Scumback Speakers]

ghandi...wow, back from the dead and playing old G12M's, eh? :D Just kidding.

You've got what you wrote about, T12212 G12M 25w 75 hz bass response, 102/3 Pulsonic coned Celestions. Assuming they're in good shape, with no noise or voice coil rub issues, they're a $250-350 speaker.

DE is for April, 1972, the # in front of the DE is the day of the month they were made. The X is an inspector stamp/identification letter.

[Scumback Speakers]

Post #426 shows the pre rola era label. Yours is at best a "transition rola" label from what you've described. Go back to page #1-2 of this thread to see those labels and the differences. Black tabs are usually pre rola era, but the most important thing is the cone. The 102 003, 102/3 and 3 cones are all the same type cone, so you have pre rola tone, just not pre rola labels.

Unless you're trying to sell them for massive cash, the tone is the same, the bragging rights aren't. Only pre rolas get the bragging rights in the vintage speaker world.

But if you put those speakers of yours in a closed back cab next to another closed back cab with pre rola G12M's, no one would know.

As for speaker matching/swapping, take that to email, please. I want this thread be about identification of old Greenbacks, OK? Thanks.

[20 century boy]

HI

Just a question about 15" speakers ( not really greenback but they're often called the greenback 15"), I own a G15M, I've seen G15H and G15C, so I guess M is for medium magnet and H for Heavy magnet as usual with Celestion but what "C" stands for?

[Dave Millsop]

Hi

I'm new to the board, and I've just put a pair of G12H's on ebay (selling for a friend who wants a quick sale) and I hope somebody can take a look just in case I've got any of the details wrong.

Link here:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=140321788172

Hope someone can help.
Cheers, Dave

[mc2NY]

Speaking of Celestion G15C model speakers....I have a few early Orange bass cabs with them loaded and also a pair of early Orange Matamp bass 2x15 bass cabs with them as well. The Orange ones have date codes but the OrMat ones do not. They have model T1101 printed on the spider frames. I checked under the magnet covers and also on the front/surrounds...NO CODES. The front surrounds have black/not cork rings. I'm guessing that maybe they were reconed at some point and that the cork surrounds were date stamped and those were discarded in a recone?

Anyone know if that would be a correct guess? Anyone able to narrow the date down? I'm guessing 1968, maybe '69?

Of interesting/historical note...these cabs were John McVie's during the Peter Green Fleetwood Mac era and also used in the early 70s Fleetwood Mac. He had four of these cabs, I assume custom made, as I have never seen others and these carry no SN# tags or have evidence of missing tags. I got them from the second owner who bought them in the 80s from Fleetwood Mac in a "Fleetwood Mac Garage Sale" at their storage warehouse in the San Fernando valley outside of Los Angeles. He also had a Fleetwood Mac logo'd combo amp roadcase and one of Bob Welsh's SUNN cabs with his 70s side band "PARIS" stencil still on it. These OrMat cabs came with the original FM stemciled roadcases but the guy threw them out for lack of space over the years. Too bad. Also, I assume once McVie went from two of these cabs to four for larger venues and started stacking them 2x12 he flipped the OrangeMatamp front badges/grills to horizontal to read correctly. Skid rails also run horizontal along the long side on these cabs.

Three of the cones have 40 751 002 codes and one had 39 751 002.

The cabs are close to size of Fender Dual Showman Cabs (44x30x12) and sound amazing.

I'm looking for another pair of G15C's to replace the Fanes in another early Orange bass cab if anyone has a pair....email me a t mc2@usa.com

Pics for interested:

http://home.earthlink.net/~mc2/images/OrMatMcVieCabsWeb.jpg (http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emc2/images/OrMatMcVieCabsWeb.jpg)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ8AcEYTEFY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoSbrTwA4ps&feature=related

[Roe]

Hi

I'm new to the board, and I've just put a pair of G12H's on ebay (selling for a friend who wants a quick sale) and I hope somebody can take a look just in case I've got any of the details wrong.

