I need a new digital recorder??!?!?!!

[papersoul]

Hey all,
I currently have a Zoom MRS 806 and some nice studio monitors. I use external amp modelling or run my tube amps direct, including bass. For this reason ,I get little use of onboard amp simulations. Maybe effects for the tracks but even then I record a lot of my own higher end effects.

I am debating if I need a onboard drum machine? I was thinking I could just get the best 16 or 24 track mixer/recorder I can find reasonably priced and an external drum machine like the Boss Dr. Rhythm. Is this the better route than an all in one unit?

I was looking at the Zoon MRS 1608, HD16, Tascam 2488, Yamaha AW1600, Korg D3200.

I do not want to use a computer. I want something portable and mostly I like thinkgs that are hands on and sitting right in front of me. I don't want to have to get caught up in software, etc. I enjoy the all in one recorders, etc.

Our drummer said he is totally fine with either recording electronic drums or even using a built in drum machine like on the Zoom where he can play in the beats or the Dr. Rhythm.

Can I get some opinions???? For quality and ease of use I am wondering if the Yamaha AW1600 and a Dr. Rhythm machine is the way to go.
Thanks!

[papersoul]

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[papersoul]

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[Craig Gates]

I don't have experience with the recorders you're asking about, but my situation is very similar to yours - I like having an actual machine with knobs, faders, etc in front of me. My mind just works better that way. Right now I'm using a TASCAM DP-01FX digital 8-track. I don't use the onboard effects; like you, I use outboard effects.

I've used the Dr. Rhythm before and it's a good machine - they're probably better now than the one I was using back in the mid-90s. I've gotta think any drum machine built in to a recorder is going to be more of an "add on" than a quality drum machine. If it was me, I'd go with a dedicated recorder and a dedicated drum machine.

I know this isn't a direct answer to your question, but reading your post, it sounds like we think the same way. Maybe this will get the conversation rolling and some others who have experience with the recorders you list above will chip in...

[papersoul]

Well I will say the built in recorders in the Zooms are damn good man. That said...they have things I don't use...effects and amp sims. So, I am thinking something like a used Yamaha AW1600 and Boss drum machine. My drummer and a studio musician friend love the Zoom HD16 so who knows!

[peridot1]

I have a yamaha aw1600 and use a alesis sr18. The yamaha is well built, sounds good and will last. Interface is a little tricky. You'll be reading the manual in the beginning. Once learned though it's a solid unit.

Use to have the tascam 2488 mkII. Now that's an easy interface. Loved the ease of use. Didn't last though. After a year features stopped working. The MKII was rumored to be buggy though. So if the Neo fixed these bugs I wouldn't mind picking up a Neo at all for the interface. Very comfortable to work with.

[rob2001]

I have a yamaha aw1600 and use a alesis sr18. The yamaha is well built, sounds good and will last. Interface is a little tricky. You'll be reading the manual in the beginning. Once learned though it's a solid unit.

Use to have the tascam 2488 mkII. Now that's an easy interface. Loved the ease of use. Didn't last though. After a year features stopped working. The MKII was rumored to be buggy though. So if the Neo fixed these bugs I wouldn't mind picking up a Neo at all for the interface. Very comfortable to work with.

+1 on the Yamaha and I think there is one in the emporium at a great price right now...not mine!

[Big_Daddy]

Hey all,
I currently have a Zoom MRS 806 and some nice studio monitors. I use external amp modelling or run my tube amps direct, including bass. For this reason ,I get little use of onboard amp simulations. Maybe effects for the tracks but even then I record a lot of my own higher end effects.

I am debating if I need a onboard drum machine? I was thinking I could just get the best 16 or 24 track mixer/recorder I can find reasonably priced and an external drum machine like the Boss Dr. Rhythm. Is this the better route than an all in one unit?

I was looking at the Zoon MRS 1608, HD16, Tascam 2488, Yamaha AW1600, Korg D3200.

I do not want to use a computer. I want something portable and mostly I like thinkgs that are hands on and sitting right in front of me. I don't want to have to get caught up in software, etc. I enjoy the all in one recorders, etc.

