Marshall 1974X vs 2061X

[trisonic]

Someone (who shall be nameless) asked me today - What is the difference, tonally, between the 18 watt and the 20 watt Marshall?
Buggered if I know - it's been decades since I played an 18 watter and don't ever recall playing the 20 watter.

I know what the physical differences are but what are the differences in tone between them?

And another thing can anyone find these amps on the Marshall website??

Thanks,

Best, Pete.

[Hoady Snitch]

Another forum has a sound bite-demo of the two of them at a
recent namm event,.....the 2061 is more aggressive in that it has
the ss rectifier as oposed to the 1974x tube rectif.
e mail me or pm and I'll give ya the site details.
I'm planing on getting the 2061 1st, (early spring)
and using it A/B with my 1970 deluxe reverb.
to cover some tonal ground.
But 1st I gotta get an attenuator to calm down my mars 1972 50w 1986b that just got home from the shop.(suggestions?)
GONNA be a busy year.:)

[57special]

I know nothing about the RI's, but the original 18 watters have more gain, more 'about to explode' great old marshall tone. The 20 watter just sounded lame next to it, though it might be better for country. The trem on the 18 watter can be a pain.
Put another way, the 18 watter sustains, howls and responds like crazy, while the 20 watter sounds shrill and two dimesnional. Before i got an 18 watter to compare with the 20 watter, i thought it was a good amp.
I'm a bit confused about how close to the originals the RI's are, as i'm hearing that the 20 watter rocks a bit harder than the 18, which is't my experience at all.

[mrmojorisin]

You're right on the money man.

The original 18 was much more lively than the original 20.

But in these new re-issues the 20 has a bit more gain and volume than the 18. Nonetheless, when I heard these demo'ed at NAMM I preferred (surprise, surprise) the 18. It really sounded magical. I think the Celestion custom shop re-issue speakers had a bit to do with this...re-issue of teh original 20 watter.

Now, at NAMM they were running the 20 watt head through a 2x12 with the Celestion Custom shop re-issues of the 55 hz G12H-30. Maybe this explains why the 20 was sounding more agressive than the 18?


Carl

[AndreasG]

Both are great amps, and if you love both, you might consider the Cornell Plexi18/20, a head that comines both amps (tube and ss rectifier), and even goes down to 5 Watt. Is considered to be one of the best Marshall clones out there. Plus, Cornell builds amps for Eric Clapton....

As far as Attenuator for a 72 50 Watter, go with a Hotplate. I use mine with a 73 50 Watter, and it really is a great improvement over using multiple overdrives/dist. boxes.

[tonedaddy]

Originally posted by Hoady Snitch
Another forum has a sound bite-demo of the two of them at a
recent namm event,.....the 2061 is more aggressive in that it has
the ss rectifier as oposed to the 1974x tube rectif.
e mail me or pm and I'll give ya the site details.Hoady,
Please enable emails and PM in your profile. No one can email or PM you until you:

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Or just email me the link to the forum where the clips are located and I'll post it.

Thanks!

[loverocker]

I'm also a bit confused about the reviews on the Reissues saying the 20Wer was more aggressive.

I have a '71 20Wer and a buddy recently brought over his original 20W plexi and his own 18W clone. Although there's a similar amount of gain in them, the 18Wer's tone just had more body and was a lot more rewarding to play (this was with no pedals - just a LPalike and amp).

Of course, there are many variables that could account for the difference, but it was immediately very clear to both of us. So I'm left wondering about those magazine reviews... :confused:

[trisonic]

Yeah, I know all about Mr. Cornell!

I'm trying to find out in answer to a question what the difference tonally is between the 1974 vs 2061.

It seems to be confusing right now!

Best, Pete.

[Kiwi]

Pete,

It seems to be a little hard to get folks' attention today, with the Dr Z thread now going to 10 or 11 pages. In answer to your question:

I've played both the 74x and the 61x reissues. I used to own an old 20-watter.

Tone differences between the RIs:

- The 74x has a complex, swirling chime to it. I kept thinking, Vox. With the tremelo going, I thought "small Fender." Won't stay clean for long with humbuckers ... but that's OK too!

- my original review is posted below.

- the 61x is a more straight-ahead, grunting rock amp. Old-skool Marshall roar, but at sane volumes. Less subtlety, more direct, fewer overtones, less air.

- I played the 61x through its matching new/RI 2x12 cab and thought, Yeah, that's it. That's the package. This is my old '73 Lead and Bass 20, all right, with a good crunch at decent volume levels.

Both are very sensible and practical amps, albeit expensive. You get the goodies at lower volumes.