Link here:
http://rover.ebay.com/ar/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?mpt=%5BCacheBuster%5D&adtype=1&size=1x1&type=4&campid=5335828753&toolid=10001&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.co.uk%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI. dll%3FViewItem%26ssPageName%3DSTRK%3AMESELX%3AIT%2 6item%3D140321788172http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=140321788172 (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=3&campid=5335828753&toolid=10001&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.co.uk%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI. dll%3FViewItem%26ssPageName%3DSTRK%3AMESELX%3AIT%2 6item%3D140321788172)

Hope someone can help.
Cheers, Dave

those are blackbacks rather than greenbacks

[mfolet]

I have a Marshall basketweave cab with 4 matching date code celestion G12M 25 watt T1221 from may28 1970(EC28R).The cone codes 18 102 003 on the top two and WHF 5278 on the bottom two.Great sounding cab.One speaker is missing the plastic cover.This is a cool thread.
http://images49.fotki.com/v1507/photos/0/35690/7282156/P1030667-vi.jpg

[mfolet]

Looks like the bottom two are reconed.The top two are mint!!Well two out of 4 aint bad.What are the value of these?
http://images47.fotki.com/v1478/photos/0/35690/7282156/P1030659-vi.jpg

[rikkie]

Hi,

is there a differnce in sound between a:

old GREENback Celestion G12H 30w 55hz Factory date EF8, and a
old BLACKback Celestion G12H 30w 55hz Factory date EF9
thanx

[Scumback Speakers]

Hi,

is there a differnce in sound between a:

old GREENback Celestion G12H 30w 55hz Factory date EF8, and a
old BLACKback Celestion G12H 30w 55hz Factory date EF9
thanx

If you have a black back magnet cover on a May 9th, 1973 speaker, it's been swapped after the original Greenback cover fell off. Blackbacks didn't show up before 1975. If the frame # is T1281 or T1534 (16 ohm versions) then they should have 55hz cones. It they're T1217 or T1234 they have 75hz cones.

What you really need to find out is what the cone #'s (white ink stamp on the back of the cone paper) are.

If they're 102/14, 102 014 or 4, they should be original 55hz cones and sound the same.
If they're 102/3, 102 003 or 3, they should be original 75hz cones and sound the same.
Any other cone # you find is not original for a May 73 speaker.

[rikkie]

thanx for your answer

"it's been swapped after the original Greenback cover fell off"

Who swapped the back's, somebody at the factory!!!
because i have now 12 blackbacks speakers, most of them before 1975.
i can not imagine that people ordering blackbacks covers and swapping them by themselves.
So the Greenback covers fall of in the factory, and replace by blackbacks??

[Scumback Speakers]

Based on my own purchases, which total well over 400 vintage Celestions, I've NEVER, EVER seen a black back cover on a pre 1975 Celestion. As I've illustrated (in pics) in this thread: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=67646&page=2

there were Greenbacks till late 73/early 74, then gray or creambacks till early 75, then the black backs showed up.

So that leaves a couple of conclusions.

1) Your magnet covers have been changed/painted.

2) Your date codes have been altered.

I'm basing this on buying over $40k worth of speakers over 8 years. That's the only logical conclusion my buying experience leads me to. If you check around the net, you'll likely see the same thing from those who've got original Celestions. I don't mean to make you think I'm the end all be all Celestion authority, as I'm not. But I have a bit of experience.

[rikkie]

Ok, thanx Jim,

i will, when i have the time mail some foto's of my speaker ( with cone stamps) to you.
then we can find out the date of Birth.

thanx again

[Scumback Speakers]

Ok, thanx Jim,

i will, when i have the time mail some foto's of my speaker ( with cone stamps) to you.
then we can find out the date of Birth.

thanx again

EF 8 is May 8th, 1973. I know this for a fact, and I also know they came with green magnet covers. On the 2nd page of my thread I linked before, I have a G12H30 55hz cone T1281 pictured:

http://southbayampworks.com/greenbacks/rola55label2.jpg

The only real question is what your cone # is in that speaker, and what your date and Txxxx codes look like. I'll need pics of the front of the cone (have to unmount the speaker) from the dust cap area out to the cone edges at the gasket.

I've had to authenticate quite a few Celestions in the last five years. I found one shop in England had reprinted the date codes and Txxxx codes to look like a 60's speaker, even though it had later 102/3 cones (post 71, not from 68 as they had stated) and gray speaker terminal tabs. That buyer (a TGP member, BTW) got a $1500 refund on a cab that had been "lashed up" as the phrase goes from the store in England. I will also tell you that store won't sell anything to me due to high shipping costs from the UK to me if they're speakers turned out to be non original. Cute, huh?