Our drummer said he is totally fine with either recording electronic drums or even using a built in drum machine like on the Zoom where he can play in the beats or the Dr. Rhythm.

Can I get some opinions???? For quality and ease of use I am wondering if the Yamaha AW1600 and a Dr. Rhythm machine is the way to go.
Thanks!


I have a Zoom HD8CD and really like it. It's just too much machine for me (need something more portable). So I went with the H4 and I'm selling the HD8CD. Great products.

[papersoul]

I am wondering if something like the Zoom HD16 can get as good tones as the Yamaha.

[winkofaneye]

I use a Boss DR880 drum machine along with a Boss BR1180-CD digital recorder,with a POD for guitar/bass.With patience you can get excellent results.I have even hooked up a mixing desk and recorded a whole live band through it,which if you mix correctly as you go,gives ok results too.

[Ephi82]

Tascam 2488....the original

I have had mine for at least 6 years and never a problem

Has a tone generator on board, which I use with a MIDI keyboard. Also has ability to trigger/program drum samples, which I dont us. I have Roland V Drums I like to play drums, not program them!

This is a 24 bit machine (although you can set at 16) and it sounds great. You can track up to 8 inputs at a time. It has (I believe) 16 physical faders, 4 of which can be assigned as stereo paired tracks.

The onboard effects are just ok to get you started. I didn't use anything other than a reverb and light compresssion. I have been building my outboard collection incl pre-amps, compressor, and Lexicon reverb/delay boxes etc and the TASCAM has reasonable physical in/out support of them, but for some reason, it gives you 2 effect out feeds but 0 returns? As a consequnce you have to use a channel input.

If you want to make the transition to PC based DAWS, or you want to collaborate with someone with one, you can easiliy transfer track files

[papersoul]

Yes but the Tascam 2488 is only 24 bit if you do 8 tracks!

[Ephi82]

Yes but the Tascam 2488 is only 24 bit if you do 8 tracks!

I am not sure that is true. You set the bit resolution prior to beginning a song. It doesn't change by # of tracks

[rob2001]

Yes but the Tascam 2488 is only 24 bit if you do 8 tracks!

Same with the Yamaha and it's only 16 bit if using 16 tracks, which is usually what I use. Honestly at this level, I don't even notice much difference between 16 and 24. And figure everything goes to 16 bit for a CD and will get squashed to pieces going to MP3..... I wouldn't base a purchase only on bit rate.

[Ephi82]

Same with the Yamaha and it's only 16 bit if using 16 tracks, which is usually what I use. Honestly at this level, I don't even notice much difference between 16 and 24. And figure everything goes to 16 bit for a CD and will get squashed to pieces going to MP3..... I wouldn't base a purchase only on bit rate.

I still don't agree, but what do I know? I'm an analog guy in a digital world!

What I DO KNOW is that nothing I record or listen to will ever be in a lossy format like MP3.

It is just beyond my understanding why a world that supports 24 bit recording in the home, and commercially available music distributed in DSD, SACD and DVD-A high resolution formats, is dominated by a music format (MP3) that sounds like absolute shit! Where are our ears people?

[Ephi82]

PS

I have been blown away, like a majority of the population, by the giant advance in video display that is HDTV.

Can someone explain to me why the standard in audio quality and resolution has taken a step back from CD to MP3?

Is it really the convienence of downloads and portability?

Perhaps if you could download and play DSD quality music as easily as MP3's, it wouldn't even be a question? Me thinks there is a giant commercial opportunity here. I freakin hope so!

[rob2001]

PS

I have been blown away, like a majority of the population, by the giant advance in video display that is HDTV.

Can someone explain to me why the standard in audio quality and resolution has taken a step back from CD to MP3?

Is it really the convienence of downloads and portability?

Perhaps if you could download and play DSD quality music as easily as MP3's, it wouldn't even be a question? Me thinks there is a giant commercial opportunity here. I freakin hope so!