Kiwi

~~~ my original 18w RI review from 2004 ~~~~~~

Went over to a friend's house last night to welcome the arrival of his new baby, the handwired reissue 18 watter from Marshall. His is serial number 01 of only 40 made for GC.

It's physically quite handsome, all clean and neat, ruler-straight piping, with attention paid to cabinet finishing. I sometimes forget what an elegant design those old Marshall combos had. This one's a 1x12 combo, with (I believe) a Celestion G12M in it.

I used to own a vintage 1973 Lead & Bass 20, which is also being reissued. I'd heard the 18-watters were quite different sounding, though, and that's correct.

The 18w is surprisingly chimey and sweet, more toward the Vox sound. With the tremolo going, it gives the impression of a baby Fender (probably because the sound of a tremolo amp just automatically conjures an image of old Fenders for me!) - yes, it's complex and swirly.

The 18w doesn't stay clean for long, and with low-output humbuckers (PRS Hollowbody II) it reached a sweet growl fairly fast. It reproduced the PRS ring and zing, and (this is important to me) I heard the air in the guitar's tone. That's a good amp, in my book.

The old L&B 20 was voiced as a baby Plexi, old skool Marshall sound, driven by a SS rectifier and not terribly complex in tone, but it sure sounded like rock. Or rawk, or raucous. It didn't reproduce the air in the HB-II's tone nearly as well as, say, a Carmen Ghia does.

This 18w struck me as more soft and Vox-y, with an interesting jangle factor I wasn't expecting. I'm a sucka-fool for jangle. We were not able to dime it (it was getting late).

The 18w is not as powerful or as steely/brilliant as a Bad Cat Cub, another contender in the 1x12, 2xEL84 arena. We played that one last night, too. The Bad Cat takes the jangle thing way further than the 18watter, and you think, 'that Cub is the Matchless voicing, taken a step further.' Very modern-sounding.

The 18w has its own thing going on. It's still on the Marshall side, still very 1960s.

[trisonic]

Thanks, Kiwi! I'll pass your answer along....

I don't think I ever played one of the 20 Watters originally; they sound very interesting - just straight forward, no tremelo?

Best, Pete.

[Kiwi]

Originally posted by trisonic
I don't think I ever played one of the 20 Watters originally; they sound very interesting - just straight forward, no tremelo?

Best, Pete.

Pretty much. The 20w has a SS rectifier, no trem circuit. A quicker attack than the 18w RI I played.

I think they're both good amps, it just depends on what you want. Conventional Internet Wisdom (CIW) is that the 20w is a kludge compared to the 18w.

I'd modify that to say that one of them went to charm school and one of them didn't.

It's great to have choice between an amp you can take home to meet Mama (and later go get a little dirty with), and ... an amp to just go play rock and blues with. Depends on your needs and purposes.

Kiwi

[Bigtone]

Kiwi is quite correct, I have an original 70 Lead 20, If you jump the channels and Dime everything
its a very Classic Marshall Voice, less gain than the 50 Watters,and Less Chime and Sparkle than the 18 Watters, Which Also have more Gain,
The cool thing IMHO about the 20 Watter is its
very round sounding, very Warm, ZERO Shrillness,
Mine likes strong Single Coils, or weak Humbuckers, and doesn't like alot of help from PU's in the Midrange department, It takes boosts really well and stays tight with the pedal in front, even with the pedal giving it alot of gain,
Lots of thick mids, Bigtone

[trisonic]

The 20 sounds even better!
Thanks for the posts guys. Are the new ones strictly to order do you know?

Best, Pete.

[Kiwi]

Originally posted by trisonic
Are the new ones strictly to order do you know?


Not quite sure what your phrase means. Translation from the English, please?

:p

[trisonic]

To Kiwi or American?

Do stores actually stock 'em?

Best, Pete.

[Kiwi]

Originally posted by trisonic
To Kiwi or American?

Do stores actually stock 'em?

Best, Pete.

Yeah, sure, you bet, dude! Guitar Center's got 'em or can git 'em. A local independent store here had the 20w and that really great new 2x12. Sounded WAY fat and huge!

'Ell yeah, mate, you moight 'ave to look a bit, but that Guitah Cinner's apt to have 'em. Local music stockists 'round ere 'ad the twenny, and that 2x12, sounded like two axe handles across the acre.

[Hoady Snitch]

Done Tonedaddy.:dude

[Lashing]

This is an interesting thread.

I had 2 1974x's on loan. I posted a full review on a different thread. Anyway, I'm confused. While I havent tried the 2061x in my own setting I did try one at a shop and I agree with others that the 1974x was more aggressive sounding to me.

I keep reading the 2061 is the aggressive one. However right away the 1974x just barked out gritty tone and I had to crank the 2061 to 10 and still didnt get the amount of grit the 1974 was throwing out.

The 2061 was much better jumpered in the sense that its tone was fuller but that 1974 crunch was unbeatable. The 1974 jumpered thing just plain doesnt work for some reason. Tone really doesnt change much.