I'm hoping this hasn't happened to you, too, so send me some pics.

[LesPaulMan]

I don't mean to make you think I'm the end all be all Celestion authority, as I'm not. But I have a bit of experience.

Saying you have a bit of experience with old Celestions is like saying Richard Petty drove in a few races. LOL

I've got to dig out the one old Greenback I own and find out what it is, as it's been in a box for the last decade.

[rikkie]

Hi Jim,

The new G30H 30w 55hz, also wit a 102/014 cone, (pulsonic i suppose).
How does it sounds comparing with a old one.

thanx

[Scumback Speakers]

Hi Jim,

The new G30H 30w 55hz, also wit a 102/014 cone, (pulsonic i suppose).
How does it sounds comparing with a old one.

thanx

It's not the same tone. The Pulsonic cones ended in 1974. While the Heritage has the same specs, the tone is brighter than the original 55hz G12H30's, even though the cone # stamp has been re-used. In side by side tests, the new Heritage was louder, and much brighter than an original G12H30 55hz T1281 with the Pulsonic 102 014 cone.

[rikkie]

Hi Jim,

i have a G12H 30w 55hz - BROKE!!!! - cone 444
what kind or type of recone kit can i get for this speaker.
can you give me link where i can buy them, or maybe you can deliver it

thanx in advance

rik

http://www.maxxis.be/G12H444.JPG

[Scumback Speakers]

rikkie, I would contact Orange County Speaker Repair, www.speakerrepair.com, and talk to them. They have the 444 cones and their own USA made aftermarket voice coil recone kits for fairly reasonable costs. If you specify the old pre rola style doping you should be fairly close to the tone you have with this speaker, although you'll have to break it in well before it will start to sound the same.

[R13D]

What a great thread,somehow I missed it over all these years! It makes me want to get the screwdriver out(make that a phillips drill bit) and check the G12H30's in my 72' or so Orange 4x12.

[rikkie]

Hi Jim,

Thanx for your response.

I think you like some pictures from speakers.
I have 16 old cabinets, so each time when i open a cabinet i gonna take some pictures and send them to ya, if you don't mind.

first Picture: Black- Creme- Grey and GreenBack

PS: frame under the Greenback cap, is a new G12 Heritage (its only for the picture)

http://www.maxxis.be/speakers%20rik/4Backs.jpg

1976 June 25 - FJ25 - T1217(i think) - G12M - 16Ohm -75hz
http://www.maxxis.be/speakers%20rik/1976-FJ25-T1217-G12M-16-75.jpg

1978-Juni 14 - FL14 - T1281 - G12H -16Ohm - 55hz
http://www.maxxis.be/speakers%20rik/1978-FL14-T1281-G12H-16-55.jpg

Greetings

rik

[hellohole]

Hello Jim! :o

I found this Celestion sold loose on a flea market, for a very nice price. :aok
It is actually the first Celestion I have ever seen, and have tried to do some research on it but it is not easy to get info on this particular one. I was hoping that I could get some help.

Here's a photo of it:

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/3940/celestion.jpg

To clarify, it says T1234 and DK25 on it.

The cone has 1777 printed on it, and someone has written a 1 on it with a marker. Well, it looks like a 1 anyway. It's probably irrelevant.

Judging from Celestion's website, it has been manufactured on Oct 25, 1971.

The sticker consists of two parts, a top and a bottom. I found this rather odd, and I have not seen it on other pics online.

Have you seen one like this before?

Thank you for your time, sorry for wasting it. :tapedshut

[Scumback Speakers]

That's a Celestion G12H30 8 ohm 30 watt speaker with a 75 hz bass response cone (1777 cone #). The T1234 frame code is another way to identify the speaker for this information, if it's still got the original cone, of course. If it's been reconed it's probably not valid anymore, unless it was done by a reputable reconer. DK25 is April 25th, 1977, not 1971. Not sure what's up with your label, maybe it got damaged and reglued.