I think it has a lot to do with what people are listening on these days. Sure there are a lot of people that still care about fidelity but more than not are listening on computers, earbuds, factory auto systems etc....Sure we can bust our asses making recordings that sound fabulous but most of it is gone based on the systems being used. Just my thoughts.

Personally I have and love my late 70's Sansui system with some JBL speakers, no surround, for music but my friends think i'm a dinosaur! Sorry guys...I like to move air!

[papersoul]

I am not sure that is true. You set the bit resolution prior to beginning a song. It doesn't change by # of tracks

Thanks man! So maybe the Tascam will be better than the Zoom HD16 for me. Thanks!

Lots of guys like em.

[peridot1]

This won't help much but..

I never used the 24 bit feature, but the Yamaha manual does say if you go 24 bit it will become an 8 track recorder. When I had the Tascam 2488mkII there was nothing in the manual I could find that says going 24 bit will decrease tracks. But like I said I never tried it.

[rob2001]

This won't help much but..

I never used the 24 bit feature, but the Yamaha manual does say if you go 24 bit it will become an 8 track recorder.

Right. Thats what I tried to say but it may have been confusing the way I said it. But if 24 bit and more tracks are a necessity, you can bounce stuff down using only 8 tracks and maintain 24 bit.

[Ephi82]

I think it has a lot to do with what people are listening on these days. Sure there are a lot of people that still care about fidelity but more than not are listening on computers, earbuds, factory auto systems etc....Sure we can bust our asses making recordings that sound fabulous but most of it is gone based on the systems being used. Just my thoughts.

Personally I have and love my late 70's Sansui system with some JBL speakers, no surround, for music but my friends think i'm a dinosaur! Sorry guys...I like to move air!


Sansui! Now that is a blast from the past! Rock on!

[scmavl]

I've been using the Tascam DP-01FX for a couple of years now, great little unit. I recently got a Mac, Firestudio interface, and Logic Studio but it was just too much for me. However, I am a drummer as well, and I wanted more control over individual drum mixes than my 2-input DP-01 provided. So I just ordered a Tascam 2488 NEO. And FYI, Musicians Friend has the 2488NEO for $649 with a free MXL condenser mic (I owned one before, it's cheap & rather noisy but does a good vintage vocal sound ) and a mail in coupon for a free Tascam GT-R1 (guitar trainer & recorder) which is $299 new! Not a bad deal!

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Tascam-2488neo-24Track-Digital-Recording-Workstation?sku=500689

[papersoul]

Do any of the Tascams have built in drum machines? I did some research and it does make a difference to have 24 bit recording so I might get the Tascam.

[neastguy]

i have a korg d1600 which is great and easy to use.. only thing that sucks is that it doesnt have a usb connection.. but I believe the d32 does

[Timinator]

+ 1 on the Zoom HD16. Love mine.

[DanR]

i have a korg d1600 which is great and easy to use.. only thing that sucks is that it doesnt have a usb connection.. but I believe the d32 does

I also have the D1600, which I really like. The Mk II version of the D1600 does have USB as far as I know, although, alas, mine is not that version.

[buddaman71]

I love my d3200. It's now discontinued, but absolutely amazing considering I paid under a grand for it brand new.
I SO wish it had a VGA out, but it's a fantastic recorder.

The Tascam 788 Neo is pretty hard to beat for a plug and play recorder with a built in CDR.
I have used it and owned the Zoom 1608 and I think the Tascam sounds better than the Zoom.

[Ephi82]

Do any of the Tascams have built in drum machines? I did some research and it does make a difference to have 24 bit recording so I might get the Tascam.
the original does i dont know about Mk II and NEO

[jpage]

The new Sony PCM-M10 seems to be getting rave reviews from the taping community for it's size, ease of use, battery life, price to performance ratio, features and internal mics. After researching for several weeks, I ordered one yesterday. I'll report back.

[neastguy]

I also have the D1600, which I really like. The Mk II version of the D1600 does have USB as far as I know, although, alas, mine is not that version.