However as I explained in my detailed review of the 2 1974x's I had - one of them was a dog. One was killer the other sucked. I've heard others say they found weak 1974x's as well. Watch out for quality control.

[ausguitarman]

I have both and there different beasts, but to my ears only slightly. I've have a number of friends over and their split about 50/50 in which one they like the best.

To get the best from the 2061x the matching cab is the key. I've taken it without the cab and plugged into other cabs and it just looses its magic.

There's something about the tube rectifier that I love and what it does to the feel of 1974x. It also may have something to do with the aged speaker as well.

I'm just about to buy the 1974 extension cab and try it with the 2061x. I have a feeling it going to be a great mix.

I've probably been no help but I love both of the just the same.

[teddy boy]

Yep,

I too am a really pleased 1974X owner. Still waiting for my first transformer to blow!!

The am sounds terrific with my R8 and my strat sounds really sensible with it too. The amp has so much character that it balances out a vintage style strat really nicely, i.e. swapping from neck to bridge pickup doesn't mean you have to twiddle around with the amp controls too. It's spot on, all the time. And B.T.W. that Celestion is really sweet.

Great amp! I really have to look for a replacement O.T. though just in case this one blows!

[trisonic]

I can't even remember starting this thread.........Wha???

Best, Pete.

[Kiwi]

I can't even remember starting this thread.........Wha???

Best, Pete.

You seem nice... Who are you, again?

= K

[trisonic]

You seem nice... Who are you, again?

= K

I think I'm having personality issues - or I've slipped from one 'brane to another.............................(see string theory).

Best, Pete.

[rastaman]

IMO the 2061X wins hands down. They are 2 different beasts. I have NEVER heard a shrill note come out of mine- For the guy who mentioned shrill, I think you need to take yours back..... My 2061X roars a thick syrupy Marshall grind. I have an 18 watt that just can't touch my 2061X FWIW.

[sdgvintage]

That 1974x ez81 tube rect seems a little weak compared to a gz34 or a SS. I bet if you punched out the hole and put in an octal socket and wired it up for a GZ34 that the 1974x would be closer to the 2061x.

[rastaman]

That 1974x ez81 tube rect seems a little weak compared to a gz34 or a SS. I bet if you punched out the hole and put in an octal socket and wired it up for a GZ34 that the 1974x would be closer to the 2061x.

I've been thinking about getting a SS rectifier (made in a tube socket, a local tech here made Greg one) and putting a switch in to give the amp the option of SS or tube rectifier. When I asked about any resistor (bias) values needing attention, he suggested installing a pot/changing it from cathode bias, and making it so I could bias the amp. What do you think Steve?

[Red Planet]

Rastaman

Well its kind of hard to say. There certainly is a difference between your 18 watter and your 20 watter.

The 20 watter does sound good. It does the Crunch thing really well. Its a little dark for my tastes but thats me and you. To me the 20 watter dosnt sing like the 18 watter does without a pedal. The 20 watter Clean sound dosnt have a chime to it.

The 18 watter when I heard it with my Tele Clean I was floored. It had the clean sound I yearn for. No it dosnt have the thump that the 20 watter has but that is the difference between an open back combo and a head and closed back cab. I rember you telling me your 18 watter dont sound good through your closed back cab but some amps dont sound good with some cabs and speakers.

I should refer you back to when I had three Marshall Stacks. I had one Marshall 4x12 1960A W/ G75T's, one Marshal 4x12 w/ V30's, and the Bogner Large 2x12. For Amps I had a TSL 100 Head, a 79 JMP 50 watt 2204 Head, and a 1987 Plexi reissue 50 watt Head.

The TSL sounded like ass through anything but the Bogner but the Plexi and JMP sounded good through any of the cabs. Was there something wrong with the TSL? Nope it was a good Amp. If I wasnt such a Hand Wired Amp snob I'd still have one.

Anyway your SDG Vintage 18 watter sounds way better than the three Marsahall 1974x's that I've played. It is more to my liking than your 20 watter but as I said thats me and you. I do think the 20 watter sounds good though. I like the idea of GZ34 rectifier that would be cool as shiyte. Plus you could use a Solid state GZ34 Plug in also and an adapter to put back in a 6CA4 if you want. No need for a switch but it would be cool to have it fixed Bias with a Pot then just plop any rectifier you want in and set the Bias accordingly though you might not get by with a 5U4 rectifier.

Back to the topic.

I would suggest trying them both out.

[rastaman]

I totally agree with you Greg. :AOK


I'm going to play the 2061X through the Heritage when I get home from Augusta.

I'd like to hear Steve's thoughts on the SS fixed 18watt.

[Red Planet]