FYI, MOST Celestion vintage Greenbacks available to buy were made from 68 - early 74. Then came Creambacks, Graybacks until late 74 or early 75, then the Blackbacks showed up in early 75 - 79. After that silver labels applied directly to the magnets showed up in 79 with the G12-65 and G12-80 speakers.

When Celestion reissued the G12M Greenback in the late 80's (1777 and 6402 cones), the green plastic magnet cover came back on the G12M's only, but with a much different label than the earlier models.

Here's a Celestion date code chart to reference online: http://www.unclespot.com/celestion_date_codes.html

1968 - 1991

YEAR CODE MONTH CODE

1968 A January A

1969 B February B

1970 C March C

1971 D April D

1972 E May E

1973 F June F

1974 G July G

1975 H August H

1976 J September J

1977 K October K

1978 L November L

1979 M December M

1980 N

1981 P

1982 Q

1983 R

1984 S

1985 T

1986 U

1987 V

1988 W

1989 X

1990 Y

1991 Z/A

The date codes from 1968 to 1991 are written in the form: Month, Year, Day.

For example: KH7 = 7th October 1975

[Sniffy]

What are these?http://www.kennygoodwin.com/gb.jpg there is no sticker, only the green cap. They are 10's and the numbers on the fram are BD18U and 9384. The cone code is 52 1124 002. I cant find anything on the net about them. I cant even find an original pic of a 70's greenback 10. I think they came in the bluesbreaker 2x10? These are in a 4x10 marshall cab.

[Scumback Speakers]

The 9384 10" Celestion is similar to the G12H30 12" speaker in 10" size. They're killer. I have two of these and this is real close to my SA10H75 model Scumback. They're probably 15w power handling, 20w at most. You even have the desirable 002 10" Pulsonic cone, so enjoy!

[Sniffy]

any idea what 4 of these are worth ?

[Scumback Speakers]

Tough to put a price on them since they're not seen real often. I bought my two for $110-125 each about five years ago. They're probably still that much if not more.

[Snowdog212]

Was reading various threads on here.....amazing the level of detail you guys have. I'm new to the forum and wondering if you guys can tell me anything about these codes on a set of (2) 4x12 cabs I just picked up... I see a lot on 102 014 but not much 103 014. Here are the codes:

Cabinet #1 (slant) has 4 different codes (no labels, but greenbacks)
12 103 014 T1281 EC4W
12 103 014 T1281 BC24W
12 103 014 T1281 FC19R
WHF5287 T1281 V13LB
This cab doesn't sound too good.

Cabinet #2 (straight) 3 speakers are identical, no labels, no greenbacks
35 102 003 T1221 02AB
41 102 003 T1221 02AB
41 102 003 T1221 02AB
41 102 003 T1221 02AB
This cab sounds excellent, especially with the 50w plexi.

Both cabs are the old brown basketweave type.

If I figure out how to upload some pics, I'll post them.

[Scumback Speakers]

Was reading various threads on here.....amazing the level of detail you guys have. I'm new to the forum and wondering if you guys can tell me anything about these codes on a set of (2) 4x12 cabs I just picked up... I see a lot on 102 014 but not much 103 014. Here are the codes:

Cabinet #1 (slant) has 4 different codes (no labels, but greenbacks)
12 103 014 T1281 EC4W
12 103 014 T1281 BC24W
12 103 014 T1281 FC19R
WHF5287 T1281 V13LB
This cab doesn't sound too good.

Cabinet #2 (straight) 3 speakers are identical, no labels, no greenbacks
35 102 003 T1221 02AB
41 102 003 T1221 02AB
41 102 003 T1221 02AB
41 102 003 T1221 02AB
This cab sounds excellent, especially with the 50w plexi.

Both cabs are the old brown basketweave type.

If I figure out how to upload some pics, I'll post them.

You've got an odd cone # on the T1281, it should be 102 014, not 103 014. If you could send me pics of the front, back of the speaker, plus a pic of the cone #'s I might be able to figure it out better.

The WHF 5287 is a recone kit cone #, not a real Pulsonic cone like your 103 014, though, so that could be the offending tone you hear in the slant cab, unless all four are hurt/damaged, or have voice coil rub. Have to test them individually to determine which are good.

[Snowdog212]

Thanks Jim...
How does one test for "voice coil rub" exactly? I'll send you the pics of the cones and numbers via email.