I use the spdif out on mine to go directly into the pc.. its a pain.. I just got a new pc that is a small form a factor.. and the spdif card in my old pc won't fit into the new one... arrrggghh.. now I have to keep two pc's down in my so called studio.. :)

[bsuite]

This won't help much but..

I never used the 24 bit feature, but the Yamaha manual does say if you go 24 bit it will become an 8 track recorder. When I had the Tascam 2488mkII there was nothing in the manual I could find that says going 24 bit will decrease tracks. But like I said I never tried it.

IIRC, on my VS2000 if you choose 24 bit then channels 12-16 are just grayed out. You can't select (or use) them but, you can use "virtual tracks" to bounce to. It only has 8 physical input channels.
9 & 10 become your master stereo mix channels instead of 15 & 16.

[papersoul]

On the Tascam 2488 Neo. I am getting conflicting reports on sound quality. some say it makes a difference having 24 bit, others say no! I am starting to think if the Neo is intuitive and easy to use like the Zoom, I might get this instead and just get an external drum machine aor save for electric drums.

[papersoul]

With the Zoom HD 16 you can program drum patterns and tempos to change with parts of the song. This makes programming easy and fast. How do you do this with the Tascam 2488 and an external drum machine???

Also, how are the effects like Reverb, etc on the Tascam?

[sublimeaudio]

I just bought a Tascam 2488 Neo and an Alesis SR-18 drum machine. I was looking for a cheap and easy to use setup, and these two together only cost me $800.

I can't see anything stating that there is a limit on how many tracks you can have in a 24 bit song on the Tascam. The only difference is that it will take up more disk space.

The selection of digital multitracks is not very large these days as most people are using computers. I've had computer recording setups in the past but just wanted to keep things really simple right now. The other multi-tracks that I considered were the Korg D3200 and the Korg D888, but the D3200 was double the cost of the Tascam and the D888 was lacking in some features that I wanted. The D3200 does have drums built in, which is nice - just not worth the price difference for me.

I picked the Alesis for my drum machine because it was inexpensive and has all of the basic features I was looking for. It seems to be made well. The Boss DR-880 would be nice, but it's over double the cost.

Haven't had much time to play with things yet, but the 2488 is easier to use than I thought it would be and everything is laid out well.

[papersoul]

I just bought a Tascam 2488 Neo and an Alesis SR-18 drum machine. I was looking for a cheap and easy to use setup, and these two together only cost me $800.

I can't see anything stating that there is a limit on how many tracks you can have in a 24 bit song on the Tascam. The only difference is that it will take up more disk space.

The selection of digital multitracks is not very large these days as most people are using computers. I've had computer recording setups in the past but just wanted to keep things really simple right now. The other multi-tracks that I considered were the Korg D3200 and the Korg D888, but the D3200 was double the cost of the Tascam and the D888 was lacking in some features that I wanted. The D3200 does have drums built in, which is nice - just not worth the price difference for me.

I picked the Alesis for my drum machine because it was inexpensive and has all of the basic features I was looking for. It seems to be made well. The Boss DR-880 would be nice, but it's over double the cost.

Haven't had much time to play with things yet, but the 2488 is easier to use than I thought it would be and everything is laid out well.

You sound like me, I like the simplicity and ease of a hands on manual, dedicated recorder. Something about having to use software, plug ins, a mouse, keyboard, dealing with latency, memory issues, would drive me nuts about home recording in that manner. Seems much more expensive and certainly not portable if I want to record real drums. I guess a laptop would help that situation. Maybe I will stick with my Zoom MRS 1608 for the time being. I do like with a PC, it is very easy to transfer files, re amps, wipe tracks, save data, etc. It just seems like everything else would be a nightmare. Not sure how so many people are able to deal with it.

I also hate programming anything and that is something that bothers me about using a drum machine. I would rather always use the real instrument when it comes to drums, or at the very least, an electronic kit. Problem is, our drummer refuses to use anything for a final recording other than his acoustic drum set and they can be a nightmare to record without the right skill and time invested.

[robare99]

I still don't agree, but what do I know? I'm an analog guy in a digital world!

