What chords are these?

[Sonic Reducer]

E
B 2 3 5
G 2 3 5
D 2 3 5
A 4 5 7
E

[Old Tele man]

_A/B...ie: A-chord with B-note in bass.
Bb/C...ie: Bb-chord with C-note in bass.
_C/E...ie: C-chord with E-note in bass.

There's TWO different ways to "look at" them:

...they're just another "way" of playing the normal A-shape chord, but with the 3rd-degree note in the bass.

...they're just an "inner-4-note" version of the "folk" G-chord:

E|--o- (root)
Bo---- 3rd
Go---- Root
Do---- 5th
A|-o-- 3rd
E|--o- (root)

[Sonic Reducer]

Anybody use these?

[Leonc]

Originally posted by mjpisat
E
B 2 3 5
G 2 3 5
D 2 3 5
A 4 5 7
E


Mike, the first chord is simply an A major, first inversion (with the 3rd, C# in the bass). You're playing the 3rd, the 5th, the root and the third again.

It's an excellent voicing and Hendrix used it all the time. It's this voicing that is used in the Wind Cries Mary.

The other two chords are just the same thing, moved up the fretboard (i.e., the second chord is an A#, the 3rd chord is a C).

You can think of them as coming from the shape of an open G chord:

E 3
B 0
G 0
D 0
A 2
E 3

Look at the shape formed on the A, D, G and B strings. Can you see the relationship? This would be a good segue into realtive minors...

[sws1]

Funny how people see the same thing differently.

I tend to look at that chord as an extension to the Open-A Bar chord.

E
B 2
G 2
D 2
A 0
E

If that's the A chord, change the low note up to the 3rd of the chord and you have:

E
B 2
G 2
D 2
A 4
E

Never thought about it as form of the open G chord. I'll have to think about that and see if it opens up any new ideas in my head.

[Leonc]

sws - the A chord and the G chord are in fact very simlar. The A voicing you've identified is produced by using your other fingers in lower positions on the E, A and high E strings.

The G voicing I refered to is produced by using your other fingers in higher positions on the E, A and high E strings. But the D, G and B strings are are the same voicing--you can actually see that the A chord in position 2 (i.e., the classic 'cowboy chord' voicing of A) is the same as moving that part of the G up two frets.

Ever learn the Doobie Bros "Listen to the Music"? It makes real good use of the voicing Mike was originally asking about (in E)...and it flips right into the relative minor (C#min) in the second part of each verse.

So...there's a direction to explore...the relationship between E major and C#minor.... :cool:

[sws1]

Yeah - I see the difference and understand it. And I knew about the G shape relationship to that chord (if I thought about it). It's just how my eyes are drawn a little differently to the shape. I'm gonna have to think "G"-shape from now on and see what happens.

[sws1]

Originally posted by Leonc

Ever learn the Doobie Bros "Listen to the Music"? It makes real good use of the voicing Mike was originally asking about (in E)...and it flips right into the relative minor (C#min) in the second part of each verse.


Oh - it's funny you say that. I bought an amp from you (I think Bogner Ecstasy Classic). In fact I spoke to you on the phone so that I could hear. And you played "Listen to the Music" as a sample. You must get a lot of mileage out of that song. :)

It all comes full circle.

[Leonc]

Ha! That's pretty funny. Probably the only two times I've played that song in the last 15 years. Used to play it as part of a Doobies medeley in a band way back when I was teaching guitar 25 years ago, and yes, I did get a lot of mileage out of it! :cool:

[Old Tele man]

...many people "learned" from the CAGED system that there are five (5) distinct, different, chord shapes, ie: "C"-shape, "A"-shape, "G"-shape, "E"-shape and "D"-shape.

... jazzers "think" differently, however, and "see" chords as being "inversion-based," ie: Root-based, 3rd-based, 5th-based, 7th-based.

...this brings a "different" perspective to chords, instead of the 5 distinct CAGED chords, there are now only THREE chords, but each chord has an UP or DOWN variant.

...for instance, first consider the "gran barre" E-shape chord on the 3rd fret which produces a G-major chord:

E 3 ...Root
B 3 ...5th
G 4 ...3rd
D 5 ...Root
A 5 ...5th
E 3 ...Root

...next, consider the same G-major chord fretted using the "folk" fingering and shape:

E 3 ...Root
B 0 ...3rd
G 0 ...Root
D 0 ...5th
A 2 ...3rd
E 3 ...Root

...Notice anything "similar" between these two shapes? Look closely!

...FIRST, while they BOTH start (bass note) on the Root of the chord, the 'second' note in each chord is different! On the E-shape chord, the 'second' note is the 5th; but, on the G-shape chord, the 'second' note is the 3rd!

...SECOND, with the E-shape chord, ALL of the notes (except E1-string) are fretted physically UP-the-neck from the Root note fret. However, with the G-shape chord, ALL of the notes (again, except the E1-string) are fretted physically DOWN-the-neck from the Root note fret on the E6-string.

...THIRD, the E6-string and E1-string are the same...thus, both chords START and END on the same note, the ROOT. But, the E-shape chord progresses from Root to 5th (think similarity to "A"-shape chord here!)...while, the G-shape chord progresses from Root to 3rd (think similarity to "D"-shape chord here!)

...now, when you "look" at a Root-note on the E6-string, you 'should' immediately think: "...ah, ha!, TWO chords," either the R-5(UP) and the E-shape, or R-3(DOWN) and the G-shape!

...with a "little" thought and inspection, you'll readily "recognize" the same R-5 and R-3 relationships between the other CAGED chords:

"E"-chord (R-5) UP and "G"-chord (R-3) DOWN...

"A"-chord (R-5) UP and "C"-chord (R-3) DOWN, etc.

...now, repeat the above exercise on the E6-string, but this time, start each chord on the 3rd-degree note, and you'll "see" that the "C"-chord and the "D"-chord are relatated (duh!)...with the D-chord (3-5) going DOWN and the C-chord (3-R) going UP...now, do the same on the A5-string!

...and, THAT, my friends, is why I don't endorse/teach the CAGED system! It's ALL about inversions...