[Scumback Speakers]

Thanks Jim...
How does one test for "voice coil rub" exactly? I'll send you the pics of the cones and numbers via email.

Easy, but it's not going to tell you if it rubs under a load, so it's not conclusive, OK?

Take the speaker out and put it on it's magnet with the cone facing up.

Place your two thumbs and forefingers on the cone about an inch up from the dust cap. Press down gently and evenly with all four fingers at the same time (simultaneously) about 1/8 to 3/16".

If you feel a rub, scrape, grating noise or anything that resembles metal against metal tone, you've got voice coil rub. Then it's time to have it reconed, sorry.

The only problem with this is that under a load the cone can move 3/8" or more on certain notes played, so it won't show up with this test. If the voice coil only warps under heat or a load, this test won't show it either.

What I do is to take speakers to Orange County Speaker Repair to have them tested with their waveform generator and other test gear. That shows if the speaker is weak, has VC rub under a load, or if it sounds tired or beat up, too.

[wyshbone]

I have two Marshall PA columns that I have owned since the early 70's. Each one has two Celestion greenback speakers with the following info: G12M, 20 Watts, 15 Ohms, 75 c/s, Celestion Ltd Thames Ditton, Surrey.
There are no markings on the chassis but the speaker I removed from the cabinet has T1221 on the gasket plus a code that looks like 129EM.
All four speakers are in excellent condition with no cone damage. I'm wondering if someone can ID the year for me and also an approximate value. Thanks.

[Scumback Speakers]

Send me pics of the speaker cone front, rear of frame, and cone # off the gasket, as well as the date code/T1221 area.

[Jeff West]

Sounds like 5/67, hope the cones are original!

Jeff

[bossepumas]

If I remember right, this one is from a 70's Orange 412. There's no trace of any marking on the cone. Maybe it has been reconed :cry:.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_gEhvhJ8kpYM/SrUGaxu5zqI/AAAAAAAAAFU/vurlxFlLdeU/s320/DSCN2654.JPG (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_gEhvhJ8kpYM/SrUGaxu5zqI/AAAAAAAAAFU/vurlxFlLdeU/s1600-h/DSCN2654.JPG)
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_gEhvhJ8kpYM/SrUGQrUDCMI/AAAAAAAAAFM/OAqCguFj15g/s320/DSCN2653.JPG (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_gEhvhJ8kpYM/SrUGQrUDCMI/AAAAAAAAAFM/OAqCguFj15g/s1600-h/DSCN2653.JPG)
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_gEhvhJ8kpYM/SrUGi94aHMI/AAAAAAAAAFc/GvCIJrkP6Pc/s320/DSCN2655.JPG (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_gEhvhJ8kpYM/SrUGi94aHMI/AAAAAAAAAFc/GvCIJrkP6Pc/s1600-h/DSCN2655.JPG)
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_gEhvhJ8kpYM/SrUGFqLGqNI/AAAAAAAAAFE/BKeqIoI3S78/s320/DSCN2652.JPG (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_gEhvhJ8kpYM/SrUGFqLGqNI/AAAAAAAAAFE/BKeqIoI3S78/s1600-h/DSCN2652.JPG)

[Scumback Speakers]

Looks like a Celestion recone to me, or they re-used the cork gaskets and it's another brand. Celestion cones have a cone # on them 99% of the time, IME.

[Jeff West]

Bossepumas- In person are you making that date code as "CM"? If so, I'm sure they reversed the characters, it definitely happened on occasion.

If it could be "CH" then 3/75 creamback, but that would be interesting with the black tab and open rivet.

T1217 was supposed to have lead cone stock.

Jeff

[MelMann]

Here's a question for you. I also have an old cab from '69 (marked 100 in the corner). One of the speakers is blown. I don't want to recone it, just buy a new speaker and throw it in there with the 3 old ones that are still intact. What's the closest in a modern speaker? Thanks for any input, and sorry if this is buried somewhere in this giant thread.

[Scumback Speakers]

Here's a question for you. I also have an old cab from '69 (marked 100 in the corner). One of the speakers is blown. I don't want to recone it, just buy a new speaker and throw it in there with the 3 old ones that are still intact. What's the closest in a modern speaker? Thanks for any input, and sorry if this is buried somewhere in this giant thread.