What I DO KNOW is that nothing I record or listen to will ever be in a lossy format like MP3.

It is just beyond my understanding why a world that supports 24 bit recording in the home, and commercially available music distributed in DSD, SACD and DVD-A high resolution formats, is dominated by a music format (MP3) that sounds like absolute shit! Where are our ears people?

I hope that you are recording on 2" tape, and dumping down to vinyl. Everyone knows the fidelity on CD's are woefully lacking.

[papersoul]

I hope that you are recording on 2" tape, and dumping down to vinyl. Everyone knows the fidelity on CD's are woefully lacking.

Why do you say that about robare99? What did he say to make you say that?

On a side note, I do know a lot of analog guys who prefer CD to vinyl. I think for vinyl to get good bass response, the grooves need to be really wide....is it possible to get that big bass response on vinyl?

[Flogger59]

You sound like me, I like the simplicity and ease of a hands on manual, dedicated recorder. Something about having to use software, plug ins, a mouse, keyboard, dealing with latency, memory issues, would drive me nuts about home recording in that manner. Seems much more expensive and certainly not portable if I want to record real drums. I guess a laptop would help that situation. Maybe I will stick with my Zoom MRS 1608 for the time being. I do like with a PC, it is very easy to transfer files, re amps, wipe tracks, save data, etc. It just seems like everything else would be a nightmare. Not sure how so many people are able to deal with it.

I also hate programming anything and that is something that bothers me about using a drum machine. I would rather always use the real instrument when it comes to drums, or at the very least, an electronic kit. Problem is, our drummer refuses to use anything for a final recording other than his acoustic drum set and they can be a nightmare to record without the right skill and time invested.

Look at the Zoom R24 (I own a MRS1608CD, and I'm looking). Largely the same type of interface as the MRS, but records in .wav as a native format, in 24 bit. The media is an SD card, so file dumps to a computer is a breeze. It still records 8 tracks at once for a total of 24. For less than $500 it's a deal.

[papersoul]

Look at the Zoom R24 (I own a MRS1608CD, and I'm looking). Largely the same type of interface as the MRS, but records in .wav as a native format, in 24 bit. The media is an SD card, so file dumps to a computer is a breeze. It still records 8 tracks at once for a total of 24. For less than $500 it's a deal.

The R24 gets some really bad reviews. I am thinking of keeping my MRS1608 till I decide to either go the Tascam 2488Neo route or the laptop and software route(yuk)

[335guy]

IMHO, for portability, you cannot beat the Tascam 2488 ( Neo or MK11 ). With a laptop, you need a mixer or at least an audio interface with 8 inputs to even begin to compete with the 2488. I'd say the Korg was better when available but cost double. I liked it gave you 12 tracks to record to all at once. The 2488 is eight tracks. If recording a band live, you can use a good mixer to use more mics but you would still need to mix down to 8 inputs. Ignore previous discussions about 24 vs 16 bit limiting track amounts. Using the 2488, you have 80 GB of storage ( 72 in reality, as 8 GB are used for a FAT partition ) It's more than enough to record hours of 24 bit data. I find the 2488 easy to use, yet you can go deep into it and it has many cool editing features. It does take awhile to get a full grasp on all that it can do. Some of the things I love most is NO dropouts, latency, freeze-ups, and other BS that can come with computers. I just plug in mics, turn it on, adjust a few settings and I'm ready to record. At about $600.00, it beats the laptop and audio interface option to death. And all the files/tracks can be transferred to a computer for mixing or mastering if you prefer that. But you don't have to as the 2488 can mix and master just fine. I think it's the best of both. Take it where you want to record ( someone else's studio, live gig, rehearsal, wherever ), track on it, take it back home and transfer the files for mixing, processing and mastering. I've had my 2488 MK11 for yrs now and have had no problems. The sound is very clear, crisp and punchy. And to my ears, sounds better than many recording some friends have had done at "pro" studios

[papersoul]