I know from my experience with my HW 4X12 Cab I had (the one I sold) that those freakin G12H30's have this unruly high mid knotch to em that will go away in time but has prodded me to start using the Eminence Wizard instead of the H's. The Wizard has everything I like about the H's, handles 75 watts (instead of 30), and has none of the things I dont like about the H's.

The Wizard being a heavier duty speaker I suspect will take a lot longer to break in. Which is a good thing because I like the way they sound out of the Box so when mine gets broken in good in a few years I can just get a new one. :BEER

[rastaman]

You be crazy :crazy !:crazyguy

[sdgvintage]

You can do SS or tube rect with out changing the cathode bias.
It will fluctuate somewhat going into SS mode vs tube due to the lack of voltage drop. I would estimate that would put the bias up about 3-5ma from where it is now. Can't remember off the top of my head what the bias was on yours, but normally I always have to install a larger than original spec bias resistor on cathode bias amps like 18watts and tweeds to get the bias in range with what the tubes should be.

I still think that a GZ34 would be the way to go.
It really wouldn't be that difficult to to make that mod.
You could go from 5y3 to gz34 easily enough. 5y3 would probably be similar to what you have now with the ez81.

[Red Planet]

Food for thought. To tell you the freakin truth I'd like to hear an 18 watter with a big ol GZ34 in it. Man what juice would be flowing then. Stand back and let the sparks fly. I coulda had a V8. :jo Why didnt I think of that?

Talking about a Muscular 18 watter and he has a good point and to settle it back down just stick a 5Y3 in there.



Anyway Steve comes up with some twisted gnarly stuuf. Thats why I like him. I'll send him an email stating well how bout an amp that does XYZ and he sends me a reply back that says well XYZ sounds cool but what about XYZABCBR549?

[rastaman]

Steve's the man. I think I should pursue that mod :dude

Just rolled in from out of town again, going down to try the 20w into the G12 Heritage..........

[Red Planet]

Let me know what it sounds like. As usuall I'm fealing extra festive.

But like I said I have Coined it.

SDG Vintage Custom Ultraflex 45

[rastaman]

You did coin it.

I should have done what YOU suggested from the start :confused: :confused: :confused: :crazy :messedup ??

Remember????????????????


The 20w into the open back Heritage sounds freaking amazing. So, the SDG into a G12H AB'd with the 20w -> HP -> into an open back G12H (16ohm- because of HP) would have been the shyite.:RoCkIn :RoCkIn Will be the shyite.

All along I've been trying to AB an 18w, tube rectifier, open back combo, with a 20 SS rectifier, into a closed back 4/10. The difference was night and day........ And I was in love with night? I thought I tried this when you brought that adapter over? The 18w and 20w in combos stacked would rule my world!!!!!!!!! I need to sell the 4/12 darnit!!!!!!!


Grasshopper will learn one day...........

[Red Planet]

And its just a cab away.

[SpanishCastle]

the 1974X comes with an aged 20 watt G12M 75 HZ
while the 2061 comes with two 30 watt g12H30 not the custom shop 55hz but the 75hz standard series. that doesn't mean a bad thing at all.

the speakers will make the 2061 agressive :) to my ears, which i personally like.
i think of the 2061 more like a rock n roll amp, and the 1974X for a bluesy feel.

it's all up to you what you prefer. i got a 1974X. while i think the sound is ok, i just prefer a 100watter. i bought the 18watter for home use, but it's still loud... and i don't like attenuating to -16db or some to make it usable at home :).

[cheesey]

what tubes are you using in your 1974x's?
i have jj el 84's , but want to try the nos teslas.
will have to check the ecc83's and ez 81 not sure what the original owner put in . its a gds with red tolex . nice amp.

[rastaman]

I started w/ JJ's. Red Planet gave me some RCA's to darken it up and that's what I've got in there now. I've been wanting to put some NOS Teslas in there.... I have those in the 2061X and :RoCkIn :RoCkIn :RoCkIn The tone gods are blessing me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The NOS Teslas IMO are the Shiznitt!

[go7]

Try an 18 watter that has the original Watkins Dominator circuit. I have a clone. I can only descibe it as a snarling little beast. Sometimes so good it gives me goosebumps. And I have some nice amps. Check out www.18watt.com (http://www.18watt.com). There is everything you ever wanted to know and more .

[Lashing]

That 1974x ez81 tube rect seems a little weak compared to a gz34 or a SS. I bet if you punched out the hole and put in an octal socket and wired it up for a GZ34 that the 1974x would be closer to the 2061x.

Why the heck would anyone spend all the money to get a reissue then do that?

Thats as crazy as relabeling relabeled speakers.

[rastaman]

Why the heck would anyone spend all the money to get a reissue then do that?

Thats as crazy as relabeling relabeled speakers.


HE'S talking about the 18w HE built me.

[trisonic]

Wow.
I don't remember starting this thread!

It's the 'staters......

Best, Pete.