Email me. Click the link in my sig. I hate PM's so please email me. I could have a solution for you.

[Dr-Detroit]

What kind of speakers are these? i was thinking that they are Celestion G12-M but im not shure?

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l29/Professor77/000_8991.jpg
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l29/Professor77/DSC02055.jpg
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l29/Professor77/DSC02053.jpg

sorry for my bad english im from sweden,. hehe

[Dr-Detroit]

and theres written 33 102 003 on the speaker
And does anyone know what Watt they are on?

[Frank Speak]

This is an interesting thread to me. I love greenbacks, but didn't realise there were so many different ones. I have a new 4x12 with re-issue greenbacks. I don't know about hz and all that. I'm pretty sure they're the 25 watt variety, however, and I know the cab is wired at 16 ohms. I think that means they're 8 ohm speakers. Actually, they're probably 16 ohm now that I think about it. Hell, I don't know to be honest. I would guess the cab is probably wired with each pair of speakers wired parallel and then the two pairs in series.

Shoot, now I have myself confused. :(

[Dr-Detroit]

i have had them meassured up so now i know that they are 15-16 Ohm
Just eager to know more about them, like Watt and year etc.

[Scumback Speakers]

and theres written 33 102 003 on the speaker
And does anyone know what Watt they are on?

Find the Txxxx # on the speaker frame or on the cork gasket and email it to me. Then I can figure out what speaker/wattage it is.

[solitaire]

What kind of speakers are these? i was thinking that they are Celestion G12-M but im not shure?

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l29/Professor77/000_8991.jpg
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l29/Professor77/DSC02055.jpg
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l29/Professor77/DSC02053.jpg

sorry for my bad english im from sweden,. hehe
My dear fellow countryman, these are G12H. Just take a glance at the magnet cover how it reaches out far and go kind of deep into the basket. By the looks of it it also has the 55Hz cloth-surround bass cone. Doesn't appear to have the pre-Rola inner ring of dope, but all that dust in place one can't be 100% sure.

The first few pages of this thread can be very good and interesting reading for you, I think.

[blackfam]

Hi, could someone give me a rough value on 4 x G12H 8ohm 30 watt 75hz all dated FG25 on T1234 creambacks? 2 have 98700 on the cones and the other 2 have nothing at all. They are all original as they were installed in mid 1975 and hung on the wall until last year. Thanks

[Scumback Speakers]

Hi, could someone give me a rough value on 4 x G12H 8ohm 30 watt 75hz all dated FG25 on T1234 creambacks? 2 have 98700 on the cones and the other 2 have nothing at all. They are all original as they were installed in mid 1975 and hung on the wall until last year. Thanks

Seriously doubt those 98700 cones are original. Send me pics of the cones/frames (front, back, cone #'s) and I can verify it one way or another for you.

sales@southbayampworks.com

[ArthurBagwaste]

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs092.snc3/15939_223788329950_679884950_4235666_7322148_n.jpg

Hi does anyone know anything about the above type of speaker? The Date code on the arm is GJ7. I have a matching set of 4, that I am thinking of using in a cab for a 60's Impact 60w Head.

It seems they are PA speakers rather than dedicated guitar speakers, but I hear it may be possible or worthwhile to recone them - at least 2 of them are a bit flappy anyway.

Any info would be a great help, thanks!

[Scumback Speakers]

GJ7 is a date code for July 7th, 1976. Those speakers were an abortive attempt by Celestion to have a tweeter and regular cone in one, sort of a "full range" speaker. PA use sounds right, they weren't guitar amp speakers.

If you've got 1777 cone #'s on them (check the cone itself under the frame) you can get them reconed as G12M RI type speakers.

[ArthurBagwaste]

Hi thanks so much for the reply!

Abortive as in "didn't really work" I imagine.

Would the reconing be likely to be worth the expense?

I was initially excited by the "Blue" colour, although they are different looking from proper blues I thought it may have indicated a higher quality.

Would the driver cage be basically a greenback equivalent then?

[ArthurBagwaste]

Just for everyone's reference, got a very detailed reply from "The Doc" atCelestion on this matter.