IMHO, for portability, you cannot beat the Tascam 2488 ( Neo or MK11 ). With a laptop, you need a mixer or at least an audio interface with 8 inputs to even begin to compete with the 2488. I'd say the Korg was better when available but cost double. I liked it gave you 12 tracks to record to all at once. The 2488 is eight tracks. If recording a band live, you can use a good mixer to use more mics but you would still need to mix down to 8 inputs. Ignore previous discussions about 24 vs 16 bit limiting track amounts. Using the 2488, you have 80 GB of storage ( 72 in reality, as 8 GB are used for a FAT partition ) It's more than enough to record hours of 24 bit data. I find the 2488 easy to use, yet you can go deep into it and it has many cool editing features. It does take awhile to get a full grasp on all that it can do. Some of the things I love most is NO dropouts, latency, freeze-ups, and other BS that can come with computers. I just plug in mics, turn it on, adjust a few settings and I'm ready to record. At about $600.00, it beats the laptop and audio interface option to death. And all the files/tracks can be transferred to a computer for mixing or mastering if you prefer that. But you don't have to as the 2488 can mix and master just fine. I think it's the best of both. Take it where you want to record ( someone else's studio, live gig, rehearsal, wherever ), track on it, take it back home and transfer the files for mixing, processing and mastering. I've had my 2488 MK11 for yrs now and have had no problems. The sound is very clear, crisp and punchy. And to my ears, sounds better than many recording some friends have had done at "pro" studios

I agree with you. A friend of mine uses one for his funk band and has also recorded comercials on his and loves it. I might end up selling my MRS 1608 and in a few months look at the 2488Neo and call it a day. Does it have a click track? I would be recording real drums to.

What is the total number of mono tracks it can record before needing to bounce?

[franksguitar]

I also have the D1600, which I really like. The Mk II version of the D1600 does have USB as far as I know, although, alas, mine is not that version.
I have the same original;silver unit and love using it and also have a couple drives. and internal CD I added (mine did not originally come with one) However there maybe an SCSI to USB adaptor I'm trying to find to see if I can interface into the computer. I use an optical out for recording on an external Marantz CD burner

I did find listing for SCSI to USB and cost about $61 online

[neastguy]

I have the same original;silver unit and love using it and also have a couple drives. and internal CD I added (mine did not originally come with one) However there maybe an SCSI to USB adaptor I'm trying to find to see if I can interface into the computer. I use an optical out for recording on an external Marantz CD burner

I did find listing for SCSI to USB and cost about $61 online


wow, if you find that let me know :)

[papersoul]

IMHO, for portability, you cannot beat the Tascam 2488 ( Neo or MK11 ). With a laptop, you need a mixer or at least an audio interface with 8 inputs to even begin to compete with the 2488. I'd say the Korg was better when available but cost double. I liked it gave you 12 tracks to record to all at once. The 2488 is eight tracks. If recording a band live, you can use a good mixer to use more mics but you would still need to mix down to 8 inputs. Ignore previous discussions about 24 vs 16 bit limiting track amounts. Using the 2488, you have 80 GB of storage ( 72 in reality, as 8 GB are used for a FAT partition ) It's more than enough to record hours of 24 bit data. I find the 2488 easy to use, yet you can go deep into it and it has many cool editing features. It does take awhile to get a full grasp on all that it can do. Some of the things I love most is NO dropouts, latency, freeze-ups, and other BS that can come with computers. I just plug in mics, turn it on, adjust a few settings and I'm ready to record. At about $600.00, it beats the laptop and audio interface option to death. And all the files/tracks can be transferred to a computer for mixing or mastering if you prefer that. But you don't have to as the 2488 can mix and master just fine. I think it's the best of both. Take it where you want to record ( someone else's studio, live gig, rehearsal, wherever ), track on it, take it back home and transfer the files for mixing, processing and mastering. I've had my 2488 MK11 for yrs now and have had no problems. The sound is very clear, crisp and punchy. And to my ears, sounds better than many recording some friends have had done at "pro" studios

How many mono tracks can you receord per project before you have to start bouncing tracks to record more?