According to our records this is a 12x1.75" PA speaker with a twin cone
for extended HF response and larger rolls on the main cone to extend the
LF. It might sound ok for guitar but won't be like a typical guitar
speaker, some people would like it so it's worth a listen. It uses a
magnet size called the S magnet which is smaller than the M used on the
typical Greenback but the basic metal work can be re-coned with the
assemblies used in the Vintage 30, G12M, G12T-75, G12H, G12K-100,
Classic Lead. Your speakers as is will have a power handling of around
20W but even with a high power repair kit like the G12K-100 your
metalwork would still reduce the power handling to around 50W due to the
small size of magnet. I would probably go for the G12M repair kit and
turn your speakers into G12S if you wanted to go this route.

Seems interesting enough, but from what I see I could pick up original G12S speakers for less than the cost of reconing.

Ah well then. Thanks!

[SunPark]

Hi! been watching this thread for a while with pleasure...
I have a pair of G12H30 T1217 with date code BD9 and cones with 102 003.
Whats the approx. value of these?
I really like them, have a great tone!, but they seem to be a bit strong in the low mids for my taste, I'm used to my G12M, T1221, from -74 which I like a lot!:JAM
Does older, similar to the 30's, G12M's sound like my -74's?

http://www.wallinsblues.com/div/celestion/G12H_3_640.JPG



http://www.wallinsblues.com/div/celestion/G12H_4_2_640px.JPG
http://www.wallinsblues.com/div/celestion/G12H_1_2_640px.JPG

Thanks in advance,

/Pelle

[Scumback Speakers]

Typically they're $400-450 each here in the USA. Not sure in EU.

The G12M's are very different from the G12H30's...less bottom, less treble, more mids, lower volume.

[SunPark]

Typically they're $400-450 each here in the USA. Not sure in EU.

The G12M's are very different from the G12H30's...less bottom, less treble, more mids, lower volume.

Ok! Don't know about the value in EU either...
What about similar G12M's with pulsonic cones value? I'm thinking of trading the G12H's.

That difference from G12M seems strange because my 4x12 with those -74's sounds better EQ'd in my ears, maybe it's the 4x12 configuration...?
To me it's THE reference anyway...:phones

[Snowdog212]

Jim, when you say "......less bottom, less treble, more mids, lower volume..." are you referring to the G12M in that sentence, or the G12H30's? (just wasn't sure if I was reading correctly).

[Scumback Speakers]

Jim, when you say "......less bottom, less treble, more mids, lower volume..." are you referring to the G12M in that sentence, or the G12H30's? (just wasn't sure if I was reading correctly).

G12M's.

[meyerp006]

Don't know much about speakers, I picked up a pair of Celestion G15C at a garage sale for 20 bucks, anyone know if they are worth anything? They had been sitting around since the late 70's and are still mounted in a Simms-Watts box. They appear to be in good condition and still sound good, I don't really have a use for them though. I also picked up a Simms-Watts 100 tube amp at the same time if anyone knows anything about them.

[klippbuzz]

Hi Jim, sent through a direct email on a set of 70s Celestions that I'm trying to confirm, let me know what you think.

Thanks

[Scumback Speakers]

1972 G12L speakers. Cone #'s don't look right, though. Need more pics sent to my email to verify. I sent you a reply email specifying specific cone pics I need.

I've never seen a 102 / 3 cone # with the numbers shown like yours.

1.0.2. /3.

The font/typeface is wrong, and the numbering scheme is, too. It should look like this:

http://southbayampworks.com/greenbacks/1023conecode.jpg

[j-howes]

About 10 or so years ago, I bought a homemade guitar (kinda crappy but did the joband paid for itself fairly quickly). I paid 300 bucks for the thing and the nice fellow I got it from threw in an old Traynor head and this old 'TAGUS' cabinet which my young friends and I proceeded to use as our vocal mains...Anyways, my friend was over during the holidays and we stupidly started to joke about what speakers were in the old girl. "Oh man I bet there's some old vintage greenbacks in it, huh, huh, huh...
Turns out I found 4 matched T1234 G12H30 babies in there... HA! Who knew? Check your old cabs cuz who knows you may get lucky...Thanks for the advice Scumbag.

[Scumback Speakers]

Ha ha! That's great! Now send them to me. :Spank :D